Stairs like the fremont hotel

[theodore barrow]

Dear esteemed experts on ephemeral architecture,

I have recently come across another watercolor by Emil Kosa from the
mid 50's of Bunker Hill, with a swell of stairs (similar to those in
front of the Fremont Hotel, but going down the opposite direction), a
building with green gable in the background, and the backs of a
tenements surrounded by empty lots. Kosa, unlike Millard Sheets who
picked and chose the motifs of Bunker Hill for his compositions
(Angel's Flight is missing the funicular, The front of the Melrose
Hotel overlooks Tenement Flats), usually is pretty accurate about his
locations and the appearance of buildings when he paints them, so I
was wondering if someone could help me locate this foundation. Were
there any other hotels in the neighborhood with the same type of
steps, swelling out going down a hill, as the Fremont?

That's the challenge for the day. As always, I am really excited to
see what people come up with.

All the best,

Ted

[theodore barrow]

Actually, I found it, thanks to OBH. If anybody's interested, I'd be
happy to share the images, as they're pretty fun. Hint: the back of
the building was photographed by Hylen.

[Richard Schave]

Theodore:

Please share. We can not wait, and thanks for your followup.

Richard

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[theodore barrow]

Ok, well. 

 I was put in touch with a collector of the California Watercolor Society, based on my research on Emil Kosa and Millard Sheets (for my yet-to-be-written Bunker HIll paper).  He was kind enough to show me some selections from his collection, including a painting from Kosa titled "Past Glory" from the early 50's (attached).  At first, I concentrated on the green-roofed tower looking building, but I knew there was something eerily familiar about the back of the apartment to its left.  I submitted my query, and waited.

Then, last night as I was trying to pin down which apartment building the final shoot-out of Kubrick's The Killers was shot in (seems like 2nd and Olive, am I right?), I re-visited this page (http://onbunkerhill.org/poorchoiceattheCarleton), and...voila! Thanks to the Sanborn map, and behind the Carleton you have the foundations of the Beth Israel Synagogue built in, what, 1903? And once I clicked on the link for the Beth Israel, my heart skipped a beat. Tears came to my eyes, literally.  Quite the Saturday night!

That unmistakable swell of steps climbing down Olive street is all that remains in Kosa's view, which I would peg as somewhere between 1950-53.  

And there you have it.  Thanks to this wonderful blog, once again, for helping me solve another one of those great dilemmas that keep us up at night. 

Bonus: I've attached some stills from The Killers with some sweet BH scenery!!!

Best wishes to you all,

Ted

--
Theodore Ward Barrow
Graduate student
PhD Program in Art History
Graduate Center, City University of New York
365 Fifth Avenue, New York NY 10016

[Kim Cooper]

Wow, Ted, what a wonderful discovery! No doubt locals remembered that
those steps once led up to the synagogue, and there was some unspoken
symbolism in the subject. Was Kosa Jewish, do you know?

Kim

[theodore barrow]

Hi Kim,

As far as I know, he was not.  He was born in Paris (the same year that the Synagogue was built, in fact), of Czechoslavakian descent.  I don't know when the building was destroyed, but he certainly would have been familiar with it.  The Fort Moore Hill area was one of his favorite art haunts, in fact his 1931 view of City Hall, painted above the Hill Street Tunnel, recently sold at auction for a pretty big sum.  I'll continue with my research on Kosa, and report any pertinent info when I come across it. 

Glad I could  share this!

Ted

[Aliotti Kristen]

the green roofed tower you are speaking of is the one in the upper right? 

so the steps belonged to the synagogue? (the steps in the watercolor are fantastic!) 

is there a photo of the synagogue? 

i am now going to google him, but regarding Kosa, who has (or where is) the largest collection of his work? 

your search and adventure sounds exciting - and rewarding! 

best regards

<kosa PG.jpg><Picture 8.png><Picture 9.png>

[Aliotti Kristen]

http://www.csulb.edu/~odinthor/socal9.html

is this series of pictures above familiar to all of you? 

just noticed the synagogue with the steps - i counted 8 in the picture, but it's clearly 9 steps in the painting 

http://onbunkerhill.org/poorchoiceattheCarleton

this above also showed up while googling

scroll down through, to a (handmade-looking) model - the synagogue is easy to find as it is red 

On May 22, 2011, at 9:01 AM, theodore barrow wrote:

[Aliotti Kristen]

Some quick views of the east side of the 200 block of North Grand:

At left, from the Birdseye, the block in 1909; it’s a bustling part of the world.

Below, the Sanborn Map, 1906.

SO, DOES THIS SHOW THE SYNAGOGUE WHERE THE STEPS WERE, THE CARLETON HOTEL IN BACK AND THE "GREEN" TOWER BEING ON THE ANGELO HOTEL? 

p.s. I know nothing about this area - just starting to learn about it!! - but just wondering - this birdseye view could be where the Kosa painting was painted, perhaps? with those "tenements" behind? 

have you already seen this drawing/graphic, Theodore? 

i guess my question is: what building had the tower with the green roof (in Kosa painting)? could it be the "Angelo" hotel as seen here? 

On May 22, 2011, at 9:01 AM, theodore barrow wrote:

[theodore barrow]

Aaah, It could be the  St. Angelo, but is more likely the Everett, which I'm not particularly familiar with, but seems like it would fit.  

Another question, unrelated and perhaps worth of its own post: were there any other retaining walls (besides the Hope St terrace) on the Hill? I"m trying to imagine any, but all I'm coming up with is (literally) dirt.  Any help would be, as always appreciated.

[Kim Cooper]

Tonight I learned that Mr. Kosa didn't just paint ruins of old Bunker
Hill... he also painted sad clowns, which were displayed in the
Bilmore Hotel!

See image below, from USC's Examiner archives:
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assetserver/controller/view/EXM-N-12405-001~1

Kim

[theodore barrow]

I am truly speechless! 

[theodore barrow]

Sad clowns? Or, this being Bunker Hill after all, seedy, down and out, and potentially KILLER clowns? 

(again, a screen-grab from Kubrick's The Killing, where the post-heist meet-up was on 2nd and Olive)

[Dianne Patrizzi]

Hilarious Kim!

[Richard Roth]

1937 image of Beth Israel 227 N. olive street.  The carlton is visible on the far right – Image Los Angeles Public Library

 

 

Richard Lee Roth, CSI

Senior Associate - Nichols Page Design Associates

6975 Stirling Road

Davie, FL  33314

 

r...@npda.com

 

ph 954-771-5177 ext. 25

fx  954-771-2031

cl  954-612-2003

 

www.npda.com

[Richard Roth]

You mean other than these?

 

North side of hill street tunnel

 

 

South side of hill street tunnel

 

 

Before 2^nd street was widened and the tunnel constructed, there was a retaining wall on the north side of 2^nd at hill, visible on the right side of the photograph

 

 

The empty lot between 2^nd hill and olive court, certainly always looked like it needed something more substantial than that wooden fence at the bottom of the cliff!

 

 

That’s about all I can think of……………………….

 

Richard Lee Roth, CSI

Senior Associate - Nichols Page Design Associates

6975 Stirling Road

Davie, FL  33314

 

r...@npda.com

 

ph 954-771-5177 ext. 25

fx  954-771-2031

cl  954-612-2003

 

www.npda.com

 

From: offbun...@googlegroups.com [mailto:offbun...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of theodore barrow

Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 11:13 PM
To: offbun...@googlegroups.com

[Richard Roth]

A couple more retaining walls,

 

The hildreth house at hope and 4^th

 

 

The 5^th street retaining wall between grand and hope after the library was built

 

 

 

 

 

 

Richard Lee Roth, CSI

Senior Associate - Nichols Page Design Associates

6975 Stirling Road

Davie, FL  33314

 

r...@npda.com

 

ph 954-771-5177 ext. 25

fx  954-771-2031

cl  954-612-2003

 

www.npda.com

 

From: offbun...@googlegroups.com [mailto:offbun...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of theodore barrow
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 11:13 PM
To: offbun...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)

 

Aaah, It could be the  St. Angelo, but is more likely the Everett, which I'm not particularly familiar with, but seems like it would fit.  

[theodore barrow]

Richard--

Thank you.  These are all gorgeous (and I think I can picture where most of them once were), but the wall I'm looking for is a poured concrete buttressed affair, topped not by a balustrade nor garnished with engaged columns (like the Hope terrace or the walls of the NYPL), but simply a rickety wooden fence and crowned by the back of a wooden shack.  With permission of one of the other members pending, I'd be happy to share the image. 

I've made a lot of scans of Kosa's BH views, which I would be happy to share in a later post. 

Best wishes,

Ted

[Nathan Marsak]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5322680&postcount=4078

On May 23, 10:43 am, theodore barrow <theodore.bar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Richard--
>
> Thank you.  These are all gorgeous (and I think I can picture where most of
> them once were), but the wall I'm looking for is a poured concrete
> buttressed affair, topped not by a balustrade nor garnished with engaged
> columns (like the Hope terrace or the walls of the NYPL), but simply a
> rickety wooden fence and crowned by the back of a wooden shack.  With
> permission of one of the other members pending, I'd be happy to share the
> image.
>
> I've made a lot of scans of Kosa's BH views, which I would be happy to share
> in a later post.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Richard Roth <r...@npda.com> wrote:
> > A couple more retaining walls,
>
> > The hildreth house at hope and 4th
>

> > The 5th street retaining wall between grand and hope after the library was
> > built
>

> > Richard Lee Roth, CSI
>
> > Senior Associate - Nichols Page Design Associates
>
> > 6975 Stirling Road
>
> > Davie, FL  33314
>
> > r...@npda.com
>
> > ph 954-771-5177 ext. 25
>
> > fx  954-771-2031
>
> > cl  954-612-2003
>
> >www.npda.com
>

> > *From:* offbun...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > offbun...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *theodore barrow
> > *Sent:* Sunday, May 22, 2011 11:13 PM
> > *To:* offbun...@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON

> > BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)
>
> > Aaah, It could be the  St. Angelo, but is more likely the Everett, which
> > I'm not particularly familiar with, but seems like it would fit.
>
> > Another question, unrelated and perhaps worth of its own post: were there
> > any other retaining walls (besides the Hope St terrace) on the Hill? I"m
> > trying to imagine any, but all I'm coming up with is (literally) dirt.  Any
> > help would be, as always appreciated.
>

> > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Aliotti Kristen <kristenalio...@cox.net>

> > wrote:
>
> > Some quick views of the east side of the 200 block of North Grand:
>
> > [image: fromthebe1909]At left, from the Birdseye, the block in 1909; it’s
> > a bustling part of the world.
>
> > Below, the Sanborn Map, 1906.
>
> > SO, DOES THIS SHOW THE SYNAGOGUE WHERE THE STEPS WERE, THE CARLETON HOTEL
> > IN BACK AND THE "GREEN" TOWER BEING ON THE ANGELO HOTEL?
>
> > p.s. I know nothing about this area - just starting to learn about it!! -
> > but just wondering - this birdseye view could be where the Kosa painting was
> > painted, perhaps? with those "tenements" behind?
>
> > have you already seen this drawing/graphic, Theodore?
>
> > i guess my question is: what building had the tower with the green roof (in
> > Kosa painting)? could it be the "Angelo" hotel as seen here?
>
> > On May 22, 2011, at 9:01 AM, theodore barrow wrote:
>
> > Ok, well.
>
> >  I was put in touch with a collector of the California Watercolor Society,
> > based on my research on Emil Kosa and Millard Sheets (for my
> > yet-to-be-written Bunker HIll paper).  He was kind enough to show me some
> > selections from his collection, including a painting from Kosa titled "Past
> > Glory" from the early 50's (attached).  At first, I concentrated on the
> > green-roofed tower looking building, but I knew there was something eerily
> > familiar about the back of the apartment to its left.  I submitted my query,
> > and waited.
>
> > Then, last night as I was trying to pin down which apartment building the

> > final shoot-out of Kubrick's *The Killers *was shot in (seems like 2nd and

> > Olive, am I right?), I re-visited this page (
> >http://onbunkerhill.org/poorchoiceattheCarleton), and...voila! Thanks to
> > the Sanborn map, and behind the Carleton you have the foundations of the
> > Beth Israel Synagogue built in, what, 1903? And once I clicked on the link
> > for the Beth Israel, my heart skipped a beat. Tears came to my eyes,
> > literally.  Quite the Saturday night!
>
> > That unmistakable swell of steps climbing down Olive street is all that
> > remains in Kosa's view, which I would peg as somewhere between 1950-53.
>
> > And there you have it.  Thanks to this wonderful blog, once again, for
> > helping me solve another one of those great dilemmas that keep us up at
> > night.
>
> > Bonus: I've attached some stills from The Killers with some sweet BH
> > scenery!!!
>
> > Best wishes to you all,
>
> > Ted
>

> > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Richard Schave <schaves...@gmail.com>

>  image001.png
> 683KViewDownload
>
>  image002.png
> 667KViewDownload

[theodore barrow]

ooh, that's a great little history. I found one more photo that must have been taken from the rickety fire escape of the Carleton, looking down onto the back of Beth Israel, before it was turned down. You can almost see the visitors dismissively muttering "blight" and "slum" and "Shining Hall of Records of the Future" under their breaths...

[Gordon Pattison]

What an amazing photo!  They all are.  Thanks for sharing.

 

Gordon Pattison

[Byron Dillon]

I read with great interest your discussion of stairs on Bunker Hill.  In 1935, middle of the Great Depression, I attended Central Jr. High 450 N. Hill (closed and levelled circa 1937). Each day I walked down  to 2nd. and Hill streets where I  picked up my newspapers. It was directly in front of the beautiful old fire station complete with great old engines, plus a chrome pole where firemen would jump out of bed, on the second floor, wrap themselves around it and slide to the floor sometimes, half asleep, they'd splat on the floor.

 

 

At 3rd. and Hill, alongside  Angels Flight there was a long flight of stairs with over 200+  stairs going to the top of Bunker Hill . I climbed those stairs each day to take newspapers to a rack in front of the Angel Flight station, then back down hence to 437 Hill St. Subway Terminal Bldg., to work each day until 6:00 p.m. selling newspapers.

 

At days end I trudged back on Hill to 2nd then into the 2nd. St.. tunnel to my small home at 134 N. Bixel St.  All my youth was spent on the streets of LA.  I also delivered telegrams for the old Postal Telegraph Co. so there is no street and no building that I haven't been to deliver telegrams.  During the Great Depression we would do any kind of work availaable for a few coins each day.

 

I apologize for reminiscing.

 

Byron Dillon

byron...@msn.com

[Aliotti Kristen]

loved the reminiscences! - you should be interviewed - great story/stories! 

best regards,

Kristen Aliotti

San Diego 

[robert barkaloff]

I am grateful for your input, and I agree with Kristen A ... you should be interviewed.

On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Byron Dillon wrote:

[Byron Dillon]

And in addition to the steps, etc., don't forget little Clay Street .  It was a beautiful little street of about three short blocks, running parallel to Hill St.. Clay which was lined with several beautiful old buildings. This street began near 1st. Street ending at about 3rd. and it ran just under the bridge where Angels Flight ran.  This little street, in addition to many other great things on Bunker Hill, was bulldozed to oblivion many years ago along with the beautiful little homes.  

 

Another great item was the small streetcar  (probably the smallest yellow car in the LA Railway system) which sat on 1st. street on the south west corner just at Hill St..  I'd board it about 6:30 p.m., after standing several hours selling newspapers on the streets. Few people traveled on it at that hour, most had left for home earlier. Sitting quietly on that car I'd watch the conductor counting his change, arranging transfers, and preparing the little car to move up hill. The motorman, in front, was making arrangements to begin our journey. He'd reach for the leather thong over his head and pulled it several times to ring the big bell on top of the car. This bell signaled to all that he was going to move up Bunker Hill. The little car moved slowly up hill and at intersections the motor man would frequently ring the bell signally to one and all we'd be rocketing through the intersection. Going up was 

 slow but at top of Bunker Hill he'd reduce power and let the little car rocket down hill to Flower St. then to Figueroa.  What a heady, exciting trip.  He'd stop at Fig. then continue up the hill to Belmont High School.  After passengers alighted he'd turn the little car around preparing for the return trip to 1st. and Hill.

