New to ODSP

[Tooti73]

After going through the entire appeal process, and then waiting for a hearing with the tribunal (which never happened because the tribunal reversed their decision a week before my hearing date and found me to be person with a disability). I am now waiting to hear from my local ODSP office for an intake interview date.  We were on OW, and have closed off our file with ow in order for it to be transferred to ODSP. That was two weeks ago, and still have not received any communication from the local ODSP office. Does anyone have any experience with what we are dealing with?  Do I continue to pursue an appt or just sit and wait? The other issue I am concerned about is that on my letter from ODSP it says we will receive retro-active payments back to May of 2012.  What are others experiencing in trying to collect retro-active payments?  Is the ODSP forthcoming with a lump sum or is it like pulling teeth trying to get them to make good on their promise?
Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated.  I need to get a hold of my anxiety level over this process.  Please help!

[Tooti73]

I am still waiting to hear from ODSP.  Righ now I am kind of floating between two support systems, and no one is able to give me any answers. Somebody please help we are getting desperate.

[jbkeh]

What do you mean by " have closed off our file with ow in order for it to be transferred to ODSP"?

 

The sequence is:

 

1. ODSP requests your file from OW. (Whenever ODSP gets around to it.)

2. OW sends your file to ODSP. (Hopefully promptly.)

3. ODSP determines which month they will commence payments. (Again, hopefully promptly).

4. ODSP advises OW which month ODSP will commence payments.

5. Only then does OW terminate payments after the start of that month.

 

Yes, you get paid by both OW and ODSP in the month of transfer, but while OW paid you for the month at the beginning, ODSP pays for the month at the end, so there is still a 30-day spread between the last OW payment and the first ODSP payment, even though it is for the same month. Ontario is not going to allow you to keep both payments, so they deduct the last OW payment from the first ODSP payment which leaves you with only the difference. To compensate, when your retro amount is calculated, the first month of OW / ODSP overlap is ignored, increasing the retro by the OW amount for that first month of overlap. You MUST retain enough from your retro to cover the shortfall in your first ODSP payment.

 

Also, keep in mind that the OW benefits (MSN etc) "carry over" for only three months. You MUST re-apply for them under ODSP.

 

When ODSP determines the month of transfer, they will call you for the "intake interview" before the end of that month (likely before the 22nd as that is when they "close the books" and start the payment preparation). You will receive your retro either separately, at the "intake interview" or with the first payment (seems to vary from office to office).

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

 

[Tooti73]

Thank you for the reply. 
To clarify, I received the letter from the tribunal that I had been found a person with a disability on the 22nd of july.  I spoke to my ow caseworker in august because I hadn't heard anything from ODSP, and was informed that I needed to come in and sign some documents that my casefile would be 'closed off'' with ow and transfered to odsp.  So now we are waiting, and barely able to make ends meet.
We have accumulated 16mos of retroactive payment.  How does odsp usually handle something like that?

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[Tooti73]

The other question I have is that when I do receive my retroactive payment, will some of it be clawed back by ow? Because as you said I can't receive payments from both at the same time. Our retroactive payment is supposed to go back to May 22 2012 and at that time we were on ow. Will they take the 13 525.00 we received from OW during that retroactive time period?

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[Tooti73]

The other question I have is that when I do receive my retroactive payment, will some of it be clawed back by ow? Because as you said I can't receive payments from both at the same time. Our retroactive payment is supposed to go back to May 22 2012 and at that time we were on ow. Will they take the 13 525.00 we received from OW during that retroactive time period?


On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[jbkeh]

Please don't make us drag information from you piece-by-piece.

 

The DAU shpuld have informed ODSP at the same time they informed you. Since that was near the end of July, it was too late for a transfer in that month. In theory, you should have been transferred in August, but ODSP often "takes their time" as you continue to be paid by OW until the transfer is enacted, so ODSP doesn't feel any need to rush.

