Marriage And ODSP

[Ron Payne]

One major issue I have with the Ontario Disability Supports Program is how it treats those who are on the program who choose to or are lucky enough to get married. You see when someone on ODSP gets married the Ontario Government says it now becomes the responsibility of the working non-disabled spouse to support their disabled spouse financially. Now they are still able to receive income support from the program but now the non-disabled working spouse has to submit pay stub on a monthly basis. This so that ODSP can reduce the income support the person in the relationship with the disability receives. To me it is truly sad the Government of Ontario seems enjoys taking away the independence and freedom of those with disabilities who are on ODSP; by removing any possibility for them to fully an equally participate in marriage. Ask anyone in finance and they will tell you we live in a time when it takes two incomes to survive. When it comes down to it the Government of Ontario through its Ontario Disability Supports Program is discouraging people who don't have a disability, from marring anyone who is on ODSP since they will only be punished for it. I believe and some might agree that it is completely wrong for any Government to take away freedom and independence from those of us living with disabilities. But that is exactly what the Government of Ontario is doing. As you see the Ontario Disability Supports Program is set up to hold those with disabilities back again by removing any possibility for them to ever be able to fully participate equally in marriage when it comes to finances.

Read More

http://my-beckers-story.blogspot.com/2010/10/ontario-government-hard-on-people-with_20.html

Ron

[Deborah Masters nee Alexander]

Hi there:  Not to be rude Ron but this has been going on for quite some time.  I have been with my spouse for 16 years.  Nothing has changed in this regard.  It is definitely discrimination however political parties have come and gone in the last sixteen years and I have yet to see any change.

See Yah, So Long,

DEB

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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:37:50 -0400
Subject: [odspfireside: 37710 ] Marriage And ODSP
From: welfarel...@gmail.com
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

One major issue I have with the Ontario Disability Supports Program is how it treats those who are on the program who choose to or are lucky enough to get married. YODSP Fireside" group.
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[Hope]

Hi Ron,

Good post. I dream of getting married all the time and it's
especially hard when wedding season comes. So you're saying I won't
be able to work? I know they take 50% of his income which is
completely not fair to him (why should he be penalized for my
disability right?) but will also cause relational problems. The only
way for marriage to really work on ODSP is to marry another ODSP
recepient which I will not do as I want to have a strong financial
future. But are you saying I can't? I mean, I believe you in what
you are saying. I think too that if his income is high enough, you
get cut off. This can lead to abuse in a relationship, having to
depend totally on a man for your survival. Do you know what I mean?
So is any ODSP marriage really sustainable?

Melanie

[justice4odsp]

Hi,

I don't agree with the barrier to marriage either, but I'm curious. If
we weren't on ODSP and we married a person who had a minimum wage job
and we couldn't get one ourselves, would we not be in the same boat? The
money won't be clawed back, but we'd by trying to survive on the income
that the one minimum wage job brought into the household.

I have a feeling I'm missing something to help me with this
understanding. Can someone please explain?

If we can come up with a good rationale to explain why it is different
for the disabled vs the non-disabled, we could maybe cast away some of
the doubt from the naysayers who like to constantly point out how we're
no different than them.

justice4odsp

[Sayge]

This is why a couple friends of mine that are both on ODSP did NOT get
married.. They've been together a very long time but in order for them
to survive they have to claim the other as 'roommates' and they share
the rent.. Which they do, one pays the rent, the other pays the
bills.. that's the only way they can survive.. Neither of them are
going anywhere meaning they're together for life.. All they had to do
was get a two-bedroom and put a futon & small dresser in the other
room.. It's hard enough for one person to survive, let alone 2.. (I
know the intended post was of one ODSP/one non-ODSP, I'm just relating
how the cuts when people officially enter a relationship.. )

[northerner]

Justice, in answer to your question, it is my opinion that there is a
HUGE difference.

If I were not disabled and was in a relationship with a person earning
low wages and I was looking for work myself and unable to find
employment, you are correct that we would need to make do. The
difference between that situation and a person on ODSP wanting to
marry an employed person is quite easy to spot. I am unable to work.
Indeed some on ODSP are able to seek employment and receive partial
ODSP benefits or completely leave assistance. Many of us however are
not.

Being disabled to where I cannot work immediately enforces a inability
in me to search for and eventually seek gainful employment in order to
have independence and to be a financially contributing half of a
marriage, while living in a time where it is essential in the absence
of at least one person in a marriage to have a very well paying job in
order to support a family that BOTH partners need to contribute
financially.

