ODSP violation of Human Rights and recipient abuse

[Malcolm53]

Today Marsha submitted a post that really needs more attention. Her
post was sent as a reply to a topic that may not be seen by everyone so
I am starting a new topic with a better subject tag hoping to draw more
attention and a larger interest. The origonal post was:

*****************************
Why must we be treated like pieces of garbage by the staff at ODSP?
Most of the employees haven't bothered to read the Act or the
Directives but they all learn how to humiliate, frustrate and anger the
recipients. I am so tired of being treated with absolutely no respect,
no hint that I am a human being. I am tired of not being understood and
English is my mother tongue. I'm tired of misinformation, no
information, being run in circles and plain ignored. My blood pressure
must be thru the roof at this moment. Do they ever wonder why they must
sit behind bullet proof glass? I can not continue my life if it means I
have to have this B********s in it. How do I cope with this insanity? I
am sick, I am disabled BUT I AM STILL A HUMAN BEING. How do I make
these people understand this?
Marsha
*****************************

[shelly75]

When I get treated this way or feel they are being rude i ask directly
for a supervsior, that usually shuts them up. I did have issues once
when they first sent my approval letter and sent it to me ex wtf???
well i was told i had to bring my rent reciept in to prove where i
lived and then the worker told me "well you must have just moved to
this address it was mailed too" i told her very loud and very clear "I
am bipolar not dumb i think i know where I live" she got very quiet and
got the supervsior

[Malcolm53]

Marsha:

Unfortunately until we can bring the province around to understanding
that they have created a MONSTER called ODSP. We must stand together
as a united group and DEMAND our Human Rights be honoured and the ODSP
Monster be tamed. If we will not stand up for ourselves to the best of
our abilities then how should we expect others to do it for us.

The extremely ironic point is that ODSP officials KNOW that they have a
monster that is protected by legislation and the OPSEU. There
currently is a rework being done inside ODSP to attempt improving
service levels to recipients. This initiative is covered by the "ODSP
DELIVERY FRAMEWORK - A NEW FRAMEWORK FOR SERVICE DELIVERY" project.
There is a copy of this project available in Word 97 and PDF formats
available on the ODSP Action Coalition web site at:
http://www.odspaction.ca/download/ODSP Delivery Framework.doc
http://www.odspaction.ca/download/ODSP Delivery Framework.pdf

We have had many challenges working with ODSP as well, most of the
items we have requested have had to be challenged to an internal review
or sent to the SBT before we received them. Last week we again had
another direct example of how ODSP CSR's operate. We had cancelled our
Bell Canada telephone service and made the big jump to VoIP. Low and
behold now we do not have access to the front door intercom as in our
building you must have an active Bell line to use the intercom. As
timing would be great a member of the ODSP Action Coalition had made a
post that ODSP would cover the costs of telephone service in this
instance. I made the call to our CSR and asked the direct question
about assistance for Bell service for building security use and was
told EMPHATICALLY that there was no such assistance available in any
form!!
Yes you guessed it - Directive 6.2 and 9.5 both directly address this
point and spellout the assistance that is available, including
connection fees.

There is no wonder why none of the recipients trust what we are told by
CSR's and at this point any recipient who blindly accepts the
statements of a CSR is thourly taken advantage of.

[abrowne]

This is one of the problems

__________________________________________________
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[abrowne]

Bette,

This is one of the problems with ODSP and any so-called government programs.  People who never had to rely on them know absolutely nothing that goes on with them; they just complain about taxes being paid and so forth. What is seriously needed and I am determined to see what others think.  Some folks around here have spoke about an ODSP Defense Fund, which would be raised through various fundraising ventures and the money used to pay folks like me to take these issues to various boards, tribunals, etc. and to publicize this damage to the rights of people in various media.  The average 'middle class' person knows absolutely nothing about what goes on with those who are not 'middle class'. 

In my own community, there are middle class presently types trying to push the city to cut back on transit because they see it as a waste because "everybody has cars", when they have no clue what's going to happen to people when they get older, or disabled and so forth.  I have been putting through some letters to the editor when I've had time, pointing out obvious flaws in our system in as timely manner as possible.  Ignorant people have also made comments that people with disabilities can be looked after by charities like they were in the 1950's etc.  Yeah, do we really want to be charity cases?  It is a big fight ... a major battle ... and something we're going to have to put thousands and thousands of people behind and make it public and timely.

Angela

---

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[abrowne]

I apologize for this.  I am not used to some of the stuff I have in my computer now - firewall, various tracking devices, etc. and it tends to interrupt my typing flow.  The actual post should follow ;-(

---

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[Marsha]

I asked for the supervisor and was hung up on. I called back and again asked
for a supervisor and was hung up on again.
Marsha

[Marsha]

Bette

What I find most frustrating in my dealings with or about ODSP is that by virtue of me being a recipient I have NO CREDIBILITY. I was on home care last year and thru them hooked up with a social worker. She now deals with ODSP on behalf. The insulting thing is I have to supply her with all the info pertaining to the Act and Directives. I feel as though I could send a child into the ODSP office and have them say the exact same things I've said, and the child would be treated with more dignity and BELIEF. But then what else should I expect? Afterall I'm a recipient and therefore I'm guilty. Even if I say hello, it's wrong. My body is sick. My mind is fine. The university education I received is still intact. However in the eyes of the ODSP workers I'm no matter than the bums who "choose" to sleep on the streets. Of course I did sleep in my car for 4mos a few years ago thanks to the wonderful souls at ODSP.

Marsha

[Marsha]

Angela

I didn't think I had a choice but to be a charity case. As long as ODSP pays such a ridiculous monthly income I have no choice but to turn to charities.

Marsha

[Malcolm53]

To All:

I have reworked the links. I broke the first rule and forgot to put
underscores between the words.

Please use the following links:

For the Framework in Word 97 format use:
http://www.odspaction.ca/download/ODSP_Delivery_Framework.doc

For the Framework in PDF format use:
http://www.odspaction.ca/download/ODSP_Delivery_Framework.pdf

Sorry for the inconvience this has caused.
Blessings
Malcolm

[Marsha]

Am I supposed to be impressed with this (ODSP Delivery Framework)? I'm not.
I've only read the first 15 pages. I'd like to comment so far.
I find it unfortunate that the workers are feeling stressed and the union
fears this may lead to them becoming sick. Perhaps they will become so sick
they'll have to wind up on the very benefits that they find so stressing to
administer.
I also cringe every time I read the letters CVP. I had my CVP a couple of
months ago. I made them come to my house so I could throw them out when they
became offensive. I take great exception to being told the CVPs are to
ensure we are getting the appropriate benefits. It is to try to find ways to
get us off the system. When I received the list of documents they wanted to
see I was so insulted. Even I could come up with some of those documents I
would be disqualified from ODSP so fast my head would spin. Example - they
wanted a list of all my stocks and bonds. Give me a break.
If they really want to learn how to decrease their stress level and provide
PROPER service why don't they ask us? Of course they can't do that. We are
just a bunch of brainless lazy idiots.
Excuse my sarcasm and cynicism. ODSP brings out the best in me.
You know before we talk about an increase in benefits, why don't we deal
with getting them to treat us like intelligent human beings aka clients. If
it wasn't for us they wouldn't have jobs.
Marsha
Marsha

[abrowne]

Bette,

Many Legal Aid lawyers do not *know* the laws that impact on people with disabilities - period. I have seen and had to undo damage by lawyers in specific circumstances where general law meets disability/administrative law.  Many lawyers for example will do accident benefit claims - something I also do - but many lawyers do as well.  Say, a lawyer settles a claim for $80,000, and the client is on ODSP.  The lawyer has no idea that in most cases, a general settlement of this type would end up back in ODSP's back pocket.  However, whenever I settle my own clients' claims if they happen to be on ODSP is that the wording of the settlement agreement is specifically geared to minimize payback to the system.  It makes no difference to the payor what the monies are for or how they are arrived at -- the same amount comes out of their pocket, but I have found so many people who have gotten screwed by settlements by not having the settlement drafted properly to protect their ODSP or OW benefits.

 

Another example are lawyers who are experienced with dealing with benefits under the Insurance Act trying to fight for a client's rights and entitlements to ODSP, WSIB, OW, etc. all of which operate very differently than general LTD benefits, for example.  Another key issue is that Legal Aid severely limits not only the rate of pay, but the number of hours a lawyer can bill for a case.  I have seen horrendous situations where lawyers were not properly covered for the time it would actually take to prepare for a good case - and as a result, they don't put as much effort into it.  Legal clinic lawyers tend to be better versed on disability/administrative issues, but they are often very limited as to what types of cases they can do due to limited resources.

 

There are providers like myself on the scene as well, but I cost money - maybe not as much as an average lawyer, but there are people who cannot even afford to pay me.  So I have to restrict my cases to where I am able to obtain payment from a third party source (e.g. retro payments for ODSP-CPP, insurance settlements or a family/friend who can pay fees), or take cases where there are more upfront payments given (litigation, for example).  I have done some pro bono work, but because I am the sole provider for a family of four, I really can't afford to do a lot of that.  There has to be some kind of plug to fill in the gaps left by lawyers who do not understand disability/administrative law, lawyers who can only work four hours on a case that takes ten hours to prepare for, and my type of services where they may be no capacity to build in a third party payer.  That is where I think a Defense Fund would serve a purpose.

Bette Hawley <boowho...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not all Legal Aid lawyers will have the passion  to 'right a wrong' so to speak.  The recipient might be able to win a few points, but the underlying issues might not be addressed or rectified.  Like you expressed, you're willing to go the extra mile and fight the cause with 'grassroots passion' because you've been there and you know first-hand the frustration and helplessness a recipient feels when faced with the horror of some of ODSP's decisions. 

I, too, would like to see a Defence Fund whereby paralegals could help ODSP recipients through the hurdles of launching an appeal, or better yet, intervene between the recipients and the Income Support Specialists, so that communication is clear and that the wool doesn't get pulled over the eyes of the recipients (to put it politely).  I wouldn't mind seeing a topic opened up on Fireside to look at this prospect.  I know that several people have talked about this before - I would love to see something concrete come out of this. 

---

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

[Marsha]

Bette

Well said. But there must be something we can do to change this. These people are breaking the laws - both the laws of the the ODSP act as well as the human rights laws. We have to find a way to put an end to this.

Marsha

[Roman Kowalczuk]

> We ARE treated with a total lack of dignity by ODSP workers.

I have not experienced anything quite that bad. Sometimes I have
a sense that things vary a bit, but that's common to many large
organizations (for example the telephone company) where one rep
may have a certain viewpoint, but if you call back a few minutes
later, the next rep might see things in a different way.

Roman

[Rosie]

I have never had that problem either. The closest I came was a couple years
ago when I misplaced my drug card and called to have a replacement sent to
my pharmacy. The woman cautioned me to be very careful with it and not lose
it again - even though I had never lost one before. But, I have never had
them be rude to me.

Rosie

[abrowne]

Hi,

Is anybody aware of the rumour that the Ministry is planning to change the definition of disability for ODSP?  This was relaid to a friend of mine by a legal clinic lawyer at a meeting; I am not sure how true this is or where her source was. 

But if it is, we need to look at how to cut it off at the top before it starts ... the purpose of this change would obviously be to kick some people off ODSP and make it harder for others to get on. 

The idiotic thing is I just went through a major consultation with the Liberals about this - that there are some people whose health interests are best served by never having to go on OW in the first place, as I see how it affects people (e.g. one of my guys is in jail now because he broke a few windows - frustrated that he can't find a place to live while he is not getting the shelter portion of his OW benefits, another man ended up in the psych ward ...).

Thoughts?

Angela

[abrowne]

Roman,

In terms of personal experience during my 'term' on ODSP, the only thing I am aware of that bothered me was the fact one cannot make more than a piddly bit of money before they get taxed back 75% of their earnings, and that self-employed ODSP recipients can't use their earnings or their ODSP funds to hire part-time help, which forces some people with disabilities to put themselves into a risky situation by working more hours than they can tolerate ... or keeps them on ODSP forever.

[abrowne]

Hi Bette,

The trouble with Legal Clinics is they will not hire people like me.  First, they do not have the budget; they have been suffering from the same budget freezes and cutbacks as everybody else, and secondly, Legal Aid Ontario will never cover the costs of an Independent Paralegal. If I worked for somebody else, my bottom line must be at least $60,000 per year (which is the average income of families in Ontario - e.g. I am the sole earner for my family - if my husband ever worked and contributed, I will probably settle for about $40,000). The lawyers' lobby has ensured that Paralegals will not get paid directly from Legal Aid Ontario.

 

If I worked directly under the supervision of a Legal Aid lawyer, the lawyer can actually collect $23 per hour for my services (but they are nowhere obligated to even pay me near that much). In most cases, I would still only get paid minimally for my time ... as lawyers tend to squeeze more out of their staff, as staff costs are probably one of the few items left they have to control. I'll *never* work directly for a lawyer because to tell the truth, they cannot afford me.  I applied several times to the local legal clinics but they weren't able to hire me, as they were only budgeted for a Staff Lawyer both times.

 

Re ODSP regs, even among the Paralegals, there are only a few of us that have a clue about these issues.  Most Independent Paralegals are well versed in Small Claims, Landlord & Tenant and to some extent, Employment Standards Legislation.  I specialize in disability law; that is, the whole nine yards.  I provide assistance with ODSP, OW, EI, WSIB, SABS, CPP, LTD, Human Rights, Labour Board, etc.  I am registered online with FSCO to practice accident benefits (SABS) and deal with slip and falls.  To do this, one must be adequately insured, follow a Code of Conduct and not have a criminal record, etc.  I also deal with many issues the clinics won't touch, probably due to budget and time constraints.  I am presently dealing with one client who was refused a retroactive payment when he got on ODSP last year.  The clinic won't touch his case and told him to take his file over to me.

Bette Hawley <boowho...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Angela - Would an option be for paralegals to be hired by Community Legal Aid Clinics throughout Ontario?  Our Community Legal Aid lawyer was too busy to take on our case, so we got a referral to the Legal Aid Clinic downtown to see the lawyer you had recommended to us. If each clinic were to employ one paralegal at Legal Aid rates, it would serve the community very, very well ...

[Marsha]

Bette

I don't care whether it's a lawyer or a paralegal that Legal Aid pays. I would just like to see Legal Aid fund ODSP recipients so as we can get help with these morons at ODSP. Of course many of us have the knowledge and ability to deal with these people ourselves if only we were seen as people.

Marsha

----- Original Message -----

From: Bette Hawley

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 8:37 PM

Subject: Reply: Re: ODSP violation of Human Rights and recipient abuse

Hi Angela - I had heard a few years back that lawyers did not want paralegals to become recognized as bona fide alternatives to hiring a lawyer.  But I thought that got ironed out., seeing that some paralegals are now working hand-in-hand with lawyers. 

The problem is ODSP recipients usually don't have the money to hire a paralegal, even at the best of times.  I don't know what the solution is other than to put pressure on Legal Aid to give some of the business to paralegals.  If I ever become active in the ODSP Action Coalition, I'd push for this change.

If people are being encouraged to become paralegals, then society should open up and welcome them by making a fair playing field.  Why can't paralegals get  paid by Legal Aid?  It would save the Legal Aid fund money in the long run, seeing that most lawyers aren't really interested in ODSP cases anyway.

All the best - Bette

[abrowne]

 

Bette,

First, the $23 per hour that Legal Aid "might" pay me wouldn't even begin to cover my office expenses; second, we are currently under threat of the Law Society regulating us (think foxes, chicken coops ...), and third, I have no interest in being employed by a lawyer - I cannot survive on what they will likely pay me and they would expect me to be their secretary too (when I have minimal secretarial skills due to my disability).

 

The only paralegals working hand in hand with lawyers that I know are either employed by them or do specific things like title searches, research, etc.  That doesn't buy my way out of poverty either, nor will it buy any of my clients out of trouble as again, most lawyers don't know about ODSP, poverty issues, etc.  If anything, I would advocate more for a model like the Office of the Worker Advisor, for example, for WSIB ... that would hire paralegals like me (at a decent salary).  I can then provide province-wide training and so forth.

Bette Hawley <boowho...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Angela - I had heard a few years back that lawyers did not want paralegals to become recognized as bona fide alternatives to hiring a lawyer.  But I thought that got ironed out., seeing that some paralegals are now working hand-in-hand with lawyers. 

The problem is ODSP recipients usually don't have the money to hire a paralegal, even at the best of times.  I don't know what the solution is other than to put pressure on Legal Aid to give some of the business to paralegals.  If I ever become active in the ODSP Action Coalition, I'd push for this change.

__________________________________________________

[Malcolm53]

Marsha:
TheFramework was not sent out to impress but to point out some of the
areas that ODSP even knows are a problem and to show the hyprocracy
within the system about dealing with us.

It was also sent as a glimmer of hope that something, no matter how
small, good may come out of it. We are supposed to be included in
consideration for input as outlined toward the end but I highly doubt
that any of us will ever hear a thing. I did leave a request to be
notified for contact about the Framework but I suppose like most things
I will need to place the request more than once.

I am not sure what has happened at my office with my CSR but there has
been a hugh change in our interaction. I caught her in a hugh lie (the
lie grew out of her lack of knowledge of part of the act or being
mis-instructed by someone else) and instead of making an issue of it I
simply formally submitted my request with the legislation quoted for
support. I had not thought to forward any financial verifying
documents thought. I received a very polite phone call asking for
copies of some bills and a letter of confirmation. I encountered
difficulties receiving the letter and sent an email correspondence that
included the verification in the intruim. With in 4 days I had my
request homoured in full without being pressed for the formal letter.
Then this week I submitted the request for Tenants Insurance Assistance
but had omitted the details of one charge. I received the most
enjoyable telephone call for verification of the missing informaion and
my request was approved wihtin 24 hours.

If all of our interactions with ODSP CSR's were like this just think of
how drastically our attitude would change and how much better our lives
would be, we would still be proverty stricken but at least we would
feel like someone in government actually gives a hoot.

Malcolm

[Malcolm53]

Hi Marsha:

I would like to attempt to simplify some of the problems around
recipients not being able to get legal assistance covered for our
general fights with ODSP.

While the process of getting Legal Aid sounds and seems confusing it
really is quite well defined. (Angela, if I make a goof-up here please
come to my rescue ;-) We are all quite familiar with the American
Maranda Rigths phrase - 'If you cannot afford a lawyer one will be
appointed at no charge'. We Canada has a similar system that was
fought for and given just as hard. Both of these 'Legal Rights to
Council' however are only extended to defending oneself against charges
brought by the representatives of the Law of the Land. In Canada that
would be the 'Crown Attorney'. So in short if you are facing legal
proceedings where you are being procecuted by the 'Crown Attorney' you
are guarenteed legal representation and council. To facilitate this
end Legal Aid was formed.

If on the other hand you are beginning the legal proceedings against a
crown entity then the whole concept of needing legal council for
protection from undue process does not apply. Simply put, If the
government comes after you they will provide you with defense
assistance but if you go after the government you are on your own.

Enter Community Legal Clinics - It was evident that too many
underprovledged citizens were being 'taken advantage of' as it was felt
safe to do so because they did not posess the means to 'stand up for
themselves' and demand that the injustice be corrected. This problem
had become such an epidemic of acceptance that it was plainly evident
something had to change. Legal Aid could provide no assistance as this
area of law was totally outside their mandate and reason for existance.
Community Legal Clinics we set up around the province to perform just
those services. I am not versed on the history of CLCs by they are
funded voluntairly and have limited resources to work with. This does
make the amount of assistance that they provide very limited and
selective, but they are still available for consultation.

The monster that Harris created and labelled ODSP is just that, a
Monster. There are many working very hard trying to find ways to
domesticate this monster and the proposed Framework is just one effort.
Our valiant dragonslayers have been sidetracked by mansions and all
those pretty perks and have forgotten about the fair maidens of the
land who still need protection from being burned up, singed, mauled,
eaten, stepped on or otherwise abused by the monster.

It really is time that the monster be properly put to rest and a new
domesticated burden carrier be found. The ODSP has soo many flaws,
holes, weaknesses, violations of other laws that it really cannot hold
water any longer and the small patches we are receiving are not raising
it any higher out of the murky waters it has drifted into.

But in the interum we must NEVER loose sight of the fact that ODSP is a
far cry from the work houses and poor houses of Mr. Scrooge's time. We
are blessed with what we have but that is not to say that we should not
expect everything that we are promissed to receive under the laws of
Ontario and Canada. Todays society demands that everyone work inorder
to remain on a even keel with the services provided on Ontario. There
are always exemptions like the few who are fortunate enought to make
over 6 figure incomes yearly can manage to support a family alone. But
for the majority it takes two incomes for a family to live and be
active participants in Ontario society. Blame it on the Unions, Big
Business, government, greed or what ever today's 'standard of living'
in Ontario is out of reach of the 'standard' citizen living on minimum
wage or worse yet on government assistance.

Better kick my soap box aside as I am getting too far afield. More to
come in future posts though... and on the web site...

Blessings.
Malcolm

[ellen forgeron]

hi malcom53

 nice to find all thes folks in similar circumstances ...well not nice to find us all in these circumstances but hope you know what i mean. got a story you may be able to help find a resolution to. i recently needed new dentures..called odsp ...i was told i was not covered for this...after a bit of whining on my part i was told that ow has discretionary for this purpose. my friend who is on odsp in another area also needed dentures and i told her how i went about it. even said she could use my name....well the response she got was ...we don't do this..ow in this area does not do this....she was so frustrated with the system ..i feel very bad for her ...she has just had her second breast removed (cancer) and is currently on chemo ....lost all her hair...and her dentures are bad....she is however very positive even after all of this. wish there was a way to help....i'm sure this is not the only story you've heard but it needs to be heard by everyone who thinks we on odsp are living the high life free from worry and care    thanks for listening my friend.......schooner

Malcolm53 <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Marsha]

Malcolm
I have sent many a letter quoting the pertinent section of the Act and/or
Directives but to no avail. It seems my English comprehension is greatly
lacking. As I have always said the first thing I'd like to see changed with
respect to ODSP is how I am treated. That would at least make the poverty I
live in somewhat bearable. What is the Tenants Insurance Assistance?

Marsha


----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm53" <malc...@gmail.com>
To: <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 7:49 AM
Subject: Reply: Re: ODSP violation of Human Rights and recipient abuse


>

[Marsha]

I had 2 teeth removed last year. ODSP paid for the dentures. Of course what they neglected to tell me that they pay either for the temporary ones you need for 3 months till the swelling goes down or the permanent ones. They will also pay for new dentures every 3 yrs. As for OW, their discretionary benefits vary from region to region. This I find not only unfair but by accident discovered it is also illegal. The federal government stipulates that neither welfare benefits can not vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. However when I brought this to the attention of OW I was told they are municipal and therefore do not have to abide by any federal laws. Very interesting interpretation. Does that mean that I can opt of various laws as I deem fit?

Marsha

----- Original Message -----

From: ellen forgeron

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:32 AM

Subject: Reply: Re: ODSP violation of Human Rights and recipient abuse

[abrowne]

This is one of the big beefs I have.  If I make just over $22,000 - $25,000 a year (net) my husband gets cut off ODSP; he ends up with NO money.  I can't make more than that amount unless I push myself for 60- 80 hours a week, which is not going to happen.  Why do families not have the right to pull in two incomes without being treated as one?  Why can't a disabled spouse of a working spouse not keep part of their benefits regardless of how much the other person earns?

Malcolm53 <malc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Todays society demands that everyone work in order to remain on a even keel with the services provided on Ontario. There are always exemptions like the few who are fortunate enought to make over 6 figure incomes yearly can manage to support a family alone. But for the majority it takes two incomes for a family to live and be

active participants in Ontario society.

__________________________________________________

[peeebbbles]

I have never had odsp workers be rude with me in any way and maybe it's
just because I haven't run into someone who was in a bad mood. The
workers are under a lot of strain and some don't have the training to
deal with stress. I hear a lot of stories and feel bad when I do.
I have been on odsp for 19 years and never had a run in with any and I
had seen at least 20 different workers throughout that period.
Donna

[peeebbbles]

Charmine, I agree with you that I don't know which ones they will kick
off with the new definition of disability. When I heard it, it made me
wonder too if they are going to review all of us. Have a good day.
Donna

[ste...@idirect.com]

>Is anybody aware of the rumour that the Ministry is planning to
>change the definition of disability for ODSP?

No.

Roman, Toronto

[Rosie]

I doubt they will kick anyone off. Remember when Harris brought in the new
critera and he grandfathered those already on it? McGuinty would do the
same, it would not go over well if he started kicking people off left, right
and centre.

Rosie

[abrowne]

Bette,

Right, there has to be something separate.  I burn out now and then from working, even though I am self-employed.  This is why I am restructuring the business, as my caseload is growing and I am not able to respond to the growing needs of the business (because ODSP won't let me use my earnings or other monies to pay a part-time staff to assist me with files).  I have very definite plans for challenging this kangaroo court and trap they put many people in ... it is a work in progress.  I already told my MPP that I will expect a large chunk of change from them for all the trouble they have put me through over this and yes, I probably will ... but it will go about in its own time.  I don't lose.

 

As for the spousal, right now I can't even afford to give my husband a bus pass each month, or pay for most of the school trips and supplies my children need.  I say, regardless of what I make, he should keep some of his benefits ... so then, I would start having the decency of having a two-income family, which seems to me to be the only way to get out of poverty, unless I got a job that paid me $50,000 a year or more.

Bette Hawley <boowho...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Angela - What a trap, eh?  If the spouse of an ODSP recipient earns more than the total amount of the recipient's benefits - the recipient is cut off ODSP.  This is so precarious.  Imagine if the couple were to break up?  The disabled partner would be left with no income and no support infrastructure.  It's absolutely unfair.  Also, what if the working partner gets burned out and can't keep up the pace of a 9 - 5 job? 

[abrowne]

This is true with me too.  I get along with almost anybody over there at the office across the street from me.  I think they know better not to meddle with things with me.  I also always treat all the workers with kindness and dignity, even when I am blasting them for a policy or a mistake they've made.  They're only human, which is what goes through my head.  My key issues are the actual policies, which the workers do not control anyways.  I intend to attack them one by one, esp. as I get clients in the office with these issues and I will simply take them to the top.

peeebbbles <cpea...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

I have never had odsp workers be rude with me in any way and maybe it's
just because I haven't run into someone who was in a bad mood. The

[abrowne]

Donna,

All I can say is this was conjecture.  It was brought up at a meeting and raised by a Legal Aid Lawyer.  A friend of mine who I often chat with about such things was also at that meeting, so a lot of this can just be stuff bandied about as 'trial balloons'.  Governments often pick the summer to float these things around to get a reaction because most people aren't paying attention, or so they think.  If this is indeed the case, we can gear up like they did in BC and have the proposal put to shreds like it did over there.

peeebbbles <cpea...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

[peeebbbles]

ellen forgeron wrote:
> hi malcom53
> nice to find all thes folks in similar circumstances ...well not nice to find us all in these circumstances but hope you know what i mean. got a story you may be able to help find a resolution to. i recently needed new dentures..called odsp ...i was told i was not covered for this...after a bit of whining on my part i was told that ow has discretionary for this purpose. my friend who is on odsp in another area also needed dentures and i told her how i went about it. even said she could use my name....well the response she got was ...we don't do this..ow in this area does not do this....she was so frustrated with the system ..i feel very bad for her ...she has just had her second breast removed (cancer) and is currently on chemo ....lost all her hair...and her dentures are bad....she is however very positive even after all of this. wish there was a way to help....i'm sure this is not the only story you've heard but it needs to be heard by everyone who thinks we on odsp are living the
> high life free from worry and care thanks for listening my friend.......schooner

Hi there. Your friend who needs the dentures should go over their
heads to the next level of authority and explain the issue and tell
them she was turned down for coverage of dentures by OW and they should
see to it she gets her correct entitlement which is $400 for the upper
ones and $400 for the lower ones. Don't let it go she is entitled and
it is something that has to be fought for. I hope this helps. Donna

[Dave Walker]

I can tell you people right now that if they start kicking people off
ODSP for NO good reason (except for fraud and other legitimate reasons
of course), then there is going to be HELL to pay. It would be an
extremely unwise move on the part of Mr. McGuinty and his government to
start butchering an already butchered and botched program. Don't
forget, we've got names like Helen Henderson who is a big-wig over at
the Toronto Star on our side too. I think these are mostly just nasty
rumours going around. However, maybe this is the also the reason they
are currently updating everyone? I wouldn't put anything past the
government. I rememeber when last year, there were stories going
around that the Province was considering discontinuing the dental
benefits, as well as seriously scaling back the drug card! They
supposedly backed off that plan when they realized just how negative of
an implication it was going to have on our already marginalized members
of society...(it would also have been political suicide on their part).
If anything, the government needs to stop wasting so much money on
these nonsensical "support programs", and concentrate on raising the
monthly allowances. What good are these so-called "programs" anyway
since most on ODSP won't be able to attend them? It's just another
"band-aid" solution that doesn't solve the REAL issue here--the serious
lack of funding for those on disability. And most of the clients that I
see have been "grandparented" from FBA as well. The one lady I tend to
has been on disability for nearly 20 years, and aside from her
occassional updates (sometimes she's gone years without having one),
there hasn't been any problem for her, but I DO know of other clients
with some real horror stories. Personally, I don't see any changes on
the horizon anytime soon, positive or negative--at least not yet
anyway.

Dave

[sur...@yahoo.ca]

I just went thru a review meetig and i was honest with her I do work
p/t and can take home $500 a day some times. I don't work hard it's
just a game of hurry up and wait untill you are needed. I have sat
arond for 8 hrs doing nothing on 3x pay. Last time I worked I was
payed 12hr @ about $37 hr (1.5X reg) I worked for real about 5 hours
driving. I only work p/t 3 months of the year. I had to take the last
month off because of the heat. But I will be nailed to the wall in a
month, and then I will rot on my couch alone waiting for death. There
is no way out of this trap at all. You make some extra money and they
take 75% of it away. They don't know how to read time sheets. I might
get payed for 35 hrs for 1 days work, because of overtime, but they say
the time sheet is wrong! 35 hrs must mean I worked a full week. No it
meens that they don't understand the union pay rules. And they now will
phone the union and as about the pay rules and then the union willo
find out I am bi polar and lose my p/t job. If that happens life is
over for good!!!!
al