Promise Received from Kingston MPP to raise ODSP issue in Legislature - long post about a process that seemed to work
wheelchairdemon
The following is a summary of an action that appeared to be successful in getting the ear of the MPP for Kingston and the Islands, John Gerretsen. I'm sharing it to give others inspiration, but also to let you know the ODSP issue was raised in the Legislature yesterday and a summary letter of the outcome will be sent to me shortly.
The posting is long so I'm going to index it.
1. A summary of how the KCAP rally (Kingston Coalition Against Poverty) rally and how I became involved and got the process rolling
2. A reply from John Gerretsen to say he would speak about it in the legislature yesterday, (April 4, 2011)
3. A reply from the Kingston office saying they were moving into fast action to get my letter into his hands quickly
4. The summary letter I wrote to outline the ODSP issues that we are facing. It includes some specific questions for the MPP to raise to Minister Meilleur.
On Friday K-CAP (Kingston Coalition Against Poverty) held a rally. We gathered at Skeleton Park, made some speeches, socialized and ate food brought to us by a Union, and then we marched down Princess St. to John Gerretsen's office. He's the MPP for Kingston.
An appointment had been scheduled but when we showed up in large numbers and the office said we couldn't record the meeting or take pictures, people got rather mad and loud mouthed. I don't blame them. Whatever happened to democracy? Are they afraid that what they said could be used against them? They're right, it can be. But if they are in power, are doing nothing, and refuse to let us use a device to record the proof, then we have to find some other way.
Eventually the MPP stuck his head out the door. The volume of the crowd got louder screaming for rights, and I screamed even louder over top of them. I asked the MPP, right there in the hall, why I had to deal with what I have to on ODSP... and I told a piece of my story. I said, I am disabled. I didn't commit a crime, and yet I am hungry.
He actually stopped and listened. A few minutes later, others chimed in with their stories. He then started to say, the government is making it better (referring to the special diet allowance). I pulled out my computer and the facts and tried to find the file that would show him proof of how they were not. I couldn't find it, but I did manage to find some other files that showed the cruelty of the program. I even found the directive 11.1 that says the clients, not the office workers, are accountable for income support calculation mistakes, and then asked him if a criminal that just murdered someone is required to self-report to the police?
He was now listening.
Finally, I asked him what he was going to do about it. He said he would talk to the Minister of Community and Social Services. I asked him if he would write up a report and share it with us. He said yes, he would send it to me. The K-CAP leader wanted it sent to him instead. John said he would send it to me, and me only. Yikes.
Anyway, I gave him my card with the contact info on it. He read it, saw I live in Rideaucrest Towers and then said he was responsible for building all that affordable housing.
I said thank you, but that was 20 years ago. Kingston now has one of the worst records in the province for vacancies now. I then quoted out the deprivation index that was just published by the Poverty Roundtable in Kingston.
As a form of follow up I wrote the following letter to MPP John Gerretsen on Monday morning and, because he said he would talk to Minister Madeline Meilleur on Monday I phoned the local office, explained that I was hoping to get the letter in his hands before he spoke, and asked what their recommendations were. They said I could forward it to their office and the Toronto office and they would look after it.
As you can see below, I got a quick response from both offices saying the ODSP issues will be discussed in the legislature today.
I consider this a start only, but it appears I have managed to get his ear and his willingness to raise the issue about the woefully inadequate ODSP rates.
This reply is from John Gerretsen's Toronto email address:
-------- Original Message --------
| Subject: | RE: A letter for John Gerretsen for his meeting today with Minister Meilleur |
|---|---|
| Date: | Mon, 4 Apr 2011 12:10:03 -0400 |
| From: | Gerretsen_John-MPP <jgerret...@liberal.ola.org> |
| To: | Louise <Roll...@yahoo.ca> |
Thank you Louise for your extensive and thoughtful letter. I will study it and speak with Minister Meilleur about its contents. Thank you and I will get back to you. Regards John Gerretsen.
This reply is from his Kingston email address:
-------- Original Message --------
| Subject: | RE: A letter for John Gerretsen for his meeting today with Minister Meilleur |
|---|---|
| Date: | Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:23:45 -0400 |
| From: | Gerretsen_John-MPP-CO <jgerrets...@liberal.ola.org> |
| To: | Louise <Roll...@yahoo.ca> |
Thank you for your e-mail. I have requested that it be printed by Mr. Gerretsen’s staff in Toronto and brought to his attention before he goes to Question Period today.
