Can ODSP cut you off completely if you have an overpayment? as well as other questions

328 views
Skip to first unread message

buckey

unread,
Sep 2, 2005, 9:55:00 PM9/2/05
to ODSP Fireside
Hi everyone, this is Linda. I'm the one who e-mail Glenn quite sometime
ago about a so-called 25,000.00 overpayment that ODSP said I owed
because they told me my WSIB was never claimed. Well, after I disputed
the entire situation, a hearing date was
set for September 7th. Thanks to Glenn, I contacted the community legal
services and was very lucky to find the most nicest, sincere and
beautiful lawyer I have ever met. She reminds me so much of Ms Browne.
This woman really cares about her clients too. In my case however, my
lawyer set an appointment with me on Tuesday to discuss their answer to
my dispute. ODSP sent my lawyer every income statement that I ever
filled out since 1992. Since I was the type of person who always let my
ex-husband handle the paperwork, he had filled out a few for me. On
some of them, WCB was not checked off as an income. On some of the ones
I did it would be under WCB temporary, WCB permanent. (I did'nt know
which one I was at the time, some had both or none. When I realized
some of them had NA, same as last month, or nil, I told them that I
will definitely pay back anyone I made a mistake on. I felt that was
fair. I understood that the ones my ex filled out for me was not an
excuse and I feel deep down inside that he did it on purpose. Knowing
him. He always said I could never make in on my own. I even had the
same photocopies that they had.So after checking and comparing my
photocopies with theirs, I realized the impact of being lazy and not
watching what I was doing. Some of them I even forgot the CPP because
I didn't know how much it was, but they calculated and found it
somewhere in their files. They also pulled up old information about
the first time my ex husband applied for social services when we moved
here from Timmins in 1985. It seems that my ex did not claim my WCB as
the case had gone to an ombudsman because there was difficulty from
going from temporary to total. Something like that, anyway. My husband
(the self-appointed lawyer) was also handling that one. WHen I finally
received my first WCB, he never claimed it on our income statement.
This I feel was done on purpose on his part, but that's hard to prove.
My ex was not a nice guy in the first place. Anything to make money. He
did'nt care who he hurt. I would like to know, am I responsible for an
overpayment because he was the breadwinner in 1985? ODSP said that I
could even be held responsible for an overpayment made through the
antics of another spouse. I was so upset that I started to cry. My
lawyer said Linda, I am going to withdraw your appeal as you definitely
do owe ODSP some money, we just don't know the real amount. She gave me
a nice hug and told me to go home and wait for a call. Today I receive
a call telling me that she withdrew the appeal. I will find out shortly
how much I owe. I am concerned that if I owe them such a large amount
or less, can they cut me off until they feel that it's paid off. I have
2 children at home, 1 who should be under the dependant adult, and the
other still goes to school. My 18 year old was collecting the CPP full
time student benefit but will be cut off at the end of the month
because she graduated. They told her that they will cut me off if she
does not participate in a Ontario WOrks program. She is afraid that if
she does get a job they will take all her money away or deduct it from
me. I don't want an overpayment to affect my kids. I am so upset about
all of this because, I am all alone and paperwork really isn't my
thing. I have a bad habit of just signing something unread trusting
them because they are government that they know what they are doing.
I'm worried about my daughter's well being. I'm afraid they are going
to tell me to kick her out. I wish I could just tell them to keep their
352.00 a month and get off ODSP but I need the Drug and Dental card for
my son. I do not want to put my daughter down as a dependant adult
because I really don't need them to aggravate her. Isnt it awful how
our kids get caught up in the system? I was also wondering. My lawyer
sent me a community legal newsletter. On it, it says that an ODSP
recipient is allowed to receive 416.00 per month from friends or family
and it will not be deducted from their income.I would have used this
thing as an excuse should my daughter get a job, to just buy the
groceries and that would be considered as the 416.00 they are talking
about. I'm just not sure I understand what it means and I don't want to
do something that will screw me up again. I used to let my friends
write the letters to ODSP for me and although I am trying to do things
on my own, I still need the approval of the odd friend once in awhile
to make sure I write it properly. I try to follow their policies but
they keep contradicting themselves. My lawyer told me that after all
this is over, I can call her anytime and talk to her instead of them. I
found that really nice of her. Another thing happened recently too.
The intake worker that said I may have an overpayment in the first
place told me to contact the WCB and get a pension review. Thanks to
her my check went from 183.00 to 305. They also sent me a check on
December 7th, 2004 for 12900.00. My kids had a good Christmas that
year. I gave them a copy of the check because I was afraid to screw up
the income statement again and asked a girl at the office to fill it
out for me. My lawyer told me to spend as much as I could on
necessities, bills, etc and at least keep 6000.00 in the bank because I
was allowed that amount . I don't know if they are considering the
other 6900.00 as part of this 25,000. 00 or am I going to end up with a
bigger overpayment. I was very thankful to the intake worker for
helping me out for that, because it really helped minimize a lot of old
debts. Some were as old as 30 years old. When I received my first child
support check in January of 2004, I just gave it to them as I felt they
supported me when my ex didn't, that it should go to them in the first
place. Any child support check I had received after that went straight
to them until they showed me how to fill out papers from the court
house making them the recipient of all my future checks. He owes me
over 27,000.00. SO I don't know what happens next in that case. I'm
really sorry for rambling on about all of this. I have so many
questions and I am so confused about everything. My lawyer did tell me
to call her if they do cut me off. I was worried about them taking my
CPP or WCB. I was wondring if anyone could help me by answering a few
of these many questions and easing my mind a bit. I am such an honest
person. I'm 50 years old, I thought all of this was settled years ago
and all of this paper work and legal stuff if mixing me up more than
before. Thank you again for lending an ear. I hope I'm not mixing you
guys up even further. Bye for now. Linda

