Fwd: [Cincinnati-Web-Tech-Drinkup] Cincinnati Web/Tech Study Group

[Karl Wilbur]

Forwarding this on for those interested:

We're getting a study group together to go thru the Stanford CS142 course in web development using ruby an rails. The course assumes no prior programming experience and we'd really like to open this class to folks interested in breaking into web development. Our plan is for students to watch the videos on their own and meet once a week in person to answer questions and help people work on the projects. I'm planning on pestering Nitrous.IO for enough invites that all the students that want to use it to do the projects and not have to mess with installing ruby and rails can do so.

We've setup a community here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/101954958111273359715
We'd love to have people join us as TAs. Please send this to those you feel like would be interested. We'll probably have to cap this at some reasonable number, about 25 or so and expect those signing up to commit to attending for 10 weeks.

Sign up at: http://cwtstudygroup.eventbrite.com/

--
Karl Wilbur
513-322-2481
ka...@karlwilbur.net

[Michael Beck]

Karl,

 

this is a PHP mailing list! :)

 

Michael

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From: oin...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oin...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karl Wilbur
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 13:19
To: OINK-PUG Members
Subject: [OINKPUG] Fwd: [Cincinnati-Web-Tech-Drinkup] Cincinnati Web/Tech Study Group

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[Karl Wilbur]

Stanford CS142 is Web Applications.

"Concepts and techniques used in constructing interactive web applications. Browser-side web facilities such as HTML, cascading stylesheets, javascript, and the document object model. Server-side technologies such as sessions, templates, relational databases, and object-relational mapping. Issues in web security and application scalability. New models of web application deployment. "

--
Karl Wilbur
513-322-2481
ka...@karlwilbur.net

[Michael Beck]

Yeah, but it's all based on Ruby!!!! :)

 

http://www.stanford.edu/~ouster/cgi-bin/cs142-spring13/index.php

 

Are there no Web development courses based on PHP?

 

I never thought that I'll see a day you would be advertising for Ruby courses! :) LOL

 

Michael

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From: oin...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oin...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karl Wilbur

Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 14:04
To: oin...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [OINKPUG] Fwd: [Cincinnati-Web-Tech-Drinkup] Cincinnati Web/Tech Study Group

[Shannon Mahoney]

I am loving this discussion.  I love developers J

 

___________________________________

Shannon Mahoney
Recruiter

Mobile: 513-504-6383
Email: smah...@resolvit.com

895 Central Ave

Suite 350
Cincinnati, OH 45202
513-619-5900 ext 24
___________________________________

 

Resolvit, LLC is an information technology and management consulting firm providing business solutions and strategic resources to industry and government clients in Washington, DC, Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky, New York City, Silicon Valley, Raleigh-Durham, NC, and Buenos Aires, Argentina. For additional information regarding our company and employment opportunities, please visit our website: www.resolvit.com. Resolvit, LLC is an Equal Opportunity Employer.

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[Karl Wilbur]

It is a course in web applications development. The concepts learned are what's important, not the language. They teach web application development in Spanish too.

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Karl Wilbur
513-322-2481
ka...@karlwilbur.net

[Michael Beck]

This is like going to Apple developers to tell them:

 

"we'll teach you mobile application development using Windows 8"

 

OUCH! :)

 

Since this is a PHP mailing list, how about course that use PHP as basis? For example this one from Purdue:

 

Web Programming, Development, & Data Integration

http://cgtweb1.tech.purdue.edu/courses/cgt356/WeeklySchedule.asp

 

Michael

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From: oin...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oin...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karl Wilbur

Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 14:23

[Karl Wilbur]

Because that's not the course that the Cincinnati Web Tech Study Group chose. Also, the Purdue course is .Net-centric and expects students to be using Visual Studio which is quite prohibitive to many students.

The Stanford course has simple-to-follow instructions for Windows, Mac OS, and Linux.

--
Karl Wilbur
513-322-2481
ka...@karlwilbur.net

[Michael Beck]

And you were not able to convince them to use PHP for the Tech Study Group?  That hurts! :)

 

Purdue course was just an example.

 

I would assume that in the whole wide world there are couple more Web development courses that use PHP :)

 

Michael

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From: oin...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oin...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karl Wilbur

Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 15:35

[Karl Wilbur]

My motivation is to make better *developers*. Is it far/right to recommend an inferior course simply because it teaches people poorly in PHP.

--
Karl Wilbur
513-322-2481
ka...@karlwilbur.net

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Michael Beck <mam...@gmail.com> wrote:

That was only an example of a course. We could find a better one, or fix this one and make it better. And you would be the best person to make it happen!!!!!

 

Look, the mission of this group is to promote PHP to the community, correct?

 

So what is better way to accomplish this mission:

 

1) recommending good web development course in Ruby

 

or

 

2) find a good course using PHP, or take a bad course, and improve it together as a group, and then promote it within the community?

 

Are we fulfilling the goals and mission of this PHP User Group by promoting Ruby course on this mailing list?

 

If you've decided to switch to Ruby, as Bill did, I totally understand it.

 

But honestly - is it fair/right  as a President of the PHP User Group to promote Ruby courses?

