Asthma and Air Conditioners
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Rebecca Bradshaw
Mar 13, 2015, 7:36:13 PM3/13/15
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Hello...
I have asthma and I am not sure if I can request help from ODSP with buying an air conditioner.
Any info greatly appreciated
thank you becca
I have asthma and I am not sure if I can request help from ODSP with buying an air conditioner.
Any info greatly appreciated
thank you becca
auntie.canuck
Mar 13, 2015, 11:41:20 PM3/13/15
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Check this page out – I’m in process of getting estimates for air cleaner and A/C filters, and HEPA filters for my vacuum and filters and conditioners for my winter humidifier. It helps if you get your respirologist or MD to do up a note saying you require these things for your asthma/copd/etc. They pay for the initial device as well as the filters etc for upkeep. Good luck – best prices are online and kind of hard to get prices for those as you usually have to order more than 1 at a time.
http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/documents/en/mcss/social/directives/odsp/income_Support/9_6.pdf
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wagontrain
Mar 15, 2015, 7:21:20 PM3/15/15
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Be very carefully about any "help", this is a price fixed scam like mobility devices. They also make false claims on what is filtered. Search "hepa filters", limit the search results to sites having".edu" in the ADDRESS. These results still need study and comparing to get at truth.
Pharma grade HEPA filtering process has several stages of filters, then ozone is added to kill MOST pathogens such as mold and bacteria. This ozone will kill you too, it is not safe to breathe by any living critter. Its the amount of ozone that you breathe, can your body replace the cells in your lungs that ozone destroys? One ozone3 molecule destrys one mold cell, internet even has images showing this. Hepa ozone generator devices are not safe for home use, they were banned in Ontario in the 70's. STILL getting sold.
Home types of "air cleaners" has poor filtering, designed to clog, goal is to sell replacement filters at inflated prices. These can be modified for better pre-filtering using the filtering paper from new vacumn cleaner bags (cheapest is found in charity stores hanging near the appliance section). Tape a layer over the outside, tape another layer over the first filter. Change as needed, use tape that won't fall off. This keeps the second stage carbon filter from clogging, it will not extend its life, just the clogging.
The "activated carbon" chemically attracts tiny mold particles that pass thru the pre-filter layer(s). These adhere, they will saturate the surface in time, you may not see this against a light source, replace in 2-3 months. The carbon filter is usually thin, can be adhered to a paper filter or in a thin fabric, you can see the black. Hold it to the light, now see gaps between the black, indicates quality, gaps still works to a reasonable level.
Does the filter have REAL activated carbon or just IMITATION carbon coloring ? Don't expect gov to verify sold goods, they only acted on complaints after the scam, complicated by gov muzzling these days.
You don't need expensive to clean 90% of lung clogging fine particles from the air in your home. You need to move if its a mold issue, good luck getting a building inspector to help the poor get the paper, to get ODSP help papers or funds. Home built works better than most commercial units. The best has 2 layers of filter paper, then a carbon filter that is replaced every 2-3 months OF USE. The best has ONE INCH of activated carbon, commercial filters are round and cost about $100 from the USA. The machine cost $400., overpriced but it works the best.
To detect "ozone generators" installed in air cleaners : First off low level ozone smells, sort of like bleach. The air smells clean and pleasing. I tested a $3200. unit this winter, overnight in my apartment, a dangerous scam called Saviair 5000. This company is defunct, I assume gov jumped all over them, maybe just failed by price. It has a very well constructed steel cabinet and a $60. of parts inside. I got mine at a garage sale for $50., clogged with drywall powder. I will use it to clean my photos that got mold contaminated, but OUTSIDE of my home. Th cabinet can be converted to pure filtering, remove both ozone generators.
On the inside there can be 2 types of ozone generators. First is an electrostatic cage, makes snapping noises. This is a high voltage current arcing between surfaces, don't test with your finger! Its you that experiences the electrical shock, not your finger! The other common type is sneaky, has one wire leading to the PLASTIC grill, easy to miss, you need to remove covers to examine.
The first type causes "oxygen3" molecules to be created by arcing electrical current to aluminum (and a few other metals). The other type does this without arcing, but within the plastic. Both results in O3 molecules.
What no tells you is about the OTHER MOLECULES getting released into the air you will breathe!!! I don't remember the specific names (do the science search). Don't trust any air cleaner having ozone, don't trust marketing, don't trust high priced goods.
