H1N1 vaccines are again being diverted away from Canada to the USA
Some Guy
Canada by subsidiaries of US companies are being diverted to supply the
US market.
As a result, ALL Americans (regardless of risk catagory) have been able
to get the vaccine several weeks before the vaccine was made available
in Canada, and now we hear that there will probably be a shortage of the
vaccine in Canada for the general public.
Critics have stated that our innoculation programs in Canada and Ontario
specifically have come too late, and should have started 6 weeks ago.
But what they don't say (or don't know) is that the reason for the delay
was to insure that the USA got all the doses that it needed first.
When are we going to demand more of our public heath units and our
policy makers?
DevilsPGD
claimed to have wrote:
>As has happened in previous years, supplies of vaccines that are made in
>Canada by subsidiaries of US companies are being diverted to supply the
>US market.
>
>As a result, ALL Americans (regardless of risk catagory) have been able
>to get the vaccine several weeks before the vaccine was made available
>in Canada, and now we hear that there will probably be a shortage of the
>vaccine in Canada for the general public.
A swing and a miss. I work for a US company, and part of our conference
call yesterday was discussing the H1N1 vaccine, most of the griping
being that the company offering to pay for vaccinations isn't very
useful since unless you're in a high risk group you can't qualify
anyway.
The grass is *always* greener.
Warren Oates
DevilsPGD <Death...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
> A swing and a miss. I work for a US company, and part of our conference
> call yesterday was discussing the H1N1 vaccine, most of the griping
> being that the company offering to pay for vaccinations isn't very
> useful since unless you're in a high risk group you can't qualify
> anyway.
>
> The grass is *always* greener.
We got ours today (I have asthma - the oul' Woman is a "caregiver"); it
only took an hour from the time we showed up until the poke in the arm.
They like you to sit around for 15 mins after, in case you keel over.
By the time we left, the line was shorter, too. I heard about 5 - 6 hour
line-ups in Kingston yesterday, though.
--
Suddenly he realized that he was alone
with a giant halfwit on a dark deserted street.
-- Chester Himes
DevilsPGD
<warren...@gmail.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>In article <sj1me599rhm0e3271...@4ax.com>,
> DevilsPGD <Death...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>
>> A swing and a miss. I work for a US company, and part of our conference
>> call yesterday was discussing the H1N1 vaccine, most of the griping
>> being that the company offering to pay for vaccinations isn't very
>> useful since unless you're in a high risk group you can't qualify
>> anyway.
>>
>> The grass is *always* greener.
>
>We got ours today (I have asthma - the oul' Woman is a "caregiver"); it
>only took an hour from the time we showed up until the poke in the arm.
>They like you to sit around for 15 mins after, in case you keel over.
>
>By the time we left, the line was shorter, too. I heard about 5 - 6 hour
>line-ups in Kingston yesterday, though.
Damn socialized medicine. Horrible, just horrible.
Some Guy
> > As has happened in previous years, supplies of vaccines that are
> > made in Canada by subsidiaries of US companies are being diverted
> > to supply the US market.
>
> A swing and a miss. I work for a US company, and part of our
> conference call yesterday was discussing the H1N1 vaccine, most
> of the griping being that the company offering to pay for
> vaccinations isn't very useful since unless you're in a high
> risk group you can't qualify anyway.
Your statement above is almost incoherent. I'm not really sure what
point you're making.
Nothing you said counters what I said about Ontario being short of the
vaccine because supplies are being diverted to the US.
> The grass is *always* greener.
In this case, it is.
Americans of all age groups have been lining up for the H1N1 vaccine for
the past 3 weeks.
Not just the "high risk" groups.
OldHobo
Yeah? Well have a look at the line-ups in the States!
Some Guy
> > Damn socialized medicine. Horrible, just horrible.
>
> Yeah? Well have a look at the line-ups in the States!
At least the US has all the vaccine doses it needs. They are giving it
to everyone down there.
But here in Ontario, all of a sudden we've got a critical shortage -
because all of our pre-assigned doses are being diverted to the USA.
And as far as the regular (seasonal) flu shot - good luck getting one.
