[odspfireside: 28357 ] Do you play the lottery?

[Hope]

Hi all,

An unemployed Alberta man walked away with 41 million two days ago.
And a London, ON woman who worked part time at a grocery store and had
$45 in the bank won a few million. I think we need a few lottery
winners here to live life hard off ODSP. I'm just saying. What would
you do with say 10 million?

Wouldn't it be nice to win and kiss ODSP goodbye once and for all and
drive by their office in your nice new whatever kind of car? I'm
thinking of starting to play. You never know. Hear hear? I say with
everything going up left right and centre and only a 1% increase, we
should pay $5 or so even monthly to just imagine the freedom.

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[abrowne]

... Budget Debate

The second thing I want to talk about is the whole provision of poverty, because this was much in the last budget, but not so much in this one. In 2003, the Premier stood in his place and ran a good and successful campaign for the Liberal Party, talking about poverty issues and that he wanted to do something about the horrendous level of poverty in Ontario. In 2007, he ran another campaign in which he said he wanted to be known as the poverty Premier. He promised in the 2007 budget process and the throne speech that he was going to do a lot of things to help the poor.

But what do we see in this budget? We see some of the cruellest, meanest, most horrible things being perpetrated by any government in the history of this province. I say that, remembering full well the meanness of Mike Harris around this issue. I say that, full well knowing that they cut back welfare payments by 21%. I know that. But what this government is doing is almost identical and even more hurtful than what the Conservatives did.

The first thing this government has done in this budget is that they've stood up and proudly announced that everybody's going to get a 1% increase-1%. But if you look at the small print, they're not going to get the money now. They're not going to get that huge 1%, which amounts to $6 if you're a single person, or $10 if you're a family, or $10 if you're on ODSP. You're not going to get that now. It is in November, if you're on ODSP, that you're going to get the 1%, and only in November. If you had the unmitigated gall to be on Ontario Works, because you're not quite as good, you have to wait until December to get the 1%.

\Mr. Paul Miller: A month later?

Mr. Michael Prue: A month later. So for six months, there's no increase, although they talk about that. And we know, and you know, and everybody out there knows that inflation is going to eat all of that before they get it-every cent.

Over the years, this government stands in their place, and every time I ask the minister questions, she always trots out the same thing: "This government, since 2003, has given an 11% increase." Inflation has been 14%. The people who are on welfare and ODSP are worse off today than they were in the deepest, darkest days of Mike Harris, and this government pretends to be proud of it. I think that is a disgrace.

But not to be outdone, you've got the special diet allowance. This government really wants to stick it to the poor. They really want to stick it to the poor.

Interjections.

Mr. Michael Prue: No, no. Just wait until I start reading what your government is doing, because you have no idea what's going on down there at the Human Rights Commission.

They have done away with the special diet, and they are replacing it with a nutritional supplement program. They didn't wait for the end of the month for their expert panel, for Gail Nyberg et al to come forward and say what needs to be done. When Gail Nyberg wrote to the government-and she's a very nice Liberal woman; she lives in my riding; I've known her for years; capable, competent-she begged you not to do this. But you didn't wait for her report; you went ahead and did it anyway. You didn't do anything about asset stripping, which they've talked about. You haven't done anything about the social assistance rules.

What you did do is you went to the Human Rights Commission. The Human Rights Commission ordered, on February 17, that this government pay people the special diet allowance that they deserved.

This government has gone way out of its way to try to reverse that decision. They will not obey the Human Rights Commission of Ontario. In fact, yesterday they filed a report. They filed an application before the Human Rights Commission in which they are asking that nothing be done to pay people the money that they are owed until the government can, in fact, change the law and make sure that they become ineligible.

I'd like to quote what the assistant deputy minister had to say, because they rely on his affidavit-the assistant deputy minister, and I'm looking for his name. I have it on the second document; if I can't locate the first one, it is on the second one. Anyway, I'll get the assistant deputy's name in a-oh, there it is: It's David Carter-Whitney, assistant deputy minister of the social policy development division of the Ministry of Community and Social Services, a position he has held since September 2007.

He makes the following statement in support of the government's action. I quote it starting on paragraph 7: "Unlike the SDA, which provides assistance"-that's the special diet allowance-"to social assistance recipients with a variety of medical conditions, the new program that was announced by the government would be medically based and would help individuals with severe medical needs that are on social assistance. Therefore, not all current SDA recipients will be eligible for the new program. As a result, the government indicated its intention to provide a transition period between the elimination of the SDA and the implementation of a NSP."

He's being very forthright, very honest about what you're doing. You are cutting off all of those people who have a special diet allowance in favour of some people who have severe medical needs who are going to get a new program.

He goes on in paragraph 10: "Notification to recipients

"The government wishes to provide the over 162,000 current SDA recipients with written notification of the date on which their payments will cease in order to help them prepare for an adjustment in their monthly social assistance."

Think about that: 162,000 people are going to get a letter saying that they're being cut off so that they can prepare themselves to get $10, $20, $50 or $200 less a month on which to live. That's what this government is doing. That's what you're doing in courts. That's what you're doing before the Human Rights Commission.

In paragraph 11, he writes, "In order to eliminate the SDA, amendments are required to both a minister's regulation and a Lieutenant Governor in Council regulation. Amendments to the latter are subject to the government approval process," which means that the cabinet is going to have approve it.

Of course, all the members of the Liberal caucus who are not in cabinet are going to cheer madly and clap when the minister stands up and makes this announcement.

He goes on to write in paragraph 12, "The LRC"-the Lieutenant Governor-"is scheduled to meet for business twice a month until the end of June 2010; and

"Committee and cabinet approval and signature by the Lieutenant Governor in Council" will be given by that time.

In paragraph 14, he writes, "I have been informed by the director, social assistance and municipal operations branch and believe that it will take 6 to 8 months to implement all the changes to the SDMT that are required to discontinue recipients' SDA payments, including:

"-4 months to implement the program data fix that will stop all current SDA payments;

"-6 to 8 months to program and implement the required changes that will prevent the system from creating future SDA payments.... This activity will include the planning, designing, and implementation of required coding changes" etc.

Then he goes on over many pages to describe how exactly the government intends to do this.

So if the backbenchers over there think you're not doing it, you're doing it. If you think that there's some kind of program and that you're going to help these poor people, you're not. It is the intention of the minister and the intention of the cabinet to cut them all off and to allow a certain limited few with severe medical problems back on. That means people are going to lose up to and including 20% of their payments that they get on ODSP. These are the poorest and sickest people we have in our province, and you are sticking it to them in this budget. They are being stuck to in a way that I find reprehensible and immoral. I even remember that back in those days-and I am no fan of Mike Harris, as you obviously know-he didn't even cut off that special allowance, but you're doing it.

[Annie]

re; Michael Prue
All I can say is wow.. Powerful .
Too bad it'll do no good, for us....
Annie

[Bonnie Briggs]

> Hi all,
>
> An unemployed Alberta man walked away with 41 million two
> days ago.
> And a London, ON woman who worked part time at a grocery
> store and had
> $45 in the bank won a few million.  I think we need a
> few lottery
> winners here to live life hard off ODSP.  I'm just
> saying.  What would
> you do with say 10 million?

<SNIP>

Hi Hope,
The first thing I'd would be to pay off my student loan and get Rev Can off my back.
Bonnie

[Brenda]

I know for a fact, because I've lived it, and I have the paperwork to
prove it, that the current odsp rates and regulations ammended by the
current provincial government lead by Dalton McGininty are certainly
not "worse then they were in the deepest, darkest days of Mike
Harris". The problem is the richer are richer, so the gap is bigger.

[corrinna]

I disagree with you Brenda. The difference is not that the
rich are richer, but that the buying power of a dollar is far
less than it was back in 1995. Rents have increased by
about 30-50%, utilities have increased by 200%, food
and clothing has also increased dramatically. Bus fare,
even a loaf of bread is 200% more than it was then. What
I could purchase with 30 dollars then was far mare than what
I can get for it now. This is the relevancy of that statement. While
our income has stagnated, inflation, cost of living, and the like
have skyrocketed.

A rich person can afford to eat whether he is "rich" or "even richer",
while those of us in poverty have grown poorer due to these
factors already mentioned, so it's rather that poor ARE getting
poorer.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Brenda" <folkh...@hotmail.com>

I know for a fact, because I've lived it,

certainly.....

[Hope]

I think honestly guys that one day there will be two classes. The
rich and the poor. I definately see it coming. Middle class wiped
out due to stock market and HST, higher cost of living and elderly.

Melanie

[Hope]

Yeah tell me about it. Everything has gone up. I bought two bags of
groceries for $70 with no meat. I don't eat meat usually because it's
too expensive but yeah, I love it. Is it just me or do groceries eat
most of our budget?

[mking103]

I might buy a ticket for the 649 when the prizes gets to be big. But
in the past, the most I have ever got was $10 for 3 numbers the same
(3 times in 20+ years).

[mking103]

My comments:

PARA ONE - Don't forget they changed the law 'amended it' back in
November 2005 to exclude many people from Special Diet, even those
with letters from the Ministry guaranteeing them until age 65. So they
have done this before. By the acts of changing the law and ignoring
the Human Rights Tribunal ruling, they are demonstrating that they
have a complete disregard for due process. Nazi Germany started out in
this way (from what I have read)

PARA TWO - I went to see someone at the 'Credit Counselling of Eastern
Ontario' and she did the budget, and said I needed between 1700 and
1800 per month (sound familiar?) to meet expenses. When I told her
ODSP only gave $464 for rent/shelter, she was astounded 'why so
little?' From discussions with people I am finding many are unaware
of this. Perhaps they think our rent is paid for, if they knew the
actual it might change their perceptions.

And 1% - they can stick it but I won't say where. I am totally
disgusted with this government.

On May 7, 1:01 am, abrowne <browne200...@yahoo.com> wrote:


>
>PARA ONE > What you did do is you went to the Human Rights Commission. The Human Rights Commission >ordered, on February 17, that this government pay people the special diet allowance that they deserved.

> This government has gone way out of its way to try to reverse that decision. They will not obey the Human
> Rights Commission of Ontario. In fact, yesterday they filed a report. They filed an application before the Human Rights Commission in which they are asking that nothing be done to pay people the money that they
> are owed until the government can, in fact, change the law and make sure that they become ineligible.

PARA TWO > Think about that: 162,000 people

> are going to get a letter saying that they're being cut off so that they can prepare themselves to get $10, $20, $50 or $200 less a month on which to live. That's what this government is doing. That's what you're doing in courts. That's what you're doing before the Human Rights Commission.

[Hope]

So buy a ticket. Today.

[Paul]

At 07:05 AM 5/8/2010, you wrote:
>I might buy a ticket for the 649 when the prizes gets to be big. But
>in the past, the most I have ever got was $10 for 3 numbers the same
>(3 times in 20+ years).

I don't play (well I played once $10 over 5 weeks on Super 7 about 8
years ago and got a lowsy free losing ticket).

I think of it this way....

You're a guaranteed winner financially speaking, if you don't play
the lottery game ... game as in any lottery.

[Lorene]

That woman, Bonnie, who worked in grocery store, won millions weeks
ago. My son's wife's family know her. He told me what Bonnie did the
first thing after getting the big cheque - she bought a used car for
$5000. He was shaking his head when he told me this.

Lorene

On May 6, 7:51 pm, Hope <melanie_s...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> An unemployed Alberta man walked away with 41 million two days ago.
> And a London, ON woman who worked part time at a grocery store and had
> $45 in the bank won a few million.  I think we need a few lottery
> winners here to live life hard off ODSP.  I'm just saying.  What would
> you do with say 10 million?
>

[abrowne]

You're right, Paul.

Does anybody ever wonder how the winners of the lottery get funded?

By the losers that keep buying tickets.  That's all!

---

From: Paul <paul...@gmail.com>

At 07:05 AM 5/8/2010, you wrote:
>I might buy a ticket for the 649 when the prizes gets to be big. But
>in the past, the most I have ever got was $10 for 3 numbers the same
>(3 times in 20+ years).

I don't play (well I played once $10 over 5 weeks on Super 7 about 8

years ago and got a lousy free losing ticket).

I think of it this way....

You're a guaranteed winner financially speaking, if you don't play
the lottery game ...  game as in any lottery.

[Hope]

That was funny Paul. You're only a winner if you walk away.

Don't you love that person at the front of the line at the gas station
or wherever cashing about 20 tickets for $2 each and you've been there
for 10 minutes? "Winner.....gagnon". No loser, for wasting your
time.

Don't you just want to slap that machine? Yeah!!!

Melanie

[Paul]

I was told the chances of winning aren't any different whatever the
winning value is. $6mil or $40mil.

We will say it is of a combo of 6 numbers you select or else just a quick pick.

Winning is only based on the chances of 6 numbers all or a good chunk
of them coincidentally being right all at once in one draw.

NOT BY WHAT THE WINNINGS AMOUNT TO, at the draw....

Funny how those people will only play when the pay-out is higher if
they won.....

I didn't want to originally point this out in my original email as I
didn't want to get flamed....

Lotteries have lost touch with the average Joe.

These days it is winning it all or being among the majority....

What happened to the days of winning a few hundred or even $100,000.

At 12:39 AM 5/9/2010, you wrote:
>You're right, Paul.
>
>Does anybody ever wonder how the winners of the lottery get funded?
>
>By the losers that keep buying tickets. That's all!

[Dave M]

havnt won a free tick in years......  here's a good story too; my dad rips a very small corner of the ticket and after checking his ticket at the local store (before the electronic swipe thing) he handed a winning tick , $100 or so .. and the person swiped it and said it was no good .... he knew it was and she handed him another ticket that was not ripped ...

... it happend to me to

he got his ticket back after snapping at her.  This store has undoubtedly ripped off millions from people.

Location: albion Mall in Rexdale. Kilping + Albion Roads.

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Paul <paul...@gmail.com> wrote:

At 07:05 AM 5/8/2010, you wrote:

I might buy a ticket for

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[Paul]

At 01:26 AM 5/9/2010, you wrote:
>That was funny Paul. You're only a winner if you walk away.
>
>Don't you love that person at the front of the line at the gas station
>or wherever cashing about 20 tickets for $2 each and you've been there
>for 10 minutes? "Winner.....gagnon". No loser, for wasting your
>time.
>
>Don't you just want to slap that machine? Yeah!!!

I sent you a private email off this group.

But yes.....

OLGA should have a tune for losing tickets.

I'll leave it to your own digression what you would want the machine
to say out loud.

[Hope]

Yeah, there was a show on this scamming going on in the States too on
W5 or something like that. About 30 lottery sales people were put in
jail for fraud. They would say the ticket is no good, though it
really was and claim the winnings for themselves. Isn't that awful?
W5 went undercover with hidden cameras and caught them all doing it.
All were caught. I feel bad for those who rightfully won who didn't
get their money. Can't trust anyone, can you?

Paul, your e-mail to me was funny. Yeah, you're so right. You want
to laugh at the losers don't you? Some of them are highly addicted to
the lottery. Thanks for e-mailing me.

Melanie

[Paul]

>
>Paul, your e-mail to me was funny. Yeah, you're so right. You want
>to laugh at the losers don't you? Some of them are highly addicted to
>the lottery. Thanks for e-mailing me.

Glad you liked my private offline humor on what the machine would say
if you lost.

[Fibrofog]

>Re: PARA ONE - Don't forget they changed the law 'amended it' back in

> November 2005 to exclude many people from Special Diet, even those
> with letters from the Ministry guaranteeing them until age 65. So they
> have done this before. By the acts of changing the law and ignoring
> the Human Rights Tribunal ruling, they are demonstrating that they
> have a complete disregard for due process. Nazi Germany started out in
> this way (from what I have read)

I personally don't really care if people play or don't play the
lottery, it's one of the only "privleges" we're "allowed" to do
without having to let ODSP know about (unless you win and are the
honest type). My real beef with this paragraph is the comparision
between how the Ministry runs and Nazi Germany. Of all the foolish
things to write and with the most ironic timing (VE day was Saturday).
Unless you were THERE during Nazi rule, or were one of the allied
forces who freed those who were capitive by the Nazi I really don't
think you're a person to make this type of comparision. So often do I
read or hear "Just like Hitler" "Just like the Nazis" from people who
have "read" or "heard". What were you reading? Who did you hear from?
You belittle the evil that was done by the Nazis and Hitler with this
comparision and you insult every single vet who went to Europe and
fought against the regime many of whom never came home for YOUR
freedom. You may not LIKE how the ministry or the federal/provincal
governments work but count yourself lucky we were on the winning side,
cause guess what? Other then the Jews the disabled were thrown into
the death camps, gas chambers and ovens.

[Brenda]

The power of the dollar has little to do with provincial regulations.
Rent control helps a bit.
Buying power ended many moons ago, when milk started to be sold by the
liter rather then a quart.
Dalton and Mike were probably just learning how to put on a tie and
fasten their cumberbuns at the time.
Way back then I could send my son to the variety store to purchase a
quart of milk with a one dollar bill and there was change left over
for him to get a boodle of candy to share with friends. Do you
remember one dollar bills?

On May 7, 11:15 am, "corrinna" <corrinnacorri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I disagree with you Brenda. The difference is not that the
> rich are richer, but that the buying power of a dollar is far
> less than it was back in 1995.

[Brenda]

I think the posters reference to Nazism is based on fears that such
inhumane gangsterism could happen again because the Province of
Ontario knowingly permitts it's own Ministries to write policies and
practices that violate individuals rights and there are no provisions
in the law for victim compensation if agents of the crown do it
purposefully. I share that fear.

Also, you didn't have to be there at the time of the holocust to be
directly effected by the consequences of that war.
My dad, who was honoured by the Dutch, has lived his entire adult
life with operational stress disorder. He has a frightful temper, and
though I love him, having a parent with passive/aggressive syndrom
kinda takes the fun out of freedom.

fibrofog wrote:"My real beef with this paragraph is the comparision

between how the Ministry runs and Nazi Germany. Of all the foolish
things to write and with the most ironic timing (VE day was Saturday).
Unless you were THERE during Nazi rule, or were one of the allied
forces who freed those who were capitive by the Nazi I really don't
think you're a person to make this type of comparision."

[corrinna]

Well, if memory serves, one dollar bills were fazed out
and replaced with the loonie in 1987, but I do not understand
the point your making at all. First you said that the problem was
not that we were not getting enough money, but that the rich are getting
richer.

( your original post : ".....The problem is the richer are richer, so the
gap is bigger.")

So I don't understand you replying that the buying power of the dollar
has nothing to do with provincial regs?
Also, how do you conclude that buying power was wiped
out by the metric system? Buying power is directly related to how
much goods can be purchased for a dollar, whether these goods come
in imperial or metric. It is a fact that what you could purchase with a
dollar, back when your child went to the store, is not what they can
buy now, this is what buying power means. You even show this in your reply,
so I am at a loss to understand? As an aside, I miss one dollar bills!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Brenda" <folkh...@hotmail.com>

The power of the dollar has little to do with provincial regulations.

Buying power ended many moons ago, when milk started to be sold by the
liter rather then a quart.

I could send my son to the variety store to purchase a
quart of milk with a one dollar bill and there was change left over
for him to get a boodle of candy to share with friends. Do you
remember one dollar bills?