Re: ODSP Complaints

[Peter J]

I can't say anything much about the, "what about you?" back and forth with your worker. Without a recording or witness it's very difficult to put it in context. It's impossible to know the worker's true intent or meaning here.

As far as setting up your new residence, I think your worker is correct here. It's not his or her responsibility to do the paperwork for you. If your landlord requires a statement from ODSP with particular information they need then your worker could probably do that for you, but the actual leasing process is up to you. I've never heard of a worker doing that. It's really not their job.

Your worker is also right in that ODSP does not provide last month's rent. Your usual monthly shelter allowance will go to your new residence as the first month's rent but the last month's is up to you. Also, that first month's will only be paid to your new landlord when you normally get your monthly deposit, which is only a few days before you would actually move in. This can be a problem with some landlords because they want both months paid up full in a lump sum when you sign your lease, which can be a month or so before you would actually move in. This can be a problem for some people on ODSP, too.

[Hope]

Wow.  Sorry but I laughed a little reading your post.  Sounds like she had a little crack with her coffee a la Rob Ford style.  She's Fording it.

Complaining.....see that may get you into trouble.  You've got to really watch what you say now with the economy and everything being so monitored and structured and falling apart.

You could call her supervisor but of course they'll find out it's you.

I know it was hard to hear and go through but you may just have to live with it.  You were targetted and treated unfairly because of your illness and/or social standing. 

ODSP does only pay one month of rent and there is no moving allowance anymore.  I don't know how anyone can afford a move.

Just try to be tougher about it though it was not pleasant at all.

Melanie

[Hope]

Wow.  Sorry but I laughed a little reading your post.  In fact, I truly can't stop laughing.  Sorry.  It sounds like she had a little crack with her coffee a la Rob Ford style.  She's Fording it.

Complaining.....see that may get you into trouble.  You've got to really watch what you say now with the economy and everything being so monitored and structured and falling apart.  We're on the verge of a Depression in Ontario thanks to the Liberals.

You could call her supervisor but of course they'll find out it's you.

I know it was hard to hear and go through but you may just have to live with it.  You were targetted and treated unfairly because of your illness and/or social standing. 

ODSP does only pay one month of rent and there is no moving allowance anymore.  I don't know how anyone can afford a move.

Just try to be tougher about it though it was not pleasant at all.  The less you go in to the office, the better. 

Melanie

[Hope]

Holy cow, it sounds like to me SHE should be on ODSP.  Was she a puppet?  Did she lose all her other words?  My God, that made me laugh.

But don't complain because you'll stir things up. 

Melanie

[sue dube]

they dont pay last months rent does anybody no of a good family lawyer iam trying to get my grandaughter out of cas my daughters going to court to try to get her they want to adopted the baby out i have the 2 sisters to this baby so yap iam a grandmother doing it all over agian but i love them my problem is i cant get a lawyer for leagal aid because i have to be a party. and last week a judge said no to me  so iam going back agian for other judge to here it i cant get no were with out a lawyer can anybody give me some help out here

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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 13:40:43 -0800
From: cri...@gmail.com
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [odspfireside: 51893 ] ODSP Complaints

Does anyone know how to complain about a worker to odsp? I went to my worker today to drop off a rental application and other stuff. She said why are you moving to this place I said because my parents are crazy and she said "what about you?" .. I said what about me? She said "you said your parents are crazy, so what about you?" I said what about me? She kept repeating the same line and this went on for a little she would keep saying "you said your parents are crazy and I say what about you?"

Then I told her that I went to the rental office of this place and they told me since I am on odsp my worker has to talk to the head office and everything is sorted out through the worker and head office so I handed her the rental application and the number for head office. She kept saying "no I don't do this" I said why not? She couldn't tell me but she kept saying "no I don't do this". I then told her that the office said they have to talk to the social worker to verify the income and everything else and you can fax the rental application and first and last month rent. She said "no I don't do that you have to do this" I said they said they have to talk to the worker to sort everything out. She finally said ok I will see what I can do. I regret being nice to her at the end... and feel bad.. she was a total bitch and I shouldn't have been nice to her at the end. She said can you manage this rent and I told her I have to. She said "what is wrong with your parents?" and I said they are not nice and it affects my health so I have to manage somehow. She said "you keep saying that but when it comes to it...."

She also said that odsp only pays the first month not last month. Is this true? Can anyone confirm?

Also is there someone I can complain about this incident and other incidents before.

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[Justice4ODSP]

This is not the first time this has happened. I would say you have a valid human rights case on your hands. See: http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/right-home-report-consultation-human-rights-and-rental-housing-ontario/housing-discrimination-and-individual

I would also complain to the Regional Director for your area. Their names can often be found with a Google search or maybe another person in this forum can help.

Justice4odsp

On Mar 5, 2014, at 4:40 PM, netx <cri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know how to complain about a worker to odsp? I went to my worker today to drop off a rental application and other stuff. She said why are you moving to this place I said because my parents are crazy and she said "what about you?" .. I said what about me? She said "you said your parents are crazy, so what about you?" I said what about me? She kept repeating the same line and this went on for a little she would keep saying "you said your parents are crazy and I say what about you?"....

.... Also is there someone I can complain about this incident and other incidents before.

[ROBERT ALDRED]

If I understand this new approach by ODSP it is to make certain people make it impossible to move your
furniture assuming you have any and to make certain it is as hard as possible for people to get a new
place to live. Interesting. And some people thinks this government works for us. Amazing.

On Thu 06/03/14 1:26 PM , Hope melani...@yahoo.ca sent:
> Wow. Sorry but I laughed a little reading your post. Sounds like she

> had a little crack with her coffee a la Rob Ford style. She's Fording
> it.
>
> Complaining.....see that may get you into trouble. You've got to
> really watch what you say now with the economy and everything being
> so monitored and structured and falling apart.
>

> You could call her supervisor but of course they'll find out it's
> you.
>
> I know it was hard to hear and go through but you may just have to
> live with it. You were targetted and treated unfairly because of
> your illness and/or social standing.
> ODSP does only pay one month of rent and there is no moving allowance
> anymore. I don't know how anyone can afford a move.
>
> Just try to be tougher about it though it was not pleasant at all.
>

> Melanie

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[Peter J]

I followed your link. I see in no way how this is a human rights issue.

Sincerely, could you explain this to me?

[benjer weigl]

Here this link should help   http://www.infogo.gov.on.ca/infogo/office.do?actionType=servicedirectory&infoType=service&unitId=UNT0032909&locale=en       remember were all in this together.

ive gone through simlar all the way to the social benefits tribunal and found that when I say ill be making a ontario human rights code challenge, they tend to leave you alone so far anyway

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Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 51900 ] ODSP Complaints
From: justic...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 17:21:32 -0500
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

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[Ron Payne]

On 9 March 2014 11:02, ROBERT ALDRED <chrys...@primus.ca> wrote:

If I understand this new approach by ODSP it is to make certain people make it impossible to move your
furniture assuming you have any and to make certain it is as hard as possible for people to get a new
place to live.   Interesting.   And some people thinks this government works for us.  Amazing.

OK Robert you have stated the obvious here. Can anyone state the reality on this subject?

[Peter J]

I see in no way that this has anything to do with human rights. Again, could you explain this to me rigorously. I'm sincerely interested because I may be facing the same situation in the near future. Please just don't just quote a chapter and verse, explain it so I can do the same in a tribunal, too.

Thank you for all your effort.

[Justice4odsp]

Peter,

Looking at the subject line and then the link, what might have happened is I accidentally replied to the wrong thread.

There was a problem expressed about someone on ODSP being denied housing, or overly investigated regarding their perceived ability to pay (I can't remember which), and this reply was related to that. This opening paragraph on that link is what caught my eye.

This section discusses the most significant rental housing issues affecting individual tenants and housing providers. Many of the experiences of discrimination and harassment, tenant screening and accommodation are intrinsically linked to the systemic elements discussed in section 5. For example, the individual barriers to housing experienced by tenants in receipt of social assistance are, in many cases, linked to the broader societal issues of inadequate income levels and poverty. However, this section focuses attention on the human interactions, actions and inactions that are at the heart of human rights in rental housing.

This section discusses the most significant rental housing issues affecting individual tenants and housing providers. Many of the experiences of discrimination and harassment, tenant screening and accommodation are intrinsically linked to the systemic elements discussed in section 5. For example, the individual barriers to housing experienced by tenants in receipt of social assistance are, in many cases, linked to the broader societal issues of inadequate income levels and poverty. However, this section focuses attention on the human interactions, actions and inactions that are at the heart of human rights in rental housing. - See more at: http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/right-home-report-consultation-human-rights-and-rental-housing-ontario/housing-discrimination-and-individual#sthash.zwegRI1e.dpuf

I didn't read the whole thing when I shared the link. I just remembered the news item.

To help clarify things a little better, I looked a little deeper. The full report on the OHRC's web site is quite long so I looked up the news article I remembered, which will summarize things a little better. Here is the link: http://www.thestar.com/life/homes/2011/07/01/landlords_warned_not_to_discriminate_in_rental_ads.html

What the Commission was saying was, landlords have to be really careful when they're over scrutinizing ones ability to pay and denying them without giving them (the ODSP recipient) a chance to prove they can do what they say they can do (pay).

I admit this decision can be problematic as well, especially for a landlord who couldn't properly protect themselves in advance (as sometimes happens). However, some people ARE able to manage and this link basically says, don't prejudge.

I don't know the whole story of the individual who posted, so I thought it would help if the person was fully informed on what the laws are and, if necessary, are better able to protect themselves accordingly. 

I'm sorry if I caused added confusion.

justice4odsp

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[Peter J]

Justice,

Thank you so much for replying the way you did. It's awesomely helpful.

Thanks again.

[Justice4odsp]

Hi Ron,

Here are some facts (the reality you asked for) from Kingston about how the money was redistributed. This link takes you to the report for Kingston City Council. 
https://www.cityofkingston.ca/documents/10180/138034/COU_A0613-13081.pdf/f6f1b6d9-d24e-4c8b-b769-5fb65b4b28ab

Here is one quote about how Kingston chooses to spend it:

Excluded Goods and Services:
The following items previously funded as discretionary benefits will no longer be within the scope of eligible items: All residency related items including: utility hook ups and arrears, rent arrears, 1st and or last month rent, moving costs, storage fees, home repairs, telephone/internet hook up, replacement furnishing, household items; these items are detailed within Exhibit D, the recommended New Residency Support Benefit Vocational Training and OSAP application & deferral fees (in excess of Employment related benefit funding) Fees cancelled or missed appointments, including medical and dental appointments All previously “paid for” goods and services for any of the recognized eligible items All previously rendered goods and services for any eligible items (with the exception of emergency dental treatments where benefit entitlement exists and the work was completed within the previous 30 day period).

If you read the rest of the document you will learn more about how the government said the funds could be spent. 

justice4odsp

[Elise Jardan]

Yes, the community start up benefit was cancelled but you can still get support on a contingency basis. I asked my worker directly about the impact of the cancelled CSUMB and she was very clear that there is alternate funding available in areas to help people with their moving and residency expenses. It's just not all under an umbrella CSUMB fund any longer. I'm just repeating what she told me here so it may be worthwhile to still ask if you are in need.

E.

[Bill Higgs]

Depends on your area, some municipalites have no funding, some have minimal and other have a budget for it, so that when it runs out for the year its out.

You need to check with your municipalites to find out whats and how much is available.

 

Bill

[Rob S]

according to what i was told, it was NOT canceled, it is now done through OW

you apply through your worker who forwards the request to OW

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[Elise Jardan]

Such doubts. Much questions. So confused. Very wondering.

[abrowne]

CSUMB was cancelled.  The funding previously available was cut in half (so there is only

half the funding that was previously available) and put under the municipalities to do with

as they wish.  They just have to use it for the housing envelope.  They do not have to use

it for CSUMB, although some municipalities still do.  They do not have to serve everyone,

as many municipalities are only serving OW clients, not ODSP.  They also can give or not

give money to you solely at the discretion of the worker or fund manager and there is no

appeal if you are denied.

If you live in the wrong city or the wrong region, it is tough luck for you.

Angela

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[Ron Payne]

In Hamilton they only fund ODSP and not OW.

[Justice4odsp]

And in Kingston they fund OW and people working for a low income, NOT people on ODSP.

Interesting.

justice4odsp

[Ron Payne]

On 23 March 2014 15:30, Justice4odsp <justic...@gmail.com> wrote:

And in Kingston they fund OW and people working for a low income, NOT people on ODSP.

Interesting.

justice4odsp

On 23/03/2014 2:57 PM, Ron Payne wrote:

In Hamilton they only fund ODSP and not OW.

Hey different legal opinions in different municipalities..

The question is could this practice be seen as discrimination.

[chrys...@primus.ca]

So we now see the results of the end of provincial control. An arbitrary distribution of programs
depending upon the whims of the local Boss Hogs. I so cant wait to see the wonderful progressive
outcomes of the merging of Workfare and ODSP.

On Sun 23/03/14 7:46 PM , Ron Payne hamiltonsoth...@gmail.com sent:

> On 23 March 2014 15:30, Justice4odsp wrote:
> And in Kingston they fund OW and people working for a low income,
> NOT people on ODSP.
> Interesting.
> justice4odsp
> On 23/03/2014 2:57 PM, Ron Payne wrote:
> In Hamilton they only fund ODSP and not OW.
> Hey different legal opinions in different municipalities..
> The question is could this practice be seen as discrimination.

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[chrys...@primus.ca]

[welfarel...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 25 March 2014 00:21:22 UTC-4, Glenn wrote:

So we now see the results of the end of provincial control.   An arbitrary distribution of programs
depending upon the whims of the local Boss Hogs.  I so cant wait to see the wonderful progressive
outcomes of the merging of Workfare and ODSP.

Bingo buddy.

The Conservatives want it.
The Liberals like it.

When and or if the merger happens, it's going to be very very bad news for the disabled here in Ontario.

I am not a lawyer or a paralegal nor do I practice law. I have had no legal training, just 40 years of representing people with problems. I only fix mistakes that lawyers and paralegals make or to give information that they are not aware of.

 Ron Payne
Welfare Legal
Hamilton, Ontario
Email welfarel...@hotmail.com

Blog http://welfarelegal.blogspot.ca/

[browne...@yahoo.com]

Unfortunately one cannot fight this as an anti discriminatory case.  These things are discretionary and are up to the municipality.  Cannot be appealed.  Publicity is your only way. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Justice4odsp]

Ron,

You hit the nail on the head. It is discrimination.

Human Rights is involved in at least one of these sorts of things. Still, more needs to be done. Worse, it's a lot of work when one can't get a lawyer to help fix the problem.

justice4odsp

[Ron Payne]

On 9 March 2014 21:30, Justice4odsp <justic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ron,

Here are some facts (the reality you asked for) from Kingston about how the money was redistributed. This link takes you to the report for Kingston City Council. 
https://www.cityofkingston.ca/documents/10180/138034/COU_A0613-13081.pdf/f6f1b6d9-d24e-4c8b-b769-5fb65b4b28ab

We can all sleep better now.

The City of Hamilton received $7,808,404 from The Ministry of Community and Social Services (MCSS) for Ontario Works Employment Assistance and $8, 902,221 for Cost of Administration.

[Bill Higgs]

It is my understanding that in London the fund was handed over to the Sally Ann for administering, Wonder how much the Sally Ann is getting paid for thier service???

 

Bill

 

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[ROBERT ALDRED]

That is privatization. Here we go to a new and improved world of private organizations taking a
percentage off the top to help us have more services. Or so some would have us believe.

On Tue 25/03/14 2:54 PM , "Bill Higgs" bill...@xplornet.com sent:

> It is my understanding that in London the fund was handed over
> to the Sally Ann for administering, Wonder how much the Sally Ann is

> getting paid for thier service??? Bill ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE
> ----- FROM: Ron Payne TO: ODSP Fireside SENT: Tuesday, March 25,
> 2014 1:36 AM SUBJECT: Re: [odspfireside: 51962 ] Re: ODSP
> Complaints

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[abrowne]

Bill,

This is why there are problems with this outsourcing.  Sally Ann has absolutely

no legal liability for privacy issues if your personal information runs askew.

They also are given discretionary powers over benefits to people and this will

start to depend on the training and skills of the staff delivering the program.  

Many people in these outside organizations are not trained in these ways and 

may not know how to set their personal biases aside to actually deliver a program.

At least if your city released information about you to somebody, you have legal

grounds to seek monetary damages and the city staff responsible can face 

serious consequences.  Not so with charities, other than if you are a donor or

a sponsor or are marketing the non-profit to others for the purpose of fundraising.

Angela

[Bloggy.Deb]

Angela,

Somehow I missed the original post, can someone give me the précis as to what is going on.

As agencies in T.O. are going through huge upheaval, not s good time to be employed in my field, not at all.

Deb

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