 

So, when did you finally contact your OW worker in August? When did you sign whatever papers were required? Are you sure the OW worker said the papers were required to "close" your file or did she say that they were required to COMPLETE your file so it could be sent to ODSP? Did things drag out to the point that an August transfer was impossible?

 

Most important of all, did you receive your regular OW payment at the start of September? If yes, you may be anxious, but you are no more desperate than before. If no, CONTACT YOUR OW WORKER IMMEDIATELY! IN PERSON! AT THE OFFICE! If she cannot get things straightened out that same day, you must ask for "interim support" while things get sorted.

 

Depending on when (if?) ODSP received your file from OW, you may not be transferred until October.

 

Of course the OW payments made after your month of grant will be deducted from your retro. If you were on OW at the time you applied for ODSP, the date of grant is the first of the following month, not the specific date of the application.

[Goldielover]

Your retro payment will consist of the difference between the OW rate and the ODSP rate.  I don't know your family situation, but for a single person that would be roughly $470.00 a month. Couple or family would be higher.  ODSP will handle the reimbursement of OW - you don't need to worry about that.  It sounds like your OW file may have been closed prematurely.  You should have received your regular OW payment at the end of August.  It is up to the ODSP office to request your file from the OW office, and then the OW office has a certain number of days to do so.  You may not actually have to do an intake interview with ODSP.  I didn't.  I just got a package of forms in the mail to go through with some needing to be returned.  I then got my first regular ODSP cheque at the end of the month.  I didn't get retro because my application was accepted very quickly, but I do know that your retro payment is usually issued in a separate cheque to your regular monthly payment.

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[Ron Payne]

On 11 September 2013 18:37, jbkeh <j...@teksavvy.com> wrote:

Please don't make us drag information from you piece-by-piece.

 

The DAU shpuld have informed ODSP at the same time they informed you.

What!!!!

A typo, wow... I enjoy reading all of your posts word for word and have done it for years.

Is this the first?

[Tooti73]

I don't mean to be stingy with details. Being a first time group member, I am not sure how much to share.
I contacted my ow caseworker today, she was not really able to give me any further information than we already have. She was able to tell me that the ODSP has my file.  We signed our ow papers to complete our case with them on Aug 29.   My husband is on ei right now and actively looking for work, but because we received a retroactive payment from ei in May, while on ow, they are clawing back their overpayment still, so our september payment was under $100.00.  We are desperate now, because ei ends at the end of this month, and we still owe OW for the overpayment. 
I have been calling the ODSP office for our area and left four messages.  NO ONE has called back once.  Which is appalling. 

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[Tooti73]

I called the odsp office and left a message for the supervisor.  I heard back from my caseworker within the hour.  We go in to finalize our odsp on monday!
Finally, I can rest easier at night!

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[Deborah Masters nee Alexander]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/coke-baby-woman-busted-colombia-stashing-kilos-cocaine-fake-baby-bump-article-1.1453360

Guess even the puppet masters can be distorted some times.  I could not believe this.  Wow she must not get paid enough

See Yah, So Long,

DEB

 

---

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 15:37:17 -0700
From: j...@teksavvy.com
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [odspfireside: 51341 ] Re: New to ODSP

Please don't make us drag information from you piece-by-piece.

 

 

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 1:37:59 PM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

The other question I have is that when I do receive my retroactive payment, will some of it be clawed back by ow?

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[Tooti73]

So now that we have an appt....
I was also told by my odsp caseworker that she would have two checks on had for me, my retro active payment and my september check minus what OW had given us, which made me snicker a little because we only recieved like $64.85 from OW this month.
BTW what happens if my husband finds a job? How will that affect my ODSP amount?

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[jbkeh]

As it is said, the devil is in the details.

 

Since you did not complete the papers so OW could transfer your file until the 29th of August, the earliest possible month to move to ODSP was September (which you have now confirmed). From ODSP's viewpoint, you have hardly given them any time at all to process things.