If I were able to work, the potential would be there for me to never
be in a position to be trapped for example in a abusive relationship
for financial purposes.
Being that I am unable to work and my disability is one that
eventually may well lead me to be PHYSICALLY dependent in some ways on
a spouse and/or other caregivers. Thus potentially a day may well
(likely will) come for me that not only might I be incredibly
vulnerable and dependent for my physical care, but without an option
to have my own income from employment, the further dependence
financially may well leave me to feel trapped in a situation that I
cannot improve.

This is also the difference between OW and ODSP. People on OW are
deemed able to seek employment. Those on ODSP have a disability that
may make it impossible to have what I believe is a basic human right
to being capable of providing at least the basics for ones own needs
and security purposes.

I believe we can be judged as a race by how we treat the most
vulnerable of our society. I also believe that when my abilities are
stripped of me to provide my own basic needs, I should never be forced
into the position of being without options other than complete
dependence on a spouse.

[abrowne]

The other spouse can get a minimum wage job of their own

and it will ADD to the household instead of subtract.

Angela

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From: justice4odsp <justic...@gmail.com>
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 6:58:04 AM
Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37715 ] Re: Marriage And ODSP

[northerner]

That is true Angela. What of people in situations where a potential
spouse makes decent money? Not necesarily adequate income however to
provide for an entire instant family, one of whom is disabled and has
high cost needs. I surely would not ask my significant other to take a
lesser paying job in order to provide for my high needs when I'm
unable to contribute whatsoever. This however does not mean he could
afford to meet his own obligations as well as support me and my child.
Reality is we live in a world that most families REQUIRE 2 working
partners in order to finance even a minimal level of living. Gone are
the days men worked and women stayed home and men were paid their
worth for their skills and could provide for a family. Back in the day
for example a mechanic or machinist with a license, in a good profit
making company, COULD provide for a family even if never laviciously.
That is no longer the case when our journeyman are lucky to make $17
an hour. In a time where 2 incomes are needed for most, it is a shame
that I am refused a right to access programs I paid taxes into and my
potential life mate would be forever paying taxes into, simply because
he makes a salary. Sadder still if in order to bond as a family and
share a dwelling and a life, one could even consider taking a worse
paying, lower position than one is qualified for, in order to get
partial social assistance. We have to pick sides eventually in our
country. Provide adequate salaries for all so that in a one income
household a basic means of life could exist. Or allow people with
disabilities the dignity of accessing tax funded programs to ensure
their right to independently provide for their needs. Dependent on a
program is vastly different than depending on another person. Just
look at the elder abuse that goes on. There are people who struggle to
earn a living and I feel that all working people should be able to
afford a reasonable living (food shelter etc). That is a fight in
itself that nobody fights strongly enough for. It shouldn't change the
fact that disabled persons have unique needs and rights.

On Jun 24, 11:20 am, abrowne <browne200...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The other spouse can get a minimum wage job of their own
> and it will ADD to the household instead of subtract.
> Angela
>
> ________________________________

> From: justice4odsp <justice4o...@gmail.com>

[Beverly]

Being on the ODSP program is the best thing to take "advantage" of,
minus CPP benefits right now. I can chose to work 80+ hours a week or
1 hour a month, go to school and it still doesn't make a difference.
Jump job to job and tell my current boss where to shove it without any
fear of financial hardships (Rapid Reinstatement). That's right,
Abusing the system with my own taxes money at play. I can't believe
people would sit around home hoping for a better future and just make
it by on life support. Sometimes you have no choice but to care for
the other and stay home. That's easy just get a doctors note saying so
but who in there right mind would want to stay home. You can take the
other person with you to work or school. I've done that lots of times
and still do it to this day. (two minds are better then one)

For those who can make a difference, you can either shove it or change
it. I'm taking full advantage of the situation right now and enjoying
it before it changes again.

Here's one example, OSAP covers tuition and ODSP covers shelter/food =
The loan you have to pay back is just for OSAP and not ODSP

verses a person just on OSAP

OSAP covers tuition and shelter/food = The loan you have to pay back
is for OSAP
go figure...

There are lots of holes in the ODSP program but it is your choice to
either abuse it (risk of getting kicked off) or take (full) advantage
of it (also a risk of getting kicked off). It just a matter of time
before you have to see the Judge and then what. What do you have to
show? I plan on showing him/her all that I've accomplished while
taking full advantage of the situation and hope for the best.

