Rent vs Room & Board
Gilbert
"room & board" vs "max shelter allowance". Would R&B be a greater
amount? (It's a given that it still comes out of the Total assistance).
jbkeh
Lodge) is an alternative to Shelter Allowance.
It is NOT; it is an alternative to "Basic Needs" and "Shelter
Allowance" COMBINED.
Since "Shelter Allowance" varies (up to the maximum) with your ACTUAL
shelter costs, while "Board and Lodge" is a flat amount regardless of
what you actually pay for it, the determination of which is "better"
depends on YOUR personal circumstance.
Currently, Board and Lodge for a single totals $805 ($744 + $61)
regardless of actual shelter costs, while Basic Needs and Shelter
Allowance is $584 plus up to $469 of the ACTUAL shelter costs
See Dir 6.1; 6.2; 6.3:
http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/programs/social/directives/ODSP_incomesupport.aspx
On Aug 1, 3:09 am, Gilbert <imgilbertgr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... how much money could an ODSP recipient receive for
erekale...@gmail.com
other variables:
Better to share cost of living then pay room and board - you can afford more
and if you work with someone else - get a nicer place and have mre direction
in your food
If self employed from home eventually - better too - business can cover some
expense (if shelter costs over allowance for shelter limit - which is common
for many)
When they raise the rates - and your costs exceed allowance - automatically
raised to your costs - happens every few years by 1% or so.
You see it is unlikely you will find a long term solution for housing that
is less than the shelter allowance.
Also in room and board situation - it is unlikely you will find they always
buy the food and toiletries you will need like...
3 singles can mortgage or rent a place for 1407 by new policy and
directives. - as long as you are all equals and the cost of mortgage(and
taxes if on mortgage) and utilites etc or rent and utilities is more than
or equal to 1407.
From policy 6.2
•Joint Ownership. The amount of shelter allowance paid in joint ownership
situations is as follows:
Pay half shelter (up to the shelter maximum) - Where a principal residence
is jointly owned and both owners are living in the home, both owners are
equally responsible for the shelter costs (50/50).
Pay full shelter (up to the shelter maximum) - Where a principal residence
is jointly owned between an ODSP recipient (resident) and a non- ODSP
recipient (non-resident) allow full shelter costs to the ODSP recipient
residing in the home alone.
•Shared Accommodation. When a recipient lives with roommates, the shelter
allowance will reflect his/her actual share of the total shelter costs, up
to the maximum allowable amount for his/her benefit unit. For example, if a
single ODSP recipient lives in an apartment with a roommate and pays $300 of
the total monthly shelter cost of $500, the recipient would be issued $300
in shelter allowance (the portion he/she actually pays). Recipients are
required to provide documentation of the total shelter costs and their share
(e.g., rent receipt, a signed agreement between all roommates, etc.).
http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/programs/social/directives/ODSP_incomesupp
ort.aspx
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"ODSP Fireside" group.
To change email delivery, nickname or unsubscribe from this group visit:
http://groups.google.ca/group/odspfireside/subscribe?hl=en
To post to this group via email, send email to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
justice4odsp
their own in the community - i.e. they want to de-institutionalize
people. Yet, if you look at how much income and benefits a person can
get when they live in a long-term care facility, you will see they get
coverage for dentures and other medical expenses, plus a living
allowance for $138 per month even if they have no mandatory expenses for
things like toiletries, and a variety of other things when they're in
the institution.
If one lives in the community, they're lucky if they can afford the rent
and groceries, let alone have $138 left over to spend on whatever they
want.
To see the rules for yourself, read Directives 8.1 - 8.5. (the starting
link is here:
http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/programs/social/directives/ODSP_incomesupport.aspx)
justice4odsp.
erekale...@gmail.com
Save the taxpayer money and allow us to afford to reintegrate with soviety
-----Original Message-----
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com]
justice4odsp.
--
abrowne
erekale...@gmail.com
With the new co renters and co-owneres provisions in the policy that is being challenged J the problem is the laws are already there and if they are taken into account (applied and challenged) legally they paint a different picture…but most things are not challenged under threat of loss of income….
For example – if you consider that another tenant can pay half…it iwlnot be long before incoperated businesses (which are legal entities unto themselves) can pay half and already utilities etc are paving the way
Presebtly part of your shelter costs can be covered in this way
Your shelter cost includes utilities but lets say you rent a place tha t costs you $200 more with utilities than you can afford and your hyrdro bill is $100 more than if your business is not runnig there…you can pay the business pportion of your hydro costs with your business income as a deduction that is allowed before calculated earnings…
This also applies for heating and water….
This is just like using a personal phone line for business – the first $20 or so (basic line is your cost) anything above is the business expense.
From policy directives - 5.4
A “reasonableness” test must be applied to business expenses to ensure they meet the following criteria:
- necessary to the operation of the business;
- will maintain or increase the likelihood of earning income from the business; and,
- the item or service is purchased on a "best buy" basis (i.e., the cost is not unusually high or inflated)
Approved business expenses:
- Utility Costs for the Business: If the business is operated in the home and the business results in increased hydro consumption, the increased cost can be deducted as a business expense. If the business is operated at a different address, the entire utility expense may be deducted. Utility costs include heating, water and electricity expenses.
