NDP / Liberal coalition looking better than ever
su...@hate2010.games
When you think about it, we ALREADY have a coalition government of sorts going on in
Canada: Harper is not trusted by the people of Canada with a majority. The other two
major Opposition parties, excluding the Bloc, have time and again blocked or had modified,
some of Harper's more odious policies and bills - whether by votes in the House, by
private negotiation in exchange for budget support, or in the Senate. That's exactly how
a Coalition government would work: lots of input into Bills and budget policies - from
other than just one Party.
So if Canadians are using Opposition parties to keep Harper 'in check' now, why the hell
should we be afraid of the Liberals and NDP forming a coalition to keep ALL parties in
check?
_________________________________________
Other countries with Coaltion governments:
Nordic countries, Austria, Benelux countries, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Turkey,
Israel, New Zealand, Kosovo, Pakistan, Kenya, and India. Switzerland has been ruled by a
coalition of the four strongest parties in parliament from 1959 to 2008, called the "Magic
Formula."
__________________________________________
Thursday, February 4, 2010 10:40 AM
Seat projections raise possibility of Liberal-NDP coalition
A Liberal-NDP coalition government is beginning to look like a possibility, given new seat
projections from EKOS pollster Frank Graves.
In his latest model, the Liberals would win 122 seats while the New Democrats would take
31. Together, the two parties would have 153 seats - just shy of a majority government in
the 308-seat House of Commons.
The Conservatives, meanwhile, would win only 109 seats compared to the 145 seats they have
now. The Liberals currently have 77 seats.
As well, Mr. Graves's projections - based on the results of his poll of 3,406 Canadians
surveyed between Jan. 27 and Feb. 2 - gives the Bloc 45 seats, the Greens come up empty
and there is one "other" seat, that could be won by an independent in Quebec.
The idea of a coalition fits with recent Tory spin. Indeed, Conservative strategists and
officials have been talking about a new coalition forming between the Liberals and NDP as
Michael Ignatieff and Jack Layton plot a strategy to limit Prime Minister Stephen Harper's
power to prorogue.
Canadians reacted violently to the idea of a coalition government in late 2008. That
coalition would have seen the Liberals leading with the NDP being given several positions
in the cabinet. Mr. Harper prorogued Parliament then to avoid a confidence vote, and the
idea of a coalition died with the shutdown.
However, Mr. Graves says Canadians at the time were not as opposed to a Liberal/NDP
government as they were to then-Liberal leader St�phane Dion leading it. Canadians had
voted decidedly against Mr. Dion in the general election of Oct. 2008; they didn't want to
see him as prime minister two months later.
When it became possible that Mr. Dion could take office, the public reacted with outrage,
seeing a bit of "chicanery and manipulation" that was viewed as anti-democratic.
But Mr. Graves says when he went back to poll again in January of 2009, when Mr. Dion was
out as the Liberal leader, he found the public wasn't that averse to a coalition
government.
Meanwhile, his latest poll has the Liberals and Conservatives in a virtual tie for the
third consecutive week. And he believes election buzz will start to increase as the
Liberal numbers appear to be solid instead of a temporary aberration.
He says the Liberals have been rising - albeit at a "glacial pace" - as the public becomes
more comfortable with leader Michael Ignatieff. But don't get carried away, he says, as
there is no "Iggy-mania" - just a little bit of evidence Canadians are now giving the
Liberal Leader a second look.
As for Mr. Harper, Mr. Graves characterizes him as the "Swiss Army knife of government"
who does everything. The problem with being so in control, though, is that the
Conservatives then fail or win "on his fortunes." And he says these last few months have
had a "direct and corrosive impact on his reputation."
yp
> When you think about it, we ALREADY have a coalition government of sorts going on in
> Canada: Harper is not trusted by the people of Canada with a majority. The other two
> major Opposition parties, excluding the Bloc, have time and again blocked or had modified,
> some of Harper's more odious policies and bills - whether by votes in the House, by
> private negotiation in exchange for budget support, or in the Senate. That's exactly how
> a Coalition government would work: lots of input into Bills and budget policies - from
> other than just one Party.
>
> So if Canadians are using Opposition parties to keep Harper 'in check' now, why the hell
> should we be afraid of the Liberals and NDP forming a coalition to keep ALL parties in
> check?
> _________________________________________
>
> Other countries with Coaltion governments:
>
> Nordic countries, Austria, Benelux countries, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Turkey,
> Israel, New Zealand, Kosovo, Pakistan, Kenya, and India. Switzerland has been ruled by a
> coalition of the four strongest parties in parliament from 1959 to 2008, called the "Magic
> Formula."
>
> __________________________________________
>
Canada, however, it is unlikely to happen here. In the other countries
which you mention the situation is entirely different because they
each have a dozen or so parties with elected members to the
parliament. In Canada, on the other hand, we have only three
federalist parties and the NDP never even approached the number of
deputies close to the ruling position. Consequently, Canada is a two
(ruling) party system and the only way a coalition between the
Liberals and the NDP would work is if they amalgamated into a single
party, as did the Reform and the PC. This will not happen either and
so we are probably bound to continue with a minority government
directed by one of the "ruling" parties probably for some time to come.
su...@hate2010.games
> When you think about it, we ALREADY have a coalition government of sorts going on in
> Canada: Harper is not trusted by the people of Canada with a majority. The other two
> major Opposition parties, excluding the Bloc, have time and again blocked or had
> modified,
> some of Harper's more odious policies and bills - whether by votes in the House, by
> private negotiation in exchange for budget support, or in the Senate. That's exactly how
> a Coalition government would work: lots of input into Bills and budget policies - from
> other than just one Party.
>
> So if Canadians are using Opposition parties to keep Harper 'in check' now, why the hell
> should we be afraid of the Liberals and NDP forming a coalition to keep ALL parties in
> check?
> _________________________________________
>
> Other countries with Coaltion governments:
>
> Nordic countries, Austria, Benelux countries, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Turkey,
> Israel, New Zealand, Kosovo, Pakistan, Kenya, and India. Switzerland has been ruled by a
> coalition of the four strongest parties in parliament from 1959 to 2008, called the
> "Magic
> Formula."
>
> __________________________________________
"yp" <yp...@hotmail.com> wrote
I personally would have nothing against a coalition government in Canada, however, it is
unlikely to happen here. In the other countries which you mention the situation is
entirely different because they each have a dozen or so parties with elected members to
the parliament. In Canada, on the other hand, we have only three federalist parties and
the NDP never even approached the number of deputies close to the ruling position.
Consequently, Canada is a two
(ruling) party system and the only way a coalition between the Liberals and the NDP would
work is if they amalgamated into a single party, as did the Reform and the PC. This will
not happen either and so we are probably bound to continue with a minority government
directed by one of the "ruling" parties probably for some time to come.
Nope. You're wrong. Some of those countries on the list have no more, and even fewer
parties than does Canada.
And what the hell does "and the NDP never even approached the number of deputies close to
the ruling position" mean?
_______________________________
Some countries well acquainted with coalition governance
Germany: Chancellor Angela Kasner, chairwoman of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU),
heads a coalition that includes the Christian Social Union (CSU) and the Social Democratic
Party of Germany (SPD).
Ireland: Three parties form the current governing coalition -- Fianna Fail under prime
minister Brian Cowen, John Gormley's Green Party and the Progressive Democrats, led by
Ciaran Cannon.
Switzerland: A coalition of four major parties -- the Christian Democrats, the Social
Democrats, the Liberal Democrats and the Conservative Democrats -- has governed in
Switzerland since 1959.
In Australia, the conservative Liberal and National parties are united in an effectively
permanent coalition. This coalition has become so stable, at least at the federal level,
that the lower house of parliament has become a two-party house.
In the United Kingdom, coalition governments (sometimes known as national governments)
have been appointed only in times of national crisis. At the start of 2010 with a General
Election due in June amid speculation over a 'hung' parliament, interest in coalitions
formed from multi-party negotiations is intense.
New Zealand had a two-party system in place. Today, New Zealand has a genuinely
multi-party system, with eight parties currently represented in Parliament. Neither of the
two largest parties have been able to govern without support from other groups since 1996,
meaning that coalition government is required.
su...@hate2010.games
"E. Barry Bruyea" <terml...@democracy.com> wrote in message
news:vn71n5pqcdgejblnn...@4ax.com...
> A non-starter in Canada, given that the countries you have mentioned,
> in most cases, have a multiplicity of political parties. Canada has 3
> primary federal parties, the NDP never having reached anything close
> to a ruling or coalition majority leaves us with a two party system.
<su...@hate2010.games> wrote:
Are you copying someone else's posts, or are you posting under two different names? Here
was my response to your hotmail account posting:
__________________________
yp
> On Feb 8, 3:50 pm, <s...@hate2010.games> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > When you think about it, we ALREADY have a coalition government of sorts going on in
> > Canada: Harper is not trusted by the people of Canada with a majority. The other two
> > major Opposition parties, excluding the Bloc, have time and again blocked or had
> > modified,
> > some of Harper's more odious policies and bills - whether by votes in the House, by
> > private negotiation in exchange for budget support, or in the Senate. That's exactly how
> > a Coalition government would work: lots of input into Bills and budget policies - from
> > other than just one Party.
>
> > So if Canadians are using Opposition parties to keep Harper 'in check' now, why the hell
> > should we be afraid of the Liberals and NDP forming a coalition to keep ALL parties in
> > check?
> > _________________________________________
>
> > Other countries with Coaltion governments:
>
> > Nordic countries, Austria, Benelux countries, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Turkey,
> > Israel, New Zealand, Kosovo, Pakistan, Kenya, and India. Switzerland has been ruled by a
> > coalition of the four strongest parties in parliament from 1959 to 2008, called the
> > "Magic
> > Formula."
>
> > __________________________________________
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Before you start bragging about your knowledge of the political
parties in other countries, check the Google.
Germany has 6 parties represented in parliament
Ireland has 7 parties
Switzerland 19 parties
Australia 5 parties
UK has 169 parties in total with 10 parties that have elected
deputies, although the Brits mostly vote for either Labour or the
Conservative Party
New Zealand has 7 parties
Canada has 3 federalist parties and a separatist Bloc Quebecois that I
don't think you would want in your coalition.
My conclusion stands.
Robert MacKenzie
<su...@hate2010.games> wrote in message
news:tO_bn.69529$RS6....@newsfe15.iad...
>
> When you think about it, we ALREADY have a coalition government of sorts
> going on in
> Canada: Harper is not trusted by the people of Canada with a majority.
> The other two
> major Opposition parties, excluding the Bloc, have time and again blocked
> or had modified,
> some of Harper's more odious policies and bills - whether by votes in the
> House, by
> private negotiation in exchange for budget support, or in the Senate.
> That's exactly how
> a Coalition government would work: lots of input into Bills and budget
> policies - from
> other than just one Party.
>
> So if Canadians are using Opposition parties to keep Harper 'in check'
> now, why the hell
> should we be afraid of the Liberals and NDP forming a coalition to keep
> ALL parties in
> check?
Wouldn't happen. The NDP and Liberals have equally big and insane egos and
they would clash.
Coalitions only work if all parties work together, and you would never see
it with those two.
First there would have to be a one party only in all ridings - who gets to
present the Coalition candidate in one riding and who gets to
do that in another.
It diminishes the selective choices of the people to choose who they want.
and who exactly decides which party MP gets what Cabinet post? The NDp would
not nessesarily end up with Social Services or
Labour and could end up with Small Business and Foriegn Affairs.
and about that Budget - how would that work? The NDP does not like
favourable conditions to business, but the Liberals do.
Canuck57
> When you think about it, we ALREADY have a coalition government of sorts going on in
> Canada: Harper is not trusted by the people of Canada with a majority. The other two
> major Opposition parties, excluding the Bloc, have time and again blocked or had modified,
> some of Harper's more odious policies and bills - whether by votes in the House, by
> private negotiation in exchange for budget support, or in the Senate. That's exactly how
> a Coalition government would work: lots of input into Bills and budget policies - from
> other than just one Party.
>
> So if Canadians are using Opposition parties to keep Harper 'in check' now, why the hell
> should we be afraid of the Liberals and NDP forming a coalition to keep ALL parties in
> check?
Prevents any one of them from becoming term dictators. We have no
recall, and historically they lie their asses off every election to
ignore us for the rest.
klunk
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:YSndn.119195$fu3....@newsfe12.iad...
hmmmmm... I find it interesting how it's always those who lie their asses
off the most on usenut are always the ones who complain the loudest about
the lies politicians tell..... hmmmmm.... I wonder why that is....
naaaaaahhhh.... not really... such types always seem to behave as if their
complaints somehow mitigate and/or justify their own behaviours.... ;-)
!Jones!
> "Canuck57" <Canuc...@nospam.com> wrote in message
I want Ken Dryden to be Prime Minister. He knows a fuck of a lot
more about hockey than Steve Harper and was a successful businessman,
lawyer, historian and sports hero. He's one of the few Anglo
Canadians who commands respect from the Quebeckers and Anglos like me.
And Harper isn't all that much of an economist, and he's a really
shitty politician. He pretends to be from the west, but is from
Leaside.
How funny that Harper is the first non-lawyer to be PM of Canada since
Lester Pearson, who was one of the prosecutors in the Nuremberg Trials
that exposed the Nazis.
I guess you don't need to be a lawyer to prosecute Nazis. Eh?