 

Your panic about E.I. ending was unnecessary. The monthly E.I. was being deducted from your OW Requirements - when the E.I. stops, so does the deductions which simply means you get the same total amount. Old TOTAL amount = (OW Requirements minus E.I.) plus you got the money from E.I, a total income equal to the OW Requirements themselves. When the E.I. stops, you then get the OW Requirements without any E.I. deduction (as you are no longer getting E.I.) and your total monthly income does not change. (This is completely aside from any overpayment clawback.)

 

Speaking of the overpayment, the oustanding amount is also transferred to ODSP as an overpayment and ODSP will continue to deduct some of your monthly ODSP payment until the overpayment is erased. (Actually, since your ODSP payment is higher, the amount deducted for the overpayment will also increase proportionally.) Do check that when (if?) ODSP calculates the ODSP overpayment clawback for September, it is based on the increase between OW and ODSP payments for September, not on the full ODSP Requirements. (Just as Ontario will not pay you twice in September, Ontario cannot make both a OW deduction and a full ODSP deduction against the overpayment.)

 

Glad to see the pressure is off. And yes, a simple return of your earlier calls to ODSP would have saved you much stress.

[Tooti73]

So now that we have an appt....
I was also told by my odsp caseworker that she would have two checks on had for me, my retro active payment and my september check minus what OW had given us, which made me snicker a little because we only recieved like $64.85 from OW this month.
BTW what happens if my husband finds a job? How will that affect my ODSP amount?


On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[jbkeh]

I am somewhat surprised that you would be given the September ODSP check two weeks early. Remember that then you will not see another payment until the END OF OCTOBER and budget accordingly. Don't snicker too hard - keep in mind that the September ODSP payment will be at best (assuming you have no dependents and your shelter costs exceed $753) about $603.

 

When your husband (who must still participate in the OW job search program) finds a a job, part of his earnings will be deducted from your payment, but you will receive a $100 Work-Related benefit added as long as his earnings exceed $100. The amount DEDUCTED is equal to the gross - reduction1 - 50% of reduction2. (There are other possbile reductions, but they do not appear to apply.)

 

Reduction1 is income tax and other mandatory deductions AS CALCULATED BY ODSP (not the employer) plus $200.

 

Reduction2 is the difference between the gross and reduction1.

 

Working the numbers (removing brackets and adjusting signs), the DEDUCTION is: (gross - ( reduction1 ) ) -  (50% ( gross -  reduction1 ) ) =   gross -  reduction1 - 50%  gross + 50% reduction1 = 50% gross - 50% reduction1 = 50% gross - 50% taxes - $100

 

Why such a convoluted calculation? Because that's how it's expressed in the regualtions. Reduction1 is Sec 38(1),i and ii; Reduction2 is Sec 38(1),iii

 

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_980222_e.htm#BK44

 

(Note how the vaunted "ODSP now lets you keep $200 of your earnings" is really $100.)

 

Many people like to consider that ODSP "takes" all your earnings and then lets you "keep" some of them, so you can view things as ODSP lets you "keep" 50% of the gross, 50% of the taxrs and $100 (plus giving you that $100 Work-Related benefit).

[Ron Payne]

On 12 September 2013 16:06, Deborah Masters nee Alexander <adora...@hotmail.com> wrote:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/coke-baby-woman-busted-colombia-stashing-kilos-cocaine-fake-baby-bump-article-1.1453360

Guess even the puppet masters can be distorted some times.  I could not believe this.  Wow she must not get paid enough

See Yah, So Long,

DEB

I call it “Poetic Justice”.

Blight Ignores Adjudicator’s Code of Conduct
The motion is scheduled to be argued on two days—October 16 and, if needed, October 17, 2013. Blight will then decide if she will continue with the hearing or resign from the Panel. If she resigns, this will likely result in an implosion of the proceedings. Back to square one.

http://harrykopyto.ca/2013/09/09/law-society-hearings-edge-to-potential-collapse/

[Sean]

(Re-Sent due to err0r)

 

From: Sean [mailto:sc...@rogers.com]
Sent: Friday September 13, 2013 13:52
To: 'odspfi...@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: [odspfireside: 51344 ] Re: New to ODSP

 

After being around here a while I can tell you this:

 

I don’t think anyone on this list would be “out to get you” so it’s pretty safe.  Especially if you’re new.

