President's Choice Banking

[Lorene]

I like to tell you of my experience of President's Choice banking.
Last fall I had filed bankruptcy. I know I have bad credit right now.

My mom and I sign up for PC banking at Loblaws store on Nov 21st.
There was no problem with my mom as she had her driver's license and
birth certificate or something like that. With me, I only had OHIP
card with my picture on it and my birth certiface and my SIN card. I
do not have driver's license and never ever did. We got signed up and
got our PC debit cards. I was told any money I would deposit will be
held for 7 days at first. I thought he meant only the first time I
deposit the money. After that, I would be okay to deposit and get
groceries on the same day or few day after. So on that day I put $40
cash in PC bank. My mom was not told the same thing about the 7 day
rule.

Anyways, I went shopping last Friday Jan 30 and used my PC debit card.
It wouldn't work. It said "NO INSUFFICENT OR WAS SUFFICENT (I forget)
FUNDS. I couldn't understand why. I knew I had about $8 some dollars
in it. So I used my other Canada Trust debit card to pay for my
groceries. I didn't stop at the bank to ask because there was no one
around inside.

Then on Wed Feb 4, I deposit $35 in PC account. Then I went to Loblaws
on Fri Feb 6 for some specials I want to get according to the grocery
store flyer. I used my PC debit card again. The groceries came to $21
plus. I got the same message as above the paragraph I just mentioned
again. I couldn't understand why my card wouldnt' work. Fortunately I
had $25 cash on me and used that instead.

I went to the bank place inside Loblaws where I approached the lady
who was working there. I told her of my problem. She took my card and
asked for my other ID with my name on it. No problem. She checked and
said, "I have bad credit (which I already know that) and whenever I
deposit money into PC account will be 7 days for 6 months." I am
thinking the money I deposit is cash and I wouldn't ever use cheques
to deposit to my account. Why hold cash for 7 days straight? That
don't make sense. I was so upset and peeved. I told the lady I was
told at the signup, it would only be the first time that I deposit and
held for 7 days when I signed up. I thought that was no problem.

I meant to ask her (but wasn't thinking because I was so angry) that
what would have happened if I had switched my ODSP Pension and CPP
widow's pension over to PC bank and everything else whether if they
would hold the money for 7 days. If so, that would mean the rent I pay
to the landlord, money I owe to cable, newspaper, other bills that
come off automatically off my bank account on the 1st day of each
month would likely be rejected or something like NSF and I would get
stuck with NSF charges. I likely be starving until the 7th comes and I
can go buy groceries and the landlord would throw me out on the street
for not paying rent on time. That is not fair.

I can understand banks holding cheques, (depending what kind of
cheques) for 7 days, but not cash. That seems like an odd policy.

I guess you need a good credit record in order to join PC banking. But
for those who are on ODSP, CPP, OAS, OW, etc and filing bankruptcy.,
it would be hardship. I wanted to take advantage of PC points and also
free service fees. I was thinking after I finished paying the
bankruptcy fees in June of this year, I would switch everything over
from my Canada Trust bank to PC bank. I am thanking my lucky stars
that I didn't. I would be in big trouble paying bills if I couldn't
access PC bank because of this stupid rule withholding 7 days of
anything that is deposit. I think I will stay with Canada Trust as
they always have been good to me for 19 years.

The man whoever his name at Loblaws is the day we sign up on Nov 21
for PC debit card had a very thick accent. He is a foreigner. I don't
know what nationality he is. He was hard to understand over the noise
in the store background and people pushing shopping carts when you
hear them on the floor. Even my mom is hearing had a hard time
understanding him because she made him repeat what he was saying to
her 2 or 3 times. I was surprised because I thought it was just me
that is having trouble hearing him talk because I was hearing
impaired. I have to admit he was very nice and polite to us. Really he
was.

Besides that, I am so puzzled about my mom.. All she had was driver's
license, some other ID, but no SIN she didn't bring. I just remembered
her Seniors Card that she just received last summer when she turned
65. She bought that card with her. The man did not ask her for her SIN
card no to put in the application. I noticed that, buy didn't say
anything. When her application was completed on the computer, he told
her "Your credit is good and that she can apply for credit card or
something she like for up to $1000." She didn't apply for one because
she was not interested. I am puzzled how can they tell my mom has good
credit when she did not bring her SIN card to show. How can they tell
by her driver's license that her credit is good? My mom never thought
of when I mentioned to her about that when we left the store and now
is wondering how can they tell why her credit is good. He never asked
her from memory what her SIN card number is. So you tell me how he can
tell her credit is good from using your driver's license? To me that
is very odd.

Lorene

[Annie]

I understand the getting a pc master card is very easy. I got one
without any hassle, to the tune of $3000. Just Crazy.... I only use the
(forgot what it's called) just show your card to the machine and viola
it's done.. That part i like but only useful at gas station... It is
nuts when you think about it, here's me on
ODSP and they're giving me charge cards.. Nutty
Annie

[Andrea Heward]

They must have gotten her birth date and full name from the drivers licence.  Do a credit check with that information and viola....credit check and sin number instantly 

 

[corrinna]

I know people who have PC Bank accounts.
They withhold their funds for 7 days as well, regardless
of whether it is cash, cheque or otherwise. The reason
is because PC Banking is a "virtual bank".
No actual physical building exists. Any deposits made
are via ATM, and the bank machine does not know
if it is cash/cheque, whatever. If you Mom gave this
guy her driver's license, it is likely he was able to pull up her SIN
number from that. That is why I personally chose to not have
a PC Bank account, the 7 day holds, and it being a virtual
bank only. They will tell you that if you ask them. I know
they are underwritten or a subsidiary or whatever you
call it of CIBC.

[Pippi Longstocking]

> From: sym...@yahoo.com
> I like to tell you of my experience of President's Choice banking <snip>

I have used PC Financial for a year and love it.
To clarify: they are NOT a bank,they are a financial services company and although it has some banking services, it is not the same thing.

BEFORE you sign up there are pages of forms and booklets that outline everything that should know.
BEFORE you sign any contract you should read and ask questions.

You can also go to their website and read about services, policies and more.

When I signed up, it was clear in their paperwork that deposits are held until they can see that they are valid.

At every financial institution, there is a serious problem at insta-tellers ( ie bank machines) with people putting in fake deposits ( as if money or cheques in the envelope) when it is a scam.
Look in the media to see that hundreds of thousands of dollars were taken in Stratford Ontario a few weeks ago in this way.

Read everything carefully and decide who you which to do finances with based on how it best meets your needs.

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[Frank]

Annie, you realize you are going to have to pay for those purchases, eventually. Take care, Frank. _________________________________________________ When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Annie <hug...@cogeco.ca> wrote:

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[Annie]

Oh Frank, even I'm not that dumb... Like I said I'm not using it except
for the whatever cost that I use for gas etc.
Then when i get home,, I pay for them. I never want a balance of any sort.

[Slim Pickens]

It's best not to give anyone other than a gov't agency your SIN
number. This had been an advisory from the federal government.

[Ugly Me]

Which makes it tricky for those of us who desire part time employment when a
SIN is requested on a job application.
It rarely happens but indeed, when I leave it blank they never call me for
an interview.
Then again, despite all the false open attitudes and inclusiveness crap, it
seems hardly anybody wants to hire someone with a disability.

[Andrea Heward]

Have you tried the employment supports program that ODSP offers?

[abrowne]

Andrea, Many people have tried them.  My husband is on his third service provider, nobody seems to have any jobs.  The only job they found for him lasted three days at four hours a day, which was a job they KNEW he was not able to handle. Me?  Though I have disabilities and was on his cheque, I am technically eligible, but I never got any support despite repeated requests.  I was on my own virtually for everything.  Now I am stuck appealing decisions re my husband's ODSP because of having to maintain my business MY way (because they certainly wouldn't give me any help THEIR way). Besides now, I think in this recession, the only concern this government has is to ensure laid off workers have another job to go to, not getting people with disabilities -- who are always in a recession -- to lift themselves out of perpetual poverty. I personally wouldn't even count on the 2% increase. Angela

[Lorene]

I finally heard from President's Choice Bank representative by email.
Here is what he had to say. Read below. I copied and pasted a small
portion from my Yahoo email.

When you make a deposit through a bank machine, a temporary hold is
placed on the funds until the amount is verified. Your welcome letter
identifies how long the hold will remain on the funds and how much you
can withdraw immediately from your deposits.

We rely on the information provided by the credit bureau when we
establish a banking relationship with you. Your hold limits are based
upon the information received from your application, as well as that
obtained from the credit bureau. This information is different for
every applicant and therefore, the hold limits and access to funds
vary from customer to customer.

To request a review of your holds, please contact a representative at
1-888-872-4724. Assistance is available seven days a week from 7:00
a.m. to midnight local time across Canada. Such a review is subject to
the length of time you have held accounts with President's Choice
Financial, the frequency and nature of deposits you have been making.

I can understand your frustration at not being able to access the
amount right away. If possible, I recommend that you have pay cheques
or other regular payments deposited directly to your account.

Thank you for visiting www.pcfinancial.ca.

Sincerely,


Sounds like I have to make regular deposits every so often that they
will take the holds off in my account.

Lorene

[Andrea Heward]

I hear ya angela....I also suspect it has something to do with the differences in community.  For example.  Where I live if you go to employment supports you get a "sponsor"  someone who helps you step by step.  You choose your sponser.  For the most part it is a sponsor from an organization that is related to your disabilites.  So for arguments sake lets say March of Dimes, the catchall.  March of Dimes would then be the go between between you and your employer, any issues etc....they also meet with you once a week to see how its going, and they do that for 6 months and in some cases up to a year.  They are called a job shadow.  Sometimes if there is a conflict at work your shadow can come and mediate the problem.  They also offer the employer 60 percent of your wages (grant style) if they keep you more than 3 months and will continue to pay this for a year.  But they also sign the same contract that says after that year they must keep you on after the contract is complete.  Meaning they cant "lay you off" or something like that just because your contact expired.  

[abrowne]

Andrea, This has changed in 2006.  Only service providers get paid, and ONLY when they placed you and you remain in the job for 13 weeks or more.  There is no more technical supports, unless your disability is clearly physical (and this comes from another fund of the E/S).  The wage grant is federal, but has since been transferred to the provinces through Employment Ontario. Service providers can tap into this fund, but they have to go to an approved service provider for the targeted wage subsidy to co-ordinate the file. The economics of this results in service providers placing people in the easiest jobs to acquire ... that is, the lowest-wage, the highest-turnover and lowest-skilled.  It does not necessarily mean the person is placed in the most appropriate positions.  Not saying it doesn't work for ANYBODY, but for those that need more support than what is offered generically, or for those that seek employment beyond the minimum wage, low skill level, it is not a good fit.  It is not the fault of the service providers, but when you are obviously not going to get paid to be creative or develop innovative programs like they once were able to, it acts as a sharp disincentive for some service providers.  About half of the ones I was aware of when I did this work up until 2005-2006 are no longer doing this work. The only people who were able to get jobs here are working in greenhouses (and none of the ones I knew that got hired there lasted), telemarketing (with mixed results) and retail.  People like myself that may need help growing a business, or people seeking higher advanced work are on their own with no help or support whatsoever.

Angela --- On Sun, 2/8/09, Andrea Heward <andrea...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Re-Purposed]

You can solve this with direct deposit.
They hold everyones funds that are deposited in the machine. It
hasn't got anything to do with your personal credit.
It's because they need to ensure there's actually money deposited and
not empty envelopes.
There's no need to mention your bankrupcy.

Your case worker should have forms available to set up the direct
deposit.
Phone the PC number on the back of your debit card.
Explain you need direct deposit and funds released to pay rent and buy
groceries.
You can get direct deposit for all government cheques.

Also, when shopping, tell the cashier you have your own bags and are
using you pc card before she totals the bill and you will get pc
points, which do add up.

[mking101]

I had a similar problem with PC bank. I was working and they put a
hold on my paycheck. Nortel had their lawyer call and complain and
they took the hold off. I closed my account. They clear the ATMs every
day and should see it is cash or ODSP cheque when they open the
envelope. There is no excuse for this discrimination. I bank with
ScotiaBank and can put money in up to $500 and take it right back out.

You are correct in the reason. But they should not put holds for 7
days.

[mking101]

There was a man who fell for a Nigerian 419 scam. He got a letter that
he had won a lottery and cashed the cheque for $500,000. The scam in
most cases is you cash a large cheque, keep a small amount for your
payment, and wire the rest through Western Union to someone. The
cheque comes back fake and you have to reimburse the bank. This man
lost his house, car, and wife, and is still paying the Royal Bank
back.

On Feb 7, 10:37 am, Pippi Longstocking <bentchick...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> > From: syme...@yahoo.com

> > I like to tell you of my experience of President's Choice banking <snip>
>

> When I signed up, it was clear in their paperwork that deposits are held until they can see that they are valid.
>
> At every financial institution, there is a serious problem at insta-tellers ( ie bank machines) with people putting in fake deposits ( as if money or cheques in the envelope) when it is a scam.
> Look in the media to see that hundreds of thousands of dollars were taken in Stratford Ontario a few weeks ago in this way.
>
> Read everything carefully and decide who you which to do finances with based on how it best meets your needs.
>

> _________________________________________________________________
> The new Windows Live Messenger. You don’t want to miss this.http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx

[mking101]

I got a part-time job here in Ottawa at a vet hospital, and thought it
would be nice to send the service provider a daily report of what I
had done. I found that he was changing my name to his and sending them
on (I am a writer by training) to ODSP and getting paid $700 a week
for that. I did not like this and quit that provider.

I do have a friend that got a job at Wal-Mart as a greeter and she has
been there over a year.
mk

[Lorene]

Re-Purposed <folkharp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You can solve this with direct deposit. They hold everyones funds that
are deposited in the machine. It hasn't got anything to do with your
personal credit. It's because they need to ensure there's actually
money deposited and not empty envelopes. There's no need to mention
your bankrupcy.

I never said one word about bankruptcy to them. Somehow they knew
almost right away when they input all my personal info into the
computer and goes right thru to some credit file they check up in
minutes. No matter what you do, you can't get away with your bad
credit when they find out easily. It was the lady who works at the PC
bank who said to my face, "It is because of my bad credit they will
put holds for 7 days in my account." My mom was a new customer at the
same time when we both signed up and was never told they will put
holds on anything in her account. She was able to use the card to get
groceries, no problem. But there is a problem with my card.

I put the money into the CIBC ATM machine. There is one close by about
10 minutes from where I live. Going to Loblaws or Superstore was too
far by city bus to put cash into the ATM machine, so I used the CIBC
machine. You would think the CIBC teller checks the right amount of
cash that I deposit every day and lets PC bank know it was alright.
Why put a hold on it for 7 days? I did tell my credit counsellor about
this and she told me today by email that she used to work in the bank
many years ago. She said because I am a new customer, the bank's
standard procudeure is hold put a hold for 7 days on anything for the
first 6 months. I can understand that by depositing cheques they put a
hold to be sure it would clear or not, etc, but not cash. I have never
had cash withheld for 7 days whenever I make a deposit all my life
from Bank of Montreal (I hate that bank), Royal Bank, CIBC and Canada
Trust, even when I was a customer and don't have a picture ID, like
driver's license. I only have a OHIP with picture, which, is not
allowed to be shown at the bank. I did have a City Bus Pass with my
picture and guess what, they accept that at the PC bank.

However I am going to start small at first. When my bankruptcy clears
by this summer, I will put GST and Income Tax Refunds in the PC bank
account and see what happens if they put a hold or not. I will get my
GST reinstated by July. I will need to get a Direct Deposit form from
Revenue Canada. I think I can get it online and print out.

Lorene

[Frank]

>>>, and thought it would be nice to send the service provider a daily report<<<

Who is the service provider? Don't let them getaway with it. You've been robbed and allowed the cheater to rob ODSP. Do you realize you on the hook if ODSP ever does a financial audit.

Take care, Frank. _________________________________________________ When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

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[Bonnie Briggs]

Hi,
You can put cheques and get money out right away? You're lucky. I'm in Scotiabank too, and any time I've put a cheque in the machine, it's held for five days. I've since learned to deposit any cheques I get at the teller, that way, I can get money out without having to wait. It's a bit of a pain in the ass on weekends, but it's a lot less hassle, believe me. I was advised by a teller that if I'm going to put a cheque into the bank machine, to photocopy it first, then I have something to show the teller in order to get the hold removed. However, my ODSP cheque is direct deposit, makes my life a lot simpler.
Bonnie

> I had a similar problem with PC bank. I was working and they
> put a
> hold on my paycheck. Nortel had their lawyer call and
> complain and
> they took the hold off. I closed my account. They clear the
> ATMs every
> day and should see it is cash or ODSP cheque when they open
> the
> envelope. There is no excuse for this discrimination. I
> bank with
> ScotiaBank and can put money in up to $500 and take it
> right back out.
>
> You are correct in the reason. But they should not put
> holds for 7
> days.
>

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[Frank]

>>>I'm in Scotiabank too, and any time I've put a cheque in the machine, it's held for five days. <<<

If you have been a customer for a few years, tell them to stop. There is no reason for this to be done to you. My RBC places no such constraints on me. I would be insulted if they did, especially being a customer for 30 years.

Take care, Frank. _________________________________________________ When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

[Re-Purposed]

Lorene wrote: "I did have a City Bus Pass with my

picture and guess what, they accept that at the PC bank. "

hurmph...I tried to get my sons a PC account with city of London
issued photo I.D. and was told they only accepted drivers licencses or
passports neither of which I can afford.

[misspatricia]

 

Since we r all talking bout our banks

I deal with Canada Trust and they r absolutely terrific

 

Patrice

 

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[corrinna]

Agreed, TDCanada Trust has been great to me.

--------------------------------------------------

[Slim Pickens]

Regarding disclosure of SIN - when applying for a job tell the company
you'd be happy to supply your SIN if you get the job. Of course then
they'd need it then for tax purposes.

[Slim Pickens]

I don't know about PC MasterCard but an astute bookkeeper warned me
about using my regular Mastercard for cash. Someone had put sand in
our bank machine and I was attempting to access cash after hours. I
decided to head to a store and get $50 on my credit card. The
bookkeeper informed me I would pay interest from that day forth,
unlike purchasing an item. And I could have been paying it for 20+days
until my statement arrived. Fortunately I ran into her before I
proceeded with the transaction.

[Ugly Me]

----- Original Message -----
From: "mking101" <mkin...@rogers.com>
To: "ODSP Fireside" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: [odspfireside: 21068 ] Re: President's Choice FINANCIAL

>There was a man who fell for a Nigerian 419 scam. He got a letter that
>he had won a lottery and cashed the cheque for $500,000. The scam in
>most cases is you cash a large cheque, keep a small amount for your
>payment, and wire the rest through Western Union to someone. The
>cheque comes back fake and you have to reimburse the bank. This man
>lost his house, car, and wife, and is still paying the Royal Bank
>back.

Not sure how one can fall for a scam such as that.
For example, legitimate lotteries don't require surcharges or co-payments
etc.
Based on Canadian laws for unsolicited mail, he could keep the cheque and
not have to forward any payment.
Especially if it was in his name.
I don't see how he'd have to adhere to "foreign" laws pertaining to a
lottery he never entered.
Some banks will charge you for a cheque you deposit that bounces, but not
all will do this.
Other than that the poor guy shouldn't have been out any money. A drag.

I got a similar email at one time. I said, "great! Fork over the loot!"
They emailed back saying I need to pay some weird service charge.
Okay. I said to skim it off the top and send me the balance.
Nope. Can't do that <g>
I wonder if it would suffice to send them a cheque from an account I closed
long ago.

[Frank]

>>>Based on Canadian laws for unsolicited mail, he could keep the cheque and not have to forward any payment.<<<

You missed the point, the cheque is bogus. If you deposit it, then you withdraw the amount minus your fee and send a money order to the final destination. Then they get the money order, of which, is valid, whereas you get broke as their cheque they gave you bounced. The bank then cease what cash assets you have and take you to court for any balance. So hang onto their cheque if you want to and not forward any money, this way, you can be rich on paper only. Heck, light a cigar with the the cheque, the most expensive smoke you'll ever have. Take care, Frank. _________________________________________________

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

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