No idea when it's going to be available to the general public.
What a major fuck-up this vaccine situation is.
I'm going to be in Florida in a few weeks - and I'm going to get both
the H1N1 and seasonal vaccine shot while I'm down there.
DevilsPGD
claimed to have wrote:
>DevilsPGD wrote:
>
>> > As has happened in previous years, supplies of vaccines that are
>> > made in Canada by subsidiaries of US companies are being diverted
>> > to supply the US market.
>>
>> A swing and a miss. I work for a US company, and part of our
>> conference call yesterday was discussing the H1N1 vaccine, most
>> of the griping being that the company offering to pay for
>> vaccinations isn't very useful since unless you're in a high
>> risk group you can't qualify anyway.
>
>Your statement above is almost incoherent. I'm not really sure what
>point you're making.
You trimmed the part of your statement where you look silly.
| As a result, ALL Americans (regardless of risk catagory) have been able
| to get the vaccine several weeks
This simply isn't the case, many Americans simply cannot get the vaccine
regardless of willingness to pay., as evidenced by the conference call
full of people yesterday, many of whom had their children vaccinated but
were unable to get their own.
As a result of the ongoing supply issues, the company extended the
period of time in which they'll cover the full cost of the shot.
None of this would be necessary if the vaccine were actually available
to everyone in the US.
Warren Oates
> I'm going to be in Florida in a few weeks - and I'm going to get both
> the H1N1 and seasonal vaccine shot while I'm down there.
Hope you don't get the swine flu before then. Although, if you're normal
and healthy it's apparently not worse than a normal flu, passes in a few
days.
Alan Illeman
> OldHobo wrote:
>
>>> Damn socialized medicine. Horrible, just horrible.
>>
>> Yeah? Well have a look at the line-ups in the States!
>
> At least the US has all the vaccine doses it needs. They are giving
> it to everyone down there.
>
> But here in Ontario, all of a sudden we've got a critical shortage -
> because all of our pre-assigned doses are being diverted to the USA.
>
> And as far as the regular (seasonal) flu shot - good luck getting one.
> No idea when it's going to be available to the general public.
I had my regular flu shot in September, from my 'family doctor'.
Some Guy
> >> A swing and a miss. I work for a US company, and part of our
> >> conference call yesterday was discussing the H1N1 vaccine, most
> >> of the griping being that the company offering to pay for
> >> vaccinations isn't very useful since unless you're in a high
> >> risk group you can't qualify anyway.
> >
> > Your statement above is almost incoherent. I'm not really sure
> > what point you're making.
>
> You trimmed the part of your statement where you look silly.
I included your full statement, and you are still avoiding answer my
question regarding it and the point it's trying to make.
> | As a result, ALL Americans (regardless of risk catagory) have
> | been able to get the vaccine several weeks
>
> This simply isn't the case, many Americans simply cannot get the
> vaccine regardless of willingness to pay., as evidenced by the
> conference call full of people yesterday, many of whom had
> their children vaccinated but were unable to get their own.
http://www.flu.gov/individualfamily/vaccination/index.html
=======================
The Seasonal Flu Vaccine and the H1N1 Flu Vaccine
The seasonal flu vaccine and the H1N1 flu vaccine are separate
vaccinations. A seasonal vaccine is distributed routinely every year,
the H1N1 flu vaccine has been developed and produced for the 2009 flu
season.
It is anticipated that seasonal flu and H1N1 flu vaccines
may be administered on the same day.
Individuals are encouraged to get both vaccines as soon
as possible.
=======================
It *was* the policy in the US to allow *anyone* to get the H1N1 vaccine
- not just kids or prego women. During the first rounds of vaccination
clinics in the US, the general public did get in line and were given the
vaccine.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/281281
=======================
October 29
With the Obama administration coming under fire for failing to deliver
adequate swine flu vaccinations for the American public, Novartis
announces its intention to supply 30 million more doses.
The H1N1 swine flu virus has been a source of headaches for the Obama
administration, as shortages in vaccine dosages have been prompting
calls for the federal government to do more to protect the American
population.
While the production shortages have been caused by delays from vaccine
manufacturers, the issue has begun to cause an erosion in the public's
confidence that the Obama camp can deliver the needed vaccines on a
massive scale.
Novartis announced on Thursday its intention to deliver 30 million more
doses to the United States by the end of November.
To date, the U.S. has received roughly 23 million doses from Novartis,
representing just 51 percent of the vaccine dosages promised to the U.S.
by mid-October.
Earlier this week, President Obama declared the H1N1 swine flu virus a
national emergency. The swine flu virus has been associated with more
than 1,000 deaths so far in the U.S. alone.
========================
So the shortage of the vaccine is impacting the US vaccination program,
in spite of stripping Canada of the doses that were promised and
pre-ordered by the Canadian and Provincial gov'ts.
I wonder how those Canadians that work in the plants in Quebec feel that
they're making doses of the H1N1 vaccine that are being diverted to the
USA instead of going to Canadians.
> As a result of the ongoing supply issues, the company extended
> the period of time in which they'll cover the full cost of the
> shot.
>
> None of this would be necessary if the vaccine were actually
> available to everyone in the US.
http://www.ewashtenaw.org/government/departments/public_health/ph_fluclinics.html
===================
H1N1 Vaccine Cost
The H1N1 vaccine is free at public clinics. Public Health will not be
charging an administration fee.
Seasonal Flu Vaccine Cost (Cash only):
Flu Shot = $20
Preservative-free flu shot (ages 6 - 35 months) = $20
Medicaid is accepted (Straight Medicaid, Midwest, and BlueCaid) - you
must bring your card. Medicare part B is accepted, but participants must
bring their Medicare card and driver's license (or other ID). We are
unable to bill private insurance but we will provide you with a receipt.
=================
All doses of the H1N1 vaccine being administered in the USA are *FREE* -
*No Cost*. It is not being administered in the US by private groups or
individuals (drug stores) and possibly not even being made available to
private doctors. It is being made available to hospital systems for
administration to their patient-care staff.
I don't think that Canadian / Ontario hospitals are being given any
doses for their own patient-care people in Canada / Ontario (many nurses
are complaining that they have to line up for hours with crying children
in the public clinics and it's a waste of time for them).
The seasonal flu vaccine will cost $10 to $25 in the US depending where
you get it (public clinic, grocery or drug store, etc).
There is not much press being given to the stupid way these Ontario
public clinics are being held. The fact that there's some stupidly-long
paperwork to fill out just before you get your shot is not being
reported, along with the reason why they don't make the paperwork
available for you to fill out at home before you get in line.
Some Guy
> > I'm going to be in Florida in a few weeks - and I'm going to
> > get both the H1N1 and seasonal vaccine shot while I'm down
> > there.
>
> Hope you don't get the swine flu before then.
I saw my family doctor this past week to get a prescription refill and
to look at a sty in my eye.
I told her that in three weeks I'd be attending the American Heart
Association conference in Orlando and I'd be exposed to thousands of
cardiologists, surgeons and other health-care professional from all over
the world during the 4-day event, along with suffering through countless
lines at airports exposed to god-knows-what.
I told her that I would like to get the H1N1 shot. She told me that the
local health unit (which acts like the vaccine control god) was not
making it available to family doctors. I suspected that was a lie, and
later found out that most family doctors elected not to obtain the
vaccine because of these reasons:
1) The doses were being alloted in batches of 500 units, and most family
practices don't have refrigerators large enough (if they have any at
all) to store the doses - or they did not want to buy (?) or obtain them
in such a large quantity.
2) Family doctors are paid $8 per vaccination by Ohip. They simply
don't want to book appointments for such a low payback.
3) The paperwork that is accompanying this H1N1 vaccine seems to be
significantly more than what is normally given for the seasonal flu
shots. There has been no journalistic investigation as to why that is.
Family doctors do not want to have their staff deal with this additional
paperwork burden.
I told my doctor that it was my understanding that in the US, they were
holding clinics for the general public, but here in Ontario it was being
limited to "high-risk" groups. She said that was true, and went on to
say that in other Canadian provinces, that they too were holding general
public clinics. Only Ontario seemed to be rationing the vaccine to
these "high-risk" groups.