Home vacumn cleaners do not filter mold, it passes right thru, so do the pathogens. ALL home vacs including HEPA filter claims, read the science. Best is central vacs that vent to the outside, not inside your home. Next best is your vac outside and you use a long enough hose. Canister types work very good, did you know an old Filter Queen has the same vacumn parts as a $2000 commercial use? Get canister types for $2-5 at garage sales, I got my steel wand this way. These old vacs need disassembling and careful cleaning AND very careful drying of metal parts. You wash the motor parts too. Just like new, I have done a dozen over the years. You need to examine the electric contact brushes better deciding to recondition. Are they good for years, can I get replacements?
Last point is how can you tell black mold from carbon ( road dirt tracked into your home, its all over you). The carbon comes from car tire wear, exhausts, in the air from coal power plants, many more including earth. Take a pinch of dirt, place on a saucer, add one drop a bleach to a portion. Observe this in 10 minutes, did the color change? If true it is PROBABLY mold, no chance then it is carbon or other inert substance. Surfaces can be wiped with a damp paper towel, then test a portion of the colored area.
Do this when inspecting a new residence, a damp paper towel wipe, then place in ziplock bag, test at home. Tell the landlord before going in so he understands the purpose. If the landlord is resistant, run like the wind!
Print this and get help if my descriptions are hard to understand. People that sell air cleaners USUALLY know nothing about them.
Pharma grade HEPA filtering process has several stages of filters, then ozone is added to kill MOST pathogens such as mold and bacteria. This ozone will kill you too, it is not safe to breathe by any living critter. Its the amount of ozone that you breathe, can your body replace the cells in your lungs that ozone destroys? One ozone3 molecule destrys one mold cell, internet even has images showing this. Hepa ozone generator devices are not safe for home use, they were banned in Ontario in the 70's. STILL getting sold.
Home types of "air cleaners" has poor filtering, designed to clog, goal is to sell replacement filters at inflated prices. These can be modified for better pre-filtering using the filtering paper from new vacumn cleaner bags (cheapest is found in charity stores hanging near the appliance section). Tape a layer over the outside, tape another layer over the first filter. Change as needed, use tape that won't fall off. This keeps the second stage carbon filter from clogging, it will not extend its life, just the clogging.
The "activated carbon" chemically attracts tiny mold particles that pass thru the pre-filter layer(s). These adhere, they will saturate the surface in time, you may not see this against a light source, replace in 2-3 months. The carbon filter is usually thin, can be adhered to a paper filter or in a thin fabric, you can see the black. Hold it to the light, now see gaps between the black, indicates quality, gaps still works to a reasonable level.
Does the filter have REAL activated carbon or just IMITATION carbon coloring ? Don't expect gov to verify sold goods, they only acted on complaints after the scam, complicated by gov muzzling these days.
You don't need expensive to clean 90% of lung clogging fine particles from the air in your home. You need to move if its a mold issue, good luck getting a building inspector to help the poor get the paper, to get ODSP help papers or funds. Home built works better than most commercial units. The best has 2 layers of filter paper, then a carbon filter that is replaced every 2-3 months OF USE. The best has ONE INCH of activated carbon, commercial filters are round and cost about $100 from the USA. The machine cost $400., overpriced but it works the best.
To detect "ozone generators" installed in air cleaners : First off low level ozone smells, sort of like bleach. The air smells clean and pleasing. I tested a $3200. unit this winter, overnight in my apartment, a dangerous scam called Saviair 5000. This company is defunct, I assume gov jumped all over them, maybe just failed by price. It has a very well constructed steel cabinet and a $60. of parts inside. I got mine at a garage sale for $50., clogged with drywall powder. I will use it to clean my photos that got mold contaminated, but OUTSIDE of my home. Th cabinet can be converted to pure filtering, remove both ozone generators.
On the inside there can be 2 types of ozone generators. First is an electrostatic cage, makes snapping noises. This is a high voltage current arcing between surfaces, don't test with your finger! Its you that experiences the electrical shock, not your finger! The other common type is sneaky, has one wire leading to the PLASTIC grill, easy to miss, you need to remove covers to examine.
The first type causes "oxygen3" molecules to be created by arcing electrical current to aluminum (and a few other metals). The other type does this without arcing, but within the plastic. Both results in O3 molecules.
What no tells you is about the OTHER MOLECULES getting released into the air you will breathe!!! I don't remember the specific names (do the science search). Don't trust any air cleaner having ozone, don't trust marketing, don't trust high priced goods.