 

Michael

---

From: Karl Wilbur [mailto:ka...@karlwilbur.net]
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 15:41
To: Michael Beck

Subject: Re: [OINKPUG] Fwd: [Cincinnati-Web-Tech-Drinkup] Cincinnati Web/Tech Study Group

Also, reading through the Purdue course, it is teaching bad practice. Poor coding conventions, expecting students to use PHPMyAdmin and Visual Studio for managing a database. They are using MS Word docs for their labs! 

After a short evaluation of the course, I would use it as an indicator of who *not* to hire.

--
Karl Wilbur
513-322-2481
ka...@karlwilbur.net

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Michael Beck <mam...@gmail.com> wrote:

Karl,

 

what's up?

 

Are you now totally in the Ruby camp?

 

That's why you're not coming anymore to PHP User Group meetings?

 

I can't believe that the President of the PHP User Group would promote courses in Ruby!  LOL

 

Are you OK?

 

Michael

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From: oin...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oin...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karl Wilbur

Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 14:23

[Joshua Boyd]

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Karl Wilbur <ka...@karlwilbur.net> wrote:

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Michael Beck <mam...@gmail.com> wrote:

That was only an example of a course. We could find a better one, or fix this one and make it better. And you would be the best person to make it happen!!!!!

 

Look, the mission of this group is to promote PHP to the community, correct?

 

So what is better way to accomplish this mission:

 

1) recommending good web development course in Ruby

 

or

 

2) find a good course using PHP, or take a bad course, and improve it together as a group, and then promote it within the community?

 

Are we fulfilling the goals and mission of this PHP User Group by promoting Ruby course on this mailing list?

 

If you've decided to switch to Ruby, as Bill did, I totally understand it.

 

But honestly - is it fair/right  as a President of the PHP User Group to promote Ruby courses?

You're trolling, right? Because if you're not, you're coming off as an idiot.

Programming is programming. It doesn't matter what language is being taught/learnt, the skills cross apply.

Additionally, it's fairly rude to question the ethics of Karl over some dumb shit like what language is being used to teach an introductory course. I think he's fairly well qualified to be President considering he didn't outright tell you to fuck off.

--
Joshua Boyd

E-mail: boy...@jbip.net

[Karl Wilbur]

Michael, 

I think we should bring this back onto the mailing list. 

My motivation is to make better *developers*. Is it far/right to recommend an inferior course of study simply because it (poorly) teaches people using PHP. Reading through the Purdue course, it is teaching bad practice, poor coding conventions, expecting students to use Visual Studio for managing a database, and much more. They are even using MS Word docs for their lab assignments!

After a short evaluation of the course, I would use it as an indicator of who *not* to hire.

I have over a decade of PHP development experience. But I am not going to let my preference for a language keep me from making better developers. It is not about the language, it is about the understanding web application development that is of much greater importance.

If someone want to learn PHP, I am here to help. But am not going to insist that all web development *must* be done in PHP not would I consider a course that teach web development inferior simply because it doesn't use PHP.

What the Cincinnati Web Tech Study Group is doing is going to help make better developers. Period.

--
Karl Wilbur
513-322-2481
ka...@karlwilbur.net

[Freeman Chari]

From my short experience concepts matter more than syntax in programming. I learnt Java in 2004 using http://math.hws.edu/javanotes/ and this guy is the best author I have encountered! So when I switched to PHP in 07, the concepts I had learnt in Java OOP came in hand when PHP5 became popular. So I think, which ever language that gives prospective and current developers a chance to understand the concepts/semantics would be valuable

[Dan Rye]

Language shouldn't matter to quality developers or people who want to become quality developers.

I learned using C and C++, in the real world I've used ~20 other languages.  Quality training no matter the language is still quality training.

—
Sent from Mailbox for iPhone

[Michael Beck]

Josh,

 

1) this was a private message to Karl, which he unfortunately decided to make public :( 

 

2) I believe that I know Karl well enough to be able to ask him such questions in private.  

 

3) Nobody questioned Karl's ethics, so I have no idea how you come up with something like this! I respect Karl tremendously.

I am active on many non-profit boards, and there are certain "fiduciary duties" that we need to follow. Sometimes we don't think about it, so it is good to look after each other and ask those questions. This has nothing to do with trolling, but with looking after each other.  

 

4) I have not bashed Ruby, which is a good language, and I have never questioned that knowing more than one language is a good thing. I think, all of us agree with that.

The only thing that I was questioning was if this mailing list, which is dedicated to PHP, is the best venue to promote Web development courses based on Ruby, while there are tons of courses based on PHP, some better,some worse.  

 

I hope, you'll allow me to ask such question without getting offended and without the need for foul language :)

 

Michael 

---

From: Joshua Boyd [mailto:boy...@jbip.net]
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 16:09
To: oin...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Michael Beck; OINK-PUG Members

Subject: Re: [OINKPUG] Fwd: [Cincinnati-Web-Tech-Drinkup] Cincinnati Web/Tech Study Group

[Freeman Chari]

I like it when people get angry on behalf of others, reminds me of my country Zimbabwe - "quick thought"

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[Michael Beck]

He he he! I would like to believe that Karl can take care of himself and doesn't need people to get angry for him! :)

 

Especially, since I consider him a friend, and I know that he would have no problems telling me to to back off, if he would feel offended by me in any shape and form!  :)

 

Michael

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From: oin...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oin...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Freeman Chari
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 16:40
To: oin...@googlegroups.com