I then asked if she could give me a shot of the seasonal vaccine. She
said that they were under orders to only give it to "high risk groups" -
which in that case meant elderly (which I am not). She also said that
Ontario doctors are being told that there is evidence that the H1N1
vaccine might not be effective for someone if they first get the
seasonal vaccine.
> Hope you don't get the swine flu before then.
I don't give a fuck if I get the flu or have it when I'm at the AHA
conference. Attending this conference costs our organization thousands
of dollars, and even if I have to load myself up with pseudafed - I will
be there, and I don't give a fuck if I expose others to H1N1 while I'm
at it. If public health authorities have such a low opinion of my
desire or need to be given the vaccine, then they can deal with the
consequences. If they don't want to include international travellers in
their "high risk" group, then they can go to hell.
Normally, this is the time of year for general public clinics for the
seasonal vaccine.
So now most of us Ontarians are in the position where we will get NO,
_NO_ flu vaccine, PERIOD.
We're being told that it's not good to get the seasonal vaccine before
getting H1N1, and we're being told that there aren't enough doses for us
to even get the H1N1. What a fucking circular argument.
What a crock of stinking horse shit this is, and it's not getting enough
exposure or traction in the press.
Some Guy
> I had my regular flu shot in September, from my 'family doctor'.
My family doctor wouldn't give me the regular flu shot last week.
Apparently I wasn't old enough (I'm between 35 and 50 years old).
Explain that.
Warren Oates
> ===================
> H1N1 Vaccine Cost
>
> The H1N1 vaccine is free at public clinics. Public Health will not be
> charging an administration fee.
>
> Seasonal Flu Vaccine Cost (Cash only):
>
> Flu Shot = $20
> Preservative-free flu shot (ages 6 - 35 months) = $20
>
> Medicaid is accepted (Straight Medicaid, Midwest, and BlueCaid) - you
> must bring your card. Medicare part B is accepted, but participants must
> bring their Medicare card and driver's license (or other ID). We are
> unable to bill private insurance but we will provide you with a receipt.
> =================
>
> All doses of the H1N1 vaccine being administered in the USA are *FREE* -
> *No Cost*. It is not being administered in the US by private groups or
> individuals (drug stores) and possibly not even being made available to
> private doctors. It is being made available to hospital systems for
> administration to their patient-care staff.
You are really full of shit. The top thing about "cost" refers to the
USA, and then you say it's "FREE". Our shots were "free", not part of
OHIP, part of an older "public health" mandate.
> There is not much press being given to the stupid way these Ontario
> public clinics are being held. The fact that there's some stupidly-long
> paperwork to fill out just before you get your shot is not being
> reported, along with the reason why they don't make the paperwork
> available for you to fill out at home before you get in line.
You are really full of shit. The "paperwork" you fill out takes 2
minutes -- name, address, why you're in the advanced shot group
(checkbox), sign the bottom and you get your poke, after about a 15
minute wait. They don't question you; the nurse asks if you've got a
fever or are allergic to eggs. Doesn't even hurt, and I usually cry.
Some Guy
> You are really full of shit. The top thing about "cost" refers to
> the USA, and then you say it's "FREE". Our shots were "free",
> not part of OHIP, part of an older "public health" mandate.
What exactly is / was your original point?
Please clearly restate any points you were making in this thread so that
I can respond to them.
No Ontarian that is or has recieved the H1N1 vaccine has had to pay any
out-of-pocket cost to get it. It's my understanding that that's also
the case in the USA.
That is different than the seasonal flu shot, which is also no-cost in
Ontario but not in the USA unless it's covered by some health plan or
medicaid or medicare (you still might be charged an "administration fee"
in the US).
> You are really full of shit. The "paperwork" you fill out takes 2
> minutes --
There are reports that people waiting in line for hours have complained
that they faced several pages of paperwork that caused unnecessary
additional delays to the whole process, and that they could have filled
them out at home ahead of time.
You have not stated where (in what venue) you obtained your h1n1 shot.
Was it at a public clinic, a private (contracted) nursing service, at a
health care facility (nursing home, hospital) or a doctor's office.
Warren Oates
> There are reports that people waiting in line for hours have complained
> that they faced several pages of paperwork that caused unnecessary
> additional delays to the whole process, and that they could have filled
> them out at home ahead of time.
>
> You have not stated where (in what venue) you obtained your h1n1 shot.
> Was it at a public clinic, a private (contracted) nursing service, at a
> health care facility (nursing home, hospital) or a doctor's office.
It was public clinic, at the local Community Centre, staffed by nurses
and EMS guys. The one the previous day was at the local Legion hall. We
showed up just after noon, not a great idea, but we were poked by one
o'clock (then 15 mins sitting around hoping not to keel over). When we
left, the line-up was considerably shorter. But, yeah, I heard about
5-hour line-ups in Kingston early in the week at a public clinic at a
mall (there's Ontario for you - strip malls, double-doubles and tilley
hats).
There's one only sheet of "paperwork" although, yes, it's foolscap, so
it's "long" for Ontario-ites, I guess, "if it's not Tim Horton's it's
not coffee," right? Anyway, you write your name and address and age, put
one checkmark, sign your name, takes 2 minutes for the mildly literate.
It's all in English too.
They give you a little "log" card that the nurse stamps with the date
and vaccine type and you take home -- you're supposed to get the swine
shot before the regular one. They also hand out information sheets, but
you don't have to take them.
They don't check post codes or ask for a health card or even try to
screen out people who aren't in the target groups and there hasn't been
any talk about "shortages."
Besides which, this is a small town and no one likes me.
> What exactly is / was your original point?
That you are full of shit. You never posted any citations to back up
your claim that vaccine was being diverted to the USA.
DevilsPGD
claimed to have wrote:
>No Ontarian that is or has recieved the H1N1 vaccine has had to pay any
>out-of-pocket cost to get it. It's my understanding that that's also
>the case in the USA.
Your understanding is flat out wrong.
I just spent an hour on a conference call, one of the topics was whether
people who got the H1N1 shot before our company decided to cover the
cost including families would be reimbursed (they would), what paperwork
would be needed (not much), and a couple people tossed the paperwork but
wanted to be reimbursed anyway (they'll be handled one-off)
No one in our group was actually able to get the shot themselves since
it wasn't available to the general public, but rather, was only
available to high risk cases. That included a number of dependants who
had paid to receive the shot, and were now eligible for reimbursement.
It strikes me that people wouldn't be stressing about reimbursement if
it were free, nor would people be complaining about it being restricted
to high risk cases if it were available to everyone who asked.
But hey, just make shit up if you like, it's easier then looking into
what is actually happening.
Warren Oates
DevilsPGD <Death...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
> It strikes me that people wouldn't be stressing about reimbursement if
> it were free, nor would people be complaining about it being restricted
> to high risk cases if it were available to everyone who asked.
>
> But hey, just make shit up if you like, it's easier then looking into
> what is actually happening.
This guy just has some anti-American hard on. I've seen tv news of huge
line-ups for the high-risk cases in the US, and there are reports of
shortages. It's certainly "free" in Ontario, and there haven't been any
long line-ups or shortages around here.
DevilsPGD
<warren...@gmail.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>In article <vql0f596kjk6mkvc1...@4ax.com>,
> DevilsPGD <Death...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>
>> It strikes me that people wouldn't be stressing about reimbursement if
>> it were free, nor would people be complaining about it being restricted
>> to high risk cases if it were available to everyone who asked.
>>
>> But hey, just make shit up if you like, it's easier then looking into
>> what is actually happening.
>
>This guy just has some anti-American hard on. I've seen tv news of huge
>line-ups for the high-risk cases in the US, and there are reports of
>shortages. It's certainly "free" in Ontario, and there haven't been any
>long line-ups or shortages around here.
I was hearing 2-hour waits in Vernon, which isn't fantastic but
honestly, you can wait longer at a walk-in clinic here in Canada or in
the US if you wander in on a bad day, so I have trouble getting too
stressed about it.