Free Money (For the Makery)

[Omaha Maker Group]

After seeing the fantastic job everyone did last year of stepping up and growing our monthly membership base, one of our supporters (who has asked to remain anonymous) has put out a BIG challenge to us: this individual will make a dollar-for-dollar matching donation for all donations made to OMG for the rest of January, up to $1,000! The matching money, which will be set aside for future capital improvements, will cover all cash donations, as well as the equivalent dollar value for all new merchandise donated, too.  So if someone got an extra socket set for Christmas that is worth $40, donating that to OMG will net us $40 in a cash match.  Or if someone buys some new parts for the 3D printer, the money spent will be matched, too. It's a win-win for OMG!

Cash donations can be given to James or Kevin directly, or can be made using the PayPal link on the OMG website (simply note in the donation that this is for "January Fundrasing"). Merchandise donations can be given to James, Kevin, or Eric.

This is a great opportunity to build up our cash on-hand, which will be useful for upcoming capital-improvement projects this year. Please consider the value that OMG brings to you, and help us reach this goal.

Thanks!

[David Knaack]

Anyone have suggestions for tools?

Lately I'm finding that we're quite well set up for smaller tools (though the organization is a bit lacking in some places).

I would like to see a bigger vacuum former, and maybe some on-hand stock for it.

The thing that stands out most to me, from viewpoints of both utility and membership generation, is a laser cutter. We've discussed it a number of times, but getting donations up into the range where we can get a really solid tool has been a challenge. What do we think of aiming for such an acquisition? Too big? Not enough users? Other priorities?

[Kevin Fusselman]

I don't think that space is an issue, for a laser cutter... The main problem we'd had in the past is a proper balance of cost and capabilities...

Small, low power cutters are cheap. Big, capable cutters get expensive fast.

Thoughts?

[David Knaack]

I think the minimum capacity would need to be 3/16" acrylic with a 2'x2' working area.

Is there a large variety of these things available, or are we realistically looking at just a few options that are known to be reliable for this sort of shop application?

[Marc M]

if we had a laser cutter i would be the first one to try this out!!

http://blip.tv/tetranitrate/laser-tattoos-1046990

[Travis Smith]

Of course you know my vote: telepresence. I get so much out of the group, but past forum interaction, ill pretty much be out of the picture soon unless we get a solution along these lines.

-Travis

[Ryan Stille]

Would that allow you to make stuff like this? 

http://www.etsy.com/listing/106519439/raspberry-pi-box-rev-b

[David Knaack]

Yep.

Here are some ideas for other kinds of laser-cut joints:

http://blog.makezine.com/2012/04/13/cnc-panel-joinery-notebook

[patrick]

http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/ augment a smaller version?

[David Knaack]

I think we at one point considered getting a cheap Chinese cutter (anyone have pricing options for one of those?) and moving it's parts to a larger platform.

I don't know how much need we have for a huge motion platform though. I suppose that most of what we'd do would fit in the smallest machines.

[Brandon Norris]

I believe the "cheap" 40W small ones are around the $1600 mark after shipping.

For that much we could probably build the 2x4' lasersaur.

[Eric J. Kaplan]

According to their BOM, the total cost for their model is $7600. Even if we scavenged everything but the laser, their specified laser is still around $2300.

Sent from my iPad

[David Knaack]

$1600 range for a 40W machine that doesn't have to be built sounds pretty good to me, even if it required a little hacking to get the most out of it.

[Travis Smith]

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/12/revolve-robotics-kubi/

 

Travis

[David Knaack]

$250 for a servo on a stick?

[Travis Smith]

Kev, Eric,

 

Can you ask our benevolent benefactor if he/she will match funds if I get one of these things?  I'd still need a tablet of some sort to make it work, but I think there's greater interest in this sort of thing than just me (so we could buy 2, or use the matched funding to get a tablet for it).  Small price to pay for continued use of the club for all us pilgrims out there...

 

Thoughts?

 

http://www.indiegogo.com/kubi

 

Travis

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Travis Smith <trav...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Travis Smith]

Its a lot like the MMM, no?  Dave, if the group wants to make its own version, I'll buy parts and help as much as I can.  I'm thinking of the Kubi only because I can have the peace of mind that I know it will be functional (not that I don't think we're capable, I just don't want to have to be cut off from the group if it breaks and people don't think it important enough to fix).

 

Travis

[Travis Smith]

Maybe not MMM...what did you call the mounted webcam design you made, Dave?

 

Travis

[David Knaack]

If I were building such a thing, I'd use a laptop rather than a tablet. Laptop sits on top of a motor-driven turntable, motor is controlled by an arduino. Arduino is commanded by software running in a webserver on the laptop. Load Skype or whatever, and the user opens a web page to the laptop to send turn commands.

if you wanted to get fancy with it you would get the software on the laptop to watch the skype video window and the user would hold up a colored card to turn left or right. That would eliminate the webserver part (which requires support from the firewall).

[Travis Smith]

That sounds pretty good, actually.

 

Travis

[Eric Kaplan]

The matching funds will be based on all donations - cash, equipment, and tools - that are received this month.  So, yes, if you bought one of these or the equivalent equipment, and we can document the donation to the space, that can count towards the total that we raise (which will then be matched by our donor).

--

Eric J. Kaplan                                       

• ekap...@gmail.com
• www.ejk00.smugmug.com

[Ben Hutcheson]

I'm inclined to agree with Dave on the laser cutter.  I know it goes against the Maker spirit to buy a machine we can build, but I think the reliability and refinement of a commercial device is the way to go for a laser cutter.  This is something we would get a huge amount of use from, and I would like to see it approach the accessibility of the Cricut.

Yes, "we" (Brandon) built a very solid and useful 3D printer.  But how long did it take us to start producing useful prints with it?  And I feel like that was more "because we can" than "because we want to make <item>."  It was in service for a year before we really printed anything other than trinkets and more 3D printers.  Now it's gotten to a point where it's pretty robust; most of the issues we have with it are specific to filament deposition and wouldn't apply with a laser cutter.  But even so, I'm not sure how long we want to wait between collecting several thousand dollars and having a usable cutter.  I can think of two or three projects I'd like to start almost immediately if I had access to a one.

That's not to say we would be stuck with a commercial machine, of course.  Having access to a laser cutter greatly simplifies the process of building large, precise assemblies.  You can build a lot out of interlocking 1/4" plywood and acyrlic, including very accurate 3D printers and, quite possibly, a bigger laser cutter.

I'm also slightly concerned about the safety aspect.  A 40 watt laser tube could very easily be the single most dangerous item to ever visit the Makery, even compared to our old dull table saw, pinch-happy robot arms, various Jacob's Ladders, and this week's capacitor bank.  If the tube is powered up with anything less than total safety and confinement, it could cause serious eye damage to anyone unlucky enough to catch a reflection.  Having enclosures and interlocks designed by engineers with corporate liability in mind would be a good place to start, and would give us a firsthand reference point if we later decide to build our own larger version.

[Eric J. Kaplan]

Agreed!

Sent from my iPad

[tavshed]

Does the Makery have a laptop available? 

Do you think a Raspberry Pi could handle the job?

- Mike

[Kevin Fusselman]

We've got a few working laptops around.

As for the laser cutter, below the $1600 price point are some even less expensive (and less big/powerful ones), but I don't know that we'd want to go that route...

That said, I'm in for $100 for any laser cutter we pick. Anyone else care to pledge?

[Ryan Stille]

I would pledge $50.

[Eric Kaplan]

I bet this could be modified to use include audio

http://blog.makezine.com/2013/01/10/raspberry-pi-security-cam-with-pan-and-tilt/

[Ben Hutcheson]

I'd be in for $100 towards a laser cutter capable of working with 1/8" plywood and acrylic at the minimum.  Anything less powerful would not be a compelling option to me.