[Leslie Caldera]

Mr. Dillon, This is really great information. I will continue to read as long as you're willing to type. All the photos and history tell only part of the history of Los Angeles. Those such as yourself, who lived it and still remember, really bring our city's history to life. Thank you very much. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Byron Dillon <byron...@msn.com> wrote:

[Nathan Marsak]

Yes, Mr. Dillon, you should apologize for reminiscing, after all I was so busy watching, oh, Lady Gaga videos, that I wasn't possibly thinking about someone with first-hand knowledge of Bunker Hill! 

I don't know where your favorite restaurant in town is, but, breakfast/lunch/dinner is on me.  We should invite Kim and Richard, of course, and Gordon Pattison, whom you might know from here as the gent whose family owned the Castle and Salt Box and the story gets better from there.  And whomever else might want to join in on the affair. 

If you're so inclined, of course.  If I may be so bold as to make another suggestion:  it should, I think, be somewhere with wi-fi, because despite my notorious reputation as a luddite, I am surprisingly quick at calling up images of assorted Bunker Hill street corners from a laptop should the need present.

Not that I want to deprive our readers here on offbunkerhill of your experiences -- please continue!  I concur with Leslie; we will read with eager eyes as long as you type. 

Thanking you in advance,

Nathan Marsak

[Gordon Pattison]

What a great idea, Nathan!  I would love to be along and cohost. 

 

My father who was also named Gordon Pattison went to Central Jr. High School beginning in 1935.  Central was soon torn down.  He said that while a new Jr. High was being built, the students went to class at Belmont High.  The new Jr. High was built at Sunset (Caesar Chavez) and Grand where the Performing Arts school is now.  He graduated from Jr. High there in 1938 and went on to Belmont for high school.  He also told me that he would often take the stairs next to Angels Flight to save the fare during the Depression.

 

Let’s get together.  I would love to meet you, Mr. Dillon.

 

Sincerely,

[Richard Schave]

May I suggest that this luncheon occur at the pub at the Los Angeles Athletic Club (Duke's)?  Free parking, goid food, reasonable prices, close to Angels Flight.

Please let me know.

I am so glad Nathan & I gdt to organize this.

Richard

On Jun 21, 2011 6:39 PM, "Nathan Marsak" <marsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, Mr. Dillon, you *should* apologize for reminiscing, after all I was so
> busy watching, oh, Lady Gaga videos, that I wasn't *possibly* thinking about

>> --- On *Tue, 6/21/11, Byron Dillon <byron...@msn.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Byron Dillon <byron...@msn.com>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON BUNKER
>> HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)
>> To: offbun...@googlegroups.com
>> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 5:56 PM
>>
>>

>> *And in addition to the steps, etc., don't forget little Clay Street . It

>> was a beautiful little street of about three short blocks, running parallel
>> to Hill St.. Clay which was lined with several beautiful old buildings. This
>> street began near 1st. Street ending at about 3rd. and it ran just under the
>> bridge where Angels Flight ran. This little street, in addition to many
>> other great things on Bunker Hill, was bulldozed to oblivion many years ago

>> along with the beautiful little homes. *
>> **
>> *Another great item was the small streetcar (probably the smallest yellow

>> car in the LA Railway system) which sat on 1st. street on the south west
>> corner just at Hill St.. I'd board it about 6:30 p.m., after standing
>> several hours selling newspapers on the streets. Few people traveled on it
>> at that hour, most had left for home earlier. Sitting quietly on that car
>> I'd watch the conductor counting his change, arranging transfers, and
>> preparing the little car to move up hill. The motorman, in front, was making
>> arrangements to begin our journey. He'd reach for the leather thong over his
>> head and pulled it several times to ring the big bell on top of the
>> car. This bell signaled to all that he was going to move up Bunker Hill. The
>> little car moved slowly up hill and at intersections the motor man would
>> frequently ring the bell signally to one and all we'd be rocketing through

>> the intersection. Going up was *
>> * slow but at top of Bunker Hill he'd reduce power and let the little car

>> rocket down hill to Flower St. then to Figueroa. What a heady, exciting
>> trip. He'd stop at Fig. then continue up the hill to Belmont High School.
>> After passengers alighted he'd turn the little car around preparing for the

>> return trip to 1st. and Hill. *
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Aliotti Kristen <http://mc/compose?to=kristen...@cox.net>
>> *To:* offbun...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=offbun...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2011 2:01 PM

>> *Subject:* Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON
>> BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)
>>

>> loved the reminiscences! - you should be interviewed - great
>> story/stories!
>>
>> best regards,
>> Kristen Aliotti
>> San Diego
>>
>>
>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Byron Dillon wrote:
>>

>> *I read with great interest your discussion of stairs on Bunker Hill. In

>> 1935, middle of the Great Depression, I attended Central Jr. High 450 N.
>> Hill (closed and levelled circa 1937). Each day I walked down to 2nd. and
>> Hill streets where I picked up my newspapers. It was directly in front of
>> the beautiful old fire station complete with great old engines, plus a
>> chrome pole where firemen would jump out of bed, on the second floor, wrap
>> themselves around it and slide to the floor sometimes, half asleep, they'd

>> splat on the floor.*
>>
>> **
>> *At 3rd. and Hill, alongside Angels Flight there was a long flight of

>> stairs with over 200+ stairs going to the top of Bunker Hill . I climbed
>> those stairs each day to take newspapers to a rack in front of the Angel
>> Flight station, then back down hence to 437 Hill St. Subway Terminal Bldg.,