[Tooti73]

OK!  Now we are on a roll!
Met with our ODSP caseworker today, signed papers picked up our retro check.  BUT found the amount to be in disagreement with what I thought we would be getting.  Maybe I am wrong, but they seem to be taking deductions where OW already did.  My husband has been receiving EI for the past 21 weeks, OW deducted the amount from our monthly checks, does ODSP do the same from the retro amount? We also had a small amount of income claimed each month for some of the months prior to the EI claim that we included on our monthly income statements to OW. Does ODSP also deduct that amount?

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[jbkeh]

Indeed they do.

 

Remember that evaluating the retro is "rewriting history". For each month, they're calculating the actual amount you should have been paid by ODSP at the time and deducting the actual amount OW had paid you (except for the first month of the overlap). Since OW and ODSP provide the same benefits and have the same "rules" regarding deductions, this boils down to the difference between the OW and ODSP rates. I had "guesstimated" this to be at best (if your shelter costs were more than $753, which would maximise your Shelter Allowance) to be about $603. (Actually a bit less as I used the Sept 2013 ODSP numbers and the Dec 2012 OW numbers.) So, for June 2012 (first month of overlap) you would receive the full ODSP rate (less any earnings deduction (50%) and/or less any E.I. payment (100%) and plus a $100 Work-Related benefit if applicable)  and for July 2012 through August 2013 (14 months) the difference between the OW and ODSP rates, or at most, $8,442 (14 * $603) plus the June 2012 ODSP payment. Did you not get a written "breakdown" of how they calculated your retro?

 

Note: I am assuming that ODSP uses the overpayment deduction amount used by OW up through Sept 2013 (recalculating that amount leads to needing to adjust the outstanding overpayment balance). As mentioned earlier, there will be a proportionally greater amount deducted and applied to the outstanding overpayment balance from Oct onward.

[jbkeh]

Oops - the sentence regarding retro calculation should be "So, for June 2012 (first month of overlap) you would receive the full ODSP rate (less any earnings deduction (50%) and/or less any E.I. payment (100%) and for July 2012 through August 2013 (14 months) the difference between the OW and ODSP rates, or at most, $8,442 (14 * $603) plus the June 2012 ODSP payment plus $100 (Work-Related Benefit) for each month, including June 2012, that earnings of more than $100 were reported.

 

The Work-Related Benefit is an exception to the commonality of OW and ODSP benefits.

[Tooti73]

The problem I have with what ODSP gave me for the retro amount, doesn't make sense.  It looks like they are assuming that we have received the full OW amount we were entitled to, which we did not.  As I mentioned before, my husband was working, so we had to claim his earnings and as such deductions were taken monthly from the OW amount. Same as when we started receiving his EI, the deductions were taken from the OW amount for the last 21 weeks.  Here is an example.  The letter I received from ODSP stated that we received $1229.00 from OW at the beginning of this month, when what we did receive from OW was $64.95.   As a reflection of OW taking the full amount of overpayment due to EI. So we would only be receiving the difference between OW and ODSP, which comes to approx. $686.00.  Does that make sense to anyone?  I have been told by both caseworkers that OW and ODSP share case information.  If so, why this error?

On Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:34:53 AM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[jbkeh]

The numbers just don't seem to match.

 

The base maximum OW Budgetary Requirements for a couple this September is $1043 ( $453 Basic Needs + $590 maximum Shelter Allowance), yet you say it was $1229, an additional $186. If this were simply a benefit that you did not disclose, it would have no impact on the difference between the ODSP and OW payments for September as it would exist on both sides and cancel out, with the September difference remaining at $603. (The base maximum ODSP Budgetary Requirements for a couple in September is $1646.)