Home vacumn cleaners do not filter mold, it passes right thru, so do the pathogens. ALL home vacs including HEPA filter claims, read the science. Best is central vacs that vent to the outside, not inside your home. Next best is your vac outside and you use a long enough hose. Canister types work very good, did you know an old Filter Queen has the same vacumn parts as a $2000 commercial use? Get canister types for $2-5 at garage sales, I got my steel wand this way. These old vacs need disassembling and careful cleaning AND very careful drying of metal parts. You wash the motor parts too. Just like new, I have done a dozen over the years. You need to examine the electric contact brushes better deciding to recondition. Are they good for years, can I get replacements?
Last point is how can you tell black mold from carbon ( road dirt tracked into your home, its all over you). The carbon comes from car tire wear, exhausts, in the air from coal power plants, many more including earth. Take a pinch of dirt, place on a saucer, add one drop a bleach to a portion. Observe this in 10 minutes, did the color change? If true it is PROBABLY mold, no chance then it is carbon or other inert substance. Surfaces can be wiped with a damp paper towel, then test a portion of the colored area.
Do this when inspecting a new residence, a damp paper towel wipe, then place in ziplock bag, test at home. Tell the landlord before going in so he understands the purpose. If the landlord is resistant, run like the wind!
Print this and get help if my descriptions are hard to understand. People that sell air cleaners USUALLY know nothing about them.
Lorene
Mar 16, 2015, 9:13:23 AM3/16/15
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Good luck on that. I tried it and ODSP turned me down. Actually it was Discretionary Benefits who turned me down with a medical form and a doctor's note.
Lorene
Lorene
On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 7:36:13 PM UTC-4, Rebecca Bradshaw wrote:
wagontrain
Mar 19, 2015, 10:41:58 PM3/19/15
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Rebecca, I'm sorry my post did not answer your question. I posted wrong, was replying to the air cleaner post to your topic. Contact asthma organizations, see Canadian, American or European ".ORG" sites. Local will know how to proceed, with thier help ODSP will have to act, not deny as the other poster experienced.
I posted earlier today, it may have disappeared from hitting the wrong button. Short version. Air conditioners get mold. Best option is replace every year. Buy cheapest LG brand, they fail half way thru your second year. Don't matter there will be mold blowing into your home. Its too expensive to hire a shop to remove, clean at a shop, replace. Sell the old one when the heat starts for $50.00, they only cost a hundred new, but only at the box store sale time, move quick. Cheap is noisy, but affordable for most.
I posted earlier today, it may have disappeared from hitting the wrong button. Short version. Air conditioners get mold. Best option is replace every year. Buy cheapest LG brand, they fail half way thru your second year. Don't matter there will be mold blowing into your home. Its too expensive to hire a shop to remove, clean at a shop, replace. Sell the old one when the heat starts for $50.00, they only cost a hundred new, but only at the box store sale time, move quick. Cheap is noisy, but affordable for most.
On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 7:36:13 PM UTC-4, Rebecca Bradshaw wrote:
Justice4odsp
Mar 19, 2015, 10:42:43 PM3/19/15
to ODSP Fireside
This is a discretionary fund (for an air conditioner).
I understand Toronto has a fund. I’ll soon be applying. If I have luck, I’ll let you know. I too have asthma.
In the meantime, you might want to consult with your local ODSP office AND, failing that, the OW office. When I used to live in Kingston, the ODSP office did not always know that there were discretionary funds available to ODSP recipients through the OW office.
Justice4odsp
wagontrain
Mar 19, 2015, 10:42:48 PM3/19/15
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Rebecca, I'm sorry to highjack your topic, I was replying to the air cleaner reply. Nothing personnal to the poster, just the incorrect facts that have serious hazards to asthma sufferers.
Check with a Canadian asthma agency on how to proceed. The advice will likely be ask your doctor for the needed documents for ODSP to approve, but they will state what forms are needed if not supply them. You want money for the hydro cost to, it can be $100 per month in summer.
Mold and air conditioners : Basically an AC has a radiator like a car, blows air thru it to cool. An AC's is usually wet as moisture condenses out of you warm air, drier at the top and wet towards the bottom. This breeds molds if present in your home. Small amounts are everywhere, brought inside on clothing or open windows. This breeds on wet surfaces, mold can get its food from air. Dry conditions stops mold at 25% or less, but that is hard air to breathe, we like moist up to 50%.
You remove the grill and you can see the smaller air intake area. Hand spritzing a 10% bleach solution into the INTAKE at least once a week, this will greatly REDUCE the growing mold.
