Why immigration at all?...
Vlado Zeman
: Distribution:abovegroups
: Most people who live in N. America or their ancestors have come here from
: other countries. I think the problem M. Vaillencourt has with recent
: immigrants is that many of them do not share his somewhat pale complexion.
: In aa word, he has a tendency to racism. I believe that workers
: generally, and others should be able to go wherever they want, to work
: wherever they want, 'to become more cultured, to learn. I would
: recommend that M. Vaillencourt see some of the world before his opinions
: become set in stone. He appears to be a person, probably somewhat
: younger than I (58yo), but unfortunately VERY set in his ways. It is
: indeed unfortunate that in a world changing as rapidly as this one is
: that someone forgets, the humanity they share with all. As I stated in
: another group, the myth of race is preecisely that, a MYTH. There is
: only one race, the human race. The myth originated to justify
: colonialism, and exploitation. We must leave it behind; the human race
: cannot survive, with this myth encumbering us ALL. Whether a person's
: ancestry is European, Asian, African, American ( that is, either of
: North, Central or South aboriginal) is of little relevancy as far as the
: worth of that person is concerned. Racism, sexism and ther other isms
: that belittle a person because of things they have little to control,
: also belittle the person who is subject to them.
Right on!
Allen Dong
> IMMIGRATION OUT OF CONTROL
>
> Published in IMMIGRATION
> Volume 1, #6, May 1995 Issue
> page 4,
> by Charles Campbell
>
> Last November, Charles Campbell addressed the West
> Vancouver Historical Society on Population Trends.
> After a brief background review, he turned to
> immigration and gave a comprehensive account of the
> impact of postwar immigration on Canada and British
> Columbia.
>
> This is an extremely important presentation and
> Mr. Campbell has summarized this part of his address
> for your consideration.
>
[snip, snip, snip]
>
> Even with zero immigration, the economic Counci predicted a population
>increase in British Columbia of 17 percent by 2015. With a continuation of
>current high levels of immigration the increase would reach 50 percent by
>that time. (3)
>
> Studies in the Lower Mainland and Greater Vancouver predict that the
>population of this area will double in the next 25 years. With a population
>density that now exceeds the density in Holland, this raises serious
>questions about our policies.
>
> The quality of life is decreasing, and the costs of the infrastructure
>needed to meet the demands of newcomers will be prohibitive, to say nothing
>about the destruction of arable land needed to produce food for an
>increasing population.
>
> In Vancouver, 45 percent of all students in school system are enrolled
>in English as a second language courses, and 40 percent of these were born
>in Canada. In many communities of new Candians, English is not even used.
>The children have been denied the traditional advantage of learning
>English by playing with the kids next door.
>
> Two days after the Minister's major policy conference at Ottawa last
>September, the Toronto Star leaked a document prepared by senior immigration
>advisors. It reveals an annual seven hundred million dollar welfare bill
>for sponsored dependents, and the need for health cost control.
>
> They could have added another six hundred million for refugee welfare
>claimants, a billion dollars for English as a second language training,
>sixty million for legal aid, and incalculable criminal justice costs
>resulting from our porous border.
>
Conclusion which Mr. Parson wants us to draw:
Damn it, circle the wagons! We can't have any more of those immigrants who
are bent on pillaging Canada at the expense of us hardworking citizens!
> The findings of these senior bureaucrats were not made available to the
>participants in the consultation process and were neglected in the latest
>immigration budget wich, in four deficit reducing years, has increased
>by 80 percent.
>
> The Minister has talked about promotion and recruiting from our
>traditional sources in Europe, but so far the special recruitment offices
>are being opened inBombay, Hong Kong, and Dhabi.
>
Because that's where the money is. REALITY CHECK: In this world, he who
owns the gold (or green) makes the rules. It's not my opinion; it's a fact.
> At the same time, he assures us that family reunification remains the
>cornerstone of immigration policy.
>
> In short, nothing is being done and, in spite a national consultation
>program and policy conferences, immigration and population polices
>continue to run out of control. (3)
>
>(1) Note - The 12 percent applies to the principals and does not include
> their families.
>
>(2) Note - The 44 pecent given for the family class does not include family
> members for independents and business entrants. When these are
> included the family class is much higher.
>
>(3) Note - Please refer to Editorial
>
>
Mr. Parson, you should stop inferring your opinions through these voluminous
excerpts and state your position clearly. Better yet, if you actually feel
passionate about your position, do something un-Canadian: join a political
party that shares your views, and go beyond this backhanded whining by becoming
a true shit-disturber. Organize anti-immigrant rallies; hold anti-immigrant
fundraisers (because you can't force change without buying it). It's easy to
do what you're doing right now... but it's not getting the results you desire.
I don't see our borders closing down as a result of your posts. I don't see
the wave of Asian immigration being stemmed by your posts. In fact, I don't
see how you've convinced everyone by your posts. In summary, if you want to
see changes, do something productive and positive for this great country of
ours.
--
--------------------------------------
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
Boredy Yossa
> IMMIGRATION OUT OF CONTROL
> Published in IMMIGRATION
> Volume 1, #6, May 1995 Issue
> page 4,
> by Charles Campbell
You have been spamming. Maybe the moderator of this newgroup will do
something about it. You racist pig.
Ian Parson
with you. You label them as "racist".
Boredy Yossa (yo...@unixt.aqs.ca) wrote:
Mark Freedman
>Ian Parson (ia...@io.org) wrote:
>: I see you think you have found a techniqe to silence those who disagree
>debate on these issues. But your anti-immigrant stand can easily be
>construed as racist. I'm not willing to go so far as to call you one
Have I missed a particular article in which Ian expresses approval of a
particularly "race" of immigrants and disapproval of a different one ?
I try to keep up, but with the volume of messages I do miss an occasional
key posting.
--
mdf...@io.org Mark Freedman (Toronto, Ontario, Canada)
Allen Dong
: I see you think you have found a techniqe to silence those who disagree
: Boredy Yossa (yo...@unixt.aqs.ca) wrote:
: : ia...@io.org (Ian Parson) wrote:
: : > IMMIGRATION OUT OF CONTROL
: : > Published in IMMIGRATION
: : > Volume 1, #6, May 1995 Issue
: : > page 4,
: : > by Charles Campbell
: : You have been spamming. Maybe the moderator of this newgroup will do
: : something about it. You racist pig.
And I see you think you have found a technique to silence those who
disagree with *you*: you label them as "politically correct". Actually,
I commend your political incorrectness. It means we can have a real
debate on these issues. But your anti-immigrant stand can easily be
construed as racist. I'm not willing to go so far as to call you one
because you've been careful to avoid broad stereotypes. Others are
not so charitable.
John Angus
Allen Dong (dong@newshost) writes:
> Ian Parson (ia...@io.org) wrote:
> : I see you think you have found a techniqe to silence those who disagree
> : with you. You label them as "racist".
>
> : Boredy Yossa (yo...@unixt.aqs.ca) wrote:
> : : ia...@io.org (Ian Parson) wrote:
>
> : : > IMMIGRATION OUT OF CONTROL
>
> : : > Published in IMMIGRATION
> : : > Volume 1, #6, May 1995 Issue
> : : > page 4,
> : : > by Charles Campbell
>
> : : You have been spamming. Maybe the moderator of this newgroup will do
> : : something about it. You racist pig.
>
> And I see you think you have found a technique to silence those who
> disagree with *you*: you label them as "politically correct". Actually,
Bullshit. Yossa is an imbecile who throws out accusations because he
doesn't know *how* to argue or debate.
> I commend your political incorrectness. It means we can have a real
> debate on these issues. But your anti-immigrant stand can easily be
> construed as racist. I'm not willing to go so far as to call you one
> because you've been careful to avoid broad stereotypes. Others are
> not so charitable.
You consider yourself charitable? I've got news for you, the majority
of Canadians have an enormous problem with our incompetent immigration
system and the uneducated immigrants it brings into Canada. None
of us give a damn if whiny liberal fools are willing to tolerate us
speaking out against it or not.
JA
--
"Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness" es...@cleveland.freenet.edu
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
"Peace, Order, & Good Government" an...@freenet.carleton.ca
jc
Agreed. Polls show that Canadians want immigration cut dramatically, but what
do the fucking Liberals do? Well, next year they are increasing immigration to
225,000. Make it 25,000 you Liberal morons and I will be happy with that. I
guess they figure that immigrants are a good source of Liberal votes!
Frank Dean
>I see you think you have found a techniqe to silence those who disagree
>with you. You label them as "racist".
You accuse someone of accusing you as a racist. But that does not
change the fact that you are the real racist.
Kathy Aubrey
>
>In article <DHIu0...@freenet.carleton.ca>,
> an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
>>
>>Allen Dong (dong@newshost) writes:
>>> disagree with *you*: you label them as "politically correct". Actually,
>>
>>Bullshit. Yossa is an imbecile who throws out accusations because he
>>doesn't know *how* to argue or debate.
>>
>>> I commend your political incorrectness. It means we can have a real
>>> debate on these issues. But your anti-immigrant stand can easily be
>>> construed as racist. I'm not willing to go so far as to call you one
>>> because you've been careful to avoid broad stereotypes. Others are
>>> not so charitable.
>>
>>You consider yourself charitable? I've got news for you, the majority
>>of Canadians have an enormous problem with our incompetent
immigration
>>system and the uneducated immigrants it brings into Canada. None
>>of us give a damn if whiny liberal fools are willing to tolerate us
>>speaking out against it or not.
>>
>>JA
>Agreed. Polls show that Canadians want immigration cut dramatically, but
what
>do the fucking Liberals do? Well, next year they are increasing
immigration to
>225,000. Make it 25,000 you Liberal morons and I will be happy with that.
I
>guess they figure that immigrants are a good source of Liberal votes!
Agred also. Liberals have always done that. It was P. Trudeau who
opened the flood gates to third world immigration, which almost
guarranteed that the ethnic voters would support the liberals. I remember
at that time, discussing the issue at work. The recent immigrants admitted
that they would vote liberal, because they thought the Conservatives (or any
other party) would not be as accommodating. They all wanted the family
reunification program to be expanded. I no longer have the articles but for
each qualified immigrant who can stand on his/her own two feet, he/she will
sponser 15 family members who will not be as qualified. This is still true
today. The politicians today (excluding the Reform Party) do not represent
the views of the people. What we really have is a decline of democracy
and an almost 'benign dictatorship'.
Ian Parson
Marchi Promises Review
Refugee Board Member Entered Canada Illegally
Toronto Star - Sat., Nov. 5, 1994, p. A20
Ottawa (CP) - Immigration Minister Sergio Marchi is reviewing his
appointment to the refugee board of a man who admitted he entered
Canada illegally in 1976.
Inderjit Singh Bal made the confession to federal Reform member
Art Hanger during a meeting of the House of Commons immigration
committee this week.
It was the first the minister had heard of "these points,"
Marchi's spokeperson, Judy Morrison, said yesterday.
Marchi "wants to revies the transcript . . . before drawing any
conclusions," she said.
Both the committee chair, Liberal MP Beryl Gaffney, and Marchi's
parliamentary secretary, MP Mary Cancy, siad they could not
comment.
Bal is a former chair of the Liberal party's multicultural
committee, a former candidate for the Liberal nomination in
Bramalea-Gore-Malton and a former member of the Liberal party in
Marchi's York-West riding.
In June, Marchi appointed him to the division of the Immigration
and Refugee Board that decides whether refugee claimants are
accepted to Canada.
Bal did not return calls yesterday.
Rufugee board spokesperson David Austin said board members can't
talk to the media.
Ian Parson
57 EXPERTS, ADVOCATES, INSIDERS
APPOINTED TO REFUGEE TRIBUNAL
by Allan Thompson
Toronto Star, Sat. Sept. 3, 1994, page A10
Immigration Minister Sergio Marchi has announced 57 political
appointments to Canada's refugee tribunal, filling nearly one-quarter
of the board's 240 positions.
Once again, Marchi has included a number of prominent refugee advocates
legal experts and ethnocultural group leaders among the appointments.
The list includes 39 new faces.
But he has also apparently ignored calls for further changes to open up
the process used to select new members for the $85,000-a-year posts.
Members of the Immigration and Refugee Board, which conducts hearings
into refugee claims, are still formally appointed by the Prime
Minister's Office - without interviews - from a list vetted by regional
cabinet chiefs.
"Our concern is the same as before - from what we can tell tehy are
good people, but appointed by the same old process," said David Matas,
president of the Canadian Council for Refugees.
Eighteen sitting members were yesterday re-appointed to positions on
the board. Among the 39 new members are:
* Robert Adamson, refional legal officer in Toronto with the United
Nations High Commissioner for Refugees,
* Vladmir Bubrin, Ontrio Ministry of Citizen project manager and former
executive director of the Canadian Ethnocultural Council,
* Colin MacAdam, co-ordinator of the Jesuit Refugee Service and vice-
president of the Canadian Council for Refugees, and
* Fay Sims, refugee co-ordinator with human rights group Amnesty
International.
Appointees with political connections evident from the information
provided by Marchi's office were: Grace Isgro, a York Region school
board trustee and former worker for Liberal MPP Tony Ruprecht;
Gary McCauley, a researcher and speechwriter for Liberal Senator
Robert LeBlanc; and Joan Kouri, appointed in Quebec, listed as active
in the Liberal Party.
The refugee council has called for a moratorium on appointments to the
board until an independent review committee can be created.
<<EOF>>
Chong Euming
>
>I didn't pick out any particular groups.
Yes, you did. You suggested that the govt was not doing enough to
recruit immigrants from 'traditional sources', read as European
countries. Why is there such strong animosity, maybe hatred, for Asian
immigrants?
>Didn't you know that if you even want to question government policy
>in certain areas like immigration or funding for lobby groups you
>must be a racist?
Not necessary. You seem to advocate a return of the race-based
immigration policy.
>The government should pass a law to silence people like me!
No, that is not necessary. We like to know your views. Whether we
agree or not is our perogative. If you display dislikes for a certain
group and don't wish to say so, then we will help you establish your
positions.
Glen Moore
You should get specific if you want us to give your opinion some
consideration.
Frank Dean (de...@util.thick.ca) wrote:
: ia...@io.org (Ian Parson) wrote:
: >I see you think you have found a techniqe to silence those who disagree
: >with you. You label them as "racist".
: You accuse someone of accusing you as a racist. But that does not
: change the fact that you are the real racist.
: >Boredy Yossa (yo...@unixt.aqs.ca) wrote:
Orion
: >
: >I didn't pick out any particular groups.
: Yes, you did. You suggested that the govt was not doing enough to
: recruit immigrants from 'traditional sources', read as European
: countries. Why is there such strong animosity, maybe hatred, for Asian
: immigrants?
On the contrary...the main thrust of her post was asking why the
*government* itself was ignoring immigration from European countries and
opening new immigration offices only in Asian countries. Why indeed?
: >Didn't you know that if you even want to question government policy
: >in certain areas like immigration or funding for lobby groups you
: >must be a racist?
: Not necessary. You seem to advocate a return of the race-based
: immigration policy.
No...she advocates BALANCED immigration. So do I. So do thousands (if
not millions) of other Canadians. Do you have some sort of problem with
that?
: >The government should pass a law to silence people like me!
: No, that is not necessary. We like to know your views. Whether we
: agree or not is our perogative. If you display dislikes for a certain
: group and don't wish to say so, then we will help you establish your
: positions.
Ahh...NOW I see where you guys are coming from. I read an article in
one of the local papers just a couple of weeks ago on the Asian
propensity for 'reading between the lines'; seems that some local
officials were perplexed as to why they were being accused of "racism"
over a statement they had made. Someone pointed out to them that the
local Chinese would read the statement and look for "hidden meanings" in it.
In other words, they would *interpret* it as if it were a statement by
the Chinese government, not our local city council (!)
Sorry boys, but we in the west don't tend to compose long, cryptic
passages to get our point across 'discreetly'. When we write something,
we write what we specifically *mean*...so don't be looking for "hidden
meanings" where there are none, okay?
(yet another 'cultural' difference rears its ugly head...;)
Frank Dean
>Chong Euming (eum...@pl.jaring.my) wrote:
>: ia...@io.org (Ian Parson) wrote:
>: >
>: >I didn't pick out any particular groups.
>: Yes, you did. You suggested that the govt was not doing enough to
>: recruit immigrants from 'traditional sources', read as European
>: countries. Why is there such strong animosity, maybe hatred, for Asian
>: immigrants?
> On the contrary...the main thrust of her post was asking why the
>*government* itself was ignoring immigration from European countries and
>opening new immigration offices only in Asian countries.
>Why indeed?
Foolish. Because there are already offices in Europe, but not in Asian
countries.
>: >Didn't you know that if you even want to question government policy
>: >in certain areas like immigration or funding for lobby groups you
>: >must be a racist?
>: Not necessary. You seem to advocate a return of the race-based
>: immigration policy.
> No...she advocates BALANCED immigration. So do I. So do thousands (if
>not millions) of other Canadians. Do you have some sort of problem with
>that?
Europeans do not come in large numbers, not anymore.
>: >The government should pass a law to silence people like me!
>: No, that is not necessary. We like to know your views. Whether we
>: agree or not is our perogative. If you display dislikes for a certain
>: group and don't wish to say so, then we will help you establish your
>: positions.
> Ahh...NOW I see where you guys are coming from. I read an article in
>one of the local papers just a couple of weeks ago on the Asian
>propensity for 'reading between the lines'; seems that some local
>officials were perplexed as to why they were being accused of "racism"
>over a statement they had made. Someone pointed out to them that the
>local Chinese would read the statement and look for "hidden meanings" in it.
>In other words, they would *interpret* it as if it were a statement by
>the Chinese government, not our local city council (!)
> Sorry boys, but we in the west don't tend to compose long, cryptic
>passages to get our point across 'discreetly'. When we write something,
>we write what we specifically *mean*...so don't be looking for "hidden
>meanings" where there are none, okay?
You are just being too childish. There is an abundant supply of people
who would stereotype other people, spread slanderous comments. And
when people complaint, they would just say that they are not racists
and that they do not have any hidden meanings. The fact is that there
are lots of hidden remarks and racist implications.
Frank Dean
>In article <47gd18$h...@steel.interlog.com>, co...@interlog.com says...
>>
>>In article <DHIu0...@freenet.carleton.ca>,
>> an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
>>>
>>>Allen Dong (dong@newshost) writes:
>>>> Ian Parson (ia...@io.org) wrote:
>>>> : I see you think you have found a techniqe to silence those who
>disagree
>>>> : with you. You label them as "racist".
>>>>
>>>> : Boredy Yossa (yo...@unixt.aqs.ca) wrote:
>>>> : : ia...@io.org (Ian Parson) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> : : > IMMIGRATION OUT OF CONTROL
>>>>
>>>> : : > Published in IMMIGRATION
>>>> : : > Volume 1, #6, May 1995 Issue
>>>> : : > page 4,
>>>> : : > by Charles Campbell
>>>>
>>>> : : You have been spamming. Maybe the moderator of this newgroup
>will do
>>>> : : something about it. You racist pig.
>>>>
By the way, third world countries would include Ireland, Australia,
and New Zealand.
>which almost
>guarranteed that the ethnic voters would support the liberals. I remember
>at that time, discussing the issue at work. The recent immigrants admitted
>that they would vote liberal, because they thought the Conservatives (or any
>other party) would not be as accommodating. They all wanted the family
>reunification program to be expanded. I no longer have the articles but for
>each qualified immigrant who can stand on his/her own two feet, he/she will
>sponser 15 family members who will not be as qualified. This is still true
>today. The politicians today (excluding the Reform Party) do not represent
>the views of the people. What we really have is a decline of democracy
>and an almost 'benign dictatorship'.
What's wrong about benign dictatorship? Democracy as it stands is
failing. Don't live in an ivory tower, because you simply do not know
what's going on in this world?
If you think democracy is that great, why do we have all our problems?
Frank Dean
>I don't see your point. Where was he racist?
>You should get specific if you want us to give your opinion some
>consideration.
Just read his posts. bonehead.
>Frank Dean (de...@util.thick.ca) wrote:
>: ia...@io.org (Ian Parson) wrote:
>: >I see you think you have found a techniqe to silence those who disagree
>: >with you. You label them as "racist".
>: You accuse someone of accusing you as a racist. But that does not
>: change the fact that you are the real racist.
>: >Boredy Yossa (yo...@unixt.aqs.ca) wrote:
Glen Moore
: gmo...@io.org (Glen Moore) wrote:
: >I don't see your point. Where was he racist?
: >You should get specific if you want us to give your opinion some
: >consideration.
: Just read his posts. bonehead.
I read his post and by traditional sources it meant only allowing
immigration of those who have skills Canada needs desparately and
immediately. In your previous post you falsely attributed this
to mean immigration from "European" sources only.
I think you misinterpreted the whole post. As to whether it was
an honest mistake, only you know that.
You sure are quick to call people racist, aren't you.
Chong Euming
>Frank Dean (de...@util.thick.ca) wrote:
>: gmo...@io.org (Glen Moore) wrote:
>: >I don't see your point. Where was he racist?
>: >You should get specific if you want us to give your opinion some
>: >consideration.
>: Just read his posts. bonehead.
>I read his post and by traditional sources it meant only allowing
>immigration of those who have skills Canada needs desparately and
>immediately. In your previous post you falsely attributed this
>to mean immigration from "European" sources only.
"The Minister has talked about promotion and recruiting from our
TRADITIONAL SOURCES IN EUROPE (emphasis by me) , but so far the
special recruitment offices are being opened inBombay, Hong Kong, and
Dhabi."
The above is excerpted from the speech made by Campbell and posted by
Ian Parson. It is obvious that traditional sources does not mean
skilled immigrants.
ITCHY AND/OR SCRATCHY
>traditionally only allowed those with the skills we need to
>immigrate here.
>
>I have consistently seen you redefine what people post when they say they
>don't want any immigration to mean what you want, ie. they don't want
>non-white immigration.
>
>Read the text again, the whole beginning is about skilled immigrants, and
>he is even arguing that we have too few categories under which the skilled
>immigrants can apply!
>
>Take your racial blinders off and read it again!
Out of curiousity, just who in heck is Boredy Yossa?
Shawn
cz...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
:
@freenet.carleton.ca>
Organization: Edmonton Freenet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Distribution:
John Angus (an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
: Frank Dean (de...@util.thick.ca) writes:
: > gmo...@io.org (Glen Moore) wrote:
: >
: >
: >>You sure are quick to call people racist, aren't you.
: >
: > You are quick to deny any racism, aren't you.
: >
: Ahh, I see, the mere denial makes it true.
: How wonderfully Orwellian of you.
Careful with those references; ya might make his head explode.
:)