- Business Insurance: Includes insurance for fire, theft and liability for the business premise. If the business is operated in the recipient’s home, only the difference between home and business insurance is deductible.
Elsehere
- 60% of gross income for renting self-contained quarters, land or a garage;
Elsehwhere in shelter 6.2 shelter
Business owns half house applied to joint co-habitation
- Pay half shelter (up to the shelter maximum) - Where a principal residence is jointly owned and both owners are living in the home, both owners are equally responsible for the shelter costs (50/50).
Or
- Shared Accommodation. When a recipient lives with roommates, the shelter allowance will reflect his/her actual share of the total shelter costs, up to the maximum allowable amount for his/her benefit unit. For example, if a single ODSP recipient lives in an apartment with a roommate and pays $300 of the total monthly shelter cost of $500, the recipient would be issued $300 in shelter allowance (the portion he/she actually pays). Recipients are required to provide documentation of the total shelter costs and their share (e.g., rent receipt, a signed agreement between all roommates, etc.).
Elsewhjere in 9.3 heating costs
Shared Accommodation
When a recipient is residing with another adult person(s), who is not a member of the benefit unit, the amount payable for heating is the total cost divided by the number of adults to derive an equal share for heating costs.
Really at the end of the day you need to get a ruling from policy interpreters…and in writing….ODSP Staff are unable to make that determination unless the Director or manager uses their liberal latitude to put something in writing for you using the reasonableness test…
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of abrowne
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 1:49 PM
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
--
abrowne
- Personal Draws or Owner’s Withdrawals: taken from the business are not allowed business expenses and are considered earned income.
- Wages Paid to Members of the Benefit Unit or Other Employees: including payroll expenses (e.g. income tax, EI, CPP, Workplace Safety and Insurance Benefits) are not approved as business expenses even if the recipient deems these expenses as necessary. Note: This does not include payment made to an individual who is hired due to the disability related needs of the recipient.
Payments made by a recipient to dependent children are not an approved business expense, but if paid to a dependent child are not charged as income to the benefit unit. - Business Losses: Under ODSP, a business loss is equivalent to a net income of $0.00. Losses reported after the first year may not be carried forward (i.e. to offset business income in future periods).
- Depreciation (also known as a capital cost allowance): on business assets and vehicles is not an approved expense.
- Entertainment and Gifts
- Long Distance Travel expenses (bus, airline ticket etc.) are not generally an approved business expense. However, where the recipient can demonstrate that he/she has earned income as a result of the travel, the recipient may deduct all or part of the travel expenses up to the amount of income earned from the trip.
For example, a trip to Vancouver cost $475 and the revenue earned was $300. Therefore, $300 may be approved as an expense. The balance of $175 is considered a business loss and not deductible.
Likewise, if the trip cost $500 and the revenue earned was $700, the $700 is considered business income and the $500 may be approved as an expense.
Verification of the income earned must be submitted to approve the long distance travel expense.
Approval for travel outside Ontario for more than 30 days must be obtained in advance of the trip. - Hotels and Meals
- Conventions, Conferences or similar events including travel, hotels and meals related to these events
Denny B.
I'll make the assumption you may have run out of anxiety meds early....
denny -
>
> That's why they are going to one day institutionalize all ODSP
> recipients. So they don't have to pay out rental costs. It's far too
> expensive. I could even see it happening in 2 years.
>
> All your cheque would go to the institution or you would get about
> $200 a month spending money.
abrowne
Subject: RE: [odspfireside: 38608 ] What I See Coming - The Future of ODSP
erekale...@gmail.com
Pensions are disappearing and they do not have the same awful media spin as
being disabled...
A job is necessary for a resume
But beware...a job means you are employable...can work...
In my case I am opting to work even though my doctors are telling me that I
am doing irrepairable damage...
I need treatment and medical rehabilitation as well as rest and
healing...instead I have ot try to find a way to make ends meet....so while
I can work, I really cannot and it is causing many problems to get worse...
I need physical therapy and healing so that I can live a normal life
expectancy of about 50 years (seems to be my expected limit with my
condition in a perfect world.) some one with my conditions that I know and
was in better health than me just died of a heart attack at age 36....
-----Original Message-----
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Hope
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 3:43 PM
To: ODSP Fireside
Cc: melani...@yahoo.ca
Subject: [odspfireside: 38603 ] What I See Coming - The Future of ODSP
That's why they are going to one day institutionalize all ODSP
recipients. So they don't have to pay out rental costs. It's far too
March of Dimes and PPRC do nothing for me, I do it all myself. I'm
great as selling myself. If you haven't worked in 5 or more years,
it's going to be very hard to get a job. ODSP could be taken from
under you and how would you survive on the last of your support
payments? I encourage everyone to get employable.
Melanie
justice4odsp
Now, all those who have worked while under ODSP, please put up your hand.
Which prgoram let you keep more money?
Which program had a formula you could at least partially understand?
I'll see if I can find the STEP formula when I get home. If I can find it, I will share it.
Basically I got to keep the first $150. After that I had to give up $0.75 on each dollar.
Becasue the cheque came at the end of a pay period I had the amount deducted off each FBA cheque and, each time I declared my pay, they would phone me and tell me how much to write a cheque for so I could give the money back to the provincial government.
To date I still believe I was being ripped off. But my cousin, a chartered accountant, and a few lawyers my family hired back then, couldn't figure it out.
In the end, I lost the job because I could no longer walk so it didn't matter.
What I'm saying is, ODSP is FAR from perfect but for those who experienced the old and the new, ODSP is a little better.
REMEMBER, I'm sharing the facts. I do not condone the mess.
justice4odsp
Uppity Woman
|
No, that is not going to happen. Good grief, let's not get ridiculous. It costs far more to institutionalise someone than to give them rent money.
Regarding working, if we could work and support ourselves, we'd not be on ODSP.
Uppity
-------Original Message------- |
|
From: Hope
Date: 08/01/11 16:21:54
To: ODSP Fireside
Subject: [odspfireside: 38603 ] What I See Coming - The Future of ODSP That's why they are going to one day institutionalize all ODSP
recipients. So they don't have to pay out rental costs. It's far too
|
expensive. I could even see it happening in 2 years.
|
aline legault
That is why I encourage as many as possible to work and build up your
resumé. No I did not say EVERYONE, only those who are able. I can't
stand sitting at home alone and working will get you more marketable.
March of Dimes and PPRC do nothing for me, I do it all myself. I'm
great as selling myself. If you haven't worked in 5 or more years,
it's going to be very hard to get a job. ODSP could be taken from
under you and how would you survive on the last of your support
payments? I encourage everyone to get employable.
Melanie
Bill Higgs
erekale...@gmail.com
While the policy says in one line you cannot hire employees (and I agree this is downright stupidity), in other places it references it in other ways…
You can hire “employees” in a sense…you can infrequently subcontract, and you can hire people to assist where you are incapable on a regular basis.
You can also pay others to do work for your business like professionals. And the policy regard the necessity of hiring for specific businesses and therefore should not discriminate against others.
Actually if the phone line is the only line in the home, you are allowed to take the cost of a basic (personal) line as an owner draw or a non allowable deduction, and everything over and above that is business (of course with the exception of personal long distance). Personal long distance is becoming a thing of the past though - $10 a month for North American long distance unlimited…. I found this to be the best option although not ideal. This is after 8 years of reporting while being followed by a CSR, Manager, having an interpretation done by a policy interpreter on the ODSP policies regarding this, and evaluating it with a Certified Management Accountant….Calling features necessary for a business like call waiting, voicemail, a business number line (which is usually around $50 – on order to have business benefits and a single line listing in the yellow pages and a business listing in the white pages)
Of course personal draws are considered income
Notices the wages to people who are needed for disability reasons
The hwohle losses things is absolutely asinine – year three December 29th – purchase supplies and have a net loss, january 1 you sell resultant product that uses those supplies for income and you cannot offset that income with your expense, you can only hope the eact same scenario repeats itself next year to be fair.
While CCA is not allowed, the purchase of assets is…cash basis for odsp accrual for CRA…accrual plus Capital cost allowance = messy for ODSP especially when using your income tax return…..and mix in the loans you probably took out to buy those assets to do your business because lets face I t you didn’t start you business with an extra 25 or even 10 thousand dollars…..you borrowed…repayment of loans is allowed….nw you need two accountants…horray
Entertainment and gifts – no but advertising yes…lets face it ODSP was not set up so you can give everyone a free something …that is what they are trying to police – abuse and this is an open door for it for some…but a lot of business require gthe use of gifts and entertainment – I know in my industry for large contracts I should be thanking them for a contract with a gift and I take the hit…
Travel…because travel and accommodation are not covered I lost my first major contract having to work that into the pricing and my price was too high…because of not getting approval for about $1000 I actuall lost a $4500.00 contract if I would have priced it properly (competing in a very competitive bidding scenario – I was trying to get the job develop relationships and if all went well I would have cleared about $1000, ( ihad to price it more) The costs were for gas and room for about 7 nights away from home all over Ontario consulting – I couldn’t see the sense in drivig home everyday anywhere from 3 to 7 hours…cost of gas, cost on my body, impractical to be able to do all the sites ina reasonable time….a large company was feeling me out to see if ican and taking a risk, had I got the job and succeed I would have got many others…instead they went with someone they knew who bid nearly the same price….i couldn’t’ afford risking all that work and time and travel (things can go wrong) and not earn a bit of money over an above costs to pay for surprises.
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of abrowne
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:35 PM
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 38606 ] Re: Rent vs Room & Board
The only IN HOME business expenses that are approved are BUSINESS telephone,
….. BUSINESS;
added hydro and gas costs (if applicable), you CANNOT write off "business in the
home expense" on ODSP, but can with CRA.