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Kevin Fusselman <ke...@fusselman.org> wrote:

[Brandon Norris]

So, looking around, I found this little guy

http://goo.gl/FUC7i

8" x 12" cutting size, 40w

Not sure on the cut depth, but you should be able to run it slower or something to cut deeper.

$800 shipped.

Probably the low end of the spectrum, but I thought I would put it out there.

Also I would be in for $100 towards one.

[Rick Rubio]

I put in $100.

Sent from my iPhone

[Eric Kaplan]

I can contribute some, just not sure how much yet.  But count me in as a contributor and I can work out the details with whomever is making the purchase.

Sorry to be vague, but my budget is back to being pinched again....

[David Knaack]

From what I'm seeing on line a 40W laser is plenty for cutting acrylic, even thick sheets, and it will do 1/4 plywood too (or thicker if you aren't too picky about getting it done fast or having it look perfect).

That looks like a pretty good starter machine.

[Kevin Fusselman]

So that's $450 pledged, plus Eric.

If we can raise the remaining balance in pledges, I'll handle the actual ordering, of that model Dave found.

[David Knaack]

I can do $50 for sure.

Which machine are we talking about?

[Kevin Fusselman]

I was mistaken, it was Brandon who linked it... Its a pretty common model.... 12" square and 40w, if I recall.

We'd researched a very similar model a while back. They seem pretty decent, and there are plenty of sellers. Also, when we looked, they had good resale potential, in case we'd like to upgrade at some point...

[Chamelaeon Wombatowski]

I can chip in with $50.

[Eric Kaplan]

Obviously a definitive answer would require looking at the actual machine, but is there likelihood that the 12"x12" model could be rebuilt into a larger machine just by building a new frame and migrating the components from the old to the new?

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Kevin Fusselman <dafo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kevin Fusselman]

Possibly, yea... Like you said, "it depends"

[patrick]

It is my opinion that corporate entities from ebay don't give a dang. I did all the research 6-12 months ago when I first saw the lasersaur i put together a BOM its way out of date based on what they have now that put cost at $5300. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMu1F4wKNXYdGRkTlhTOGU4c0xtVUxmdGZxMl9wbHc Also remember that lasers don't last for ever the cheap ones will burn out after 1k-10k hours of use. Which is why most spaces even after buying the machine still charge member to use it so they can replace the actual laser down the road when it burns out. You can buy just the Laser tube it self on ebay prices vary based on power and longevity.

[Kevin Fusselman]

He's right about tube life.  

The tubes in most inexpensive cutters (and some not so inexpensive ones) have a "1000 to 1300 hr life", and cost around $150 to replace (at the 40-watt power level).  We'll need to come up with some mechanism to manage that, much like we do materials for the 3D printer. $0.15/HOUR in consumable cost doesn't seem too terrible, if you ask me.

[Eric Kaplan]

I like the idea of a basic charge per project.  I know when I print something on the 3D printer, I always kick in a couple of bucks into the coffee can.  Maybe the laser could have a "$1/project" fee?

[patrick]

It should be a charge per time used I think most places charge by the minute.

[patrick]

Don't for get to factor int he shipping for the $150 tube is usually a few inches in diameter but the more powerful it is the longer it is shipping a 4 foot long 5" glass tube from china can't be cheap.

[David Knaack]

Does the machine have a clock for tracking usage hours?

[Kevin Fusselman]

Unlikely, that'd have cost extra... Not that we couldn't fix that, though... I'm thinking a hacked kill-a-watt that only counts when the draw exceeds 50w (ie tube is firing)

[Eric Kaplan]

There are also some software-based productivity trackers that log how much time is used by each application, and often by each file within that application.  I don't know of "modern" versions, but back in the day I used one called Who?What?Where? that I used to keep track of billable hours when I was doing freelance graphic arts design.

[Ryan Stille]

Could probably hook one of these (or similar) up to it pretty easily?

Hour counter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/280707145358

-Ryan

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Kevin Fusselman <ke...@fusselman.org> wrote: