Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[justice4odsp]

Hi,

This article blows my mind.  I guess there have been some clearly discriminatory ads published recently. Here's a quote from the article:

Ad descriptions that include wording such as “adult building,” “must provide proof of employment” or “No ODSP (Ontario Disability Support Program),” are deemed by the commission as being discriminatory.

Here is the link if you're interested in reading it: http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/realestate/article/1017714--landlords-warned-not-to-discriminate-in-rental-ads

justice4odsp

[Uppity Woman]

Even if they were forced to change their wording, they would still only rent to whoever they wanted. I read a landlord forum, and most of them there will not rent to OW or ODSP recipients. They just don't tell the person why they were not chosen for the apt., they say that the person "does not meet their criteria". Apparently, they do not have to give a reason.   I can't blame them for refusing to rent to us. Many of them have been burned by people on assistance, and they cannot garnish our cheques to recover their losses.   Uppity    -------Original Message-------

[tantrictim]

Agreed, and the late rent payments to landlords (who are considered vendors) this month due to the postal strike, did not help.  I would urge all of you to sign up for socially assisted housing
in your region as they are bound by the Ontario Human Rights Code and cannot discriminate in this way, as are regular landlords, but as stated above, they have a number of ways to deny housing to social assistance recipients.

[abrowne]

"Regular" landlords cannot discriminate either.

 

I would never sign up for social housing in a million years, even

if I can get around the eight year wait where I live.

 

There are ways to find out and to document this discrimination.

Angela

---

From: tantrictim <timbh...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 12:03:56 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37884 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[abrowne]

Uppity,

In a way I can understand that, many of my client landlords *do* rent to

ODSP and OW recipients, but have been burned.  The best people can

offer is to agree to pay direct, though the landlord cannot require this.

 

But keep in mind, in my practice, 80% of those who get evicted have jobs,

but when we enforce they tend to switch employers (such as those that

work for call centres or cleaning companies).

Angela

---

From: Uppity Woman <uppity...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, July 3, 2011 4:15:58 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37882 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[Uppity Woman]

Me either, Angela. I would rather pay the extra to live in market rent housing.   Uppity    -------Original Message-------

[Uppity Woman]

Pay direct is good, but their complaint is that people can stop that at any time, and it has  happened. I know there's nothing guaranteeing that people with jobs will lose them or quit and end up on OW, or get sick and end up on ODSP, but they seem to think having a job and a good credit rating is better than being on assistance, even if we have a good credit rating and excellent references from previous landlords. It's a shame that those who have screwed them give us all a bad name.    BTW, it's not just not paying rent they have had problems with, it's people trashing the place and not cleaning etc.   Uppity    -------Original Message-------

From: abrowne Date: 04/07/2011 2:20:17 PM To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37889 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[tantrictim]

I was not implying that its alright for those in the private rental housing market to discriminate, simply stating that it occurs, just as it does in employment when many private employers do not hire the disabled for all
manner of spurious reasons. However, i do take exception to your statement (below in italics) as i have found that public housing not only tends to be more responsive to the needs of the disabled, but repairs and all
manner of adjustments can be made with one's Regional Housing Officer in case of an emergency, or some financial issue where it becomes difficult to pay the rent and they are much more willing to work out an
arrangement.

[abrowne]

Tantricum,

It is NOT accommodating if you want to work or if your income varies, or if

you have a particularly large family ... once each child leaves home, they

force you -- within sixty days here -- to accept a smaller unit, despite the

complications that are likely to occur in some families where the child that

left suddenly wants to move back home again.

 

Working is not even worth it while living in rent geared to income and any

kind of home based business is prohibited, despite the fact that over 70%

of businesses that grow up started in the home or somebody's garage.

Subsidized housing has a way of squeezing financial incentives out of

anybody that want to "better" themselves.  When I was in RGI in the

early 1980's (when I was first attending post-secondary), I worked and

went to school, but found I lose $1.20 for every $1.00 I earned.  I quit

the subsidy, but not my working ... and that was the only way I was able

to get out of that cycle and eventually own my own home (now).

 

I recommend subsidized housing only to clients who are completely

retired (and will not be returning to work), ODSP/CPP recipients that

are not likely to work at all in the future (usually those whose disabilities

are more severe or whose disabilities will not be accommodated and

as a result, they "cannot" work) or those whose employment is relatively

the same income each month (very difficult in a Wal-Mart economy - when

income differs you have to declare changes in 10 days and your rent can

go way up or way down and makes it difficult to budget).

 

I would rather take my chances, if renting again, with a private landlord.

At least I know I can take them the Tribunal and force them to do repairs

and they can't cry "budget blues" like they do in Niagara and in Toronto,

for their own housing properties.

Angela

---

From: tantrictim <timbh...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 5:09:18 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37898 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

However, i do take exception to your statement (below in italics) as i have found that public housing not only tends to be

[tantrictim]

I have to completely disagree, the draconian rules that you experienced with Public Housing in the 80's no longer exist in most jurisdictions, and the maximum allowable portion they are able to collect for rent is
set at 30% in my Region anyways, the figure may be slightly higher or lower, such that RGI tenants specifically do not have a disincentive not to work for fear that all of their income will be deducted to cover housing.

Secondly, the units are designed for family sizes in mind, so asking a single mother who once had three kids and now lives alone to move out of a three bedroom unit into a bachelor so a deserving family on the waiting list can have adequate housing seems reasonable and is usually done with sixty to ninety days notice, and is much the same situation wherein a building may
become uninhabitable, in which case the onus is  on Regional Housing to provide suitable accomodation.

I think the tone of your position is somewhat negative since you seem to imply that the only type of jobs that ODSP recepients can find are at Walmart, or "McJobs" which typically describe
low skilled, low wage positions, and is a stereotypical view to have of those who are disabled. 

[abrowne]

Tantrictim,

The rules referred to are exactly the same as they are

today.  Nothing changed.  I had three cases in

the 2000's dealing with exactly these things, and

eleven bankers boxes filled with documents on the

Social Housing Reform Act, etc.  If you don't believe

me that the rules are exactly the same, go to the

Metcalf Foundation and read two documents, both

by John Stapleton, one called Why is it so tough to

get ahead? and Zero dollar Linda.  The issues are

2009 and 2011, the very same rules that caused me

to quit social housing, except most people quit their

jobs fearing losing their housing.  The Metcalf

Foundation can be linked at

http://www.metcalffoundation.org and you can easily

search on a database for the publications I just

referred to.  Over the years, I've had clients that tried

to work while living in RGI housing, getting 600%

rent increases, and then when their hours drop, they

could not manage or budget that.  So they usually

had to quit their job.

 

And the moving, they make YOU pay for it.  In my

view, THEY should pay for it if they want you to

move so badly.  The newer units here are about

300 - 400 square feet and somehow they put one

or two bedrooms in them.  I don't know how anyone

can live in that small a space.  Maybe some can,

but I can't, even if I was alone.  They only give so

much for CSUMB and only every two years.  I've

had situations where kids moved out and the

family was forced to move, then the kid moved

back home and now they're overcrowded again.

No other family has to do that.

As for your misunderstanding re Wal-Mart jobs,

that is ALL that is available.  Unless you can be

self-employed like myself in a profession, the

only jobs available whether you are on ODSP or

not are Wal-Mart type jobs ... and Wal-Mart's

hours are irregular and with that and social

housing, your rent will go up and down and it

will be difficult to manage.  There was a proposal

to average earnings over a year, but apparently,

this did not go through.

 

And if there were great jobs out there for all, and

these stupid rules did not exist as you say, why

is the wait list so long and almost zero turnover

in some communities?  Because people do NOT

move out of social housing!  That is not reflective

of the people that live there, but they feel trapped.

I know this as many of my husband's cousins and 

other relatives are still in subsidized housing and

they were when I met him in 1982. Their kids are

too.  It was unusual even then to choose the job

over subsidy, but I did that .... because I knew what

was coming.

 

I don't know your situation, but many people on

ODSP cannot work, so it may be okay for them to

choose this option.  But please do not tell me what

is good for people like ME (or others on here).

Angela

---

From: tantrictim <timbh...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 12:37:16 AM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37912 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[tantrictim]

Angela:
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do, and in point of fact, the rules may not have changed, but the options of public subsidies for private housing have increased at least in my region, and i will provide a link below so you can see that there are many more choices now than simply waiting years and upon years for a social housing unit.  Secondly, you claim that many people do not move out of housing because they feel "trapped" in your social work parlance, when in fact, i contend they have weighed the opportunity costs of moving into the private sector, and decided that they would rather stay in social housing because of the ghetto-like conditions that exist in the private sector.

I am not an advocate of public housing by any means and my experience with it has been mixed, but when i look at my private sector options, i would be paying much more than the maximum
shelter allowance for an equivalent unit, and the reason i chose to leave was because of my drug and alcohol addicted neighbours, and despite repeated complaints, the Social Housing officer
aka the Property Manager told me they were unable to evict these people due to advocates like you who encourage this sort of destructive behaviour and make those of us who are trying to get work and move ahead despite being on ODSP very difficult.

P.S. try to make a cogent argument for your position based on facts and try not to resort to ad-homenium arguments against fellow forum members

http://socialservices.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/housing/affordablecommunityhousing.asp

[Mr. Smith]

It's the self appointed "advocates" walking around with their noses so
high that can cause trouble for the rest of us real people who have to
deal with the real world.

>... the Property Manager told me they were unable to evict these people due

[Uppity Woman]

Why should a single person have to live in a bachelor? One more reason I will never go into RGI.   Uppity      -------Original Message-------

From: tantrictim Date: 07/05/11 08:51:18 To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37912 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[abrowne]

Tantricum,

My arguments are based on facts; I gave you references.

 

You might read them first before you dismiss other people's arguments.

 

As for the expense of private housing, I am in favour of a portable housing

subsidy that you can use wherever you want and is based on average

market rent.  No stupid rules apart from income, such as the way the

National Child Benefit is based.

 

As for my knowledge of people not moving out, I have almost 20 years

of experience in working with people and 14 years in private practice.

That is what people tell me.

Angela

---

From: tantrictim <timbh...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 12:34:25 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37914 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[tantrictim]

Mr. Smith:
Since when was having a WORK ETHIC arrogant and condescending, and why do drug addicts and alcoholics go running to their social workers anytime someone complains about their behaviour, is it
arrogant to want to be able to go to sleep at a decent hour so you can get up for work the next day. 

I contend the only advocates on this discussion thread are you and Ms. Browne who continually provide excuses for these people due to their disability, its not arrogant to say that you have to live by the same standards as the rest of the able bodied society and stop using one's disability as a crutch for moral decay.

Angela:
Yes, your arguments are based in fact, but they are selective, and i could provide you with a whole host of studies that indicate the efficacy of social housing,  however its your notion that the free market has the ability to sort out the shortcomings of the public system which i find ludicrous, and i do agree that a system based on subsidies, and partnerships with private landlords is probably the best solution to the current shelter crisis for those
on ODSP and other forms of social assistance.

[abrowne]

Tantricum,

Not everybody wants to stay on social assistance.  I wanted to get an

education and I was being forced out in a way that would have prevented

me from continuing in school or even trying self-employment.  These rules

are exactly the same as they were when I was dealing with them.  I just

got off the phone with somebody who is dealing exactly with what I

was dealing with in the 1980s!!! The difference now is the old "Ontario

Housing" rules have moved to cover ALL social housing including

subsidized housing in private apartment blocks.

 

As I said, I am basing things on facts, research and policy analysis.

Read Zero Dollar Linda, which reads about how many people end up

having to quit their jobs because of the mess up between ODSP and

social housing.  Linda, the subject of this report, is certainly not alone.

I have met dozens of Lindas here, and there will be hundreds and

hundreds more until these rules are changed (which I doubt they will,

as the seriousness with respect to how much this province wants to

reduce or eliminate poverty is questionable).

 

But if you are not able to work, then it should not be a problem.  The free

market augmented by portable housing subsidies that can be taken

anywhere and are based on "market rent" for your area (using CMHC

stats, as they are published annually) would ensure you can find a

reasonable unit at market rent.  No, you won't get a mansion, but you

will find something on the market.  If somebody needs "supportive

housing", then this "support" element should be separate from the

housing.  Wineman, et al had numerous studies on how to do this,

as well as some other recent studies. 

 

I have a very large office library as well as home library FILLED with

tons of studies, if you ever want them.

Angela

---

From: tantrictim <timbh...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 3:56:52 PM
Subject: [odspfireside: 37918 ] Re: Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[Darlene]

I would respectfully suggest that the job market is not QUITE as
terrible as you make it out Angela.

I took part in the WESP program (workplace essential skills program)
funded by the CCRW (Canadian Council on Rehabilitation and Work) and
many of my classmates are now employed in meaningful work.

I spent years on a waiting list for RGI housing, and I know that I
only selected buildings which were part of the old Cityhome as the old
Ontario Housing properties tended to be older and not as well
maintained, yet somehow I wound up stuck in an Ontario Housing
property and had nothing but trouble there. Now I can't even get hold
of anybody at Housing Connections to get back onto a waiting list!

My biggest complaint is the various subsidies the government has come
up with which are only available to the WORKING poor. My rent takes
80% of my ODSP benefit, which is obscene. Yet I have a bargain in this
unit, compared to other places around Toronto.

> From: tantrictim <timbhau...@gmail.com>

[tantrictim]

Angela
Fair enough, I have not done much research on economic issues since my school days at the University of Guelph, which ironically was in the 1980's, when the NeoCons were telling everyone about
their "Trickle Down" Theory, apparently the only thing that trickles down from rich folks is pi$$.

I would like to take a look at some of your studies and if you could post the links online, that would be appreciated.

FYI...i live at home now with my retired parents and have been offered three units by Regional Housing, all of which i declined since they were "crack shacks" and i did not want to
return to the old problems i had while staying at the first unit i was offered, which was, and you might find this amusing as well, above a Homeless Shelter....life is rich with irony!

Best Regards,
Tim B., B.A (Economics)

[abrowne]

Darlene,

THAT is Toronto.  Toronto is a very different world than Niagara,

where I live.  I possess multiple degrees, over a dozen years senior

management experience, etc. before I got ill and lost my driver's

license, and because I don't have that stupid piece of paper, nobody

in Niagara has a decent job to offer.  Haven't had a single job offer

since then.  But I went self-employed given it's the only option I have,

as I don't want to not work.

 

I don't need to learn how to write resumes, how to do interviews, etc.

Maybe some people need this help, but many people don't.  What is

needed is to get employers to stop discriminating against candidates

for various positions, and to accept folks in higher paid jobs where

the candidate has the education/qualifications, etc.  Virtually all the

jobs around here for persons with disabilities are: greenhouse,

Starbucks, janitorial (usually minimum wage or just over), cashier, etc.

 

Same as somebody started this topic about how landlords often

discriminate before they even get applicants "no children", "working

couples", etc., employers put too many things in their job descriptions

that also keep people with disabilities from applying, particularly

around here (e.g. "must have full class G license and vehicle for

daily use, insured for work purposes"; "must be available for all

shifts", etc.) which automatically rules out people who don't drive,

people who require daycare, etc., never mind if the person actually

has the skills to do the job ...

 

You might want to read this article about what happened to the job

market and why many people are having trouble ...

http://metcalffoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/working-better.pdf

 

The typical working person in Niagara who is not as stuck up and stubborn

as I am holds multiple minimum wage jobs.  A girlfriend of mine did until

a few months ago when she had a heart attack and is now losing her home.

That's what happens to people here in Niagara because of the massive

loss in manufacturing and other jobs, with only lower paid jobs to replace them.

 

http://metcalffoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/zero-dollar-linda.pdf

That's the story of Linda Chamberlin, but also an interesting read about how

much money a homeless man has cost the New York State.

 

http://metcalffoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/why-is-it-so-tough-to-get-ahead.pdf

This is how income support, OSAP, subsidized housing and work cannibalize each other

in Ontario - the rules are the very same as what I knew in the early 1980's - which

were probably the same as they were in the early 1950's ;-)

 

Angela

 

---

From: Darlene <darlene...@gmail.com>
To: ODSP Fireside <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 5:27:19 PM
Subject: [odspfireside: 37920 ] Re: Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[abrowne]

Hi,

Thanks Tim, unfortunately the NeoCons are still telling

us how the "trickle down" theory works, except with tax cuts ;-)

Yeah right.  I just posted a couple of links, the ones from

Metcalf in my response to Darlene (e.g. I also included

one on the changing nature of work). 

 

I might look up some others.  I've been totally exhausted

trying to work on a number of issues, as well as the social

assistance reform consultations.

 

Folks on here might want to link to:

http://www.socialassistancereview.ca/

 

to see how this is going, as well as check out some of the

links on poverty free ontario

and http://www.sareview.ca/

 

There is  LOT happening and people who are concerned

about any of this stuff should give their input.  And no, Tim,

nobody is telling you that you should live next to crackheads.

Much of my work is evicting these people, but unfortunately, in

social housing this type of behaviour is too often tolerated.

Angela

---

From: tantrictim <timbh...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 7:32:52 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37922 ] Re: Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[katkit]

As far as the quality of RGI housing, it does greatly vary. Where I
live, we have the usual "slum" we also have 4 and 5 bedroom brand new
townhouses with garages and finished basements, fenced yards in a nice
area of town(really nice owned houses in a subdivision) So it can
really vary and the wait times reflect that. The wait time for the
nice ones is 6 years, the wait time for the "slum" - less than one year

[Judy MacLeod]

Just curious... Now that you've turned down three units don't you go to the bottom of the list and have to start the wait over again?

Judy

----- Original Message -----

From: tantrictim

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:32 PM

Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37922 ] Re: Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

FYI...i live at home now with my retired parents and have been offered three units by Regional Housing, all of which i declined since they were "crack shacks" and i did not want to
return to the old problems i had while staying at the first unit i was offered, which was, and you might find this amusing as well, above a Homeless Shelter....life is rich with irony!

Best Regards,
Tim B., B.A (Economics)

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[Judy MacLeod]

Maybe someone can explain to me why there are "slum" units in RGI housing? The landlord gets market rent for these units - where I live that can be $800 and more per month, plus utilities. We pay our RGI share and social services makes up the rest as I understand it. What I don't get is why would they subsidize these slum units, as no way would these places being the market rates as private rentals. There is no shortage of housing in my town. There is a huge shortage of affordable housing.

Judy

[Dee Findlay]

Hi everyone!  Rumours of my death et cetera... Out of hospital into bed.

Here is my story...

Lived in the same building from 1995 to January 2011 - 16 years, ODSP Detainee for 12 of them

Went to Calgary for bone marrow transplant in December 2010. Estimated time of trip maximum 2 months (bulk of recovery back in Ottawa - donor marrow a good risk (my son)

Murphy's Law,  two rejections,  massive inoperable spinal lesions, respiratory arrest, daughter refers to me as "Vampiric Interloper",  decides to kick me out of their big ass two car six hdtv five bedroom. Vhome (which I probably wouldn't have been too bothered by,  but she refused me even supervised visit. 

So I am suddenly paying big bucks to live in The Crack'n'Ho Hilton near the hospital.

Unable to pay my landlord of sixteen years for February and March because even the most insalubrious establishments charge rent.

No negotiation.  In the space of three days I am homeless, breathless sick sicker sickest.

Now-Former best friend colludes with Property Manager and I (unknowingly until my return)  have no stuff.  I DIDN'T OWE A RED CENT.  These men played the odds that I'd be travelling in the cargo hold.

Sorry,  I tend to overshare.

Fly home ; airport to hospital (some beastly creature stole my WALKER at airport!!  He even waved at me as I gave him the finger; called me an ugly dyke.  He had a point; 95lbs and rather bald...

So, the not so pretty leaving is the hospital... I know I'm homeless but still don't know I'm thing-less... I'm weak with itty bitty O2 sats.

I bet my best friend Please if it's not too much trouble can you get me an apartment?

I knew I would have to rent from the SAME LANDLORDS or end up in a facility (which I soooo wish I'd done - remember,  I still thought I had stuff.

Yep.  Landlord had vacancy 100 miles from my former community and DESPITE 16 yrs of paying my rent promptly and Never throwing poo at Property Cretin I was put through the same paces a stranger would,  demanded FMR and LMR and "WE APPRECIATE YOUR TENURE WITH US BUT WE WON'T EVEN LOOK AT YOUR APPLICATION UNLESS YOU ATTACH A LETTER FROM ODSP DECLARING THEIR INTENT TO PAY YOUR RENT DIRECTLY "

I had no choice.

I had sent at least two dozen "shared accommodation" emails but didn't receive a Single reply.  That was not a confidence booster (jeepers; imagine if I'd included one the 'ugly dyke ' pics :)

So I guess it is what it is.  Those who have taken more - but there's something the soulless corporations ain't got.....

They have no idea that WE are planning,  politicizing,  raising awareness and..... WMAHAWNGTTIA*

* hint: Albert Finney galvanised an apathetic viewership to shout this acronym'Swords from rooftops and opened windows.

WE HAVE SOME OPENED WINDOWS OF OUR OWN; "XP",  Vista,  2000, 7..,
There's no such thing as doing too little or too much.  We must respect our individual boundaries - physical, emotional,  political; mental...

I have told one person and will soon tell another, so let's get this out of the way.

I was rushed to hospital around 3am the night of June 21. I had dialysis and routine tune up,

Then I begged them to look after me for a while because I was planning to end my life.  They treated me like a Mother,  sister.  Daughter.  Friends.

I met some magical people.  Just like here.  But my eyes are closing...

Xxxooo

Finn

On 2011-07-06 12:22 AM, "Judy MacLeod" <jmac...@bell.net> wrote:

Maybe someone can explain to me why there are "slum" units in RGI housing? The landlord gets market rent for these units - where I live that can be $800 and more per month, plus utilities. We pay our RGI share and social services makes up the rest as I understand it. What I don't get is why would they subsidize these slum units, as no way would these places being the market rates as private rentals. There is no shortage of housing in my town. There is a huge shortage of affordable housing.

Judy

----- Original Message -----
From: katkit
To: ODSP Fireside
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 9:29 PM
Su...

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[katkit]

Frankly, that would be mostly the huge repair bills for these places.
I hate to say it but a lot of the time, tenants in the not so nice
area RGIs will not care about the place and trash it or get evicted
for non payment, so lost income. I have seen people let their dogs
piss on the floor, ruin the lawn, punch holes in the walls, not turn
the fan on in the bathroom, leading to mold, not cleaning up spills on
the carpet, the list goes on and on. Generally tenants in the more
"upscale" units in the better areas or in private subsidy buildings do
not take such an approach, they don't trash the place. This leads to
the maintenance problem in the units even worse as it is a cylce, they
can't afford to fix all of the damage and then people cause more
damage

[Denny B.]

Uppity, you sound very "entitled"

To me, it makes perfect sense to have the 3 bedroom
unit fully occupied by a family and not by a single woman.
It also makes perfectly good sense for a single person
to live in a bachelor! What planet are you living on?

 That's the objective of rent GI.

As a single person I would find a bachelor apt. to be a luxury!

Denny B. Ott., Ont., Canada
d_...@hotmail.com

---

Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 13:38:44 -0400
From: uppity...@gmail.com
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37916 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[Shelley Blidner]

Dee, I am exhausted just reading your email let alone having to live it!

My thoughts and prayers go out to you and if there is any justice in the world you will find some rest.

 

Shelley

[corrinna]

The vast majority of bachelor units have no stove, bedroom,

nor adequate living space. I respectfully disagree with you.

I think it not out of the realm of need to have a stove, fridge

and bedroom. We are not cattle herded into stalls waiting for

slaughter. Are we? 

 

 ( to add, it is just as easy for a couple to live

in a bachelor as it is for a single, given they take up the same basic 

space with the exception of a slightly larger sleeping surface, yet they 

are never expected to cram themselves into one )

 

Also, the vast majority of RGI housing run my municipalities

are absolute ghettoes. SOME of the private sector housing is

nice, but always seems to involve people exerting unnecessary

politicking and hierarchical mentality, as it is the only place in

the world they have the influence they seek. Gossip and rumours

thrive in those places like moth to a flame. Gang activity, addiction, 

abuse and yes, poor parenting are rampant in these ghettoes.  This

is not to say these things do not exist elsewhere, but it is most

concentrated in RGI housing simply because you're forcing the grouping

together of all these statistics into a poverty farm. I have seen it first hand,

and I'll pass, thank you.

 

I once lived in a nice private sector unit that was a

mix of owners, renters and RGI units. Great place, great example, rare reality.

I rather like my autonomy, and cannot understand why a person living in poverty

is forced to accept less in exchange for food. How much is my dignity and privacy

worth, a bowl of soup? Ramen noodles in the privacy and comfort of my own little

one bedroom apt in a safe clean building tastes much better than steak in misery

and it's company.

[Uppity Woman]

If expecting that an almost 50 year old should not have to live in a bachelor makes me "entitled" then so be it, it's not a bad thing. Why should I have  to be claustrophobic just because I'm on ODSP? I shouldn't. I should be able to have a one bedroom. I never said I should have a 3 bedroom unit.    If you choose to live in a bachelor, that is your choice.   Uppity     -------Original Message-------

[Uppity Woman]

Amen, Corinna. I will continue to pay the price to have a 2 bedroom apt with my own private fenced in yard with deck that I can go sit outside on, have flowers and a veggie garden etc. Just because I do not have children and am disabled doesn't mean I should have to live in a tiny, cramped place.   You also make a good point about a couple living in a bachelor. It's insane that a couple gets over $250 more for shelter than a single, when they can live in the same housing as a single. If a bachelor is good enough for a single, it's good enough for a couple.   Uppity   -------Original Message-------

From: corrinna Date: 06/07/2011 9:36:56 AM To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37933 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

[Judy MacLeod]

I'm just past 50 and all I'll be able to afford is a room to rent in my area. A bachelor would leave me almost no money for anything else.

To come to this after owning my own home, and having houses versus an apartment all of my life, it's pretty sad and demeaning.

 

Judy

----- Original Message -----

From: Uppity Woman

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 12:10 PM

Subject: RE: [odspfireside: 37934 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups

If expecting that an almost 50 year old should not have to live in a bachelor makes me "entitled" then so be it, it's not a bad thing. Why should I have  to be claustrophobic just because I'm on ODSP? I shouldn't. I should be able to have a one bedroom. I never said I should have a 3 bedroom unit.    If you choose to live in a bachelor, that is your choice.   Uppity

--

[T Spa]

Is it appropriate to offer a heart felt hug on here ?

---

From: jmac...@bell.net
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37937 ] Landlords warned not to discriminate in rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 13:50:36 -0400

[Atb]

Ah, the power we have given the government to exist independent from
society. I'm sorry to everyone who is struggling with an unfair
system. I know what you're talking about because I had my share of
negative & positive experiences with the social housing system. I'm
now pulling a rabbit out of my hat to hopefully have a home of my own
again after 5 years without. Frankly there are hidden paths to beating
the system but you have to know about them & be able to get them
yourself or have support.

There are always ways to prove discrimination but you need to record
any actions. No one should be prejudged simply because of one element
of their lives when it has no relevance on the decision at hand. Even
crack heads have the rights to shelter & the responsibility to respect
others. As for the comment about working hours of the many; I'm the
biological reverse of most & can only sleep in the day, no one ever
respects my rights to sleep. Noise happens but people need to respect
their neighbors & should try to keep the volume to a minimum. The only
way subsidized housing will ever work is a portable subsidy with open
housing without discrimination.

Good Luck to you all

ATB

[Judy MacLeod]

Whether it is or not, I sure appreciate it!

[Michael Bertrand]

Thank you katkit for explaining RGI Housing. I live in a great 40 unit place
and it is clean, quiet, no crackheads and a great neighbourhood. I hate the
inference of us all living in slums full of drugs and bugs and creepy
people. I'm quite happy paying $320.00 for rent. Thanks again. Mike PS>
My place is privately owned by the Kiwanis Club.

----- Original Message -----
From: "katkit" <kathy...@lycos.com>
To: "ODSP Fireside" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 8:16 AM
Subject: [odspfireside: 37930 ] Re: Landlords warned not to discriminate in
rental ads - ODSP recipients were one of the excluded groups