As directed by Mr. Gerretsen, I am preparing a letter to Minister Meilleur and will forward a copy to you via e-mail as soon as it is ready to go. I understand you will be distributing it to a mailing list that you have.
John Gerretsen, M.P.P.
Kingston and The Islands
Kingston: A UNESCO World Heritage Destination
From: Louise [mailto:Roll...@yahoo.ca]
Sent: April 4, 2011
10:47 AM
To: Gerretsen_John-MPP-CO
Cc: Gerretsen_John-MPP
Subject: A letter for
John
Gerretsen for his meeting today with Minister Meilleur
[personal address removed]
April 4, 2011
Dear Mr. Gerretsen,
I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to us the other day.
We all
have some very real stories to share and some of them are hard to cope
with. I
appreciate you being patient enough to listen to us speak above the
rowdiness
and anger that was also present in the foyer of LaSalle Mews on Friday.
I would like to take this opportunity to give you a brief summary of
some of
the points we were raising on Friday.
The biggest concern raised was that we don't have enough to live on.
Ivan, from
K-Cap was asking for the rates to be raised. He has a very valid point
because
according to the Bank of Canada Inflation calculator (Source: http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/inflation_calc.html)
The maximum ODSP rate of $930.00 for a single adult in 1993 when the
rates were
frozen is worth 1,287.61 today.
If you look at it another way, since the Liberals came into power and
started
raising the rates, the $930.00 income we got in 2003 is now worth
$1,068.41.
The maximum allowance a single adult with a disability can receive on
ODSP is
$1,042 without the special diet allowance which, incidentally, I don’t
qualify for.
Single Recipient basic needs = $578
Single recipient shelter = $464
Total $1,042
This meanswe have $26.41 less buying power on ODSP than I did since the
Liberals came into power.
Now this picture is still not entirely accurate because if you look at
what
costs went up and what costs went down, you will see that the cost of
food,
rented shelter, public transportation and hydro went up, home
ownership, car
ownership, clothing, recreation and entertainment, etc., went down.
This
therefore skews the accuracy of what the inflation calculator is
telling you.
Mr. Gerretsen, when Mike Harris created the ODSP program, his goal was
to
separate disability from social services so that our needs could be
better
met.
In the Ontarian’s With Disabilities Act, 2001 (ODA), it says the
following in the preamble:
The Ontario Disability Support Program Act, 1997 provides a separate income and employment support program for eligible persons with disabilities. It removes persons with disabilities from the welfare system and provides them with assistance that recognizes their unique needs. (Source: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_01o32_e.htm)
So why is it that, when you look at the following
graph to see how my
ODSP
income is distributed each month, you can see that there is no wiggle
room to
be able to pay for cable, take more Access Buses to volunteer or paid
jobs,
take part in a social or recreational activity, to look for jobs, etc?
The Access Bus is a disability related expense for which
there is no
compensation and yet the City of Kingston
created a Municipal Transportation Subsidy for Kingston Transit users.
Kingston
Transit is now back before human rights because they started to take
away bus
stops on the accessible routes and it could no longer meet my needs.
I also have to take buses ODSP office and to the housing office to
prove
accountability. You may not realize it, but the local ODSP office does
not accept email and if I send the information by fax, they are
misplaced or
lost regularly. If this happens, then the computer doesn’t get the data
entered on time and a computer in Toronto
will automatically generate a nastily worded letter that tells us our
income
has been negatively affected.
That’s why, the other day, I read to you a section of Directive 11.1
that
says:
Recovery of Overpayments
All overpayments are subject to recovery. Only under exceptional circumstances will overpayments be considered uncollectable.
Administrative Errors
Overpayments may, at times, result from administrative errors such as miscalculations or failure to act on information. These overpayments are recoverable.
When a recipient provides information that would reduce the amount of income support, every effort must be made to promptly action the information in order to prevent an overpayment. If the information is not processed and the recipient receives an amount he/she knows to be incorrect, the onus is on the recipient to notify ODSP staff of this error. The overpayment is to be properly documented on the file and action taken to avoid recurrence of the problem.
I have serious concerns about the part that is
highlighted above
because I have
been sent cheques by mistake and it led to a 4 month nightmare to,
first get
them to take the cheques back, and then cope with the cash shortfall
and nasty
letters while they continued to make one mistake after the other for
the next 4
months. I put the employees at the ODSP office through 3 income reviews
and
literally had them pulling numbers out of the computer while I did the
calculations by hand, before we got it all figured out.
A similar incident happened just recently with trying to get a
prescription for
2 pairs of glasses filled. I knew I needed a letter to prove medical
need for
the second pair, but the local office wouldn’t take it. Instead, they
just rejected my application.
I asked for an Internal Review and again, offered the letter, and again
it was
refused and so were the glasses.
I now had to take the case to the Social Benefits Tribunal. After 3
months of waiting, we held an early resolution meeting over the phone.
I read
the letter to them and they said, “Why didn’t you hand it
in?” I explained that the local office wouldn’t take it so I was
asked to fax it in. I did.
A few days later I got a phone call asking for another glasses
prescription.
They didn’t understand how to read it so they didn’t realize that
both pairs of glasses were written on the prescription. I asked the
optometrist
for another copy and he sent one identical to the first.
I went to David’s Optical to learn how to read the prescription so I
could take it to ODSP and explain it to them. Fortunately another
worker was
brought in on the case and I didn’t have to insult them by trying to
teach them what the prescription said.
I then got a call from ODSP asking for a letter to prove there was a
medical
need. I couldn’t believe it. They’d lost it AGAIN. I
refused to send them a third fax. Instead I told them to look on my
workers
desk. They found the letter and I now have the glasses.
How much did that whole process
cost?
There were 2 workers involved in the Kingston office, a Regional
Director, 3
people involved at the social benefits tribunal, an investigator and
possibly a
lawyer because I got a 20 page document to explain the Kingston
office’s
view that I don’t qualify for the glasses, and then 2 more workers
involved in the Kingston office.
To add insult to injury I then get a letter from the Social Benefits
Tribunal
to say the issue has been resolved because I gave them the letter.
Here is a direct quote:
The above-referenced appeal concerns a decision of the Director, Ontario Disability Support Program to deny the Appellant's request for a vision care benefit to cover the cost of a second pair of eyeglasses.
Following an Early Resolution Process teleconference the Appellant provided the Director with verification that the second pair of glasses were required for medical reasons. As a result of the information the decision has been reversed.
It is my respectful opinion that the issue in this appeal has been resolved.
My family read it and blamed me for not being
responsible enough. I
get
this all the time. The ODSP office should not be holding us to account
for the
mistakes of their workers.
As a result of this letter and, what I have
discovered is an inability
to get
some oversight put into the Kingston
office so these mistakes that cause an incredible amount of stress and
make me
emotionally sick from time to time, I am refusing to close the Social
Benefits
Tribunal File. I have the glasses, but I intend to go to the tribunal
to try to
demand that some oversight be put into the Kingston office.
If you can suggest a better solution, by all
means, please do. The ODSP
program
shortchanges the funding so much I can’t afford to take part in
anything
fun and stress-busting anymore, so when the mistakes happen, I get
depressed
and once had to be hospitalized because of lack of food and the
harassment from
the local ODSP office. The cost of that admission where I was given no
medication, full privileges and advice from the psychiatrist to enjoy a
9 day
holiday with food courtesy of OHIP, was $7,218.00.
I therefore ask you to ask Minister Madeleine Meilleur the following questions:
- How can we get the ODSP offices investigated and the appropriate training and/or extra workers added to each office so that papers aren’t lost, not entered into the computer on time, or the mistakes, which are common-place, be stopped?
- Why people on ODSP are
being treated like we’re welfare recipients who must be held to account
using heavy handed tactics to get prove financial accountability?
- How can we get the wording of the letters that effectively blame us for mistakes in the ODSP office changed?
- Why, when we try to work, are we being penalized by ODSP and housing with claw backs based on our gross income that in effect makes it impossible to AFFORD to go to work?
I have lots more questions, but
we’ll
start with these ones for now.
Thank you once again for listening to our stories the other day. We
need three
things, to raise the rates, to remove the barriers, including
attitudinal
barriers, that are preventing us from working, and to get some
oversight in how
the ODSP program is being administered in the Kingston office.
I look forward to your reply outlining the results of your meeting with
Minister Madeleine Meilleur soon.
Sincerely,
Louise
Ron Payne
How did the KCAP leader take the news that the letter was going to you?
Just curious.
Ron
Hi,
The following is a summary of an action that appeared to be successful in getting the ear of the MPP for Kingston and the Islands, John Gerretsen. I'm sharing it to give others inspiration, but also to let you know the ODSP issue was raised in the Legislature yesterday and a summary letter of the outcome will be sent to me shortly.
Sincerely,
Louise
Louise
He doesn't even know about the summary letter or response from the MPP's office because, so far I haven't got his contact info.
I'm networking to try and find it out. Their meeting place is not accessible so, even though I asked to join, they won't meet elsewhere to accommodate me.
It is the story of my life for poverty and peer support issues.
However all is not lost. I got in on a City of Kingston committee to provide feedback on how to overcome poverty issues from a disability perpective. It's a subcommittee and will meet once more before it disbands, but at least it finally let me bring the physical/ODSP lens to the table.
Louise
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Payne <welfarel...@gmail.com>
Sent: April 5, 2011 7:58 PM
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 36198 ] Promise Received from Kingston MPP to raise ODSP issue in Legislature - long post about a process that seemed to work
How did the KCAP leader take the news that the letter was going to you?
Ron
Ron Payne
Ron
Not good. He was really pissed off.
I'm networking to try and find it out. Their meeting place is not accessible so, even though I asked to join, they won't meet elsewhere to accommodate me.
Louise
wheelchairdemon
I have lots of problems with that too, but what can I do? It's not easy to fight it through human rights anymore because the process now requires you to launch your own investigation, serve the papers, and you can't get a lawyer to help you.
What's really annoying is that KCAP is not the only drop-in centre or networking places that I'm interested in joining, and is not accessible. A women's support group recently opened on Ontario St. and what does it have? Steps. A peer support group was seeking volunteers - they had an ad up in the ODSP to recruit and train members how to help each other with motivational peer support, helping each other tap into resources they wouldn't normally find on their own, etc. - and what did they have? Steps. I asked them to move the meetings downstairs because they own the Martha's Table building. They refused saying people didn't want to give up their comfortable couches.
Even the new groups are opening in places that are not wheelchair accessible. The reason being is they set up the groups in places that charge low rent or are free and there are very few of those around. Unfortunately these places don't have much of a budget. That being said, they could use the schools after hours which, by law, must make the space available for free and, in some cases, pay a small fee to the janitor.
The church group I used to be a part of now travels from town-to-town within the region and carpools. There's no room for my wheelchair, so that ended my membership in the group.
Toastmasters has local meetings and regional meetings and again they carpool and leave no room to include me. I sometimes can join them for a regional event as long as it's a one day event, but for the conferences, forget it. At the end of this month, they're carpooling and bragging about the $20 they'll be paying for transportation when they split the cost of gas. I, by contrast, will be paying $199 for the train, inter-city bus, and paratransit vehicle to get from the train to the bus in Montreal. I tried to suggest we total the cost of transportation and then divvy the total equally among us, but no go. They consider it would be unfair to have to pay extra and the irony is, they're all working. I am not. I'll still enjoy the conference, but it really pisses me off when they don't even see how this type of action is discriminatory.
It is at times like this that I'm glad I can use my emotionally abusive family for the extra money they're allowed to give me over and above the amount I get on ODSP. If it wasn't for that, I'd be even more lonely and excluded.
Yup, it's fun to be poor and live in an old city; an exclusionary city.
I still find things to do and I'm tenacious as hell, but it hurts to be so excluded from life.
Louise
benjer weigl
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:56:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 36234 ] Promise Received from Kingston MPP to raise ODSP issue in Legislature - long post about a process that seemed to work
From: welfarel...@gmail.com
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Their meeting place is not accessible so, even though I asked to join, they won't meet elsewhere to accommodate me.
I would have a problem with that, something called Duty to Accommodate.
Ron
Not good. He was really pissed off.
I'm networking to try and find it out. Their meeting place is not accessible so, even though I asked to join, they won't meet elsewhere to accommodate me.
Louise
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wheelchairdemon
I just wish it would work. I haven't forwarded the concrete examples of exclusionary locations with Michel Prue, but I have with the local NDP, Liberal, and municipal offices. No go. The worst response came from the local liberal office about how they have a right to pick the cheap spots to meet.
To be clear, those words came out of the mouth of the office worker, not the liberal candidate himself.
K-Cap is not a group I'm too enthusiastic to join because Ivan wants to run the show aggressively, but there are plenty of other groups I wish I could join.
I'm at a dead end for the moment so I do the lone-wolf thing and find whatever I can find to do on my own.
Today it will be the library. My bus comes at 10:15. I take my netbook computer out there and sit where there is atmosphere so I don't feel so all alone. I get depressed when I'm alone at home for too long, so the library works.
Louise
Michael Bird
Today it will be the library. My bus comes at 10:15. I take my netbook computer out there and sit where there is atmosphere so I don't feel so all alone. I get depressed when I'm alone at home for too long, so the library works.
Louise
On 07/04/2011 8:54 AM, benjer weigl wrote:I would forward this to michel prue the disability critic from NDP
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