>> to work each day until 6:00 p.m. selling newspapers.*
>> **
>> *At days end I trudged back on Hill to 2nd then into the 2nd. St.. tunnel

>> to my small home at 134 N. Bixel St. All my youth was spent on the streets
>> of LA. I also delivered telegrams for the old Postal Telegraph Co. so there
>> is no street and no building that I haven't been to deliver telegrams.
>> During the Great Depression we would do any kind of work availaable for a

>> few coins each day.*
>> **
>> *I apologize for reminiscing.*
>> **
>> *Byron Dillon*
>> *byron...@msn.com <http://mc/compose?to=byron...@msn.com>*
>> **
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Gordon Pattison<http://mc/compose?to=gpat...@pattisoninstitute.com>
>> *To:* offbun...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=offbun...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2011 10:20 PM
>> *Subject:* RE: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON

>> BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)
>>
>> What an amazing photo! They all are. Thanks for sharing.
>> Gordon Pattison

>> *From:* offbun...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=offbun...@googlegroups.com>
>> [mailto:offbun...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=offbun...@googlegroups.com>

>> ] *On Behalf Of *theodore barrow

>> *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2011 10:12 PM
>> *To:* offbun...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=offbun...@googlegroups.com>

>> *Subject:* Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON
>> BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)
>>

>> ooh, that's a great little history. I found one more photo that must have
>> been taken from the rickety fire escape of the Carleton, looking down onto
>> the back of Beth Israel, before it was turned down. You can almost see the
>> visitors dismissively muttering "blight" and "slum" and "Shining Hall of
>> Records of the Future" under their breaths...

>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Nathan Marsak <marsa...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=marsa...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5322680&postcount=4078
>>
>> On May 23, 10:43 am, theodore barrow <theodore.bar...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=theodore.bar...@gmail.com>

>> >
>> wrote:
>> > Richard--
>> >
>> > Thank you. These are all gorgeous (and I think I can picture where most
>> of
>> > them once were), but the wall I'm looking for is a poured concrete
>> > buttressed affair, topped not by a balustrade nor garnished with engaged
>> > columns (like the Hope terrace or the walls of the NYPL), but simply a
>> > rickety wooden fence and crowned by the back of a wooden shack. With
>> > permission of one of the other members pending, I'd be happy to share the
>> > image.
>> >
>> > I've made a lot of scans of Kosa's BH views, which I would be happy to
>> share
>> > in a later post.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> >
>> > Ted
>> >
>> >
>> >

>> > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Richard Roth <r...@npda.com<http://mc/compose?to=r...@npda.com>>

>> wrote:
>> > > A couple more retaining walls,
>> >
>> > > The hildreth house at hope and 4th
>> >
>> > > The 5th street retaining wall between grand and hope after the library
>> was
>> > > built
>> >
>> > > Richard Lee Roth, CSI
>> >
>> > > Senior Associate - Nichols Page Design Associates
>> >
>> > > 6975 Stirling Road
>> >
>> > > Davie, FL 33314
>> >

>> > > r...@npda.com <http://mc/compose?to=r...@npda.com>

>> >
>> > > ph 954-771-5177 ext. 25
>> >
>> > > fx 954-771-2031
>> >
>> > > cl 954-612-2003
>> >
>> > >www.npda.com
>> >

>> > > *From:* offbun...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=offbun...@googlegroups.com>
>> [mailto:
>> > > offbun...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=offbun...@googlegroups.com>]

>> *On Behalf Of *theodore barrow
>> > > *Sent:* Sunday, May 22, 2011 11:13 PM

>> > > *To:* offbun...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=offbun...@googlegroups.com>

>> > > *Subject:* Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON
>> > > BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)
>> >
>> > > Aaah, It could be the St. Angelo, but is more likely the Everett,
>> which
>> > > I'm not particularly familiar with, but seems like it would fit.
>> >
>> > > Another question, unrelated and perhaps worth of its own post: were
>> there
>> > > any other retaining walls (besides the Hope St terrace) on the Hill?
>> I"m
>> > > trying to imagine any, but all I'm coming up with is (literally) dirt.
>> Any
>> > > help would be, as always appreciated.
>> >
>> > > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Aliotti Kristen <

>> kristenalio...@cox.net <http://mc/compose?to=kristenalio...@cox.net>>

>> > > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Richard Schave <schaves...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=schaves...@gmail.com>

>> >
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Theodore:
>> >
>> > > Please share. We can not wait, and thanks for your followup.
>> >
>> > > Richard
>> >
>> > > On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 8:50 PM, theodore barrow

>> > > <theodore.bar...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=theodore.bar...@gmail.com>>

>> wrote:
>> > > > Actually, I found it, thanks to OBH. If anybody's interested, I'd be
>> > > > happy to share the images, as they're pretty fun. Hint: the back of
>> > > > the building was photographed by Hylen.
>> >

>> > > > On May 19, 9:48 am, theodore barrow <theodore.bar...@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=theodore.bar...@gmail.com>>

>> wrote:
>> > > >> Dear esteemed experts on ephemeral architecture,
>> >
>> > > >> I have recently come across another watercolor by Emil Kosa from the
>> > > >> mid 50's of Bunker Hill, with a swell of stairs (similar to those in
>> > > >> front of the Fremont Hotel, but going down the opposite direction),
>> a
>> > > >> building with green gable in the background, and the backs of a
>> > > >> tenements surrounded by empty lots. Kosa, unlike Millard Sheets who
>> > > >> picked and chose the motifs of Bunker Hill for his compositions
>> > > >> (Angel's Flight is missing the funicular, The front of the Melrose
>> > > >> Hotel overlooks Tenement Flats), usually is pretty accurate about
>> his
>> > > >> locations and the appearance of buildings when he paints them, so I
>> > > >> was wondering if someone could help me locate this foundation. Were
>> > > >> there any other hotels in the neighborhood with the same type of
>> > > >> steps, swelling out going down a hill, as the Fremont?
>> >
>> > > >> That's the challenge for the day. As always, I am really excited to
>> > > >> see what people come up with.
>> >
>> > > >> All the best,
>> >
>> > > >> Ted
>> >
>> > > > --
>> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>> > > "offbunkerhill" group.

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>> .
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>> .
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>> >
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>> >
>> > > --
>> > > Theodore Ward Barrow
>> > > Graduate student
>> > > PhD Program in Art History
>> > > Graduate Center, City University of New York
>> > > 365 Fifth Avenue, New York NY 10016
>> >
>> > > --
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>> .
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>> > >http://groups.google.com/group/offbunkerhill?hl=en.
>> > > <kosa PG.jpg><Picture 8.png><Picture 9.png>
>> >
>> > > --
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>> >
>> > > --
>> > > Theodore Ward Barrow
>> > > Graduate student
>> > > PhD Program in Art History
>> > > Graduate Center, City University of New York
>> > > 365 Fifth Avenue, New York NY 10016
>> >
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>> >
>> > --
>> > Theodore Ward Barrow
>> > Graduate student
>> > PhD Program in Art History
>> > Graduate Center, City University of New York
>> > 365 Fifth Avenue, New York NY 10016
>> >
>> > image001.png
>> > 683KViewDownload
>> >
>> > image002.png
>> > 667KViewDownload
>>
>> --
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Theodore Ward Barrow
>> Graduate student
>> PhD Program in Art History
>> Graduate Center, City University of New York
>> 365 Fifth Avenue, New York NY 10016
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[stryde...@yahoo.com]

Wonderful personal history!

------Original Message------
From: Byron Dillon
Sender: Off Bunker Hill
To: Off Bunker Hill
ReplyTo: Off Bunker Hill
Subject: Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)

Sent: Jun 21, 2011 1:30 PM

I read with great interest your discussion of stairs on Bunker Hill.  In 1935, middle of the Great Depression, I attended Central Jr. High 450 N. Hill (closed and levelled circa 1937). Each day I walked down  to 2nd. and Hill streets where I  picked up my newspapers. It was directly in front of the beautiful old fire station complete with great old engines, plus a chrome pole where firemen would jump out of bed, on the second floor, wrap themselves around it and slide to the floor sometimes, half asleep, they'd splat on the floor.     At 3rd. and Hill, alongside  Angels Flight there was a long flight of stairs with over 200+  stairs going to the top of Bunker Hill . I climbed those stairs each day to take newspapers to a rack in front of the Angel Flight station, then back down hence to 437 Hill St. Subway Terminal Bldg., to work each day until 6:00 p.m. selling newspapers.   At days end I trudged back on Hill to 2nd then into the 2nd. St.. tunnel to my small home at 134 N. Bixel St.  All my youth was spent on the streets of LA.  I also delivered telegrams for the old Postal Telegraph Co. so there is no street and no building that I haven't been to deliver telegrams.  During the Great Depression we would do any kind of work availaable for a few coins each day.   I apologize for reminiscing.   Byron Dillon byron...@msn.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Pattison To: offbun...@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:20 PM Subject: RE: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT) What an amazing photo!  They all are.  Thanks for sharing.
 
Gordon Pattison

 
 
From: offbun...@googlegroups.com [mailto:offbun...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of theodore barrow Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:12 PM To: offbun...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)
 
ooh, that's a great little history. I found one more photo that must have been taken from the rickety fire escape of th

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

[Byron Dillon]

Gordon,

 

Yes you are correct that Central Jr. High was demolished for the LA Board of Education Bldg. ( I think).   The last year for Central was 1937.   I know since that was the year I graduated and yes you are correct that we all transferred to Belmont High to finish Jr. High.

The stairs located on 3rd street along side Angels Flight  paralleling the 3rd street tunnel were indeed long and difficult to climb.  There were 200+ stairs.

Bunker Hill in the great Depression suffered just as badly as many other locations. After a year or two many of the beautiful old mansions were divided internally into small rooms to be rented  to very poor people, mainly senior citizens.  The people in that area suffered just as much as the rest of us in LA.   As for crime, no more and no less than other areas.  It wasn't a big deal on BH.   And speaking of the 3rd. street tunnel, it was smaller, darker, and less pleasant to walk or drive through while the 2nd. st. tunnel was great.  Many an evening I would ride my bike through it during peak traffic hours.  The exhaujst fummes were thick.

[Robert B. Powers Jr.]

You stated that the last year you attended Central Jr. High was in 1937 and that was the year you "graduated"...yet you go on to say that you went to Belmont High to finish Jr. High...I'm confused.  According to my calculations...you were born about 1923, yes?

 

---

From: byron...@msn.com

To: offbun...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:47:15 -0700

[Byron Dillon]

You have a sharp eye and yes you are correct.  I did grad. from Central 1937, the year the old building was levelled.   I did go to Belmont but only after I graduated from Central in 1937.  In the future I shall prevail upon you to do my proof reading. Ha, ha. And I was born 11-26-1921.....I'm just a kid!!.