Patricia Duck

unread,
Sep 3, 2005, 3:10:53 AM9/3/05
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Hi Linda;
About a year ago my son that was 18 then was attending
an alternative school for about 4 months at least I thought he was
I was givng him the bus tickets and lunch money.Sometimes though he would
come home around 1 and would say well we don't have our last classes
today.After finding out that for 3 months my son
was just pretending to be going to school.ODSP asked me to go to the school
and get his last full day of attendance.
They then sent me an overpayment amount that I owed and have been deducking
me on my check ever since even when I explaned to them that I was giving him
tickets and lunch money every day.
I could have appealed it but was afraid to go to a hearing
and cancelled the date they gave me.
After months of deductions I now only owe $29.
It's not been a nice story!
Pat
Message has been deleted

buckey

unread,
Sep 4, 2005, 11:05:10 AM9/4/05
to ODSP Fireside
Thank you Bette and Patricia: I really need a lot of advice on this
one. I'm wondering if it would be a little underhanded to not accept
any money from ODSP for my daughter under the dependant adult. I only
want to do what is right AND legal in order to ensure that she nor my
son will be affected through all of this. Angelina Pata is some sort of
supervisor. SHe called me up one time out of the blue and asked me
where I was getting all of this "information" about ODSP policies. That
was before my lawyer came along. I just said: "On the internet" and
from members of your staff. Maybe she'll run somewhere in the back
office and start raising hell with her employees about providing "too
much information to recipients" if you know what I mean. My feeling
was to get off ODSP completely, send them a little monthly money order
for whatever they feel I owe them and rent out rooms or something just
to make ends meet. The only thing stopping that is the Drug and Dental
for my son. I do feel, however that when he does reach 18 years of age
and since he will be cut off anyway I might as wait until then. Too bad
we can't make monetary claims against ODSP for emotional stress then
they would be owing us money which I feel they do. I am concerned, also
about them garnisheeing my WCB or CPP. Can they do that? Besides my
kids that's all I have. Listen you guys, you're all great people and we
are all in the same boat about a lot of things. This is a great
opportunity to thank Malcolm, his wife, Glenn, Angela Browne and all
the other individuals who have made this website a lifeline for people
like me. Thank you. Please keep these replies coming. I need all the
help I can get. PS If my lawyer said not to go to the appointment, will
I still get in trouble? Another thing. If I need glasses or dental
work, can they refuse me for raising such a fuss or because there is an
overpayment? Inquiring minds would like to know. Bye for now. And
thanks for all the great people that I have had a chance to encounter
on this site. Linda
Bette Hawley wrote:
> Hi Linda - My advice is to remove your daughter from your ODSP cheque and
> let her earn her money which is rightfully hers. Our main goals as mothers
> (and parents) is to protect our kids. Right now she's afraid to work because
> the money she'll earn, will come off your cheque. If she doesn't pay you
> room or board, ODSP will deduct a minimum amount for room & board - or they
> may not deduct anything at all. This will give her time to get on her feet.
>
> As far as the overpayments are concerned, I believe that is where
> 'discretion' is used on the part of ODSP. Even though on the books it may
> appear to be a lot, ODSP can reduce that figure to a token one, in light of
> the fact that you were innnocent in all of this. I'd talk to your lawyer
> about negotiating a settlement. You've never really received a lot of money
> from ODSP, so why are they making such a big fuss over all of this? You must
> be very anxious. I know you get along with your lawyer really well, but she
> should work to reduce any of the alledged monies owing. My response is not a
> technical one - perhaps Angela Browne might have some expertise in this
> area. Calling on Angela!!
>
> Take care - Bette

abrowne

unread,
Sep 4, 2005, 2:37:59 PM9/4/05
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Linda, I will provide more detail later but your ex-spouse is equally responsible for the
overpayments, not just you.  If you know where your ex-spouse is, they will track him
down and try to collect from him too.  And no, they can't take more than 10% of your
cheque at a time, and usually they only take 5%.  It is worth it going over all the prior
income statements (and also get them to give you their readings off the computer as
they may have made the deduction anyways even if you didn't claim it directly).  I would
also try to make a deal with them as they chose to do this several years later instead
of catching them closer to the time they took place.
Angela

buckey <malcol...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone, this is Linda. I'm the one who e-mail Glenn quite sometime
ago about a so-called 25,000.00 overpayment that ODSP said I owed
because they told me my WSIB was never claimed. Well, after I disputed
the entire situation, a hearing date was

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

abrowne

unread,
Sep 4, 2005, 2:49:28 PM9/4/05
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Linda,
People are starting to do charter challenges, although not enough of them.  I look
forward to the COURTS telling the government where to stick their silly rules.
Angela

buckey <malcol...@gmail.com> wrote:
we can't make monetary claims against ODSP for emotional stress then
they would be owing us money which I feel they do. I am concerned, also
about them garnisheeing my WCB or CPP. Can they do that?


Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

buckey

unread,
Sep 5, 2005, 5:59:03 PM9/5/05
to ODSP Fireside
Hi Angela: Thanks for writing back. I was so looking forward to go to
this hearing. I did tell them that my ex was filling them out for me
when we were separated.That was my mistake. When you're in an abusive
relationship, even when you separate, you still have a hard time
breaking away. The ones he filled out in 1985 may open a can of worms
for him however. Good for him. They can add his stupidities to his back
child support payments. As for me, I was accused of being lazy and
illiterate by one of their supervisors. She even asked me if I had a
learning disability. I told her no and she told me that I had no excuse
getting other people to fill out my forms and signing them without
double checking first. I admit that's my fault and I'm paying dearly
for it. Although it's been over 7 years, I have been separated, I am
slowing learning to do things for myself. I just have to stop asking my
friends now to write letters for me when I send mail to ODSP. I'm
getting there. I'm just worried about how this situation will impact on
my kids. Anyway, my lawyer will be back on Wednesday and; I'm hoping to
hear at least some good news. I'm not keeping my hopes up. What really
burns me though, is they seem to go out of their way to make themselves
look good and everyone else stupid. When we were all assigned social
workers, if a worker made a mistake at least we knew who to blame.
Since last year, all of my letters to them were sent registered mail.
Even when I call to ask them if they have received my letters, they
deny it. But when I tell them that I will give them the name of the
person who signed for it, it pops up all of a sudden. These types of
games are the reason things get lost, mixed up, or mismanaged and
because there are no more workers assigned to an individual
specifically, we are at the mercy of incompetent people who actually
hold our lives in their hands.The funny part is that they sent my
lawyer everything except for a copy of some old correspondence that I
had sent them years ago with my claim #, and even the name of my WCB
doctor who showed up in their files in 1994 when I appealed and won.
They forgot those, but my lawyer has copies. Nothing to do but wait. I
as well as many others, Angela not only appreciate your imput, we
always look forward to your responses to questions that we feel are
important to us and others. Thank you and everyone else for being
there. Bye for now, Linda. HI BETTE!

abrowne wrote:
> Linda,
> People are starting to do charter challenges, although not enough of them. I look
> forward to the COURTS telling the government where to stick their silly rules.
> Angela
>
> buckey <malcol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> we can't make monetary claims against ODSP for emotional stress then
> they would be owing us money which I feel they do. I am concerned, also
> about them garnisheeing my WCB or CPP. Can they do that?
>
> ---------------------------------

abrowne

unread,
Sep 5, 2005, 10:42:17 PM9/5/05
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Linda,
Just make sure in addition to your ETIR reports, get copies of the computer print-outs for every single month in dispute.  If you can, dig up the old stubs and bank books as well and see if they jive with the computerized print-outs.  Add them up.  Question any overpayment that does not appear to be legit.  Accept those that do.  Add them up; make a proposal and give half the responsibility to your ex.  Give them information about your ex-spouse, such as where he lives, works, his phone number, etc. and because during this period of time, he was individually and severally responsible for any over-payments on the account, he should be taking his share of the flack as well.  Unfortunately, if he's not on assistance, they have to collect it from him.  The Ministry does have collection agencies it can use, but I am not sure how they are enforcing this on prior recipients that owe (who are still under 65 years, as after 65 years old, this is wiped out from your record).  I know Revenue Canada might be interested in where he is as well, particularly if he screwed up on child support payments, etc. As for being in an abusive relationship, there needs to be some documentation (e.g. did you go to a women's shelter, were there domestic reports at the police station, did he get ordered to stay away from you afterwards?).  Once you have those additional chips in the block about abuse, this can also supplement an affidavit concerning your responsibility for some of the overpayments, but you will not be written off entirely.
Angela

buckey <malcol...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Angela: Thanks for writing back. I was so looking forward to go to
this hearing. I did tell them that my ex was filling them out for me
when we were separated.That was my mistake. When you're in an abusive
relationship, even when you separate, you still have a hard time
breaking away. The ones he filled out in 1985 may open a can of worms
for him however. Good for him. They can add his stupidities to his back
child support payments. As for me, I was accused of being lazy and


Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages