Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[abrowne]

For those that want to know about special diet issues:

 

http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/programs/social/questions/special_diet_faq.aspx

 

Changes Coming to the Special Diet Allowance - Frequently Asked Questions

What’s happening with the Special Diet Allowance?

Ontario is revising the Special Diet Allowance to make it more accountable to taxpayers and compliant with the recent Order of the Human Rights tribunal of Ontario.

By revising the allowance, the province will help social assistance recipients who have eligible medical conditions receive the special diets they need to help manage their conditions.

The Special Diet Allowance will be one of a broad range of targeted benefits that will be considered in the context of Ontario’s comprehensive social assistance review, which begins January 2011.

What changes is the government making to the Special Diet Allowance?

Changes are informed by the recommendations of the Special Diets Expert Review Committee and the findings of the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario. Changes include:

• removing conditions that the Special Diets Expert Review Committee found to not require a special diet that involves additional costs
• requiring recipients to consent to the release of relevant medical information to support their application, and
• putting much stronger tracking methods in place, so the government can spot questionable trends earlier, and take appropriate action.

What do these changes mean for people who currently receive the Special Diet Allowance?

The changes mean that not everyone who currently receives the Special Diet Allowance will be eligible to continue receiving it.

People who are eligible to receive the Special Diet Allowance will need to apply under the revised schedule once new forms are available. All payments under the current schedule will end by July 31, 2011.

When will the revised Special Diet Allowance schedule be in place?

The revised Special Diet Allowance schedule will take effect on April 1, 2011. People who are eligible to receive the Special Diet Allowance under the revised schedule will have to submit a new application.

New application forms are expected to be available in February 2011. Current Special Diet Allowance recipients will be sent a copy of the new application form by mail.

All payments under the current schedule will end by July 31, 2011.

Which medical conditions will the revised schedule cover?

The revised schedule will include:

• Celiac Disease
• Chronic wounds and burns
• Conditions causing unintentional weight loss/body wasting:
• ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis also known as Lou Gehrig’s disease)
• Anorexia Nervosa
• Crohn’s Disease
• Cirrhosis
• Congestive Heart Failure
• Cystic Fibrosis
• HIV/AIDS
• Lupus
• Malignancy
• Multiple Sclerosis
• Ostomies [e.g. jejunostomy, ileostomy]
• Pancreatic Insufficiency
• Short Bowel Syndrome
• Ulcerative Colitis
• Diabetes
• Dysphagia requiring thickening liquids
• Extreme Obesity [BMI > 40]
• Food Allergy – Milk/Dairy
• Food Allergy – Wheat
• Gestational Diabetes
• Hypercholesterolemia
• Hyperlipidemia
• Hypertension
• Insufficient lactation to sustain breast-feeding or breast-feeding is contraindicated
• Lactose Intolerance
• Osteoporosis
• Renal Failure

Changes coming to the Special Diet Allowance

Ontario is changing the Special Diet Allowance. The changes will make the program more accountable and comply with the recent Order of the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario.

The changes include:

• removing conditions that the Special Diets Expert Review Committee found to not require a special diet allowance
• requiring recipients to consent to the release of relevant medical information to support their application, and
• putting stronger tracking systems in place to improve accountability.

The revised Special Diet Allowance schedule — the list of conditions eligible to receive a Special Diet Allowance — is informed by the recommendations of the Special Diets Expert Review Committee. This committee was composed of a variety of health experts and professionals from across Ontario, including:

• physicians
• registered nurses
• clinical dieticians
• academics with expertise in human nutrition and metabolism.

The Special Diet Allowance is one of many social assistance benefits that will be considered in the context of Ontario’s upcoming social assistance review.

When the changes take effect

The revised Special Diet Allowance schedule will take effect on April 1, 2011. People who are eligible to receive the Special Diet Allowance under the revised schedule will have to submit a new application.

New application forms are expected to be available in February 2011. Current Special Diet Allowance recipients will be sent a copy of the new application form by mail.

All payments under the current schedule will end by July 31, 2011.

 

[abrowne]

For those that forgot about the Expert Review,

 

here you can access a copy:

 

http://www.accesson.ca/documents/en/mcss/social/publications/special_diet_en.pdf

 

[anarchris]

i'm grateful they're not cancelling it entirely but irritable bowel
syndrome which is comparable to crohn's disease and yeast/sugar which
is comparable to wheat/dairy are not included in the new plan. i'm
thinking of applying to the ohrc on that basis like others did who got
a favourable ruling(e.g. multiple sclerosis etc). what are people's
thoughts as to its chances?
nrxs


>

[AMB]

It makes me sick.  Once the new diet is in place, it'll make me even sicker, quite literally.  I'm sure the same will happen to others.  It blows my mind that the figures they have used for this report comes from data that was collected in 1994-2007, just read the years listed under the reference heading.

[Chris Carey]

So, both morbid obesity (BMI 40+) and anorexia nervosa qualify for dietary supplements? Interesting logic. I can understand that sufferers of anorexia might need nutritional interventions that could be quite costly. However, supporting a person's morbid obesity at the cost of not funding other medical conditions is simply ridiculous.

Chris

[StarTears]

So, both morbid obesity (BMI 40+) and anorexia nervosa qualify for dietary supplements? Interesting logic.

Chris

it can be certainly argued that the current dietary supplimental allowance CAUSES obesity so they have to make a conscious admittance of that somehow, someway.  i think that this is it.  forcing people to buy the cheapest least nutritionally sound food possible for years regardless of their medical conditions [including diabetes- which causes insulin resistance which in turn causes extreme weight gain as well; in both types of diabetics which they do NOT differentiate between either on the special diet- $63 either kind].

when your life has to evolve completely around food choices, like when you are a type 1 diabetic like i am....when its something you cannot ever escape because timing and calculation is EVERYthing akin to breathing- really, you'd appreciate things much differently.  when you are up at times like this [2am] and you just had to force yourself to eat something but you never have the money to afford something easy for you to actually eat [rather would have had something like an glucerna- diabetic friendly ensure basically or even ensure or the pudding they have now instead of whole grain bread with peanut butter since i have had no appetite all day but i had to eat something before bed.  

so yes, both conditions are definately serious ones of our society today.  obesity [BMI  +40] has been on the diet form since it changed over to the condition by condition list by the way.  same with other eating disorders.

[abrowne]

Chris,

I am substantially overweight, all by stress which led on cholesterol
and then diabetes.  I would love to lose weight, but if you don't have
the money for produce and high fiber foods, you end up eating filling
foods that only add the fat and calories.  There was an addition to the
monies as a result of the human rights tribunal, but don't have the
figures in front of me.

Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>
To: "odspfi...@googlegroups.com" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 1:41:44 AM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 32930 ] Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[katkit]

Well, it is actually potentially good news for me. I have an
exceedingly rare auto-immune disorder that causes weight loss due to
bowel issues. It was not included in the old revision. I lost $250 a
month because the doctor could not just specify what I needed extra of
due do digestion issues. It could potentially mean that I could get
some money.

[Annie]

"[including diabetes- which causes insulin resistance which in turn
causes extreme weight gain as well; in both types of diabetics which
they do NOT differentiate between either on the special diet- $63 either
kind]".

I get $42.00 for type 2 diabetes!!!
not a lot of difference but that $20. would be nice!
Annie

[Robbie]

Dah!!
They are not supporting morbid obesity...they are supporting the
intake of enough good fruit/veg to lose the weight!

[Lorene]

I agree with you StarTears what you said.

Lorene

[Chris Carey]

Robbie,

That's absolutely illogical. If those of us within a healthy weight range are able to eat nutritiously then so can those suffering obesity. It's about choices, unless there are other medical factors to consider. You've inadvertently changed the discussion to what are the costs associated with eating healthy foods.

Everyone should have access to healthy alternatives. Obese people don't require larger quantities of the same kinds of foods as you and I eat, they require the SAME quantities. Therefore, to achieve healthy weights, we should all be eating the same quality and quantity of foods. This obviously means that for weight maintenance purposes costs are equal.

The essential point is this: I am presently a healthy weight and I don't require a special diet allowance. If I can afford to buy healthy foods to maintain a healthy weight than so can a comparatively obese person. This is very simple. For anyone who thinks that I'm being insensitive, or don't understand the issue, a decade ago I lost a significant amount of weight and have kept it off, even now as an ODSP recipient. I know what I'm talking about.

So, yes, the government is indeed supporting morbid obesity, and whats worse is that it will do so at the cost of funding other programs. How ridiculous!

Chris.

[Chris Carey]

Angela,

I'm sympathetic to your health concerns. Obviously, someone suffering weight related complications should be considered for special dietary assistance based on their individual medical needs. However, independently, obesity shouldn't entitle anyone to additional income support. If healthy eating is a unique financial burden, then shouldn't everyone be entitled to extra help? We should all be treated fairly and equally under the program. We should all have the equal right to the access of healthy foods.

Chris

[StarTears]

if it would be worth anything annie i would have had that looked into. both my doctor and nutritionist had the old suppliment for conditions that ODSP paid for per condition.  diabetes was not distinguished into any types except on the pregnancy allowance [which i see in the SDA form gestational is included as a separate condition now] so the $63 was for blanket diabetes; no specification of type 1 or 2.  which of course ALL of us though was completely ridiculous.  as far as all of us were concerned, diabetes should be one of the blanket conditions that auto-qualified for the full benefit of $250 right there since it is ONE that is completely revolving around diet in a particular way.

goes to show once again how the gov't thinks in bandaids to severed limbs to health care. 

[abrowne]

Chris,
I agree everybody should have access to healthy foods; that is the
Put Food in the Budget campaign, where each adult on assistance
would receive an additional $100 per month.  The special diet issue
is different.  Obesity is not a person's choice most of the time; it is
usually consequential to medical or psychiatric issues.

Psychiatric drugs alone lead to what is called metabolic syndrome,
whereas, they lead in themselves to increased bad cholesterol,
increased blood lipid levels and increased body mass index, which
is a precursor to diabetes.  Chris, you may have heard about the
class action suit against several drug companies that made
newfangled psych medications, where users ended up with a very
high rate of complications including obesity and diabetes.

Obesity is also secondary to certain forms of depression and anxiety.
High stress can lead to an increase in what are called cortisols in
your body, which react in such a way to substantially slow down
your body's metabolism, e.g. meaning your body burns less
calories and transforms more of it into fat cells.  I have a very
high stress level, secondary to PTSD.  While I am socially functional
(e.g. I am not going to choke people I see when I walk down the
street ;-) -- I have trouble with sleep, can get into panic attacks,
and have another problem related to my metabolism and hormones,
which is too complex to explain here.  Others have various problems
with their hormones, thyroid, polycystic ovary syndrome, etc.

These are treatable conditions, but obesity is difficult to treat w/o
a lot of help.  I know when I made good money, I was within normal
weight range.  I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted and
felt genuinely relaxed most of the time.  Now I cannot eat any white
or bleached flour of any kind (skip most of the bread group, except
for 100% whole grain or 12 grain with flax). Cereals must also be
whole wheat and high fibre and no sugar).  I cannot eat most foods
in cans, which are cheap but they are salt-laden.  If I want fresh
produce I either have to buy fresh or frozen organic.  I can have
desserts, but only if I have a good balance of protein and vegetable.

I can try to do more exercise, but it is unsafe in my community as
there are too many cyclists that drive on the sidewalks and most
of the time, I can only walk late at night, as I work all the time.
I got hit by a bike a few years back and I also suffer from sciatica
and cervical spondylitis, which makes it extremely difficult to get
out of the way when a cyclist is on the sidewalk - and most of the
time I can't hear them coming, as I am also hearing impaired.

Obesity is not something that results from a choice, no more than
say, somebody with anorexia or bulimia.  All of this needs help.
It's not extra food for obesity, but good quality food.
Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>
To: "odspfi...@googlegroups.com" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 11:39:51 AM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 32951 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[StarTears]

Psychiatric drugs alone lead to what is called metabolic syndrome,
whereas, they lead in themselves to increased bad cholesterol,
increased blood lipid levels and increased body mass index, which
is a precursor to diabetes.  

angela have you been to an endocrinologist to be tested for syndrome x at all?  its typically associated with type 1 diabetics but is being researched at great length as to WHAT it exactly -is-.  beyond being a metabolic condition, its just one of those HUH? things or sort of your metabolism is like a lightswitch with a crazy monkey at the control.  its being more applied to diabetics who were classified as 'brittle' diabetics but this is FAR more accurate. it all comes down to metabolism in certain ways.

anyways, you likely would benefit from a consult from an endo and a diabetes nutritionist from the way you describe your issues because a lot of your ways that you -must- eat are normal ways diabetics are trained to....like with a sugar to balance it with a protein and a complex carb.  beyond that, you may get some keys to help balance your weight a bit with stress triggers and how to eat when they are high because it IS all so linked and interconnected.  the only obstacle is FINDING a good team [endo, dietican etc] that believe in all these core principles.

if you'd like i can ask mine if there is one she'd recommend in your area.  my team is SO on board with the whole 'its all connected- mind, body, health' they are great.  especially with the kind of case i am.  its even hard to find an endo that will say stress causes a rise in blood sugars consistently and i've thankfully got that kind of team.

let me know.

[Annie]

Thank you Angela, for explaining this to Chris. I saw red when I saw
his post and was beyond me to explain it as you have done...
I am obese now again.. 18 months ago I was 150 lbs... So much has
happened in that time. Needless to say my diabetes is once again all
over the map, I had it nearly cured ( according to dr's )
Anyway , that's another story.. ..
Thanks again
Annie

[Blakiepoo]

I think obese people would need more food, even if it is healthy food
just to stave off hunger. Well, maybe only in the case of people who
became overweight by overeating. I don't think it's right or
successful to lose weight by only half filling and remaining hungry.
A person with a huge stomach can still lose weight by eating a ton of
salad and feel full as well.

I don't find produce to be expensive at all, especially if you can eat
a large amount before it goes bad. Meat is the crazy expensive food
group, and then dairy. Grains probably the cheapest.

When I am trying to lose weight, I buy a whole watermelon or a 1lb tub
of baby spinach. It is tough to eat it all before it goes bad (would
be easier if sharing), but by the time you finish, there are a lot of
belly fillings that replace other meals which saves you from having to
exercize 1000 calories off.

Fibre & protein are good because they make you feel full longer, and
burn calories to digest it. I get 2 things from the bulk store that
have tons of it. 1. TVP (texurized vegetable protein). It's fat-
free condensed health that looks and feels like ground beef but with
no taste. Just add boiling water and put it in whatever you're making
(I put it in chili WITH ground beef or in soup). 2. Wheat Bran.
It's the outer layer of wheat kernels and contains most of the fibre,
minerals and vitamins. I put it in anything that I can where I won't
notice it.

I'm by no means a health nut. My strategy is to wolf down the most
extremely healthy stuff as if it's medicine, and eat only the junk
food which I extremely love (no unhealthy crap that I think is "just
okay" tasting).

I'm glad the special diet isn't gone, even though I never used it.
There will always be some that use it for luxury food, and some that
slip through the cracks. It would be better to prevent the latter
than the former in my opinion.

[Robbie]

You are obviously biased against overweight people! It's not as simple
as " eat what you can afford and lose weight"...you may only be able
to afford cheap highly processed food...not everyone has enough $$
left to eat properly. Fresh fruit/veg even in season is expensive.
Congratulations on your healthy weight...now if you could just work on
your mindset..now that could be expensive!

[Shelley Blidner]

excellent point Robbie -and funny to boot!!!

[Chris Carey]

Robbie, Its unfortunate that you feel compelled to make this personal...Your assumptions and insinuations couldn't be further from reality. Now, for the rest of your response. You said, "you may only be able to afford cheap highly processed food...not everyone has enough $$ left to eat properly. Fresh fruit/veg even in season is expensive." Frankly, this statement isn't true. This is not a factual statement. Anyone can eat healthy, and I do mean anyone, regardless of budgetary limitations. Let me explain... I recently read a book titled "Switch", by Dan Heath, which, in chapter 2, includes the story of a Third World community in Vietnam whose members live life on the verge of daily starvation. A few of the painfully poor in this particular community are able to thrive. That is that they are remarkably healthy and well fed given their lack of access to even basic food items. How is this possible? These outliers unwittingly learned to gather small shrimp and crabs from nearby rice paddies and then to mix these with their daily rice meals. These simple food additives provided life-saving amounts of protein and vitamins to Third World diets.  So, its very easy and affordable to eat healthy, life-sustaining meals, if you know how. If people who survive on pennies a day can do it, then so can anyone. Another book I recommend, "No Excuses: The True Story of A Congenital Amputee Who Became A Champion in Wrestling and in Life." So, Robbie, no excuses! For more information following these links: 1) https://www.amazon.ca/No-Excuses-Congenital-Champion-Wrestling/dp/1596980109/ref=sr_1_43?ie=UTF8&qid=1291334006&sr=8-43 2) http://www.amazon.ca/Switch-Change-Things-When-Hard/dp/0307357279/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1291335029&sr=1-1 Chris --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Robbie <robbi...@persona.ca> wrote:

[Blakiepoo]

I think that depends on what kinds of produce you're getting. A head
of lettuce, a big hunk of cauliflower or broccoli, a big cucumber are
all a buck each on sale, not much more when not on sale. Bags of
apples are always cheap, watermelon's cheap for the volume even out of
season. Bags of potatoes are super cheap per volume. There's not
much cheaper than that.

Now if you buy raspberries, blueberries, asparagus, fancy mushrooms,
fancy greens, cherry tomatoes, anything organic, you'll pay quite a
lot at checkout.

I agree that unhealthy crap is usually cheap (except for chocolate and
frozen treats). But it's very possible to BUY healthy produce on a
budget. It just takes excluding expensive alternatives even if you'd
prefer them or are sick of the cheap ones.

[abrowne]

Chris,

Not everybody has access to gardens, nor can
everybody have the time and equipment to cook
from scratch.  I work 70 hours on avg a week,
and my grocery store is a 45 min walk from my
place.  I do not drive, so I can't stop at the farmer's
market here, get stuff, then go to Price Choppers
and get stuff, then go to Meatland and get stuff, etc.
Nor will I be eating rice patties, as I really cannot
eat that kind of stuff, nor can I eat the same thing
all the time, or stuff from a can (other than evap
milk for my coffee).  Canned food is laden with salt.
Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 7:11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33026 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[Robbie]

"These outliers unwittingly learned to gather small shrimp and crabs
from nearby rice paddies and then to mix these with their daily rice
meals. These simple food additives provided life-saving amounts of
protein and vitamins to Third World diets."

Honestly Chris....there are not any rice paddies nor any shrimp
growing in the streets/waterways here in Ontario AND if there were
we'd be fined for trespassing becuz nothing much is free...we probably
have wild mushrooms in summer season if you trust your knowledge base
and know the non-poisonous ones.
My disagreement is with your statement that morbid obesity should NOT
be supplemented by the special diet and that we should instead forage
in the streets for extra foodstuffs!
I certainly wouldn't want you in charge of handing out the Special
Diet $$.
I personally was never overweight until I became severely disabled...I
used to be able to balance my proper nutritional intake with exercise
BUT since my body has now failed me I couldn't pick up those "shrimp"
even if they were there!
For me it's not a matter of overeating but under-exercising due to
pain. + meds that are known to cause weight gain.
If it were as simple as eating less GOSH I'd be slim and 20
again...might as well dream in technicolour!

Yes, I'm the one and only person that is very grateful for the money I
get from ODSP BUT they do not give me enough to eat a healthy diet
on...yes I cook everything from scratch and never eat junk food. My
family legally supplements my income so that I can afford fresh fruit/
veg and for that I am truly blessed/lucky!

[StarTears]

Frankly, this statement isn't true. This is not a factual statement. Anyone can eat healthy, and I do mean anyone, regardless of budgetary limitations. Let me explain... I recently read a book titled "Switch", by Dan Heath, which, in chapter 2, includes the story of a Third World community in Vietnam whose members live life on the verge of daily starvation. A few of the painfully poor in this particular community are able to thrive. That is that they are remarkably healthy and well fed given their lack of access to even basic food items. How is this possible? These outliers unwittingly learned to gather small shrimp and crabs from nearby rice paddies and then to mix these with their daily rice meals. These simple food additives provided life-saving amounts of protein and vitamins to Third World diets.

chris....

you are taking this SO out of context is it SO ridiculous.  you are talking so politician here.  yes its great that people in vietnam have ACCESS to these types of protein and the lifestyle and metabolism to SUPPORT that kind of food source.

now come back to ontario please and tell me where i can do that.

see your flaw?  you CANNOT live that kind of lifestyle or food alternative HERE. its great to expand your knowledge of other ways of sustainability but its NOT sustainability for ALL when its not UNIVERSAL.

i cannot go out in my backyard in kingston and get these clams or protein sources you have exampled.  nor could a refugee in ottawa or london or smiths falls.  an elderly gentleman with late onset diabetes could NOT go out into his city block in port hope to gather soft shell crabs to fight obesity.  a family of 4 in a cramped apartment downtown  windsor cannot grow a field of rice patty's or in belleville or in kanata.  our climate doesn't allow for it for one, two its not agriculture that is permitted in most regions of canada any longer.

there is little logic in your proposal here.

star

[Lorene]

How about this story that was on this week on the news about a man on
a potato diet and lost 20 pounds over 60 days? It lowered his
chlosterol and his blood sugar and blood pressure went down. He ate
nothing else but 20 pototoes every day. You can either watch the video
or read the story that is just below the video. Potato ice cream????
Sounds yucky!!!!

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40424707/ns/today-today_health/

Lorene

[Chris Carey]

Star, People in the Third World generally require more, not fewer, calories because of the harshness of their conditions. Moreover, you seem to be saying that just because select or exceptional groups in the Third World can eat healthy that somehow we cannot, necessarily, that because of their profound differences these two lifestyle-types cannot be compared? If that is what you're saying, that's ridiculous and you would be defeating yourself to think that way. If people can thrive anywhere in developing nations, where food scarcity and harsh conditions are the norm, than certainly anyone participating in this chat group can do the same.  The issues in this debate concern food availability and food costs. Obviously, food is readily available in Ontario, and throughout the West. We don't have to fish or hunt for our food anymore...Unlike in Third World countries, developed societies have adequately addressed the issue of food availability by way of the grocery store. We simply go to our nearest local grocer and chose from a vast inventory of year-round foods that originated from all over the world.  As for food costs, fortunately for us, we are all living in a privileged era of historically record low prices. Never in the recorded history of the world have food prices been this low. That's a fact. Furthermore, as I understand you, you haven't said that you cannot afford to eat, you've only said that you cannot afford to eat in a healthy way. My point is simply this, in Ontario, if you can afford to eat, then you can afford to eat healthy. Its really that simple. Here's the proof: This is a listing of some of the cheapest foods available year-round at any grocery store in this province. They're all highly nutritious, versatile food products -- and most are staples. This list is far from exhaustive. Peanut butter, eggs, whole grain bread products, canned tuna, oatmeal, sliced bacon and ham, beans and lentils, whole wheat pasta, marinara sauce, brown rice, frozen and canned vegetables, ground beef, chicken drumsticks, prepared bagged salad, potatoes, apples, bananas, raisins, onions, wheat germ, garlic, ginger, milk, and yogurt.   The challenge of healthy eating, therefore, isn't caused a lack of access to good foods, good foods are everywhere and they're cheap. Instead, the problem of healthy eating comes from not knowing what to buy, or how to prepare it. Ironically, this was exactly the problem for those Vietnamese people who weren't thriving in Dan Heath's example. The people who were suffering malnutrition in that Vietnamese community didn't know the how of healthy eating. This is the common link between them and some people in Ontario who say they can't eat healthy...Its the knowing how. Chris

[Michael Bird]

Thanks for sharing this Lorene..

Mike

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:08 PM, Lorene <sym...@yahoo.com> wrote:

How about this story that was on this week on the news about a man on
a potato diet and lost 20 pounds over 60 days? 

--

You might have to click on 'show quoted text'  to see complete email.

May God be with you...



[Blakiepoo]

I've never read the book he is talking about, but I think the point he
is trying to make is that getting creative and thinking outside the
box will bring opportunities to make things easier when you're on a
budget. Some improvements come at a cost of time or money, some cost
a change in behaviour or trying something you've never thought of.
Nothing ever gets better when making excuses NOT to do something
good. Things get better when you at least give them a try.

Angela, I can't imagine your doctor telling you that it is medically
unsafe for you to eat anything in a can or the same thing often, yet
telling you that coffee is healthy. I don't think rice patties are
dangerous to anyone and I've never heard of sub-premium bread killing
anyone. Evaporated milk is a much more expensive version of milk
(literally with half the water boiled off). Salt is definitely a
limiting factor for anyone with a heart condition, but not all canned
food is salty. And there's no cooking from scratch if you eat
vegetables raw. Some people make their entire diet of raw food.
While that sounds insane to me, it's possible. I never have the
energy to cook but there's practically no preparation required for
most produce.

I think being on ODSP means letting go of things like pre-cubed fruit
salad and pre-made sandwiches, cooked chicken wings at the deli
counter. It means we have to cut those things up ourselves, put those
sandwiches together ourselves, cook the chicken wings (if we can even
afford them) ourselves. It's what anyone on a low budget has to
figure out. Normally when someone works fulltime they get enough
money to afford conveniences such as these. I don't know how 70 hours
a week doesn't bring in a ton of money and I won't ask you about your
income since it's no one's business but your own.

There are always ways to improve the way we do things, and the only
thing in the way is the reluctance to try something new.

[Robbie]

So, its very easy and affordable to eat healthy, life-sustaining
meals, if you know how. If people who survive on pennies a day can do
it, then so can anyone. Another book I recommend, "No Excuses: The
True Story of A Congenital Amputee Who Became A Champion in Wrestling
and in Life." So, Robbie, no excuses!

Just curious...these books imply that anything can easily be
overcome...so with all your enlightened reading have you been able to
apply your "mental will" and overcome your psychosomatic brain "blips"
that prevent you from working?

[Uppity Woman]

This is an excellent post. Thank you, Angela.   Uppity       -------Original Message-------

[Chris Carey]

Robbie, I'm genuinely sympathetic to your situation, and for the record, I do believe that ODSP should make good eating less burdensome. The point that I'm trying to make is that although the regular benefit might not enable us to eat well, it certainly can allow us to eat healthy. This is the critical distinction. What you've described in your most recent post is what I would call, or categorize as, eating well. And you should be entitled to eat those everyday foods independently of added support from loved ones. Its shameful that you cannot. For someone like me, the reality is, although I can't enjoy the frequent rich variety of foods that you might, with discipline and creativity, I can still eat nutritiously.  Regarding the reference to the book, "Switch." I chose to refer to the story about the Vietnamese villagers who plucked shrimps and crabs from nearby rice paddies, not to imply that Canadians should switch to fishing as an alternative to buying food. That would be impractical. Instead, I chose to reference the story to highlight the fact that some of our so-called problems are not so difficult to solve. That sometimes the challenges we experience in life are actually about how we think -- our perceptions, attitudes, and the information we possess, rather than about factors beyond our control.   Chris

[anarchris]

i sent off my application to ohrt on the basis of disability ie ibs/
mcs/es/yeast/sugar and i'll reportedly get legal advice in two months
or so. let you all know
nrxs
i'm
> thinking of applying to the ohrc on that basis like others did who got
> a favourable ruling(e.g. multiple sclerosis etc). what are people's
> thoughts as to its chances?
> nrxs
>
>

[Chris Carey]

Angela, Please see my responses to Star and Robbie on this topic. It's not so difficult to eat in accordance medical and nutritional guidelines. Adding cooked chicken, or sausage, to whole wheat pasta and marinara sauce has a per meal cost of about a buck, or two. A low salt, low calorie wiener and a whole wheat bun has a retail cost of less than a buck. Raisins, celery and peanut butter, combine for a highly nutritious cheap snack. Eggs, one of the most nutritiously dense foods available, are extremely cheap. Chris

[abrowne]

Food is cheap?  It costs me between $1,000 - $1,200 a
month to feed my family (four people)!  And much of what
I buy is on your list too ...

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>
T

[abrowne]

Absolutely, Robbie!

If this was true, more people would be doing it,
including the rich and the middle class! I know
most middle class want to save money if they
could, so they would ALL be doing this!

Good post.

---

From: Robbie <robbi...@persona.ca>
To: ODSP Fireside <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 11:08:44 AM
Subject: [odspfireside: 33082 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[Chris Carey]

Uppity and Angela, I am well acquainted with eating disorders. One of the medical factors that qualified me for ODSP was bulimia. I developed the condition during my battle with weight-loss as an early 20 something and have fought the regular urges to binge and purge ever since. Furthermore, as a way to help myself and as a way to hopefully one day give back, I am enrolled in the psychology program at Queen's University. Presently, I'm taking Abnormal Psychology, which directly addresses eating disorders. I have never received a special dietary allowance, nor would I ever want to. Frankly, my experience has been that bulimia is like an addition. Having extra money for food would be counterproductive. The best practice for a bulimic is strict dietary control: a regular schedule of 4 or 5 small portion meals, everyday. This doesn't require a dietary allowance. People with eating disorders need emotional support, counseling, and perhaps, for anorexics, initially, hospitalization.  For anyone wondering how I can afford to pay tuition...Queen's allows students to keep a "tab", which means that students can pay the costs of their tuition gradually over the course of the school year. I make small contributions towards the balance of my student account each month. Chris --- On Sat, 12/4/10, Uppity Woman <uppity...@gmail.com> wrote:

[abrowne]

Chris,
Need to read the Ball decision carefully.  If you have a condition
that is not listed that you feel requires extra money, then you
need to make cogent arguments along the lines of Ball.

If you need some assistance in understanding these arguments,
I can send them via private email.  As for legal assistance, you
are probably just going to have to go to a legal clinic or seek
summary advice from somebody in your community.  I have found
the HRLSC very underinclusive in who it serves, not because it
chooses to discriminate, but because they are very under-resourced
and no more helpful than seeking help from the Office of the Worker
Advisor when you have a WSIB claim (which is demonstrated by
the fact that 90 - 95% of worker claims are handled by the person
themselves or by a privately paid representative or a union).
Angela

---

From: anarchris <abolish...@yahoo.ca>
To: ODSP Fireside <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 4:43:48 PM
Subject: [odspfireside: 33091 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[abrowne]

Chris,

I don't eat pasta.  I am overweight.  My meals include a meat and
a vegetable and sometimes a no fat yogurt.  I know what I pay for
groceries, Chris, and I pay about $1000 a month for a family of four.
I can only eat two eggs at most a week due to cholesterol.  Just because
what you do works for you, does NOT work for everybody else ...

Did you not go on and on a few weeks ago about somebody you felt
was telling everybody they should move out of cities and move to
smaller towns, that this was not an option for everyone?  This too works
for you, great.  It does not work for my family.

Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 4:46:23 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33092 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

Angela, Please see my responses to Star and Robbie on this topic. It's not so difficult to eat in accordance medical and nutritional guidelines. Adding cooked chicken, or sausage, to whole wheat pasta and marinara sauce has a per meal cost of about a buck, or two. A low salt, low calorie wiener and a whole wheat bun has a retail cost of less than a buck. Raisins, celery and peanut butter, combine for a highly nutritious cheap snack. Eggs, one of the most nutritiously dense foods available, are extremely cheap. Chris

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To post to this group via email, send to odspfi...@googlegroups.com

[abrowne]

Blaikie,
The 70 hours a week is self-employed, not employed, but
because I am married to an ODSP recipient, it means I am
supposed to support the WHOLE family ... we have no right
to have two incomes like other families.  I have to make up
for every loss, and I can't.  Also I am in an expensive profession,
not allowed to hire anybody to assist and not all expenses
are "allowed" and are therefore counted as income 100%
against my husband.  It's complicated, so much so, I can't
even put this in a whole column, perhaps a chapter of a book,
but that isn't the beginning of what you are asking.

No I do not eat from cans, they ALL contain salt and
preservatives.  That's why the food survives in a can so
long.  Read the ingredients on your canned food the next
time you open one or are in a store shopping.  None of
the preservatives are really healthy for you.  Preservatives
can make you ill too.  Coffee and evaporated milk (e.g. no
fat) is one of my few luxuries. And no, I do not even LIKE
rice, regardless of whether it is healthy or not. Even if I did,
I wouldn't eat it everyday.  As for whether coffee is healthy,
there are no real studies showing that it is unhealthy on a
consistent basis; there are some that show coffee serves
as a buffer against Type 2 diabetes and Alzheimer's.

I do not have access to anything except a grocery store
that is a 45 minute WALK from my place (the closest one)
and I don't have transportation to fly from store to store
to use up store specific coupons or dig at the specials.
I have a friend of mine that serves a family of five that
buys exactly the same food I do and saves about 30%
of the cost that I pay out by simply being able to drive.
She also has a live in housekeeper to do the cooking.
We don't.
Angela

---

From: Blakiepoo <blake.s...@gmail.com>
To: ODSP Fireside <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 10:09:39 AM
Subject: [odspfireside: 33078 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[abrowne]

Chris C (just realized there are more than one Chris on here)
If I lived on my husband's ODSP alone, we'd have no more than $600
a month to go to groceries, transportation, phone, clothing, everything
else over and above housing and utilities.  Not everybody has low cost
housing.  My housing by the way is among the lowest cost in the
region without living in subsidized housing.  It's the utilities that
kill you here.

Bulimia is a very different kind of issue than obesity.  I would love
to be normal weight.  Dieting, exercise, etc. has not worked for me.

But as for going back to school, that's great to hear!  I hope you
enjoy your courses, as going back to college or university is something
that really gives you an opportunity to think widely.
Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 5:23:09 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33096 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[Chris Carey]

Robbie,  Its unfortunate that you have to do this, all because I had the audacity to challenge your categorical belief that eating healthy is impossible under the auspices of ODSP. I've only spoken to my experience. Now you want to divide between those you deem as worthy of disability supports and those who aren't. I guess because you feel threatened by some of my personal views, you've decided that I'm of the latter? You have a really poor attitude, perhaps, your disability has gotten the better of your humanity? For anyone interested in the perils of psychosomatic labels, please read a recently release book entitled, "My Imaginary Illness", by Chloe Atkins. She is a brilliant scholar, teaching at the University of Calgary. For nearly 15 years Dr. Atkins was labeled as suffering from conversion reaction, a form of psychosomatic illness. Her symptoms digressed to such a state that she was hospitalized and on life support. Finally, she was properly diagnosed with a rare presentation of a rare autoimmune disease. She was demonized by the medical community and truly nearly died and the entire time medical doctors told her it was all in her head. She is an amazing person and I'm proud to own her book.  http://www.amazon.ca/Imaginary-Illness-Uncertainty-Prejudice-Diagnosis/dp/0801448875/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1291504227&sr=8-1 And by the way, Dan Heath challenges his readers to find what he calls the bright spots.He says, look for the models that are working and try to figure out why that is so that those practise can be co-opted for other's to replicate. His book is exactly relevant to this dialog.  And as for Kyle Maynard, he's just an amazing guy. He is a 4x amputee, no hands or feet, and yet he still lives a remarkable life. He now owns a chain of fitness centres throughout the US and is a former champion wrestler. Amazing! Finally, isn't this supposed to be a supportive group? A few here seem to use this site as a way to project their hatred at life onto others, or to denigrate others for not sharing that hatred. Okay, so we're poor and sick, aren't we among equals? I don't share the hopelessness and helplessness orthodoxy, that's me! I can see why several people have recently chosen not to participate here...  Chris

[Chris Carey]

Angela, Housing and food are separate issues. Obviously housing costs vary widely depending on size of family and community of residence, etc. Food costs may also vary by geographic location, for example, people living in north, or in remote regions. Otherwise, food prices are nearly universal across the province. It seems some want to conflate a number of issues. Food consumption is easily controlled, housing consumption is not. If you'll remember, this conversion started b/c I said that its illogical to have both anorexics and obese qualify for a dietary allowance. No one here has explained what special foods obese people need? Why are their food costs higher? What foods do they need to eat that are so much more expensive? Everyone has to be concerned about cholesterol, and hypertension, and cancer. We all have to be mindful about what we eat. Furthermore, if there is a category of eligibility in the dietary allowance for obesity and the only criteria is heaviness, then obviously losing weight is the solution, which doesn't require a special diet.  Here's a link to "Health Club Diet for Obesity", all the recommended foods are ordinary and easily affordable.  http://www.diethealthclub.com/health-issues-and-diet/obesity/diet.html Its amazing to me how dogmatic some are being on this issue. These few are being absolutely categorical. There's no truth in anything I've posted? Wow. Chris

[Chris Carey]

Blakiepoo, Yes, yes, and yes! Everything that you've written is exactly correct and is exactly as I intended. You know want it is I'm talking about. I find that whenever someone here challenges the accepted orthodoxy, they risk being demonized. Its highly unfortunate because all that does is shutdown the debate, or cause people to leave. We need to be more supportive, and to leave behind the derision and attacks. Chis --- On Sat, 12/4/10, Blakiepoo <blake.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Blakiepoo <blake.s...@gmail.com> Subject: [odspfireside: 33078 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced To: "ODSP Fireside" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com> Date: Saturday, December 4, 2010, 3:09 PM

I've never read the book he is talking about, but I think the point he is trying to make is that getting creative and thinking outside the box will bring opportunities to make things easier when you're on a budget.  Some improvements come at a cost of time or money, some cost a change in behaviour or trying something you've never thought of. Nothing ever gets better when making excuses NOT to do something good.  Things get better when you at least give them a try

[StarTears]

Peanut butter, eggs, whole grain bread products, canned tuna, oatmeal, sliced bacon and ham, beans and lentils, whole wheat pasta, marinara sauce, brown rice, frozen and canned vegetables, ground beef, chicken drumsticks, prepared bagged salad, potatoes, apples, bananas, raisins, onions, wheat germ, garlic, ginger, milk, and yogurt.

okay chris.....you have your mind made completely up on this subject and as a JUVENILE type 1 diabetic i know nutrition pretty inside and out- from both a metabolic and nutritional standpoint.  your list here, umm....for people that have to eat specific diets is not so cheap and is limited.  one in particular i am going to point out is how is ginger and garlic considered a food?  those are spices.

being diabetic i cannot eat rice or pasta or normal marinara sauce.  bananas, raisins and potatoes are pretty much out. anyways, a breakdown of your list.

peanut butter- 3.99-5.99/L, eggs 2-4/dz, whole grain bread products 2-5 a loaf, canned tuna 1.49-2/can, oatmeal up to 3 for instant or cooking, sliced bacon 3-6 500g and ham ? i haven't been able to afford ham in so long, beans and lentils 1 per canned 2 bagged, whole wheat pasta 1.49-2 box, marinara sauce 1-6 can-jar, brown rice 5-16 box/bag, frozen and canned vegetables 1-8 for canned to bags of frozen bulk, ground beef 2.99/lb, chicken drumsticks 2.99/lb, prepared bagged salad 1.69 for iceberg no nutritional value salad bag- 5.99 for spring mixed greens with lots of nutritional value, potatoes 2.99-5.99 a bag depending on what kind i buy a yam or 2 when i can, apples 1-3/lb , bananas 1/lb, raisins again haven't bought them in over 10 years, onions 1-2/lb for ones with nutritional value 2 for a bag of cooking onions, wheat germ-no clue, garlic 1/lb, ginger 1.99/lb which is A LOT, milk 3.99-7.99 for 4L if you need to buy lactose free, and yogurt 1-1.50/serving.

so how is any of these items exactly affordable staples?  we should NOT be forced to live on peanut butter and tuna sandwhiches because its affordable.  chicken drumsticks are highest fat part of the bird.  this list is SO out of touch.  i buy farm eggs from my local farmers market and i also get my yams there.  

you also later in the posts say that we are all only supermarket fundamentalists.  no we are not.  some of us still go out and fish and support our native communities around our areas who hunt and trap by buying their meat and fish as well.  i would MUCH rather buy ethically and properly grown animals for my meat than supermarket meat ANY day.  besides it tasting FAR better, you usually get a better price and you are then supporting sustainability with that.  i NEVER buy supermarket eggs or chicken.  yes i am priviledged in a way to know who to get these items from in my town [i live across from my farmers market] but i just ASKED.  you ask downtown of your town you'll find out.  you use google you'll find out who your local butcher is.  big market research isn't the solution to any of this- money to survive IS.  following a sustainable diet IS.  not being forced into eating the lowest of the basics for 10  years which completely ruins your metabolism IS.

comparing two different cultures again has no bearing to this conversation chris.  you cannot take how someone who lives with rice patty farming as a way of life and an average ontario person on ODSP survives side by side.  you keep proving that.  they have nothing in common.

star

[Robbie]

Furthermore, if there is a category of eligibility in the dietary
allowance for obesity and the only criteria is heaviness, then
obviously losing weight is the solution, which doesn't require a
special diet.

Actually the criteria is extreme obesity=morbid obesity..with a BMI
greater than 40...most candidates would be +100lbs overweight..not
just heavy! It's called morbid because it's life threatening..not a
walk in the park! You must consider that some people may have very
little $$ left over for groceries every month once the bills are
paid...the little extra they give $20-$40 is just enough to buy a few
fruit/veg.
It would be ridiculous to deny the anorexic or the morbidly
obese...both have life threatening diseases and need extra help with
proper nutrition.

Sorry about the low blow...no I don't think that you should
necessarily be cut out of the program but you seemed to be making
light of a disease process which is quite physically limiting. It's
just not easy to lose weight when you are old/disabled.

[abrowne]

Chris,
Maybe you know more about this issue than say, the public health
departments that publish what it costs for each size family each month
to purchase a healthy diet for their particular catchment area?  I go
by these statistics as well as what it actually costs my family.

I prefer to listen to them.  I wrote before what I need to eat and what
I can't eat.  Like you said before about city living, living in the country
or in small towns is not for everybody.

And don't go telling me about losing weight.  I tried all of them, and
none of the worked.
Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 7:05:18 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33108 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[abrowne]

Robbie,
Everybody who is lucky enough to have a normal body
weight thinks it is easy to lose weight.  If the shoe were
on the other foot, they would not think the same way.

Angela

---

From: Robbie <robbi...@persona.ca>
To: ODSP Fireside <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, December 4, 2010 10:55:11 PM
Subject: [odspfireside: 33115 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[Chris Carey]

Angela, That's only from $250 per person, per month. Yeah, that's cheap. That's less than 10 bucks a day, or about 3 bucks per meal. The average fast food combo is now about 8 bucks. Some people spend 12 bucks a day only on cigarettes. Chris --- On Sat, 12/4/10, abrowne <browne...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Annie]

On 04/12/2010 10:55 PM, Robbie wrote:
> It's
> just not easy to lose weight when you are old/disabled.

And medically resistant to weight loss........
Annie

[Robbie]

Angela I totally agree with you!

Here is a perfect example of the science of weight gain/loss-

A study of rats/vermine over the years that are steadily gaining
weight for unknown reasons not attributed to food intake...if you read
the whole article you will see that it could be caused by viruses or
something in the water/air...it's not a simple matter of food intake
and output of exercise!
So if the scientist can't figure it out and we are continually getting
fatter...

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101203/animal-obesity-study-101205/

[Chris Carey]

Robbie, (I apologize in advance for errors of grammar or spelling, I was typing faster than usual) I think you have a profoundly distorted perception of me and unfortunately you seem to have misinterpreted my position on the special diet as a bias against certain categories of people, which couldn't be further from reality. Let me tell you about myself.... I became sick in 2001 while in university. I left school voluntarily that year for what was supposed to be only one semester. I did this b/c my doctor told me to. At the time was experiencing serious cognitive distortions, I had just lost a huge amount of weight, and I was bulimic. I had been attending school full-time, doing very well, and worked part-time to support myself. I had no help from family, my tuition was paid by government loans. After leaving school, for nearly a year I worked in various retail jobs. Then, b/c my medical condition worsened, I quite to became a cleaner...I went back to the campus where I had once been a student to clean toilets, urinals, and classrooms. I had no sense of entitlement, no sense that I was better than that job.  So, for the next 5 to 6 years I cleaned washrooms and classrooms all across that campus, in spaces where I had once studied earnestly. I earned 8 to 9 bucks an hour the entire time, and although I worked 37.5 hours/wk, I was still living in poverty. Furthermore, I had no medical insurance. I was forced to pay for expensive SSRI's and anticonvulsant medications from my $1200 a month paycheck. In order to help cover my living costs I took another job in 2006 delivering newspapers. For nearly two years, I worked 7 days a week, every week, cleaning during the day and delivering newspapers at night. It was hell, it was grueling. I still have all the pay stubs as proof. I had been raised in a farming community and I was taught to tough it out, to be independent, and so I was. In 2008, my emotional state deteriorated to the point that I wanted to be incarcerated. I was exhausted, physically and emotionally. I had never been involved with the police, nor had I ever engaged in any kind of criminal activity, but going to jail seemed to be a better alternative than endlessly cleaning toilets and delivering newspapers for the rest of my life. So here's what I did... In 2003, I had lost my drivers license because of an unpaid fine. I saw this as a unfair tax for being poor. In 2008, I had appealed to MTO for an exception. I even spoke to someone in the Ministers' office. I explained my socioeconomic and medical circumstances. At the time I wanted my license back so that I could accept a supervisory position with the cleaning company where I worked. I had been offered the job, it was mine, and it paid $18/hr, huge money to me. That money would have made a tremendous difference in my life and I told this to MTO and the Minister's office.  You see, b/c my license was suspended for an unpaid fine while I was still a G2 driver, in Ontario, after 3 years of expiry, you have to restart as a G1, again. This meant that I couldn't accept the job. That I couldn't escape sickness and poverty because the system wouldn't let me. To be clear, my license was suspended, and subsequently expired, only for administrative reasons. I had never had an accident, I had a near perfect driving record and was an able driver having been a farm worker throughout my youth.  This refusal by MTO had a spiral effect on me and so, although I couldn't accept the job, I began driving anyway. My doctor believed in was impulsive acts of self destruction. Ultimately, I ended up in court 3 times: I was once stopped for not making a complete stop at a sign, once for driving 70 in 55, and then once for "suspicious driving". I wanted to go to jail, I just wanted to stop the cycle of sickness and poverty. Eventually I was able to meet the prosecutor responsible my file to avoid jail. I agreed to the arrangement that was offered only b/c my doctor recommended ODSP, he said that the program could help.  I had never heard of ODSP back then. Once I was accepted, I then applied for employment supports, which were refused. Since late 2008, I've reapplied 3 more times and have been rejected each and every time. Once b/c I faxed in the application, once b/c I might be eligible for EI employment supports, and then once my application was "lost." Seriously, I was told the office lost my application. Moreover, I've applied for work on my own. Try explaining so-called conversion disorder, or cognitive distortions, or generalized anxiety disorder to a potential employer. Yet, that doesn't stop me for applying for work.  Once, again I've applied for a job as a cleaner, still haven't been contacted. Ideally, I would get a job as a truck driver, or cab driver. I know how to operate heavy equip, unfortunately I still can't due that b/c I owe the province nearly $2000 in traffic fines related to my driving while under suspension charges. With one hand they give and with the other they take away...Its illogical. Today, I have a partner whose legally blind. One of my good friends is bipolar. I volunteer at a local Salvation Army thrift store and a nearby retirement home, whenever possible. I am absolutely dedicated to helping the disempowered in our society. I know the issues of sickness, disability, and poverty all too well and I know how the system works against us. While a minimum wage cleaner, I met a lot of people who had been equally ground-down by the gears of an ineffective, unsympathetic, and overly bureaucratic system. New immigrants, the poor, the mentally impaired, the illiterate, many of these people became my friends and I got deeply involved in a few of their lives. Once I agreed to accept legal custody of a coworker after she had been detained by police during a manic episode. I care about these people and care about our common issues. Frankly, I don't want to be sick, I don't want to be on ODSP, who does?  People I went to school with now own condos, nice cars, and have interesting professions and security. Have they worked harder than me? Than you? Than any of my former coworkers? Their degrees and designations were subsidized by taxpayers. Most work for the federal government and are making the very rules and regulations that the rest of us must abide. Some are married and travel frequently. I can't relate to that and they can't relate to me. They don't understand our issues, and yet they make the rules. Some hold the view that people "on the system" are lazy, weak, stupid, or frauds...Yet, you and I know otherwise, we all know otherwise. When I criticize the rules of the system, I'm not criticizing you, or anyone else, personally, as its beneficiary. I'm only questioning whether the best option is in use, or if there might be more constructive, more helpful alternatives. Chris

[Lorene]

Leave peanut butter out for me. I will not touch it to eat it. I hate
the taste of it. When I was a small little girl staying at the
Children's Hospital in London, they used to serve peanut butter
sandwiches at lunch time about twice a week. I will not eat it. The
nursing students used to try to get me to eat PB sandwich, even a half
sandwich or bribe me if I eat this, I will get a dessert. If I don't,
I don't get dessert. I do without eating the PB sandwich. I have never
forgotten that. From this day forward, I would never eat peanut
butter. I did buy it for my husband and my son. Everything they have
peanut butter, I leave the room til they are done and put the jar away
for me.

As for whole wheat pasta, I tried that and hate the taste of it. I
still with regular kind of any kind of pasta. I can't have any kind of
marinara or pasta sauce all the time. I can only have it maybe about
once a month when I make a big batch of pasta. It has nothing to do
with the taste. Tomatoes have acidity in it which I can't handle
tomatoes, apples, oranges, etc. I get acid reflux all the time. I can
still eat them, but only so slowly. If I have a craving for pasta, I
have to add something in it, like mushrooms, shredded cheese, or
parmesan cheese to disguise the taste of the acidity in the pasta
sauce, or else I get sick.

I was eating white bread for a lot of years til I switched over to
whole grain bread about 5 years. I like it better than white. To this
day, I can't even stand to taste white bread because it tastes too
yeasty and doughy. Same goes for hamburg and hot dog buns. I get the
kind that is flat bread made for hamburg and hot dogs. I don't eat hot
dogs anymore. I get flatbread at No Frills and the kind I get is whole
wheat. Sure they are more money, but it is worth the cost if you have
a craving for a homemade or frozen burger to cook at home instead of
eating at a cheap fast food place. I hardly go to fast food places
anymore.

Lorene

I don't buy canned vegetables, except for an odd can of beets I would
buy. I buy the frozen kind when it is on sale.

[Bill Higgs]

Indeed I was terribly skinny my whole life, I couldnt gain weight,  It was so tiresome listening to people constantly telling me to eat more

 

Bill

[Blakiepoo]

Geez there's a lot that prompted me to respond since I last visited.

Chris,
I wouldn't say bacon is cheap! Chicken and ground beef are expensive
too, and milk is a little expensive, but the rest are pretty cheap.
Thanks for sharing your story with us. I feel like any time I tell
mine it takes a lot of energy out of me. With what you wrote about
food prices, it was kind of a big proclaimation and should really have
a source for that info if it is fact. Especially when food in other
parts of the world are fractions of what they are here. I agree that
we should be able to have debates or chats here without nastiness and
by keeping an open mind and objectivity. It makes great food for
thought (yes bad pun).

Angela,
ZOMG that's a huge food expense! I usually spend $130-150 per month
on food for one adult. I don't have special needs but still that's a
huge allocation for food. I really hope something in this thread will
help you slash it a little. I have a can of peaches in my fridge with
no sodium. It's the only can I have other than chili which is
probably loaded with salt. You said that there's no evidence that
coffee is bad for you, which I'm not sure is true, but you were okay
to believe that preservatives can make you sick without evidence. I'm
not saying you shouldn't have treats now and then. fat-free Evap milk
= fat free milk with half the water evaporated out of it +
preservatives. Condensed milk is a different story. I've bought some
Instant Skim Milk Powder from Bulk Barn, and I haven't figured out if
it's cheaper or tastes good. I put it in recipes with milk that I
want thickened, but it might work for coffee as well. Can your
husband not do the food prep while you're working? That way you could
save money and there's no clawback for that.

Startears,
You priced things looking for the maximum prices you could pay for
them. When I shop, I look for the lowest prices to buy things, and I
never pay the kinds of prices you quoted. Actually I usually pay
about half of the low end of what you listed there. By stocking up on
things when they're on sale, you're able to hold out until the next
sale and never have to buy those things full price. You just have to
mind the amount you have left. Of course that doesn't apply to fresh
food.

I totally agree there should be a Special Diet Allowance. If you have
to buy food that costs more for medical reasons, you should get more
money to pay for it. But there are lots of things to try to either
get by when it's gone or save money for other things or for security.

Lorene,
That potato diet reminds me of an awful week I self-inflicted many
years ago. I watched the tv show Big Brother, and in sympathy and as
a challenge, once when they had to eat peanut butter and jam
sandwiches for a full week, I did it with them. NOTHING else but PB &
J, wonder bread, and water. It wasn't so difficult, and I wasn't
craving other food, but I didn't get the urge to eat very much during
that week.

[Blakiepoo]

Shoot, I forgot Bill.

Bill,
They used to tell me to eat more and put on some muscle when I was a
kid/teenager. It did me some damage, although I didn't recognize it
at the time. Why is it socially acceptable to tell someone they're
too skinny but not to tell someone they're too fat? Both are
insulting, and imply that a person should change their looks for
others' approval. Hey thanks for the body image issues, rude people
from childhood!

[abrowne]

Blaikie,

---

From: Blakiepoo <blake.s...@gmail.com>

ZOMG that's a huge food expense!  I usually spend $130-150 per month
on food for one adult.  I don't have special needs but still that's a
huge allocation for food.  I really hope something in this thread will
help you slash it a little. 

My reply
It is because I do not have a vehicle and in order to cut my costs
I need a vehicle to go get the different specials which happen at
different stores at the same time, and I certainly can't get to the
farmer's market at the other end of town when all I have to rely on
is a cab   As I said I have a friend that gets the same things we buy,
but because she has a car she spends only $700 a month for her
family of four.

> I have a can of peaches in my fridge with no sodium.

My reply
The canning process reduces a lot of the nutritional value in it.

I've bought some Instant Skim Milk Powder from Bulk Barn, and
I haven't figured out if it's cheaper or tastes good.  I put it in recipes
with milk that I want thickened, but it might work for coffee as well.

My reply
We tried skim milk powder and it didn't work well for us; many
times it would clump and lose its appetitizing appeal.  Again, ask
yourself what happened to the milk in order to get it into the
powdered form.  I wouldn't use creamer either.

Can your husband not do the food prep while you're working?  That
way you could save money and there's no clawback for that.

My reply
He already does this.  Don't forget his disability makes him very
tired and lacks energy most of the time.  He sleeps A LOT.
He certainly isn't going to spend the whole day cooking.

Angela

[StarTears]

Startears,
You priced things looking for the maximum prices you could pay for
them.  When I shop, I look for the lowest prices to buy things, and I
never pay the kinds of prices you quoted.  Actually I usually pay
about half of the low end of what you listed there.  By stocking up on
things when they're on sale, you're able to hold out until the next
sale and never have to buy those things full price.  You just have to
mind the amount you have left.  Of course that doesn't apply to fresh
food.

i priced things on the average no sale price.  of course we all shop for sales.  i buy kraft pb or all natural pb.  kraft tends to be less expensive than the all natural no name stuff for a larger amount especially for a food i eat daily.  for produce, again average prices but for me i do NOT buy off the bruised/over ripe cart.  i eat so much stinking salad as a diabetic that its pointless.  might as well have the freshest possible unless i pick up a salad for that night and i can find one that is really good looking in the cooler discounted. slimely lettuces ewww.

i know at places like no frills you can get stuff at lower end prices but i tend to shop at better supermarkets just due to better produce since that is what i primarily am buying. 

[Chris Carey]

Angela, What I understand of your position is this: You say that your household food costs are disproportionally high relative to your household income, and that, therefore, to make food costs for you and your family more affordable, you buy cheaper foods. Moreover, you say that these cheaper foods are of inherently poor quality -- that's why their cheaper -- and thus, they cause you and your family weight gain, up to the point of obesity, and contribute to poorer health overall. Angela, unfortunately, I don't think your situation is uncommon. Certainly most, if not all, of ODSP households share your experience, given the information I've seen. So, my question is this: what foods do obese people need to eat that the rest of us don't need to eat [to maintain good health]? This is critical, there must be a dietary basis for ODSP having made this decision? If not, then is this yet another arbitrary ruling by ODSP?  Furthermore, here's the key point of contention I have regarding this issue, and why I feel that it lays bare the program's rules and regulations as being onerous, political, arbitrary, etc. According to ODSP eligibility criteria for the special diet, once an obese person reaches a BMI of less than 40, they lose the dietary allowance. Frankly, this is confusing. Either the allowance is necessary to maintain a healthy weight, or it is not? I find it surprising that you would be defending this type of criteria? It seems to me that once the allowance is removed, the beneficiary will yo-yo to a higher weight, perhaps, even higher than they were previously, as is so often the case for those battle weight issues. A temporary allowance does nothing to address any of the real structural issues in an obese person's life...Its obviously arbitrary and not based on medical data or other medical considerations -- and that's been my point from the outset of this conversation. I fully support helping people suffering from obesity. However, how a few more bucks every month for food will actually help anyone to lose weight is beyond my level of comprehension.  In terms of public health policy, both the World Health Organization and the Centre for Disease Control acknowledge that factors beyond diet and exercise can, and do contribute to a person being overweight. However, both of these public health authorities also state that bodyweight can be managed regardless of a person's genetic disposition, or medical condition, i.e., hypothyroidism, or mobility.... My take away from the information available thru the CDC and WHO websites is that no one's weight is predetermined and that anyone can manage their weight when empowered by the proper tools. Chris

[Chris Carey]

Blackiepoo, Thanks for your kind remarks. Immediately after I issued those comments, I contacted the moderator and asked that they not be posted. Apparently, that's not an option. I wanted to retract them because of the level of candor I used and the extent to which I exposed some personal details. Whenever I reflect back on the last 5 or 6 years, I often get emotional. I think that's apparent in some of what I said. The level of frustration and anger I can experience, is at times overwhelming. I'm sure many here share my sentiment.  Sorry, for being so emotional. Chris

--- On Mon, 12/6/10, Blakiepoo <blake.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Blakiepoo <blake.s...@gmail.com> Subject: [odspfireside: 33136 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced To: "ODSP Fireside" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>

[Juliette H.]

Chris C, I totally support you on this. Cooking from scratch and choosing what's on sale that week allows you to eat properly even if you just have one supermarket. But then the question is, do you have enough money to buy food at all? with the costs of housing most of the food money goes there. That if I don't take into account other things like school, because yes, school is more or less free but there are projects, trips, transportation for those that need it, etc. I don't receive extra money for that for my kids. I have to add clothes, especially for growing up kids. So let's say, we have enough money for food, then yes, we can choose to have a healthy diet choosing specials for the week, vegetables or fruits that are in season and cheap, etc.

Every year I do tomato sauce that lasts me a year. I save tons of money doing it and it doesn't have the preservatives or whatever that canned tomatoes have because I'm allergic to canned sauce, yet I can eat what I do. The same I do with strawberries doing jam. The whole family works together because I can't do it all by myself.

We are not a "me" and how "I" manage, we are a "we" and we all see how we all manage to support each other and have a better life.

I mostly see in here "me's" not my family and me.

Today all of my kids are shoveling snow, with that money they will have to pay whatever they have to pay for school and to have a good Christmas. So somehow they are lifting weight that I have over my shoulders. Those that live alone is another matter. Yet there are support groups and there are options if there isn't family around. Just have to decide to come out of the shell and see that there are other options. And I have a physical disability that doesn't allow me to just open the door and go out, especially in winter. But I had reached people just being in my house when I needed it.

Negativity only brings that, doors shut in our heads only brings that because we are unable to see that there others open. I had tried to give my opinion for so long, yet negativity is mostly what I've got from this group so I only come when my mind and body allows me to, and usually I keep my mouth shut because I live healthier that way and mostly what I do here is to keep myself informed without going into panic when I see news that shatter my life, like the one I read about the money that we should receive on the 10th. I don't believe it until I get the proper info from the proper sources as newspapers or tv just say whatever they want and they aren't as accurate.

We all have it in our hands to live a better life, we just have to want it, be more grateful of what we have and complaint less. Juliette. (now those that want to throw stones over my head because I strive for a balanced life, feel free to do so or maybe ignore me as many usually do, I won't mind. I will continue seeing positive because I really love myself and I deserve it.)

>>>The challenge of healthy eating, therefore, isn't caused a lack of access to good foods, good foods are everywhere and they're cheap. Instead, the problem of healthy eating comes from not knowing what to buy, or how to prepare it. Ironically, this was exactly the problem for those Vietnamese people who weren't thriving in Dan Heath's example. The people who were suffering malnutrition in that Vietnamese community didn't know the how of healthy eating. This is the common link between them and some people in Ontario who say they can't eat healthy...Its the knowing how.<<< Chris

[Chris Carey]

Blakiepoo,

"With what you wrote about food prices, it was kind of a big proclaimation and should really have a source for that info if it is fact."

My response: For example, this week, No Frills has "No Name" bacon on sale for $2.99. I bought two packages that will last until the end of the month. Walmart has Kraft Dinner on sale, 0.49 per box. I bought six boxes of the whole wheat version, which I'll prepare using skim milk and Becel. When I travel for groceries, I use public transit. Typically, I spend several hours traveling for the best available deals. Chris

[Juliette H.]

Chris I had saved your letter because it's a great example for all those that see us as lazy or as just not wanting to work. I know that you have written personal things, yet I thank you for sharing your story with us. Many people that judge us should read stories like this to think twice before judging. Thank you again. Juliette.

---

[Chris Carey]

Star, As a diabetic you should be receiving the full dietary allowance. I completely understand that diabetics have novel dietary needs.  As for my Third World analogy, I believe its applicable because, in life, often times our behavioural habits and the information we possess can be improved to our benefit. For instance, many in that Vietnamese village that I referred to, weren't aware that shrimp and crab additives in their meals could provide them with the essential proteins and vitamins that they were lacking. And, I say with all do respect, you have proved this point by asking why I mentioned ginger and garlic in my listing of healthy foods. Although this items may not be independently consumable (not foods), they certainly are additives that will enhance the nutritional value of any meal, and that's the point. I agree, we all should be eating better, unfortunately that's not the reality and we're best to do whatever we can for the sake of our own health, which requires creativity. Google uses of ginger and garlic for their respective medicinal properties. Chris [edit] --- On Sun, 12/5/10, StarTears <star...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[abrowne]

Chris,

Being overweight is not my only medical problem.

I am also diabetic, hypomglycemic, high cholesterol,

high lipid, as well as osteopenia.  My husband though

with kidney and cholesterol problems gets more.

 

Because of weight alone, I cannot eat pasta, white flour,

salty foods, white bread, etc.  Your arguments aren't going

to persuade me any differently.  Going on some of the diets

people suggest would turn me into an anorexic or bulimic.

 

And no, if a 40+ BMI loses weight, they do not lose their

diet, same as if a anorexic regains their weight, they do

not lose the diet either.

Dieting has been found not to work for most overweight

people, as there is almost something always behind the

weight gain.  If people watch me day in and day out, they

will find that I actually eat less than average (which was

also found to be true in cases peer reviewed).

 

There are few other tools other than various diets and

exercise, other than surgery perhaps, which is something

I will not do, nor will I taken unproven medication.

Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 4:06:21 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33172 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[abrowne]

Blaikie,

It's my husband's ODSP.  I am just forced

by them to work all the time, and still end

up with the equivalence of one inadequate

income per month because of all their clawbacks.

In my view, my income should have nothing

to do with his, and only if HE works, then he

gets 50% of his net deducted.

 

Hal Johnson and Joanne McLeod are not professional

researchers affiliated with universities, etc.  I only

read peer reviewed research.  I submitted quite a

bit of peer reviewed research when the special diet

expert committee was formed in 2006, and several of

the papers did comment on processing of foods and

decreasing of nutritional values, the same as transporting

them from a long distance, which is why local foods

are also supposed to be better.

 

I will not eat most foods out of a can.  I might buy

frozen, but not canned.  I always check the ingredients

first too, as there usually is much more than food in it.

 

Our farmer's markets are cheap, but you need a car to

get to them.

Angela

---

From: Blakiepoo <blake.s...@gmail.com>
To: ODSP Fireside <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 4:22:53 PM
Subject: [odspfireside: 33173 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

Ah, I didn't know he was also disabled.

Hal Johnson & Joanne Mcleod said that canned foods don't lose any
nutritional value.  I remember that from way back.

Re: farmer's markets, I find ours really quite expensive.  Maybe
because if they sold it cheap, they'd run out right away. 

[abrowne]

Juliette,

Many people do not have time to cook from scratch, or

the energy.  It is my husband that has to do the cooking,

and he can only do simple meals.  Looking for sales is

pretty self-defeating is one does not have the car fare to

go to the different stores, often at opposite sides of town,

to save fifty cents.  My closest grocery store is a 45 minute

walk.  The next closest is over 1 1/2 hour walk.  If I tried to

use transit, I might as well take three days off just to do

shopping alone with my family.

Angela

---

From: Juliette H. <sta...@hotmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 4:14:32 PM
Subject: RE: [odspfireside: 33177 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[abrowne]

Chris,

Not all of us have the time or energy to devote to a whole day, or

in my case of my family, likely about three full days, of bussing

around to various stores ... I burn what little energy I have just

trying to keep working.

Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 4:57:17 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33178 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

When I travel for groceries, I use public transit. Typically, I spend several hours traveling for the best available deals. Chris

--

[abrowne]

Chris,

There's a lot of emotion expressed on this list; you are

not the only one that does it ;-)

Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 4:41:40 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33176 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[StarTears]

"With what you wrote about food prices, it was kind of a big proclaimation and should really have a source for that info if it is fact." My response: For example, this week, No Frills has "No Name" bacon on sale for $2.99. I bought two packages that will last until the end of the month. Walmart has Kraft Dinner on sale, 0.49 per box.

fair enough chris.  however, look at what is IN that no name bacon.  its not real pig if barely. its 95% fat regardless of how the meat strips look.  what you are eating is mostly preservatives and unhealthy fats or oils.  you could have spent that money on liver and prepared it yourself in a much healthier way for a much more nutritional punch.

KD is a guilty pleasure of mine and when the smart KD goes on sale i buy a bunch even if i only eat it once every couple of months due to my limitations. its all preservatives and basically crap food too but yes, a simple staple indeed.  however, even college/uni kids aren't living off the stuff anymore.  they are learning how to use lots of root veggies, beans and lentils with a slow off cut of meat to cook fabulous stews that are healthy and share amongst their peers.  this is how we all need to learn how to cook as well according to diet plans and needs but we first need enough money to cover food costs properly.  i do not have enough money to eat properly in a month.  if i were to follow the food plan set out by my nutritionist i need about $400-450 a month JUST for food as a type 1 diabetic to eat.

[Robbie]

> In terms of public health policy, both the World Health Organization and the Centre for Disease Control acknowledge that factors beyond diet and exercise can, and do contribute to a person being overweight. However, both of these public health authorities also state that bodyweight can be managed regardless of a person's genetic disposition, or medical condition, i.e., hypothyroidism, or mobility.... My take away from the information available thru the CDC and WHO websites is that no one's weight is predetermined and that anyone can manage their weight when empowered by the proper tools.
> Chris

I agree that it's all about having the proper tools...some of us are
predisposed genetically to gain weight easily But with the proper
access to good food($$) and exercise(ability) we can lose weight. I've
been struggling with my weight for the past 10 years - following a
healthy diet but not being able to move enough due to my spinal
stenosis to shift my weight downward. My wonderful son bought me a
treadmill that I can now use 15min/time several times a day AND
miraculously my weight is going down. I've lost 18 lbs since
Sept1st.
No one's weight is predetermined: my mother was huge and diabetic, 3
of my 4 sister's are huge and diabetic..I maintained an average weight
thru diet & exercise until I was no longer physically able...we were
all emotional eaters and good cooks.
I'm very lucky to have a family that loves and supports me emotionally
and financially....without their help I would be huge and diabetic.
I'm only mildly plus-sized and getting smaller day by day!
Grace Robert

[Juliette H.]

Hi Angela, thank you for your reply, can't your kids help in any way? for me that's how mostly works as I can't go around either, but they go by bus with a cart and do the shopping. I just look at the flyers and tell them what I need. I had taught them to cook also and with the basics they had been creative through the years. Plus all of them took cooking classes in the school. For example the jam I just have to supervise because they know how to do it and it's very simple...the same with the tomatoes that don't require too much knowledge. I have a bread maker to make any kind of bread I want so I use the ingredients I need for my health, and in the summer I just grow some herbs in pots that add lots to a meal, and I just dry them for the winter. We are in the gleaning program that I don't know if you have it in your area and they do the picking. You don't even need to be needy to go, just want to pick whatever the farms are giving away. For them is fun and I freeze many of the things they get and they last me the winter. Kids are always very helpful, it's not too much over their shoulders and it's a blessing for me.

I'm allergic to any kind of processed food, I can't even eat meat in peace, so I avoid it...I did see that in the new list for the special diet they don't have eggs anymore and I'm allergic to those...so whatever can be done from scratch that's what i do. 

And I can't cook a lot either because I can't stand up for long and I can't do things for a long time without being in pain. So I do what I can and leave the rest on their hands, plus I rely on machines also like food processor, etc, I just add ingredients and things get done quickly. When they come from school they help or on weekends. Many things can be done then and frozen. We share time and we do what's needed to do. They also clean around and do laundry. I haven't done it for so long. All of them do whatever they have to do for themselves.

And it's not only my kids, they have friends, and all of them also help around. Some of them help with the snow, others with the cooking, etc. I don't have to ask they just offer. Sometimes kids enjoy being helpful because they feel good doing things even if for parents sometimes they are a headache. Plus I give them volunteer hours for school if they need, so it's a win win situation. In a way they are learning to give back or help, so they will also grow up to help others. 

My kids are very social and they just meet kids in their schools. I have a few that are neighbors also, but mostly from school. Without my kids it could be a very hard life for me as their father decided that it was better to have a new family than care for his sons. Juliette.

---

[abrowne]

Juliette,
It sounds like you have great kids.  My son is very busy with his high
school (Gr. 11) and he is trying to get a part-time job.  My daughter is
only 10 years old.  I am not home most of the time, so I can't even
plan anything.  As for shopping, we can only go every two weeks due
to time constraints and lack of transportation.  We don't go on the bus
with a cart because that won't do us more than three days, if that.
We just go shopping, get what we need, load a taxi and go home.
Shopping for coupons at multiple locations is not feasible either
because of lack of transportation.  Even if we tried to use the bus
to do it, we'd be doing this all day for three days!  When I would
rather relax at home more ...  I understand what you mean about the
pick your own farms; we have them here, but you can't get to them
without a vehicle.  It is clear from this board there are many people
located in many different parts of Ontario, some with different options
than others.  I need more time, not more hassles or jobs to do ;-)
Angela

---

From: Juliette H. <sta...@hotmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 7:44:12 PM
Subject: RE: [odspfireside: 33207 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[StarTears]

i can't remember who said it now....but to whom has the issue with acidity in tomatoes; an easy[ish] way to reduce the acidity in tomatoes is to peel them and seed them before making sauce.  all you need to do is blanch them and ice them to get the skin off.  seeding them while it takes quite a bit of the tomato -out- using plum or roma tomatoes will leave you with more beef of the tomato than not.  plus with them being at that young stage they are more sweet than acid.  you don't have to seed them all but taking the skin off all of the ones you are going to puree will help.  so would adding natural cane sugar to your tomatoes before canning them -by which i mean putting them in jars.  freezing them while seeming a good plan, if you are just pureeing pure tomatoes you can can them and as long as you get a proper seal, they are fine and will not attain more acidity in a glass jar at room temp unlike they do frozen.

if you are using regular tomatoes, still peel them but i would seed near all of them.  the acid is in that veiny stuff. 

adding a capful of good apple cider vinegar to your sauce will help as well.  i know it seems counter-intuitive to add an acid when you are fighting it but this stuff is different.  especially with the cane sugar.  some roasted garlic with olive oil or grapeseed oil never hurt either.

anyhoo, i make sauce from scratch so often but i am not limited to using fresh tomatoes at least.  i can use canned ones just fine but i know the tricks growing up with italians.  hope that these tricks can help you or someone else here.

[Lorene]

That was me, StarTears. I don't canned and haven't for years. It is
not worthwhile and my energy to make it for one person, not when I
have some good and bad days every day. Bad days - I am talking about
depression on some days. On good days, I go out to the library, dollar
store, exercise, etc.

I even tried canned tomatoes years ago. I hate the taste of the mushy
tomatoes. I can't have ripe tomatoes. For some reason the taste of
ripe tomatoes just turned my stomach off.

The kind of tomatoes I can handle and eat is they have to be a little
bit on the hard side. I can handle that if I am in the mood for bacon
and tomato sandwich. I hardly make it all the time, not unless the
bacon is on sale and the tomatoes are priced not too high.

I can't even stomach the taste of any kind of mint -whether it is mint
candies, peppermints, candy canes, mint chocolate, ice cream, heck
even mouthwash, etc. Mint toothpaste - I can stand it as long as I
don't swallow it. The smell and taste is not too strong for me to
handle it for some reason. I brush my teeth and then rinse out with
lots of water. I brought some Listerine Total Care Mouthwash (purple
liquid) as I have tried it at the dentist's office. I liked it. I gave
the mint mouthwash to my mom who loves it. I guess I am weird in my
own way. LOL

Lorene

[StarTears]

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Lorene <sym...@yahoo.com> wrote:

That was me, StarTears. I don't canned and haven't for years. It is
not worthwhile and my energy to make it for one person, not when I
have some good and bad days every day. Bad days - I am talking about
depression on some days. On good days, I go out to the library, dollar
store, exercise, etc.

lorene...i don't think it was you.  the person i am recalling makes their sauce for an entire year in one batch so they DO like it but the acidity in tomatoes makes it so that they cannot have it as often as they would like.  there are so many different food things in this thread its getting a bit hard to remember who has what with each food.  your adversions though are easy to remember because you give what are actually pretty common stories with why you have adversions to them.  [like your force feeding of peanut butter sammiches,  that is more common than you realize....but don't tell that to my cat littles. he'd take peanuts or a piece of my pb toast over meat any day LOL he is crazy]

ok gotta go,  being forced into snuggles with one of the other 5 bosses around here, kitty vada and he is literally pushing me off the computer.

star

[Juliette H.]

Hi Star Tears...I was the one talking about tomatoes, but I didn't talk about acidity. I have a problem with the ones that are sold in the store because all the stuff they put into them. Still, thank you very much for your tips, I will save your letter for next year :) I do take all the seeds off, only that I don't peel them. I use herbs and garlic also, never added vinegar or oil to them, I could try it and see how they come. A lady in a supermarket told me that she just gets the tomatoes and freezes them in a bag, but I don't like how they come when I take them out and it's not hard to do it with the jars. I always use Roma tomatoes, don't use any other. Thanks again! Juliette.

---

[Chris Carey]

Star,

Liver is an excellent food and one that I forgot to mention. 

It sucks to be diabetic, it can really complicate other health matters. 

How many here have ever had to use the services of a food bank?

Chris

[Chris Carey]

Angela,

Yeah, and some of those people don't use pseudonyms :) 

Chris

[Chris Carey]

Juliette,

Thanks so much for your support and kindness. If nothing else, my story might make a few others a little more grateful about their own circumstances knowing that things could be worse....That they could be me. Lol

Chris

[abrowne]

Chris,
I won't go to food banks.  There's a lot of prejudice around here,
even by those that are working at many of them.  There was one
time another individual picked up a basket for us, because I can't
go in my name ... I couldn't eat any of the food that was in it, and
some had to be thrown out.  The gift cards are good though.
Angela

---

From: Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com>

To: "odspfi...@googlegroups.com" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, December 8, 2010 11:00:11 PM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33225 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[Michael Bird]

I am allowed to go to the local food bank once every two months and the food comes in handy...

Mike

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

Star,

How many here have ever had to use the services of a food bank?

 

You might have to click on 'show quoted text'  to see complete email.

May God be with you...



[StarTears]

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Chris Carey <chris...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

Star,

Liver is an excellent food and one that I forgot to mention. 

It sucks to be diabetic, it can really complicate other health matters. 

sure does.  i also have that hypothyroidism deal so fighting weight is such an uphill battle its insane as insulin is a weight producing hormone to boot.  the best way to classify my diabetes is brittle but more accurate is that i have no pattern.  i am a true type 1 but my pancreas lasted out for 7 years before it completely shut down at age 20.  therefore i am in a pretty unique but horrible set of circumstances of not patterns but stallings i guess where my body's metabolism is completely gone.  there are times it goes into overdrive then others when it goes to sleep but it mostly sleeps.  because i have had this diabetes lurking for likely my entire life [its very distant over over in my fathers side] i was never tested for it even though i was completely unlike any of my mothers family in stature or size my entire life.  [doesn't help when your mom is 4' and a bit pudgy for that height and your dad is nearly 7' and a rail either] i've never eaten unhealthy but when the thirst of diabetes started taking over i could NOT help myself from drinking everything constantly.  i was drinking so much pepsi that i got an ulcer by 16 years old but i was losing weight significantly.  when i graduated grade 8 i was nearly 400lbs and when i was diagnosed i was just under 140lbs.  there were no explinations for anything until diagnosis.  its been a struggle to say the least without any answers until diagnosis but that wasn't much of an answer or solution really.  i have always eaten healthy, only improper 'portions' my entire life have been with salad, vegetables and at times pasta because i grew up with italians so those kinds of carbs are my downfall.  a huge plate of spaghetti...blissful.  i certainly never ate to my 'size'. everyone has their comfort food that they cannot get enough of and go overboard on though.  mine is still pasta but i know i can't have it.  doesn't help living above an italian resturant now either haha.

anyways, i find shortcuts and sneaks around the food world having been on both sides of the fence and being an excellent cook.  thelowcarbgrocery.com in toronto has an excellent selection of items that are VERY healthy and great subsitutes.  miracle noodles are the latest i am going to get myself with some of the xmas money i will get from family and see how they work along with a couple bottles of my davinci syrups for coffee.  i recall seeing several comments about coffee, yes it is good for you.  as long as its good coffee.  has antioxidants, anti carcegens and a whole bunch of great things to boost your autoimmune system but it depends on how good the beans are in the first place.  tim hortons eehhh not so great.  a cup of fair trade light or dark roast coffee from that nice cafe on the corner [or even starbucks for $2] with cane sugar rather than white or one of their flavour shots and if you are watching your dairy fat elsewhere, then feel free to go with whatever cream choice is a healthy choice.  for those who do not know, darker the roast lesser the caffeine.  at starbucks by the way, buy a $5 red card...register it and reload it.  you get LOTS of stuff free with a registered card- free syrup, free soya milk, free refills....lots of extra $ stuff but with your card they are free and the RED card gives 5 cents to the AIDS project in africa every cup you buy.

for the record, my chosen name IS star.  soon to be my legal name as well. xx

[StarTears]

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Juliette H. <sta...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Star Tears...I was the one talking about tomatoes, but I didn't talk about acidity. I have a problem with the ones that are sold in the store because all the stuff they put into them.

ahhh yes...i thought it might be you juliette but hey i can barely remember my own name! the only tomatoes you may want to try canned are the san marzanio ones because they are ones straight from italy, can ONLY be grown in italy and nothing is added to them.  they are an especially sweet variety but are SO good. they are about $1.50 or a bit more a large can but are so worth it.  even a few to a huge pot of sauce can add that special something. the process that these go by are picked, cleaned and instantly canned.  they don't have any additives....louis pasteur who is mostly falsely credited for the canning process, the original one if used for these tomatoes.  the taking out of air and pressurizing the can is what makes them stop their riping process, nothing more.  these tomatoes WILL rot sitting on the shelf for years.   they come out in such small batches that they rarely if ever sit around long enough for that to even be thought of happening.  unico has a gold label with theirs and as far as i know are the only company that has any in canada now.  most sauces in italy are made exclusively with these tomatoes.  i suggest you give them a try with a small batch if you come across some and see how they go over....even just with some macaroni onion garlic tomatoes [oh i miss eating that lol] with some fresh parma reggiano on it. 

ok i am glad you found my cooking tips useful but i gotta go i am making myself hungry. ;-p

star

 

[Marilyn Hamilton]

Chris...I have had to use my local foodbank here in KW. I am very
fortunate that they will deliver to me as I cannot get out, nor have
anyone to pick things up for me. I can use them 6 times per year and
they try to send food that is suitable for a diabetic diet. For the
most part they do send large quantities of fresh fruit and veggies
when possible. I have nothing but the highest praise for the foodbank
here.

mar
kw

[Annie]

On 08/12/2010 11:00 PM, Chris Carey wrote:
> How many here have ever had to use the services of a food bank?
>

I have numerous times in the last 20 or so years. ... Not for a long
time now, it's difficult to get there. Ours here in town is OK for a
food bank, they've always tried to be helpful.

Annie

[chris...@rocketmail.com]

Michael,

Sorry, if this sounds like a dumb question...What do you mean when you say,"allowed"?

Chris

Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.

---

From: Michael Bird <michae...@gmail.com>

Sender: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 00:31:05 -0500

To: <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33234 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

[Juliette H.]

Jejeje...I have the same problem so I just give up, if I remember good if not I let it go, otherwise I have a headache :)...I will try to find the ones you are saying, I tried many, got sick so I quit trying and I just decided to go with the old school and made my own :). I really, really love pasta and you made me hungry :), but now I can't cook buuuaaa...we have a problem with the electric main board of the house and they have to change it completely, but it could take time so I can't use anything to cook right now! I hope it won't take weeks to be fixed! as soon as I have it, pasta will be my choice :). I'll save your e-mail. Thank you and have a wonderful day! Juliette.

[Juliette H.]

You have chosen a beautiful name for yourself!!! I always used it to chat online, when I decided to change my name I went with this one.It sounded nice to my ears :). I grew up for a bit in France and it seems that the sound of it still is in my head :). But I could have chosen star, I'm mesmerized by stars!

I'm sorry that you have such health problems, it's difficult also when you know how to cook and have to deprive yourself. I can't drink coffee as I used to because my heart doesn't like it, so I just have around a cup per day that I divide in several adding hot water. Definitely not Tim Hortons ever, I can't sleep for 24hs when I drink it. Starbucks is different...I will see that card you are saying, thank you for the tip. The coffee I buy is a colombian one from melitta, I only find it in Wal-Mart or Loblaws and I love the aroma. I prefer not to drink if it's not good as I can't have too much, so at least what I can have I want it good :).

My brother has diabetes but for his own fault because we don't have it in the family. He ate too much sugar all his life, he has type 2 and he almost went blind a couple of years ago. He has to be very careful now. I don't have too much sugar or salt, I don't like too much of any. Thank God no high cholesterol or similar. Just huge digestive and colon problems plus allergies, but I came to terms with both as I had them forever. I had hepatitis when I was 9 years old and from there I was never the same. And because I love to eat well I learned as much as I could. We have a good population of Italians in the country I was born so our diet includes pasta and it has to be very tasty :), not macaroni and cheese for example. My weight comes and goes so I stopped paying attention to it. I was always very careful not to take cortisone. My father was a pharmacologist and he taught me a lot about medications. I prefer the pain and not the weight or loosing bone mass. I go to doctors to get diagnosed but I use essential oils or alternative therapies as much as I can. They had help me a lot with pain, anxiety, etc. Plus the less medication I take better my quality of life, and I do the same with my children. They hadn't taken antibiotics for years. Plus I'm not scared about things like swine flu and such. My son's mother in law got it last year and she was taken to the hospital from her work because she fainted. She was so scared and crying when I talked to her! I just sent my son to the store to buy the necessary oils and in a couple of days she was working as if nothing happened. 

I had a molar taken a couple of days with tons of recommendations from the dentist...don't eat this, don't rinse, don'ts......used my oils, ate normally, talked normally, rinsed normally, brushed my teeth etc., no pain no infection. And that's how I deal with digestion, colon, etc. so I eat normally, just avoid what is not good for me as the better my body stays better my life quality to deal with my painful problems.

I really hope that all the campaign about ending poverty goes somewhere because the better we eat better is our health. Without the special diet, even if I don't get the maximum I'm able to live better. Gotta go now. Nice talking to you and thank you for all the tips!. Juliette.

---

Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 00:31:05 -0500

Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33235 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced
From: star...@gmail.com
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

--

[Juliette H.]

Add me in your facebook if you want, I play those games also :). Thanks. Juliette.

---

[Juliette H.]

I used them but I can't now because I don't have any near. When I have an emergency I have a church that I call to and they give me a gift certificate for the supermarket for $50 (St. Vincent the Paul), but I try not to abuse it because they have too many people to help so just if I really, really need it. If I had a food bank near I would go for sure, they are an awesome help, at least the one I used to go. Juliette.

---

[Juliette H.]

You're welcome and you are right. Nonetheless everybody has it very hard in their own way. Having a disability is already a difficult life. Yet so many able bodies can't see it! Newspapers should publish one of these kind of stories every single day, so people start to pay attention and they don't judge us so hard. To me all their opinions are misinformation and doesn't help that ODSP is mixed with OW. Juliette.

[Uppity Woman]

Some of us are very protective of our privacy.   Uppity     -------Original Message-------

[Lorene]

How do they deliver the food to you? What I mean, don't you have to go
down to register and show ID and proof in person? I am curious about
that.

I understand from reading the London Free Press newspaper yesterday it
said the London Food Bank has volunteer drivers deliver food for those
in serious need. I was very surprised to read that as I never heard
they have drivers to drive food home for you. I am wondering how would
do that? What if you are disabled and can't get out, how can you show
proof if you are on OW or ODSP to get foo?

Lorene

[chris...@rocketmail.com]

star,

You've had some battle, wow. Diabetes is increasing so rapidly in the general population that sometimes its easy to forget that it affects everyone differently and that there are different forms of the disease, thanks.

I have an aunt with diabetes, I'll pass on your tips to her.

[chris...@rocketmail.com]

Marilyn,

That's great that your food bank delivers to you. I had no idea that food banks had such Dickensian limits about how often a person can use their services...Before odsp, whenever I didn't have any money, which was often, I just ate pasta and salad dressing.

[Marilyn Hamilton]

Lorene I called up the Food Bank and explained that I am on ODSP and
CPP-D. I am in a wheelchair, on oxygen and have other health issues as
well that make it very, very difficult for me to go outside to do
things. I have no car, family or friends in the area so I have to rely
on companies that deliver i.e. Grocery Gateway for example.

Anyway when I told the Food Bank this they took down my information,
asked me about dietary requirements and said they could send someone
to deliver the next day whereupon I was to show them/give them my
proof of I.D. etc. They keep all the people in a data base so when I
require the Food Bank I call them up, tell them my name, they look my
file up and we go from there. Again they do NOT normally deliver but
because of my situation they will do it.

I also have found that M & M Meats in my area will also allow me to
call in an order and they will deliver and I pay cash for the products.

People I have found, at least in the KW area will tend to help in
situations where someone cannot get out. I ask everytime. The worst
they can say is no, but I find that has not been the case with me.
Guess I have lucky horseshoe underwear.

mar
kw
p.s. I use the direct deposit stub from my ODSP and my driver's
licence as proof of I.D. Plus they can always call and verify as well.
I think I had to sign a form saying I was who I was. It's been so long
I really can't remember.

[Marilyn Hamilton]

Chris, yes I am fortunate that I have found companies and people who
will deliver items to me. Many times when my late husband and I had no
money and before he was on ODSP combined with my ODSP and CPPD, we
lived on porridge and peanut butter sandwiches for weeks on end.
Whatever we managed to have in the pantry at the time. You do what you
have to do to survive!

mar
kw

[Michael Bird]

Hey Chris:  maybe I should have written 'I may go to the food bank every two months... 6 times a year...'

This is a standard for a single person in Elgin County...

cheers, Mike

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:46 AM, <chris...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

Michael,

Sorry, if this sounds like a dumb question...What do you mean when you say,"allowed"?

Chris

 

Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 33234 ] Re: Changes to the Special Diet Program Announced

I am allowed to go to the local food bank once every two months and the food comes in handy...

Mike

You might have to click on 'show quoted text'  to see complete email.