I for one elect my-self to further get ahead in life meanwhile the
rightful person on ODSP wants to stay home. hmmm

[Uppity Woman]

This post is highly offensive. Not everyone is ABLE to get out and do things. If you are, then count your lucky stars and hope you continue to be.  Just don't go around dissing those of use who can't.   Uppity    -------Original Message-------

From: Beverly Date: 24/06/2011 3:07:31 PM To: ODSP Fireside Subject: [odspfireside: 37725 ] Re: Marriage And ODSP   I for one elect my-self to further get ahead in life meanwhile the rightful person on ODSP wants to stay home. hmmm

--

[abrowne]

Northerner,

You see Northerner, I *am* the working spouse.  I have disabilities

too, but I dissed ODSP for myself because I don't want to apply

to CPP-D.  I want to work and continue to remain productive, so

I made a choice.  Unfortunately, the choice that is forced on me,

that is NOT forced on other earners that are married to those NOT

on ODSP is that (a) I can run a business like any other business,

hire who I want, earn a profit, etc. like anybody else but I would have

to pay at least 50% of that in child and spousal support if I leave

my husband, or (2) If I stay, I am forced to twist my business decisions

into a pretzel, work 70 - 80 hours a week because I am not even

allowed to hire a staff person to answer the phone or even type a

letter and as a result, do all the NON billable stuff as well as try

to do the billable stuff as well ... MYSELF, and still earn an income

well below the poverty line, no matter how hard I work.

 

Tell that to the President of General Motors that he has to answer the

phones himself, type all of his own correspondence, do his own book-

keeping, answer his email, put together every vehicle he makes, transport

these vehicles to the lots himself and sell them himself ... every

business of any worth *needs* employees or you work for nothing,

essentially.  All your earnings go to expenses, so why work?

I NEED to hire staff, expand the business and I want them to leave

my income alone.  At the present time, working 70 - 80 hours a week

I get to keep maybe fifteen cents of what I earn .... the rest is not

allowed or is taken off my husband's cheque.

So, if my husband needs clothes, transportation, medical needs not

covered by ODSP, etc., GUESS WHO PAYS?  Me!  He has next to

no spending money, as virtually everything that goes into that house

is spent on household needs.  I can't afford to send my kids to hockey,

to soccer, to dance lessons or to camp (although this - like last year -

I made an arrangement for my daughter through Big Sisters).  I get

NO vacations, NO paid time off, NO sick days, nothing ... and I am

supposed to keep on working, or my husband gets cut off.

 

My accountants presented a report for me, my regulators included

a report for me, as well as I am on my way to getting one from my

physician ... because I am sick and tired of this.  If I stay in this

marriage, I pay.  If I leave this marriage, I pay even more.

 

Fortunately, we try to get along as much as possible, whenever the

Hell we can see each other !!!  But I do know of MANY situations

where the person with the disability was in an abusive situation

and had no money to leave, not even fifty cents to make a phone

call in a public phone booth.  I've also seen situations where spouses,

in my position, refused to cooperate with ODSP (as truthfully, this

has NOTHING to do with them) and because they weren't reporting,

the disabled spouse gets cut off.  As well, I also see a lot of sneaking

around where people are shacking up and not declaring and then

folks calling the hotline to bring this to their attention ... guess what

type of work this diverts the caseworkers from doing?  From helping

their clients get a job, get volunteer work, access other community

supports and so forth ... because they are so busy policing this

system to prevent people from shacking up!

 

It doesn't save the system money by doing this ... believe me, I've

been in to see the doctor, hospital a couple times when I thought I

was having a stroke, I take seven different medications ... all

because of stress.  When this was not an issue and ODSP was

not in my life and I made good money, I took NO MEDICATION,

saw my doctor perhaps twice a year and never went to the

hospital.  His worker once asked what I wanted - I told them either

give me a $70,000 a year job with benefits, or simply get out of

my wallet and let me earn a living with the skills I have.

 

This has nothing to do with my obligation under family law to support

my husband.  Because if this was the case, spouses that receive

CPP, WSIB, LTD, EI, even salary ... will get deducted because

their working husband or wife "makes too much".  Get what I mean?

This is more than double my load and I am not super woman.

Angela

 

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From: northerner <mellya...@gmail.com>
To: ODSP Fireside <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 12:01:33 PM
Subject: [odspfireside: 37723 ] Re: Marriage And ODSP