Other NON - approved business expenses, many designed to prevent the business
…………………………… to hire an
employee(s) as disabled persons in business are not super-human. Even non-disabled
persons in business need to hire employees to let their business grow and make money.
List of Non-Approved Business Expenses
…………………………………………..Approval for travel outside Ontario for more than 30 days must be obtained in advance of the trip.
· Hotels and Meals
· Conventions, Conferences or similar events including travel, hotels and meals related to these events
From: "erekale...@gmail.com" <erekale...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 2:55:19 PM
Subject: RE: [odspfireside: 38602 ] Re: Rent vs Room & Board
With the new co renters and co-owneres provisions in the policy that is being challenged J the problem is the laws are already there and if they are taken ……. tha t costs you $200 more with utilities than you can afford and your hyrdro bill is $100 more than if your business is not runnig there…you can pay the business pportion of your hydro costs with your business income as a deduction that is allowed before calculated earnings…
This also applies for heating and water….
This is just like using a personal phone line for business – the first $20 or so (basic line is your cost) anything above is the business expense.
--
justice4odsp
There are some of us who never quit looking for work. Try getting hired with very little work history, very little post secondary education, being in your 50's and using a wheelchair.
No one wants a person in their 40's who DOESN'T have a wheelchair, let alone one with a difference. They also don't want students who have just graduated from University - look at the stats for days unemployment rate - it will confirm it. Employers are looking for perfection, they're trying to hire as few people as possible to do the job even if it means overworking them, they rarely hire full-time and instead, they are permanent part-time or part-time on contract.
It's for these reasons that I don't understand why people with disabilities would even suggest we all work, out loud. Many people CAN'T work because they have a DISABILITY. Those that can, are hard pressed to find a job. Every time the government or the public hears a person with a disability say, we all should get a job, they grab onto it and say to those who are not working, " see, even your peers are suggesting it."
I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself and say I am sick and tired of people pointing at another person in a wheelchair and saying, if they can do it, so can you. The other person might be able to stand up and walk a few feet. They might have more personal support from a friend, family member, or community service. There are tons of reasons that would explain the difference so there is no way on God's green earth, that we can legitimately be comparing disabilities, and people with different types of disability to each other.
All that being said, I will have to admit the hardest thing in the world to do is nothing. I either want a job, a volunteer job, or some other valid and publicly acceptable means to be integrated into society. I would do the world for anyone, but in order to stay well and stay hopeful, I need to be doing something constructive that is doable and within my means now that I have a disability.
There is some truth in what the Social Assistance Review says in their preliminaries - we are more healthy when we are doing something - but we need to debunk the belief that all of us CAN work. There are many who can't, and there are many who emotionally and physically can, but who will never get hired.
We can't support a government line that unrealistically will put us all at risk of being expected to do things we simply can't do.
NOW FOR A SUGGESTED AWARENESS EVENT:
By way of a protest I think we should all go to our respective MPP's officeS with a resume in hand and ask that they give us a job. When they give the excuses about why NOT to hire us, our comeback should be, well it's clearly evident that the government expects us to work and we have been everywhere. Working in your office is our employment of last resort (note the wording has been designed to match Meilleur's when she says ODSP should be the income of last resort).
If we all picked a blitz day in September and sent out a press release to our respective papers to announce that we're doing it, it may be attention grabbing enough, to get the media to cover it.
If people are game to do this (even if you're not employable or aren't well enough to work because don't worry, you won't be hired that day, at least), let me know and I'll write the press release. It's one thing to banter about what's not working. It's another thing to do what is necessary to creatively capture the public's attention so they can be made aware of how bad the situation has become.
justice4odsp
On 01/08/2011 3:43 PM, Hope wrote:
That's why they are going to one day institutionalize all ODSP recipients. So they don't have to pay out rental costs. It's far too expensive. I could even see it happening in 2 years. All your cheque would go to the institution or you would get about $200 a month spending money. That is why I encourage as many as possible to work and build up your resumé. No I did not say EVERYONE, only those who are able. I can't stand sitting at home alone and working will get you more marketable. March of Dimes and PPRC do nothing for me, I do it all myself. I'm great as selling myself. If you haven't worked in 5 or more years, it's going to be very hard to get a job. ODSP could be taken from under you and how would you survive on the last of your support payments? I encourage everyone to get employable. Melanie
Mr. Smith
doing your work for "free." You're doing it to earn a living. That's
the point.
On Aug 1, 11:14 pm, "Bill Higgs" <billhi...@xplornet.ca> wrote:
> "you want a cheque, you need to do free work"
>
erekale...@gmail.com
What a great action plan….i always write mps – but asking them to employ us is a great idea – I think that it should be done covertly so they do not have canned answers for us or do a media spin on it
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of justice4odsp
Melanie,
There are some of us who never quit looking for work
NOW FOR A SUGGESTED AWARENESS EVENT:
By way of a protest I think we should all go to our respective MPP's officeS with a resume in hand and ask that they give us a job. When they give the excuses about why NOT to hire us, our comeback should be, well it's clearly evident that the government expects us to work and we have been everywhere. Working in your office is our employment of last resort (note the wording has been designed to match Meilleur's when she says ODSP should be the income of last resort).
If we all picked a blitz day in September and sent out a press release to our respective papers to announce that we're doing it, it may be attention grabbing enough, to get the media to cover it.
justice4odsp
Atb
I should say thanks for the laugh, except every laugh is punctuated
with tears & cries of pain (I was hit by a car the night before last).
So I should start a home business should I? Well done that & regretted
every minute. I'm a fully qualified dog trainer, did my apprenticeship
'96-'98 under the former president of the canadian pet trainer
association, specialized in aggressive dog rehab & ran my own
business. I even continued my training to become a certified service
dog trainer which I paid out of my own pocket. I had a thriving
business doing private one on one classes, I even had a waiting list
of people who wanted my services but guess what ODSP made it
impossible to continue.
I couldn't hire someone to take over my classes when I was too sick to
work or even accept an apprentice despite over 3 dozen requests. Most
of my expenses that were critical to run a dog training program were
disallowed because they didn't have a clue what it took to run a dog
training school. So at the end of the day every penny that came in was
"income" & taken off my check even though I wasn't breaking even. If I
took a case pro bono because the person couldn't afford to pay I was
berated for my kindness by my worker. The rules kept changing & I
couldn't keep up. As if that wasn't enough I then had to deal with the
CRA.
I finally had to close my doors & go belly up. I then spent a couple
of weeks in the hospital recovering from the stress (they caused me),
starvation (because I had no money for food), being stabilized on my
medications (because I had no drug coverage & couldn't afford private
insurance from the only company who would insure me with my
preexisting conditions) & more that I won't go into but suffice to say
I didn't have a chance of success but I was too stubborn to give up
before I had to because I couldn't leave the hospital or run my
business from the hospital.
Now I train dogs on a case by case basis, the courts no longer order
dogs into my program, instead many are just summarily put to sleep
since there isn't a local agency willing to assume liability. I work
mainly with low income & disabled clients who understand that with a
pro bono disabled trainer they have to understand & respect that I
might not be able to be available 24/7 & might have to cancel
appointments despite my best intentions. The government doesn't get my
taxes & ODSP can continue to pay for every last penny for anything I'm
entitled to & need; & I won't feel guilty about it for a second. They
pushed me over the edge so they will just have to deal with me over
the edge.
So yeah that was my last attempt at running a business, why don't you
try what I did & then tell me to just get a job. Or better yet you
explain to those people who had to take beloved pets to the vet to be
euthanized because there wasn't another local trainer who would stand
up in court & swear to be liable for a dog who had bit. With me those
dogs had a 75% chance of rehab, without me they had a 100% chance of a
needle.
ATB
erekale...@gmail.com
I had a profitable business go south because I couldn't make wise business
decisions that were obvious due to ODSP constraints ....
This is a common experience....Some of us have really tried with
conviction...but when you are told you can start a business...but then later
find out you cannot think and plan like any commonsense and successful
business man (including the ones you are competing with) and are not allowed
to make wise business or financial decisions that are financially
responsible because the mechanism in place will financially punish yo u and
your business....you are set up to fail at anything truly successful - I
guess they want us all on ODSP forever so they have a job , but do not want
to give us any support payments - so fine get a paper route...but don't
start thinking you can do without by planning on becoming
successful...because your failure is our mandate...but will phrase it in a
politically correct way that media can spin it to seem like we are helping
you
Before I became disabled, I worked for a large company in the engineering
department...i watched a person design an assembly line operator tool to
fix an assembly problem, he spent countless hours and quite a lot of
money....and upon presenting it to the operator (unionized may have helpt)
the operator flat out refused to touch it or ever use it... further the
assembly operators demonstrated why the device was a ridiculous thing...and
the n provided a better lower cost suggestion - no one ever asked the
operator who deals with it every day....and somewhere away from the
situation someone with less day to day experience developed a solution that
didn't take essential things into account...
I feel like the Self Employment program was designed by a PR rep ,
definitely not an accountant, or a successful business man - according to
any accountant or successful business man I have outlined it to...and
definitely not by someone on ODSP who honestly wants to leave it
behind...when I started the process I said I would be willing to plan for
self reliance in under 5 years - my goal was two...and I would be open and
honest throughout the process to provide info so they could improve the
process and help others...i have also offered numerous time that I would be
willing to work with them even for free to help disabled become self reliant
through self employment where possible by sharing my experience with workers
and anyone interested....up and down the hierarchy of ODSP...everyone would
say the same thing - wow you make a lot of really good points (even the
person in charge of interpreting the SE portion of ODSP policy in never land
who was writing a paper on it all was really impressed with a few of the
suggestion that I presented her...but ..in the end - no one was really
interested .....
A decade of trying and lessons learned and no wants to hear in ODSP...
They would rather the public just know that every opportunity is given to us
lazy useless incompetent and unappreciated fraudulent disabled people...and
somehow we just screw it all up and we really need them...but don't deserve
it so that they can keep their jobs while cutting out support and
service....so they can continue to get votes from those who choose to remain
ignorant of what is really happening.
What is hauntingly concerning is the fact that so many are willing to follow
the leader lemming right off the cliff and drink from the same cool aid
while ignoring the fiscally responsible reality and our duty to one another
-----Original Message-----
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Atb
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 2:39 AM
To: ODSP Fireside
Subject: [odspfireside: 38735 ] Re: What I See Coming - The Future of ODSP
Excuse me a minute, I can't stop laughing long enough to type. I guess
I should say thanks for the laugh, except every laugh is punctuated
with tears & cries of pain (I was hit by a car the night before last).
So I should start a home business should I? Well done that & regretted
every minute. I'm a fully qualified dog trainer, did my apprenticeship
So yeah that was my last attempt at running a business, why don't you
Jennifer Manley
viable anyway, how is ODSP involved? I'm looking at starting up a
small consulting company myself and am trying to get everyone's
experiences here. (Search is great!)
On Aug 4, 2:39 am, Atb <adambartlet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... even though I wasn't breaking even.
Jennifer Manley
drawn up, there was a (conspiratorial?) decision that if you were able
to be successfully self-employed then you shouldn't be on ODSP anyway.
So you're setup to fail in order to get you off ODSP and THEN run your
successful business. In a way, it makes sense. In a way.
Gilbert
>
> They would rather the public just know that every opportunity is given to us
> lazy useless incompetent and unappreciated fraudulent disabled people...and
> somehow we just screw it all up and we really need them...but don't deserve
> it so that they can keep their jobs while cutting out support and
> service....so they can continue to get votes from those who choose to remain
> ignorant of what is really happening.
>
> What is hauntingly concerning is the fact that so many are willing to follow
> the leader lemming right off the cliff and drink from the same cool aid
> while ignoring the fiscally responsible reality and our duty to one another
listen and love amo to use in question period.
That is a point I want to use in the election "let's you and him
fight"!
We need to learn how to play them against THEMSELVES, It's NOT US
against Them.
IT'S THEM AGAINST THEMSELVES! (with a little help from our friends).
WE ARE THEIR TOOLS!
Gilbert.
abrowne
abrowne
Subject: [odspfireside: 38780 ] Re: What I See Coming - The Future of ODSP
erekale...@gmail.com
is a risk and it takes a few years for the average business doing thing
right to make a good go of it....
You know how much people hate doing taxes? You will hate the reporting
requirement even more.......more so their administration of income reporting
Do not start up anything until you have everything in writing about how they
will react to how you intend to do your business..
It can be a slippery slope - things could work out, but the framework
promotes a downhill spiral...with a big bump at thend - if you are annual
reporter especially....
I could write abook on how to make things easier with tips and trick to
remain compliant without succumbing to the avalanche of extra work and
hurdles they put in front of you - given my ten years - but in the end I
learned that ODSP has a way of infecting your business with their
inefficiencies rendering your business not viable....so befor ei tell you
all my tricks to making it almost bearable - I want to strongly caution
you.....Certified Management Accontant - many - are scratching their heads
in disbelievef when I show them the underbelly of the great big - you get to
keep half spiel that plays so well in the media.
Things that they do just do not make sense at all - not to any successful
bunnies man or accountant I have had review it....
There have been many previous posts regarding people s experiences and their
outlook on this subject
My office as per policy wont recognize my capital cost allowance, and while
that is policy - I had to buy those assets (equipment ot do the work) ...
Instead of taking spreadsheets and report (refuses to look) that I created
to meet the guidelines of reporting...the worker just takes my income tax
return and business statement which is accrual based ( btw she knows nothing
about accounting) and on some else's advice - she takes my income tax
business form and remove s the capital cost deduction and decides I have
more income than I actually did...on a cash basis...depsite the fact hat I
point out that my asset expenses are not recognized anywhere else on my
income tax.. I even point to the part of the income tax return that lists
the assets bought that year...still - blank look....then I say well then at
least you will let me claim the credit card bill that I used to purchase
those business assets as an expense....credit card payments that are
reflected no where on the income tax return --- still a blank look......and
the "we don't allow capital cost allowance as a deductible expense" lights
ar eon but nobody's an accountant there.....
It gets way worse... but I have to tell you - even though - I still have
hope and keep trying....but I have been trying to get them to recognize
legitimate business expenses for three years - someone said ODSP is fast at
correcting their mistakes - 3 years is not fast enough - during that time -
I had to pay for it and lose support as it was considered income....
And then there is the whole concept of not carrying losses forward....who
dreams up this Cr4p?
I buy supplies in December (for a deeply ODSP technical reason - call this
year 2 - bonus points to anyone who knows why I did this) to fulfill an
order in January (call this year 3)....so I experience a loss in year 2
that is not carried forward and the sale in year 3 is all income despite my
credit card being in debt...for the unrecognized expense in year two I had
to make in order to have supplies to tearn that income...this is for annual
reporters - for monthly reporters I can only imagine it is worse.