 

Yet you say the September difference is $686. This leaves the question of why ODSP has calculated a September difference which is $83 HIGHER(!?) than the $603 that one would expect.

 

Anything you might have failed to mention? Benefits? Children?

 

OW and ODSP treat benefits, earnings and E.I. exactly the same, so when calculating the retro difference between the ODSP and OW amounts they need only consider the difference between the ODSP and OW base Budgetary Requirements for that month (benefits, deductions for E.I., earnings and overpayments are the same for both and cancel each other out). The only exception should be that $100 must be added to the retro for each month that your husband (or you) reported earnings. (If the earnings were from "casual labour" rather than from on-going employment, they must be greater than $100). The first month of the retro is simply the base ODSP Budgetary Requirements (no deductions and no benefits other than the possible $100 Work-Related Benefit).

[Kristen Skinner]

Sorry. Forgot to mention we have two children 6&3. Dont know how I forgot that important detail!
So my ODSP caseworker asked for a copy of the retro check stub and ei statements. At least she is investigating. Maybe there is something missing?

[Kristen Skinner]

And special diet allowance for type 1 diabetics.

[jbkeh]

Nor do I - a lot of time has been wasted.

 

The $1229 Sept OW now reconciles, but the Sept ODSP payment still remains more than it should. (By my calculation, it should be $631, not the $686 you stated, which is $55 more.)

 

I calculate the retro for the period of June 2012 through August 2013 to be  $10328 plus any applicable $100 Work-Related Benefits. For simplicity, I used the "base" (only the Basic Needs and Shelter Allowance) as any "benefits" and "deductions" will apply to both sides of the calculation and cancel out. The $100 Work-Related Benefit is calculated separately as it only applies to ODSP and there is no OW equivalent to cancel it out.

 

Each time either OW or ODSP changed its rates forces a recalculation of the difference, so ....

 

September 2013 (new ODSP rates):  ODSP $1779 less OW $1148, giving the end of September payment of $631 (no idea why you got $686)

 

December 2012 - August 2013 (new OW rates):  ODSP $1768 less OW $1148, giving $620 for each of those 9 months, a total of $5580

November 2012 (new ODSP rates):  ODSP $1768 less OW $1136, giving for that 1 month, a total of $632

July 2012 - October 2012 (rates at that time) :  ODSP $1732 less OW $1136, giving $596 for each of those 4 months, a total of $2384

June 2012 (rates at that time): ODSP $1732 less ZERO (first month overlap ignored), giving for that 1 month, a total of $1732.

 

Adding the totals for those 4 time periods covering June 2012 through August 2013 gives a grand total of $10328 for the retro. On top of that would be $100 each time either of you reported applicable employment earnings.

[jbkeh]

On further reflection, there may be an answer for that $55 difference.

 

Earlier, you had mentioned that your husband's E.I. would end in September.

 

If OW was not advised of this in time, they would deduct the full "monthly equivalent" amount for September and if ODSP was advised in time, they would deduct a partial "monthly equivalent" amount. In other words, OW may have deducted more for the September E.I. than did ODSP. If so, the difference between the OW E.I. deduction and the ODSP E.I. deduction would show up as an "increase" in the ODSP end of September payment.

 

If possible, check and see if OW deducted $55 more for E.I. in September than did ODSP. If this be the case, then the $686 amount is correct.

