Fifth International Conference "SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017"

[Mohan Kharel]

Fifth International Conference SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017 Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self

August 17, 2017 — August 18, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal

www.scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore in collaboration with the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology (NAST), Nepal Academy, Central Department of Biotechnology, Tribhuvan University, and Kathmandu University are organizing the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ during August 17 – 18, 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal. This conference will be organized under the chairmanship of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. (Serving Director, Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture and Science, Princeton, NJ, USA). Conference details can be found at: www.scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017

 

Conference Registration details

The registration details have been given at the conference webpage:

http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/2017/schedConf/registration

 

The last date for early registration is July 10, 2017.

 

Accommodation

Kathmandu is well connected by air. Buses are also available from Delhi, Varanasi, Raxaul, Siliguri, Sunauli (Bhairava), Nepalgunj (near Lucknow). Kathmandu climatic condition during August: Temperature 18 - 28 ⁰C. Accommodation facility will be arranged for all registered delegates arriving from outside Kathmandu valley. Indian delegates do not need VISA. However, they have to carry authentic identity proof.

 

Technical Paper Submission and Proceedings of Science and Scientist – 2017

The organizers invite submission of articles within 5000 words and after a review process the author of selected articles will be intimated for presentation (for those international delegates who cannot come physically to the conference venue an online presentation facility is also arranged) in the conference. All accepted papers will be published in the proceedings of Science and Scientist – 2017. The last date for article submission is 2nd July, 2017.

 

Please submit your article online at the submissions link given in the conference webpage.

http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/2017/schedConf/cfp

 

Conference Theme

The conference will feature leading scientists from Nepal, India and Western countries, who will deliberate on various topics which will be valuable for developing a better understanding of the “hard” problems of science such as the nature and origin of life and the cosmos, the mind-brain connection, artificial intelligence and cognitive biology which is confirming some of the important concepts of life from the Vedantic perspective. The main theme of the conference is “Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self”.

 

Darwinism, or the original theory of evolution proposed by Darwin 150 years ago in his Origin of Species, in which he introduced the idea of natural selection, was laid to rest about a half century ago when it was succeeded by the neo-Darwinian theory involving genetic mutation and natural selection, also known as the modern synthesis. Since then an endless stream of textbooks, courses, media presentations and “genetic toolkits” have been used to indoctrinate students and the public with these ideas causing many to give up their religious conviction in God or the soul as integral to their understanding of life. However, with the advancement of science, especially in the field of biology, more detailed knowledge of the genes and genome have revealed a far more complex dynamic relation between the genome and phoneme and its environment than can be explained by appeal to simple genetic mechanisms. Therefore, French biologist Dr. Didier Raoult concluded:

 

“Genetic research, in particular, must be free to find new models to explain, and enhance, twenty-first-century scientific discovery. Today, Darwin’s theory of evolution is more a hindrance than a help, because it has become a quasi-theological creed that is preventing the benefits of improved research from being fully realized.”

 

Descartes laid the philosophical groundwork for the modern scientific period by separating subjective cognition from objective bodies, thereby also dividing epistemology from ontology reducing knowing to indifferent “observation.” This is the perspective of consciousness and its object, of which material science only imperfectly studies the object. In reality these two are not separated but dialectically related and sublated in the higher comprehending original unity of self-consciousness. Physical scientists fail to study these higher categories of reality and are therefore left with an incomplete understanding of a mere superficial nature that is inadequate to comprehend the core truth. But scientific, rational inquiry will not stop until a comprehensive idea is reached that is coherent with the full range of our knowledge of life. That spectrum of knowledge is not circumscribed merely by chemistry, physics and mathematics. Thus Vedānta-sūtra advises, that you will have to continue your search, athāto brahma jijñāsā, until you reach brahma, the underlying spiritual source, janmādy asya yatah, the fountainhead where all inquiry will reach its purpose. Then beyond knowledge Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will guide us to the ultimate search – raso vai saḥ, the search for our highest fulfillment, sweetness and love.

 

Modern science, or inquiry into the unknown, had its beginnings in the Christian West because of a faith that Reason or rational principles could be found in God’s creation. It is the task of Science and Scientist – 2017 to understand why modern science today has turned away from and failed to comprehend this Reason in the world, that is similar to the nous that Anaxagoras conceived as ruling the world. Eclipses of the Sun were once predicted using the geocentric epicycles of Ptolemy. They are now described in terms of the heliocentric orbits of Copernicus. Some ancients knew that they could chase away the Moon dog from eating the Sun god whenever they would beat their gongs. Each of these examples have something correct or confirming about them even though they imagine different realities corresponding to them. Newton’s conception of the solar system included God as necessary to guide the alchemical vitality that was intrinsic to the order and movement in the universe. The mathematical bones of Newton’s Principia were abstracted by modern physics and converted into a mechanical model of the universe. The apparently same corresponding observations were used to validate both theories although they referred to very different imagined realities. A map corresponds to an actual terrain and can help one navigate one’s way through the real terrain depending on its accuracy. However, the map can never be considered a substitute for the actual terrain since a two dimensional visual map can never represent the lived actuality that is experienced in a real terrain. A reflection of reality in a mirror may accurately depict the objects being reflected, but one who makes a journey “through the looking glass” will not discover the real world but a wonderland of mere exaggerated imaginations like Lewis Carroll’s Alice did. Atomic Theory and Quantum Theory provide imagined wonderlands that possess some observations or correspondence with true reality. To some degree each is logical, self-consistent and complete, although Gödel would object to either being at the same time consistent and complete.

 

If we carefully consider what science is doing here, we discover that anthropocentric or egocentric conceptions of reality – reality as it is “for us” or for me – are being erected in place of true reality as it is “by itself and for itself.” In other words, a subjective conception/theory that is “for us” is being erected as a reality “in and for itself” yet is actually opposed to objective reality as it is in and for itself. It seeks and has some correspondence with true reality and if the subjective conception corresponds with the objective reality the truth is considered to have been reached. This is called the correspondence theory of truth. However, there are problems with this as we noted above, in that different theories may have some correspondence with objective observations and yet still refer to different imagined realities. The real problem arises when these different Idols of the Mind [Man-made images/ideas/conceptions that are for us in our subjectivity] are presumed to be outwardly objective and venerated as the True Reality [Reality “as it is” or “by itself and for itself”]. Explanations consist of descriptions in terms of the chosen theories assumed as real, even though they are abstractions from the true reality. Because they are abstractions, they never comprehend the concrete reality they merely represent.

 

Generally the struggle of Science is an outcome of the thinking which never considered the possibility that the logic of reality could actually be contradictory by nature. However in Quantum Physics, it is experimentally observed that subatomic particles display both wave and particle behavior. This implies a contradictory feature is contained in the same object. Similarly in biology, the idea of the integration or unity of consciousness is essential if one wants to comprehend what the true idea of consciousness represents. Science has learned that it cannot ignore the role of the conscious scientist in its exploration of reality even though the realization is still in a very primitive stage as might be expected for any beginner.

The Sri Isopanishad explains that the Complete Whole can produce complete wholes from itself without losing its completeness. Absolute has no restriction as to how many wholes it can produce out of itself. The only restriction comes from the finite awareness and thinking of a finite intellect that tries to determine what the Absolute can or cannot do. The Absolute must always be the result of pure reason based on logic and evidence of an unbiased nature that is not influenced by one-sided beliefs and prejudices.

 

‘Science and Scientist – 2017’ aims at highlighting the fact that modern scientific research and development seem to be leading to a detente between science and the more spiritual ideas of soul and God as found in all world religions. The progress of science continues to leave behind old and outworn ideas and embrace more comprehensive ones that may more adequately express life and its origin. The Spiritual concepts can help modern science to explore the reality of a spiritual conscious self as the foundation of life and all the questions of origin of life and evolution should be viewed from a more spiritual concept. To judge good and bad by our self-centered perspectives will not bring us closer to Truth but entangle us further in the misconception of separate interest. Withdrawing from reality to be with one’s subjective thought alone, is a detachment from the substantial content of True Reality and becomes a conceit or superiority to it. This type of freedom from the content must be given up, and instead of arbitrarily directing the content of one’s own thought one’s freedom should be sunk into and pervade the content of reality, letting thought be directed and controlled by Reality’s own proper nature of which our essential selves are but a part and manifestation. We do not lose anything thereby except our false sense of self [false ego], but rather gain our true identity and real freedom. Free agency does not reside in us as separated from reality, but within true reality itself in which we participate. The comparative studies of different ideas are essential and it will educate and enlighten Science like never before. Religion teaches all to surrender to God, the Supreme Reality, from Whom reason and wisdom originate. Wisdom is not a property of the universe, although we find life and intelligence in Nature. It is a quality of a Person, the Divine Personality of Godhead. Just as consciousness and intelligence pervade our body’s activities, so God’s Personal energy pervades and forms the whole Reality with life and intelligence. Not only does religion teach surrender of our false egos to the true Reality of God, but also teaches us how to learn by attending to revelation of the truth in order to know it, rather than encouraging the tendency impose and project one’s self imaginings onto reality, taking oneself as a separate subjective agent against a passive objectivity that lacks its own agency and ability to reveal itself. Reality as possessing personal agency can reveal Godself to us if we adopt the attentive patience that allows the veils of self-centered egotism to dissolve by practice of meditation, surrender and service. Reality is by itself and for itself, means that the Absolute (God) is its own origin and has its own purposes for itself. 

We are looking forward for your early response and active participation in Science and Scientist - 2017 at Kathmandu, Nepal. Thanking you. Your sincerely, Prof. Mohan Kharel Central Department of Biotechnology Tribhuvan University, Kathmandu, Nepal

[Swami Viswasananda]

Congratulations

And

CELEBRATIONS

Good for you

Dr Swami Viswasananda
ANANTA LINGA DEVA STHAN
DADHIKOT : BHAKTAPUR
NEPAL
+977-98132-95589
INDIA
+91-8928-47-8198

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----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2016
August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Thank you very much Prof. Kharel for the invitation of "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017". I have gone through the Conference theme, It has been remarkably designed.

I wish all the Success for this conference.

With regards  

--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2016
August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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Dr Shilpi Saxena, (Chemical Science)

Women Scientist-DST

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

[Binod Anand]

Thank you very much Prof. Mohan  for the invitation of "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017". I have gone through the Conference theme, It has been designed well.

I will participate in this meeting and would like to contribute a paper on  Science and Sprituality: A vedic perspective.

With regards  

Binod Anand

Chief Advisor

Rastriya Kisan Progresseive Association

+91-9767561212

With sincere Regards.!

BINOD ANAND

First they  will Laugh on you then they will threaten you and then they will follow you.
                                                                                                                GANDHI...........

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (mohankh...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

[sampoornanand jha]

Respected Prof M Kharel

Thank you very much for the invitation for "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017". 

I wish all the Success for this conference.

With regard

 Dr S Jha

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[puttu kulkarni]

Dear Sir,

Thanks for the information.

I  will participate in this meeting and would like to contribute a paper on  Body, Mind and Consciousness.

With regards

Puttu Kulkarni

"Shambhu Nilay"

MELINAKERI-HEGDE - 581 330

KUMTA(Karnataka)

9448774920

On Monday, 10 April 2017 5:24 PM, Binod Anand <binod...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you very much Prof. Mohan  for the invitation of "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017". I have gone through the Conference theme, It has been designed well.

I will participate in this meeting and would like to contribute a paper on  Science and Sprituality: A vedic perspective.

With regards  

Binod Anand

Chief Advisor

Rastriya Kisan Progresseive Association

+91-9767561212

With sincere Regards.!

BINOD ANAND

First they  will Laugh on you then they will threaten you and then they will follow you.
                                                                                                                GANDHI...........

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (mohankh...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Science and Scientist - 2017

[Istikhar Ali]

Thank you very much Prof. Kharel for the invitation of "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017". It will be very helpful for us.

Thank you.

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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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[Dhirendra Sharma]

Dear Prof. Kharel:  In 21st century, evolving globalisation Space Age,  the International Science  and Scientists Conference- 2017, can provide scientific -cultural mantra  for the future generation. But your  one-dimentional pre-condition 
suggests  that  you  aim to endorse a specific Theological belief system of the ancient  Indian scientists ( Rishis).

E.g.,  you say.." confirming some of the important concepts of life from the Vedantic perspective. The main theme of the conference is “Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self”,

and that ..."  Physical scientists fail to study these higher categories of reality ..The Vedānta-sūtra advises, .. athāto brahma jijñāsā, until you reach brahma, the underlying spiritual source,
 janmādy asya yatah, the fountainhead where all inquiry will reach its purpose...."
-------------------

 

I  am Shastri in Nyaaya( Logic),  Nyaaya-Tirtha,  and     Ph.D.,  University of London(1960),“The Paradox of Negative Judgment.”  In General Physics: How do we know: the Dark Matter = the Absence  of  Matter (Reality) and Existence of  Non-Entity.

I suggest we keep the discourse open for different paradigmatic views as

the Upanishadic Rishi says:

:  Ekam Sad-Vipraha bahudha vadanti.

   TRUTH IS ONE BUT  INTERPRETENDED  DIFFERENTly BY  SCHOLARS.

Regards,

Dhirendra Sharma

 

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Istikhar Ali <istikh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you very much Prof. Kharel for the invitation of "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017". It will be very helpful for us.

Thank you.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Online_Sadhu_Sanga+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

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--

Insaan-ko, Insaan-se ho Bhai-chaara, Yehi hai Paigaam Hamara!

Dhirendra Sharma

Centre for Science Policy/Concerned
Scientists & Philosophers,
"Nirmal-Nilay", Dehradun 248009 (India).
+(0135) 2736027.Mob. 989788 3741
http://psaindia.infotechlogic.com/

[Somenath Chatterjee]

Many thanks for the information about the International conference on Science and Scientist 2017. Concept is encouraging and it will may be a platform where an exchange of information regarding the bridging between Science and Philosophy will be well-addressed. 

Thanks all,

With kind regards,

Dr. Chatterjee

Dr. Somenath Chatterjee, Ph. D.
____________________________________________________________

Institute Address:
Professor,
E&C Engg. Dept, and CMSNT (ICNTAA),
Sikkim Manipal Institute of Technology,
Sikkim Manipal University,
Majitar, Sikkim- 737136

Cell: 9804736338 / 9831403652

web: http://smit.smu.edu.in/viewpage.php?t=h&c=FACULTY_SOMENATH%20CHATTERJEE

URL: http://yuekuo.tamu.edu/Somenath%20Chatterjee.htm

Pls. visit: http://scholar.google.co.in/citations?user=6n7TCJIAAAAJ&hl=en

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[Dr Uma Banerjee]

Thanks for this information and invitation. 

1. Does the registration fees include accommodation changes also? 

2. Is Prof. Ashok Mukherjee from AIIMS, New Delhi also be a speaker? 

Regards

UB

Sent from my iPad

Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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[Dr. Shashi Kant Pafhak]

Many many thanks for the information about the International conference on Science and Scientist 2017. Concept is encouraging and it will help us to understand the life concepts beyond earth.

Thanks all,

With kind regards,

Dr Shashi Kant Pathak H.O.D.Zoology Bahera Colllege Bahera, Benipur,, L.N. M.U. Darbhanga  Bihar

 &

Dr Veena Mishra  Associate Professor in Sanskrit Sahitya, Dr. R.M. Adarsh Sanskrit College,Muzaffarpur.

 

--

Insaan-ko, Insaan-se ho Bhai-chaara, Yehi hai Paigaam Hamara!

Dhirendra Sharma

Centre for Science Policy/Concerned
Scientists & Philosophers,
"Nirmal-Nilay", Dehradun 248009 (India).
+(0135) 2736027.Mob. 989788 3741
http://psaindia.infotechlogic.com/

--

[Mohan Kharel]

Dear Sampoornanand jha sir

This conference is being actualized  because of tireless effort of Dr Bhakti Niskam Shanta and Dr Bhakti Vijan Muni who have come here in Nepal last week and scheduled the program to be held in Kathmandu in August 18-19, 2017.

Let me utilize this occasion to request you for an article addressing the theme of conference, if possible.

Thank you

Mohan Kharel 

  

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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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[BASU Banerjee]

Nice to Know, it is a good idea. Look forward for invitation and attend as senior faculty or chair the session

Regards

Dr.B.D.Banerjee
Professor & Lab Incharge

Honorary Visiting Professor, CHST, IIEST, Shibpur, India

Full Member SOT (US), Member ISSX (US) and EACR (UK),

Life Member IIS, SOT (India), ISC, IACR and SAR
Environmental Biochemistry & Molecular Biology Laboratory
Department of Biochemistry, Lab No. 237/ 2nd Floor
University College of Medical Sciences & GTB Hospital,

University of Delhi,Dilshad Garden,Delhi-110095, INDIA

Staff Advisor (Physical Education), UCMS

Chairman, Research Project Advisory Committee, UCMS

Lead Assessor, NABL, Quality Management system

& Former Head
Deptt. of Medical Biochemistry
Faculty of Medical Sciences, University of Delhi 
Delhi-110007, INDIA 
Mobile: 09868835502
Off: 011-22135362

Res: M-32, Ground Floor, C.R. Park

New Delhi-110019
Ph: 011-41038094

---

From: online_sa...@googlegroups.com <online_sa...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dr Uma Banerjee <umaba...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 1:16 PM
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Fifth International Conference "SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017"

 

[Mohan Kharel]

Dear Binid Anand ji

It is nice to hear that you are interested to participate in the Fifth Conference Science and Scientist 2017 that is going to be held in Kathmandu in August 18-19, 2017.  Since this age utmostly urging to find totality of truth thereby understanding both science and spiritualism wholistically, participation in such conferences is praiseworthy.   Credit goes to Bhakti Madhav Puri Maharaj,  Bhakti Niskam Shanta ji and Bhakti Vijan Muni ji  for arousing this spirit among the intellectuals of the world. We look forward to your arrival. Thank you.

Mohan Kharel

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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017

[Mohan Kharel]

Dear Dr Shilpi Saxena.

Thank you for well wish for the success of the Conference. Last week Dr Bhakti Niskama Shanta and Dr Bhakti Vijnana Muni came here in Kathmandu and finalize the program, hence credit goes to them. As theme  of Science and Scientists  is quite important subject for the current age, it is definitely nice idea to encourage seminar such as like this.  We look forward your paper as well as participation, if possible.

Thank you

Mohan Kharel 

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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear Dr. Uma Banerjee

Namaskar.

Thank you for your interest in our upcoming Fifth International Conference "Science and Scientist - 2017", which will be held during 18-19 August, 2017 (please note that by mistake the conference dates were sent as 17-18 August, 2017). 

1. Conference Registration Fees include accommodation charges and further details about conference venue can be found on the link: Accommodation. 

2.Prof. A.K. Mukhopadhyay will be joining the event as one of the important speakers. We will be very happy if you can also join us in this event.

Registration 'Science and Scientist' annual conference series is the premier forum for understanding the limitations ...

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta

On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 10:01 PM, Dr Uma Banerjee <umaba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for this information and invitation. 

1. Does the registration fees include accommodation changes also? 

2. Is Prof. Ashok Mukherjee from AIIMS, New Delhi also be a speaker? 

Regards

UB

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 11, 2017, at 12:24 AM, Somenath Chatterjee <some...@gmail.com> wrote:

Many thanks for the information about the International conference on Science and Scientist 2017. Concept is encouraging and it will may be a platform where an exchange of information regarding the bridging between Science and Philosophy will be well-addressed. 

Thanks all,

With kind regards,

Dr. Chatterjee

Dr. Somenath Chatterjee, Ph. D.
____________________________________________________________

Institute Address:
Professor,
E&C Engg. Dept, and CMSNT (ICNTAA),
Sikkim Manipal Institute of Technology,
Sikkim Manipal University,
Majitar, Sikkim- 737136

Cell: 9804736338 / 9831403652

web: http://smit.smu.edu.in/viewpage.php?t=h&c=FACULTY_SOMENATH%20CHATTERJEE

URL: http://yuekuo.tamu.edu/Somenath%20Chatterjee.htm

Pls. visit: http://scholar.google.co.in/citations?user=6n7TCJIAAAAJ&hl=en

Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist. org/harmonizer
 

Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist. org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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[Dr Uma Banerjee]

Dear Dr.BN Shanta,

Namaskar

Thank you very much for your response. This conference is quite interesting and I wanted to attend it earlier also but some how , it did not happen then . Yes, I want to attend this one  and probably may present a paper on my subjective experience on telepathy. 

Prof. A Mukherjee is one of my junior ( only age wise) colleagues and I am quite influenced by his theoretical proposition and in depth knowledge and experiences.

I am a retired Prof of Microbiologist from AIIMS . Fortunately got initiated by Sarada Mission , Dakhineswar, Kolkata, West Bengal, India.

Learnt various type of Yoga and Meditation techniques from different organizations . As a regular practitioner of pranayama and meditation, experienced excellent effect of these in health and disease. Presently involved in various social services and promoting Yoga and Meditation as complementary support for wellness and various disease process, particularly in elders.

I will be thankful if I gate a chance to attend this conference. 

Regards

UB

Sent from my iPad

August 18—19, 2017

[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Thank you very much Prof. Kharel for your nice response. I’ll try my best to attend this conference and I also wish to present a paper.  I want to express my deep gratitude for Sripad B. Madhava Puri, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta and Dr. Bhakti Vijnana Muni who made possible a platform for us to understand the Highest Truth in very precise manner. This forum is just like a 'Spark in the Dark' for the person like me who was wandering in the search of right knowledge about the 'Absolute Truth'.

Thank you very much for providing this opportunity

With regards

Shilpi Saxena, Ph.D.

Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear Dr. Uma Banerjee

Namaskar.

Thanking you for elaborating your background and expressing your sincere interest in the event "Science and Scientist - 2017". You are welcome to submit your paper online.

Call for Papers

'Science and Scientist' annual conference series is the premier forum for understanding the limitations ...

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta 

[Mohan Kharel]

Dear Dr Dhirendra Sharma

Your statement "TRUTH IS ONE BUT  INTERPRETENDED  DIFFERENTly BY  SCHOLARS" seems  perfectly correct. To  "one truth" everybody has agreed. With regard to the "different interpretation to it  by scholars"  would be, I guess, will be gradually narrowed down,  the more we new sincere scholars take  wholistic approach. Since Science and Scientist is meant for it, this forum will, I guess, enable us to arrive in a juncture from where we can start seeing  the truth more clearly.

Thank you for your interest to the upcoming conference.

Sincerely yours

Mohan Kharel

     

--

Insaan-ko, Insaan-se ho Bhai-chaara, Yehi hai Paigaam Hamara!

Dhirendra Sharma

Centre for Science Policy/Concerned
Scientists & Philosophers,
"Nirmal-Nilay", Dehradun 248009 (India).
+(0135) 2736027.Mob. 989788 3741
http://psaindia.infotechlogic.com/

--

[Deepak Chopra]

My take today 

https://www.facebook.com/DeepakChopra/videos/10154527742465665/

Deepak Chopra MD

2013 Costa Del Mar Road

Carlsbad, CA 92009

Chopra Foundation

Jiyo

Chopra Center for Wellbeing

 

 

 

August 18—19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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[priyedarshi jetli]

Mohan,

If the holistic approach is the correct approach and a piecemeal specialized analytic detailed approach is the incorrect approach, then you would have a paradox as the holistic approach would not be holistic but exclusive. Science, on the whole, would not progress, if it wasn't for greater and greater specialization. Yet, there is an objective of the unity of science even with specialization. But in no way can specialization be marginalized at the cost of holism.

Priyedarshi

August 18—19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.
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[T. Sripathy .]

Prof.Mohan Kharel,

Thank you very much Prof. Mohan  for the invitation of "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017". I would like to present a poster paper on'Study of Agnihothra'.

With regards  

Prof.T.Sripathy

Bangalore University

India

9844129885

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2016

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 

Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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[Dr.D.R. M]

--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference

[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

 

Your email content is reflecting two gross ways for understanding, one is mainly for Objective approach and other is Subjective.

 

From a purely professional level Science would not progress if it will not approached with specialization. But we need objective approach only for our livelihood but after achieving our professional positions like Professor and Scientist we also need wholistic approach and this approach is not exclusive. What way we can do real good to our true being is also a part of real scientific study. Analytical (Objective) study and theoretical (Subjective) study both should go together then only we could understand the whole reality.

 

How science can be wholistic if it excludes the study of Scientist (soul) and souls of all souls (Supreme God)? And as far as I know this is also the main purpose of ‘Science and Scientist-2017’ Conference: http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017

 

We as finite being cannot understand and represent the Whole that accommodate everything in it. Only Absolute can Harmonize everything. Therefore, we have to change our concept from self-centered exploitation to the God-centered dedication. One process is to find the root and next process to water the root (Srimad Bhagavad-Gita 5.4).

 

I am planning to submit a paper for this conference and would like to present the same if accepted. Hope that you and other list members of this group can also join this event and we can have some fruitful dialogue at Kathmandu during the conference.

 

With regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (mohankh...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist. org/harmonizer
 

Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist. org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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--

Insaan-ko, Insaan-se ho Bhai-chaara, Yehi hai Paigaam Hamara!

Dhirendra Sharma

Centre for Science Policy/Concerned
Scientists & Philosophers,
"Nirmal-Nilay", Dehradun 248009 (India).
+(0135) 2736027.Mob. 989788 3741
http://psaindia.infotechlogic.com/

--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
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Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017

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Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Prof. T. Sripathy,

I would also like to submit a paper for Science and Scientist - 2017 conference that is planned to be held in Kathmandu during 18-19 August. I am preparing a paper on ‘Thermodynamics Challenge to the Materialistic View of Origin of Biological Systems’. As a chemist I feel that materialistic origin of life is incompatible with the empirically observed facts of thermodynamics. Without any intervention thermodynamics will not allow the long chain bio-molecules to self-organize and beyond that a cell is simply inconceivable purely following a physicochemical route. There is no scientific justification to teach and spend public money on the projects that deal with material origin of life. I will be very happy If I got the opportunity to be a part of this ‘Science and Scientist-2017’ International Conference and would like to share some of these ideas.

I read your email and came to know that you are going to present on ‘Study of Agnihothra’. I am very much interested to know about Agnihothra. Can you please explain something about it?

With regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

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Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
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Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
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[priyedarshi jetli]

Shilpi,

Many, including some in this group do not accept the objective-subjective distinction as you describe it and hold it. I do not understand how you jump from this distinction to holism. In the holistic perspective the sujective-objective distinction is perhaps dissolved. Before you talk about the soul, which you simply assume exists, you must in some way establish its existence and not simply assume it. Otherwise there can be no debate on whether or not the soul exists. And these debates have been there in the history of Indian philosophy as I have given evidence of it with the Lokyata perspective. All these perspectives have been around. I am saying nothing new.

Priyedarshi

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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Priyedarshi ji,

It’s nice to be in touch with you again. Thanks for your reply.

In Indian philosophy there is no prominent objective-subjective duality because we do not deny the fact that apart from gross body, mind, consciousness, soul and God do exist. We do not deny the existence of subtle plane just because we do not sense them by our gross senses. But somehow Western thought and its brainchild modern science keep on denying the existence of any reality beyond gross body.

I can establish you through the most authentic and scientific ‘Vedic literatures’. Vedic literatures have attracted the attention of some world’s finest scientific minds such as Erwin Schrodinger, Robert Oppenheimer, Albert Einstein and many more.

Some references from Vedic Vedic literature about the Existence of soul:

[Srimad Bhagavad-gita(Bg)Chapter 2.16,17, 20,22,23,24], [Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3.31], [Svetasvatara Upanisad 5.9], [Katha Upanisad 1.2.20]. Please read in detail if you really want to know the existence of soul.

I want to ask you one question on your comment that I presume the existence of soul. Do you also not presume that you exist? You have used the word "I" many time in your reply. Do you also not presume that "I" exist? What is your prove that "I" exist. If you can know the prove behind "I" then you will naturally get the prove behind soul.

I am seeing that you are discussing much on philosophy and doing real philosophy needs deep thinking and I hope that you will not ask me to prove the existence of thinking. How gross and subtle planes are linked is the question that science and philosophy should discuss and not about to prove of their existence. But many are confused on simple things because of bad education that we are getting from materialistic science and poor philosophy like Lokayata. Lokayata is stated to be the Hindu school where there is "no God, no samsara (rebirth), no karma, no duty, no fruits of merit, no sin (Haribhadrasūri (Translator: M Jain, 1989), Saddarsanasamuccaya, Asiatic Society, OCLC 255495691).

Science and philosophy are not here to confuse us even on simple things. At present science/philosophy are only a medium of making money and do not have any real values and deep spiritual insights. We have to focus on some verses of vedic literature, Vedanta-sutra 1.1.1, Srimad Bhagavatam 1.1.2, and Katha Upanisad 1.3.14, then only we can understand the real purpose of Human life in a right perspective.

It is really good to see so much of nice and insightful discussions on this forum and “Science and Scientist-2017” will be good platform to meet personally with the participants of this forum so that they can clarify the differences that they have on certain issues.

 

Thanks with regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

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[priyedarshi jetli]

Shilpi,

I wish I had your confidence when I was young like you. I still don't have it. But you are obviously in some high level of deep thinking of a philosophical plane to decide that Lokayata is a poor philosophy. One of my senior colleagues, V. P. Verma wrote a book on Indian atheism and won the Birla prize for the book on Hindi. Indian philosophy is rich with diverse schools that are Nastik, do not accept the existence of God. I am afraid you have a very narrow conception of what Indian philosophy is. Indian philosophy on the whole is never dogmatic or doctinaire like you claim it to be. History of atheism is much richer in the history of Indian philosophy than it is in Western philosophy. You would be hard pressed to find atheistic schools in Western philosophy before the 18th century. I have been doing shallow thinking philosophy for 45 years and will continue to do so but I will still not accept the existence of a soul or a non material consciousness. And I am not the only one. There are a lot of inferior to you and shallow thinking philosophers who are in the same boat as I am. In fact, a lot of the concepts of God, Divinity, Theism, and so on which are currently used to spell out some of the Indian texts are imported from the West. The literal meaning of 'Theism' is not there in ancient Indian texts. Unfortunately, a person I admired a lot, and met a few times when I was a child, Radhakrishnan, is partially responsible for the Christianizing of Hinduism and of Indian philosophy. Advaita is not the paradigm of either Hinduism or Indian philosophy as it came much later, at the fag end of when the activity of Indian philosophy with vicious debates among schools and within schools came to an end and since then Indian philosophy has become stagnant as your dogmatic statements clearly indicate.

Priyedarshi

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[VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL]

Priyedarshi quoted :  "I have been doing shallow thinking philosophy for 45 years and will continue to do so but I will still not accept the existence of a soul or a non material consciousness. And I am not the only one. There are a lot of inferior to you and shallow thinking philosophers who are in the same boat as I am:

Vinod  -- What a childish type of statement seems to be borne out of  obstinacy and given in a challenging tone!  This reveals that a person has been holding  some stubborn  view  for the past 45 years and he is throwing  challenge to others  that he is not going to even reconsider his views whatever rational logical arguments, observation and evidence be placed before him. One is free and it should also be free to hold any  view on any aspect. It is the freedom of any person to hold any dogmatic view even out of stubbornness. There are a large no of  such people on this planet having such mindset. But then such people should not  hold the orthodoxic  view that they subscribe to reason, rational logic, observation and evidence and scientific outlook. Holding a dogmatic view on any conception out of sheer stubbornness and  obstinacy  and reason and evidence are not compatible with each other.

Vinod Sehgal

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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

You are right Sir that Indian Philosophy is rich with diverse schools of thoughts, for further reference we can read the details given by (H.H.) Dr B.M. Puri Maharaja in the article “SIDDHANTA” [Advaita, Dvaita, Visisadvaita, Acintya Bheda-Abheda Tattva, Matter, Ego, Maya, Consciousness, Spirit] so that we can understand these subjects more precisely. http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/?download=SIDDHANTA.pdf

There is no conflict between these Schools of thoughts because according to one’s understanding and developing stages of consciousness one adopt a different kind of philosophy. When he/she cross that developmental stages then only one can enter and could understand the next higher kind of stages. In Indian Philosophy there is possibility for everyone to elevate their consciousness by following the different kind of process which is most suitable and soothing according to our present stage. 

Sir, I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings. My intention is not like that. You are much experienced than me. But I thought this is a very good and authentic forum ‘sadhu-sanga’ and we have also a great platform like annual conference of ‘Science and Scientist-2017’. By debating and discussion we can learn so many things from so many learned peoples like you. As a Human being our aim is same “Find the Root and Watering the Root”.

I hope we could have more fruitful discussion during “Science and Scientist-2017” Conference in Kathmandu.

 

Thanks with regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​o​

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[DR. MAHENDRA KUMAR TANEJA]

Thanks

I am interested 

...

[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Vinod ji,

Thanks for your comments. Holding some stubborn views is the attitude that is coming from the fact that the practice of modern materialistic science demands its practitioner that one has to simply overlook the reason, rational logic, observation and evidence and scientific outlook. Otherwise what kind of reason, rational logic, observation and evidence and scientific outlook will support the concepts like material origin of life and evolution of bodies?

 

With regards

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[Soma Basu]

Respected Prof. Mohan Kharel

Central Department of Biotechnology

Tribhuvan University, Kathmandu, Nepal

I would like to present a paper in the 5th International Conference of SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST - 2017.

Thank you for sharing the information.

Best regards,

Dr Soma Basu

Associate Professor

School of Vedic Studies

Rabindra Bharati University

Kolkata 700050, WEST BENGAL, INDIA

August 18—19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear Dr. Soma Basu

Namaskar.

Thank you very much for your interest in our upcoming Fifth International Conference "Science and Scientist - 2017". Please submit your paper online for its review at: http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/2017/schedConf/cfp 

We have received a few inquiries regarding the visa requirements for Indian participants in Science and Scientist - 2017, which will be held at Kathmandu, Nepal during 18-19 December, 2017. We want to inform all of them that Indian delegates do not need VISA for visiting Nepal. However they have to carry authentic identity proof. Instead of using online facility at conference page, Indian delegates also can directly send the conference registration fees by internet banking to the following account:

Our Bank: ICICI Bank 
Branch: Paharganj, New Delhi, India

Account name: SRI CHAITANYA SARASWAT INSTITUTE 
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After transferring the conference registration fees online to the above account please send us your payment details along with Name, Postal Address, Travel Plans, Contact details (must provide your email & phone number) via email to in...@scsiscs.org

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
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Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal

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Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al s.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942 0889.2015.1085138
 
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Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal

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Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j. als.20160601.03
 
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Fifth International Conference
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August 18—19, 2017
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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

By mistake the conference dates were sent as 18-19 December 2017. The conference dates are 18-19 August 2017.

Thanks

I am interested 

August 18, 2017 — August 19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal

www.scsiscs.org/conference/sci enceandscientist/2017

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore in collaboration with the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology (NAST), Nepal Academy, Central Department of Biotechnology, Tribhuvan University, and Kathmandu University are organizing the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ during August 18 – 19, 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal. This conference will be organized under the chairmanship of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. (Serving Director, Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture and Science, Princeton, NJ, USA). Conference details can be found at: www.scsiscs.org/conference /scienceandscientist/2017

August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 

Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist. org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j. als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist. org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist. org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal

http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org /donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942 0889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al s.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942 0889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org /harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org /Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017

...

[Mohan Kharel]

Dear Dr Soma Basu

It is nice to hear that you are willing to participate in up coming Science and Scientist- 2017 that is going to be held in Kathmandu. You are welcome heartily.  In the mean time you may start sending the  article that you want to present in the conference to Shanta or Muni Maharaj, if you have it already, although the dead line for submission is   July 2, 2017.

Thank you

Mohaan Kharel

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAEJ%2BAaG-yODmQ4kJimsSY%2BvM4u4AEQM5fqzX8XGX5iborQsLrg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Soma Basu]

Thank you so much. 

I shall send my article within the time limit. 

Best regards, 

Dr Soma Basu 

...

[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear Dr Mahendra Kumar Taneja

Happy to know that you are also interested in joining this upcoming Science and Scientist 2017 conference at Kathmandu. It will be good to know the different important topics/views that different participants in this event are planning to present so that we can have some discussion on those topics in this Sadhu Sanga egroup platform and it will help us refine and refresh our views. I will send soon some details about the ideas that I am trying to put together in a paper format for this event.

With Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 

Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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[DR.RABIN paramanik]

thanks a lot.we will do the needful.,

regards.,

DR RABIN C.P.BANGALORE 

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Editors]

Dear Dr. Er. Nandanandan Das:

We are happy to know that you are participating in our Fifth International Conference "Science and Scientist - 2017", which will be held at Kathmandu during 18-19 August, 2017. We confirm the receipt of your payment of registration fees on 11th May 2017 towards your participation in "Science and Scientist - 2017". Here are the details that you have asked for:

1. Period and place of session: 18-19 August, 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal

2. Details of topic: Can be found at http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/index/pages/view/ST

3. Registration principle (please note that we have already received your payment for conference registration): Details are mentioned at http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/2017/schedConf/registration

4. Stay Arrangement: Details can be found at  http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/2017/schedConf/accommodation

5. The details of sending paper for the topic of the session: Paper can be submitted online at conference page http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/2017/schedConf/cfp

6. Means of To & Fro from India and back: Kathmandu is well connected by air. Buses are also available from Varanasi, Raxaul, Siliguri, Sunauli (Bhairava), Nepalgunj (near Lucknow)

7. Contact person's details: Dr. B. N. Shanta, Gen. Secretary, Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore, India, Phone: +91-9748906907, Email: b...@scsiscs.org

8. Further more details if any: Indian delegates do not need VISA. However they have to carry authentic identity proof. Please send us your travel plans.

On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 4:37 PM, "'NANDANANDAN DAS' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Sir,

Good morning.

I wish to attend the session to be held in Nepal during August 2017. Pl. inform the following details, which are needed for finalizing my program.

1. Period and place of session.

2. Details of topic

3, Registration principle.

4. stay arrangement.

5. The details of sending paper for the topic of the session..

5. Means of To & Fro from India and back. 

6. Contact person's details.

7. Further more details if any.

Hope the desired particulars can be provided to take decision.  

With regards,

Yours sincerely,

DR. ER. NANDANANDAN DAS                                                                        

DSc (Civil Engineering), D.Litt. (Social Works), PDF (Keisie International University, South Korea),PhD (Road), PhD (Building & Disaster), M.S.W, B.Sc. (Engg), LLB, F.I.E, M.I.R.C, M.I.B.C

Former Secretary, Works, Govt. of Odisha.                                                     

Former Chairman, O.B & C.C

Chairman, People’s Welfare Suggestion Forum                                            

Ex-Director, O.C.C,

Ex-Team Leader, Mott. Mac Donald                                                                 

Ex-Consultant, POSCO-INDIA

Ex-State Quality Monitor (SQM), Odisha

Ph-9437617604, 7205831789                                        

On Sunday, 9 April 2017 2:03 PM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fifth International Conference SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017 Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self

August 18, 2017 — August 19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal

www.scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore in collaboration with the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology (NAST), Nepal Academy, Central Department of Biotechnology, Tribhuvan University, and Kathmandu University are organizing the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ during August 18 – 19, 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal. This conference will be organized under the chairmanship of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. (Serving Director, Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture and Science, Princeton, NJ, USA). Conference details can be found at: www.scsiscs.org/ conference/ scienceandscientist/2017

 

Conference Registration details

The registration details have been given at the conference webpage:

http://scsiscs.org/conference/ index.php/scienceandscientist/ 2017/schedConf/registration

 

The last date for early registration is July 10, 2017.

 

Accommodation

Kathmandu is well connected by air. Buses are also available from Delhi, Varanasi, Raxaul, Siliguri, Sunauli (Bhairava), Nepalgunj (near Lucknow). Kathmandu climatic condition during August: Temperature 18 - 28 ⁰C. Accommodation facility will be arranged for all registered delegates arriving from outside Kathmandu valley. Indian delegates do not need VISA. However, they have to carry authentic identity proof.

 

Technical Paper Submission and Proceedings of Science and Scientist – 2017

The organizers invite submission of articles within 5000 words and after a review process the author of selected articles will be intimated for presentation (for those international delegates who cannot come physically to the conference venue an online presentation facility is also arranged) in the conference. All accepted papers will be published in the proceedings of Science and Scientist – 2017. The last date for article submission is 2nd July, 2017.

 

Please submit your article online at the submissions link given in the conference webpage.

http://scsiscs.org/conference/ index.php/scienceandscientist/ 2017/schedConf/cfp

 

Conference Theme

The conference will feature leading scientists from Nepal, India and Western countries, who will deliberate on various topics which will be valuable for developing a better understanding of the “hard” problems of science such as the nature and origin of life and the cosmos, the mind-brain connection, artificial intelligence and cognitive biology which is confirming some of the important concepts of life from the Vedantic perspective. The main theme of the conference is “Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self”.

 

Darwinism, or the original theory of evolution proposed by Darwin 150 years ago in his Origin of Species, in which he introduced the idea of natural selection, was laid to rest about a half century ago when it was succeeded by the neo-Darwinian theory involving genetic mutation and natural selection, also known as the modern synthesis. Since then an endless stream of textbooks, courses, media presentations and “genetic toolkits” have been used to indoctrinate students and the public with these ideas causing many to give up their religious conviction in God or the soul as integral to their understanding of life. However, with the advancement of science, especially in the field of biology, more detailed knowledge of the genes and genome have revealed a far more complex dynamic relation between the genome and phoneme and its environment than can be explained by appeal to simple genetic mechanisms. Therefore, French biologist Dr. Didier Raoult concluded:

 

“Genetic research, in particular, must be free to find new models to explain, and enhance, twenty-first-century scientific discovery. Today, Darwin’s theory of evolution is more a hindrance than a help, because it has become a quasi-theological creed that is preventing the benefits of improved research from being fully realized.”

 

Descartes laid the philosophical groundwork for the modern scientific period by separating subjective cognition from objective bodies, thereby also dividing epistemology from ontology reducing knowing to indifferent “observation.” This is the perspective of consciousness and its object, of which material science only imperfectly studies the object. In reality these two are not separated but dialectically related and sublated in the higher comprehending original unity of self-consciousness. Physical scientists fail to study these higher categories of reality and are therefore left with an incomplete understanding of a mere superficial nature that is inadequate to comprehend the core truth. But scientific, rational inquiry will not stop until a comprehensive idea is reached that is coherent with the full range of our knowledge of life. That spectrum of knowledge is not circumscribed merely by chemistry, physics and mathematics. Thus Vedānta-sūtra advises, that you will have to continue your search, athāto brahma jijñāsā, until you reach brahma, the underlying spiritual source, janmādy asya yatah, the fountainhead where all inquiry will reach its purpose. Then beyond knowledge Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will guide us to the ultimate search – raso vai saḥ, the search for our highest fulfillment, sweetness and love.

 

Modern science, or inquiry into the unknown, had its beginnings in the Christian West because of a faith that Reason or rational principles could be found in God’s creation. It is the task of Science and Scientist – 2017 to understand why modern science today has turned away from and failed to comprehend this Reason in the world, that is similar to the nous that Anaxagoras conceived as ruling the world. Eclipses of the Sun were once predicted using the geocentric epicycles of Ptolemy. They are now described in terms of the heliocentric orbits of Copernicus. Some ancients knew that they could chase away the Moon dog from eating the Sun god whenever they would beat their gongs. Each of these examples have something correct or confirming about them even though they imagine different realities corresponding to them. Newton’s conception of the solar system included God as necessary to guide the alchemical vitality that was intrinsic to the order and movement in the universe. The mathematical bones of Newton’s Principia were abstracted by modern physics and converted into a mechanical model of the universe. The apparently same corresponding observations were used to validate both theories although they referred to very different imagined realities. A map corresponds to an actual terrain and can help one navigate one’s way through the real terrain depending on its accuracy. However, the map can never be considered a substitute for the actual terrain since a two dimensional visual map can never represent the lived actuality that is experienced in a real terrain. A reflection of reality in a mirror may accurately depict the objects being reflected, but one who makes a journey “through the looking glass” will not discover the real world but a wonderland of mere exaggerated imaginations like Lewis Carroll’s Alice did. Atomic Theory and Quantum Theory provide imagined wonderlands that possess some observations or correspondence with true reality. To some degree each is logical, self-consistent and complete, although Gödel would object to either being at the same time consistent and complete.

 

If we carefully consider what science is doing here, we discover that anthropocentric or egocentric conceptions of reality – reality as it is “for us” or for me – are being erected in place of true reality as it is “by itself and for itself.” In other words, a subjective conception/theory that is “for us” is being erected as a reality “in and for itself” yet is actually opposed to objective reality as it is in and for itself. It seeks and has some correspondence with true reality and if the subjective conception corresponds with the objective reality the truth is considered to have been reached. This is called the correspondence theory of truth. However, there are problems with this as we noted above, in that different theories may have some correspondence with objective observations and yet still refer to different imagined realities. The real problem arises when these different Idols of the Mind [Man-made images/ideas/conceptions that are for us in our subjectivity] are presumed to be outwardly objective and venerated as the True Reality [Reality “as it is” or “by itself and for itself”]. Explanations consist of descriptions in terms of the chosen theories assumed as real, even though they are abstractions from the true reality. Because they are abstractions, they never comprehend the concrete reality they merely represent.

 

Generally the struggle of Science is an outcome of the thinking which never considered the possibility that the logic of reality could actually be contradictory by nature. However in Quantum Physics, it is experimentally observed that subatomic particles display both wave and particle behavior. This implies a contradictory feature is contained in the same object. Similarly in biology, the idea of the integration or unity of consciousness is essential if one wants to comprehend what the true idea of consciousness represents. Science has learned that it cannot ignore the role of the conscious scientist in its exploration of reality even though the realization is still in a very primitive stage as might be expected for any beginner.

The Sri Isopanishad explains that the Complete Whole can produce complete wholes from itself without losing its completeness. Absolute has no restriction as to how many wholes it can produce out of itself. The only restriction comes from the finite awareness and thinking of a finite intellect that tries to determine what the Absolute can or cannot do. The Absolute must always be the result of pure reason based on logic and evidence of an unbiased nature that is not influenced by one-sided beliefs and prejudices.

 

‘Science and Scientist – 2017’ aims at highlighting the fact that modern scientific research and development seem to be leading to a detente between science and the more spiritual ideas of soul and God as found in all world religions. The progress of science continues to leave behind old and outworn ideas and embrace more comprehensive ones that may more adequately express life and its origin. The Spiritual concepts can help modern science to explore the reality of a spiritual conscious self as the foundation of life and all the questions of origin of life and evolution should be viewed from a more spiritual concept. To judge good and bad by our self-centered perspectives will not bring us closer to Truth but entangle us further in the misconception of separate interest. Withdrawing from reality to be with one’s subjective thought alone, is a detachment from the substantial content of True Reality and becomes a conceit or superiority to it. This type of freedom from the content must be given up, and instead of arbitrarily directing the content of one’s own thought one’s freedom should be sunk into and pervade the content of reality, letting thought be directed and controlled by Reality’s own proper nature of which our essential selves are but a part and manifestation. We do not lose anything thereby except our false sense of self [false ego], but rather gain our true identity and real freedom. Free agency does not reside in us as separated from reality, but within true reality itself in which we participate. The comparative studies of different ideas are essential and it will educate and enlighten Science like never before. Religion teaches all to surrender to God, the Supreme Reality, from Whom reason and wisdom originate. Wisdom is not a property of the universe, although we find life and intelligence in Nature. It is a quality of a Person, the Divine Personality of Godhead. Just as consciousness and intelligence pervade our body’s activities, so God’s Personal energy pervades and forms the whole Reality with life and intelligence. Not only does religion teach surrender of our false egos to the true Reality of God, but also teaches us how to learn by attending to revelation of the truth in order to know it, rather than encouraging the tendency impose and project one’s self imaginings onto reality, taking oneself as a separate subjective agent against a passive objectivity that lacks its own agency and ability to reveal itself. Reality as possessing personal agency can reveal Godself to us if we adopt the attentive patience that allows the veils of self-centered egotism to dissolve by practice of meditation, surrender and service. Reality is by itself and for itself, means that the Absolute (God) is its own origin and has its own purposes for itself. 

We are looking forward for your early response and active participation in Science and Scientist - 2017 at Kathmandu, Nepal. Thanking you. Your sincerely,

Prof. Mohan Kharel Central Department of Biotechnology Tribhuvan University, Kathmandu, Nepal

-- 
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference 

Science and Scientist - 2016

August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org 
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
--- 
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[Ram Deo Pandit Nepal]

A Member of organizing committee "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017"

Sanskrit scholar Janardan Ghimire no more

https://thehimalayantimes.com/kathmandu/mediaperson-janardan-ghimire-no/

Heartfelt condolence.....................

On 9 April 2017 at 13:16, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fifth International Conference SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017 Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self

August 17, 2017 — August 18, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal

www.scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore in collaboration with the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology (NAST), Nepal Academy, Central Department of Biotechnology, Tribhuvan University, and Kathmandu University are organizing the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ during August 17 – 18, 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal. This conference will be organized under the chairmanship of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. (Serving Director, Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture and Science, Princeton, NJ, USA). Conference details can be found at: www.scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017

August 17—18, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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--

Mr.R.D.Pandit

President,

Young Philosophers' Society,

Kathmandu, Nepal

Cell: 9851016229

[Bhakti Vijnana Muni]

Dear friends in Nepal,

It was sad to learn about the untimely passing away of Dr. Janardana Ghimire Ji. We express our sincere appreciation for all the help and contributions of service that he extended for organization of Science and Scientist 2015 as well as Science and Scientist 2017. He had also come to India during Science and Scientist 2014 at Vijayawada, Andhra Pradesh India. He was always working for the promotion of Sanskrit and appreciated the themes of Science and Scientists conference series. He helped us in media outreach as well as introduced us to many important people of Nepal.

We sincerely express our genuine appreciation for all that he had done. Further we also would like to express with all humility that according to the Bhagavad-Gita, the blessed Lord has explained that no one ever dies as a soul. Everyone is a soul (from which consciousness is produced) and an eternal part and parcel of the Lord. A wise man does not lament or become overwhelmed by the passing of the body, which is bound to happen to all who have been born. For example in Bhagavad Gita 2.16, the Blessed Lord expresses to his friend and devotee Arjuna:

nāsato vidyate bhāvo nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ

ubhayor api dṛṣṭo ’ntas tv anayos tattva-darśibhiḥ

 

Translation: Of the changeable, such as the body, there is no everlasting existence; of the everlasting soul, there is no transformation or destruction. Seers of the truth have thus distinguished and analyzed the nature of both eternal reality and temporary illusion.

 

Thus we pray for the happiness of his soul. Moreover due to his service in Science and Scientist series of conferences, he is sure to get some spiritual merit and spiritual progress and that is his real wealth and that will be with him forever. It is expressed by Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada that the Lord never forgets any service performed by a servitor for the satisfaction of the Lord.

 

We express our condolences to the bereaved family members and his friends. Thanking you,

 

Bhaktivijnana Muni, PhD

 

 

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:38 PM, Ram Deo Pandit Nepal <devs...@gmail.com> wrote:

A Member of organizing committee "Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist-2017"

Sanskrit scholar Janardan Ghimire no more

https://thehimalayantimes.com/kathmandu/mediaperson-janardan-ghimire-no/

Heartfelt condolence.....................

On 9 April 2017 at 13:16, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fifth International Conference SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017 Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self

August 18, 2017 — August 19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal

www.scsiscs.org/conference/sci enceandscientist/2017

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore in collaboration with the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology (NAST), Nepal Academy, Central Department of Biotechnology, Tribhuvan University, and Kathmandu University are organizing the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ during August 18 – 19, 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal. This conference will be organized under the chairmanship of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. (Serving Director, Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture and Science, Princeton, NJ, USA). Conference details can be found at: www.scsiscs.org/conference /scienceandscientist/2017

August 18—19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist. org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j. als.20160601.03
 

Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist. org/harmonizer
 

Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist. org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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--

Mr.R.D.Pandit

President,

Young Philosophers' Society,

Kathmandu, Nepal

Cell: 9851016229

--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference

Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.

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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Some of the topics under discussion on this list will also be the topics of our presentation in Science and Scientist - 2017:

1. Science is not Sacrosanct and Science Takes Place Within an Orthodox Tradition

2. Neurology, Phrenology, Astrology - The Problem of Correlationism in Modern Science

3. The Unreasonable Relation of Mathematics to Natural Science

4. One can be a Scientific Skeptic of Evolution Theory

5. Beyond the Modern Monolith of Consciousness

6. The False Elephant and the False Ego

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

On Monday, 8 May 2017 3:57 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dr Mahendra Kumar Taneja

Happy to know that you are also interested in joining this upcoming Science and Scientist 2017 conference at Kathmandu. It will be good to know the different important topics/views that different participants in this event are planning to present so that we can have some discussion on those topics in this Sadhu Sanga egroup platform and it will help us refine and refresh our views. I will send soon some details about the ideas that I am trying to put together in a paper format for this event.

With Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Soma Basu <somab...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you so much. 

I shall send my article within the time limit. 

Best regards, 

Dr Soma Basu 

On 7 May 2017 3:43 pm, "Mohan Kharel" <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dr Soma Basu

It is nice to hear that you are willing to participate in up coming Science and Scientist- 2017 that is going to be held in Kathmandu. You are welcome heartily.  In the mean time you may start sending the  article that you want to present in the conference to Shanta or Muni Maharaj, if you have it already, although the dead line for submission is   July 2, 2017.

Thank you

Mohaan Kharel

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Soma Basu <somab...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Prof. Mohan Kharel

Central Department of Biotechnology

Tribhuvan University, Kathmandu, Nepal

Best regards,

Dr Soma Basu

Associate Professor

School of Vedic Studies

Rabindra Bharati University

Thanks

I am interested 

Fifth International Conference SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017 Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self

August 17, 2017 — August 18, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal

www.scsiscs.org/conference/sci enceandscientist/2017

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore in collaboration with the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology (NAST), Nepal Academy, Central Department of Biotechnology, Tribhuvan University, and Kathmandu University are organizing the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ during August 17 – 18, 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal. This conference will be organized under the chairmanship of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. (Serving Director, Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture and Science, Princeton, NJ, USA). Conference details can be found at: www.scsiscs.org/conference /scienceandscientist/2017

August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Prag

...

--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal

http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist. org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j. als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist. org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist. org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
http://bviscs.org/reports
 
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
 
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
 
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
 
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
 
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to Online_Sadhu_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAKg-0GtmSUuNwFM7Pg95Pmb81sx4zwsKdza2PrGJjPjFJYSXfg%40mail.gmail.com.

[T. Sripathy .]

Dr.Shilpi Saxena,

Thanks for your email. I will send the details in shortly.

Regards

Prof.T.Sripathy

-

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAKg-0GtqsQ6BN6PYCSQ83Zz-1CBzBam5odBGv7yQN%3D6N%2BegaTw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear all Sadhusanga Group Members,

In some of the ongoing discussion in this Forum, 

Priyadarshi Jaitley Ji asked an interesting question in his reply to Avatar Singh https://groups.google.com/d/msg/online_sadhu_sanga/-9GkQS4C8o4/Rv6muFXjAAAJ

*** First, what is the criterion to demarcate the real from the unreal? ***

Priyadarshi Jaitley Ji also had a lot of discussion in recent past about whether there is any real difference between animal and human being. What I feel is that the real for a bacteria is different than that of a fish, with the presumption that they have some concept about what real means. For animals food and other bodily needs, and concepts related to body are only real things. In some humans also we can find the same concept of real. But some elevated humans also try to find "real" beyond body and that may be I think a special ability that human being has. I feel that the demarcation of real from unreal depends on one's advancement and it cannot be same for all.

I read one of the article of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D., published in “Harmonizer” entitled ‘A Unique Insight into the Nature of “Knowing” and of the Concept’, dated September 2010. He wrote that the "Purpose of Hegel’s Phenomenology of Spirit is to demonstrate that is the concept is underlying reality or truth that lies hidden to ordinary knowing. Once the concept is revealed it becomes object of scientific developments in his Encyclopedia of Philosophical Sciences, but because of its absolute nature the concept and its developments are identical while different simultaneously. On the absolute platform opposites are identical in their difference, just as the absolute value of [1] is the same as the absolute value of [-1] in mathematics. To be able to think in terms of absolute knowledge therefore one has to leave the duality of relative knowing or understanding and raise oneself to the level of dialectical unity or Reason”.

In a reply of Vasavada Kashyap Ji to Robert Boyer dated 23 May 2017 in the thread ‘Response to your Question on Bohm’s Theory’ he wrote that …. “As I mentioned in my article, Adi Shankaracharya’s  “Brahm Satyam, Jagat Mithya” sounds good to me. Modern physics already shows the Jagat Mithya, in the sense that the world is made out of fuzzy wave-particle stuff and not illusory rigid material we see around! Physics is not yet at the stage of Brahm Satyam!”

The concept “Brahm Satyam, Jagat Mithya” used by the followers of Adi Sankaracharya, according to this concept we cannot overcome our ignorance by claiming ‘Jagat Mithya’ because we are under illusion and that is true-‘Satyam’. ‘Brahm Satyam’ is also true and we are under illusion is also true.                                       

I like the reply of Mr Robert to Mr kashyap (22 May 2017), he explain about the stages of understanding toward higher states of consciousness with the help of Bohm’s/Hiley theory and Sankhya philosophy from (Vedic literature) Srimad Bhagavatam (canto 3).

In the response of Reply of Mr Robert to Priyedarshi ji (25 May 2017), It is true that acquiring higher knowledge and develop the higher states of Consciousness is the beyond the capacity of humans but it is not lost it is available through the Vedic system.  It is also mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam (4.14.9) and Srimad Bhagavad Gita (18.5) about the procedures by which everyone can be elevated to the spiritual platform and when this is done then people can advance their consciousness and make their lives successful.

Modern Science only studies atoms and molecules, and for scientists "real" means physical and chemical properties of things that they observe around them. But what about life? Is life only a study of physics and chemistry of body of an organism? Or there is something more fundamental reality that is there beyond body? So it is a good concept that Science and Scientist annual event tries to emphasize that the study of Scientist must be included within Science. I think Science should also allow to include some spiritual concepts beyond body to have some real study of life.

With regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta <b...@scsiscs.org> wrote:

Some of the topics under discussion on this list will also be the topics of our presentation in Science and Scientist - 2017:

1. Science is not Sacrosanct and Science Takes Place Within an Orthodox Tradition

2. Neurology, Phrenology, Astrology - The Problem of Correlationism in Modern Science

3. The Unreasonable Relation of Mathematics to Natural Science

4. One can be a Scientific Skeptic of Evolution Theory

5. Beyond the Modern Monolith of Consciousness

6. The False Elephant and the False Ego

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

On Monday, 8 May 2017 3:57 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dr Mahendra Kumar Taneja

Happy to know that you are also interested in joining this upcoming Science and Scientist 2017 conference at Kathmandu. It will be good to know the different important topics/views that different participants in this event are planning to present so that we can have some discussion on those topics in this Sadhu Sanga egroup platform and it will help us refine and refresh our views. I will send soon some details about the ideas that I am trying to put together in a paper format for this event.

With Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Soma Basu <somab...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you so much. 

I shall send my article within the time limit. 

Best regards, 

Dr Soma Basu 

On 7 May 2017 3:43 pm, "Mohan Kharel" <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dr Soma Basu

It is nice to hear that you are willing to participate in up coming Science and Scientist- 2017 that is going to be held in Kathmandu. You are welcome heartily.  In the mean time you may start sending the  article that you want to present in the conference to Shanta or Muni Maharaj, if you have it already, although the dead line for submission is   July 2, 2017.

Thank you

Mohaan Kharel

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Soma Basu <somab...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Prof. Mohan Kharel

Central Department of Biotechnology

Tribhuvan University, Kathmandu, Nepal

I would like to present a paper in the 5th International Conference of SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST - 2017.

Thank you for sharing the information.

Best regards,

Dr Soma Basu

Associate Professor

School of Vedic Studies

Rabindra Bharati University

Kolkata 700050, WEST BENGAL, INDIA

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 11:35 AM, DR. MAHENDRA KUMAR TANEJA <tanejae...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks

I am interested 

On 30 Apr 2017 2:55 pm, "Dr Shilpi Saxena" <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

You are right Sir that Indian Philosophy is rich with diverse schools of thoughts, for further reference we can read the details given by (H.H.) Dr B.M. Puri Maharaja in the article “SIDDHANTA” [Advaita, Dvaita, Visisadvaita, Acintya Bheda-Abheda Tattva, Matter, Ego, Maya, Consciousness, Spirit] so that we can understand these subjects more precisely. http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga /?download=SIDDHANTA.pdf

There is no conflict between these Schools of thoughts because according to one’s understanding and developing stages of consciousness one adopt a different kind of philosophy. When he/she cross that developmental stages then only one can enter and could understand the next higher kind of stages. In Indian Philosophy there is possibility for everyone to elevate their consciousness by following the different kind of process which is most suitable and soothing according to our present stage. 

Sir, I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings. My intention is not like that. You are much experienced than me. But I thought this is a very good and authentic forum ‘sadhu-sanga’ and we have also a great platform like annual conference of ‘Science and Scientist-2017’. By debating and discussion we can learn so many things from so many learned peoples like you. As a Human being our aim is same “Find the Root and Watering the Root”.

I hope we could have more fruitful discussion during “Science and Scientist-2017” Conference in Kathmandu.

 

Thanks with regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​o​

n Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 9:28 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shilpi,

I wish I had your confidence when I was young like you. I still don't have it. But you are obviously in some high level of deep thinking of a philosophical plane to decide that Lokayata is a poor philosophy. One of my senior colleagues, V. P. Verma wrote a book on Indian atheism and won the Birla prize for the book on Hindi. Indian philosophy is rich with diverse schools that are Nastik, do not accept the existence of God. I am afraid you have a very narrow conception of what Indian philosophy is. Indian philosophy on the whole is never dogmatic or doctinaire like you claim it to be. History of atheism is much richer in the history of Indian philosophy than it is in Western philosophy. You would be hard pressed to find atheistic schools in Western philosophy before the 18th century. I have been doing shallow thinking philosophy for 45 years and will continue to do so but I will still not accept the existence of a soul or a non material consciousness. And I am not the only one. There are a lot of inferior to you and shallow thinking philosophers who are in the same boat as I am. In fact, a lot of the concepts of God, Divinity, Theism, and so on which are currently used to spell out some of the Indian texts are imported from the West. The literal meaning of 'Theism' is not there in ancient Indian texts. Unfortunately, a person I admired a lot, and met a few times when I was a child, Radhakrishnan, is partially responsible for the Christianizing of Hinduism and of Indian philosophy. Advaita is not the paradigm of either Hinduism or Indian philosophy as it came much later, at the fag end of when the activity of Indian philosophy with vicious debates among schools and within schools came to an end and since then Indian philosophy has become stagnant as your dogmatic statements clearly indicate.

Priyedarshi

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi ji,

It’s nice to be in touch with you again. Thanks for your reply.

In Indian philosophy there is no prominent objective-subjective duality because we do not deny the fact that apart from gross body, mind, consciousness, soul and God do exist. We do not deny the existence of subtle plane just because we do not sense them by our gross senses. But somehow Western thought and its brainchild modern science keep on denying the existence of any reality beyond gross body.

I can establish you through the most authentic and scientific ‘Vedic literatures’. Vedic literatures have attracted the attention of some world’s finest scientific minds such as Erwin Schrodinger, Robert Oppenheimer, Albert Einstein and many more.

Some references from Vedic Vedic literature about the Existence of soul:

[Srimad Bhagavad-gita(Bg)Chapter 2.16,17, 20,22,23,24], [Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3.31], [Svetasvatara Upanisad 5.9], [Katha Upanisad 1.2.20]. Please read in detail if you really want to know the existence of soul.

I want to ask you one question on your comment that I presume the existence of soul. Do you also not presume that you exist? You have used the word "I" many time in your reply. Do you also not presume that "I" exist? What is your prove that "I" exist. If you can know the prove behind "I" then you will naturally get the prove behind soul.

I am seeing that you are discussing much on philosophy and doing real philosophy needs deep thinking and I hope that you will not ask me to prove the existence of thinking. How gross and subtle planes are linked is the question that science and philosophy should discuss and not about to prove of their existence. But many are confused on simple things because of bad education that we are getting from materialistic science and poor philosophy like Lokayata. Lokayata is stated to be the Hindu school where there is "no God, no samsara (rebirth), no karma, no duty, no fruits of merit, no sin (Haribhadrasūri (Translator: M Jain, 1989), Saddarsanasamuccaya, Asiatic Society, OCLC 255495691).

Science and philosophy are not here to confuse us even on simple things. At present science/philosophy are only a medium of making money and do not have any real values and deep spiritual insights. We have to focus on some verses of vedic literature, Vedanta-sutra 1.1.1, Srimad Bhagavatam 1.1.2, and Katha Upanisad 1.3.14, then only we can understand the real purpose of Human life in a right perspective.

It is really good to see so much of nice and insightful discussions on this forum and “Science and Scientist-2017” will be good platform to meet personally with the participants of this forum so that they can clarify the differences that they have on certain issues.

 

Thanks with regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 3:46 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shilpi,

Many, including some in this group do not accept the objective-subjective distinction as you describe it and hold it. I do not understand how you jump from this distinction to holism. In the holistic perspective the sujective-objective distinction is perhaps dissolved. Before you talk about the soul, which you simply assume exists, you must in some way establish its existence and not simply assume it. Otherwise there can be no debate on whether or not the soul exists. And these debates have been there in the history of Indian philosophy as I have given evidence of it with the Lokyata perspective. All these perspectives have been around. I am saying nothing new.

Priyedarshi

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

 

Your email content is reflecting two gross ways for understanding, one is mainly for Objective approach and other is Subjective.

 

From a purely professional level Science would not progress if it will not approached with specialization. But we need objective approach only for our livelihood but after achieving our professional positions like Professor and Scientist we also need wholistic approach and this approach is not exclusive. What way we can do real good to our true being is also a part of real scientific study. Analytical (Objective) study and theoretical (Subjective) study both should go together then only we could understand the whole reality.

 

How science can be wholistic if it excludes the study of Scientist (soul) and souls of all souls (Supreme God)? And as far as I know this is also the main purpose of ‘Science and Scientist-2017’ Conference: http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017

 

We as finite being cannot understand and represent the Whole that accommodate everything in it. Only Absolute can Harmonize everything. Therefore, we have to change our concept from self-centered exploitation to the God-centered dedication. One process is to find the root and next process to water the root (Srimad Bhagavad-Gita 5.4).

 

I am planning to submit a paper for this conference and would like to present the same if accepted. Hope that you and other list members of this group can also join this event and we can have some fruitful dialogue at Kathmandu during the conference.

 

With regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

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--
----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017
 

BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
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[Oliver Manuel]

Dear Professor Mohan Kharel,

Thank you for the invitation to participate in the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ on 17-18 August 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal.

I would like to attend the conference and present the following abstract of a paper on the 1935 logical error in calculating atomic nuclear energy:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Nuclear_Energy_Error7.pdf

if there will be atomic, nuclear or particle physicists present to offer comments, corrections or criticisms.  

The above logical error has isolated humanity from Reality/Truth/God for the past eighty-two years, although it was recognized by my research mentor, the late Professor Paul Kazuo Kuroda, on 13 June 1936:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/HIGHER-POWERZ.pdf 

In keeping with the theme of this year's conference, “Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self,” I would be happy to have any other scientist familiar with atomic, nuclear or particle physics introduce the paper discussion (particularly the figure at the top of the first page), in the event that I am unable to travel or to obtain a visa to visit Nepal.     

I will copy one of my earlier, talented former students, Srinivasan BalaSubramanian, one of my younger, brighter former students, Marcel Pless, in Germany, and one of my recent physics & astronomy colleagues, Hilton Ratcliffe, to see if one of them might be able to travel to Nepal on 17-18 August 2017 to present the paper.  

Srinivasan discovered and reported s-products in the Murchison meteorite in 1978:

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/201/4350/51

Marcel discovered and reported solar mass-fractionation of s-products in the sun in 2005:

http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts2005/Fk01.pdf

Hilton reported the importance of neutron repulsion as the cosmic source of energy in 2007:

http://creation.com/review-hilton-radcliffe-virtue-of-heresy

Thank you for reading and replying to this message.

With kind regards,

~Oliver K. Manuel

Emeritus Professor &

Former NASA Principal

Investigator for Apollo

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shilpi,

If the difference between the real and the unreal is only to be realized at some higher esoteric stages, then, from a humanitarian point of view, it is not very inviting. The farmers who feed us have a sense of the real as adequate rain, their crops coming out fine, and so on, and they do not ever get the time to reach those high levels of consciousness so that they don't realize that rain, crops, etc. aren't really a high level of reality. But lucky for us because if they went off to the higher states to realize what reality is we would not be around here sharing our perspectives on this forum as we would not have anything to eat.

Priyedarshi

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[Vasavada, Kashyap V]

Dear Priyedarshi.

Please call me kashyap. Your comment to Shilpi was quite interesting! My answer would be that according to modern physics our day to day life is based on classical physics. That is as real as one could get. The question of reality or nonreality would arise only if our farmer thinks about quantum theory i.e. if while running his tractor and talking to his wife or friends on his cell phone, he starts wondering what is  the science behind all this!! So it is fine with  us if he believes his world is real. That is perfectly ok! But I wonder what would you call unreal?

Best Regards.

kashyap

+91-(9748906907)

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[Prabhakar Calyam]

Happy at the theme of the conference exploring the theme going deep into the various faculties of knowledge.

the conference would be successful by opening new vistas of knowledge.

I like to contribute a paper on the knowledge of Science and scientist in the expressions of Yajurveda ,more so the Arunaprasna of Taittiriya Aranyaka. Aruna prasna is exploration of knowledge on Astrophysics, Time, Clouds, Sun stars and the creation mode and supremacy of Purusha the cause for everything inthe universe.

regards,.

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"Oh Agni, give us strength to fight all our misdoings and lead us in the righteous path. We offer you salutations". -RgVeda

[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Priyedarshi Ji,

I appreciate the nice reply of Dr. Kashyap and I want to add the following points
1. Humanitarian point of view itself may be esoteric for farmers and different farmers have their own reason behind cultivation of crops.
2. Scientists think that some biomolecules are the building blocks of life. For them biomolecules are real to understand life. But as explained by Dr. Kashyap, I do not think majority of farmers think that biomolecules are the reality based on which life can be understood.
3. Can humanitarian idea be studied by physics and chemistry alone? What are the physical building blocks of humanitarian idea? If humanitarian idea does not have a physical basis then can we call it unreal?
4. There are farmers who certainly believe that seeds are divine gift and it is not an outcome of human or physical manipulation of matter. They know for sure that they cannot manufacture seeds from soil (chemicals) and seeds come from life (plants). So what is real for scientists is completely different for farmers.
5. So it is wrong to conclude that farmers do not ever get the time to reach the high levels of consciousness. From their own experience of farming they can realize divine. They indeed realize that rain, crops, etc. are divine gifts.
6. Unlike animals, it is human beings who cultivate their food. Animals simply eat and thus the act of farming differentiates us from that of animals.

I also wish to draw your attentions towards a very interesting article entitled “Idols of the Mind vs. True Reality” dated December 27, 2015 written by Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D., Please visit the link below:

http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin/2015/12/27/idols-of-the-mind-vs-true-reality/

​

With Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​

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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear Prof. Oliver K. Manuel,

Happy to learn that you are also coming to Science and Scientist - 2017 conference along with your students. I am a chemist and I will be happy to learn from you the logical error in calculating atomic nuclear energy. I was always curious about the concept of strong force and it is quite amazing that nucleus of elements with higher atomic numbers contain so many protons so closely. What kind of amazing process is needed for such a thing to originate! How positive and negative charges originated from the fundamental stuff (whatever that may be!)? If you and others experts on this group can clarify these things then it will be helpful. Of course about these topics I will be happy to talk to you in person during the conference.

I have also worked for a Project in collaboration with International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Vienna and during this period I have got the opportunity to work with a team of Scientists involved in this project: Dr Bhishm Kumar, Scientist, F (Former Consultant in Isotope Hydrology Section, IAEA, Vienna Austria), Dr M.S. Rao, Scientist E, at National Institute of Hydrology, Roorkee, Dr S.K. Gupta, Principal Scientist and Dr R.D. Despande, Scientist at Physical Research Laboratory, Ahemdabad,  Dr P.S. Datta, Project Director and Principal Scientist at Nuclear Research Laboratory, IARI New Delhi and Dr S.V. Navada, Scientist at Bhabha Atomic Research Center, Trombay, Mumbai.

 

For your information the conference dates are 18-19 August, 2017. It was initially sent by mistake as 17-18 August, 2017 and a correction was sent latter.

With Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 8:16 PM, Oliver Manuel <omat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Professor Mohan Kharel,

Thank you for the invitation to participate in the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ on 17-18 August 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal.

I would like to attend the conference and present the following abstract of a paper on the 1935 logical error in calculating atomic nuclear energy:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Nuclear_Energy_Error7.pdf

if there will be atomic, nuclear or particle physicists present to offer comments, corrections or criticisms.  

The above logical error has isolated humanity from Reality/Truth/God for the past eighty-two years, although it was recognized by my research mentor, the late Professor Paul Kazuo Kuroda, on 13 June 1936:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/HIGHER-POWERZ.pdf 

In keeping with the theme of this year's conference, “Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self,” I would be happy to have any other scientist familiar with atomic, nuclear or particle physics introduce the paper discussion (particularly the figure at the top of the first page), in the event that I am unable to travel or to obtain a visa to visit Nepal.     

I will copy one of my earlier, talented former students, Srinivasan BalaSubramanian, one of my younger, brighter former students, Marcel Pless, in Germany, and one of my recent physics & astronomy colleagues, Hilton Ratcliffe, to see if one of them might be able to travel to Nepal on 17-18 August 2017 to present the paper.  

Srinivasan discovered and reported s-products in the Murchison meteorite in 1978:

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/201/4350/51

Marcel discovered and reported solar mass-fractionation of s-products in the sun in 2005:

http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts2005/Fk01.pdf

Hilton reported the importance of neutron repulsion as the cosmic source of energy in 2007:

http://creation.com/review-hilton-radcliffe-virtue-of-heresy

Thank you for reading and replying to this message.

With kind regards,

~Oliver K. Manuel

Emeritus Professor &

Former NASA Principal

Investigator for Apollo

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
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Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shilpi,

I think you have missed my point. We are in a privileged position to explore consciousness and go to conferences because the farmers are doing the dirty work for us in feeding us. Surely there are, I suppose, sadhus who do not eat or those who grow their own food, but these are exceptions. Surely, farmers can find time to explore consciousness, but as a rule they don't. They have a rough life. We dont' have that rough life so we cannot understand. It is not just farmers but also factory workers, construction workers and others without whom we would not comfortably be sitting in our homes and typing on the computers and sharing our views on this forum.

Priyedarshi 

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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Kashyap,

I agree with you. As a student of philosophy, I am always after clarifying the use of terms and demanding criterion for distinction and just accepting standard discussions. I find the real-unreal distinction to be precarious. We live in a world with multiple types of entities and phenomena. In this wide diversity how do we partition the real from the unreal? Is it not arbitrary? In mathematics we have a continuum. We make a cut and separate real from complex numbers, we make another cut and separate rational from irrational numbers, we make another cut and separate integers from the rest of rational numbers, we make another cut and separate positive from negative integers, another cut and even from odd, another cut and prime from non prime, and so on. But all these numbers are real, putting aside the use of 'real' versus 'imaginary'. Coming back to our everyday world, dreams, illusions, mirages, hallucinations are all real, they just have different explanation than other real experiences like veridical perception.

Priyedarshi

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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Priyedarshi ji

Thank you very much Sir for raising your concern.

Why a farmer and a factory worker cannot uplift their consciousness? Every human has the potential to inquire about his origin and goal of life and this inquiry is not restricted to scientists and philosophers alone. As described in ‘Padam Puran’, “there are 900,000 species living in the water, 2,000,000 non-moving living entities [stavara] such as tree and plants, 1,100,000 species of insects and reptiles, and 1,000,000 species of birds. As far as quadrupeds are concerned, there are 3,000,000 varieties and there are only 400,000 human species.

According to ‘Brahma Vaivarta Purana’, one attains the human form of life after transmigrating through these 8,000,000 species by the process of gradual evolution of consciousness.

Then what should we have to do and how everyone can uplift their consciousness?

It is clearly mentioned in Vedanta Sutra (1.1.1), “one should inquire about the Absolute Truth” and try to understand the boon that you now have in this human form of life. The path to understand the Absolute truth is very difficult; it is sharp like a razor’s edge” (Katha Upanishad 1.3.14). That is the opinion of learned transcendental scholars.

As you said in your reply that … “Surely, farmers can find time to explore consciousness, but as a rule they don't. They have a rough life.

 

Sir, why you are ready to give credit only to farmers but not to the source of origin of those plants, without which even farmers are helpless and they cannot do any cultivation. As food grains are produced from rains and rains are produced by performance of prescribed duties (BG 3.14).

 

According to Srimad Bhagavad-Gita (BG 3.35), as farmer, worker, philosopher, scientist, soldier even a King (BG 3.20) can uplift ones consciousness by doing one’s prescribed duties. Our position is that we respect everything and at the same time we should remain focused on the goal of human life.

 

As you said that “….We are in a privileged position to explore consciousness and go to conferences because the farmers are doing the dirty work for us in feeding us”.

Sir, it’s also not true for all. Those who have comfortable life and big position in society and highly educated in general the tendency is that their false pride stops them to accept the shelter of Supreme Controller and they are happy to live a self-centred life. But those who are in more humble position, they may be farmers and administrators even some great scientist, they can easily accept the process to uplift their consciousness by gradual process and live a simple God-centred life.

 

In one of your past email you have doubted the existence of Soul and you have asked for the proof of soul existence. And I have asked you the proof of "I" and you have not replied. Do you really think that proof of things are only possible the way scientists conceive in empirically or there are some other way?

 

All suggestions and comments are most welcome.

Thanks with Best Regards

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[BMP]

Dear Friends,

 

Namaste. Descartes in his Meditations on First Philosophy has this to say about the idea of the human being as a 'rational animal.'

 

"What then did I formerly think I was? A human being. But what is a human

being? Shall I say ‘a rational animal’? No; for then I should have to inquire

what an animal is, what rationality is, and in this way one question would lead

me down the slope to other harder ones, and I do not now have the time to

waste on subtleties of this kind."

 

In her dissertation, "The Life of the Concept (2012)" Karen Ng comments on the oxymoronic nature of the idea of a human being as a 'rational animal':

 

"In the wake of an enlightened, philosophical modernity, it was Kant who identified a conflict within the designation of human beings as “rational animals,” a conflict that expressed the fundamental incompatibility of these two terms. For Kant, insofar as we are rational and free, we have left our animal natures, and nature itself, behind. To the extent that our animal natures and nature as such still mattered for rational life, we had yet to become fully autonomous, and remained burdened by heteronomy. The incompatibility of reason and nature reaches antinomial heights in Kant’s critical system, bringing us face to face not only with the limits of reason’s powers, but also with the absolute division between freedom and non-freedom, ushering forth a dualistic, distinctively modern worldview that, for good reasons, continues to hold us captive. If Kant’s antinomies have any meaning for us at all, then our designation as rational animals is in fact, no truism, but a persistent and stubborn conflict borne within ourselves that must be taken into account in any understanding of rational freedom."

 

Without understanding this radical distinction between rational Man and natural animal existence the entire concept of Man's spiritual identity/second nature as an essentially cultural, intellectual, political, religious, philosophical, and so on self-conscious creature is lost. The consequence of this loss of distinction is the barbaric consequence of a science of nature that has no comprehension of the ultimate/noumenal spiritual dimension of reality that is the essential immanent and transcendental truth of phenomenal Nature.

 

Sincerely,

B Madhava Puri, Ph.D.

Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute

http://bviscs.org

Facebook

[Ádám Kun]

Dear Dr. Puri,

When biologist speak about a rational animal, they use the definition of
"rational" as economist use the term, i.e. that an individual always
chooses behavioural strategy/options that will maximize his/her
immediate utility/fitness.
And then under animals we mean Metazoa, i.e. the clade that includes
sponges, cnidarians, insects, vertebrates, etc.
I also agree that we are not rational animals. But I have problem with
rational. We are not rational. We do not do calculations in order to
make sure we choose the best options available to us. We do most of our
important choices based on gut feeling, which is a nice way to describe
instinct.

But then Descartes had other notion of rational, and thus he is right.
And biologist are also right.

There were a lot of problem on this list of using different definition
of terms, and then contrasting text employing these different
definitions as they describe the same thing. They do not.

best wishes,
Ádám
> Dear Friends,
> Namaste. Descartes in his/Meditations on First Philosophy/has this to

> say about the idea of the human being as a 'rational animal.'
> "What then did I formerly think I was? A human being. But what is a human
> being? Shall I say ‘a rational animal’? No; for then I should have to
> inquire
> what an animal is, what rationality is, and in this way one question
> would lead
> me down the slope to other harder ones, and I do not now have the time to
> waste on subtleties of this kind."

> In her dissertation, "/The Life of the Concep/t (2012)" Karen Ng

> h <http://bviscs.org/>ttp://bviscs.org
> Facebook <http://facebook.com/bviscs>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[BMP]

Dear Dr. Kun

Namaste. The instinctive awareness of 'what is', is distinguished from and superseded by the comprehension or 'conception of what is.' The second as the negation of (i.e.not) the first does not annihilate the first but distinguishes or differentiates itself from it.  The first is Nature, what immediately is, includes both the inanimate world as well as the animate world of struggle for existence or survival, eating, mating, sleeping, fighting, breathing, evacuating, suffering, enjoying and so forth. We may call this stage the instinct of reason, or reason in its form of its instinctive immediate being. This is shared by Man and animal. But to comprehend or form a concept of what, why or the purpose of eating, fighting, suffering, and so on belongs to a reasoning that mediates what is immediate. Indeed to comprehend the purpose or end for what is merely given to us in its immediacy as Nature is often referred to as the "reason" for it. 

Animals and other living creatures experience suffering but only Man contemplates why he is suffering. This has nothing to do with calculation. Calculation has to do with fixed identities like numbers, or unchanging principles, and thus produce mechanical or mere external relations to any initial position or condition. That is why it can be done on machines. It has nothing to do with comprehensive or conceptual reasoning. The result of the calculation has meaning or purpose only to the person not the machine doing the calculation. 

Archer fish can shoot down flying insects from underwater with uncanny accuracy by squirting water at them, somehow compensating for the refraction of light through the air-water interface.  Humans are not as accurate, but even an error in judgement by a human being is a far superior accomplishment than the instinctive accuracy of a fish. 

Sincerely,

B Madhava Puri, Ph.D.

Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute

BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE – of Spiritual Culture & Science

BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE – of Spiritual Culture & Science

Facebook

---

From: Ádám Kun <kun...@ludens.elte.hu>
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] It is an oxymoron to call Man a rational animal

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[M. R. N. Murthy]

29 May 2017

Dear Dr. Shilpi,

I have some comments on your E-mail.

> 1. Humanitarian point of view itself may be esoteric for farmers and
> different farmers have their own reason behind cultivation of crops.

I have no doubt that farmers and other sections of the working
class have humanitarian values much like any other group. Some of them
are very kind, some intermediate and a few are wicked.

> 2. Scientists think that some biomolecules are the building blocks of life.
> For them biomolecules are real to understand life. But as explained by Dr.
> Kashyap, I do not think majority of farmers think that biomolecules are the
> reality based on which life can be understood.

Farmers certainly know that plants grow from seeds. They may not be
familiar with modern biology and hence may not know the role played by
biomolecules in the manifestation of what we call "life". However, many
farmers do undersstand that genetically modified crops could possess very
different properties in terms of productivity and pest resistance.

> 3. Can humanitarian idea be studied by physics and chemistry alone? What
> are the physical building blocks of humanitarian idea? If humanitarian idea
> does not have a physical basis then can we call it unreal?

Human condition can be understood in terms of evolution of life.
All living cells follow the laws of nature (physics and chemistry). Thus
indirectly, laws of physics and chemistry dominate life. But direct
understanding cellular processes in terms of physics and chemistry is
at the moment difficult. Some work in systems biology comes close to
understaning cellular processes in terms of equations and equilibria.

> 4. There are farmers who certainly believe that seeds are divine gift and
> it is not an outcome of human or physical manipulation of matter. They know
> for sure that they cannot manufacture seeds from soil (chemicals) and seeds
> come from life (plants). So what is real for scientists is completely
> different for farmers.

Farmers certainly know that seeds cannot be obtained from soil. They
are also painfully aware that seeds fail to grow and yield produce if
adequate water and sunshine is unavailable. They understand the process
of life quite deeply.

> 5. So it is wrong to conclude that farmers do not ever get the time to
> reach the high levels of consciousness. From their own experience of
> farming they can realize divine. They indeed realize that rain, crops, etc.
> are divine gifts.

Farmers are as gifted as any other group in terms of common sense and
understaning the world around them in a rational way.

> 6. Unlike animals, it is human beings who cultivate their food. Animals
> simply eat and thus the act of farming differentiates us from that of
> animals.

There are exampples of animals that practise farming. I agree that
values are truly human. Most animals behave as dictated by their genes.
Even a large fraction of human culture and behavior is due to our
ancestry. However, the so called "free will" makes us responsible for
our actions. However, "free will" is even more complex than human values.

Kind regards,

Murthy

>
> I also wish to draw your attentions towards a very interesting article
> entitled “Idols of the Mind vs. True Reality” dated December 27, 2015
> written by Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D., Please visit the
> link below:
> http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin/2015/12/27/idols-of-the-mind-vs-true-reality/
>
> ​
> With Best Regards
>

> *Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.*
> *D, FICCE *
> *Women Scientist-DST *
> *Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)*
> *University of Delhi, Delhi-110007*

>>> "*Purpose
>>> of Hegel’s **Phenomenology of Spirit **is to demonstrate that is the

>>> concept is underlying reality or truth that lies hidden to ordinary
>>> knowing. Once the concept is revealed it becomes object of scientific
>>> developments in his Encyclopedia of Philosophical Sciences, but because of
>>> its absolute nature the concept and its developments are identical while
>>> different simultaneously. On the absolute platform opposites are identical
>>> in their difference, just as the absolute value of [1] is the same as the
>>> absolute value of [-1] in mathematics. To be able to think in terms of
>>> absolute knowledge therefore one has to leave the duality of relative
>>> knowing or understanding and raise oneself to the level of dialectical

>>> unity or Reason”*.

>>>
>>> In a reply of Vasavada Kashyap Ji to Robert Boyer dated 23 May 2017 in

>>> the thread ‘*Response to your Question on Bohm’s Theory*’ he wrote that

>>> *Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.*
>>> *D, FICCE *
>>> *Women Scientist-DST *
>>> *Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)*
>>> *University of Delhi, Delhi-110007*

>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta <
>>> b...@scsiscs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some of the topics under discussion on this list will also be the topics
>>>> of our presentation in Science and Scientist - 2017

>>>> <http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017>:

>>>>
>>>> 1. Science is not Sacrosanct and Science Takes Place Within an Orthodox
>>>> Tradition

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/online_sadhu_sanga/q9Or94AdYEM/InxokspABAAJ>

>>>> 2. Neurology, Phrenology, Astrology - The Problem of Correlationism in
>>>> Modern Science

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/online_sadhu_sanga/ZFbjCx2CA60/C6M4eiWsBAAJ>

>>>> 3. The Unreasonable Relation of Mathematics to Natural Science

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/online_sadhu_sanga/s36UDwcWdc8/lZsd8DylBQAJ>

>>>> 4. One can be a Scientific Skeptic of Evolution Theory

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/online_sadhu_sanga/0UAN-0Gpr4o/evmxjk1ZCwAJ>

>>>> 5. Beyond the Modern Monolith of Consciousness

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/online_sadhu_sanga/mUxjp_CsST4/93GiwZKcCAAJ>

>>>> 6. The False Elephant and the False Ego

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/online_sadhu_sanga/Rh1Wi0y9LqE/tMRlkWOaEQAJ>
>>>>
>>>> Thanking you.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,

>>>> Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D. Sri Chaitanya Saraswat
>>>> Institute
>>>>

>>>> +91-(9748906907)
>>>> Donate <http://scienceandscientist.org/donate>
>>>> www.scsiscs.org

>>>> #8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City,
>>>> Bangalore, Karnataka, India

>>>> <http://facebook.com/scsiscs>

>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, 8 May 2017 3:57 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <
>>>> drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Dr Mahendra Kumar Taneja
>>>>
>>>> Happy to know that you are also interested in joining this upcoming
>>>> Science and Scientist 2017 conference at Kathmandu. It will be good to know
>>>> the different important topics/views that different participants in this
>>>> event are planning to present so that we can have some discussion on those
>>>> topics in this Sadhu Sanga egroup platform and it will help us refine and
>>>> refresh our views. I will send soon some details about the ideas that I am
>>>> trying to put together in a paper format for this event.
>>>>
>>>> With Regards

>>>> *Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.*
>>>> *D, FICCE *
>>>> *Women Scientist-DST *
>>>> *Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)*
>>>> *University of Delhi, Delhi-110007*

>>>> *Respected Priyedarshi Ji*

>>>> You are right Sir that Indian Philosophy is rich with diverse schools of
>>>> thoughts, for further reference we can read the details given by (H.H.) Dr

>>>> B.M. Puri Maharaja in the article “*SIDDHANTA*” [Advaita, Dvaita,

>>>> Visisadvaita, Acintya Bheda-Abheda Tattva, Matter, Ego, Maya,
>>>> Consciousness, Spirit] so that we can understand these subjects more
>>>> precisely. http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga /?download=SIDDHANTA.pdf

>>>> <http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/?download=SIDDHANTA.pdf>

>>>>
>>>> There is no conflict between these Schools of thoughts because according
>>>> to one’s understanding and developing stages of consciousness one adopt a
>>>> different kind of philosophy. When he/she cross that developmental stages
>>>> then only one can enter and could understand the next higher kind of
>>>> stages. In Indian Philosophy there is possibility for everyone to elevate
>>>> their consciousness by following the different kind of process which is
>>>> most suitable and soothing according to our present stage.
>>>>
>>>> Sir, I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings. My intention is not like
>>>> that. You are much experienced than me. But I thought this is a very good
>>>> and authentic forum ‘sadhu-sanga’ and we have also a great platform like
>>>> annual conference of ‘Science and Scientist-2017’. By debating and
>>>> discussion we can learn so many things from so many learned peoples like

>>>> you. As a Human being our aim is same *“Find the Root and Watering the
>>>> Root”*.
>>>>
>>>> *I hope we could have more fruitful discussion during “Science and
>>>> Scientist-2017” Conference in Kathmandu.*
>>>>
>>>> *Thanks with regards*
>>>>
>>>> *Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.*
>>>> *D, FICCE *
>>>> *Women Scientist-DST *
>>>> *Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)*
>>>> *University of Delhi, Delhi-110007*

>>>> [*Srimad Bhagavad-gita(Bg)Chapter 2.16,17, 20,22,23,24], [Srimad

>>>> Bhagavatam Canto 3.31], [Svetasvatara Upanisad 5.9], [Katha Upanisad

>>>> 1.2.20].* Please read in detail if you really want to know the

>>>> existence of soul.
>>>> I want to ask you one question on your comment that I presume the
>>>> existence of soul. Do you also not presume that you exist? You have used
>>>> the word "I" many time in your reply. Do you also not presume that "I"
>>>> exist? What is your prove that "I" exist. If you can know the prove behind
>>>> "I" then you will naturally get the prove behind soul.
>>>> I am seeing that you are discussing much on philosophy and doing real
>>>> philosophy needs deep thinking and I hope that you will not ask me to prove
>>>> the existence of thinking. How gross and subtle planes are linked is the
>>>> question that science and philosophy should discuss and not about to prove
>>>> of their existence. But many are confused on simple things because of bad
>>>> education that we are getting from materialistic science and poor

>>>> philosophy like Lokayata. *Lokayata* is stated to be the Hindu school

>>>> where there is "no God, no samsara

>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsara> (rebirth), no karma, no duty,

>>>> no fruits of merit, no sin (Haribhadrasūri (Translator: M Jain, 1989),
>>>> Saddarsanasamuccaya, Asiatic Society, OCLC

>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCLC> 255495691
>>>> <https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/255495691>).

>>>> Science and philosophy are not here to confuse us even on simple things.
>>>> At present science/philosophy are only a medium of making money and do not
>>>> have any real values and deep spiritual insights. We have to focus on some

>>>> verses of vedic literature, *Vedanta-sutra 1.1.1, Srimad Bhagavatam
>>>> 1.1.2, and Katha Upanisad 1.3.14,* then only we can understand the real

>>>> purpose of Human life in a right perspective.
>>>> It is really good to see so much of nice and insightful discussions on
>>>> this forum and “Science and Scientist-2017” will be good platform to
>>>> meet
>>>> personally with the participants of this forum so that they can clarify the
>>>> differences that they have on certain issues.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks with regards

>>>> *Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.*
>>>> *D, FICCE *
>>>> *Women Scientist-DST *
>>>> *Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)*
>>>> *University of Delhi, Delhi-110007*

>>>> <http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017>

>>>>
>>>> We as finite being cannot understand and represent the Whole that
>>>> accommodate everything in it. Only Absolute can Harmonize everything.
>>>> Therefore, we have to change our concept from self-centered exploitation to
>>>> the God-centered dedication. One process is to find the root and next
>>>> process to water the root (Srimad Bhagavad-Gita 5.4).
>>>>
>>>> I am planning to submit a paper for this conference and would like to
>>>> present the same if accepted. Hope that you and other list members of this
>>>> group can also join this event and we can have some fruitful dialogue at
>>>> Kathmandu during the conference.
>>>>
>>>> With regards

>>>> *Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.*
>>>> *D, FICCE *
>>>> *Women Scientist-DST *
>>>> *Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)*
>>>> *University of Delhi, Delhi-110007*

>>>> from the *Vedantic perspective*. The main theme of the conference is
>>>> “*Working
>>>> Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self*”,

>>>> and that ..." Physical scientists fail to study these higher

>>>> categories of reality ..The *Vedānta-sūtra* advises, .. *athāto brahma
>>>> jijñāsā*, until you reach *brahma*, the underlying spiritual source,
>>>> *janmādy asya yatah*, the fountainhead where all inquiry will reach
>>>> its purpose...."
>>>> -------------------
>>>>
>>>> *I am **Shastri in Nyaaya( Logic), Nyaaya-Tirtha, and Ph.D.,
>>>> University of London(1960),*“The Paradox of Negative Judgment.” In

>>>> General Physics: How do we know: the Dark Matter = the Absence of Matter
>>>> (Reality) and Existence of Non-Entity.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest we keep the discourse open for different paradigmatic views as
>>>> the Upanishadic Rishi says:
>>>>
>>>> : Ekam Sad-Vipraha bahudha vadanti.
>>>> TRUTH IS ONE BUT INTERPRETENDED DIFFERENTly BY SCHOLARS.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Dhirendra Sharma
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 11:53 PM, Istikhar Ali <istikh...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much Prof. Kharel for the invitation of "Fifth
>>>> International Conference Science and Scientist-2017". It will be very
>>>> helpful for us.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> On 10-Apr-2017 11:37 PM, "'puttu kulkarni' via Sadhu-Sanga Under the
>>>> holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D."
>>>> <Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegrou

>>>> *First they will Laugh on you then they will threaten you and then they
>>>> will follow you**.*

>>>>
>>>> GANDHI...........
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>

>>>> [image: Boxbe] <https://www.boxbe.com/overview> This message is

>>>> eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (mohankh...@gmail.com) Add cleanup
>>>> rule

>>>> <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Fkey%3DeoL%252BcCMowOT5AZ8gCtJOaart8ZWL3ryHuSKQ6efMVVo%253D%26token%3DoCu7PCkhp6wJZ6KSFa%252Fpw%252BWqynfVoIrITaJ1NEhEx4BmXL1GKBLqjy2DNqSauTZ7vBHZ8f3Q2WL47FHDvhkRhzkcIaZ1HFN2lrmAWoPbSy7ARCn13%252BNfGdbyyj75GmUREV7FWZTqoZPuWRDmrKws5Q%253D%253D&tc_serial=29726082178&tc_rand=197491888&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001>
>>>> | More info
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>>>>
>>>> *Fifth International Conference*
>>>> SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017
>>>> *Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self*
>>>> *August 17, 2017 — August 18, 2017*
>>>> *Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal*
>>>> *www.scsiscs.org/conference/sci enceandscientist/2017*
>>>> <http://www.scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017>
>>>>
>>>> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore in collaboration with the *Nepal
>>>> Academy for Science and Technology (NAST)*, *Nepal Academy*, *Central
>>>> Department of Biotechnology, Tribhuvan University*, and *Kathmandu
>>>> University* are organizing the ‘*Fifth International Conference
>>>> ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’* during August 17 – 18, 2017 at *Nepal
>>>> Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal*. This conference will

>>>> be organized under the chairmanship of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja,
>>>> Ph.D. (Serving Director, Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture and
>>>> Science, Princeton, NJ, USA). Conference details can be found at:
>>>> www.scsiscs.org/conference
>>>> /scienceandscientist/2017

>>>> <http://www.scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017/>
>>>>
>>>> *Conference Registration details*

>>>> The registration details have been given at the conference webpage:

>>>> *http://scsiscs.org/conference/ index.php/scienceandscientist/
>>>> 2017/schedConf/registration*
>>>> <http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/2017/schedConf/registration>
>>>>
>>>> The last date for *early registration* is *July 10, 2017*.
>>>>
>>>> *Accommodation*

>>>> Kathmandu is well connected by air. Buses are also available from Delhi,
>>>> Varanasi, Raxaul, Siliguri, Sunauli (Bhairava), Nepalgunj (near Lucknow).
>>>> Kathmandu climatic condition during August: Temperature 18 - 28 0C.
>>>> Accommodation facility will be arranged for all registered delegates
>>>> arriving from outside Kathmandu valley. Indian delegates do not need VISA.
>>>> However, they have to carry authentic identity proof.
>>>>

>>>> *Technical Paper Submission and Proceedings of Science and Scientist –
>>>> 2017*

>>>> The organizers invite submission of articles within 5000 words and after
>>>> a review process the author of selected articles will be intimated for
>>>> presentation (for those international delegates who cannot come physically
>>>> to the conference venue an online presentation facility is also arranged)
>>>> in the conference. All accepted papers will be published in the proceedings

>>>> of Science and Scientist – 2017. The *last date* for *article
>>>> submission* is 2nd July, *2017*.

>>>>
>>>> Please submit your article online at the submissions link given in the
>>>> conference webpage.

>>>> *http://scsiscs.org/conference/ index.php/scienceandscientist/
>>>> 2017/schedConf/cfp*
>>>> <http://scsiscs.org/conference/index.php/scienceandscientist/2017/schedConf/cfp>
>>>>
>>>> *Conference Theme*

>>>> The conference will feature leading scientists from Nepal, India and
>>>> Western countries, who will deliberate on various topics which will be
>>>> valuable for developing a better understanding of the “hard” problems of
>>>> science such as the nature and origin of life and the cosmos, the
>>>> mind-brain connection, artificial intelligence and cognitive biology which

>>>> is confirming some of the important concepts of life from the *Vedantic
>>>> perspective*. The main theme of the conference is “*Working Together
>>>> Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self*”.

>>>>
>>>> Darwinism, or the original theory of evolution proposed by Darwin 150

>>>> years ago in his *Origin of Species*, in which he introduced the idea

>>>> of natural selection, was laid to rest about a half century ago when it was
>>>> succeeded by the neo-Darwinian theory involving genetic mutation and
>>>> natural selection, also known as the modern synthesis. Since then an
>>>> endless stream of textbooks, courses, media presentations and “genetic
>>>> toolkits” have been used to indoctrinate students and the public with
>>>> these
>>>> ideas causing many to give up their religious conviction in God or the soul
>>>> as integral to their understanding of life. However, with the advancement
>>>> of science, especially in the field of biology, more detailed knowledge of
>>>> the genes and genome have revealed a far more complex dynamic relation
>>>> between the genome and phoneme and its environment than can be explained by
>>>> appeal to simple genetic mechanisms. Therefore, French biologist Dr. Didier
>>>> Raoult concluded:
>>>>

>>>> “*Genetic research, in particular, must be free to find new models to

>>>> explain, and enhance, twenty-first-century scientific discovery. Today,
>>>> Darwin’s theory of evolution is more a hindrance than a help, because it
>>>> has become a quasi-theological creed that is preventing the benefits of

>>>> improved research from being fully realized.*”

>>>>
>>>> Descartes laid the philosophical groundwork for the modern scientific
>>>> period by separating subjective cognition from objective bodies, thereby
>>>> also dividing epistemology from ontology reducing knowing to indifferent
>>>> “observation.” This is the perspective of consciousness and its object,
>>>> of
>>>> which material science only imperfectly studies the object. In reality
>>>> these two are not separated but dialectically related and sublated in the
>>>> higher comprehending original unity of self-consciousness. Physical
>>>> scientists fail to study these higher categories of reality and are
>>>> therefore left with an incomplete understanding of a mere superficial
>>>> nature that is inadequate to comprehend the core truth. But scientific,
>>>> rational inquiry will not stop until a comprehensive idea is reached that
>>>> is coherent with the full range of our knowledge of life. That spectrum of
>>>> knowledge is not circumscribed merely by chemistry, physics and

>>>> mathematics. Thus *Vedānta-sūtra* advises, that you will have to
>>>> continue your search, *athāto brahma jijñāsā*, until you reach *brahma*,
>>>> the underlying spiritual source, *janmādy asya yatah*, the fountainhead

>>>> where all inquiry will reach its purpose. Then beyond knowledge

>>>> *Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam* will guide us to the ultimate search – *raso vai
>>>> saḥ*, the search for our highest fulfillment, sweetness and love.

>>>>
>>>> Modern science, or inquiry into the unknown, had its beginnings in the
>>>> Christian West because of a faith that Reason or rational principles could
>>>> be found in God’s creation. It is the task of Science and Scientist –
>>>> 2017
>>>> to understand why modern science today has turned away from and failed to

>>>> comprehend this Reason in the world, that is similar to the *nous* that

>>>> Anaxagoras conceived as ruling the world. Eclipses of the Sun were once
>>>> predicted using the geocentric epicycles of Ptolemy. They are now described
>>>> in terms of the heliocentric orbits of Copernicus. Some ancients knew that
>>>> they could chase away the Moon dog from eating the Sun god whenever they
>>>> would beat their gongs. Each of these examples have something correct or
>>>> confirming about them even though they imagine different realities
>>>> corresponding to them. Newton’s conception of the solar system included
>>>> God
>>>> as necessary to guide the alchemical vitality that was intrinsic to the
>>>> order and movement in the universe. The mathematical bones of Newton’s

>>>> *Principia* were abstracted by modern physics and converted into a

>>>> The *Sri Isopanishad* explains that the Complete Whole can produce

>>>> complete wholes from itself without losing its completeness. Absolute has
>>>> no restriction as to how many wholes it can produce out of itself. The only
>>>> restriction comes from the finite awareness and thinking of a finite
>>>> intellect that tries to determine what the Absolute can or cannot do. The
>>>> Absolute must always be the result of pure reason based on logic and
>>>> evidence of an unbiased nature that is not influenced by one-sided beliefs
>>>> and prejudices.
>>>>
>>>> ‘Science and Scientist – 2017’ aims at highlighting the fact that
>>>> modern
>>>> scientific research and development seem to be leading to a detente between
>>>> science and the more spiritual ideas of soul and God as found in all world
>>>> religions. The progress of science continues to leave behind old and
>>>> outworn ideas and embrace more comprehensive ones that may more

>>>> adequately express life and its origin. *The Spiritual concepts can

>>>> help modern science to explore the reality of a spiritual conscious self as
>>>> the foundation of life and all the questions of origin of life and

>>>> evolution should be viewed from a more spiritual concept.* To judge

>>>> <http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017>
>>>>
>>>> BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
>>>> http://bviscs.org/reports
>>>>
>>>> Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue:
>>>> http://scienceandscientist.

>>>> org/donate <http://scienceandscientist.org/donate>

>>>>
>>>> Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/

>>>> 19420889.2016.1160191 <http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191>

>>>>
>>>> Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.

>>>> als.20160601.03 <http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03>

>>>>
>>>> Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/

>>>> 19420889.2015.1085138 <http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138>
>>>>
>>>> Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist. org/harmonizer

>>>> <http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer>
>>>>
>>>> Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
>>>> Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
>>>>
>>>> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
>>>>
>>>> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist. org/Darwin
>>>> <http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin>
>>>>
>>>> Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
>>>>
>>>> Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAEJ% 2BAaHFQGK1cj- 6C9K9MEUjXs5n6Ai7ykr04Edgbr_
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>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAEJ%2BAaHFQGK1cj-6C9K9MEUjXs5n6Ai7ykr04Edgbr_w7wpW%3Dg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ----------------------------
>>>> Fifth International Conference
>>>> Science and Scientist - 2017
>>>> August 18—19, 2017
>>>> Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
>>>> http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
>>>>
>>>> BHAKTI VEDANTA INSTITUTE Report Archives
>>>> http://bviscs.org/reports
>>>>
>>>> Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue:
>>>> http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
>>>>

>>>> Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942
>>>> 0889.2016.1160191
>>>>
>>>> Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al
>>>> s.20160601.03
>>>>

>>>> Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view:
>>>> http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
>>>>
>>>> Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
>>>>
>>>> Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
>>>> Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
>>>>
>>>> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
>>>>
>>>> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
>>>>
>>>> Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
>>>>
>>>> Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> Ph.D." group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

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>>>> To post to this group, send email to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
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>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms
>>>> gid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAKg-0GtmSUuNwFM7Pg95Pmb81sx4zwsKdza2
>>>> PrGJjPjFJYSXfg%40mail.gmail.com

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAKg-0GtmSUuNwFM7Pg95Pmb81sx4zwsKdza2PrGJjPjFJYSXfg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ----------------------------
>>>> Fifth International Conference
>>>> Science and Scientist - 2017
>>>> August 18—19, 2017
>>>> Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
>>>> http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
>>>>
>>>> Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org
>>>> /donate
>>>>
>>>> Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
>>>>

>>>> Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al
>>>> s.20160601.03
>>>>

>>>> Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view:
>>>> http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
>>>>
>>>> Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
>>>>
>>>> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
>>>>
>>>> Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
>>>>
>>>> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
>>>>
>>>> Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
>>>>
>>>> Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms

>>>> gid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/972374400.1213876.1495601207349%40mail.yahoo.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/972374400.1213876.1495601207349%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------
>>> Fifth International Conference
>>> Science and Scientist - 2017
>>> August 18—19, 2017
>>> Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
>>> http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
>>>
>>> Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org
>>> /donate
>>> (All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their
>>> contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act)
>>>
>>> Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
>>>

>>> Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al
>>> s.20160601.03
>>>

>>> Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view:
>>> http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
>>>
>>> Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
>>>
>>> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
>>>
>>> Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
>>>
>>> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
>>>
>>> Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
>>>
>>> Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
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>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAKg-0GvgqedpYD3xyxo_2Hg9vaAmAHZxKwkHpNtJxBbfoKPjdg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .

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>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------
>> Fifth International Conference
>> Science and Scientist - 2017
>> August 18—19, 2017
>> Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
>> http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
>>
>> Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.
>> org/donate

>> (All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their
>> contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act)
>>
>> Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports
>>

>> Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.
>> als.20160601.03
>>
>> Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/
>> 19420889.2015.1085138
>>

>> Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
>>
>> Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
>>
>> Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
>>
>> Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
>>
>> Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
>>
>> Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/

>> msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAG9qgfAKAJRH1Oo1A7yHhbFtSY-
>> ScDWFRfEqfhQptHBEOQBQxA%40mail.gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAG9qgfAKAJRH1Oo1A7yHhbFtSY-ScDWFRfEqfhQptHBEOQBQxA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --

> *Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.*
> *D, FICCE *
> *Women Scientist-DST *
> *Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)*
> *University of Delhi, Delhi-110007*

> to Online_Sadhu_Sa...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com.

> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAKg-0GtK7XciwcDqVd3%2BTuJbgz3CpQS_BCnDvj%3DTk-1ka1pfkw%40mail.gmail.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

Prof. M.R.N. Murthy
Molecular Biophysics Unit
Indian Institute of Science
Bangalore 560 012
INDIA

[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shilpi,

Of course credit goes to plants and the farmers know this much better than us without reaching any high level of consciousness. My point is what Swami Vivekananda and other reformists have made. All souls are equal, spiritual freedom requires the infrastructure in which each soul can pursue its own path. This is not possible when social structures are such that many humans are denied their dignity. So, I feel anyone's reaching higher consciousness if futile unless we can have a socially just society. We need to work for that first. For example in ancient Vedantic sociery, from what I have read (though most of our knowledge goes back to the later Vedantic and not the ancient vedantic) education through youth was free and mandatory for all. Boys and girls went to different ashrama but got the same education. Education included farming, cleaning the premises, cooking, reading the Vedas, and by the end defending up to three thesis. This is better than most PhD requirements in India. Perhaps we cannot practically have this today in India. But some sort of a social justice system is needed to provide equal educational and economic opportunity to all.

Priyedarshi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/CAKg-0GvCyfcQh0jgMvLTOOZfgTq3BjhbybLeYGD7j2JoB%2BtV2g%40mail.gmail.com.

[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear M. R. N. Murthy,

What I meant by 'humanitarianism' is not esoteric at all. Surely, we can all live self-sufficiently and grow our own food. But practically in the world today, and especially in India, this is not done. So we have a chain of dependency. Since eating is essential for survival all of us are dependent on farmers whether they are nice, not so nice or wicked. That was my point.

Priyedarshi

>>>> <Online_Sadhu_Sanga+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

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Prof. M.R.N. Murthy
Molecular Biophysics Unit
Indian Institute of Science
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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

Credit also goes to farmers who have realized from their own closeness to the nature that it is God who is the source of these seeds which we are using for cultivation. Rivers, rain, mountains, seeds of different life forms and the entire complex cosmos is a divine gift. Whether one accepts it or not that is another issue, but our intuition gives this genuine impression. I do not buy the stories that scientists narrate that everything is just a manipulation of physics and chemistry of material stuff. To make their stories credible scientist first should produce a mosquito from chemicals in their laboratory. We cannot bluff around on the name of science.

According to Vedic scriptures every living entities including bacteria have souls and all of them have the power to uplift their condition but in a human body the soul has more privilege to advance on the spiritual path. Any social structure that denies the human dignity and dooms them to animalistic propensity should be condemned.

The unfortunate fact of modern education is that it gives an impression to students that their goal is to simply earn money and have an enjoying materialistic life. That is why everyone wants a comfortable position to satisfy their esteem ego needs and it that practice you cannot find people who wishfully aspire to be a laborer or farmer. Modern society will always treat a peon and an officer differently because that is the gradation that people get on the basis of their academic credential. Modern education does not teach anything about soul and its equality in nature. It does not say anything about the real goal of human life and modern education is completely bereft of spiritual wisdom.

How a social justice system can be established where laws of physics and chemistry are primary and not the laws of God?

Thanks with Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:32 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

Of course credit goes to plants and the farmers know this much better than us without reaching any high level of consciousness. My point is what Swami Vivekananda and other reformists have made. All souls are equal, spiritual freedom requires the infrastructure in which each soul can pursue its own path. This is not possible when social structures are such that many humans are denied their dignity. So, I feel anyone's reaching higher consciousness if futile unless we can have a socially just society. We need to work for that first. For example in ancient Vedantic sociery, from what I have read (though most of our knowledge goes back to the later Vedantic and not the ancient vedantic) education through youth was free and mandatory for all. Boys and girls went to different ashrama but got the same education. Education included farming, cleaning the premises, cooking, reading the Vedas, and by the end defending up to three thesis. This is better than most PhD requirements in India. Perhaps we cannot practically have this today in India. But some sort of a social justice system is needed to provide equal educational and economic opportunity to all.

Priyedarshi

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi ji

Thank you very much Sir for raising your concern.

Why a farmer and a factory worker cannot uplift their consciousness? Every human has the potential to inquire about his origin and goal of life and this inquiry is not restricted to scientists and philosophers alone. As described in ‘Padam Puran’, “there are 900,000 species living in the water, 2,000,000 non-moving living entities [stavara] such as tree and plants, 1,100,000 species of insects and reptiles, and 1,000,000 species of birds. As far as quadrupeds are concerned, there are 3,000,000 varieties and there are only 400,000 human species.

According to ‘Brahma Vaivarta Purana’, one attains the human form of life after transmigrating through these 8,000,000 species by the process of gradual evolution of consciousness.

Then what should we have to do and how everyone can uplift their consciousness?

It is clearly mentioned in Vedanta Sutra (1.1.1), “one should inquire about the Absolute Truth” and try to understand the boon that you now have in this human form of life. The path to understand the Absolute truth is very difficult; it is sharp like a razor’s edge” (Katha Upanishad 1.3.14). That is the opinion of learned transcendental scholars.

As you said in your reply that … “Surely, farmers can find time to explore consciousness, but as a rule they don't. They have a rough life.

 

Sir, why you are ready to give credit only to farmers but not to the source of origin of those plants, without which even farmers are helpless and they cannot do any cultivation. As food grains are produced from rains and rains are produced by performance of prescribed duties (BG 3.14).

 

According to Srimad Bhagavad-Gita (BG 3.35), as farmer, worker, philosopher, scientist, soldier even a King (BG 3.20) can uplift ones consciousness by doing one’s prescribed duties. Our position is that we respect everything and at the same time we should remain focused on the goal of human life.

 

As you said that “….We are in a privileged position to explore consciousness and go to conferences because the farmers are doing the dirty work for us in feeding us”.

Sir, it’s also not true for all. Those who have comfortable life and big position in society and highly educated in general the tendency is that their false pride stops them to accept the shelter of Supreme Controller and they are happy to live a self-centred life. But those who are in more humble position, they may be farmers and administrators even some great scientist, they can easily accept the process to uplift their consciousness by gradual process and live a simple God-centred life.

 

In one of your past email you have doubted the existence of Soul and you have asked for the proof of soul existence. And I have asked you the proof of "I" and you have not replied. Do you really think that proof of things are only possible the way scientists conceive in empirically or there are some other way?

 

All suggestions and comments are most welcome.

Thanks with Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 8:22 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

I think you have missed my point. We are in a privileged position to explore consciousness and go to conferences because the farmers are doing the dirty work for us in feeding us. Surely there are, I suppose, sadhus who do not eat or those who grow their own food, but these are exceptions. Surely, farmers can find time to explore consciousness, but as a rule they don't. They have a rough life. We dont' have that rough life so we cannot understand. It is not just farmers but also factory workers, construction workers and others without whom we would not comfortably be sitting in our homes and typing on the computers and sharing our views on this forum.

Priyedarshi 

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi Ji,

I appreciate the nice reply of Dr. Kashyap and I want to add the following points

1. Humanitarian point of view itself may be esoteric for farmers and different farmers have their own reason behind cultivation of crops.

2. Scientists think that some biomolecules are the building blocks of life. For them biomolecules are real to understand life. But as explained by Dr. Kashyap, I do not think majority of farmers think that biomolecules are the reality based on which life can be understood.

3. Can humanitarian idea be studied by physics and chemistry alone? What are the physical building blocks of humanitarian idea? If humanitarian idea does not have a physical basis then can we call it unreal?

4. There are farmers who certainly believe that seeds are divine gift and it is not an outcome of human or physical manipulation of matter. They know for sure that they cannot manufacture seeds from soil (chemicals) and seeds come from life (plants). So what is real for scientists is completely different for farmers.

5. So it is wrong to conclude that farmers do not ever get the time to reach the high levels of consciousness. From their own experience of farming they can realize divine. They indeed realize that rain, crops, etc. are divine gifts.

6. Unlike animals, it is human beings who cultivate their food. Animals simply eat and thus the act of farming differentiates us from that of animals.

I also wish to draw your attentions towards a very interesting article entitled “Idols of the Mind vs. True Reality” dated December 27, 2015 written by Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D., Please visit the link below:

http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin/2015/12/27/idols-of-the-mind-vs-true-reality/

​

With Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 8:30 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

If the difference between the real and the unreal is only to be realized at some higher esoteric stages, then, from a humanitarian point of view, it is not very inviting. The farmers who feed us have a sense of the real as adequate rain, their crops coming out fine, and so on, and they do not ever get the time to reach those high levels of consciousness so that they don't realize that rain, crops, etc. aren't really a high level of reality. But lucky for us because if they went off to the higher states to realize what reality is we would not be around here sharing our perspectives on this forum as we would not have anything to eat.

Priyedarshi

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear all Sadhusanga Group Members,

In some of the ongoing discussion in this Forum, 

Priyadarshi Jaitley Ji asked an interesting question in his reply to Avatar Singh https://groups.google.com/d/msg/online_sadhu_sanga/-9GkQS4C8o4/Rv6muFXjAAAJ

*** First, what is the criterion to demarcate the real from the unreal? ***

Priyadarshi Jaitley Ji also had a lot of discussion in recent past about whether there is any real difference between animal and human being. What I feel is that the real for a bacteria is different than that of a fish, with the presumption that they have some concept about what real means. For animals food and other bodily needs, and concepts related to body are only real things. In some humans also we can find the same concept of real. But some elevated humans also try to find "real" beyond body and that may be I think a special ability that human being has. I feel that the demarcation of real from unreal depends on one's advancement and it cannot be same for all.

I read one of the article of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D., published in “Harmonizer” entitled ‘A Unique Insight into the Nature of “Knowing” and of the Concept’, dated September 2010. He wrote that the "Purpose of Hegel’s Phenomenology of Spirit is to demonstrate that is the concept is underlying reality or truth that lies hidden to ordinary knowing. Once the concept is revealed it becomes object of scientific developments in his Encyclopedia of Philosophical Sciences, but because of its absolute nature the concept and its developments are identical while different simultaneously. On the absolute platform opposites are identical in their difference, just as the absolute value of [1] is the same as the absolute value of [-1] in mathematics. To be able to think in terms of absolute knowledge therefore one has to leave the duality of relative knowing or understanding and raise oneself to the level of dialectical unity or Reason”.

In a reply of Vasavada Kashyap Ji to Robert Boyer dated 23 May 2017 in the thread ‘Response to your Question on Bohm’s Theory’ he wrote that …. “As I mentioned in my article, Adi Shankaracharya’s  “Brahm Satyam, Jagat Mithya” sounds good to me. Modern physics already shows the Jagat Mithya, in the sense that the world is made out of fuzzy wave-particle stuff and not illusory rigid material we see around! Physics is not yet at the stage of Brahm Satyam!”

The concept “Brahm Satyam, Jagat Mithya” used by the followers of Adi Sankaracharya, according to this concept we cannot overcome our ignorance by claiming ‘Jagat Mithya’ because we are under illusion and that is true-‘Satyam’. ‘Brahm Satyam’ is also true and we are under illusion is also true.                                       

I like the reply of Mr Robert to Mr kashyap (22 May 2017), he explain about the stages of understanding toward higher states of consciousness with the help of Bohm’s/Hiley theory and Sankhya philosophy from (Vedic literature) Srimad Bhagavatam (canto 3).

In the response of Reply of Mr Robert to Priyedarshi ji (25 May 2017), It is true that acquiring higher knowledge and develop the higher states of Consciousness is the beyond the capacity of humans but it is not lost it is available through the Vedic system.  It is also mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam (4.14.9) and Srimad Bhagavad Gita (18.5) about the procedures by which everyone can be elevated to the spiritual platform and when this is done then people can advance their consciousness and make their lives successful.

Modern Science only studies atoms and molecules, and for scientists "real" means physical and chemical properties of things that they observe around them. But what about life? Is life only a study of physics and chemistry of body of an organism? Or there is something more fundamental reality that is there beyond body? So it is a good concept that Science and Scientist annual event tries to emphasize that the study of Scientist must be included within Science. I think Science should also allow to include some spiritual concepts beyond body to have some real study of life.

With regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta <b...@scsiscs.org> wrote:

Some of the topics under discussion on this list will also be the topics of our presentation in Science and Scientist - 2017:

1. Science is not Sacrosanct and Science Takes Place Within an Orthodox Tradition

2. Neurology, Phrenology, Astrology - The Problem of Correlationism in Modern Science

3. The Unreasonable Relation of Mathematics to Natural Science

4. One can be a Scientific Skeptic of Evolution Theory

5. Beyond the Modern Monolith of Consciousness

6. The False Elephant and the False Ego

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute

+91-(9748906907)

Donate  www.scsiscs.org

#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

On Monday, 8 May 2017 3:57 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dr Mahendra Kumar Taneja

Happy to know that you are also interested in joining this upcoming Science and Scientist 2017 conference at Kathmandu. It will be good to know the different important topics/views that different participants in this event are planning to present so that we can have some discussion on those topics in this Sadhu Sanga egroup platform and it will help us refine and refresh our views. I will send soon some details about the ideas that I am trying to put together in a paper format for this event.

With Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

Thanks

I am interested 

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

You are right Sir that Indian Philosophy is rich with diverse schools of thoughts, for further reference we can read the details given by (H.H.) Dr B.M. Puri Maharaja in the article “SIDDHANTA” [Advaita, Dvaita, Visisadvaita, Acintya Bheda-Abheda Tattva, Matter, Ego, Maya, Consciousness, Spirit] so that we can understand these subjects more precisely. http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga /?download=SIDDHANTA.pdf

There is no conflict between these Schools of thoughts because according to one’s understanding and developing stages of consciousness one adopt a different kind of philosophy. When he/she cross that developmental stages then only one can enter and could understand the next higher kind of stages. In Indian Philosophy there is possibility for everyone to elevate their consciousness by following the different kind of process which is most suitable and soothing according to our present stage. 

Sir, I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings. My intention is not like that. You are much experienced than me. But I thought this is a very good and authentic forum ‘sadhu-sanga’ and we have also a great platform like annual conference of ‘Science and Scientist-2017’. By debating and discussion we can learn so many things from so many learned peoples like you. As a Human being our aim is same

“Find the Root and Watering the Root”.

I hope we could have more fruitful discussion during “Science and Scientist-2017” Conference in Kathmandu.

 

Thanks with regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​o​

n Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 9:28 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shilpi,

I wish I had your confidence when I was young like you. I still don't have it. But you are obviously in some high level of deep thinking of a philosophical plane to decide that Lokayata is a poor philosophy. One of my senior colleagues, V. P. Verma wrote a book on Indian atheism and won the Birla prize for the book on Hindi. Indian philosophy is rich with diverse schools that are Nastik, do not accept the existence of God. I am afraid you have a very narrow conception of what Indian philosophy is. Indian philosophy on the whole is never dogmatic or doctinaire like you claim it to be. History of atheism is much richer in the history of Indian philosophy than it is in Western philosophy. You would be hard pressed to find atheistic schools in Western philosophy before the 18th century. I have been doing shallow thinking philosophy for 45 years and will continue to do so but I will still not accept the existence of a soul or a non material consciousness. And I am not the only one. There are a lot of inferior to you and shallow thinking philosophers who are in the same boat as I am. In fact, a lot of the concepts of God, Divinity, Theism, and so on which are currently used to spell out some of the Indian texts are imported from the West. The literal meaning of 'Theism' is not there in ancient Indian texts. Unfortunately, a person I admired a lot, and met a few times when I was a child, Radhakrishnan, is partially responsible for the Christianizing of Hinduism and of Indian philosophy. Advaita is not the paradigm of either Hinduism or Indian philosophy as it came much later, at the fag end of when the activity of Indian philosophy with vicious debates among schools and within schools came to an end and since then Indian philosophy has become stagnant as your dogmatic statements clearly indicate.

Priyedarshi

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi ji,

It’s nice to be in touch with you again. Thanks for your reply.

In Indian philosophy there is no prominent objective-subjective duality because we do not deny the fact that apart from gross body, mind, consciousness, soul and God do exist. We do not deny the existence of subtle plane just because we do not sense them by our gross senses. But somehow Western thought and its brainchild modern science keep on denying the existence of any reality beyond gross body.

I can establish you through the most authentic and scientific ‘Vedic literatures’. Vedic literatures have attracted the attention of some world’s finest scientific minds such as Erwin Schrodinger, Robert Oppenheimer, Albert Einstein and many more.

Some references from Vedic Vedic literature about the Existence of soul:

[Srimad Bhagavad-gita(Bg)Chapter 2.16,17, 20,22,23,24], [Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3.31], [Svetasvatara Upanisad 5.9], [Katha Upanisad 1.2.20]. Please read in detail if you really want to know the existence of soul.

I want to ask you one question on your comment that I presume the existence of soul. Do you also not presume that you exist? You have used the word "I" many time in your reply. Do you also not presume that "I" exist? What is your prove that "I" exist. If you can know the prove behind "I" then you will naturally get the prove behind soul.

I am seeing that you are discussing much on philosophy and doing real philosophy needs deep thinking and I hope that you will not ask me to prove the existence of thinking. How gross and subtle planes are linked is the question that science and philosophy should discuss and not about to prove of their existence. But many are confused on simple things because of bad education that we are getting from materialistic science and poor philosophy like Lokayata. Lokayata is stated to be the Hindu school where there is "no God, no samsara (rebirth), no karma, no duty, no fruits of merit, no sin (Haribhadrasūri (Translator: M Jain, 1989), Saddarsanasamuccaya, Asiatic Society, OCLC 255495691).

Science and philosophy are not here to confuse us even on simple things. At present science/philosophy are only a medium of making money and do not have any real values and deep spiritual insights. We have to focus on some verses of vedic literature, Vedanta-sutra 1.1.1, Srimad Bhagavatam 1.1.2, and Katha Upanisad 1.3.14, then only we can understand the real purpose of Human life in a right perspective.

It is really good to see so much of nice and insightful discussions on this forum and “Science and Scientist-2017” will be good platform to meet personally with the participants of this forum so that they can clarify the differences that they have on certain issues.

 

Thanks with regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 3:46 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shilpi,

Many, including some in this group do not accept the objective-subjective distinction as you describe it and hold it. I do not understand how you jump from this distinction to holism. In the holistic perspective the sujective-objective distinction is perhaps dissolved. Before you talk about the soul, which you simply assume exists, you must in some way establish its existence and not simply assume it. Otherwise there can be no debate on whether or not the soul exists. And these debates have been there in the history of Indian philosophy as I have given evidence of it with the Lokyata perspective. All these perspectives have been around. I am saying nothing new.

Priyedarshi

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

 

Your email content is reflecting two gross ways for understanding, one is mainly for Objective approach and other is Subjective.

 

From a purely professional level Science would not progress if it will not approached with specialization. But we need objective approach only for our livelihood but after achieving our professional positions like Professor and Scientist we also need wholistic approach and this approach is not exclusive. What way we can do real good to our true being is also a part of real scientific study. Analytical (Objective) study and theoretical (Subjective) study both should go together then only we could understand the whole reality.

 

How science can be wholistic if it excludes the study of Scientist (soul) and souls of all souls (Supreme God)? And as far as I know this is also the main purpose of ‘Science and Scientist-2017’ Conference: http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017

 

We as finite being cannot understand and represent the Whole that accommodate everything in it. Only Absolute can Harmonize everything. Therefore, we have to change our concept from self-centered exploitation to the God-centered dedication. One process is to find the root and next process to water the root (Srimad Bhagavad-Gita 5.4).

 

I am planning to submit a paper for this conference and would like to present the same if accepted. Hope that you and other list members of this group can also join this event and we can have some fruitful dialogue at Kathmandu during the conference.

 

With regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 6:26 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mohan,

If the holistic approach is the correct approach and a piecemeal specialized analytic detailed approach is the incorrect approach, then you would have a paradox as the holistic approach would not be holistic but exclusive. Science, on the whole, would not progress, if it wasn't for greater and greater specialization. Yet, there is an objective of the unity of science even with specialization. But in no way can specialization be marginalized at the cost of holism.

Priyedarshi

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dr Dhirendra Sharma

Your statement "TRUTH IS ONE BUT  INTERPRETENDED  DIFFERENTly BY  SCHOLARS" seems  perfectly correct. To  "one truth" everybody has agreed. With regard to the "different interpretation to it  by scholars"  would be, I guess, will be gradually narrowed down,  the more we new sincere scholars take  wholistic approach. Since Science and Scientist is meant for it, this forum will, I guess, enable us to arrive in a juncture from where we can start seeing  the truth more clearly.

Thank you for your interest to the upcoming conference.

Sincerely yours

Mohan Kharel

     

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Dhirendra Sharma <dhiren....@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Prof. Kharel:  In 21st century, evolving globalisation Space Age,  the International Science  and Scientists Conference- 2017, can provide scientific -cultural mantra  for the future generation. But your  one-dimentional pre-condition 
suggests  that  you  aim to endorse a specific Theological belief system of the ancient  Indian scientists ( Rishis).

E.g.,  you say.." confirming some of the important concepts of life from the Vedantic perspective. The main theme of the conference is “Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self”,

and that ..."  Physical scientists fail to study these higher categories of reality ..The Vedānta-sūtra advises, .. athāto brahma jijñāsā, until you reach brahma, the underlying spiritual source,
 janmādy asya yatah, the fountainhead where all inquiry will reach its purpose...."
-------------------

 

I  am Shastri in Nyaaya( Logic),  Nyaaya-Tirtha,  and     Ph.D.,  University of London(1960),“The Paradox of Negative Judgment.”  In General Physics: How do we know: the Dark Matter = the Absence  of  Matter (Reality) and Existence of  Non-Entity.

First they  will Laugh on you then they will threaten you and then they will follow you.
                                                                                                                GANDHI...........

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Mohan Kharel <mohankh...@gmail.com> wrote:

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (mohankh...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Fifth International Conference SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017 Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self

August 17, 2017 — August 18, 2017

Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi - Kathmandu, Nepal

www.scsiscs.org/conference/sci enceandscientist/2017

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute, Bangalore in collaboration with the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology (NAST), Nepal Academy, Central Department of Biotechnology, Tribhuvan University, and Kathmandu University are organizing the ‘Fifth International Conference ‘Science and Scientist - 2017’ during August 17 – 18, 2017 at Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kamaladi – Kathmandu, Nepal. This conference will be organized under the chairmanship of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. (Serving Director, Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture and Science, Princeton, NJ, USA). Conference details can be found at: www.scsiscs.org/conference /scienceandscientist/2017

 

Conference Registration details

The registration details have been given at the conference webpage:

http://scsiscs.org/conference/ index.php/scienceandscientist/ 2017/schedConf/registration

 

The last date for early registration is July 10, 2017.

 

Accommodation

Kathmandu is well connected by air. Buses are also available from Delhi, Varanasi, Raxaul, Siliguri, Sunauli (Bhairava), Nepalgunj (near Lucknow). Kathmandu climatic condition during August: Temperature 18 - 28 ⁰C. Accommodation facility will be arranged for all registered delegates arriving from outside Kathmandu valley. Indian delegates do not need VISA. However, they have to carry authentic identity proof.

 

Technical Paper Submission and Proceedings of Science and Scientist – 2017

The organizers invite submission of articles within 5000 words and after a review process the author of selected articles will be intimated for presentation (for those international delegates who cannot come physically to the conference venue an online presentation facility is also arranged) in the conference. All accepted papers will be published in the proceedings of Science and Scientist – 2017. The last date for article submission is 2nd July, 2017.

 

Please submit your article online at the submissions link given in the conference webpage.

http://scsiscs.org/conference/ index.php/scienceandscientist/ 2017/schedConf/cfp

 

Conference Theme

The conference will feature leading scientists from Nepal, India and Western countries, who will deliberate on various topics which will be valuable for developing a better understanding of the “hard” problems of science such as the nature and origin of life and the cosmos, the mind-brain connection, artificial intelligence and cognitive biology which is confirming some of the important concepts of life from the Vedantic perspective. The main theme of the conference is “Working Together Toward a Spiritual Science of the Conscious Self”.

 

Darwinism, or the original theory of evolution proposed by Darwin 150 years ago in his Origin of Species, in which he introduced the idea of natural selection, was laid to rest about a half century ago when it was succeeded by the neo-Darwinian theory involving genetic mutation and natural selection, also known as the modern synthesis. Since then an endless stream of textbooks, courses, media presentations and “genetic toolkits” have been used to indoctrinate students and the public with these ideas causing many to give up their religious conviction in God or the soul as integral to their understanding of life. However, with the advancement of science, especially in the field of biology, more detailed knowledge of the genes and genome have revealed a far more complex dynamic relation between the genome and phoneme and its environment than can be explained by appeal to simple genetic mechanisms. Therefore, French biologist Dr. Didier Raoult concluded:

 

“Genetic research, in particular, must be free to find new models to explain, and enhance, twenty-first-century scientific discovery. Today, Darwin’s theory of evolution is more a hindrance than a help, because it has become a quasi-theological creed that is preventing the benefits of improved research from being fully realized.”

 

Descartes laid the philosophical groundwork for the modern scientific period by separating subjective cognition from objective bodies, thereby also dividing epistemology from ontology reducing knowing to indifferent “observation.” This is the perspective of consciousness and its object, of which material science only imperfectly studies the object. In reality these two are not separated but dialectically related and sublated in the higher comprehending original unity of self-consciousness. Physical scientists fail to study these higher categories of reality and are therefore left with an incomplete understanding of a mere superficial nature that is inadequate to comprehend the core truth. But scientific, rational inquiry will not stop until a comprehensive idea is reached that is coherent with the full range of our knowledge of life. That spectrum of knowledge is not circumscribed merely by chemistry, physics and mathematics. Thus Vedānta-sūtra advises, that you will have to continue your search, athāto brahma jijñāsā, until you reach brahma, the underlying spiritual source, janmādy asya yatah, the fountainhead where all inquiry will reach its purpose. Then beyond knowledge Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will guide us to the ultimate search – raso vai saḥ, the search for our highest fulfillment, sweetness and love.

 

Modern science, or inquiry into the unknown, had its beginnings in the Christian West because of a faith that Reason or rational principles could be found in God’s creation. It is the task of Science and Scientist – 2017 to understand why modern science today has turned away from and failed to comprehend this Reason in the world, that is similar to the nous that Anaxagoras conceived as ruling the world. Eclipses of the Sun were once predicted using the geocentric epicycles of Ptolemy. They are now described in terms of the heliocentric orbits of Copernicus. Some ancients knew that they could chase away the Moon dog from eating the Sun god whenever they would beat their gongs. Each of these examples have something correct or confirming about them even though they imagine different realities corresponding to them. Newton’s conception of the solar system included God as necessary to guide the alchemical vitality that was intrinsic to the order and movement in the universe. The mathematical bones of Newton’s Principia were abstracted by modern physics and converted into a mechanical model of the universe. The apparently same corresponding observations were used to validate both theories although they referred to very different imagined realities. A map corresponds to an actual terrain and can help one navigate one’s way through the real terrain depending on its accuracy. However, the map can never be considered a substitute for the actual terrain since a two dimensional visual map can never represent the lived actuality that is experienced in a real terrain. A reflection of reality in a mirror may accurately depict the objects being reflected, but one who makes a journey “through the looking glass” will not discover the real world but a wonderland of mere exaggerated imaginations like Lewis Carroll’s Alice did. Atomic Theory and Quantum Theory provide imagined wonderlands that possess some observations or correspondence with true reality. To some degree each is logical, self-consistent and complete, although Gödel would object to either being at the same time consistent and complete.

 

If we carefully consider what science is doing here, we discover that anthropocentric or egocentric conceptions of reality – reality as it is “for us” or for me – are being erected in place of true reality as it is “by itself and for itself.” In other words, a subjective conception/theory that is “for us” is being erected as a reality “in and for itself” yet is actually opposed to objective reality as it is in and for itself. It seeks and has some correspondence with true reality and if the subjective conception corresponds with the objective reality the truth is considered to have been reached. This is called the correspondence theory of truth. However, there are problems with this as we noted above, in that different theories may have some correspondence with objective observations and yet still refer to different imagined realities. The real problem arises when these different Idols of the Mind [Man-made images/ideas/conceptions that are for us in our subjectivity] are presumed to be outwardly objective and venerated as the True Reality [Reality “as it is” or “by itself and for itself”]. Explanations consist of descriptions in terms of the chosen theories assumed as real, even though they are abstractions from the true reality. Because they are abstractions, they never comprehend the concrete reality they merely represent.

 

Generally the struggle of Science is an outcome of the thinking which never considered the possibility that the logic of reality could actually be contradictory by nature. However in Quantum Physics, it is experimentally observed that subatomic particles display both wave and particle behavior. This implies a contradictory feature is contained in the same object. Similarly in biology, the idea of the integration or unity of consciousness is essential if one wants to comprehend what the true idea of consciousness represents. Science has learned that it cannot ignore the role of the conscious scientist in its exploration of reality even though the realization is still in a very primitive stage as might be expected for any beginner.

The Sri Isopanishad explains that the Complete Whole can produce complete wholes from itself without losing its completeness. Absolute has no restriction as to how many wholes it can produce out of itself. The only restriction comes from the finite awareness and thinking of a finite intellect that tries to determine what the Absolute can or cannot do. The Absolute must always be the result of pure reason based on logic and evidence of an unbiased nature that is not influenced by one-sided beliefs and prejudices.

 

‘Science and Scientist – 2017’ aims at highlighting the fact that modern scientific research and development seem to be leading to a detente between science and the more spiritual ideas of soul and God as found in all world religions. The progress of science continues to leave behind old and outworn ideas and embrace more comprehensive ones that may more adequately express life and its origin. The Spiritual concepts can help modern science to explore the reality of a spiritual conscious self as the foundation of life and all the questions of origin of life and evolution should be viewed from a more spiritual concept. To judge good and bad by our self-centered perspectives will not bring us closer to Truth but entangle us further in the misconception of separate interest. Withdrawing from reality to be with one’s subjective thought alone, is a detachment from the substantial content of True Reality and becomes a conceit or superiority to it. This type of freedom from the content must be given up, and instead of arbitrarily directing the content of one’s own thought one’s freedom should be sunk into and pervade the content of reality, letting thought be directed and controlled by Reality’s own proper nature of which our essential selves are but a part and manifestation. We do not lose anything thereby except our false sense of self [false ego], but rather gain our true identity and real freedom. Free agency does not reside in us as separated from reality, but within true reality itself in which we participate. The comparative studies of different ideas are essential and it will educate and enlighten Science like never before. Religion teaches all to surrender to God, the Supreme Reality, from Whom reason and wisdom originate. Wisdom is not a property of the universe, although we find life and intelligence in Nature. It is a quality of a Person, the Divine Personality of Godhead. Just as consciousness and intelligence pervade our body’s activities, so God’s Personal energy pervades and forms the whole Reality with life and intelligence. Not only does religion teach surrender of our false egos to the true Reality of God, but also teaches us how to learn by attending to revelation of the truth in order to know it, rather than encouraging the tendency impose and project one’s self imaginings onto reality, taking oneself as a separate subjective agent against a passive objectivity that lacks its own agency and ability to reveal itself. Reality as possessing personal agency can reveal Godself to us if we adopt the attentive patience that allows the veils of self-centered egotism to dissolve by practice of meditation, surrender and service. Reality is by itself and for itself, means that the Absolute (God) is its own origin and has its own purposes for itself. 

We are looking forward for your early response and active participation in Science and Scientist - 2017 at Kathmandu, Nepal. Thanking you. Your sincerely, Prof. Mohan Kharel Central Department of Biotechnology Tribhuvan University, Kathmandu, Nepal

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Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2016
August 17—18, 2017
Nepal Prag

...

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----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2017
 

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Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j. als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/ 19420889.2015.1085138
 
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Fifth International Conference
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Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

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Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
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Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

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----------------------------
Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
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Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
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Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org
 
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Fifth International Conference
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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shilpi,

I am afraid that you make the same mistake most postmodernists do, that is to oversimplify matters for your purposes. You mix science with the perceptions of science, especially as they are used by non scientists. Kalam was a scientist, did he say that physcis and chemistry are dictators. How many physicists or chemists say that they have solutions for our problems and how to bring about social justice? One could demand that scientists get involved in bringing about social justice. And the same demand can be made for spiritual and religious leaders. But that is another matter. Scientist, like C. V. Raman, are mainly spending all their time with research, they do not have time to run the world as you accuse them of. Please give me example of one scientist who says that physics and chemistry solves all the problems of the world. You are also mixing education of science with science and scientists. Scientists are not responsible for the education system. Governments, bureaucrats and educationists are responsible for it. Some of these have studied science but are not scientists by any means. Your blanket condemnation of science should also be a condemnation of medicine and treatment that I am sure have saved or prolonged the lives of some of your family members. And it it wasn't for science we would not be communicating through internet.

Priyedarshi

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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

Well, I think you are either conceiving modern science incorrectly or intentionally avoiding its metaphysical stand. No scientific literature makes it clear that science is a very limited practice and it cannot address all the problems of human society. Science interferes in all affairs including study of human nature and psychology. When scientists assert that life is dominated by physics and chemistry (say for example a reputed biologist from India Prof. M.R.N. Murthy wrote in his recent email on this list “laws of physics and chemistry dominate life”) then do you expect that we can separate a human act ‘social justice’ from physics and chemistry?

Modern society including education runs on the authority of science and unfortunately governments, bureaucrats and educationists often lack substantial knowledge to separate the scientific bluff from scientific facts. Thus our education and society follows the vision that scientists provide. You are correct that science should be credited for what it has done in the field of technology but that does not give science license to manipulate and doom the human society to barbaric animalistic propensity.

If we are ready to respect scientists and farmers for their role in society then we should also give proper honor for God and His divine gift – ‘mother nature’. Nature is not our property that we can exploit as per our wish. We have to have a vision that can genuinely cultivate respect for every living entity and nature, and I honestly feel that is not possible without a theistic view.

Thanks with Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shilpi,

You said that Murthy said that "laws of physics and chemistry dominate life". He may think that science is being overpowering. But I repeat please tell me where a scientist is in top decision making positions in the world and is doing such domination like politicians who are not scientists. And please find a quotation from a scientist who says: "laws of physics and chemistry dominate society". Unless you do this, you are engaging in hearsay rather than truth.

Priyedarshi

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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shilpi,

Again you are missing the point. I asked you to name some scientists who say that science solves all human problems. I would be surprised if any scientist said that. Hence, it is a simple strawman and a false accusation. Please use some quotations from scientists whom you are condemning on the whole that gives viability to your charges against scientists. You are simply shooting blanks. 

Priyedarshi

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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear Professor Priyedarshi Jetli ji

Namaskar.

You have asked: And please find a quotation from a scientist who says: "laws of physics and chemistry dominate society"

Perhaps a good beginning for this quest will be to reflect upon this statement of Francis Crick in Of Molecules and Men:

"The ultimate aim of the modern movement in biology is in fact to explain all biology in terms of physics and chemistry"

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shilpi and Shanta,

I think I am being misunderstood. The thrust of my critique is that if spirituality and the study of consciousness is to be studied or promoted as a science or as experiences or through Vedic scriptures, then it should be done positively as there is a lot there to do positively. It should not be pursued polemically or negatively by bashing science as if science is fascist. And there is a further problem as in this bashing of science, some scientist or some theory is taken to be representative of all scientists and all science. This is a simple strawman and will get you nowhere.

Priyedarshi

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:43 AM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

This is part of a scientific reduction program that not everyone agrees with. In any case it is reduction of the objects and laws of biology to those of chemistry and physics. Ultimately chemistry is also in this manner to be reduced to  physics. 

However, your claim, as I remember was not about this but it was that "physics and chemistry domIinate life." Biology is also science and Crick's remark is at best the domination of physics and chemistry over other sciences. 

You also questioned earlier "how laws of physics and chemistry are primary and laws of God are not?"

I assume that laws of physics and chemistry are primary to explain the domain of the universe that they do explain. Your bottom line, I take it, is that consciousness is beyond the realm of explanation of physics and chemistry. I do not think that all scientists would disagree with this. On this forum, some say that consciousness is not beyond science, others say that consciousness is primary and causally supervenient over the physical world and a whole lot of other views are being expressed. All are plausible perspectives that can be debated.

Within each science there are a lot of controversies and the science journals are full of debates on them.

For some reason you construct a monolithic picture of science and also assume that there is always a consensus among all scientists about all issues. This is not the case especially with consciousness as we have seen on this forum itself.

You continue to insist that science and scientists are controlling and dominating society and our day to day lives. I have asked you to name some scientists, or even doctors, who are in positions of power like Donald Trump and Narendra Modi, whose policies do govern our day to day lives. I am still waiting for this.

I fail to understand your misscientist hatred of science. I though many on the spiritual side would rather make the study of consciousness scientific rather than condemn science like you do.

Priyedarshi

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[Mohan Kharel]

Dear Prof Dr Oliver Manuel

It was very nice to hear  that  you ( This repeats the message sent earlier)  and your team members are willing to participate in Science and Scientist 2017 conference that is going to be held in Kathmandu, Nepal. Hence you and you team members are most welcome  to visit in our beautiful city Kathmandu and participate in  the Conference. We are sure your and your teams'  deep and insightful deliberation will definitely enlighten  to all of us who are participating in the conference for learning science of consciousness. As usually there used to be no visa problem, we  wish  to have your own self  participation along with your team’s (as much as it is possible); as other members’ participation is equally important for us.

Please kindly note that the conference will be held in 18-19 August, 2017, but not 17-18 August 2017, the later date was mistakenly printed.

Hoping to see you in the conference.

 

Thank you

Sincerely Yours

Mohan Kharel

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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shanta,

By mistake I responded to this thinking it was from Shilpi. My response stands. When Shilpi quoted Murthi she said "life". I added "society" later as it seemed to me that she was saying that science in general and physics and biology in particular are dominating society.

In either case, in Crick's quotation "biology" refers to the science of biology not to "life" or "society". So, I do not see how this quotation is a response to my demand.

Priyedarshi

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[priyedarshi jetli]

Dear Shilpi,

This is part of a scientific reduction program that not everyone agrees with. In any case it is reduction of the objects and laws of biology to those of chemistry and physics. Ultimately chemistry is also in this manner to be reduced to  physics. 

However, your claim, as I remember was not about this but it was that "physics and chemistry domIinate life." Biology is also science and Crick's remark is at best the domination of physics and chemistry over other sciences. 

You also questioned earlier "how laws of physics and chemistry are primary and laws of God are not?"

I assume that laws of physics and chemistry are primary to explain the domain of the universe that they do explain. Your bottom line, I take it, is that consciousness is beyond the realm of explanation of physics and chemistry. I do not think that all scientists would disagree with this. On this forum, some say that consciousness is not beyond science, others say that consciousness is primary and causally supervenient over the physical world and a whole lot of other views are being expressed. All are plausible perspectives that can be debated.

Within each science there are a lot of controversies and the science journals are full of debates on them.

For some reason you construct a monolithic picture of science and also assume that there is always a consensus among all scientists about all issues. This is not the case especially with consciousness as we have seen on this forum itself.

You continue to insist that science and scientists are controlling and dominating society and our day to day lives. I have asked you to name some scientists, or even doctors, who are in positions of power like Donald Trump and Narendra Modi, whose policies do govern our day to day lives. I am still waiting for this.

I fail to understand your misscientist hatred of science. I though many on the spiritual side would rather make the study of consciousness scientific rather than condemn science like you do.

Priyedarshi

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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear Professor Priyedarshi Jetli ji

 

Namaskar.

 

This point has been already addressed on this forum by our institute's funding director Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. Please go through the post "Scientific Critique of Science (SCS)".

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear Professor Priyedarshi Jetli ji

 

Namaskar.

 

Here are three dictionary definitions of “biology”:

1. the science of life or living matter in all its forms and phenomena, especially with reference to origin, growth, reproduction, structure, and behavior.

2. the living organisms of a region: the biology of Pennsylvania.

3. the biological phenomena characteristic of an organism or a group of organisms

 

All three contradict what you have said “Crick's quotation "biology" refers to the science of biology not to "life" or "society". So, I do not see how this quotation is a response to my demand.”

 

Shilpi’s views about scientists’ stand (in your email you wrote “My response stands. When Shilpi quoted Murthi she said "life". I added "society" later as it seemed to me that she was saying that science in general and physics and biology in particular are dominating society.”) are also correct and José Manuel Rodriguez Delgado’s statement in his book “Physical Control of the Mind” confirms the same:

 

“There are basic mechanisms in the brain responsible for all mental activities, including perceptions, emotions, abstract thought, social relations, and the most refined artistic creations. . . . Predictable behavioral and mental responses may be induced by direct manipulation of the brain.”  

 

Scientists generally view living organisms in two different ways: (1) views of geneticists – organism is an isolated package of different phenotypic characteristics and each of those phenotypic characteristics are mechanically controlled by certain specific genes, and (2) views of molecular biologists – organism is simply an enclosed membrane of chemicals. Molecular biologists believe that their view completely includes the view of geneticists and thus their view brings biology to the domain of physics and chemistry. Like geneticists, neurologists also presume the material basis of consciousness and therefore they want to establish neurons in brain as the basis of consciousness. They have the notion that there is a “neural code” that represents the mind of the organism, which helps the brain to manage synaptic modulation over wide areas of cortex. They believe that the complex brain function is as simple as the operation of a man-made machine—robot—and therefore they hope that in future they can control the living organisms just like a robot. Delgado’s statement that I have quoted above confirms the same.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
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[Oliver Manuel]

Dear Professor Shanta,

This simple, logical error Weizsacker made in calculating atomic nuclear energy in July 1935, and Dr. James Chadwick endorsed in receiving a Nobel Prize on 12 Dec 1935:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Nuclear_Energy_Error7.pdf

caused widespread confusion about the origin of the cosmos, solar system and evolution of radioactive debris from a supernova 5 Ga ago into human life on Earth today.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/HIGHER-POWERZ.pdf

Is this an example of SCS (Scientific Criticism of Science)?

With kind regards,

Oliver K, Manuel

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[Azad Kaushik]

Dear All,

The consciousness is all pervading. At the same time, the essence of society is suppression of individual. This is not inconsistent with the individual consciousness being overtaken by the collective consciousness. So the higher self rules over individual self per se in the nature of things. Hence the debate on scientist and society etc. Is a moot point.

The search for scientific basis of consciousness is a challenge as it is multidimensional and more than just the sum into the whole that makes the universe. The entire cognition, its understanding and perception is associated with the consciousness built upon the scientifically definable laws of what we call spirituality. The consciousness is dynamic and functionally autonomous and, hence, it is all pervading.

Azad

Azad K Kaushik DSc (Paris)

+1 519 760 2297

Sent from my iPhone

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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear All,

Modern science follows the belief that every single object/process in nature can be broken down into its constituent parts/process and can be described scientifically. They thought that by that type of study of the individual constituent part/processes they can understand the whole object/process. For example, a reductionist believes that the complexity of the human brain is a result of complex and interacting physical processes. Hence scientists research and try to understand the underlying chemical reactions, with the belief that they can explain intelligence, emotion and all other human behavior purely on the basis of laws of physics and chemistry. But there are no laws in physics and chemistry that can demonstrate even the origin of this very belief on reductionism that scientists have. Ignoring the inconsiderate nature of their belief on reductionism some scientists even go a step further and proclaim that concepts like “god gene” and “mental virus” which they assumingly claim dictate the religious practice.

Lawrence Maxwell Krauss, an American-Canadian theoretical physicist and cosmologist proclaims for example http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/science/science-and-religion-share-fascination-in-things-unseen.html

“Religious belief that the universe is the handiwork of an all-powerful being is not subject to refutation. This sort of reliance on faith may itself have an evolutionary basis. There has been talk of a “god gene”: the idea of an early advantage in the struggle for survival for those endowed with a belief in a hidden patrimony that gives order, purpose and meaning to the universe we experience.”

Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins insolently proclaims in his book The Selfish Gene that religiousness appears in a human being due to a defective ‘mental virus.’

But while claiming such things scientists basically forget that anyone can follow the same line of immature analysis and claim that “scientific bluff” that we witness prominent in modern science is also an outcome of ‘scientific bluff gene’ or ‘mental virus’. Whether we can call such type of analysis of scientists a science practice or not that is up to the thoughtful scholars to decide but I strongly feel that modern science is monolithically defending material view at any cost. I sincerely condemn that practice on the name of science. 

Even physicists are in constant quest for fundamental particles making up matter and governing the laws of the universe without looking at the object of their study as a whole. Unlike Newtonian physics, modern research takes into account the complex interactions between the particles, rather than looking at them individually. Chaotic systems, such as turbulence, weather patterns and even the behavior of crowds are difficult to explain by the process of scientific reductionism. In addition, in the process of their idolatry studies scientists try to isolate one phenomenon from whole of other reality, but such practice often changes the behavior of real phenomenon. For example, due to our own limitations, it is impossible to measure simultaneously both the position and speed of an electron, because measuring one affects the other. But that is our limitation to conceive things and not the problem of true nature of reality. Therefore, the prominent usage of purest reductionist principles cannot be used to describe anything at fundamental level and they can only be useful for certain utilitarian technological purposes.  Laws of Physics and chemistry can provide different varied descriptions for the sensually observable universe but they can never tell anything conclusive about fundamental truth, Origin of Universe and Origin of life.

With Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.

​​

D, FICCE

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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear Professor Oliver K. Manuel

Namaskar.

Thank you for expressing your keen interest in your previous email to join our upcoming conference "Science and Scientist - 2017", which will be held during 18-19 August, 2017 at Kathmandu, Nepal. 

In this email you have sent two articles in two separate links, which you want to emphasize as Scientific Critique of Science (SCS). In the conclusion section of first article (first link) an interesting point is made "The universe is dynamic and alive" and we agree with the same. We agree that this view is in contrast to what the general mass of modern day scientists traditionally believe and thus will serve as a SCS. However, it will be helpful, if you can explain how you judge something as alive or dead. On what basis we declare that a body is dead or alive? 

In the conclusion section of the second article (second link) it is stated "We are at the beginning of a new awakening to reality and know only a little. More will be revealed if we selflessly practice the basic principles of science for the benefit of humanity". We appreciate this mood of humility and we agree that this attitude is very much essential for attaining the real goal of true science. 

We will be happy to receive you and/or your students at Kathmandu, Nepal, during the conference "Science and Scientist - 2017". Please let us know your travel plans, when they are finalized. For its publication in conference proceeding, you are welcome to submit online your full length paper (within 5,000 words) by visiting the submission link: Call for Papers   

Call for Papers 'Science and Scientist' annual conference series is the premier forum for understanding the limitations ...

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 8:54 AM, Oliver Manuel <omat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Professor Shanta,

This simple, logical error Weizsacker made in calculating atomic nuclear energy in July 1935, and Dr. James Chadwick endorsed in receiving a Nobel Prize on 12 Dec 1935:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent. com/u/10640850/Nuclear_Energy_ Error7.pdf

caused widespread confusion about the origin of the cosmos, solar system and evolution of radioactive debris from a supernova 5 Ga ago into human life on Earth today.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent. com/u/10640850/HIGHER-POWERZ. pdf

Is this an example of SCS (Scientific Criticism of Science)?

With kind regards,

Oliver K, Manuel

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta <b...@scsiscs.org> wrote:

Dear Professor Priyedarshi Jetli ji

 

Namaskar.

 

This point has been already addressed on this forum by our institute's funding director Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. Please go through the post "Scientific Critique of Science (SCS)".

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

On Tuesday, 30 May 2017 4:51 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi and Shanta,

I think I am being misunderstood. The thrust of my critique is that if spirituality and the study of consciousness is to be studied or promoted as a science or as experiences or through Vedic scriptures, then it should be done positively as there is a lot there to do positively. It should not be pursued polemically or negatively by bashing science as if science is fascist. And there is a further problem as in this bashing of science, some scientist or some theory is taken to be representative of all scientists and all science. This is a simple strawman and will get you nowhere.

Priyedarshi

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[Oliver Manuel]

Dear Professor Shanta,

Namaskar.

Thank you for your reply to my inquiry.   My wife, Caroline,  agreed to join me in applying for visas to attend the upcoming conference "Science and Scientist - 2017", which will be held during 18-19 August, 2017 at Kathmandu, Nepal.  However, I seriously doubt if a visa will be issued to me, since my application for a UK visa to attend the London Climate Change Conference on 8 and 9 September 2016 was denied.  I would appreciate any suggestions for expediting the visa application process.

My astronomer friend and colleague, Hilton Ratcliffe, has indicated that he too will be unable to travel to Nepal.  I have no reply from my former students, Srininasan BalaSubramanian or Marcel Pleess, on their availability to travel to Nepal in August to present the papers (recently combined into a single booklet: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Hidden_Higher_Power.pdf )

The Sun's pulsar core is the Creator and Sustainer of every atom and life in the solar system, and it still holds these in continuous harmonic vibration with the Sun's regular 40-minute pulse.   See references #59 and #60 in the paper sent earlier:   

• 59. Thomson, D.J., Lanzerotti, L.J., Vernon, F.L., Lessard, M.R. and Smith, L.T.P. (2007): Solar modal structure of

  the engineering environment. Proceedings of the IEEE, 95 (5): 1085 - 1132. See also the report in ESA Space

  Science News,Moving to the rhythm of the Sun. http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMJJYUL05F_index_0.html

• 
  

• 60.  Toth, P. (1977): Is the Sun a pulsar? Nature, 270: 159-160.

  http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v270/n5633/abs/270159a0.html 

Lives of plants and animals are like lives of radioactive atoms for which Becquerel received a Nobel Prize in 1903. 

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1903/becquerel-lecture.pdf

The average life of any species is measurable, but the actual life of any single radioactive atom cannot be predicted.

I think it no coincidence that life evolved from highly radioactive debris of the supernova that birthed the solar system.

To celebrate President Trump decision to withdraw the US from the UN's Paris Global Climate Agreement today, the two papers I had sent earlier were combined into a single booklet, "A simple logical error in the minds of humans hid the elegant simplicity of the Creator's Mind for eighty-two years."   https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Hidden_Higher_Power.pdf

Again, I appreciate your reply to my inquiry.  

With kind regards,

Oliver K. Manuel

1-573-647-1377

<i>Freely available for atomic, nuclear and particle physicists <b>to criticize, correct or deny IN PUBLIC</b>, instead of hiding behind frightened AGW proponents.</i>

With kind regards,

Oliver K. Manuel

[…]

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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear Professor C.L. Prabhakar,

Indeed the theme of this conference is worthy of attention and as I could understand this is an integrated Scientific approach for acquiring right knowledge about True reality. Happy to know that you are also interested in contributing a paper on Aruna prasna in the Fifth International “Science and Scientist-2017” Conference. I would like to know how the Aruna Prasna explore the Supremacy of Cause of all causes. Modern science looks for the causes in chemicals and physical stuff and the occult forces that are intangible to our senses (tasting, smelling, touching and seeing). It even ignores the causality that is based on mental dictum and inherent purpose in the background. Your explanation on ultimate cause will certainly serve as a critique to the superficial causality that is prominent in modern science.

With Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 2:42 AM, Prabhakar Calyam <clpra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Happy at the theme of the conference exploring the theme going deep into the various faculties of knowledge.

the conference would be successful by opening new vistas of knowledge.

I like to contribute a paper on the knowledge of Science and scientist in the expressions of Yajurveda ,more so the Arunaprasna of Taittiriya Aranyaka. Aruna prasna is exploration of knowledge on Astrophysics, Time, Clouds, Sun stars and the creation mode and supremacy of Purusha the cause for everything inthe universe.

regards,.

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:00 AM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
 
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 

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Dr. C. L. Prabhakar

Director, Vedaadhyayanana Kendra, Bangalore - 78 

President, World Association for Vedic Studies (WAVES), USA, India Branch, Bangalore Chapter 

Professor of Vedas, Hindu University of America, Orlando, FL 

India Ph No: 91-80-26592489 

US Ph No: (614)583-8775 

email: clpra...@gmail.com 

website: http://nvak.tripod.com 

"Oh Agni, give us strength to fight all our misdoings and lead us in the righteous path. We offer you salutations". -RgVeda

--
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Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear Professor Oliver K. Manuel

Namaskar.

Happy to know that you and your wife are joining our upcoming Fifth International Conference "Science and Scientist - 2017" at Kathmandu, Nepal. As you and your wife are coming from USA, both of you can obtain tourist visa on arrival. You can find details about Nepalese Visa at the end of this email.

You have told "Lives of plants and animals are like lives of radioactive atoms for which Becquerel received a Nobel Prize in 1903." and The Nobel Lecture of ANTOINE H. BECQUEREL "On radioactivity, a new property of matter" states:

"there would still be scope to wonder whether the transformation of the atom comprises a slow, spontaneous evolution, or whether it is the result of the absorption of external radiation beyond the range of our senses. If such a radiation were to exist, one could still picture the radioactive substances transforming it without themselves being altered. So far no experiment has confirmed or invalidated these hypotheses."

We are not sure how you would like to compare the process of transformation of radioactive atoms by radioactive decay with the life process of different living entities. Please elaborate the details about your view on this subject. We however know that the bodies of living entities contain radioactive Carbon-14 (C-14) and it is assumed that since the living organisms continually exchange carbon with the atmosphere in the form of carbon dioxide, the ratio of C-14 to C-12 approaches that of the atmosphere. As soon as the living organism dies, the C-14 atoms which decay are no longer replaced, so the amount of C-14 in that once-living thing decreases as time goes on. In other words, the C-14/C-12 ratio gets smaller and the carbon dating clock starts ticking the moment living organism dies.So carbon dating can be used for the dead bodies of living organisms and it cannot be applied to inorganic materials like the radioactive atoms. Those hypothesis that claim about the material origin of life always failed to explain how the inorganic materials transform themselves into a new principle "organic integrated whole". We will appreciate your views on this subject.

Information on Nepalese VISA:

 

The Wikipedia article on "Tourism in Nepal" explains:

"Tourism is the largest industry in Nepal and its largest source of foreign exchange and revenue. Possessing eight of the ten highest mountains in the world, Nepal is a hotspot destination for mountaineers, rock climbers and people seeking adventure. The Hindu and Buddhist heritage of Nepal and its cool weather are also strong attractions."

Tourism is the largest source of foreign exchange and revenue for Nepal and for that reason the Wikipedia article on "Visa policy of Nepal" explains:

"The visa policy of Nepal is relatively liberal, allowing citizens of almost all nations to obtain a tourist visa on arrival."

As you and your wife are coming from USA, both of you can obtain tourist visa on arrival. The article of "Visa policy of Nepal" further states: 

"With the exception of nationals of states mentioned below and holders of refugee travel documents, any foreign national can obtain a tourist visa on arrival. Multiple entry visas can be issued for a duration of stay of 15, 30 or 90 days. Holders of temporary passports are not eligible unless they hold a temporary passport issued by a European Union member state."

It also says:

"Citizens of India do not need a visa to enter Nepal, and can reside permanently as Nepali citizens with no restrictions, because Article 7 the 1950 Indo-Nepal Treaty of Peace and Friendship allows free movement of people between the two nations on a reciprocal basis."

Nepal Visa required in advance for nationals from countries: Afghanistan, Cameroon, Ethiopia, Ghana, Iraq, Liberia, Nigeria, Palestine, Somalia, Swaziland, Syria and Zimbabwe.  

 

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

  

On Thursday, 1 June 2017 8:42 AM, Oliver Manuel <omat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Professor Shanta,

Namaskar.

Thank you for your reply to my inquiry.   My wife, Caroline,  agreed to join me in applying for visas to attend the upcoming conference "Science and Scientist - 2017", which will be held during 18-19 August, 2017 at Kathmandu, Nepal.  However, I seriously doubt if a visa will be issued to me, since my application for a UK visa to attend the London Climate Change Conference on 8 and 9 September 2016 was denied.  I would appreciate any suggestions for expediting the visa application process.

My astronomer friend and colleague, Hilton Ratcliffe, has indicated that he too will be unable to travel to Nepal.  I have no reply from my former students, Srininasan BalaSubramanian or Marcel Pleess, on their availability to travel to Nepal in August to present the papers (recently combined into a single booklet: https://dl.dropboxusercontent. com/u/10640850/Hidden_Higher_P ower.pdf )

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

On Wednesday, 31 May 2017 8:54 AM, Oliver Manuel <omat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Professor Shanta,

This simple, logical error Weizsacker made in calculating atomic nuclear energy in July 1935, and Dr. James Chadwick endorsed in receiving a Nobel Prize on 12 Dec 1935:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent. com/u/10640850/Nuclear_Energy_ Error7.pdf

caused widespread confusion about the origin of the cosmos, solar system and evolution of radioactive debris from a supernova 5 Ga ago into human life on Earth today.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent. com/u/10640850/HIGHER-POWERZ. pdf

Is this an example of SCS (Scientific Criticism of Science)?

With kind regards,

Oliver K, Manuel

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta <b...@scsiscs.org> wrote:

Dear Professor Priyedarshi Jetli ji

 

Namaskar.

 

This point has been already addressed on this forum by our institute's funding director Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. Please go through the post "Scientific Critique of Science (SCS)".

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

On Tuesday, 30 May 2017 4:51 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi and Shanta,

I think I am being misunderstood. The thrust of my critique is that if spirituality and the study of consciousness is to be studied or promoted as a science or as experiences or through Vedic scriptures, then it should be done positively as there is a lot there to do positively. It should not be pursued polemically or negatively by bashing science as if science is fascist. And there is a further problem as in this bashing of science, some scientist or some theory is taken to be representative of all scientists and all science. This is a simple strawman and will get you nowhere.

Priyedarshi

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:43 AM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

This is part of a scientific reduction program that not everyone agrees with. In any case it is reduction of the objects and laws of biology to those of chemistry and physics. Ultimately chemistry is also in this manner to be reduced to  physics. 

However, your claim, as I remember was not about this but it was that "physics and chemistry domIinate life." Biology is also science and Crick's remark is at best the domination of physics and chemistry over other sciences. 

You also questioned earlier "how laws of physics and chemistry are primary and laws of God are not?"

I assume that laws of physics and chemistry are primary to explain the domain of the universe that they do explain. Your bottom line, I take it, is that consciousness is beyond the realm of explanation of physics and chemistry. I do not think that all scientists would disagree with this. On this forum, some say that consciousness is not beyond science, others say that consciousness is primary and causally supervenient over the physical world and a whole lot of other views are being expressed. All are plausible perspectives that can be debated.

Within each science there are a lot of controversies and the science journals are full of debates on them.

For some reason you construct a monolithic picture of science and also assume that there is always a consensus among all scientists about all issues. This is not the case especially with consciousness as we have seen on this forum itself.

You continue to insist that science and scientists are controlling and dominating society and our day to day lives. I have asked you to name some scientists, or even doctors, who are in positions of power like Donald Trump and Narendra Modi, whose policies do govern our day to day lives. I am still waiting for this.

I fail to understand your misscientist hatred of science. I though many on the spiritual side would rather make the study of consciousness scientific rather than condemn science like you do.

Priyedarshi

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 2:58 AM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta <b...@scsiscs.org> wrote:

Dear Professor Priyedarshi Jetli ji

Namaskar.

You have asked: And please find a quotation from a scientist who says: "laws of physics and chemistry dominate society"

Perhaps a good beginning for this quest will be to reflect upon this statement of Francis Crick in Of Molecules and Men:

"The ultimate aim of the modern movement in biology is in fact to explain all biology in terms of physics and chemistry"

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

On Tuesday, 30 May 2017 12:30 AM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

You said that Murthy said that "laws of physics and chemistry dominate life". He may think that science is being overpowering. But I repeat please tell me where a scientist is in top decision making positions in the world and is doing such domination like politicians who are not scientists. And please find a quotation from a scientist who says: "laws of physics and chemistry dominate society". Unless you do this, you are engaging in hearsay rather than truth.

Priyedarshi

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

Well, I think you are either conceiving modern science incorrectly or intentionally avoiding its metaphysical stand. No scientific literature makes it clear that science is a very limited practice and it cannot address all the problems of human society. Science interferes in all affairs including study of human nature and psychology. When scientists assert that life is dominated by physics and chemistry (say for example a reputed biologist from India Prof. M.R.N. Murthy wrote in his recent email on this list “laws of physics and chemistry dominate life”) then do you expect that we can separate a human act ‘social justice’ from physics and chemistry?

Modern society including education runs on the authority of science and unfortunately governments, bureaucrats and educationists often lack substantial knowledge to separate the scientific bluff from scientific facts. Thus our education and society follows the vision that scientists provide. You are correct that science should be credited for what it has done in the field of technology but that does not give science license to manipulate and doom the human society to barbaric animalistic propensity.

If we are ready to respect scientists and farmers for their role in society then we should also give proper honor for God and His divine gift – ‘mother nature’. Nature is not our property that we can exploit as per our wish. We have to have a vision that can genuinely cultivate respect for every living entity and nature, and I honestly feel that is not possible without a theistic view.

Thanks with Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 8:27 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

I am afraid that you make the same mistake most postmodernists do, that is to oversimplify matters for your purposes. You mix science with the perceptions of science, especially as they are used by non scientists. Kalam was a scientist, did he say that physcis and chemistry are dictators. How many physicists or chemists say that they have solutions for our problems and how to bring about social justice? One could demand that scientists get involved in bringing about social justice. And the same demand can be made for spiritual and religious leaders. But that is another matter. Scientist, like C. V. Raman, are mainly spending all their time with research, they do not have time to run the world as you accuse them of. Please give me example of one scientist who says that physics and chemistry solves all the problems of the world. You are also mixing education of science with science and scientists. Scientists are not responsible for the education system. Governments, bureaucrats and educationists are responsible for it. Some of these have studied science but are not scientists by any means. Your blanket condemnation of science should also be a condemnation of medicine and treatment that I am sure have saved or prolonged the lives of some of your family members. And it it wasn't for science we would not be communicating through internet.

Priyedarshi

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi Ji

Credit also goes to farmers who have realized from their own closeness to the nature that it is God who is the source of these seeds which we are using for cultivation. Rivers, rain, mountains, seeds of different life forms and the entire complex cosmos is a divine gift. Whether one accepts it or not that is another issue, but our intuition gives this genuine impression. I do not buy the stories that scientists narrate that everything is just a manipulation of physics and chemistry of material stuff. To make their stories credible scientist first should produce a mosquito from chemicals in their laboratory. We cannot bluff around on the name of science.

According to Vedic scriptures every living entities including bacteria have souls and all of them have the power to uplift their condition but in a human body the soul has more privilege to advance on the spiritual path. Any social structure that denies the human dignity and dooms them to animalistic propensity should be condemned.

The unfortunate fact of modern education is that it gives an impression to students that their goal is to simply earn money and have an enjoying materialistic life. That is why everyone wants a comfortable position to satisfy their esteem ego needs and it that practice you cannot find people who wishfully aspire to be a laborer or farmer. Modern society will always treat a peon and an officer differently because that is the gradation that people get on the basis of their academic credential. Modern education does not teach anything about soul and its equality in nature. It does not say anything about the real goal of human life and modern education is completely bereft of spiritual wisdom.

How a social justice system can be established where laws of physics and chemistry are primary and not the laws of God?

Thanks with Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:32 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

Of course credit goes to plants and the farmers know this much better than us without reaching any high level of consciousness. My point is what Swami Vivekananda and other reformists have made. All souls are equal, spiritual freedom requires the infrastructure in which each soul can pursue its own path. This is not possible when social structures are such that many humans are denied their dignity. So, I feel anyone's reaching higher consciousness if futile unless we can have a socially just society. We need to work for that first. For example in ancient Vedantic sociery, from what I have read (though most of our knowledge goes back to the later Vedantic and not the ancient vedantic) education through youth was free and mandatory for all. Boys and girls went to different ashrama but got the same education. Education included farming, cleaning the premises, cooking, reading the Vedas, and by the end defending up to three thesis. This is better than most PhD requirements in India. Perhaps we cannot practically have this today in India. But some sort of a social justice system is needed to provide equal educational and economic opportunity to all.

Priyedarshi

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi ji

Thank you very much Sir for raising your concern.

Why a farmer and a factory worker cannot uplift their consciousness? Every human has the potential to inquire about his origin and goal of life and this inquiry is not restricted to scientists and philosophers alone. As described in ‘Padam Puran’, “there are 900,000 species living in the water, 2,000,000 non-moving living entities [stavara] such as tree and plants, 1,100,000 species of insects and reptiles, and 1,000,000 species of birds. As far as quadrupeds are concerned, there are 3,000,000 varieties and there are only 400,000 human species.

According to ‘Brahma Vaivarta Purana’, one attains the human form of life after transmigrating through these 8,000,000 species by the process of gradual evolution of consciousness.

Then what should we have to do and how everyone can uplift their consciousness?

It is clearly mentioned in Vedanta Sutra (1.1.1), “one should inquire about the Absolute Truth” and try to understand the boon that you now have in this human form of life. The path to understand the Absolute truth is very difficult; it is sharp like a razor’s edge” (Katha Upanishad 1.3.14). That is the opinion of learned transcendental scholars.

As you said in your reply that … “Surely, farmers can find time to explore consciousness, but as a rule they don't. They have a rough life.

 

Sir, why you are ready to give credit only to farmers but not to the source of origin of those plants, without which even farmers are helpless and they cannot do any cultivation. As food grains are produced from rains and rains are produced by performance of prescribed duties (BG 3.14).

 

According to Srimad Bhagavad-Gita (BG 3.35), as farmer, worker, philosopher, scientist, soldier even a King (BG 3.20) can uplift ones consciousness by doing one’s prescribed duties. Our position is that we respect everything and at the same time we should remain focused on the goal of human life.

 

As you said that “….We are in a privileged position to explore consciousness and go to conferences because the farmers are doing the dirty work for us in feeding us”.

Sir, it’s also not true for all. Those who have comfortable life and big position in society and highly educated in general the tendency is that their false pride stops them to accept the shelter of Supreme Controller and they are happy to live a self-centred life. But those who are in more humble position, they may be farmers and administrators even some great scientist, they can easily accept the process to uplift their consciousness by gradual process and live a simple God-centred life.

 

In one of your past email you have doubted the existence of Soul and you have asked for the proof of soul existence. And I have asked you the proof of "I" and you have not replied. Do you really think that proof of things are only possible the way scientists conceive in empirically or there are some other way?

 

All suggestions and comments are most welcome.

Thanks with Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

​

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 8:22 PM, priyedarshi jetli <pje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shilpi,

I think you have missed my point. We are in a privileged position to explore consciousness and go to conferences because the farmers are doing the dirty work for us in feeding us. Surely there are, I suppose, sadhus who do not eat or those who grow their own food, but these are exceptions. Surely, farmers can find time to explore consciousness, but as a rule they don't. They have a rough life. We dont' have that rough life so we cannot understand. It is not just farmers but also factory workers, construction workers and others without whom we would not comfortably be sitting in our homes and typing on the computers and sharing our views on this forum.

Priyedarshi 

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Dr Shilpi Saxena <drshilpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Respected Priyedarshi Ji,

I appreciate the nice reply of Dr. Kashyap and I want to add the following points
1. Humanitarian point of view itself may be esoteric for farmers and different farmers have their own reason behind cultivation of crops.
2. Scientists think that some biomolecules are the building blocks of life. For them biomolecules are real to understand life. But as explained by Dr. Kashyap, I do not think majority of farmers think that biomolecules are the reality based on which life can be understood.
3. Can humanitarian idea be studied by physics and chemistry alone? What are the physical building blocks of humanitarian idea? If humanitarian idea does not have a physical basis then can we call it unreal?
4. There are farmers who certainly believe that seeds are divine gift and it is not an outcome of human or physical manipulation of matter. They know for sure that they cannot manufacture seeds from soil (chemicals) and seeds come from life (plants). So what is real for scientists is completely different for farmers.
5. So it is wrong to conclude that farmers do not ever get the time to reach the high levels of consciousness. From their own experience of farming they can realize divine. They indeed realize that rain, crops, etc. are divine gifts.
6. Unlike animals, it is human beings who cultivate their food. Animals simply eat and thus the act of farming differentiates us from that of animals.

I also wish to draw your attentions towards a very interesting article entitled “Idols of the Mind vs. True Reality” dated December 27, 2015 written by Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D., Please visit the link below:

http://scienceandscientist.org /Darwin/2015/12/27/idols-of-th e-mind-vs-true-reality/

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Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

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Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017
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Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

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University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

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Fifth International Conference
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Fifth International Conference
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Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

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University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

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Fifth International Conference
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University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

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Fifth International Conference
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Fifth International Conference
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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear Dr. Manuel,

Read an interesting paper 'Origins of Life: A Problem for Physics' https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.08073.pdf

"Over the last four-hundred years of physics as a scientific discipline, we have made tremendous progress in advancing our understanding of the smallest and largest scales in the universe. However, we have made far less headway at the scales of our everyday experience – in the realm of the complex and the biological. We understand more about the structure of an atom, something that we do not directly experience, than we do about how complex physical systems such as yourself should arise and be capable of comprehending this page of text in a meaningful way." 🙂

The problem this paper tries to address suits well to the theme of Science and Scientist conference.

With Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
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[Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta]

Dear thoughtful members of Sadhu Sanga list,

That is really an interesting statement made by "Sara Imari Walker" in her paper "Origins of Life: A Problem for Physics". This quote is indeed very much suitable for the theme of our conference series "Science and Scientist". The visionary and the chair of the 'Science an Scientist' Annual Conference Series Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D. also stated in his message (complete Message From the Conference Chair can be found on the conference home page):

"Science is the body of Man's knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world derived by following a systematic methodology based on evidence. As a body of knowledge, it exists, but not as a mechanical body that can be analyzed in terms of physics and chemistry. Rather, physics and chemistry are subsets of Scientific knowledge that are products of Science. In turn, Science is the product of the rational activity of Scientists. It is the peculiar perversion of modern materialistic science to think they can invert this natural sequence."  

In one of our journal paper "Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view" we have also quoted a similar message from Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja, Ph.D.:

“From the reader's perspective, a book is composed of alphabetical letters; but the book itself did not originate from these letters. Ultimately it is from the ideas of the author that the letters of the book come to be. In the same way, the molecules of a biological organism are the result, not the origin of life. This is the difference between the order in which we come to know things (ordo cognoscendi) and the order in which something comes to be (ordo essendi).”

Thanking you.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.                     Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute
+91-(9748906907)	Donate  www.scsiscs.org
#8, Gopalakrishnan Mansion, Konappana Agrahara, Electronic City, Bangalore, Karnataka, India

My astronomer friend and colleague, Hilton Ratcliffe, has indicated that he too will be unable to travel to Nepal.  I have no reply from my former students, Srininasan BalaSubramanian or Marcel Pleess, on their availability to travel to Nepal in August to present the papers (recently combined into a single booklet: https://dl. dropboxusercontent. com/u/10640850/Hidden_Higher_P ower.pdf )

The Sun's pulsar core is the Creator and Sustainer of every atom and life in the solar system, and it still holds these in continuous harmonic vibration with the Sun's regular 40-minute pulse.   See references #59 and #60 in the paper sent earlier:   

• 59. Thomson, D.J., Lanzerotti, L.J., Vernon, F.L., Lessard, M.R. and Smith, L.T.P. (2007): Solar modal structure of
  the engineering environment. Proceedings of the IEEE, 95 (5): 1085 - 1132. See also the report in ESA Space
  Science News,Moving to the rhythm of the Sun. http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMJJ YUL05F_index_0.html
• 
  
• 60.  Toth, P. (1977): Is the Sun a pulsar? Nature, 270: 159-160.
  http://www.nature.com/nature/j ournal/v270/n5633/abs/270159a0 .html 

Lives of plants and animals are like lives of radioactive atoms for which Becquerel received a Nobel Prize in 1903. 

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobe l_prizes/physics/laureates/ 1903/becquerel-lecture.pdf

The average life of any species is measurable, but the actual life of any single radioactive atom cannot be predicted.

I think it no coincidence that life evolved from highly radioactive debris of the supernova that birthed the solar system.

To celebrate President Trump decision to withdraw the US from the UN's Paris Global Climate Agreement today, the two papers I had sent earlier were combined into a single booklet, "A simple logical error in the minds of humans hid the elegant simplicity of the Creator's Mind for eighty-two years."   https://dl. dropboxusercontent. com/u/10640850/Hidden_Higher_P ower.pdf

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Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

--
----------------------------
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[Oliver Manuel]

Thanks for the message.  

I consider life to be a natural development in the stream of energy outflow from cores of stars, as neutrons - compacted (e-,p+ pairs) become hydrogen atoms - expanded (e-,p+ pairs) that are discharged to fill interstellar space as the universe expands and entropy increases.  

Kuroda realized in AUG 1945 while standing in the ruins of Hiroshima that "the beginning of the world may have been just like this" destruction of Hiroshima and spent his life showing the geochronology of the origin and formation of the solar system, including all forms of life, from the supernova explosion that occurred here ~5.1 Ga ago, making our elements and giving birth to the entire solar system.  

The solar system began as highly radioactive SN debris orbiting a pulsar ~5.1 Ga ago.  The pulsar gravitationally retained an outer layer (photosphere) of pulsar-decay products (H and He) that moderated solar radiation into mostly UV light when life first appeared on Earth ~ 4 Ga ago.  

The Sun, life and the solar system have evolved together into the yellow star that emits mostly visible light that chlorophyll uses in converting CO2 into carbohydrates today. 

The Sun's 40 minute pulsar core still holds every atom, life and planet in continuous harmonic vibration, the probable source of human creativity and a fundamental vibration - Ommmmm.  

[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear Dr Manuel,

Thank you very much for your attention

Science has no idea what the universe is made of and there is also no explanation for how the Big Bang could suddenly arise from nothing or where the energy for inflation (a very short period of rapid growth in the early universe) came from. Furthermore, science does not know ‘what is dark matter’ and ‘what is dark energy’, yet they account for 95% of the energy content of the universe. Ignoring that entire headache of cosmologists, we also know that confirmation bias is the effect where scientists tend to construe data in a manner that leads to a selection of data that they feel authenticates their current beliefs. Your present stand seems to be an outcome of that confirmation bias because you seem to ignore completely the questions that are being raised. We do not see in nature where unseen waves or subatomic stuff getting assembled into nucleuses and atoms. We know that there are atoms but we do not have any justification for the view that atoms can arrange themselves somehow to create all the complex organic stuff that we see in all the living organisms. Even if we agree that somehow the complex molecules came from some permutation and combinations of atoms, still it does not say how those molecules can assemble themselves into a living cell. More bizarre is the claim that somehow first cell appeared from the push and pulls of atoms and then that cell transformed into all different life forms. At least some sanity is necessary in such radical claims and we do not even see that among those who are only busy in imagining castle in the sky. It may be so that an atom may have its own dormant life and it may be also true that the celestial objects like Earth, Sun, Moon, etc. are indeed personalities. Forget about Sun, even all life forms produce so many atoms, even a cell does that. But, we ignore in modern science the spiritual self in the living organisms and focus on just chemical stuff that their bodies made of. Similarly science does not see the spiritual life principle that is the basis of entire reality.

With Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

--
----------------------------

Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017

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[Oliver Manuel]

Dear Dr Shilpi Saxena,

Thank you for your encouraging message 

I do not know, but suspect the Ommmmm sound and human insight and creativity arise from the Sun's pulsar core, as if our distinction between the living animate and nonliving vibrating inanimate is imaginary.  

I do know that: 

1. Atomic, nuclear and particle physics were moving forward smoothly until Chadwick reversed himself in 1935 by stating that the neutron cannot be an electron, proton pair in close combination in accepting a Nobel Prize in 1935;

2. The actual decay energy of every beta decay differs from that predicted by Weizsacker's and Chadwick's 1935 model of the nucleus by exactly 0.782 MeV, the mass difference between the neutron and the hydrogen atom; and

3. The sloping baseline Weizsacker and Chadwick assumed to calculate nuclear binding energies in 1935 effectively reversed the natural direction of cosmic nuclear evolution 

from a.) neutrons => hydrogen atoms

to b.) hydrogen atoms => neutrons

Hopefully by sharing our experiences we will advance our understanding of life, atomic, nuclear and particle physics and Cosmology at the conference. 

All is well,

Oliver 

[David Marjanovic]

Gesendet: Sonntag, 04. Juni 2017 um 23:08 Uhr
Von: "Oliver Manuel" <omat...@gmail.com>
An: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Betreff: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Fifth International Conference "SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017"

[...]

 
> I do not know, but suspect the Ommmmm sound and human insight and creativity arise from the Sun's pulsar core, as if our distinction between the living animate and nonliving vibrating inanimate is imaginary.  

Sorry, I haven't had time to pay attention: why do you think the sun contains a neutron star? Isn't it way too light for that?

And what would the extremely fast rotation of a pulsar have to do with how the brain works?

> I do know that: 
>
> 1. Atomic, nuclear and particle physics were moving forward smoothly until Chadwick reversed himself in 1935 by stating that the neutron cannot be an electron, proton pair in close combination in accepting a Nobel Prize in 1935;

And indeed it isn't:

> 2. The actual decay energy of every beta decay differs from that predicted by Weizs[ä]cker's and Chadwick's 1935 model of the nucleus by exactly 0.782 MeV, the mass difference between the neutron and the hydrogen atom;

Yes, that's the energy carried away by the antineutrino. In beta-minus decay, a neutron decays into a proton, an electron and an antineutrino; the energies all add up, no energy is created or destroyed in this process. In beta-plus decay, a proton (which forms part of a nucleus with many protons and few neutrons; isolated protons are stable to the best of anyone's knowledge) decays into a neutron, a positron and a neutrino; again the energies all add up, again no energy is created or destroyed in this process.

More precisely, a neutron consists of two down quarks and an up quark, and a proton of two up quarks and a down quark; beta-minus decay is the decay of a down quark into an up quark and a W- boson, which in turn becomes an electron and an antineutrino. Beta-plus decay is the decay of an up quark into a down quark and a W+ boson, which in turn becomes a positron and a neutrino. W bosons are much heavier than protons or neutrons; this is the limiting factor in beta decay – although energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can be borrowed; the more is borrowed, the faster it has to be given back. All this is a consequence of Heisenberg's uncertainty relation and has been understood for decades.

> and
>
> 3. The sloping baseline Weizs[ä]cker and Chadwick assumed to calculate nuclear binding energies in 1935 effectively reversed the natural direction of cosmic nuclear evolution

>
> from a.) neutrons => hydrogen atoms
> to b.) hydrogen atoms => neutrons

"Evolution" is a technical term of biology. It means descent with heritable modification. There is no descent, no inheritance and no modification here, so what do you mean? Evolution also doesn't have a direction.

If you mean to say that it's the normal course of things for neutrons to become hydrogen atoms rather than the other way around, I have to mention that the electron in beta-minus decay carries a lot of kinetic energy; rather than forming part of a hydrogen atom with the proton, it moves away at very great speed. This is why beta-minus radioactive materials are dangerous if you come close enough to them: they bombard you with electrons that damage your molecules, including for instance your DNA.

The formation of neutron stars (including pulsars of course) is the same thing as beta-plus decay: pushing an electron into a proton is the same as hurling a positron out of a neutron. Supernovas involve the emission of huge amounts of neutrinos.

Finally, may I make a request to everyone? Please don't keep the entire thread in every response you write. Delete the parts you aren't responding to. Some of the messages in this group are a megabyte long without even containing any attachments. This endless repetition benefits nobody and periodically shuts my inbox down.

[Oliver Manuel]

Dear Professor Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta.

Namaskar.

We contacted kimkim about making our travel arrangements for the conference.  https://www.kimkim.com/d/nepal?utm_source=adwords&utm_campaign=nepal&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=travel%20to%20nepal&gclid=CjwKEAjw387JBRDPtJePvOej8kASJADkV9TLxoFgKQMGBGlfTrYMbGJyzxmCblJiiGiN2PXWhVkNERoCt2Lw_wcB

Will you have facilities available there for powerpoint presentation of papers?  Please let us know if you have any recommendations for housing at the Conference.  We look forward to seeing you in Kathnamdu on August 18 and 19, 2017.  

With kind regards,

Oliver K. Manuel  

Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
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[Serge Patlavskiy]

-

David Marjanovic <david.ma...@gmx.at> on June 5, 2017 wrote:

>Yes, that's the energy carried away by the antineutrino.

[S.P.] There was a need to save the laws of energy conservation and angular momentum during beta-decay and, therefore, the idea of neutrino was issued by Wolfgang Pauli. However, if to suggest a model in which energy does not transmit from one body to another body, the idea of neutrino/antineutrino will become redundant.

[David Marjanovic] wrote:

> In beta-minus decay, a neutron decays into ...

> In beta-plus decay, a proton ... decays into ...

[S.P.] The problem here is with the word "decay". Here, "decay" is not a case of decomposition when the initial Whole decomposes into parts, debris, or constituent building blocks. It would be incorrect to state that a neutron "consists of" a proton, an electron and an antineutrino, because the phrase "to consist of" pertains to decomposition. The idea that the object A consists of the objects B, C, D, and, at the same time, the object B consists of the objects A, E, F is counterintuitive.

So, here, instead of "decay" we should talk about transmutation. In other words, we need a model which differs from a decompositional one. 

[David Marjanovic] wrote

> "Evolution" is a technical term of biology.

[S.P.] "Transmutation", or "trans"+"mutation" -- is it another technical term of biology? But it is widely used in Physics, and the word "mutation" pertains to evolutionary matters in Biology. 

With respect,

Serge Patlavskiy

---

From: David Marjanovic <david.ma...@gmx.at>
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Fifth International Conference "SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017"

<abridged>

Вірусів немає. www.avast.com

[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear Dr Oliver,

 

I am indeed looking forward to meet you at Kathmandu and we can share our views on this subject during 'Science and Scientist – 2017'Conference. I feel Science and Scientist annual conference is a unique platform that provides scope for the scientists to express their honest views without any prejudices.

 

I have no problem to accept your belief that the celestial object Sun indeed has a personality and he may chant AUM (ॐ) sound and can provide insight and knowledge of creativity to human beings. The sloka 4.1 of Bhagavad-gita supports the same view, where it is stated that the Origin of everything, Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krishna reveals that

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit

 

Translation:  The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku.

 

Regarding the origin of Neutron I am not sure whether any such real entity called neutron really exists and even if we assume that it exists, we cannot pick such an entity on the tip of a needle to analyze the same in isolation from all other stuff. So it is highly contentious to contemplate about the origin of such a spurious entity. I have asked in my earlier email that what kind of magic can bring so many protons together in a nucleus of elements with higher atomic number. But I have not received any answers from you and other members on this list. Perhaps no one knows the clear answer for the same and yet we believe that somehow they came together by evolution and binding energy keeps them intact.

That is the kind of naive scientific rationality that we practice and yet we claim the superiority of our scientific methodology over other branches of knowledge like arts, philosophy and religion. I am asking all of those who believe the evolution the following straight questions:

If evolution is the cause of everything then

1.      Why all the atoms of different elements of periodic table monotonically follow only a single pattern where there is a nucleolus containing protons and neutrons, and electrons move around nucleus? If evolution is true then there can be unlimitedly many other patterns for atoms. Evolution could have produced many types of atoms which can follow different patterns of arrangements than the monolithic pattern for atom that we portray.  

2.      Why there are only two charges (positive and negative) and not many more (you can give the names whatever you like to those charges)?

3.      Why a magnet has only two poles and not many?

4.      Why there are only five senses (eye for sensing the colour, ear for sound, tongue for taste, skin for touch and nose for smell) and not many more?

5.      Why cell division is the only way of organic growth and not many other means?

6.      Why male and female originated for procreation? Why not so many other means of procreation manifested by evolution?

7.      And many such questions we can ask that invalidate the inconsiderate idea of evolution.

With Best Regards

Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

Women Scientist-DST

Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

--
----------------------------

Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017

August 18—19, 2017
Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017
 
Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
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Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
 
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
 
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[David Marjanovic]

Gesendet: Montag, 05. Juni 2017 um 11:30 Uhr
Von: "Dr Shilpi Saxena" <drshilpi...@gmail.com>

> Regarding the origin of Neutron I am not sure whether any such real entity called neutron really exists and even if we assume that it exists, we cannot pick such an entity on the tip of a needle to analyze the same in isolation from all other stuff.

Oh, we can. Not on the tip of a literal needle, but in a magnetic field. It has been done repeatedly. Indeed, an experiment has been done where a single neutron was dropped a few micrometers and its fall was watched (again by magnetic fields, not by light); rather than continuously, it fell stepwise, confirming the hypothesis that gravity is within the purview of quantum physics.

Wikipedia has a whole article just on neutron detection!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_detection

> I have asked in my earlier email that what kind of magic can bring so many protons together in a nucleus of elements with higher atomic number.

It's not magic, it's called the strong interaction:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_interaction

It is one of the four fundamental interactions in nature:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction

and is fully described by the theory of quantum chromodynamics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_chromodynamics

> Perhaps no one knows the clear answer for the same and yet we believe that somehow they came together by evolution and binding energy keeps them intact.

Evolution?

> If evolution is the cause of everything

But of course it isn't, misleading uses of the word for several completely different things aside.

> 1.      Why all the atoms of different elements of periodic table monotonically follow only a single pattern where there is a nucleolus containing protons and neutrons, and electrons move around nucleus?

The strong interaction and electromagnetism together determine this completely and leave no other options.

> Evolution could have produced many types of atoms

Atoms do not reproduce, so they do not inherit with modification; in short, they cannot evolve.

> 2.      Why there are only two charges (positive and negative) and not many more (you can give the names whatever you like to those charges)?

Gravity has only one charge (mass), the strong interaction has three charges (called "red", "green" and "blue" for metaphorical purposes), so perhaps electromagnetism is just what we call the one that has two charges? Admittedly, the weak interaction has two charges as well (sometimes called "orange" and "purple" for metaphorical purposes), but the weak interaction is closely related to electromagnetism – the two become a single interaction at extremely high temperatures.

> 3.      Why a magnet has only two poles and not many?

That is the same question. Electricity and magnetism are the same; magnetic attraction/repulsion is electrostatic attraction/repulsion. This is due to Einstein's relativity – I'll explain it tomorrow after looking some details up.

> 4.      Why there are only five senses (eye for sensing the colour, ear for sound, tongue for taste, skin for touch and nose for smell) and not many more?

There are, of course, many more senses. It is silly to call "touch" a single sense. We have separate types of nerve endings, of sense organs, in the skin to sense damage, acid, pressure, several different ranges of temperature, and so on. They have different shapes and sizes; this has long been known.

Perhaps similarly, taste could be considered eight senses (salty, sweet, acidic, bitter, umami, fat, cilantro, Stevia), all detected by separate kinds of tastebuds. You'll notice that many people lack one or both of the last two. Cats (in the widest sense) also lack the sense for sweetness (sugar tastes nothing but slightly bitter to them), and whales/dolphins as well as seals/sea lions/walruses have additionally lost one of the others, I forgot which one.

Smell is hundreds of separate senses: each smell is detected by a separate type of nerve cell in the nose that expresses a separate receptor encoded by a separate gene. (Hundreds of such genes have, in fact, been found in the human genome.) It is very rare that two different substances bind to the same receptor and thus smell the same; nitrobenzene and benzaldehyde are an example.

Conversely, most vertebrates have a sense vaguely related to hearing that uses a network of slime canals in the skin (the lateral-line organ) to detect low-frequency water vibrations. This only works in water, so we don't have it. Most vertebrates also have a sense that detects electric fields in water or moist soil; again, we lack it.

> 5.      Why cell division is the only way of organic growth and not many other means?

Cells can and often do grow without dividing – but there are practical limits to how large a cell can grow.

> 6.      Why male and female originated for procreation? Why not so many other means of procreation manifested by evolution?

Many other means have, in fact, evolved. The basic method is to have no sexes at all and reproduce by cell division alone. At the other extreme, many slime molds have more than two sexes, up to twenty-three if I remember correctly; each sex can make offspring with each other sex, which has certain advantages over the two-sex system where half of the population is excluded as potential partners in reproduction. Hermaphroditism (two sexes, but each found in the same individual, as in snails/slugs) is another solution to the same problem. – Many species use different modes of procreation under different conditions, because they have different advantages and disadvantages.

As so often, I recommend starting on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction

> 7.      And many such questions we can ask that invalidate the inconsiderate idea of evolution.

Please keep asking – so far your idea of what the theory of evolution is seems very strange to me.

[David Marjanovic]

> Gesendet: Montag, 05. Juni 2017 um 09:14 Uhr
> Von: "'Serge Patlavskiy' [...]

>
> -
> David Marjanovic <david.ma...@gmx.at> on June 5, 2017 wrote:
> > Yes, that's the energy carried away by the antineutrino.
>
> [S.P.] There was a need to save the laws of energy conservation and angular momentum during beta-decay and, therefore, the idea of neutrino was issued by Wolfgang Pauli. However, if to suggest a model in which energy does not transmit from one body to another body, the idea of neutrino/antineutrino will become redundant.

It cannot become redundant, because neutrinos have been detected. Neutrinos are countable objects.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Direct_detection

> [David Marjanovic] wrote:
> > In beta-minus decay, a neutron decays into ...
> > In beta-plus decay, a proton ... decays into ...
>
> [S.P.] The problem here is with the word "decay".

I agree. "Decay" is the established, traditional term, but it has misleading connotations here.

> [S.P.] "Transmutation", or "trans"+"mutation" -- is it another technical term of biology?

It was in Darwin's time, and Darwin used it himself, but it hasn't been used since; it was replaced by the equally misleading term "evolution", which literally means "unwrapping" and was first applied to embryonic development, a process very different from evolution in the modern sense (it doesn't involve descent with heritable modification)...

To avoid confusion, I wouldn't use "transmutation" at all. Probably the first thing people think of when they hear it is the magical "transmutation of elements" in alchemy.

> the word "mutation" pertains to evolutionary matters in Biology.

There, however, it has a much more specialized meaning that doesn't translate to nuclear physics.

[Oliver Manuel]

I look forward to meeting all of you at the conference.  Will we share common housing accommodations?

The neutron seems to be an electron, proton pair (e-,p+) in close combination or a compacted H atom, as Rutherford suggested in 1920 to preserve Prout's hypothesis in 1815 and the whole number rule of atomic weights :  heavier elements are made of H-atoms and their atomic weights are integer multiples of the atomic weight of hydrogen.

 Neutrons and H-atoms are reversibly transformable to minimize total energy via beta decay, as when tritium decays to He-3 because the repulsive force between two neutrons is greater than the repulsive force between two protons in A= 3.

The neutrino remains an enigma for me.  Is the gravitational collapse of H-atoms into neutron stars, supposedly a three body process involving the neutrino?

Oscillating solar neutrinos seems to have been invented out of nothing in a last ditch effort to "save the standard solar model"  in 2001.  

 

--
----------------------------

Fifth International Conference
Science and Scientist - 2017

August 18—19, 2017
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[Vasavada, Kashyap V]

Dear Shilpi,

Please call me kashyap. I have been reading your e-mails which raised lot of purely physics questions. All scientists will admit that ,since science deals purely with sensory data, it has some limitations. However as a person who spent more than 60 years in learning and teaching physics, I have to say that as far as sensory world is concerned, science dominates the scene. Cell phone in your pocket is a clear indication of that. Science has not made any progress about consciousness. So as I mentioned in my article, I am closely interested in debate about what Vedas say about all this. About pure physics questions, I wanted to reply earlier, but I was waiting for Dr. Oliver’s answer. In the meantime, David Marjanovic answered many of these questions. I agree with most of the answers. But I will add some general remarks. I hope, you will not be offended. I understand you are a philosopher. As you know, scientific process  is like this. Experimentalists collect data. Theorists make models (in physics these models are mostly mathematical). These are hotly debated in papers and scientific society meetings. If the models explain large number of data, it becomes a theory and  a consensus about the correctness of the theory develops. This does not mean some doubters do not remain. In fact science thrives on controversies and these are healthy for science. I have not read Dr. Oliver’s papers. But many of these questions (about neutrons and  protons) have been settled for decades and decades. Although  protons repel each other by electromagnetic (coulomb) force) once they are closer than some short distance (roughly 10^(-13) cm), there is a an attractive force, called strong interaction. This keeps the nucleus bound. In fact this is the central problem when physicists try to get controlled thermonuclear fusion. , i.e.  keep protons and neutrons close enough for substantial time to cause fusion reaction and get more energy out of that process than what you put in!  Anyway, protons are always fighting to get out. When there are many protons, the nucleus starts becoming unstable resulting in radioactivity. The phenomena of radioactivity, beta decay etc. are well understood ( the so called weak force) In fact Nobel prize was given for a theory of unification of weak and electromagnetic forces. Dr. Oliver is welcome to his alternative model. There should not be any censorship in science. But he will have to convince lot of nuclear physicists. This is called peer review process. Convincing philosophers or Vedantins in this forum will not be sufficient. After you have discussion with Dr. Oliver, we can perhaps return to these issues in September or so.

As for Sun emitting sound of AUM he has to quote experimental data. Sun does emit lot of waves in addition to our usual light and they can be measured.

Best Regards,

kashyap

 

From: online_sa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:online_sa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr Shilpi Saxena
Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 5:31 AM
To: online_sa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Fifth International Conference "SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017"

 

Dear Dr Oliver,

 

Thanking you.

 

Sincerely,

+91-(9748906907)

Donate  www.scsiscs.org

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[Dr Shilpi Saxena]

Dear Professor David,

Thank you for your clarification and I honestly confess that most of your answers are rather ambiguous.

> > Regarding the origin of Neutron I am not sure whether any such real entity called neutron really exists and even if we assume that it exists, we cannot pick such an entity on the tip of a needle to analyze the same in isolation from all other stuff.

Your response: Oh, we can. Not on the tip of a literal needle, but in a magnetic field. It has been done repeatedly. Indeed, an experiment has been done where a single neutron was dropped a few micrometers and its fall was watched (again by magnetic fields, not by light); rather than continuously, it fell stepwise, confirming the hypothesis that gravity is within the purview of quantum physics.

Wikipedia has a whole article just on neutron detection!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_detection

My reply: What we can watch in magnetic field is whether a particle’s spin is affected by the magnetic field or not. But that does not give any information about the real ontology of that particle. How do we know that a neutron is indeed a separate ontological entity than that of proton and electron, or it is simply a capsule containing proton and electron tightly? Based on the observations about the effect of magnetic field on neutron, it seems rather inane to conclude that gravity can be reduced to quantum physics. What is the basis to think that gravity is indeed discrete rather than continuous? It is like claiming that when you jump from a height, you are sometime freely falling down and sometime you are hanging in the air (or even going up?).
When I have told that a magical thing can only bring so many protons together in a nucleus, you tried to deny that magic by a few new names “strong interaction”, “four fundamental interaction” and “quantum chromodynamics”. But I do not see how those names you cite can unravel the magic that I have pointed out. Can someone use the laws of “strong interaction”/“four fundamental interaction”/“quantum chromodynamics” and show a case where we can precisely pick isolated neutrons, protons and electrons and from a gold atom and from many such gold atoms a gold biscuit? Again the same question: if there is an evolution that is causing everything then why there are four fundamental forces and not many more fundamental forces. Also you seem to be unaware of cases where the word evolution is used for non-biological entities and I therefore want to bring your attention to the such literature which consistently uses the word evolution for everything including our universe http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v435/n7042/edsumm/e050602-01.html .

If you think that it is misleading to use evolution for everything then please publish a rebuttal in high standard journal to stop such publications in future scientific literature. 

     
>> 1.      Why all the atoms of different elements of periodic table monotonically follow only a single pattern where there is a nucleolus containing protons and neutrons, and electrons move around nucleus?

Your response: The strong interaction and electromagnetism together determine this completely and leave no other options.

My reply: Why evolution is restricted by strong interaction and electromagnetism? Evolution can find forever new ways to eliminate constraints. 

>> Evolution could have produced many types of atoms

Your response: Atoms do not reproduce, so they do not inherit with modification; in short, they cannot evolve.

My reply: That is rather vague and partial vision of evolution that you carry in your mind. Evolution is not a copyright of biologists alone and in fact scientists in almost all fields of science use the word “evolution” as a magic wand to explain their own ideas about different origins. What you have to say about “chemical evolution” concept that is often used in origin of life studies and for example this claim in the paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4810237/
“Molecular evolution from simple inorganic compounds would occur in order of physical evolution, chemical evolution, and biochemical evolution to produce biologically important organic compounds, such as amino acids and peptides.” 

>> 2.      Why there are only two charges (positive and negative) and not many more (you can give the names whatever you like to those charges)?

Your response: Gravity has only one charge (mass), the strong interaction has three charges (called "red", "green" and "blue" for metaphorical purposes), so perhaps electromagnetism is just what we call the one that has two charges? Admittedly, the weak interaction has two charges as well (sometimes called "orange" and "purple" for metaphorical purposes), but the weak interaction is closely related to electromagnetism – the two become a single interaction at extremely high temperatures.

My reply: This explanation of your is rather ridiculous and I am not sure what type of definition of charge you have in your mind but I have written my point on the basis of standard definition of charge. The Wikipedia definition of charge is as follow
“Electric charge is the physical property of matter that causes it to experience a force when placed in an electromagnetic field. There are two types of electric charges: positive and negative (commonly carried by protons and electrons respectively). Like charges repel and unlike attract. An absence of net charge is referred to as neutral. An object is negatively charged if it has an excess of electrons, and is otherwise positively charged or uncharged.” 

>> 3.      Why a magnet has only two poles and not many?

Your response: That is the same question. Electricity and magnetism are the same; magnetic attraction/repulsion is electrostatic attraction/repulsion. This is due to Einstein's relativity – I'll explain it tomorrow after looking some details up.
My reply: That is rather simple presumption. I will wait for your explanation but mean while you can read: https://thenextgalaxy.com/difference-between-electricity-and-magnetism/
“magnetism is a phenomenon that is produced as a byproduct of electricity. When electric charges begin to move, this is when magnetism takes place. But what many do not know about magnetism is that it also possesses a duality. Magnetic poles are created when electrical charges move in one direction or the other.”

>> 4.      Why there are only five senses (eye for sensing the colour, ear for sound, tongue for taste, skin for touch and nose for smell) and not many more?

Your response: There are, of course, many more senses. It is silly to call "touch" a single sense. We have separate types of nerve endings, of sense organs, in the skin to sense damage, acid, pressure, several different ranges of temperature, and so on. They have different shapes and sizes; this has long been known.

Perhaps similarly, taste could be considered eight senses (salty, sweet, acidic, bitter, umami, fat, cilantro, Stevia), all detected by separate kinds of tastebuds. You'll notice that many people lack one or both of the last two. Cats (in the widest sense) also lack the sense for sweetness (sugar tastes nothing but slightly bitter to them), and whales/dolphins as well as seals/sea lions/walruses have additionally lost one of the others, I forgot which one.

Smell is hundreds of separate senses: each smell is detected by a separate type of nerve cell in the nose that expresses a separate receptor encoded by a separate gene. (Hundreds of such genes have, in fact, been found in the human genome.) It is very rare that two different substances bind to the same receptor and thus smell the same; nitrobenzene and benzaldehyde are an example.

Conversely, most vertebrates have a sense vaguely related to hearing that uses a network of slime canals in the skin (the lateral-line organ) to detect low-frequency water vibrations. This only works in water, so we don't have it. Most vertebrates also have a sense that detects electric fields in water or moist soil; again, we lack it.

My reply: You may be sometime angry and sometime peaceful. That does not mean that you become two different individuals due to an exhibition of those two different subjective natures. Similarly we can see many colours using our eyes but that does not lead us to conclude that we have many eyes (senses). It seems you do not make any distinction between senses and sense objects (what senses sense), but such a stand is rather absurd.   

>> 5.      Why cell division is the only way of organic growth and not many other means?

Your response: Cells can and often do grow without dividing – but there are practical limits to how large a cell can grow.

My reply: My point is very simple: Why all life is dependent on cell and not beyond cell? Why evolution could not find means beyond the cellular principles?

>> 6.      Why male and female originated for procreation? Why not so many other means of procreation manifested by evolution?

Your response: Many other means have, in fact, evolved. The basic method is to have no sexes at all and reproduce by cell division alone. At the other extreme, many slime molds have more than two sexes, up to twenty-three if I remember correctly; each sex can make offspring with each other sex, which has certain advantages over the two-sex system where half of the population is excluded as potential partners in reproduction. Hermaphroditism (two sexes, but each found in the same individual, as in snails/slugs) is another solution to the same problem. – Many species use different modes of procreation under different conditions, because they have different advantages and disadvantages.

As so often, I recommend starting on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction

My reply: There is a whole lot of confusion that exists when we use the same term for unicellular and multicellular entities. Biologists use the definition of species differently for unicellular and multicellular entities, and it must be same for indentifying the sexes. The literature is highly confusing. Biologists claim that higher species like animals and human beings evolved from unicellular organisms and if that is the case then your view “The basic method is to have no sexes at all and reproduce by cell division alone.” is reverse evolution. Against the chronology of evolution that is portrayed in biology, to have the kind of advantage that you propose the unicellular beings must originate from multicellular organisms.

>> 7.      And many such questions we can ask that invalidate the inconsiderate idea of evolution.

Your response: Please keep asking – so far your idea of what the theory of evolution is seems very strange to me.

My reply: Your idea of evolution also seems quite strange and you may revise the same by doing a good literature survey. And there is always an option open where you can write a good rebuttal to change the view of evolution that is commonly used in scientific literature. 

 

With Best Regards

        Dr Shilpi Saxena, MRSC, Ph.D, FICCE

        Women Scientist-DST

        Ex-Executive Member of Board of INC-IAH (United Kingdom)

        University of Delhi, Delhi-110007

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 5:20 PM, David Marjanovic <david.ma...@gmx.at> wrote:

Gesendet: Montag, 05. Juni 2017 um 11:30 Uhr
Von: "Dr Shilpi Saxena" <drshilpi...@gmail.com>

> Regarding the origin of Neutron I am not sure whether any such real entity called neutron really exists and even if we assume that it exists, we cannot pick such an entity on the tip of a needle to analyze the same in isolation from all other stuff.

Oh, we can. Not on the tip of a literal needle, but in a magnetic field. It has been done repeatedly. Indeed, an experiment has been done where a single neutron was dropped a few micrometers and its fall was watched (again by magnetic fields, not by light); rather than continuously, it fell stepwise, confirming the hypothesis that gravity is within the purview of quantum physics.

Wikipedia has a whole article just on neutron detection!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_detection

> I have asked in my earlier email that what kind of magic can bring so many protons together in a nucleus of elements with higher atomic number.

It's not magic, it's called the strong interaction:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_interaction

It is one of the four fundamental interactions in nature:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction

and is fully described by the theory of quantum chromodynamics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_chromodynamics

> Perhaps no one knows the clear answer for the same and yet we believe that somehow they came together by evolution and binding energy keeps them intact.

Evolution?

> If evolution is the cause of everything

But of course it isn't, misleading uses of the word for several completely different things aside.

> 1.      Why all the atoms of different elements of periodic table monotonically follow only a single pattern where there is a nucleolus containing protons and neutrons, and electrons move around nucleus?

The strong interaction and electromagnetism together determine this completely and leave no other options.

> Evolution could have produced many types of atoms

Atoms do not reproduce, so they do not inherit with modification; in short, they cannot evolve.

> 2.      Why there are only two charges (positive and negative) and not many more (you can give the names whatever you like to those charges)?

Gravity has only one charge (mass), the strong interaction has three charges (called "red", "green" and "blue" for metaphorical purposes), so perhaps electromagnetism is just what we call the one that has two charges? Admittedly, the weak interaction has two charges as well (sometimes called "orange" and "purple" for metaphorical purposes), but the weak interaction is closely related to electromagnetism – the two become a single interaction at extremely high temperatures.

> 3.      Why a magnet has only two poles and not many?

That is the same question. Electricity and magnetism are the same; magnetic attraction/repulsion is electrostatic attraction/repulsion. This is due to Einstein's relativity – I'll explain it tomorrow after looking some details up.

> 4.      Why there are only five senses (eye for sensing the colour, ear for sound, tongue for taste, skin for touch and nose for smell) and not many more?

There are, of course, many more senses. It is silly to call "touch" a single sense. We have separate types of nerve endings, of sense organs, in the skin to sense damage, acid, pressure, several different ranges of temperature, and so on. They have different shapes and sizes; this has long been known.

Perhaps similarly, taste could be considered eight senses (salty, sweet, acidic, bitter, umami, fat, cilantro, Stevia), all detected by separate kinds of tastebuds. You'll notice that many people lack one or both of the last two. Cats (in the widest sense) also lack the sense for sweetness (sugar tastes nothing but slightly bitter to them), and whales/dolphins as well as seals/sea lions/walruses have additionally lost one of the others, I forgot which one.

Smell is hundreds of separate senses: each smell is detected by a separate type of nerve cell in the nose that expresses a separate receptor encoded by a separate gene. (Hundreds of such genes have, in fact, been found in the human genome.) It is very rare that two different substances bind to the same receptor and thus smell the same; nitrobenzene and benzaldehyde are an example.

Conversely, most vertebrates have a sense vaguely related to hearing that uses a network of slime canals in the skin (the lateral-line organ) to detect low-frequency water vibrations. This only works in water, so we don't have it. Most vertebrates also have a sense that detects electric fields in water or moist soil; again, we lack it.

> 5.      Why cell division is the only way of organic growth and not many other means?

Cells can and often do grow without dividing – but there are practical limits to how large a cell can grow.

> 6.      Why male and female originated for procreation? Why not so many other means of procreation manifested by evolution?

Many other means have, in fact, evolved. The basic method is to have no sexes at all and reproduce by cell division alone. At the other extreme, many slime molds have more than two sexes, up to twenty-three if I remember correctly; each sex can make offspring with each other sex, which has certain advantages over the two-sex system where half of the population is excluded as potential partners in reproduction. Hermaphroditism (two sexes, but each found in the same individual, as in snails/slugs) is another solution to the same problem. – Many species use different modes of procreation under different conditions, because they have different advantages and disadvantages.

As so often, I recommend starting on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction

> 7.      And many such questions we can ask that invalidate the inconsiderate idea of evolution.

Please keep asking – so far your idea of what the theory of evolution is seems very strange to me.

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[Oliver Manuel]

The continuous harmonic vibration of the solar system with the Sun's pulsar core was, as I recall measured and reported by Thompson et al in IEEE in 2007.

The paper is cited in the paper planned for presentation at the conference in Nepal. 

Oliver K. Manuel

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:58 AM Oliver Manuel <omat...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Oliver Manuel]

The correct reference is Thomson et al (2007) in IEEE;  Reference #59 in 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Hidden_Higher_Power.pdf

[Diego Lucio Rapoport]

Dear Oliver,

could you please precise the reference to Thompson et al?

thanks

best regards

Diego

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Fifth International Conference
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[Oliver Manuel]

The correct reference #59 is to Thomson et al. in IEEE (2007) concerning the response of engineering systems to this worldwide harmonic vibration in underwater ocean cables, atmospheric pressures, etc. 

 I already knew the second author as an interesting physicist in the US NAS. THE ESA News article says the vibration originates in the Sun but does not mention the Sun's pulsar core which seems to be "verboten" in the US NAS.

Anyway, the US NAS does not own or control reality. 

[Oliver Manuel]

Reference #59 includes this News report from the European Space Agency:  

https://www.google.com/search?q=ttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.esa.int%2FesaSC%2FSEMJJYUL05F_index_0.html&oq=ttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.esa.int%2FesaSC%2FSEMJJYUL05F_index_0.html&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.1863j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Serge Patlavskiy]

-

David Marjanovic <david.ma...@gmx.at> on June 5, 2017 wrote:

>> [S.P.] There was a need to save the laws of energy conservation and 

>>angular momentum during beta-decay and, therefore, the idea of 

>>neutrino was issued by Wolfgang Pauli. However, if to suggest a 

>>model in which energy does not transmit from one body to another 

>>body, the idea of neutrino/antineutrino will become redundant.

>

>It cannot become redundant, because neutrinos have been detected. 

[S.P.] The irony is that the experiments on "detecting" neutrino are extremely expensive, and those who funded these experiments expected EXCLUSIVELY positive results. This is the same as in case with experiments on "proving" Einstein's theory of general relativity in 1919, and these days with experiments on "detecting" Higgs boson. If you spend astronomical sum of money on performing an experiment, you allow only positive outcomes. There is a big portion of politics in such a kind of science, don't you think so?

[David Marjanovic] wrote:

>>> In beta-minus decay, a neutron decays into ...

>>> In beta-plus decay, a proton ... decays into ...

>>

>> [S.P.] The problem here is with the word "decay".

>

>I agree. "Decay" is the established, traditional term, but it has 

>misleading connotations here.

[S.P.] So, you agree that decompositional model is not good when describing what is going on during beta-transmutations. The decompositional model (or DEC-model for short) presumes that when we consider a piano as the initial Whole and throw it off the roof of the skyscraper we will receive a heap of debris (parts, or constituent elements).

But, in case of beta-transmutations we have a cardinally different situation. Namely, when throwing a piano off the roof of the skyscraper we receive NOT a heap of debris, but a set of different and fully functional new musical instruments like a violin, a harp, a trumpet, a saxophone, and so on.

Question: does Physics have a model able to describe/formalize this situation? As a physicist myself, I know for sure that Physics DOES NOT have the required model. Modern Physics continues to use the traditional decompositional approach: to study the object, it has to be decomposed (divided, cut down, decayed, etc.) into constituent parts, and the task is only in how to increase the energy of influence/impact upon the object of study. 

Now, let me refer to my recent post on June 3 in reply to John Jay Kineman. In that post I say that I have elaborated a special kind of model which presumes that the initial Whole dissociates with formation of the chain of (fully functional) wholes. And I indicate that instead of the DEC-model alone I suggest using the system of AS-DIS-DEC models in trying to formalize such events as beta-transmutations and nonlocal entanglement. This same system of models I use when formalizing such effects as a torrent of thoughts and other consciousness-related events.

So, I would much like to know your opinion concerning my idea. Hope, John Jay Kineman will find time to reply as well.

With respect, 

Serge Patlavskiy

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From: David Marjanovic <david.ma...@gmx.at>
To: Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 3:05 PM

Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Fifth International Conference "SCIENCE AND SCIENTIST — 2017"

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