Re: ODSP Retroactive (Back Pay)

[jbkeh]

This one is a bit messy...

Your Date of Grant is August 1, 2013, no matter how long it took to confirm this.

You are owed back-pay from ODSP covering August 1, 2013 up to and including the month before you are transferred from OW to ODSP. The amount owed to you will have the gf situation taken into account. (This is what ODSP should have paid you for this period.)
You owe OW any overpayment incurred prior to September 2013 (if such exists) plus all the money they actually paid you (after any overpayment deductions) for September 2013 up to and including the month before you are transferred to ODSP. (This is what OW should not have paid you for this period.)

Note the one-month shift in the overlap. This is to compensate for the fact that OW pays for any given month at its beginning, while ODSP pays for the same month at its end. This means your last actual OW payment that you receive at the beginning of the month in which you are transferred to ODSP is deducted from the ODSP payment for that same month which is paid at the end. Thus, your first ODSP payment is substantially reduced and you must keep back some of your back-pay to cover this.

ODSP will deduct the money owed OW from your back-pay and send it to them. If there is insufficient back-pay to cover the outstanding debt to OW, ODSP will create an overpayment on their behalf and make deductions from your ODSP benefit (usually 5%, no more than 10%) until the overpayment is satisfied.

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:31:57 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Lachance wrote:

...would i get backpay from August 2013 until June 2014 (10 Months) plus October and November too ?
i just got approved on Nov 20th

[jbkeh]

Well, actually, no you don't. In June, July, August 2014, OW should not have been paying you at all - you should have been on ODSP as of August 1, 2013.

ODSP must take the gf situation into account when they calculate the back-pay starting August 1, 2013 owed to you by ODSP up to and including the month before you are transferred from OW to ODSP. They will then subtract whatever money OW actually paid you in the time frame starting September 1, 2013 up to and including the month before you are transferred from OW to ODSP. Finally, they will subtract the outstanding amount of the first OW overpayment as it was immediately after the start of September 1, 2013. These two amounts that are subtracted are sent to OW by ODSP - you never get to see the money. (And your debt to OW is cleared.)

Now it is possible that when ODSP calculates the amount of back-pay owed to you in light of the gf situation (as it applies to ODSP), there will not be enough to cover the amount which is to be sent to OW. In that case, ODSP will open their own overpayment against you for the difference and begin recovery.

I cannot help but observe that you have achieved multiple overpayment situations in a very short time period. Your file will have all sorts of flags attached. Be prepared for an extremely intense intake interview when you are transferred from OW to ODSP and expect frequent financial reviews for some time after.

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:52:41 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Lachance wrote:

I did infact have an overpayment owed to them but it got all paid off in November of 2013. But June July august 2014 I owe them 712 ( 626 plus my special.diet 86) x 3 months

[jbkeh]

As I said, it's messy...

If I  understand things correctly:
You made a completed application for ODSP in July 2013. ODSP said no.
You kept pressing your application and ODSP continued to say no.
On August 26, 2014 your case was heard by the Social Benefits Tribunal.

At this point, things are a bit unclear...

Either the SBT did not make a determination on the day of your hearing and the letter of November 20, 2014 is from the SBT giving their decision

Or

The SBT did make a determination on the day of your hearing and the letter of November 20, 2014 is from ODSP/DAU acknowledging the SBT decision.

Either way, you should have a letter stating that your ODSP Date of Grant is August 1, 2013 and whether a future review of your medical qualification will be held. PLEASE CONFIRM THIS ASSUMPTION.

In short, the SBT is telling ODSP that they were wrong to deny you payment for August 2013 onward and telling OW that they were wrong to pay you any money for September 2013 onward. Said another way, ODSP owes you the money you should have received for August 2013 up to and including the month before you are transferred from OW to ODSP and you owe OW all the money they actually (as in money in the bank) gave you for September 2013 up to and including the month before you are transferred from OW to ODSP. Unfortunately, this "correction" will also negate your repayment of the remaining original OW overpayment as of September, 2013, so that will also have to be reclaimed (you paid it originally in September, October and November 2013, the "correction" will unpay it, so you have to pay it again). All of this will be done by ODSP when you are transferred from OW to ODSP.

When will this transfer occur? When ODSP gets around to it. It's supposed to be in 20 days from the determination that you are qualified for ODSP, but December is a short month (books have to be closed more than a week early) and ODSP / OW are switching to a "new" computer system which apparently is a disaster. It may actually not occur until sometime in the first three weeks of January.