The whole thing is rampant with this stuff I could write an entire novel on
this subject too.
EA
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Jennifer Manley
I'm sorry but maybe I'm misunderstanding. If your business wasn't
viable anyway, how is ODSP involved? I'm looking at starting up a
small consulting company myself and am trying to get everyone's
experiences here. (Search is great!)
Atb <adambartlet
erekale...@gmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com]
justice4odsp
At least you reply to your email and answer your phone, or return phone calls almost immediately. That level of customer service is to be commended under the circumstances.
What it tells me is that places (like ODSP), and other services we have to depend upon, has no excuse for their shoddy level of customer service.
justice4odsp
On 04/08/2011 9:03 PM, abrowne wrote:
Jennifer,
justice4odsp
I knew something was funny because no matter how I cut it, things never add up. Now I know why. There was something funny about how they were doing things.
You should submit this stuff to the media if you feel up to it - either that, or write a Blog. A free location is www.blogspot.com. It's Google based.
justice4odsp
Jennifer Manley
month. So from one point of view this could be seen as subsidizing
your business. If you wanted to be treated by normal CRA deductions
and have ODSP out of your small business, then your income should be
supporting your family on it's own, just like any other family
business. I don't like this eating your cake and having it too.
abrowne
Subject: [odspfireside: 38823 ] Re: What I See Coming - The Future of ODSP
abrowne
Jennifer Manley
about 15% of the population, many who DO NOT rely on government
subsidies and pay their own way. You seem to have a lot of resentment
towards your lot in life, which is perhaps understandable, but it WILL
eat you up. I just learned to let go and let God a long time ago and
understand what is truly important in my short life here. Are you
religious at all?
abrowne
Subject: [odspfireside: 38841 ] Re: What I See Coming - The Future of ODSP
erekale...@gmail.com
I can do all that – I am expected to within 30 days
Some days I have to make 20 calls to odsp, ministries etc policy writers – just to correct s stupid common sense mistake
Emails – biz 10-15, ODSP 10
Big court case over another ODSP inefficiency
Wrte letters to ODSP - have to hand deliver them to get hem stamped
Do my accounting , my business accounting, and do another different set of accounting for odsp and then correct their inability to do accounting
My marketing
My website
All by myself
With a disability
While not allowed to hire help
While being called a lazy fraud
While I watch my health diminish because I am pushing myself too hard (80% effort to deal with ODSP chaos) and miss my kids and ask myself why I bought into the lie.
Abrowne…listen I truly wish it were different – that this program worked – but I feel like I got myself trapped – I took the bait believing I could pull up my boot straps , over come my illness and be a productive member of society
My life expectancy is already greatly reduced by my illness…how do I explin to my children that of the few available productive hours I have I waste it correcting a bad system while it kills me faster…
You see now that I started I cannot stop because I have to maintain my obligations and if I try to slow down I will suffer financially due to ODSP’s twilight zone accounting
Angela,
At least you reply t
On 04/08/2011 9:03 PM, abrowne wrote:
erekale...@gmail.com
I am learning about websites right now– then I have to organize it like a tight ship…all proof…all in order all with a poiunt
Then it is going to the media and to anywhere…
If I can I will contribute huge….
Hard to do when I have to do what I outline I have to do today…in reply to someone else speaking about how hard the oDSP employees have it
Really I need a team of people to get this all together…
I might just start on one issue at atime who knows – first I have to make my mortgage payment and feed my kids….
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of justice4odsp
Wow, thanks for the education.
I knew something was funny because no matter how I cut it, things never add up. Now I know why. There was something funny about how they were doing things.
You should submit this stuff to the media if you feel up to it - either that, or write a Blog. A free location is www.blogspot.com. It's Google based.
justice4odsp
On 04/08/2011 10:21 PM, erekale...@gmail.com wrote:
I could write abook on how to make things easier with tips and trick to
remain compliant without succumbing to the avalanche of extra work and
hurdles they put in front of you - given my ten years - but in the end I
;;;;;erekale...@gmail.com
point of view held by the unexperienced in being disabled while ignoring the
original purpose and intent of the Employment Supports Program - to
subsidize ODSP! That is what it is really for. But somehow through
enforcement most odsp recipients are not seeing a great financial bbenefit
while odsp is clawing back:
"I don't like this eating your cake and having it too."
Ok so let me get this straight:
You expect someone who has a medically determined disability with
incapacities that render them not able to work as a regular person - why
they are eligible for support...
To
Compete with the able bodied healthier business person or employee
On an equal playing field?
I agreed to subsidize ODSP by agreeing to work when my doctors and even one
ODSP director said you should take the support payments and focus on
surviving and possibly getting well....
The statement sews up your alliance to the ignorant (uninformed and
inexperienced ) view point:
. If you wanted to be treated by normal CRA deductions
and have ODSP out of your small business, then your income should be
supporting your family on it's own, just like any other family
business.
That is like saying or so you want to be treated like everyone else even
though you have a wheel chair - well then don't expect accessibility - able
bodied people don't need wheel chair ramps - why should you have your cake
and eat it too - - - faulty logic sorry to say...might as well say to
someone there is no rehabilitation for prisoners either - who cares if they
realize they made a mistake and some causes might have been background and
upbringing beyond their control - just execute everyone and be done with it
- forget this whole reintegration approach -
In fact you sound like a policy writer I once spoke to - who had never been
disabled and when I asked her
"ok so what your saying is I should ignore the disability.....ignore my
health limitation - operate as everyone as else who is healthy ....so then
I am expected to compete with said healthy business person with less
capability and available work time (work without the use of my eyes or arms,
or the ability to breath properly - while risking heart failure at any given
moment due to condition causing environment in my body that puts me at huge
risk) for the same jobs competitively with the healthy to support myself.
To repeat -
Employment Supports was really set up to subsidize ODSP by (the bait)
allowing us to augment our income and help us to reitengrate to society and
become self reliant - I see the claw backs - I do not see that it has been
worth it for me - spo at least ODSP wins.
Disabled can do a lot but there is a reason for Special Olympics - in fact
there is even men's events and womens event s in real Olympics - which isn't
a discrimination - it is a reality based different level of operating
We all have different strengths and weaknesses
From each what they can
to each what they need
should be the maxim of a civilized society
anything else is selfish immaturity based on ego
grow up beyond me to we
I complain about ODSP but I am looking at it from a point of view of we are
all in this together and all a part of it...there is no separation in
society of the individual as society and individuals both affect one another
- unless you take the execute them all and let god sort them out approach..
Just points of thought to consider....
-----Original Message-----
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Jennifer Manley
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 10:08 AM
To: ODSP Fireside
Jennifer Manley
ODSP, am self-employed, contribute to society as I can and don't whine
about how unfair life is (as I was raised). I found Jesus and the
Peace that only He can provide. I can live a life without bitterness
and truly appreciate His presence in all. If that upsets you then I
don't believe I am the closed minded one here.
On Aug 6, 12:19 pm, <erekalexand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Must be an ODSP advocate or employee blindly touting a common and ignorant
erekale...@gmail.com
I just wonder why you are so dismissive ofothers yourself - good case of tea
pot versus kettle
Whining and poitnig out are two different things - just because someone
points out that there is something really wrong and it needs to be addressed
and they are frustrated at how ridiculous it is when by normal circumstances
it is an easy to solve problem...
Obviously you found Jesus and ODSP and only the peace they can provide
You assume that everyone else here was not raised to whine about how unfair
life is?
You assume everyone else here does nto contribute as much as they can?
No one else found God?
No one elese appreciates His presence in all? and no one else can live a
life without bitterness?
No it does not upset it - it makes no sense that you are saying this after
passing judgement (not accepting His presence in all) - contradiction
Cake and eat it too eh....:)
Close minded....:)
Find his presence in everyone here and every concern and every life story
and tell me about close minded after that...
Bitter :)
Instead of understanding or being understanding of others...and contributing
to the solution, you jump on the attack of thsose who are trying to suss out
the situation through discussions that do include sharing and venting to
tell them
Basically
Get off your buts and don't expect to have you cake and eat it too...
Abandoning the purpose - to try to make improvements in one another's life
by educating one another about the problems experienced , and what we cn do
to be comliant and fololow the rules despite our CSR not even knowing them,
what we can do for ourselves,
Some of here truly and unfortunately depend on ODSP and have few or no other
options --- I believe that it will not last...but it is not because of
whining....
More the case of turning a blind eye
Are all those who have gone before to end descrimintaion aginst women, by
race, torture, etc a bunch of whiners and complainers who just didn’t love
jesus? Or did they love jesus enough to take a stand and make a change...
Why do some people who find Jesus feel they can ignore common sense and the
responsibility to correct real life issues?
Abuse, mistakes, systemic problems do not go away when everyone prays to
god....let alone turn a blind eye - even god needs your permission to act in
any way through you in your life -
"Faith without work is meaningnless" faith without action is meaningless -
all the faith will not change things in this world - faith and action will..
Maybe you are able to survive without it as it is a convenience for you that
you really do not need.
I even wonder if you read the whole letter I wrote with an open mind?
Here is a test - try to argue my point for me, see if you really understand
what I am saying
-----Original Message-----
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Jennifer Manley
justice4odsp
accountancy postings, or the need to have an extra pair of hands to help
you with certain parts of your self-employment job.
Personally, after doing a major investigation, becoming self-employed
makes no sense for me. I use a wheelchair, would be expected to visit
clients in a location of their choosing, and this may not be accessible.
Further, to learn about doing all the paper work for the government to
report tax earnings, and all the other business type of transactions
(without the benefit of being able to afford to go back to school to
learn it) I have decided that all my job applications must go toward
working for someone else.
As for bitterness, I don't have it. I just have a determination to make
sure people don't suffer for reasons that are out of their control.
justice4odsp