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Hi Robert,
Depending on practical use cases people use binary or n-ary relations. They even use unary relations almost in all cases. Some people do not realise they use unary relations: for example, asserting an instance of a class.
The rule of thumb for using n-ary relations where n>2 is pretty trivial: use it if you cannot use just unary and/or binary ones. However, I think you know that any n-ary relation where n>2 can be represented as a combination of unary and/or binary relations.
Cheers,
Igor
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All,
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John
, entity books.example.com
and the book Lenny_the_Lion
participate. This relation has other components as well such as the purpose (birthday_gift
) and the amount ($15
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OK. I can’t resist any more. Lots of interesting stuff here, but the basic problem is that most of it conflates relationships/situations/activities with relations. They are not the same thing. Relationships (for example) are what one thing has to do with another (or itself) and the other is a mathematical structure that is often found useful in representing the first (and there are choices about how to do that).
Regards
Matthew West
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William,My position (and I sure Chris would agree) is that these are ontological distinctions.Language is polysemic and often polysemic in a systematic way. So, the termMarriage can refer both to an endurant and an event, and these two referents wouldbear some systematic relation between them.What makes a marriage (qua-endurant) relational is the fact that it isexistentially dependent on a multitude of individuals. For example, the specific marriageof John and Mary is existentially dependent on John and Mary, thus, binding them.That is why it can be the truthmaker of the relational proposition "John and Mary are married".If we look inside such an entity, this Marriage (again, qua-endurant) is a bundle of relationalqualities (tropes, modes) that are relational in nature (e.g., John's commitments and claims towards Mary,and Mary's commitments and claims towards John, etc).
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All,(without being restricted to any particular knowledge representation and reasoning language, because some are restricted only to binary, and some have design patters under that circumstance)What's your view on:- when to create a greater-than-binary relation rather than a binary relation?
Consider: you want to represent some information, statement, or knowledge, without necessarily being forced to limit to binary relations. A common example is when wanting to reference time. And 'between' is greater than binary.What are other pieces of knowledge that you'd want assert a ternary, or greater than binary relation to capture it accurately?Do you have any rules of thumb for knowing when to assert n-ary relations greater than binary?
Robert--
Dear Giancarlo,
Yes, I also looked at this some time ago:
West, Matthew Information Modelling: An analysis of the uses and meanings of associations PDT Europe 2002, PDF
And in my book
West, Matthew Developing High Quality Data Models Morgan Kaufmann 2011
Where Chapter 11 has a section on associations (aka situations).
Regards
Matthew West
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1) yes, there are multiple ontological cuts that can be made to reality. For example, a fourdimensionalist such as Chris wouldbelieve that not only John&Mary's marriage but also John and Mary are events. Someone holding my views, in contrast, willsee John, Mary, and John&Mary's Marriage as endurants to which there are events associated that will constitute John's Life, Mary's Life,John&Mary's Marriage's Life (actually, to each of these endurants, there are associated multiple possible lives but that is a different story -see ).
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You have probably noticed you got a wide variety of answers coming from
a diversity of conceptual frameworks and philosophical paradigms. It
gradually dawned on me some years ago these differences are most likely
matters of taste about which all dispute is futile, however much we go
ahead and do it anyway.
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On Wed, September 15, 2021 04:17, Giancarlo Guizzardi wrote:
> Hi William,
>
> What I meant to say with that passage is the following.
>
> 1) yes, there are multiple ontological cuts that can be made to reality.
> For example, a four-dimensionalist such as Chris would
> believe that not only John&Mary's marriage but also John and Mary are
> events. Someone holding my views, in contrast, will
> see John, Mary, and John&Mary's Marriage as endurants to which there are
> events associated that will constitute John's Life, Mary's Life,
> John&Mary's Marriage's Life (actually, to each of these endurants, there
> are associated multiple possible lives but that is a different story -
> see ).
Note that if one can reify both events and endurants, then both of you can
reify the same objects: John, Mary, John&Mary'sMarriage, John'sLife,
Mary'sLife, John&Mary'sMarriage'sLife.
One then defines these objects as instances of the same classes: Person,
Marriage, Person'sLife, Marriage'sLife. These can be agreed to be
subclasses of the same superclasses: Animal, Agreement, Animal'sLife,
Agreement'sLife. At some higher level, the ontologies would separate into
whether things are events or endurants (if desired).
> 2) What I mentioned that both Chris and I would hold is the view that
> things like John, Mary and John&Mary's Marriage are things
> that really exist in the world. So, the piece of language "John&Mary's
> Marriage" picks up something really out there. Again, for Chris,
> this would be an event; for me, this can polysemically refer to both the
> endurant binding them and one of its possible lives (an event).
This is no problem. It does not have to force itself at the level of the
individual or the immediate classes that each individual is an instance
of.
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On Tue, September 14, 2021 16:38, William Frank wrote:
> Thanks, Giancarlo
>
> I found this very helpful:
>
>> Now, what makes something like a marriage a true endurant is that it has
>> essence and accidents
>> (like any other endurant). John&Mary's marriage is essentially a marriage
>> but only contingently
>> a happily marriage, a marriage with full separation of assets, etc.
>> Thanks, Giancarlo
>
> And this is part of what I was trying to say:
>...
> Marriage can refer both to an endurant and an event, and these two
> referents would bear some systematic relation between them.
> ...
Events are rarely instantaneous. They normally have a starting and ending
time, and thus endure for some period of time.
For me, i normally use the word "situation" for relatively static states
of affairs, and restrict my use of the word "event" to a subclass of
"situation" in which change is important throughout its duration.
But i understand the term "event" is used above for what i would call a
"situation".
A marriage is a situation that is useful to reify, since there is a lot to
say about it. The marriage starts with a subevent called a wedding and
ends with an event such as a death or divorce.
-- doug f
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