[Tooti73]

Ok, so now I am embroiled in a discrepancy claim with ODSP regarding my retro pay, and now my amount for october is reflecting deductions that were taken off in september?  WT heck?  I am so confused by the information I have just received.  I requested detailed information about how ODSP came to the amount of retro I received, so my caseworker very kindly sent a detailed chart which outlines the following: ODSP Income Support Max + New ODSP Benefits ( which were 343.00 last year but have dropped to 81.00?) - OW amountsf (the amounts in the chart are all wrong, we didn't receive what they claim we did ) - Income ( 50% of employment income and 100% of all other types of income which again are all wrong) = Amount of ODSP Retro.  I am aware that OW and ODSP share case information, I have been able to find some old OW statements from this past year and none of the amounts that are on the statements match up with the OW Amounts column. So why is there such a huge discrepancy in information?  I am completely at a loss.  Where do I go for help?  Do I contact my lawyer who helped me get ODSP in the first place?  Any advice would be much appreciated.

[jbkeh]

Let's go over this one more time. ODSP pays for the month AT THE END OF THE MONTH. You have NOT YET received your October payment! It will arrive about October 29.

 

Because OW paid you for the month AT THE START OF THE MONTH, you received your September OW payment at the start of September and that payment was DEDUCTED from your September ODSP payment at the end of September. (Ontario is not going to pay you both OW and ODSP for the same month.) You were cautioned that this would occur and to retain enough from your retro to cover this one-time shortfall. You were also informed that the retro would include an 'extra' OW payment (first month overlap ignored) to 'compensate' for the switch in payment times.

 

Do not confuse "Budgetary Requirements" with actual payments (after deductions for income and overpayments). Compare apples to apples (ODSP Budgetary Requirements to OW Budgetary Requirements). With the possible exception of the ODSP Work-Related Benefit, all benefits  and deductions should be identical and cancel out. Why were you getting $343? (The $81 is for your diabetes.) Is the provided breakdown by month?

 

I had previously estimated your retro to be $10328, with details as to the four separate time periods of calculation. How does the retro differ from my estimate(s)

[Peter J]

I'm just wondering why your fighting them so much over such a little amoutn or did i miss something. I now workeers will come after you just becpouse you proved them wrong.

I hate this gthing with living on what the goverment gives you. SOMEone else always has control of your life.

[Tooti73]

I am aware of when ODSP is scheduled to deposit each month.
The difference between what you (jbkeh) estimated for the retro and what I actually received was around $1000.00.  The real issue I am finding is the information that has been transferred from OW to ODSP is incorrect.The breakdown details month by month from May 2012 to August 2013, but all the numbers including what was received by OW are incorrect.  I have my statements to corroborate this information.  So how do these errors happen? Could they have the wrong file?

[jbkeh]

Well, anything is possible in a bureaucracy...

 

First, please confirm that the DAU received your application in April 2012. If this is the case, then my original estimate is LOW by $596 and should be a total of $10924. So, then we are looking at a difference of about $100 per month. The question is why that difference exists.

 

Second, we have to know what numbers ODSP is using. Either they are taking the simple route of calculating the monthly difference between the ODSP Budgetary Requirements and the OW Budgetary Requirements or they are taking the complex route of calculating the monthly ODSP NET (after deductions) payment and subtracting the OW NET payment.

 

Third, we have to know what numbers YOU are using. (I am using Budgetary Requirements.)

 

Is there ANY agreement in ANY of our THREE separate sets of numbers?

 

I went back over what you posted in regard to the retro breakdown. By "ODSP Income Support Max", I assumed they meant "ODSP Budgetary Requirements"; by "OW amounts" , they meant "OW Budgetary Requirements" and by "Income" they meant (what they said), "chargeable" earned income plus all "other" income. What confuses me is "New ODSP Benefits" as the only item of which I am aware is the $100 Work-Related Benefit (the Special Diet is an "Allowance" and technically part of your Basic Needs). Assuming that $81 of that $343 was the SDA diabetes, what was the other $262? And why did it stop?

 

Still, if I read this right, and re-arrange it, their calculation is "New ODSP Benefits" + ODSP Budgetary Requirements - OW Budgetary Requirements - Income (adjusted) = Retro. Well, that cannot be. That would mean they would be double-deducting the Income (adjusted), once by OW at the time it was paid and now by ODSP in the retro. In fact, you would owe them money.