As for the Special Diet (and other "extra" benefits common to both OW and ODSP), they are "carried over" from OW to ODSP, but only for three months; in that time you must re-apply for them from ODSP or they cease.

There will be no ODSP "overpayment" because of the gf and child, since ODSP will be fully aware of the situation when they calculate the ODSP back-pay (before the OW subtractions). You were not cut off (received no money) because you are living with a gf and are the parent of her child (being in a spousal relationship makes them part of your benefit unit and increases your Benefit Requirements) but because as a member of your benefit unit, her earnings exceeded (by more than double) your OW Benefit Requirements. Your ODSP Benefit Requirements are somewhat higher and it is more likely that this will not occur under ODSP valuations. 
 

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:56:40 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Lachance wrote:

I don't understand why you say I should've been on odsp since Aug 2013 when I wasn't even accepted until Nov 20 2014

[jbkeh]

Please do not make me beg for information!

WHO said you were "approved for odsp"? The SBT? ODSP/DAU? (Who wrote the letter of November 20?)

WHY is the "date of grant" November 20? Is that 2014 or 2013? If you successfully challenged the denial of your original completed application at the SBT, the date of grant should be August 1, 2013. Are you confusing the date the letter was written with the Date of Grant? Did you abandon the original application and file a later one?

Since you were informed that there will be a medical review after three years, I would guess that the letter of November 20 came from ODSP / DAU. Where is the written decision of the SBT? That written decision should state the Date of Grant and unless you abandoned the original application or it was not actually "completed" until a later date, that Date of Grant should be August 1, 2013.

Is this December 4 meeting with your OW worker or your ODSP worker?

What was / is the employment status of the gf from the time she moved in with you?

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 7:37:01 PM UTC-5, Jonathan Lachance wrote:

I was approved for odsp

Nov 20 was date of grant
In 3 years they will do a review again

I have an appointment on Dec 4 with my worker

[Jonathan Lachance]

I'm so sorry I've confused you i feel like an idiot and I know you're trying to help me out with my questions

July 26th they recieved my finished application

I got my first denial in November and then I got a lawyer to help me out

We made internal review and that got denied

Then we got a SBT for august 2014
I went to that
And just got the letter November 20th
Stating I was approved

It says odsp has been granted but there is no date

November 20th is the date issued by the lady who did my SBT

This letter is from SBT on Toronto

The appeal is granted the decision of the respondent director is rescinded
The tribunal orders that if otherwise eligible income support shall be paid to the appellant in accordance with section 17 of O. Reg. 222/98 made pursuant to the act

Decision

The tribunal is satisfied that the appellant is a person worth a disability within the meaning of section 4(1) of the act

I been granted for 3 years them will set what happens after that

I hope this is the information you need

[Jonathan Lachance]

Forgot to add the employment status when she moved in was she was on mat leave just had a baby

[Jonathan Lachance]

December 4 meeting is with odsp worker
I just got an odsp worker as of yesterday she called me and said to come in for Dec 4

[jbkeh]

Since there has not been a reply to my last post, I am going to forge ahead because if the December 4, 2014 meeting is with your ODSP worker, you are then indeed being transferred from OW to ODSP in December and you should be prepared.

First, let's be clear about the "Date of Grant". That is the date that ODSP started owing you money. It is not the date that somebody made the decision that you were eligible for ODSP. The "Date of Grant" is either the day that the DAU (the Disability Adjudication Unit of ODSP) received your completed application (called the Disability Determination Package)  or, as in your case, the first day of the following month if you are on OW at the time the completed application was made. Unless the DAU asked for more information after July 2013 or you made a new later application to the DAU or the SBT said something to the contrary, your "Date of Grant" is August 1, 2013.

All of the following assumes that August 1, 2013 is your "Date of Grant" and you are being transferred from OW to ODSP in December.

It cannot be stressed enough - it does not matter whether OW's calculations as to the amount they actually (as "in the bank") paid you from September 2013 onward were brilliantly accurate or utterly insane. Only the actual amounts paid to you by OW for September 2013 through December 2014 are of interest as now it has been determined that none of this OW money should ever have been paid to you in the first place and must be returned to them.

The repayment of this money to OW will "reset" things in regard to OW to the end of August 2013 and at that time you still had some part of an OW overpayment outstanding. This outstanding amount must also be repaid to OW.

What is this amount that must be repaid to OW? Easy:

1. Add up all the actual (in the bank) OW deposit or cheque amounts paid to you from the September 2013 payment (received near the end of August 2013) including any November 2014 payment (received near the end of October 2014). Do not include any December OW payment (received near the end of November 2014) as it will be dealt with separately.

2. Starting with the September 2013 OW payment (received near the end of August 2013), look for a line in the details that says something like "overpayment deduction" or "overpayment recovery". Add up these these amounts until they stop occurring (either November 2013 or December 2013).

3. Add (1) and (2) together. This is the amount that will be deducted from your total ODSP back-pay and sent to OW on your behalf. It will be a large number.

I said that it does not matter how OW made their calculations. Sadly, sometimes an ODSP worker will blindly apply OW's "reasoning" when calculating your ODSP back-pay. It is most important that your ODSP worker does not fall into the trap of assuming your OW worker had any idea at all of what they were doing. Your ODSP worker must start afresh and determine things according to the ODSP regulations.

A rough estimate is (assuming your actual shelter costs are never less than your Shelter Allowance maximum and your SDA does not change):

August 2013 payment - Basic Needs $596, Shelter Allowance $479, SDA $86, Total $1161

September 2013 through June 2014 payments  - Basic Needs $607, Shelter Allowance $479, SDA $86, for 10 months - Total $11720

July 2014 payment (first 6 days) $1172 * (6/31) - Total $226.84

Now things get interesting...

When on July 7, 2014 your gf (and child) joined you, they immediately became part of your Benefit Unit (in the eyes of ODSP and OW, she was your spouse then and there) and your Basic Needs increased to $893 while your Shelter Allowance increased to $816. (No, it does not matter that you didn't tell OW at the time.) This gives a total increase of $623 to $1795. This number is pro-rated by 25/31 for the remaining 25 days of July and the overall July total is actually $1674.42 ($1795 * 25 / 31 + $226.84).

Wait, there's more...

The baby has special nutritional needs for the first 12 months of its life. If the baby must be bottle-fed, then the baby (as part of your Benefit Unit) is paid a Special Diet Allowance of either $145 or $162, depending on whether the baby is lactose tolerant or not; if instead, the baby can be breast-fed, then the mother (as part of your Benefit Unit) is paid (but not through SDA) either $40 or $50 depending on whether the mother is lactose tolerant or not.

On top of that...

If your spouse or child has their own medical dietary needs covered by the SDA, they get them from July 2014 onward. (No, it does not matter that you are just now applying for them under ODSP - we are "rewriting" history because of ODSP's erroneous denial.)

And...

Don't forget drug/dental/vision for your spouse and baby. Any costs incurred that whould have been covered had ODSP not denied your application should be reimbursed.

BUT...(yes, there is always a "but")

A spouse has the potential to cause you to be financially disqualified.

One way is that she brings into the Benefit Unit sufficient "liquid" assets (money in any form, property other than the principle residence, a second car, high-value jewelry, art, furniture or clothing etc) so that your total Benefit Unit exceeds it asset limit of $8000. In this case you must "live off" those assets until they are less than $8000.

The other is that she brings in sufficient "chargeable" (deductible) earnings that your Benefit Requirements are reduced to zero. This is somewhat difficult as her gross earnings are discounted by her taxes, union dues, etc, then $200, then 50% of what remains and then any child-care costs (within some limits) required to allow her to work.

You will have to work out the result as you know the numbers and I do not. For the remaining 25 days of July 2014 you will have to pro-rate the numbers by 25/31. As long as she has earnings but does not reduce your Benefit Requirements to zero, your Benefit Unit gets an additional "Work-Related Benefit of $100.

August 2014 is calculated the same way without any pro-rating.

September 2014 onward sees a $12 increase in your Benefit Requirements.

Once you include November 2014, you have your total back-pay, which will be a large number. From this, ODSP will deduct every penny OW actually (in the bank) paid you for September 2013 onward (except for December 2014, which you received near the end of November) plus the remainder of the original OW overpayment that was still outstanding as of September 2013 (which is also a large number, but hopefully not as much).

A couple of days before Christmas, you will receive your first ODSP payment. From this, ODSP will deduct the last OW payment which you received (if any) near the end of November and all debt to OW then has been repaid. This means your first ODSP payment likely will be rather small and worse, it will be a long time until the January payment (near the end of that month). Make sure to keep enough of the back-pay to cover this drought.