Chinese racism in Richmond, BC....
Karen Gordon
Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
Asian population....
In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
dominated shopping malls.
A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
employees.
The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
speak these languages!
Now let's look at this....
Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
in order to find employment in her own land.
Let's look at it again.....
Since Canadians have been 'compassionate, humanitarian, tolerant and
welcoming' of non-English-speaking immigrants, bringing them in by the
hundreds of thousands, providing for their 'assimilation' by tax funding
multi-cultural programs, English-language training, and even ensuring
their employment through 'employment equity' laws, I think it would be
fair to ask.....
That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
Can one think of anything more 'humanitarian, tolerant,' and non-racist?
..... and a clearer call to reality ?
--
************************************************************************
Brian Lam
Hey KKKaren !
How come you never reply to followups ? Nothing to say ?
> Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
> Asian population....
The "problems" are mainly not with the "exploding" (BOOM) Asian population,
but with the stiff, angry, intolerant racists such as yourself.
(which i conclude from your many racist posts)
> In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
> over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
> dominated shopping malls.
>
> A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
> faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
> fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
> employees.
By claiming that there are "fewer and fewer" implies that the number of
opportunities are reduced. How could opportunities be reduced if these are
new businesses serving a new population ?
> The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
> Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
> emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
> speak these languages!
> Now let's look at this....
> Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
> in order to find employment in her own land.
It is racist to imply that the "Canadian" language is rightfully English.
Do you know history ? Do you think Canada is a rightful extension of
European territory ? A colony ? The language of Canada is as rightfully
Chinese or any other as much as English and French. The only exception is
the natives' languages. How come the settlers did not bother to learn those?
(Except for the heathen-saving missionaries)
> Let's look at it again.....
> Since Canadians have been 'compassionate, humanitarian, tolerant and
> welcoming' of non-English-speaking immigrants, bringing them in by the
> hundreds of thousands, providing for their 'assimilation' by tax funding
> multi-cultural programs, English-language training, and even ensuring
> their employment through 'employment equity' laws, I think it would be
> fair to ask.....
> That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
> Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
> required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
> language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
> that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
How much of an effect do you think EE has had so far ? What percentage of
Chinese immigrants have benefitted from EE ? "Ensuring their employment"?
Not
many !
Do you in your thick head actually consider this a serious proposal ?
I suppose anything that singles out and "strikes" at these nefariously
prosperous Asians is a good thing though, right ?
I've never heard of anything more racist. You hope to spread the misconception
that Asian businesses are somehow "discriminating" ...in fact, they are
masterminded by an inscrutable villain named Fu Manchu.... it's "us" (white
Canadians) vs. "them", right ? (as usual)
If you want to have non-Asians learn Asian language, fine. First, declare
our Asian languages as national languages and make the government pay for
language training. What a twit !
"You are very romantic. Verry romantic..."
From Beijing with Love
Ken McVay OBC
ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) wrote:
>Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
>Asian population....
>In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
>over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
>dominated shopping malls.
The City of Richmond is "restricting employment," or the
Chinese merchants are? Which is it?
If a merchant wishes to cater exclusively to Chinese
clientele, why should he not insist on employees who speak
Mandarin?
We all have a choice - we can shop where we are understood,
and can understand. If a merchant elects to dismiss the
anglophone market as unimportant for his business, he has that
right, as far as I am concerned. Hardly a case for government
involvement.
--
The Nizkor Project (Canada) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
Kenneth McVay OBC. Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/
Kevin Michael Chu
> A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press
> that her daughter faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities
> in their own city, due to fact that Chinese employers will hire
> only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking employees.
Do you have the exact text of the letter, or is this your own
interpretation? How is requiring fluency in Cantonese or
Mandarin any different than requiring basic math skills, or
computer literacy, or electrical engineering skills? I agree
with Brian Lam in that there are MORE employment opportunities
because of these new malls. If the malls weren't there, what
would be?
> Now let's look at this.... Canadians must learn to speak the
> language of immigrants to her country in order to find employment
> in her own land.
Canadians must learn the skills required for the job. I wouldn't
hire someone who couldn't speak the language of my customers.
The employers aren't requiring their employees speak ONLY
Cantonese or Mandarin.
> I think it would be fair to ask.....
>
> That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen
> Centre, Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and
> Yaohan Centre) be required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking
> employees; to provide language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN
> EMPLOYERS, and to make sure that these numbers are representative
> of the population of the province.
On-the-job training is just something that some employers
provide, and some don't.
--
Kevin Chu
Pure CHUing satisfaction.
kev...@wimsey.ca
Gerald H.Hall
: Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
: Asian population....
: In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
: over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
: dominated shopping malls.
:
: A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
: faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
: fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
: employees.
: The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
: Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
: emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
: speak these languages!
: Now let's look at this....
: Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
: in order to find employment in her own land.
: Let's look at it again.....
: Since Canadians have been 'compassionate, humanitarian, tolerant and
: welcoming' of non-English-speaking immigrants, bringing them in by the
: hundreds of thousands, providing for their 'assimilation' by tax funding
: multi-cultural programs, English-language training, and even ensuring
: their employment through 'employment equity' laws, I think it would be
: fair to ask.....
: That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
: Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
: required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
: language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
: that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
: Can one think of anything more 'humanitarian, tolerant,' and non-racist?
: ..... and a clearer call to reality ?
: --
: ************************************************************************
--
I totally agree with you Karen. I life not far from Richmand in Surrey
B.C. 25 per cent of the population of the lower mainland of B.C. are
now of Chinese background.
What we are seeing is that the immigration department are bringing
too many of one racial background - and altogether too many in a
short period of time.
To ask a Canadian-born person to learn Chinese in order to get a
job in his or her native land is ridiculous in the extreme.
I am not against immigration - nor am I racist. I love the
racial mosaic we have in British Columbia, but there must be
more balance and common sense exercised in our immigtation
policies.
Jerry Hall
Gan Wong
>A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
>faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
>fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
>employees.
The last time I checked, you had to be physically fit to be a
firefighter. That is a requirement of the job.
Maybe being able to speak chinese or cantonese is a requirement for
the job? Customers want to speak mandarin or cantonese when buying stuff?
>That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
>Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
>required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
>language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
>that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
Why only English-only-speaking employees? Why not french only
speaking employees too? Yes sirree, let's force every retailer to
have hire employees who can speak both french and english.
>Can one think of anything more 'humanitarian, tolerant,' and non-racist?
>..... and a clearer call to reality ?
Learning to speak another language is racist? I think you should
really have a look at the reality you've worked up in your mind karen.
--
Gan Wong email: ga...@sfu.ca
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby, Canada
GEORGE LIM
Just an observation from one who has lived here not too long. It's not
only Chinese immigrants though who don't speak English well. On the
contrary, quite a few of us speak and write with competence. I am
surprised that some people raised in Canada all their lives speak halting
English. I have not see them write so I can't comment on that.
Charles Ng
If it is a company that comes under the Canadian Employment Equity law
they aren't breaking the law by only hiring minorities, they only break
the law if they don't hire enough of the four designated groups:
visible minorities, women, disabled people and aboriginals.
If they don't hire enough women, that is breaking the law, but there is
nothing wrong if they ONLY hire minority women. Likewise if they never
hire a single white man in a company of hundreds of people as a policy
that is NOT against the Canadian Employment Equity Act, just as long
as they have their quotas of the four designated groups.
So she can't go to the federal Employment Equity Commission to complain.
Karen Gordon wrote:
: Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
: Asian population....
: In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
: over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
: dominated shopping malls.
:
: A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her
: daughter faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own
: city, due to fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or
: Cantonese speaking employees.
:
: The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
: Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
: emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
: speak these languages!
:
: Now let's look at this....
: Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
: in order to find employment in her own land.
:
: Let's look at it again.....
: Since Canadians have been 'compassionate, humanitarian, tolerant and
: welcoming' of non-English-speaking immigrants, bringing them in by the
: hundreds of thousands, providing for their 'assimilation' by tax funding
: multi-cultural programs, English-language training, and even ensuring
: their employment through 'employment equity' laws, I think it would be
: fair to ask.....
:
: That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
: Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
: required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
: language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
: that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
:
: Can one think of anything more 'humanitarian, tolerant,' and non-racist?
: ..... and a clearer call to reality ?
: --
: ************************************************************************
ted...@direct.ca
>
>If it is a company that comes under the Canadian Employment Equity law
Richmond was 100% non-white over 100 years ago.
Was 80% non-white over 55 years ago.
Then on Dec. 1941. The RCMP rounded up on the Canadians (by
today standards) Japanese and arrested them and put them up
at the PNE. All their property were auction off at 10 to 20 cents on
the dollar.
It wasn't until the 50's the Richmond was 80% white.
Now in the mid 90's it's down to 66% white.
Now we hear all the complaining about being able to
speak more than one language.
The Asian's save Richmond from the recession of the 90's that
Eastern Canada had (having). Our taxes only went up 3% compare to
10% and 15% elsewhere.
We have the money to build new bridges, schools, malls.
I had to learn to speak French, and Cantoneses.
Why can't you?
******************************************
Ted Lee
email: ted...@direct.ca
AX.25: VE7LEE@VE7KIT.#VANC.BC.CAN.NA
******************************************
Randy Armstrong
:
[snip]
:
: Now let's look at this....
: Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
: in order to find employment in her own land.
:
[snip]
:
: That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
: Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
: required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
: language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
: that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
:
[snip]
As a White, English speaking resident of Richmond B.C. I strongly
disagree with the statements made by Ms. Gordon. I think the time
has come for English speaking Canadians to grow up and realize that
unilingual people in the modern world will not survive. I hope that
the Chinese community will show some consideration my ensuring that
there are English store signs and ensuring that English speaking
store clerks are available so we have the option of shopping at your
stores. On the other hand, I think it time that compulsory
mandarin/catonese classes were introduced into the elementary school
system.
Randy
<The above opinions are strictly my own - not my employer's>
Brian Allardice
>A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
>faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
>fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
>employees.
>The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
>Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
>emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
>speak these languages!
>
>Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
>in order to find employment in her own land.
Hey! Karen is right! Speak the language of the customer? Provide
pleasant, courteous service? Sure as hell sounds un-Canadian to me.
Cheers,
dba
Brian Allardice
>Do you have the exact text of the letter, or is this your own
>interpretation? How is requiring fluency in Cantonese or
>Mandarin any different than requiring basic math skills, or
>computer literacy, or electrical engineering skills?
No difference. They don't know that stuff here either, and from
my observations the certainly aren't teaching it
Jason Smith
> Now let's look at this....
> Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
> in order to find employment in her own land.
>
Sure, kinda like the aboriginal Canadians who had to pick up English and
French to trade a while back. Seemed okay to us then didn't it?
Gerry Haustein
lightly these days. Example: "I don't like your hat."
(response:) "RACIST, RACIST!"
People just don't get along; look at Ireland, the USA,
just about every country in Africa, North and South
Korea, etc., etc. If it isn't one race against another
its one religion against another, or one political
group against another, or one class against another.
Those with the power abuse the rest; people who cry
"racist" are just upset because they haven't had the
chance to be the abuser yet.
"The more people I meet, the more I like my dog."
-- Anonymous
--
Gerry H.
--
It's bad luck to be superstitious.
FTL Communications
Stop the spamming.
This topic is serious and needs serious appropriate discussion but right
now I want to read about issues in Newfoundland not have to see people
from across this country discussing this distasteful topic on seven or
eight news groups at once.
So
Stop it.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
F a s t e r T h a n L i g h t C o m m u n i c a t i o n s
f...@sasknet.sk.ca http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/ftl
voice 306 873 2004 or fax 306 873 2155
Box 1776, Tisdale, Saskatchewan, Canada, S0E 1T0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob Chong
the land now called Canada from the Indians, but they called it
colonization.
The country should reflect its reality and not its history. By the year
2030 there will probably be more people in Canada whose first language is
either Mandarin or Cantonese than French. Far more people in the world
speak Mandarin and Chinese than English and French isn't even in the top
ten in the numbers of people who speak it worldwide, and in the global
market we will need other languages. So Mandarin should be made an
official language in Canada to reflect demographics and the
multicultural nature of Canada.
Not to do so would be bad for business and discriminatory against one of
the larger pluralities in Canada's population.
Karen Gordon (ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
: Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
: Asian population....
: In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
: over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
: dominated shopping malls.
:
: A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
: faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
: fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
: employees.
: The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
: Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
: emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
: speak these languages!
: Now let's look at this....
: Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
: in order to find employment in her own land.
: Let's look at it again.....
: Since Canadians have been 'compassionate, humanitarian, tolerant and
: welcoming' of non-English-speaking immigrants, bringing them in by the
: hundreds of thousands, providing for their 'assimilation' by tax funding
: multi-cultural programs, English-language training, and even ensuring
: their employment through 'employment equity' laws, I think it would be
: fair to ask.....
: That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
: Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
: required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
: language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
: that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
: Can one think of anything more 'humanitarian, tolerant,' and non-racist?
Darren J Ford
various ethnic groups in the Greater Toronto Area. (Canada)
As of early 1995. ********************
Organization Federal Ontario Metro Municipal
Afghan Women's Counseling $265,655 $ 6,000 $15,000 $
African Training/Employmt 61,166 120,925 49,111 4,000
Black Secretariat 10,000 12,000 25,000 2,000
Cdn. African Newcomers Cntr 146,750 88,402 48,208 61,766
Cdn. Cambodian Association 159,724 45,000 13,960
Cdn. Caribbean Support Serv 60,000 18,840 22,500 500
Cntr. Spanish Speaking People 249,948 636,492 27,518 8,896
Cntr. Francophone 243,498 66,894 64,515 21,435
Chinese Info/Comm. Services 306,061 289,665 70,224 39,722
Eritrean Cdn. Comm. Centre 99,492 29,617 10,150 9,150
Ethiopian Assoc. of Toronto 82,000 13,448 41,500 8,000
Filipino Services Centre 68,000 5,000 20,000 5,000
Greek Comm. Services of Metro 38,000 70,000 48,788 4,190
Guyana Canadian Association 15,000 30,000 20,000 5,000
Hungarian-Cdn. Comm. Services 14,581 25,000 4,000
Iranian Comm. Assoc. of Tor. 170,600 76,024 39,750 78,925
Jamaican Canadian Assoc 94,919 335,873 23,338
Japanese Family Services 40,000 51,260 14,000
Korean-Cdn. Women's Assoc. 78,000 54,000 27,000 1,000
Lao Assoc. of Toronto 82,999 52,300 13,293
Ntl. Congress of Italian-Cdns 8,700 11,400 1,150
Oromo-Cdn. Assoc. of Ontario 5,000 15,000 42,500 5,000
Portugese Social Serives Cntr 201,716 97,510 24,195 2,860
Port/Spanish Speaking Women 647,514 169,683 44,046 13,743
Somali-Cdn Assoc. Etobicoke 72,000 36,600 15,000 1,260
South Asian Women's Group 147,220 64,480 21,435 5,940
South African Support/Info 30,000 20,000 20,000 15,000
Tamil-Eelam Society 208,965 42,000 38,982 2,000
Toronto Chinese Services 238,023 75,000 24,000 5,000
Ukranian-Cdn Social Services 1,900 21,150 28,800 7,515
Vietnamese Assoc. of Toronto 155,000 95,000 38,400 4,500
York Hispanic Centre 20,000 40,000 15,000 8,000
This is just the tip of the iceburg. There are hundreds of such groups
receiving government grants from any or all of the levels of government.
This listing was provided by a local community newspaper,
The Frankford Advertiser, Frankford, Ontario, Canada.
Vol. #40, Issue # 20, Thursday, May 18, 1995.
Quirk
<< posted & mailed >>
On Wed, 7 Feb 1996 22:56:36 GMT, Brian Lam wrote:
+ Karen Gordon (ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
+
+ Hey KKKaren !
+ How come you never reply to followups ? Nothing to say ?
Karen is a mailbot, a computer program, there is no Karen Gordon.
What I wanna know is who are the people BEHIND "Karen Gordon", that
are too cowardly to identify themselves.
.....
Dmytri Kleiner -- Quirk
P.S. Oh, Nevermind.
dmy...@lglobal.com
http://www.lglobal.com/~dmytrik
"Gravity lets (c) 1996 Idiosyntactix (tm) Toronto
you down"
walter görlitz
Let's look at this. Why not learn Cantonese or possibly Mandarin?
In Europe, it's not unusual to find 80% of the population capable of
carring on a converstaion in English (that's not including the British
Isles where the rate is much lower :) ). They can also usually carry
on a conversation in at least one of German, French or Spanish and
possibly all three. What kind of slackers are we when we won't even
learn one other language (French) and possibly a language that would
help us in certain situations.
John Angus
Brian Allardice (d...@haven.uniserve.com) writes:
> In article <DMF7B...@freenet.carleton.ca>, ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) says:
>
>>faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
>>fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
>>employees.
>>Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
>>in order to find employment in her own land.
>
> pleasant, courteous service? Sure as hell sounds un-Canadian to me.
JA
--
"Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness" es...@cleveland.freenet.edu
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
"Peace, Order, & Good Government" an...@freenet.carleton.ca
John Angus
> ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) wrote:
>>Now let's look at this....
>>Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
>>in order to find employment in her own land.
>
on how good Asians are at adapting and asimiliating into our society?
Surely they should be learning English, not the other way around.
> In Europe, it's not unusual to find 80% of the population capable of
> carring on a converstaion in English (that's not including the British
Yes, in areas of high tourism. There is no point in learning a language
unless you're going to use it fairly often. Not only is it a waste
of time but you'll soon forget it if you don't use it.
JA
--
John D Angus | We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavouring
Ottawa, Ontario | to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure,
CANADA | stifling it would be an evil still
-John Stuart Mill
Joseph Hin-bun Mak
: Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
: Asian population....
: In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
: over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
: dominated shopping malls.
There only appears to be problems in the eyes of those who
imagine these types of problems. If the cities of Markham or
Richmond had a massive influx of German, or Italian, the
"problems" you remarked on, would not even exist.
You feel as though Chinese are restricting employment in the
chinese dominated malls. How is that? By catering to their
customers? By serving the needs of their customers? This is
only the practice of good business. Why do you target chinese
business? I don't see you complaining about the Aryan Nations
headquarters in Caroline Alberta...
: A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
: faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
: fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
: employees.
: The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
: Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
: emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
: speak these languages!
: Now let's look at this....
: Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
: in order to find employment in her own land.
Do you have the presumption that these businesses run by Chinese
are not Canadian citizens? Why do you assume they are hiring
non-Canadians? They hire on the basis of the ability to
communicate with customers. Do you complain when you go to an
Italian supermarket, that they are speaking Italian to each
other? You make too many presumptions, and too many assumptions,
stereotyping all Asians into your narrow mindset of how Asians
act and behave.
: Let's look at it again.....
: Since Canadians have been 'compassionate, humanitarian, tolerant and
: welcoming' of non-English-speaking immigrants, bringing them in by the
: hundreds of thousands, providing for their 'assimilation' by tax funding
: multi-cultural programs, English-language training, and even ensuring
: their employment through 'employment equity' laws, I think it would be
: fair to ask.....
Canadians have been compassionate, humanitarian and tolerant of
non-English speaking immigrants? They've been welcoming? Wow.
It seems that the official opposition (the Reform Party) doesn't
act in the way you picture Canadian/Immigrant relations. Last I
heard, immigration is somehow the cause of all this umemployment,
and inflation. And regarding the programs you consider
"assimilate" us... There is no official programs of
assimilation. We are not the US. Assimilation is conformance to
the norm. Here in Canada, there is (supposedly) promotion of one's
distinct culture, and ethnicity. We do not have to, nor do we
wish to act or become the likes of racists such as yourself.
Equal Employment is not solely for immigrants. You seem to have
made this assumption. Equal Employment is for Women also, who
constitute over 50% of the population in Canada. For handicapped
individuals, for those who are young, for those who are old.
Wow. You seem to have left out all those people in your
assumption that equal employment is solely for Immigrants.
: That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
: Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
: required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
: language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
: that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
Ha,ha... You're funny. Why English only? If you're going by the
official languages, why not make it mandatory that everyone also
speak French? Gee, Royal Bank, CIBC, Bank of Montreal, etc. have
all promoted and advertised in chinese languages. So should
Asian Employers be made accountable to pay them back for the ink?
: Can one think of anything more 'humanitarian, tolerant,' and non-racist?
: ..... and a clearer call to reality ?
Yeah, get it out of your head that Canadians only take on the
image of a Straight White Male...
And, maybe since it's the most appropriate time for it, you
should read up on African-Canadian history, since it's Black
History month...
--
++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Versace-wear, Moschino on my bitches...
===============================================================================
"You're best to free your mind, before I free my nine..."
The Revolution is not being broadcasted...
Representing the Holy Alliance,
Guerilla #187
j-MAK
*contact @ (403)-286-2504*
Aaron Adamack
>Sure, kinda like the aboriginal Canadians who had to pick up English and
>French to trade a while back. Seemed okay to us then didn't it?
Sure many natives had to learn English and French back in the 17 and 1800's
however many Europeans learned native languages as well in order to trade.
I'm sure if you did some research that you would find that almost every
group of people who traded had to learn the language or parts of the
language that the people they traded with used.
Now the way that Europeans took over Canada on the other hand might be
questionable, but remeber <sic?> that Asian people also took part in that
process with the Russians, as well as to some extent the Chinese (though a
very limited role several centuries ago). But then when has there ever been
a fair repopulation of land where no group has been forced off their land?
-Aaron Adamack
Les Griswold
>
> Karen Gordon (ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>
> : Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
> : Asian population....
> : In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
> : over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
> : dominated shopping malls.
>
> There only appears to be problems in the eyes of those who
> imagine these types of problems. If the cities of Markham or
> Richmond had a massive influx of German, or Italian, the
> "problems" you remarked on, would not even exist.
Exactly.
Do you realize what you've just said?
Les
--
"The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
squarely on the shoulders of us here today. Out of all the racialist
organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only the
Alliance, has the potential to bring us to victory!" -- Bob Mathews
Aaron Adamack
says...
>> Let's look at this. Why not learn Cantonese or possibly Mandarin?
>
>Why should we? Aren't all the pro immigration types constantly harping
>on how good Asians are at adapting and asimiliating into our society?
>Surely they should be learning English, not the other way around.
>
>> In Europe, it's not unusual to find 80% of the population capable of
>> carring on a converstaion in English (that's not including the British
>
>Yes, in areas of high tourism. There is no point in learning a language
>unless you're going to use it fairly often. Not only is it a waste
>of time but you'll soon forget it if you don't use it.
However in Vancouver, it is now a reality that speaking Chinese in some form
or another is of great use, and may in time be required. Besides which, if
Canada is going to get out of its current slump, we must push for greater
trade with Asia and something that will help is being able to speak the
language of the people we are trading with. Perhaps we would be better off
in B.C. if we ended or reduced the teaching of French in schools and
increase the language education in Hindi, Japanese, Mandarin and Farsi. It
is far more likely that we will export products to people speaking these
languages than to people speaking French.
-Aaron Adamack
Michael Carman
> As of this Friday, I will be laid off from my job here in Richmond. My
employer will not be hiring me for another position because I do not speak
Cantonese.
>
> Since when does anyone in this country does someone have to speak
Cantonese in order to get a job at a cash register, for crissakes? As a
Canadian who speaks both official languages, I kind of thought that would
be sufficient for such a position. But obviously not.
>
> Maybe I'm being naive... maybe if people are going to move to Canada
from other countries, I should be the one who has to adapt to their
culture and language instead. Perhaps I'm being unreasonable to expect
that people in Richmond would know enough English to pay for something at
the service counter in that language. But hey, it's the politically
correct 1990s, so I guess I should just get with the progam, eh?
Wow! You hit the nail on the head with the above. It's bang on but, as you
say, it's the "politically correct" '90s so, no doubt, you are going to be
jumped on by the bleeding hearts and branded a racist for your comments.
Only in Canada...pity.
Brian Lam
> In article <3119E6...@passport.ca>, p...@passport.ca says...
> >Sure, kinda like the aboriginal Canadians who had to pick up English and
> >French to trade a while back. Seemed okay to us then didn't it?
> Sure many natives had to learn English and French back in the 17 and 1800's
> however many Europeans learned native languages as well in order to trade.
> I'm sure if you did some research that you would find that almost every
> group of people who traded had to learn the language or parts of the
> language that the people they traded with used.
Okay, but native languages never became Canada's official languages...
> Now the way that Europeans took over Canada on the other hand might be
> questionable, but remeber <sic?> that Asian people also took part in that
> process with the Russians, as well as to some extent the Chinese (though a
> very limited role several centuries ago). But then when has there ever been
> a fair repopulation of land where no group has been forced off their land?
Where did you hear this from ? Native Americans are distantly related
to East Asians. They crossed the Berings Strait (?) to Alaska tens of
thousands of years ago. Otherwise, I don't see how Chinese or Asians took
any part in taking over this land. Do you mean by the Chinese labourers who
built most of the railroad ? They were exploited, bullied, murdered and denied
their rights as equals. Of course, there is some faint evidence that Buddhist
monks from somewhere in Asia travelled to South America a long time ago and
influenced the Mayan culture. Europeans have as much right to the Americas as
China has to Tibet (which America likes to protest against). Actually, China's
relations with Tibet were considerably better and historically longer than
those between the Americas and Europe before the first settlers (there
were no relations actually).
"You are very romantic. Verry romantic..."
From Beijing with Love
Dean Minamimaye
>As of this Friday, I will be laid off from my job here in Richmond. My employer will not be hiring me for another position because I do not speak Cantonese.
I guess it all depends on what type of job you have/had and where it was.
I can understand why employers at Aberdeen, Parker Place, etc. would want to
have Cantonese/Mandarin speaking employees....so that they will be able to
communicate with their clients. Most likely, the person hired will be able
to speak both English and Cantonese/Mandarin.
>Since when does anyone in this country does someone have to speak Cantonese in order to get a job at a cash register, for crissakes? As a Canadian who speaks both official languages, I kind of thought that would be sufficient for such a position. But obviously not.
Well I find it equally strange that I can't get a job at some stores downtown
because they request that you be fluent in Japanese to deal with their clients.
Do you know what my answer to that was?.....I am taking my second level
Japanese course right now. I feel that I am able to speak English and
Japanese, then I will have many employment oportunities.
Its good to know French, but I don't see much use for it out here on the
west coast where we are dealing more and more with Asian countries. French
seems to be more useful if you're travelling in Europe.
>Maybe I'm being naive... maybe if people are going to move to Canada from other countries, I should be the one who has to adapt to their culture and language instead. Perhaps I'm being unreasonable to expect that people in Richmond would know enough English to pay for something at the service counter in that language. But hey, it's the politically correct 1990s, so I guess I should just get with the progam, eh?
well, let's put yourself in their shoes for a minute. If you were in Hong
Kong [let's say that you got a job there or something like that], would
you feel more comfortable shopping in a store where the clerks understood
English as well as Cantonese? You may take it upon yourself to learn the
language, but it will take time, so you may feel more content shopping at
a store where the clerk can actually understand you when you ask for some
ramen noodles and toothpaste. Also, the older generation may not want to
learn a new language so late in their lives. I do realize it is fustrating,
but try to give them a break like I do when I visit my friends houses and
their parents/grandparents talk to me in Cantonese. I have learned some
Cantonese now, so I can sorta tell them that I am Japanese and I don't
understand too much of what they say.
dean
Dean Minamimaye
School of Communications
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby, BC
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Littlest Samurai
Dean Minamimaye
School of Communications
Michael Carman
Lam) wrote:
> China has to Tibet (which America likes to protest against). Actually, China's
> relations with Tibet were considerably better and historically longer than
> those between the Americas and Europe before the first settlers (there
> were no relations actually).
Ask a Tibetan about China's "wonderful" relationship with Tibet. How many
years has China occupied that country now? 35 or 40 years? How many
Tibetan monasteries has China levelled to the ground?
Yeah, real good relationship.
PKolding
>If it is a company that comes under the Canadian Employment Equity law
>they aren't breaking the law by only hiring minorities, they only break
>the law if they don't hire enough of the four designated groups:
>visible minorities, women, disabled people and aboriginals.
>If they don't hire enough women, that is breaking the law, but there is
>nothing wrong if they ONLY hire minority women. Likewise if they never
>hire a single white man in a company of hundreds of people as a policy
>that is NOT against the Canadian Employment Equity Act, just as long
>as they have their quotas of the four designated groups.
>So she can't go to the federal Employment Equity Commission to complain.
Finally, someone in this newsgroup is actually revealing a knowledge
of the law.
PKolding
>In article <DMF7B...@freenet.carleton.ca>,
>ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) wrote:
>>Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
>>Asian population....
>>In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
>>over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
>>dominated shopping malls.
>The City of Richmond is "restricting employment," or the
>Chinese merchants are? Which is it?
>If a merchant wishes to cater exclusively to Chinese
>clientele, why should he not insist on employees who speak
>Mandarin?
>We all have a choice - we can shop where we are understood,
>and can understand. If a merchant elects to dismiss the
>anglophone market as unimportant for his business, he has that
>right, as far as I am concerned. Hardly a case for government
>involvement.
Nonsense. From the Charter of Rights:
16. (3) Nothing in the Charter limits the authority of Parliament or
a legislature to advance the equality of status or use of English and
French.
walter görlitz
>walter görlitz (walter_...@mindlink.bc.ca) writes:
>> In Europe, it's not unusual to find 80% of the population capable of
>> carring on a converstaion in English (that's not including the British
>Yes, in areas of high tourism.
The traveler speaks. I have been to rural Germany, where the only
tourists were migratory birds and they could carry on a perfectly
decent conversation in English with me. I was in a small town in
Norway, and they could speak English, albeit with a British accent,
quite well.
>There is no point in learning a language unless
>you're going to use it fairly often.
Apparently getting a job where being able to serve is not your goal
(as was the idea in the original post) for you. But I have never heard
of anyone saying that exercising your mind is pointless. I have never
heard anyone say that learning the world's most common language
pointless. The only thing that I have heard people say is that English
people expect everyone to speak their language, but they never want to
speak anyone else's.
>Not only is it a waste of time but you'll
>soon forget it if you don't use it.
Then make an effort to use it whenever you can.
--------------------------------------------------------------
| walter gorlitz | "The Christian life is about |
| Vancouver, BC, Canada | the beginning of hope, |
| walter_...@mindlink.bc.ca | not the end of struggle." |
| or CIS:70404,416 | Brent Bourgeois |
--------------------------------------------------------------
send e-mail to these addresses, not to the posting address
Doug Fraser
Kevin Michael Chu <kev...@wimsey.ca> wrote:
>interpretation? How is requiring fluency in Cantonese or
>Mandarin any different than requiring basic math skills, or
The question is why is fuency in Cantonese or Mandarin required. See my
comment below.
>Canadians must learn the skills required for the job. I wouldn't
>hire someone who couldn't speak the language of my customers.
>The employers aren't requiring their employees speak ONLY
>Cantonese or Mandarin.
Please help me with this. I do not live in either Markham or Vancouver.
I do read this newsgroup on occassion and see the claims flying back and
forth.
Do these customers speak only Cantonese or Mandarin and are there enough
of them to support malls (or at least large sections of them)? If so,
does this not support the claims that there are lots and
lots of Chinese in Vancouver (or is it Richmond)? Does this not support
the claims that too many of the immigrants do not speak English? This
does not seem to support the claims that too many immigrants are taking
ESL classes.
If these customers do speak English, is this not a racist action for them
to patronise only shops where the staff speak Cantonese or Mandarin? I
would think that a white person who patronised only stores with all white
staff was a racist, even if he said he was more confortable shopping
there. I would think that a coloured person who patronised only stores
owned by coloured people was a racist even if they said they were
supporting their 'people'. I would think that an ethnic person (Chinese,
Indian, Serbian, German, etc etc) who spoke English who patronised only
stores which had staff which spoke his (or her) ethnic language was a
racist.
Doug Fraser
(for entertainment purposes only)
Brian Allardice
>Pretty easy to be snide, boy, when it's not affecting you.
OK. Let's not be snide, let's be clear. You speak the language of the
customer or you lose. Simple. No-one owes any else a living, and if
you can't or won't do the job, you're out.
And before you go on to say something silly, if all the Chinese &c.
left tomorrow, the job in question wouldn't exist at all.
Cheers,
dba
Brian Allardice
>> Let's look at this. Why not learn Cantonese or possibly Mandarin?
>
>Why should we? Aren't all the pro immigration types constantly harping
>on how good Asians are at adapting and asimiliating into our society?
>Surely they should be learning English, not the other way around.
Angus, get your head out of that hole you're in and look around. Forget
immigrants, they'll all speak English in a generation, and take a hard
look across the Pacific. It is to our great advantage to learn at least
one Asian language, and a large population of Cantonese speakers is, far
from the problem depicted by losers who don't like their little world
disturbed by Chinese signs, a great national asset and an invaluable tool
for the construction of our continued prosperity in a rapidly evolving
world.
Cheers,
dba
J. Ancier
>As of this Friday, I will be laid off from my job here in Richmond. My employer
>will not be hiring me for another position because I do not speak Cantonese.
>
>Since when does anyone in this country does someone have to speak Cantonese in
>order to get a job at a cash register, for crissakes? As a Canadian who
You got to be kiddin'? What kinda company you worked for? I can understand
why employers at Aberdeen Center...etc. would want to have Cantonese
speaking employees and maybe bank...etc would want one or two employer who
speak Cantonese but....
Does the company you worked for requires all the cash registers to be able
to speak Cantonese?
John Angus
> In article <DMHnv...@freenet.carleton.ca>, an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) says:
>
>>> Let's look at this. Why not learn Cantonese or possibly Mandarin?
>>
>>Why should we? Aren't all the pro immigration types constantly harping
>>on how good Asians are at adapting and asimiliating into our society?
>>Surely they should be learning English, not the other way around.
>
> Angus, get your head out of that hole you're in and look around.
My one meets such sweet people on usenet.
Forget
> immigrants, they'll all speak English in a generation, and take a hard
> look across the Pacific. It is to our great advantage to learn at least
> one Asian language, and a large population of Cantonese speakers is, far
> from the problem depicted by losers who don't like their little world
> disturbed by Chinese signs, a great national asset and an invaluable tool
> for the construction of our continued prosperity in a rapidly evolving
> world.
>
How philosophically delightful!
Absolute unmitated bullshit, of course, but then, nobody ever said
you had to make any sense on Usenet, and you, for one, seldom do.
First, not being able to get a job in your own city because it's been
overrun with foreigners who insist on continuing to speak their own
language, who only hire each other, and who are immune from those
delightful people at human rights commisions is not the minor
problem you seem to believe it is. Second, having farmers, truck
drivers and deliver boys speak Cantonese is not going to do us one
iota of good when some business organization negotiates a deal
with their counterparts in China, or wherever. Third, we currently
trade more with Japan than the rest of the Pacific combined and that
isn't likely to end any time soon. Therefore if we were going to
have people learn another language it ought to be Japanese. Fourth,
stop being such a stupid, ignorant dickhead.
Edward Ng
McVey is still right. The Charter doesn't even apply in this case
because it's application is predicated on the actions of a government
actor or an entity which acts by statutory authority. It applies
to things such as federal, provincial and municipal governments,
police forces, boards and tribunals who derive their powers from
statute, universities and any statute.
I only see the actions of _private_ business owners in this case. Where
is the government involved?
The Charter applies to matters of "public" interest, not private
interest.
Cheers,
Ed
--
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result
of a hundred battles.
If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will
also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every
battle."
- Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Brian Lam
Well, to get off topic...
I never said China's relationship with Tibet was "wonderful". I
was simply comparing it to Europeans relationship with the Americas. China has
occupied Tibet since the 1600's i believe. Even centuries before, Tibet was
considered a vassal state of China. China did not oppress their religion or
people then. ON the contrary, China promoted as the official religion of the
court and helped develop Tibetan lands ,teach agriculture and do trade.
In fact, a Chinese princess was married off to a Tibetan monarch.
The actions of the Chinese Communist Party are their own responsibility.
Brian Lam
> If these customers do speak English, is this not a racist action for them
> to patronise only shops where the staff speak Cantonese or Mandarin? I
> would think that a white person who patronised only stores with all white
> staff was a racist, even if he said he was more confortable shopping
> there. I would think that a coloured person who patronised only stores
> owned by coloured people was a racist even if they said they were
> supporting their 'people'. I would think that an ethnic person (Chinese,
> Indian, Serbian, German, etc etc) who spoke English who patronised only
> stores which had staff which spoke his (or her) ethnic language was a
> racist.
No, how is it "racist" ? If I was a stamp collector and i didn't patonize
a strip club does that make me a racist ? It's not only the language anyway,
it's the goods and services of the store ! I've never seen a white owned
tong shui (Chinese dessert) store ...
Btw, in Hong Kong, there are many English speaking only establishments
(with signs in English only) that are meant to make the Westerners feel more
comfortable, such as pubs and restaurants. Even though they speak English
only, many Chinese do patronize them anyway. On the other hand, when a
Westerner steps into a Chinese restaurant over here, the staff will surely
speak English to them.
Jeff Joseph
>Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
>Asian population....
>In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
>over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
>dominated shopping malls.
>A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
>faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
>fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
>employees.
So is Richmond restricting employment in the malls or the employers?
>The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
>Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
>emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
>speak these languages!
Well, why not? If those businesses overwhelmingly draw an Asian customer
base, why *shouldn't* the employers want their workers to know the
dialects? Why doesn't the daughter of the "long-term resident" learn
Mandarin or Cantonese? Would that not improve her employment
opportunities?
>Now let's look at this....Canadians must learn to speak the language of
>immigrants to her country in order to find employment in her own land.
If Canadians want to do business in China, what language do you think
they try to learn?
>Let's look at it again.....
>Since Canadians have been 'compassionate, humanitarian, tolerant and
>welcoming' of non-English-speaking immigrants,
Although the history books have read different on this...
>bringing them in by the hundreds of thousands,
And if they start their own business and employ themselves, we should be
*applauding* them.
>providing for their 'assimilation' by tax funding multi-cultural programs,
That's another issue.
>English-language training,
So, what if the Chinese say "we won't take the English-language training
in exchange for the right to run our own businesses where we can speak
our own language"? Something tells me you would run this same post all
over again and just take the "English-language training" phrase out.
>That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
>Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
>required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees;
Which would do wonders for the bulk of their customers. You know - the
ones who are still more comfortable using Cantonese or Mandarin.
>Can one think of anything more 'humanitarian, tolerant,' and non-racist?
>..... and a clearer call to reality ?
Yes. And I'm still waiting for you to show it.
--
("`-''-/") Jeff Joseph
`o_ o' ) E-mail:jjo...@interlog.com
(_Y_.)'
`--'
Neil
> Why should Canada continue to support a dying language by continuing to
> support French as an official language? If Canada wants to survive
> economically it should be making Mandarin the official second language of
> this country. If you want to survive in the world economy, you should be
> speaking the most common languages which of course includes English, but
> not French.
What an ethnocentric point of view! French is by far the 2nd-most common
language spoken by Canada. That is not in danger of changing at any point
in the near future, unless Quebec leaves.
________________________________________
|Neil Singh, |^| |
|University of Arizona, <^\| |/^> |
|Tucson, Arizona, U.S.A. <__ __> |
|http://u.arizona.edu/~neilends | |
|________________________________________|
Bob Levitt
languages be spoken (whether that be Mandarin, Cantonese, Russian, or
any other language,) not because it is a necessity to the job, but in
an effort to limit hiring to specific groups of people and to unfairly
discriminate against all others"?
Neil
> A coalition of 10 Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and fundamentalist Christian
> parents is taking the government to court this week, arguing it is
> unconstitutional to refuse to provide funding for all religious
> alternative programs within the public school system.
> They say school boards should at least be allowed to offer religion as
> alternative programs or schools, where there is the demand.
What a load of GARBAGE. Religion should stay OUT of Canadian schools,
whether it's the religion of the majority (Christianity) or the religion
of minorities (Hinduism, Sikhism, etc). Canadians of all backgrounds need
to put a stop to this destruction of Canada's basic democratic values.
Unknown
>Brian Allardice (d...@haven.uniserve.com) writes:
>> In article <DMF7B...@freenet.carleton.ca>, ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) says:
>>
>>>A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
>>>faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
>>>fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
>>>employees.
Language ability is a job skill, just like such skills as accounting,
typing, class 4 driving license, child caring etc. Discrimination
based on job skills is totally valid. Discrimination based on sex,
race religion is invalid.
In this case, the daughter does not possess the required job skill,
which is the ability to speak a certain language, therefore she is not
hired. This is totally reasonable.
>>>Now let's look at this....
>>>Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
>>>in order to find employment in her own land.
>>
>> Hey! Karen is right! Speak the language of the customer? Provide
>> pleasant, courteous service? Sure as hell sounds un-Canadian to me.
>
>Pretty easy to be snide, boy, when it's not affecting you.
If you do not have a certain job skill, you better learn it, or get
lost.
Bob Chong
Even Hindi is spoken by more people than English worldwide.
Both languages as well as English are in the top 10 of languages spoken
worldwide. French is not in the top ten and is a dying language.
The Vancouver Board of Education had the forsight a couple of years ago
to start a Mandarin immersion school. It has been extremely successful.
They had the insight to realize that it is the leading language in the
World and if Canada wants to compete in the global market Canadians should
know the language. More public school boards should be doing what
Vancouver did and this program should be expanded to post-secondary
institutions.
Why should Canada continue to support a dying language by continuing to
support French as an official language? If Canada wants to survive
economically it should be making Mandarin the official second language of
this country. If you want to survive in the world economy, you should be
speaking the most common languages which of course includes English, but
not French.
If you don't want to learn these languages then expect to be out of a job!
Clayton Wood (mcw...@direct.ca) wrote:
: In article <DMF7B...@freenet.carleton.ca>, ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) says:
: >
: >
: >Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
: >Asian population....
: >In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
: >over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
: >dominated shopping malls.
: >
: >A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
: >faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
: >fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
: >employees.
: >The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
: >Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
: >emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
: >speak these languages!
: >
: >Now let's look at this....
: >Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
: >in order to find employment in her own land.
: As of this Friday, I will be laid off from my job here in Richmond. My employer will not be hiring me for another position because I do not speak Cantonese.
: Since when does anyone in this country does someone have to speak Cantonese in order to get a job at a cash register, for crissakes? As a Canadian who speaks both official languages, I kind of thought that would be sufficient for such a position. But o
bviously not.
: Maybe I'm being naive... maybe if people are going to move to Canada from other countries, I should be the one who has to adapt to their culture and language instead. Perhaps I'm being unreasonable to expect that people in Richmond would know enough Eng
lish to pay for something at the service counter in that language. But hey, it's the politically correct 1990s, so I guess I should just get with the progam, eh?
: Actually, the place next store is hiring - but since I can't understand the help wanted sign in the window (it's in Chinese only, go figure) I guess I'll have to take a pass. Anyone know any good foreign, I mean local, language schools here that could
perhaps help me out?
Darren J Ford
: Mandarin is spoken by more people in the world than any other language.
: Even Hindi is spoken by more people than English worldwide.
: Both languages as well as English are in the top 10 of languages spoken
: worldwide. French is not in the top ten and is a dying language.
: The Vancouver Board of Education had the forsight a couple of years ago
: to start a Mandarin immersion school. It has been extremely successful.
: They had the insight to realize that it is the leading language in the
: World and if Canada wants to compete in the global market Canadians should
: know the language. More public school boards should be doing what
: Vancouver did and this program should be expanded to post-secondary
: institutions.
: Why should Canada continue to support a dying language by continuing to
: support French as an official language? If Canada wants to survive
: economically it should be making Mandarin the official second language of
: this country. If you want to survive in the world economy, you should be
: speaking the most common languages which of course includes English, but
: not French.
: If you don't want to learn these languages then expect to be out of a job!
Too bad you want Canadian taxpayers to teach the languages of YOUR choice.
This reminds me of other demands like the following:
PARENT'S GROUP WANTS RELIGION IN PUBLIC SCHOOL
Multi-faith coalition takes fight to court
by Rita Daly
Toronto Star, Monday, August 29, 1994, page 1
Manohar Singh Bal's 4-year-old son is bound to learn a lot of things
when he starts kindergarten next week - but his Sikh religion won't be
one of them.
That's because the Ontario education ministry prohibits religious
indoctrination in the province's public schools.
Now, that 1990 decision is about to be challenged.
A coalition of 10 Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and fundamentalist Christian
parents is taking the government to court this week, arguing it is
unconstitutional to refuse to provide funding for all religious
alternative programs within the public school system.
They say school boards should at least be allowed to offer religion as
alternative programs or schools, where there is the demand.
Ironically, they are fighting a government policy meant to protect
those same multi-faith groups they represent.
"I don't think anybody, including myself, expects that each school in
the province should have classes in all religions," said Bal, whose
son Bilram Singh will attend Parkfield Public School in Etobicoke.
"But if there is interest, there has to be something that can be
developed," he said, adding he wants his son to learn Sikh values as
they are enshrined in their holy book, Guru Granth Sahib, as part of
his day-to-day schooling.
His only other alternative, he said, is to pay tuition fees at an
independent school.
The parents' court action, which begins Thursday in Toronto, comes on
the heels of a closely related Ontario Court of Appeal ruling last
month; the court rejected claims of full funding to independent
Christian and Jewish schools.
Peter Jervis, the lawyer acting on the parents' behalf, said waht is
different with this week's case is that it argues for religious
instruction inside the public school system.
He noted: "School boards can effectively run alternative schools
already, and they do so for drama programs, to assist native culture,
or for kids having difficulty learning."
Religion as an alternative program should also be allowed, he said,
because the secular nature of public schools is offensive to some
families; it is racist.
The government's decision to keep religious instruction out of
classrooms came after an Ontario Court ruling in 1990 that found
indoctrination in any one religion in public schools violates the
Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the same law that this group is using
for demanding that their religions be taught in public schools.
Brian Allardice
>First, not being able to get a job in your own city because it's been
>overrun with foreigners who insist on continuing to speak their own
>language, who only hire each other, and who are immune from those
>delightful people at human rights commisions is not the minor
>problem you seem to believe it is.
On the contrary, these foreigners are *creating* jobs, not stealing jobs
from the poor ignorant locals.
>Second, having farmers, truck
>drivers and deliver boys speak Cantonese is not going to do us one
>iota of good when some business organization negotiates a deal
>with their counterparts in China, or wherever.
We were speaking of a customer service job, dealing with Chinese speaking
clients.
>Third, we currently
>trade more with Japan than the rest of the Pacific combined and that
>isn't likely to end any time soon. Therefore if we were going to
>have people learn another language it ought to be Japanese.
I have no objection to Japanese.
As to the rest, it depends what you mean by soon. China has had a
bad couple of centuries to be sure, but if one looks at potential it
is certainly there; maybe it will be realised soon, maybe it won't, but
as the last 50 years have shown, things can change with astonishing
speed.
> Fourth,
>stop being such a stupid, ignorant dickhead.
Poor Angus, stooping so low. You must be having a hard time these
days. You like your immigrants hardworking but unassertive, willing
to learn simple tasks, to be sure, but no need for University degrees,
successful to the point of not being a public burden, but certainly in
no position to be your equal or superior. Poor Angus, so unsure of
your identity, so doubtful of your continued status as a master of the
Universe, so fearful of the future that will obviously not honour your
privileged position as did the past. Poor, poor Angus....
Cheers,
dba
John Angus
Glen Fisher () writes:
> an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
>
>>>>Now let's look at this....
>>>>Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
>>>>in order to find employment in her own land.
>>>
>>> pleasant, courteous service? Sure as hell sounds un-Canadian to me.
>>
>>Pretty easy to be snide, boy, when it's not affecting you.
>
> If you do not have a certain job skill, you better learn it, or get
> lost.
So, we have this fellow who's gone to school, worked hard, and gotten
a job in his home city. Due to a sudden massive increase in immigration
his choice is to somehow learn a foreign language to communicate with
all these foreigners - or get out. And you idiots just can't figure out
where that backlash is coming from?
Duh...they's just racists, that's it. No need to pay attention to them.
This reminds me of what happened in the UK. All the liberals pooh poohed
any concern about massive immigration, sneering at those who complained,
calling them racists. The, whoops, one day there came that big ol'
backlash from those "racists" who happened to make up the great majority
of people, and now...well, try to immigrate to the UK from a non white
country.
Brian Lam
> Bob Chong (bch...@io.org) writes:
>
> Both Mandarin and Hindi are spoken by more absolute numbers of peoples, but
> neither is an important language on the world scale. Neither is spoken
> outside a particular localized area, while English is the international
> language of business, technology and tourism.
What do you mean ? A "local" area ? China is about the size of Western Europe!
It is made of many different provinces and ethnic minorities. However,
Mandarin is widely, though not completely spoken by these people. Mandarin is
also spoken in Taiwan, Hong Kong (esp. after 97), Singapore, Malaysia and
other parts of South East Asia. So Mandarin is spreading, as the
importance of China grows.
> To repeat, Mandarin is not a leading language. It is, in fact, pretty
> much a useless language if you're talking about international business.
I don't think you are in international business, are you ? Why is Japanese
one of the language streams in Carleton's Int'l Business program ?
It has just been added, and i'm sure (if the school is smart) that Mandarin
should follow.
If China and Asia are not important potential markets, why is Chretien
pressing the flesh over there and being a pussycat towards China's human
rights record ? Ever heard of the Canada-China Business Council ? They
reccomend that those who wish to do business learn Mandarin.
The fact that Chinese children are enrolling in the high school (or
was it grade school ?) language courses is basically irrelevant. These kids
are not learning mainly for culture but for praticality. Most of them are
probably Hong Kong immigrants or 2nd gen Chinese, so Mandarin would not be a
first language or a language spoken at home (as opposed to Cantonese).
John Angus
> Mandarin is spoken by more people in the world than any other language.
> Even Hindi is spoken by more people than English worldwide.
> Both languages as well as English are in the top 10 of languages spoken
> worldwide. French is not in the top ten and is a dying language.
neither is an important language on the world scale. Neither is spoken
outside a particular localized area, while English is the international
language of business, technology and tourism.
> The Vancouver Board of Education had the forsight a couple of years ago
> to start a Mandarin immersion school. It has been extremely successful.
> They had the insight to realize that it is the leading language in the
> World and if Canada wants to compete in the global market Canadians should
To repeat, Mandarin is not a leading language. It is, in fact, pretty
much a useless language if you're talking about international business.
And though I don't see any statistics I'd be willing to bet the vast
majority taking this immersion course are Asian children of immigrants.
China is not yet important enough as a market for us to consider widespread
language courses.
> know the language. More public school boards should be doing what
> Vancouver did and this program should be expanded to post-secondary
> institutions.
>
Waste of time and money. If you're going to teach a language for international
business communication try French - which is used in dozens of countries,
Japanese - our largest market after the US and continuing to grow, or
Spanish, also used in many different countries.
> speaking the most common languages which of course includes English, but
> not French.
It does include French, and Spanish (the colonial countries who spread their
languages around) It does not include Mandarin.
JA
--
John D Angus | We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavouring
Ottawa, Ontario | to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure,
CANADA | stifling it would be an evil still
-John Stuart Mill
John Angus
> In article <DMKA...@freenet.carleton.ca>, an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) says:
>
>>First, not being able to get a job in your own city because it's been
>>overrun with foreigners who insist on continuing to speak their own
>>language, who only hire each other, and who are immune from those
>>delightful people at human rights commisions is not the minor
>>problem you seem to believe it is.
>
> On the contrary, these foreigners are *creating* jobs, not stealing jobs
> from the poor ignorant locals.
of new jobs created in Canada last year. We can be safe then, in saying
that they do not create as many jobs as they take up. Either that or
most of them come here and go on welfare or UIC.
>> Fourth,
>>stop being such a stupid, ignorant dickhead.
>
> Poor Angus, stooping so low.
You mean to your level?
You like your immigrants hardworking but unassertive, willing
> to learn simple tasks, to be sure, but no need for University degrees,
Actually, if you had a brain, or even half a brain, and had been following
many of the immigrant threads you would know that one of my main complaints
about immigration is that too many are not educated enough.
> successful to the point of not being a public burden, but certainly in
> no position to be your equal or superior.
If you mean "your" as in Canada then you're quite right. I don't want
our culture swamped by an endless stream of foreigners who have entirely
different views on too many things I hold important.
William J. Olsson
>In article <michaelc-090...@van-pm-0216.direct.ca>,
>mich...@direct.ca (Michael Carman) wrote:
>
>What's with you people? Richmond employers are not looking for
>employees that speak Chinese and no English. They are looking
>for employees that speak Chinese. That is, fluency in Chinese is
>a job requirement.
Now why is it a job requirement. What percentage of the customers speak
chinese ONLY?? What is wrong with having ONE person on the job who can
speak chinese to handle those customers who only speak chinese??
>I guess people who can't type should look for
>jobs as typists, and people who don't know anything about
>medicine should look for jobs as doctors. Maybe when you open up
>your own store, you can hire salespeople who can't speak the same
>language as your customers.
So is it because all of the customers only speak chinese??. maybe you
should visit some stores in Banff owned by japanese and staffed by people
who do not understand nor speak english.
--
.........................................................................
Bill Olsson (403) 531-1385 (office)
Zuttroy(!)
ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) wrote:
>
>Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
>Asian population....
A problem only in your twisted and hate-filled mind, Karen.
>In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
>over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
>dominated shopping malls.
>
>A long-term resident, a caucasian, has written to the press that her daughter
>faces fewer and fewer employment opportunities in their own city, due to
>fact that Chinese employers will hire only Mandarin or Cantonese speaking
>employees.
Depends on which way you're looking at it. As a retailer, you want to
provide the best service possible to your customers. Since the clientele
is largely Chinese, it makes sens for sales representatives to be able
to speak that language. Much like if you are a software firm, you want
your employees to "speak" to their machines in C, C++, etc.
In any case, Chinese employers are still providing more opportunities and
benefits to this country - not taking them away. There's more prosperity
in that area than ever. Instead of being all xenophobic about it, you should
learn to see it as a source of great opportunity. Instead, you're
causing more problems than you believe you are helping, spreading all this
fear and hatred.
>The answer? - according to Victor Wong, of the Association of Chinese
>Canadians (the same one who told us to 'brace for' the 700,000 Hong Kong
>emigrants poised to come to Canada) - is to have the Canadians learn to
>speak these languages!
>
>Now let's look at this....
>Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
>in order to find employment in her own land.
..and immigrants have to learn the language of the land just to survive.
If someone doesnt want to take a job at a shop requiring knowledge of
Chinese, then don't take it. Look at it this way...if the government
had restricted development of these shops, would the same person who
is looking for jobs have *more* ooportunities to find employment?
Answqer: no. If anything, these shops are adding to the types of
opportunities available out there...hardly restricting them.
>Let's look at it again.....
>Since Canadians have been 'compassionate, humanitarian, tolerant and
>welcoming' of non-English-speaking immigrants, bringing them in by the
>hundreds of thousands, providing for their 'assimilation' by tax funding
>multi-cultural programs, English-language training, and even ensuring
>their employment through 'employment equity' laws, I think it would be
>fair to ask.....
..of which they are paying for anyways, through their own initial
investment of $250K+ and taxes - property tax, sales tax on the
merchandise they sell, income tax, etc. - not to mention
providing jobs, increasing consumption, offering more opportunities
for people to set up businesses and services there, etc. etc...
>That Asian employers of the ever-growing Asian malls (Aberdeen Centre,
>Fairchild Square, Parker Place, President Plaza and Yaohan Centre) be
>required BY LAW to hire English-only-speaking employees; to provide
>language training at the EXPENSE OF ASIAN EMPLOYERS, and to make sure
>that these numbers are representative of the population of the province.
And what sort of service would they be providing to their customers?
Longer waits because of translation, confusion on the sales floor,
general alienation of Asian customers.
>Can one think of anything more 'humanitarian, tolerant,' and non-racist?
>...... and a clearer call to reality ?
Certainly not this. For a purported conservative, you're certainly
advocating some major government interference, which would also
cost moeny...government action always does. And your tone of
fiscal concern certainly doesn't hide your xenophobic tendencies.
Ter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zuttroy(!)
"Work hard...and at the end of
the day you'll get a nice shiny
penny." - M.B.
Zuttroy(!)
Gerry Haustein <gerry_h...@nortel-nsm.com> wrote:
>People throw the 'racist' word around a little too
>lightly these days. Example: "I don't like your hat."
>(response:) "RACIST, RACIST!"
>
>People just don't get along; look at Ireland, the USA,
>just about every country in Africa, North and South
>Korea, etc., etc. If it isn't one race against another
>its one religion against another, or one political
>group against another, or one class against another.
>Those with the power abuse the rest; people who cry
>"racist" are just upset because they haven't had the
>chance to be the abuser yet.
Perhaps "the abusers" should stop whining about losing
that position to equality, fostering hatred against
outgroups, and just let people get on with their lives
in peace. Whoa, radical thought...
Nicholas Sidor
>On 11 Feb 1996, Darren J Ford quoted an article:
>> A coalition of 10 Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and fundamentalist Christian
>> parents is taking the government to court this week, arguing it is
>> unconstitutional to refuse to provide funding for all religious
>> alternative programs within the public school system.
>> They say school boards should at least be allowed to offer religion as
>> alternative programs or schools, where there is the demand.
>What a load of GARBAGE. Religion should stay OUT of Canadian schools,
>whether it's the religion of the majority (Christianity) or the religion
>of minorities (Hinduism, Sikhism, etc). Canadians of all backgrounds need
>to put a stop to this destruction of Canada's basic democratic values.
There's a bit more to it than Mr. Ford wrote. The case is basically
arguing that, if Roman Catholic separate schools are publicly funded,
why shouldn't other religious schools?
That is a worthwhile question to at least ask, wouldn't you say?
nick
Nick Sidor
nsi...@magi.com
Kevin Chu
an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
> walter görlitz (walter_...@mindlink.bc.ca) writes:
> > Let's look at this. Why not learn Cantonese or possibly Mandarin?
>
> Why should we? Aren't all the pro immigration types constantly harping
> on how good Asians are at adapting and asimiliating into our society?
> Surely they should be learning English, not the other way around.
The point is, you (John Angus and others) have a problem with an
employer requiring a job skill you do not have. You are calling
the act of specifying a job requirement failing to adapt or
assimilate. Is looking for a particular job skill supposed to be
defying anyone's wishes? Hmmm.... I don't know anything about
first aid, but since I have some other skill, like, flower
arrangement, I should have some sort of right to be an ambulance
attendant. Right? My my, how insulting it is to have to have a
job skill.
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
Kevin Chu
> In article <4fdpc9$2...@orb.direct.ca>,
> mcw...@direct.ca (Clayton Wood) wrote:
>> culture and language instead. Perhaps I'm being unreasonable to
>> expect that people in Richmond would know enough English to pay
>> for something at the service counter in that language. But hey,
> Wow! You hit the nail on the head with the above. It's bang on
> but, as you say, it's the "politically correct" '90s so, no
> doubt, you are going to be jumped on by the bleeding hearts and
> branded a racist for your comments.
What's with you people? Richmond employers are not looking for
employees that speak Chinese and no English. They are looking
for employees that speak Chinese. That is, fluency in Chinese is
a job requirement. I guess people who can't type should look for
jobs as typists, and people who don't know anything about
medicine should look for jobs as doctors. Maybe when you open up
your own store, you can hire salespeople who can't speak the same
language as your customers.
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
Neil
> There's a bit more to it than Mr. Ford wrote. The case is basically
> arguing that, if Roman Catholic separate schools are publicly funded,
> why shouldn't other religious schools?
>
> That is a worthwhile question to at least ask, wouldn't you say?
Yes, and thank you for pointing that out Nicholas. It is indeed hypocrisy
to fund Roman Catholic schools, but not schools of other religions. If it
were under my control, of course, Roman Catholic schools would lose their
public funding altogether.
Neil
> Neil (neil...@U.Arizona.EDU) wrote:
> > to put a stop to this destruction of Canada's basic democratic values.
>
> The "seperation of church and state" is an American eternal verity, not a
> Canadian one.
You quoted the phrase, not I. It doesn't matter, anyway. I still see
Canada as a nation that values democracy above all else, witnessed by the
tolerance for two Quebec referendums in which the issue of independence
was addressed by votes, not by bloodshed. In my view, democracy includes a
public education that does not show bias toward people of one particular
faith or background.
Nicholas Sidor
>On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Nicholas Sidor wrote:
>> There's a bit more to it than Mr. Ford wrote. The case is basically
>> arguing that, if Roman Catholic separate schools are publicly funded,
>> why shouldn't other religious schools?
>>
>> That is a worthwhile question to at least ask, wouldn't you say?
>Yes, and thank you for pointing that out Nicholas. It is indeed hypocrisy
>to fund Roman Catholic schools, but not schools of other religions. If it
>were under my control, of course, Roman Catholic schools would lose their
>public funding altogether.
Wow. Not scared of a fight, are you? Can't turn the clock back on that
one, that's for sure. Bloodbath guaranteed....
It'll be interesting to see what the court says.
nick
Nick Sidor
nsi...@magi.com
Steven Meece
> to put a stop to this destruction of Canada's basic democratic values.
The "seperation of church and state" is an American eternal verity, not a
Canadian one.
---
Steven Meece
http://chat.carleton.ca/~smeece
When a nation's young men are conservative, its funeral bell is
already rung.
- Henry Ward Beecher
Brian Allardice
>
>Brian Allardice (d...@haven.uniserve.com) writes:
>> On the contrary, these foreigners are *creating* jobs, not stealing jobs
>> from the poor ignorant locals.
>The number of immigrants coming into Canada vastly outnumbered the number
>of new jobs created in Canada last year. We can be safe then, in saying
>that they do not create as many jobs as they take up. Either that or
>most of them come here and go on welfare or UIC.
Don't duck the issue by generalisations. This is *not* the case in
Richmond. In B.C. the welfare fuss is all the losers from the rest of
Canada (in the BC, not Quebec, sense of the term) "overunning" our
fair rain forest. (That's another long story, of course) Gees, here the
problem is that these nasty foreigners live in *BIG HOUSES* and drive
*EXPENSIVE CARS*. I doubt that they came to Canada to steal cashiers'
jobs.
In any case, I hope you are not studying economics. The "lump of labour"
fallacy should have been knocked out of our head in first year.
>If you mean "your" as in Canada then you're quite right. I don't want
>our culture swamped by an endless stream of foreigners who have entirely
>different views on too many things I hold important.
Different views on what? Bear Parts? Pierre Burton?
Cheers,
dba
PKolding
>PKolding (pkol...@cts.com) wrote:
>: kmc...@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>: >In article <DMF7B...@freenet.carleton.ca>,
>: >ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) wrote:
>: >>Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
>: >>Asian population....
>: >>In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
>: >>over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
>: >>dominated shopping malls.
>: >The City of Richmond is "restricting employment," or the
>: >Chinese merchants are? Which is it?
>: >If a merchant wishes to cater exclusively to Chinese
>: >clientele, why should he not insist on employees who speak
>: >Mandarin?
>: >We all have a choice - we can shop where we are understood,
>: >and can understand. If a merchant elects to dismiss the
>: >anglophone market as unimportant for his business, he has that
>: >right, as far as I am concerned. Hardly a case for government
>: >involvement.
>: Nonsense. From the Charter of Rights:
>: 16. (3) Nothing in the Charter limits the authority of Parliament or
>: a legislature to advance the equality of status or use of English and
>: French.
>McVey is still right. The Charter doesn't even apply in this case
>because it's application is predicated on the actions of a government
>actor or an entity which acts by statutory authority. It applies
>to things such as federal, provincial and municipal governments,
>police forces, boards and tribunals who derive their powers from
>statute, universities and any statute.
>I only see the actions of _private_ business owners in this case. Where
>is the government involved?
>The Charter applies to matters of "public" interest, not private
>interest.
If the government can require AA for private businesses it can surely
legislate with respect to language. And Section 16 (3) even outranks
the Equality provisions that support AA.
On the other hand, the Charter is rather a weak reed with respect to
interpretation, I'll admit. It seems to me that government and the
judges decide what they want irrespective of the Charter, and then say
that that is what the Charter allows.
PKolding
In short, is there systemic racial discrimination because of the
language demands of the employers. Personally, I have no problem with
employers hiring whomever they please, upon their own biases and
prejudices. Unfortunately, Canada has institutionalised AA and
therefore the racial, ethnic, linguistic and sexual apartheid system
this has created demands every member of the multiplicity of "groups"
must protect themselves from every other "group" upon AA terms.
Zuttroy(!)
bn...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
>Joseph Hin-bun Mak (jhb...@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca) writes:
>>
>> Karen Gordon (ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>>
>> : Markham, Ontario is not the only city with problems with the exploding
>> : Asian population....
>> : In Richmond, BC, a city with an Asian population of at least 33% (just
>> : over the past 8-10 years), is now restricting employment in the Chinese-
>> : dominated shopping malls.
>>
>> imagine these types of problems. If the cities of Markham or
>> Richmond had a massive influx of German, or Italian, the
>> "problems" you remarked on, would not even exist.
>
>Exactly.
>
>Do you realize what you've just said?
As usual, you're being deliberately dense.
Boubacar Bah
position in a computer company paying pretty well. Can you imagine ? :
They were asking language requirements such as C++, Small Talk, AS400:
SQL, Visual Basic...I think it is another form of discrimination that:
the Human Right Commission should look into.:
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boubacar Bah (Boubah)
Poullo Foutah on mo Labe
So you want me to be responsible for my own actions? You must be kidding!
Graham Bullers
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution:
--Tim May
[This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the Communications Decency Act]
And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why
don't you boys just come on in and fuck them right here in my house - I'll just
watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said. "Dad's
getting old. I say we should fuck him." So the two daughters got him drunk and
screwed him all that night. Sure enough, Dad got them pregnant....Onan really
hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant while
his brother got all the credit, so he pulled out before he
came....Remember, it's not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your
brother, your parents,
your pet dog, or the farm animals, unless God tells you to. [excerpts from
the Old Testament, Modern Vernacular Translation, TCM, 1996]
--
=-GRAHAM-JOHN BULLERS=-=AB...@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA=-=ALT.2600.MODERATED-=
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.The courage
to change the things I can.And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=I had to kill because they pissed me off=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
AL gallant
: On 11 Feb 1996, Darren J Ford quoted an article:
: > A coalition of 10 Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and fundamentalist Christian
: > parents is taking the government to court this week, arguing it is
: > unconstitutional to refuse to provide funding for all religious
: > alternative programs within the public school system.
: > They say school boards should at least be allowed to offer religion as
: > alternative programs or schools, where there is the demand.
: What a load of GARBAGE. Religion should stay OUT of Canadian schools,
: whether it's the religion of the majority (Christianity) or the religion
: of minorities (Hinduism, Sikhism, etc). Canadians of all backgrounds need
: to put a stop to this destruction of Canada's basic democratic values.
: ________________________________________
: |Neil Singh, |^| |
: |University of Arizona, <^\| |/^> |
: |Tucson, Arizona, U.S.A. <__ __> |
: |http://u.arizona.edu/~neilends | |
: |________________________________________|
--
Neil:
The way things are going there will be no schools in the near future. If
children are being educated, taught morals, and raised to be decent
people, not Bernardo's, then why not let people have their religions in
school. What is your problem?
Someone who went to Catholic School and is sending her children there too!
Neil
> The way things are going there will be no schools in the near future. If
> children are being educated, taught morals, and raised to be decent
> people, not Bernardo's, then why not let people have their religions in
> school. What is your problem?
My problem is that religion can be shoved down the throats of children who
either are not interested in it, or who do not belong to the particular
religion being force-fed to them. In a public education system, I believe
it is a right a child should have to be educated in a secular environment.
Being taught morals and good principles is something that can be taught at
schools _without_ Jesus Christ or Allah's words being taught as though
they are "the truth." If you wish to teach your child morals based on the
Bible, that is what your home is for, and what private schools are for.
Bob Chong
construction of a new luxury 12 story condominium to be built at
harbourfront that confirms to all environmental and city zoning bylaws.
Think of how many jobs he is creating for his fellow Canadians.
Think of how many jobs are created when you multiply this by 200,000!
Jeanne-Mance Bavington
From: nsi...@magi.com (Nicholas Sidor)
Newsgroups: bc.general,ont.general,tor.general,can.general,can.politics,soc.cul
Subject: Re: Religion in Canadian schools
Date: Sun Feb 11 16:04:22 1996
Neil <neil...@U.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>On 11 Feb 1996, Darren J Ford quoted an article:
>> A coalition of 10 Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and fundamentalist Christian
>> parents is taking the government to court this week, arguing it is
>> unconstitutional to refuse to provide funding for all religious
>> alternative programs within the public school system.
>> They say school boards should at least be allowed to offer religion as
>> alternative programs or schools, where there is the demand.
>What a load of GARBAGE. Religion should stay OUT of Canadian schools,
>whether it's the religion of the majority (Christianity) or the religion
>of minorities (Hinduism, Sikhism, etc). Canadians of all backgrounds need
>to put a stop to this destruction of Canada's basic democratic values.
There's a bit more to it than Mr. Ford wrote. The case is basically
arguing that, if Roman Catholic separate schools are publicly funded,
why shouldn't other religious schools?
That is a worthwhile question to at least ask, wouldn't you say?
nick
Nick Sidor
nsi...@magi.com
-------------------------------
If God put us on this earth...
and we cannot survive without God...
why do we try so hard to keep God out of our lives???
--
Jeanne-Mance:
"J'aime qu'on m'aime...
comme j'aime, quand j'aime!"
cat...@execulink.com
>Neil <neil...@U.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>>On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Nicholas Sidor wrote:
>>> There's a bit more to it than Mr. Ford wrote. The case is basically
>>> arguing that, if Roman Catholic separate schools are publicly funded,
>>> why shouldn't other religious schools?
>>>
>>> That is a worthwhile question to at least ask, wouldn't you say?
>>Yes, and thank you for pointing that out Nicholas. It is indeed hypocrisy
>>to fund Roman Catholic schools, but not schools of other religions. If it
>>were under my control, of course, Roman Catholic schools would lose their
>>public funding altogether.
>Wow. Not scared of a fight, are you? Can't turn the clock back on that
>one, that's for sure. Bloodbath guaranteed....
>It'll be interesting to see what the court says.
Even Bob Rae knew not to toy with this one. And, yes, let's leave it
up to the unelected judges to usurp the policies of governments
democratically-elected by the people by insisting that EVERY religion
gets school funding. Their decision and the resultant effects are
inevitable. Chalk up another one for universality and the Charter.
- The Abortionists College
- The Abolitionists College
- The Apologists College
Mustn't forget about the The Zundel School of Kulture.
Fully funded, property tax receipts available.
My question: How much will it cost (my calculator only displays 9
digits).
Maybe we can keep the best of the two we have and merge them.
Richard S. Day
>>>>>Canadians must learn to speak the language of immigrants to her country
>>>>>in order to find employment in her own land.
>>>>
>>>> pleasant, courteous service? Sure as hell sounds un-Canadian to me.
>>>
>>>Pretty easy to be snide, boy, when it's not affecting you.
>>
>> If you do not have a certain job skill, you better learn it, or get
>> lost.
>
>I see.
>
>So, we have this fellow who's gone to school, worked hard, and gotten
>a job in his home city. Due to a sudden massive increase in immigration
>his choice is to somehow learn a foreign language to communicate with
>all these foreigners - or get out. And you idiots just can't figure out
>where that backlash is coming from?
Well, John, when a computer company stops programming in ADA and decides to use
C++, odds are it will end up losing some staff and hiring others. Tough on the
guys who went to school, worked hard to learn ADA, and got a job in their home
city. But due to a sudden massive increase in demand for C++ coding, the choice
is to learn the language - or get out. So what is the difference? Language
skills, whether spoken or in computer programming, are job skills. And
requirements for particular sets of job skills change from time to time (ask
some of the unemployed cod fishermen on the East coast about the effect of
this).
Chinese immigration to Vancouver has brought a huge amount of investment with
it. The malls in question are a small example. So what if they cater mostly to
Asians? An Italian friend of mine runs a very successful restaurant supplying
"ethnic" foods here in Richmond. Speak Italian there and you will find that he
and all his staff speak the language. Is he doing something wrong? He expects
lots of Italian customers, and seeks to make their visit to his place of
business more enjoyable by ensuring his staff speak the language. A simple
business decision, not racism.
>Duh...they's just racists, that's it. No need to pay attention to them.
>
>This reminds me of what happened in the UK. All the liberals pooh poohed
>any concern about massive immigration, sneering at those who complained,
>calling them racists. The, whoops, one day there came that big ol'
>backlash from those "racists" who happened to make up the great majority
>of people, and now...well, try to immigrate to the UK from a non white
>country.
>
Well, the Brits have *never* had much of a reputation for racial tolerance,
have they?
Ric
Michel Catudal
Neil,
I agree 100% with you. Morals are taught at home by Mom and Dad. Don't expect the school
to do it for you. The same goes for religion.
Michel Catudal
Laissez le bon temps rouler
Terrence
: >On 11 Feb 1996, Darren J Ford quoted an article:
: >> A coalition of 10 Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and fundamentalist Christian
: >> parents is taking the government to court this week, arguing it is
: >> unconstitutional to refuse to provide funding for all religious
: >> alternative programs within the public school system.
: >> They say school boards should at least be allowed to offer religion as
: >> alternative programs or schools, where there is the demand.
: >What a load of GARBAGE. Religion should stay OUT of Canadian schools,
: >whether it's the religion of the majority (Christianity) or the religion
: >of minorities (Hinduism, Sikhism, etc). Canadians of all backgrounds need
: >to put a stop to this destruction of Canada's basic democratic values.
: There's a bit more to it than Mr. Ford wrote. The case is basically
: arguing that, if Roman Catholic separate schools are publicly funded,
: why shouldn't other religious schools?
: That is a worthwhile question to at least ask, wouldn't you say?
: nick
: Nick Sidor
: nsi...@magi.com
From terrence:
I think it is important to note that Canada's basic democratic values
stem from basic Christian principles."
I am a Christian and I will certainly agree that Christians should NOT be
taking a government or its' agency to court to force the teaching of
religion in any setting.
These belong in the home and in the church (or gathering) of each
individual's choice. If parents' would "Walk their talk" there would be
no need for government to be involved. Kids would observe and imitate
their parents. As the bible say..."Train up a child in the way he should
go and when he is older he will not turn from it." Training a child is
the RESPONSIBILITY of the parent, whether it be religion, manners,
morals, respect, etc.
I would not want ANY government or government agency to have anything to
do with the raising of my children. Good grief....these people, for the
most part, are devoid of any morals.
Regarding the funding of Roman Catholic schools....(I am not a Catholic)
I would agree that if the teaching was wasteful as in improper education,
weak morals, turning out garbage kids that become baggage on society then
maybe we would want to look at where our tax dollars are going. But as
far as I can determine the education these kids get is EXCELLENT..and
what is wrong with teaching the Ten Commandments (which by the way are
not Ten suggestions)
a) no stealing
b) honour your mom and dad
c) go to church
d) don't murder
e) don't lie about another person
f) don't go to bed with your neighbour's wife
g) don't mis use the name of God
I know there are others but why take up all your time.
Ok..so I paraphrased..but you get the drift of what I am saying.
Then the government funds so called "art" (with a small "a" deliberately).
Someone takes women's discarded sanitary napkins....filthy and smelling
and creates what he calls "art" and no one says a word about their tax
dollars going into this project. Another urinates in a jar and sticks a
cross in it (catholic cross with Christ depicted) and the government
funds this "art" and no one says "Why is the government giving this sicko
my hard earned money?"
So you work hard all week, you get your paycheck
and part of it is missing.....if you want it back...go on down to your
local art gallery and stick you hand in the pocket of the above artist,
there you will find part of your paycheck.
As I said earlier..I agree that religion should be taught at home..not
government funded...but it seems to me that you complainers have your
priorities slightly backwards.
Will all the hypocrites amongst us please stand.
Terrence
John Angus
> In article <DMHnv...@freenet.carleton.ca>,
> an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
>> > Let's look at this. Why not learn Cantonese or possibly Mandarin?
>>
>> Why should we? Aren't all the pro immigration types constantly harping
>> on how good Asians are at adapting and asimiliating into our society?
>> Surely they should be learning English, not the other way around.
>
> The point is, you (John Angus and others) have a problem with an
> employer requiring a job skill you do not have. You are calling
> the act of specifying a job requirement failing to adapt or
> assimilate.
A bunch of foreigners come here, and then, instead of learning
English they suggest we learn their language? And you find it
odd we're indignant?
Kevin Chu
Sorry for the dupes.
Wimsey's news server was recently stolen and replaced, and I
believe the backup restorations caused the problem. I've told my
postmaster about it.
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
J. Ancier
a9...@mindlink.bc.ca (Richard S. Day) wrote:
>In article <DMMC0...@freenet.carleton.ca>, an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says...
>>
>>
>>So, we have this fellow who's gone to school, worked hard, and gotten
>>a job in his home city. Due to a sudden massive increase in immigration
>>his choice is to somehow learn a foreign language to communicate with
>>all these foreigners - or get out. And you idiots just can't figure out
>>where that backlash is coming from?
>
>Well, John, when a computer company stops programming in ADA and decides to use
>C++, odds are it will end up losing some staff and hiring others. Tough on the
>guys who went to school, worked hard to learn ADA, and got a job in their
>
.....[SNIP]
>
>Asians? An Italian friend of mine runs a very successful restaurant supplying
>"ethnic" foods here in Richmond. Speak Italian there and you will find that he
>and all his staff speak the language. Is he doing something wrong? He expects
>
.....[SNIP]
>
>>This reminds me of what happened in the UK. All the liberals pooh poohed
>>any concern about massive immigration, sneering at those who complained,
>
.....[SNIP]
>
>Well, the Brits have *never* had much of a reputation for racial tolerance,
>have they?
Can't you guys just stop arguin' with people like Mr. Angus? He's quite
obviously poorly educated and/or brainwashed. He'll believe what he wants
to.
Intelligent people don't make stupid remarks like he did....
P.S. poorly educated doesn't mean he has no college degree.
Kevin Chu
an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
> A bunch of foreigners come here, and then, instead of learning
> English they suggest we learn their language? And you find it
> odd we're indignant?
How do you know the foreigners don't learn English? They are
requiring you to learn their language if you want a job they are
providing, so you will be able to talk to their customers in more
than one language -- probably English and another language. If
you don't want the job they are providing, they probably don't
care whether or not you learn their language. There are other
cash registers to operate. McDonald's has some.
Apparently it is difficult for you to understand that fluency in
a language can be considered a job skill, whether that language
is a foreign language or C++ (as in another article).
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
>I think it is important to note that Canada's basic democratic values
>stem from basic Christian principles.
I have a great problem when people make a statement like this.
The problem is that it often leads to great leaps in logic to conclusions
that are not valid.
Let me explain in simple terms....
Christian values: A, B, C, D, E, and F
Canada's basic values: B, C, and E
From this, it is correct to say, "that Canada's basic democratic values
stem from basic Christian principles".
The problem is that the "leap in logic" occurs in two possible ways,
often both. First, somewhere along the line, one starts to argue along
the line that we (Canada) have forgotten our values A, D, and F. These
are not Canada's values, but Christian values that get superimposed on
Canada's values because the statement above is accepted and somehow leads
to the reverse being true. That is, that SINCE Canada's values *ARE*
Christian values, therefore Canada's values must include *ALL* Christian
values.
The second problem is that users of the statement tend to proceed with
arguments while forgetting things like:
Jewish values: A, B, C, E, G, and H
Muslim values: B, C, D, E, and J
... and on and on.....
The point is, the statement is true, but it is not exclusive. Yet,
many transfer the exclusivity to its truth and run with it in arguments
leaving the truth stranded behind.
Canada's basic democratic values stem from principles that happen
to be some basic Christian principles, but it is important to not forget
that they are not exclusively Christian principles, nor do they encompass
ALL Christian principles.
--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE | "If the women don't find you handsome,
Ryerson Polytechnic University | they should at least find you handy."
Toronto, Ontario, Canada | - Red Green
John Angus
> John Angus (an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> I don't think you are in international business, are you ? Why is Japanese
> one of the language streams in Carleton's Int'l Business program ?
Because Japan is our largest market after the US?
> It has just been added, and i'm sure (if the school is smart) that Mandarin
> should follow.
> If China and Asia are not important potential markets, why is Chretien
> pressing the flesh over there and being a pussycat towards China's human
> rights record ? Ever heard of the Canada-China Business Council ? They
Chretien got elected to office so he could get free travel. He junkets
all over the world, using alleged business deals as a cover, and he behaves
pretty much the same, whether in Asia or Africa.
JA
--
John D Angus | We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavouring
Ottawa, Ontario | to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure,
CANADA | stifling it would be an evil still
-John Stuart Mill
Kevin Chu
an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
> I don't want our culture swamped by an endless stream of
> foreigners who have entirely different views on too many things I
> hold important.
What's "our culture"? I hope I don't belong to the same culture
you do, and I've lived here 26 years, and some of my family
members close to 100.
If people have different views, how does that affect "our
culture"? Does everyone currently in "our culture" have exactly
the same view?
What if a big auto plant opened up, and we (this thread is about
Richmond, I don't know what you're doing complaining from
carleton.ca) were swamped by an endless stream of auto workers?
They have different views. What if Microsoft and IBM set up
their corporate offices here? We'd (we not including
carleton.ca) be swamped by suits and computerheads. They also
have different views. Someone wants to open up a shop with a
different clientele, and oh boy, they better look out.
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
Zuttroy(!)
There was a story in the Sun by Matt Fisher about Mike Harris visiting Hong
Kong and receiving massive support from the businesspeople over there for how
he's tackling the deficit and promoting Ontario as "open for business".
The story mention's one of the principle reasons Li is developing in
Ontario is because of Tory business policy. It's good to see that the
Tories have their priorities straight (ie. getting Ontario out of the
financial doldrums) instead of pandering to the racist backlashers in this
province.
Ter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zuttroy(!) tw...@systems.uwaterloo.ca
"Work hard...and at the end of http:/sail.uwaterloo.ca/~twoo
StevenChao
are passing or passed to impose unequal employment??
"The turd that doesn't flush,"
Peace,
StevenChao
PAUL KOBYLSKI
Bob Chong (bch...@io.org) wrote:
: Richard Lee, a landed immigrant living in Hong Kong, has just announced the
: construction of a new luxury 12 story condominium to be built at
: harbourfront that confirms to all environmental and city zoning bylaws.
: Think of how many jobs he is creating for his fellow Canadians.
: Think of how many jobs are created when you multiply this by 200,000!
Isn't that the son of the BIG Hong Kong Real Estate Tycoon who has been
making all the luxury condominiums there and got in trouble for only
advertising them in Hong Kong and in B.C. in Chinese, in effect shutting
out any non-chinese reading people from purchasing units?
He isn't doing it because it benefits Toronto, he is doing it for profit.
And this one immigrant is not any more representative of all 200,000
immigrants a year than:
The 28 year old vietnamese immigrant Ken Sa who shot a teacher and a
guidance counsellor at Toronto's Brockton High School because he was
flunking his classes due to non-attendance and needed a letter falsely
stating he was attending his classes or he was going to be kicked off of
welfare, or
Clinton Gayle, drug dealer and murderer of a police officer, or
the chinese gangsters involved in the recent Toronto Chinatown slaying
using an AK-47 machine gun, or
the Jamaican immigrants involved in the Just Deserts restaurant robbery and
murder, or
all the various cases where Somalis have been caught defrauding Ontario's
welfare system, or
the Morocans who are illegally entering the country, or
the recently broken up Guyanese illegal immigrant smuggling group operating
out of Toronto, or
the illegal Nigerian immigrants who had a car theft ring which shipped the
stolen vehicles back to Nigeria, or
should I continue with the list of drug crimes, attacks, murders, etc., that
are in the news daily being committed by immigrants who were not suitably
screened out by Canada's immigration bureacracy?
Does this one possibly positive example excuse the 3000 immigrants who have
been ordered deported for criminal activities in Canada but are evading
their deportation? And what about imported criminals who have not been
caught and may never be? Shouldn't we have tried to prevent them from
entering in the first place? And what about the estimated 1,000,000
illegals in Canada; should we excuse them with yet another government
amnesty?
Somebody already posted government figures proving business immigrants only
made up about 3% of the total and Investor immigrants less than half of the
business category. The one example you gave does not justify the other
200,000+ that come every year.
Nicholas Sidor
>nsi...@magi.com (Nicholas Sidor) wrote:
>>Neil <neil...@U.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Nicholas Sidor wrote:
>>>> There's a bit more to it than Mr. Ford wrote. The case is basically
>>>> arguing that, if Roman Catholic separate schools are publicly funded,
>>>> why shouldn't other religious schools?
>>>>
>>>> That is a worthwhile question to at least ask, wouldn't you say?
>>>Yes, and thank you for pointing that out Nicholas. It is indeed hypocrisy
>>>to fund Roman Catholic schools, but not schools of other religions. If it
>>>were under my control, of course, Roman Catholic schools would lose their
>>>public funding altogether.
>>Wow. Not scared of a fight, are you? Can't turn the clock back on that
>>one, that's for sure. Bloodbath guaranteed....
>>It'll be interesting to see what the court says.
>Even Bob Rae knew not to toy with this one. And, yes, let's leave it
>up to the unelected judges to usurp the policies of governments
>democratically-elected by the people by insisting that EVERY religion
>gets school funding. Their decision and the resultant effects are
>inevitable. Chalk up another one for universality and the Charter.
I wouldn't be so certain of that outcome. What makes you think so?
Would you bet money on it? :)
>My question: How much will it cost (my calculator only displays 9
>digits).
Shouldn't cost any more. Same number of kiddies.... Already enough
buses...
nick
Nick Sidor
nsi...@magi.com
John Angus
>
> Can't you guys just stop arguin' with people like Mr. Angus? He's quite
> obviously poorly educated and/or brainwashed. He'll believe what he wants
> to.
> Intelligent people don't make stupid remarks like he did....
> P.S. poorly educated doesn't mean he has no college degree.
>
This is a common problem with fascists. They're overweening arrogance
condemns anyone who disagrees with their poorly thought-out arguments
as inferiors. This is probably a neccessary self-defence mechanism.
If they couldn't smugly ignore their opponents they might have to
confront the preposterous assumptions of their own deluded beliefs.
Seig Heil, oh great one.
Ignore detractors. They're all inferiors anyway.
John Angus
Richard S. Day (a9...@mindlink.bc.ca) writes:
> In article <DMMC0...@freenet.carleton.ca>, an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says...
>>
>>So, we have this fellow who's gone to school, worked hard, and gotten
>>a job in his home city. Due to a sudden massive increase in immigration
>>his choice is to somehow learn a foreign language to communicate with
>>all these foreigners - or get out. And you idiots just can't figure out
>>where that backlash is coming from?
>
> Well, John, when a computer company stops programming in ADA and decides to use
> C++, odds are it will end up losing some staff and hiring others. Tough on the
> city. But due to a sudden massive increase in demand for C++ coding, the choice
Hardly fair to compare learning a computer language to learning Mandarin,
which doesn't even use latin phonetics. I've learned computer languages.
Providing you have a firm grounding in computer basics they aren't that
difficult or time-consuming to master. Learning a foreign language is
quite a different matter. If you're in the federal civil service, for example,
they send you away on a six month or one year course just to learn French.
I can imagine how hard it would be to learn Mandarin instead, not to mention
how expensive it would be, and how time consuming for someone in the private
sector. Furthermore, in this context, the language skill affects all jobs,
not just a particular subset. Presuming more and more employers require it
a non billingual person would be shut out of more and more different kinds
of jobs.
> Asians? An Italian friend of mine runs a very successful restaurant supplying
> "ethnic" foods here in Richmond. Speak Italian there and you will find that he
> and all his staff speak the language. Is he doing something wrong? He expects
> lots of Italian customers, and seeks to make their visit to his place of
And don't these Italians speak English? And if not why not? If you're
going to immigrate to Canada you damned well ought to learn the language.
cook
> Richard Lee, a landed immigrant living in Hong Kong, has just announced the
> construction of a new luxury 12 story condominium to be built at
> harbourfront that confirms to all environmental and city zoning bylaws.
>
> Think of how many jobs he is creating for his fellow Canadians.
>
> Think of how many jobs are created when you multiply this by 200,000!
Did he even bother to offer them for sale in Canada? Numerous
developments have only been offered for sale in Hong Kong and have been
totally sold out to offshore speculators.
George Slade
>
> Terrence (terr...@unix.infoserve.net) said...
>
> >I think it is important to note that Canada's basic democratic values
> >stem from basic Christian principles.
>
> I have a great problem when people make a statement like this.
>
I was just called for Jury Duty. I was very interested to watch
that the oath of the Juror was taken over the Bible. (last I checked
a Chritian book.) I watched East Indians (who may or may not have
been Christians) take the oath. No one questioned the act of the
oath over the Bible.
I began to wonder why our legal system relies so heavily on an
oath over a book that so many seem to not believe.
I don't have the answer, I just thought it very interesting.
George Slade
Kevin Chu
ols...@freenet.calgary.ab.ca (William J. Olsson) wrote:
> Now why is it a job requirement. What percentage of the
> customers speak chinese ONLY?? What is wrong with having ONE
> person on the job who can speak chinese to handle those customers
> who only speak chinese??
It is a job requirement because the employer wants it. The same
way physical fitness is required to be a firefighter.
I don't know what percentage of the customers speak Chinese only,
and how many Chinese-speaking employees are needed depends on the
customers. It is irrelevant how many of the customers speak
Chinese only, because the employer might think his or her
customers want to do business in their choice of language. These
are the employer's business decisions, and if he goes out of
business because he made bad decisions, well, that's business.
> So is it because all of the customers only speak chinese??.
> maybe you should visit some stores in Banff owned by japanese and
> staffed by people who do not understand nor speak english.
I've been to many Vancouver Japanese restaurants where the
waitresses or other staff could barely speak English. It doesn't
bother me. I'm Chinese and there were Caucasians in my English
classes who could barely speak English. I've also been to other
ethnic restaurants where the staff could barely speak English,
and they've always been eager to have/serve more customers, even
if the customer spoke only English, and believe it or not, I've
been to a White Spot where a waiter not only didn't know English
that well, he didn't know what salsa is. (He kept bringing
saucers of varying sizes.) You could probably pick some people
of any ethnic group out of a high school and find that their
English skills aren't what they should be.
If customers speak Chinese only, they will be better served by
stores with Chinese-speaking staff. If customers speak English
only, they will be better served by stores with English-speaking
staff. Multilingual people will have more options, multilingual
stores will have more potential customers. It is the employer's
business decision what language(s) he requires of his employees.
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
John Angus
> In article <DMMBp...@freenet.carleton.ca>,
> an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
>
>> I don't want our culture swamped by an endless stream of
>> foreigners who have entirely different views on too many things I
>> hold important.
>
> culture"? Does everyone currently in "our culture" have exactly
> the same view?
>
most Asian cultures tend to be hostile towards free speech, freedom
of religions, alternative lifestyles, very prejudiced towards
other visible and ethnic minorities, extremely sexist and opposed
to public support of the poor, disabled, and elderly. When you have
a majority of the people of a given district composed of people with
this kind of culture how is that going to affect what had been
the mainstream culture? I wonder if there'll come a day in BC when
nobody qualifies for welfare, no matter how long they've been
residents.
Boubacar Bah
Bob Chong (bch...@io.org) wrote:
: Richard Lee, a landed immigrant living in Hong Kong, has just announced the
: construction of a new luxury 12 story condominium to be built at
: harbourfront that confirms to all environmental and city zoning bylaws.
: Think of how many jobs he is creating for his fellow Canadians.
: Think of how many jobs are created when you multiply this by 200,000!
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boubacar Bah (Boubah)
Poullo Foutah on mo Labe
So you want me to be responsible for my own actions? You must be kidding!
J. Ancier
an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
>> Can't you guys just stop arguin' with people like Mr. Angus? He's quite
>> obviously poorly educated and/or brainwashed. He'll believe what he wants
>> to.
>> Intelligent people don't make stupid remarks like he did....
>> P.S. poorly educated doesn't mean he has no college degree.
>>
>No. It just means I don't agree with you. Right?
Nope, the other way around, just b'cuz they don't agree with you or share
the same opinion. I haven't been arguin' with you so the above statement
isn't valid. I just find your messages to be shit and full of hate and
jealousy. Poorly educated as in mentally and morally.
>This is a common problem with fascists. They're overweening arrogance
>condemns anyone who disagrees with their poorly thought-out arguments
>as inferiors. This is probably a neccessary self-defence mechanism.
>If they couldn't smugly ignore their opponents they might have to
>confront the preposterous assumptions of their own deluded beliefs.
Are you talking about yourself? looks like it.
No one requires you to learn any Chinese dialect and no one forces you to
agree with them. Immigrants do have to learn English and it's up to english
speaking people if they want to learn a foreign language. It's also the
decision of the employers to hire the employees they needed. for instance,
bank of montreal, it was the decision of the higher management to have
Chinese and/or other languages printed on the deposit..etc slips, not the
decision of the immigrants.
No, you don't have to reply, i've already added you to my filter pref. but
you are likely to reply to let other people SEE what you are gonna say.
Live but not let live. It's pathetic to livin' in his own world.
J. Ancier
an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
>I can imagine how hard it would be to learn Mandarin instead, not to mention
>how expensive it would be, and how time consuming for someone in the private
>sector. Furthermore, in this context, the language skill affects all jobs,
>not just a particular subset. Presuming more and more employers require it
>a non billingual person would be shut out of more and more different kinds
>of jobs.
I see, too hard is the reason.
>> and all his staff speak the language. Is he doing something wrong? He expects
>> lots of Italian customers, and seeks to make their visit to his place of
>
>And don't these Italians speak English? And if not why not? If you're
>going to immigrate to Canada you damned well ought to learn the language.
Another demonstration of 'he'll believe what he wants to...'
Hey it's a fabulous idea, we should all learn how to speak the native
language. I have no objection and I totally agreed with Mr. Angus.
Brian Allardice
>As has been pointed out by numerous people on numerous occasions,
>most Asian cultures tend to be hostile towards free speech, freedom
>of religions, alternative lifestyles, very prejudiced towards
>other visible and ethnic minorities, extremely sexist and opposed
>to public support of the poor, disabled, and elderly. When you have
>a majority of the people of a given district composed of people with
>this kind of culture how is that going to affect what had been
>the mainstream culture?
Sounds like Reform. Is this whole thing a plot by Preston Manning?
Cheers,
dba
cat...@execulink.com
>I think it is important to note that Canada's basic democratic values
>stem from basic Christian principles."
>These belong in the home and in the church (or gathering) of each
>individual's choice. If parents' would "Walk their talk" there would be
>no need for government to be involved. Kids would observe and imitate
>their parents. As the bible say..."Train up a child in the way he should
>go and when he is older he will not turn from it." Training a child is
>the RESPONSIBILITY of the parent, whether it be religion, manners,
>morals, respect, etc.
>I would not want ANY government or government agency to have anything to
>do with the raising of my children. Good grief....these people, for the
>most part, are devoid of any morals.
>Regarding the funding of Roman Catholic schools....(I am not a Catholic)
>I would agree that if the teaching was wasteful as in improper education,
>weak morals, turning out garbage kids that become baggage on society then
>maybe we would want to look at where our tax dollars are going. But as
>far as I can determine the education these kids get is EXCELLENT.
But we're stuck with the school system taking charge since so many
parents are derelict in this responsibility. I switch from Public to
Separate support precisely because I realized the same thing you're
saying here.
>Then the government funds so called "art" (with a small "a" deliberately).
>Someone takes women's discarded sanitary napkins....filthy and smelling
>and creates what he calls "art" and no one says a word about their tax
>dollars going into this project. Another urinates in a jar and sticks a
>cross in it (catholic cross with Christ depicted) and the government
>funds this "art" and no one says "Why is the government giving this sicko
>my hard earned money?"
I'm adding you to my list, Terrance!
If anybody wants to see more examples of the above, view
http://www.newswire.ca/releases/January1996/24/c2726.html