[Robert B. Powers Jr.]

Thanks for your reply...I would love to hear more stories about Bunker Hill from the "good ole days"...you are so lucky to have been there...do you still live in the LA area?  I was born at the General Hospital in 1934...my (biological) mother was living at 116 South Hope St. at the time.  As I was adopted soon after...I didn't know about my Bunker Hill connection until the late 50's.  Would like to read more of your "exploits"....I will like to write you at your email address with your kind permission. 
 

---

From: byron...@msn.com
To: offbun...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:13:35 -0700

[Byron Dillon]

Another piece of trivia, for what it's worth, and it's from memory,  access to BH by street on the south was Grand Ave.. from 5th street just by the Biltmore Hotel. Another street nearby was just behind the old Sunkist Bldg. (on 5th St.). No streets on the East only stairs. On the North several streets going South from 1st. Street, i.e. Hope, Grand. Nothing on the West.

Grand Ave.  (at 5th St.) was interesting since it was very steep. We telegram delivery boys from Postal Telegraph Co. would occasionally gather there with our bicycles to see who, and how many of us could ride our bikes up without zig-zagging.  Only one or two of us could perform this almost impossible feat.  The prize for the lucky ones to make the climb: a pat on the back and much praise plus bragging rights from the rest of us. Grand at 5th, at this location, was not nearly as steep as Fargo Street. Those of you with maps of that era can check out my "facts".

Central Market, then as now, ran from Hill to Broadway and today this Market is just like it looked in the Great Depression.  Lugging groceries up to BH was difficult.

As all of you students of BH know across the street from the Million Dollar Theatre, at 3rd and Broadway, South East corner is the beautiful old Bradbury Bldg. The owner of that building would walk to 3rd. and Hill and take Angeles Flight to his home on BH.  The architect of this historic, beautiful old brick building was an employee in that building. It was his first and last job. He had no experience, training, or education in architecture.  Bradbury Bldg is probably one of the oldest buildings and most beautiful in LA.  It will be interesting to learn from you sharp eyed readers all the errors in this hunk of trivia. Some of your readers might find what they think is an error:  I sold newspapers in front of the Subway Terminal Bldg. 437 S. Hill then I moved on to delivering telegrams for Postal Telegraph Co. 215 W. 5th street, the Chester Wms. Bldg.  It was announce a few weeks ago, the Chester Wms. Bldg. will be converted to apts. and condos.

[Leslie Caldera]

At the tender age of 59, I am among the oldest of a group of cycling enthusiasts who ride in many historic areas of Los Angeles. One of the rides we do annually is up Fargo Street in Silverlake. Called the "steepest street in L.A"., it is actually a percent of a degree shy of Eldred in El Sereno and a street in San Pedro. Fargo is, however, the longest continuous grade of 33% and therefor the toughest street to ride a bike up in the city. I made it up this year, with a bit of "zig-zagging", on a modern mountain bike. I would have loved to attempt the old Grand Avenue climb, but my guess is you fellas were riding heavy steel single gear bikes back then. Any hill would be a challenge on those bikes! Byron, were you one of those who "peaked" the hill in a straight run? Wish I were there.

[Byron Dillon]

Nathan,

Thank you for your most generous offer of bkfst./lunch/dinner and I apologize for my late response to your offer. I am a considerably older, senior citizen so I don't get around nearly as well as in the past.  It would be difficult for me to take you up on your offer  but I do appreciate your most gracious offer to me.

Thank you,

Byron Dillon

[Richard Roth]

 

 

Here’s a good comparison of what the hill on grand street leading up from 5^th used to look like (photograph is from 1954), compared with today.  that is indeed quite a grade to bike up in a straight line

 

[Byron Dillon]

Bunker Hill was an interesting place in the Great Depression (Oct. 1929-1941). Many old people wandering around since most of these homes were sectioned off and rented to poor people. Crime in BH was minimal, a reflection of LA in general. The old buildings were beautiful with their unique architecture. Just a few blocks to the west was Bixel St. As a teenager I lived with my parents half way up the hill at 134 N Bixel. We had a small two story home sectioned for three families. During the Depression my youth was spent on the streets of LA selling newspapers and delivering telegrams for Postal Telegraph Co.

 Dotting this hill were several working oil wells. All day and night soft melodious sounds came from these wells as the wood derricks pumped oil. A large thick greased cable high above our homes ran from one derrick to the other providing power from one source. No air-condition those days so we kept our windows open to catch an occasional breeze. The wonderful aroma of night blooming jasmine drifted in.

Many years ago a large corporation bought all of that section of the hill then they leveled all those beautiful old homes in preparation for new buildings.  This never happened but several years later LA School District erected the 200+ million dollar Belmont Learning Center corner Beaudry and 1^st. street.  When completed, it was discovered methane gas, from old oil wells seeped into the buildings. A great hue and cry went up from those worried about methane gas in class rooms but no one considered those of us who had lived there many years with no ill effects.

 

[flo...@aol.com]

I had forgotten about the oil wells around the Beaudry St. area.  If memory serves there were still a few operating in the 1950's.

As for the methane I remember that after heavy rains the smell would be very strong in the Central Library building where I worked

as a messenger.  No one seemed to take it seriously but they did install a very sofisticated methane detection system in the new building.

Byron, thanks for sharing.

 

Frank

[Byron Dillon]

Frank,

I understand methane gas is odorless, tasteless, colorless but who am I to say.   I should be an expert since I spent a great deal of time around those old wooden oil wells and yes they pumped day and night.  The sound of the greased cable passing over large wheels 24-7 was a never to be forgotten sound.

Each day I would wind my way over many streets in that area on my way to Central Jr. High located at 450 N. Hill St..  Our tiny apartment was unbelievably small but rent only $12.00 per month.  Our meals were rather meager consisting of plenty of beans, rice, peanut butter, etc.  Oh those days of the Great Depression. Our favorite market:  Central Mkt. on 3rd street between Hill and Broadway, next to the Million Dollar Theater. We drove our four door 1928 Pontiac sedan, the auto we used over hwy. 66 from Chicago to LA. to the mkt to transport our purchases.

Our recent "Recession" sent shivers down my spine thinking of the similarity to the Big one of 1929...

[Byron Dillon]

This morning I was reminiscing about BH and all the surrounding interesting areas. Central Jr. Hi was only a few blocks from BH. This school was one of the oldest in the LA school system. Our athletic field was large and it was formerly a burial site for many old-time Angelinos. One small brick mausoleum with a beautifully designed iron gate  still remained. Some of my fellow students said they could see through the gate the long hair of the resident cascading down to and along the floor. Try as I may, I never could see this but many said it was there.  My best friend at school was Joe Kline. Joe enjoyed playing handball and the small mausoleum stood near by the court. Joe and I, both 90+ years with great memories, are still friends these past 75+ years. When Central closed and demolishing progressed backhoes  scraped the surface and the  remains of these long ago citizens was piled up and dumped in nearby ravines.  Joe and I still have great memories of the old days but soon we shall depart and our computers will shut down forever and a great wealth of information of these early days of LA will be lost forever.  Ah, the price of progress!

 

Soon I shall add another load of information about  these early years. If you don't like it, the delete button can be clicked.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

[Aliotti Kristen]

something similar happened here in San Diego - gravestones (and remains) dumped in a ravine - later some "memorial" stones were rescued and re-placed in a grassy spot nearby - but definitely not the same 

[Leslie Caldera]

Byron, I find your history on the hill completely fascinating. Keep typing and we'll keep reading and continue being enlightened. I rode my bike up Bixel and around that area last week, but there is little remaining to suggest what was once there.

[Byron Dillon]

Day, after day and NOTHING on the BH site so here we go for another great gem from the past. The SUBWAY TERMINAL building at 437 S. Hill St., just down the hill from BH., in 1935 I sold newspapers (The Hollywood Citizen News) in front of this location. Next to me an older man sold the hot selling Hearst yellow journalism news paper The Herald. This paper sold as they used to say "like hot cakes".  This guy sold bundle after bundle of that newspaper. When an especially hot news item in town was in print, trucks would drive by and drop off stack of stack for this guy to sell while this little 15 year boy sold his  few meager copies. We newsboys had a coin changer on our belt which consisted of tubes of pennies, nickels, quarters.  To make change we merely pressed a lever which would drop the necessary change for the customer. In slack times during the afternoon we would stand idylly by continuing to drop the coins in our hands and reinserting them in the tubes. It beat picking our noses and/or biting our finger nails.

 

Studies of that site indicated about 40,000 people came and went through those portals each work day. People would walk from downtown offices and from the Financial District on Spring St.   to the Subway. Saturday and Sunday were days off for us long suffering newsboys. One man I shall never forget.  He, like most men those days, wore a felt hat,   suit and tie. I can clearly see him now as he broke free from the crowd of people heading for me to buy a paper. He'd drop a few coins in my hand, greet me each time with a smile and a few words of wisdom. Oh how I looked forward to this wonderful man, my best customer. I can still clearly see him now. With a few coins in my hand I  walked half a block to 5th and Hill to the corner  United Cigar tobacco shop or the Thrifty Drug Store where I would buy a chocolate bar.

 

The yellow LA Railway street cars ran up and down Hill St.. People alighted from them then head into the Subway to catch a subway car home through the tunnel.  Often they would drop on the street a "transfer", a long narrow piece of paper which had been punched by the conductor. At days end I would search through the gutters for a properly punched transfer that I could use on the little Yellow car at 1st. and Hill. If I couldn't find a transfer acceptable for the little "I" car, I would walk the long walk through the 2nd Street tunnel to my home at 134 N. Bixel where mother would have maybe a peanut butter sandwich, maybe some beans, sometimes soup and whatever else she could scrounge up for my dinner.  I would listen to the radio for a short time, study, then next day up and over the several hills to Central Jr. High at 400 N. Hill St.. the next morning.

 

I have four grown children, several grandchilkdren and sometimes I will tell them parts of the above story.  Soon I see their eyes begin to wonder elsewhere so I shorten my story and lapse into memories of long ago. 

[Lisa's Email]

Hello

Thank you for sharing these wonderful memories with us.

Lisa

Sent from my iPhone

[Robert B. Powers Jr.]

I used to explore downtown L.A. in the mid forties to the early fifties...many of those "landmarks" are, of course, long gone.  We lived on 106th Street between San Pedro and Avalon...spent many wonderful weekends riding the "red car" to downtown and back.  I really enjoy your memories of downtown and the area where you sold your newspapers...thanks for sharing.
 

---

Subject: Re: Stairs like the fremont hotel FOUND ON A POOR CHOICE/ON BUNKER HILL (WEBSITE CREDIT)

From: tickle...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 06:43:12 -0700
To: offbun...@googlegroups.com

[Michael Chean]

Wow, it would be great if we could find some interior pictures of this temple