 

OK, then let's assume that by "OW Amounts" they meant OW NET payment. Now we are subtracting apples from oranges (OW Net from ODSP Requirements). This actually returns to you the money deducted from OW for income (adjusted). By re-subtracting it, the correct answer should result. ("New ODSP Benefits" + "ODSP Budgetary Requirements" - OW Net Payment - Income (adjusted) = Retro)

 

Still, this is a convoluted (dare I say insane) method and it is replete with points for error. Go over your OW stubs and for each month gather:

 

1. OW Budgetary Requirements (without SDA and any benefits). Does this match the number I used?

2. OW Income (adjusted) deduction. Does this match the number ODSP used?

 

The first question to ask of your worker is why the number she is using for your Net OW differs from the amount that was actually paid.

[Tooti73]

I am just trying to understand the process behind their findings.  I am not out to get my caseworker, just need to have a better understanding because my numbers and their numbers don't match up, not anywhere close. Maybe its part of my compulsion to control things, but until I am satisfied with answers I am getting I won't give up willingly. So far my caseworker has no qualms about any information I am seeking.

[jbkeh]

And that is certainly your right.

 

However, repeatedly telling us that the numbers are "wrong" while persisting in not telling us the actual numbers used makes it impossible to determine the cause of any difference. You did not answer a single question posed in my last post.

 

At least give us one month of actual data, say August 2013:

 

1. The OW "Budgetary Requirements" (from your stub) and the ODSP "Income Support Max"?

2. The OW deduction for earnings and income (from your stub) and the ODSP "Income"?

3. Any other OW deductions.

4. The OW actual payment (from your stub).

5. The amount of the "New ODSP Benefit".

 

 

 

On Friday, October 18, 2013 8:14:27 PM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

I am just trying to understand the process behind their findings.Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated.  I need to get a hold of my anxiety level over this process.  Please help!

[Tooti73]

Please understand, I am always reluctant to share ANY personal financial info online.  I do suffer from paranoia as part of my anxiety disorder.  So this is alot for me too share.
August 2013 as follows according to the chart provided by my ODSP case worker:

1.$1768.00 + 81.00( ODSP Inc. Support Max +New ODSP benefits)
2.OW Amount $341.00
3.Income earnings $1110.00
4.Amount of ODSP after add. and ded. $398.00

The following is what I have on Aug 2013 OW stub
1. OW benefit (basic needs, shelter, special diet) $1229.00
2. Deductions (EIB and O/P recovery) $945.40
3. OW cheq amount $283.60

I am not sure what other information you need.  I will try to be more forthcoming with future info as allows.

[jbkeh]

Thank you for some concrete numbers.

 

I quite agree - there are obvious discrepancies.

 

The ODSP "OW Amount" and "Income earnings" add up to $1451,  some $222 more than the $1229 actual OW Budgetary Requirements for August 2013. Not that surprising when ODSP also calculates the deductions as $1110 (without any details) when the actual was $945.40 (a difference of $164.60) and claim the OW payment was $341 when it was $283.60 (a difference of $57.40).

 

At this point, you must file a formal "Request for an Internal Review".  There is a form for this

 

http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/006-2878~1/$File/2878E.pdf

 

or you can simply write a letter that starts with "I am requesting an internal review of the calculation of my Retro payment upon being entered into the ODSP system" and just use the August numbers as an example.

 

It is most important that this is in writing and that they receive it immediately. Either send it by registered mail or make a copy and deliver both by hand to the office and have the office date stamp your copy. This eliminates any chance that it is claimed they never received it within the permitted time-frame.

 

This action forces the ODSP office to have a different worker recalulate the numbers and ensures that (if necessary) you can appeal to the SBT.

[4thjet2]

On the letter that is suppose to come with your over-payment check, you can ask for an "internal review" by the manager/supervisor.

In the meantime go to your local legal clinic and get some help so they can go over the numbers from when you applied including any of your husband's income including EI and what was received from OW.

You only have a limited time to ask for the internal review and the legal clinic can help you do it but basically it's just faxing them a letter requesting a review and a copy of the letter you received.

They got me on not paying 3 months of back pay as it's not the day you apply to your local office but when Toronto processes it. So apparently it took 3 months to go 500 miles and for someone to flip the file into the no pile! Plus then the moved it back again, another 3 months to when I applied for CPP-D, which I didn't even know about until they insisted I apply for that too, as in "looking for resources from all available places".

Even with all the medical info and back up I had they still said no and only accepted me as CPP-D accepted me before they did after one re-request and when I provided more medical info it was a yes from the Feds in a week.

To now in the end ODSP deducting dollar for dollar everything I get from CPP-D. Which is totally annoying as I paid for that! It's virtually getting your own money back you put into the CPP fund.

They don't even deduct it the same as if you were working! Total crock! If I was able to keep even 50% instead of it being deducted I would be OK financially.

Anyway, anything you don't understand here, immediately go to your local legal clinic as they can help you, file for a reconsideration and even after that take it to the tribunal on the question of overpayment being short, if the legal clinic and the above gentleman's figures are right you should be getting a bit more than you did.  Now that you added in 2 kids into the equation things change the figures again.

But act quickly! time limit on this!!!

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:30:02 PM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[Tooti73]

Ok so now I have a question.  I have asked my ODSP casworker for copies of a few missing OW back statements, but she is not being cooperative on that request.  She keeps saying ' Oh you don't need those, we have the same numbers on the system', but obviously they don't.  Any advice?

[jbkeh]

First and foremost, if you have not submitted your "Request for an Internal Review", DO SO IMMEDIATELY! Although it is not a route you would like to persue, it is vital to protect your interests.

 

Second, try calling your OW (ex) worker and see if you can obtain the missing data from them.

[Peter J]

All i can say is wow in the way your pursuing this. I'd never be that bold. In the back of myh mind i'd always be thinking, whats she going to do to get back at me. I've just had some bad experiences before where thats what the worker was doing to me. I questioned things and she just went i'll show you ...
 Good luck!!!

On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:34:43 PM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote:

[Tooti73]

Peter J.: I am not doing this JUST to prove them wrong.  The numbers they have from OW are incorrect.  I just want to make sure nothing was missed.  I am trying to handle this as diplomatically as possible.  A concept that is lost on a lot of people.

Jbkeh: I did ask my OW for assistance and was directed to OW's Quality Assurance dept.  A letter written by me requesting the back statements.  I was contacted about two weeks later to be told that they no longer have access to my casefile and that I had to go through my ODSP caseworker.  So I have sent a letter to her politely requesting the backstatements for my own personal financial records.  I have yet to hear.  Seems I need to make a nuisance of myself to get anything done.  I can appreciate that they must have a huge caseload, but even an acknowledgement phone call, just to say I have your letter and will get to it as soon as I can.  I believe they follow something called 'best practice'?

[jbkeh]

Well, that's the theory....

 

Until you say that you have filed a "Request for an Internal Review", it would appear that the "clock is being run out", whether by your deliberate choice or  a reluctance to appear "aggressive". Do not assume everyone is altruistic. Perhaps you have a worker who does not want things to be examined and hopes you will simply give up or accept that it becomes "too late" to "do anything".

[Peter J]

HI Tooti. I get you. I'm just saying that in my mind your worker is going " who does she think she is. special? when there are so many people in this world who need real help?" She'll help you and youll probably get everything adjusted but people like this are going to make sure you pay one way or another. and if something comes up in the future they can screw you on they will just to make you pay. these kind get off on it. its psychological payback. just from my view it seems like your getting drawn into the game theyr setting you up to play on their terms. please take no offense. its just somthing i see way to often with these kinds of people. i really hope it works out for you tho. and good luck and take care.

On Friday, October 25, 2013 6:36:15 PM UTC-4, Tooti73 wrote: