ODSP and Injury Settlement Awards

[Hurting]

First post so a bit of background on me and my situation...

Ok I suffered a serious spinal injury a few years ago in a slip and fall which resulted in me having a discectomy and spinal fusion.  I was in hospital for 6 weeks learning to walk again.  Got out and was off work for 18 months then started trying to go back and try working but it hasn't worked out as I spent the last 18 months going from job to job.  Starting one then being forced to leave after a month or two die to the extreme pain.  I put off trying to get ODSP and only took medication when I couldn't take it any more.  

My situation has now gotten tot he point where I am unable to work at present time and unable to do housework or walk far, lift anything over 5lbs and it's painful to get out of bed.  Needless to say I had to move from my apartment and into renting a room and going on OW.  OW suggested I apply to ODSP, my worker said I should be on ODSP, so she is supportive it would seem.

I recently went to my Doctor and told him my situation and he is very supportive of me going on ODSP and has started me on Arthrotec and Gabbapentin, did an xray(after reviewing xray he booked me for another MRI), referred me to a pain clinic, filled out my disabled parking permit, is going to fill out my ODSP application and will try to get me the DTC.  I cannot ask for anything more.  I brought him a typed out 2 pages that lists all my symptoms, the daily activities I have trouble with, the things I have tried, etc.   he said that he doesn't want to get me on opiates right away and wants to exhaust other possibilities before going that route which is good I think.  I'm in no hurry to get on opiates, I just want relief whatever form that takes.

I am worried about getting ODSP as I was turned down for CPP when I tried to get that 3 years ago.  So it's something I constantly worry about everyday.  Everyone I know keeps telling me that I should get it but that doesn't keep me from worrying about it constantly.  I read this and everything I can find on ODSP everyday.  My application will include my back problems as well as documented mental health issues as I have read on here to include everything that I have documentation for from a medical professional.  It's ASPD and ADHD.

  

Now to the point.

I have an ongoing lawsuit going on that should be resolved fairly soon(within 6-12 months).  I will be getting a decent return.  I have read conflicting things about what settlement funds are income, what they can take and what they cannot. 

From what I understand any award $100,000 and under that is for pain and suffering, medical and housekeeping are all exempt from being included as income as long as  the total is below $100k.  

Then I read that is it is over $100k it's fine as long as I buy a house and car(for example) to bring the total to below $100k before year end or whenever I have to report my income to ODSP.  Will OW/ODSP still have to be paid back if it's below $100k in the allowable slots?

I further read that ODSP can seize my bank account and take all my tax returns if I owe them money and don't pay them pack.

I also heard that OW/ODSP will take money they deem to be owed directly from the cheque at my lawyers office before I get it.  I heard that i will have to repay and OW/ODSP money I have received from the time my lawsuit started until the time I get a monetary damage award. 

If anyone can help me I would greatly appreciate it.  I;ve been reading this forum intensely for a couple weeks.  Doing searches everyday in this forum to read.  I think I have a grasp on it and maybe I just need clarification.

Thanks a lot.

     -Hurting in Peel

  

[Hurting]

Also I'd like to add that I read that an amount over the allowable $100k is ok if it's in a structured settlement which is, from what I understand, not considered income.  So I could get $$1200 a month from a McKellar or Henderson fund and $1066 from ODSP per month?  Am I understanding this correct?

[jbkeh]

There are several Directives that touch on this. Perhaps one could start with Dir 4.6:

http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/programs/social/directives/directives/ODSPDirectives/income_support/4_6_ODSP_ISDirectives.aspx

In vague generalities....

1. Compensation awards are NET (after everybody takes their slice) amounts.

2. Compensation awards are broken into three groups -
  a) Pain and suffering
  b) Medical expenses
  c) Loss of income

Awards for loss of income are income in the month received and an asset thereafter (until consumed). Here you would likely want to take this type of award as a lump sum and invest it in an exempt asset, such as a house/condo (ODSP must give you six months to achieve this, a full year if you are buying a house/condo.)

Awards for pain and suffering are exempt up to $100,000.

Awards for medical expenses (past and future) are exempt up to the difference between $100,000 and the amount awarded for pain and suffering (i.e. the combined award for pain and suffering and medical expenses is exempt up to $100,000).

If the award for medical expenses will push the combined medical/pain award above $100,000, the medical expenses must be documented EVERY YEAR to the satisfaction of ODSP.

Structured settlements have an "exemption lifetime" calculated as "Total Award / Monthly Payment" and if that "exemption lifetime" falls short of the time you turn 65(67) and switch to OAS, there will come a day when the monthly payment from the structured settlement suddenly ceases to be exempt. In this case, it is likely preferable to prorate the exemption over the full time you will be on ODSP, giving a constant monthly deduction from your ODSP for the full time until you each 65(67). See the example in Dir 4.6.

When you start ODSP, you must advise them of any pending income (including lawsuits) and they will require you to 'assign' the potential award to ODSP for distribution, including OW (i.e. they get first crack at it). OW/ODSP will recalculate what they should have paid you in light of the non-exempt award amount and reclaim any excess.

(Don't forget Ontario ADP for mobility aids, with ODSP picking up the co-pay (walkers, rollators, scooters) and Peel Regional Transhelp.)

[Hurting]

Yeah, I read 4.6 about 20 times or more and it's very hard to understand with all the legalese in there. 

I've also read this whole thread a few times which has some info in it.  https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/odspfireside/legal$20clinic/odspfireside/wBanqr19NxY/BQMgBHJp-GIJ

Thanks for explaining it out for me.  I don't know why they make it so hard to understand.

I really need to look up Ontario ADP.  I've never heard of them before.  I have to research them.  Thanks for that.

Can OW/ODSP make up any amount they want to take from me?  I am afraid that they will take my whole settlement.  I would rather live on the streets then let that happen.  

Can they seize my bank accounts that I placed the money in?  

What if I do not tell them of  the lawsuit and expected outcome.  I don't the idea of people being able to put their hands into my pocket without my knowledge and take however much money they want.

So the $100k that is exempt, I can have it sitting in cash in a bank account if I wanted to?  Or do I have to use a financial instrument because of the $5k max rule?   So many rules with ODSP.

I have no problem repaying them because that money will be part of the claim against the defendants, so they'll be paying it.  It'll only be a few months if I accepted for ODSP at the application stage without getting denied.

I'm really nervous about everything.  I keep thinking that everything will go against me, as is my luck in life it would seem.

This has been a great help thus far jbkeh.  I thoroughly appreciate you taking the time out to help me.

[jbkeh]

When the suit is settled, OW/ODSP will recalculate how much they should have given you in light of the settlement you receive (prorated monthly from the time of the accident) for 'lost wages' (any amounts for 'medical expenses' and/or 'pain and suffering' should be exempt). Any amount they had paid in excess of this recalculated value must be paid back, but, they still have to give you six months (or a year if you will be buying a 'principal residence') to use this 'lost wages' money to purchase exempt assets (as delineated in that other thread), which should avoid any loss.

ODSP cannot 'seize' your bank accounts without a court order after they had obtained a judgement against you. Why would they bother? They'll simply suspend your OW/ODSP.

Please don't play games with OW/ODSP - at best, you will only pointlessly irritate them and at worst, you could face criminal charges.

Yes, you can keep the exempt portion of the settlement in the bank (probably not the wisest form of investment), BUT TAKE CARE TO USE A SEPARATE ACCOUNT. If you 'blend' your ODSP  payments (or anything else) with the settlement monies, you cannot 'prove' a dollar withdrawn was from your ODSP money or your settlement, so ODSP will 'assume' it was withdrawn from the settlement and you are accumulating the ODSP money (a non-exempt liquid asset) and you will quickly be over your asset limit. A separate account provides a simple audit trail for the settlement monies.

[VICKY SWERBRICK]

i get adp every six months to help me pay for my medical supploes and when the money is gone .and if my suppleis run out odsp covers the rest until i get anthor chegue i dont know what your health issue is you can get up to 400.00 to 600.00 or more i think every 6 months.
 

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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:55:54 -0700
From: donbd...@gmail.com
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [odspfireside: 48430 ] Re: ODSP and Injury Settlement Awards

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[Hurting]

I wasn't on OW from the time my accident happened which is 4 years ago.  First I was on EI + sickness benefits, then applied to CPP and got denied, appealed got denied.  Was living with wife at time and she made too much money so I had nothing, she was supporting both of us.  Then I started working again took a lay off was on EI until exhausted recently then I went on OW just last month and now applied for ODSP.  

So I am guessing that I will only have to pay back the OW I have taken and not from the time of my accident, right?

OK, good news about them not being able to just seize my bank accounts on a whim.  Or else I would convert it all to gold and silver and bury it somewhere.

No, I am going to be truthful with OW/ODSP, I have nothing to gain by being deceitful.  it's not in my nature anyhow.  I just hate the idea of them having control over my money before I get it.

Good advice on separate account, I would do that for sure.  I doubt I would leave it in a savings account earning 1% interest when it could be earning 3 or 4%.  Will  the interest earned on the exempt 100k be classified as income?  With the 100k do I have to have a structured settlement or can I have it invested in another account?

This is all very complicated.

[Hurting]

Yes,  will have to look into ADP if/when I get accepted.  My injury is a spinal injury.  I had a discectomy and spinal fusion to 3 discs in my neck.  I also have stenosis and DDD elsewhere in my spine.  

I worked as long as I could doing jobs with little to no lifting but I cannot take the pain any longer.  Some times it's hard to get out of bed due to the pain.  I didn't want to be on a lot of meds as I don't want to become dependent on them but the pain now is too great.  I am in my mid thrities and tried to be as tough as possible for as long as possible.

Recently my doctor started me on Artrotec and gabapentin and is referring me to a pain clinic.  He xrayed me and upon looking at my xrays he's sending me for an MRI, which has me worried.  Of course nothing is said over the phone but I have another appointment with him soon.

[Chris Carey]

Hurt,

Its important to keep in mind none of us has all the answers.

Jbehk'er uses a particular tone and language to portray superiority. This attempt at subjugation presumably helps him mitigate the unwanted psychological effects of feeling disempowered. None of us wants to be in the circumstances we're in. But, that does not justify a disrespectful attitude.

Remember, whatever you're told by the users of this site has the potential to be thickly layered in interpretative thought and opinion, even when it comes to lived experience.

ODSP outcomes may vary based on any number of situational variables. Trying to predict individual outcomes is therefore very difficult, especially on complicated matters. When it comes to navigating the social assistance system there is always a great deal of uncertainty and individual outcomes can vary widely. Its important we all keep this in mind.


Chris

[Chris Carey]

I am glad to hear you weren't offended. Some have been mislead by subjective experience presented as objective fact. But, even MD's have their evaluations subjected to a second or third opinion.


Chris

[Chris Carey]

Well, Hurt,

It sounds as though you're very determined and it appears to me that you have access to all the procedural resources you'll.

Chris

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From: Hurting <donbd...@gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:29:12 -0700 (PDT)

To: <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: <chris...@rocketmail.com>

Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 48437 ] Re: ODSP and Injury Settlement Awards

I am searching for information and that's what I have received.  Any input is welcome, even anecdotal.  That said I have 4-5 doctors opinions all stating the same facts but in the off chance I'm denied I have one of the top firms in Toronto to represent me in an appeal so I'm not worried.  Sooner or later I will get accepted.  The longer they make me wait the more retroactive money I will get.

[abrowne]

You can add sheets of paper to it.

Angela

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From: Hurting <donbd...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:27:33 PM
Subject: [odspfireside: 48458 ] Re: ODSP and Injury Settlement Awards

Also, does anyone know if it's ok to include separate sheets of paper with the Pink booklet?  Because they don't provide enough room for the last part of the application.  It's very tight.