A mold sensitive person should have the unit cleaned yearly, not cheap and not 100%. To get 100% of the cleaning solution on every bit of surface in the rad (heat exchanger) you must turn upside down. Inverting will/may cause the unit to fail. That's why it is not done by cleaning services, just "good enough" for most customers like motor inns. Can you stand bleach blown into the air? You need an open window and maybe a fan to ventilate the fumes if an issue. Don't do the bleaching in the heat of the day as air cooling is expensive.
ODSP will spend money on over priced air cleaners to clean the mold generated from the AC !!! Get the air cleaner, its handy unless it involves ozone, they cost under $10 per month to operate. Buy a $100 AC unit from a big box store, usually the AC's are LG brand. Use ONE year and discard or sell for $50. Solves most issues and by far cheapest. I don't know if they last thru the second summer, that's the engineered gimmick. The box store will be sold out of cheap, forced to buy expensive that is also designed to fail in so many hours. The more expensive $500. AC with 8 year warranty is suckerware related to mold. Except for noise, the cheap is loud.
I'm on year 4 of the expensive model, I like rattle free AC air. I disassemble most things when new, see the AC mold traps, plastic covers and styrofoam air ducts that need to be cut away to clean all the areas, that bleach solution can reach. I cannot invert to clean the unreachable areas as I cannot afford a failure. DON'T use strong bleach, it eats away the aluminum fins, especially where rinse water does not reach.
A POINT ON OZONE : There is a legal limit allowed in the air you breathe 24/7. It is not effective, just a sales gimmick. If the unit is effective, then you are harming your lungs. Ozone smells somewhat like bleach, that is unhealthy. Ozone becomes inert within 24 hours of generation, falls to the floor attached to pathogen type of particles. The other GENERATED molecules do not, they are another health risk.
Check with a Canadian asthma agency on how to proceed. The advice will likely be ask your doctor for the needed documents for ODSP to approve, but they will state what forms are needed if not supply them. You want money for the hydro cost to, it can be $100 per month in summer.
Mold and air conditioners : Basically an AC has a radiator like a car, blows air thru it to cool. An AC's is usually wet as moisture condenses out of you warm air, drier at the top and wet towards the bottom. This breeds molds if present in your home. Small amounts are everywhere, brought inside on clothing or open windows. This breeds on wet surfaces, mold can get its food from air. Dry conditions stops mold at 25% or less, but that is hard air to breathe, we like moist up to 50%.
You remove the grill and you can see the smaller air intake area. Hand spritzing a 10% bleach solution into the INTAKE at least once a week, this will greatly REDUCE the growing mold.
A mold sensitive person should have the unit cleaned yearly, not cheap and not 100%. To get 100% of the cleaning solution on every bit of surface in the rad (heat exchanger) you must turn upside down. Inverting will/may cause the unit to fail. That's why it is not done by cleaning services, just "good enough" for most customers like motor inns. Can you stand bleach blown into the air? You need an open window and maybe a fan to ventilate the fumes if an issue. Don't do the bleaching in the heat of the day as air cooling is expensive.
ODSP will spend money on over priced air cleaners to clean the mold generated from the AC !!! Get the air cleaner, its handy unless it involves ozone, they cost under $10 per month to operate. Buy a $100 AC unit from a big box store, usually the AC's are LG brand. Use ONE year and discard or sell for $50. Solves most issues and by far cheapest. I don't know if they last thru the second summer, that's the engineered gimmick. The box store will be sold out of cheap, forced to buy expensive that is also designed to fail in so many hours. The more expensive $500. AC with 8 year warranty is suckerware related to mold. Except for noise, the cheap is loud.
I'm on year 4 of the expensive model, I like rattle free AC air. I disassemble most things when new, see the AC mold traps, plastic covers and styrofoam air ducts that need to be cut away to clean all the areas, that bleach solution can reach. I cannot invert to clean the unreachable areas as I cannot afford a failure. DON'T use strong bleach, it eats away the aluminum fins, especially where rinse water does not reach.
A POINT ON OZONE : There is a legal limit allowed in the air you breathe 24/7. It is not effective, just a sales gimmick. If the unit is effective, then you are harming your lungs. Ozone smells somewhat like bleach, that is unhealthy. Ozone becomes inert within 24 hours of generation, falls to the floor attached to pathogen type of particles. The other GENERATED molecules do not, they are another health risk.
On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 7:36:13 PM UTC-4, Rebecca Bradshaw wrote:
Lorene
Mar 19, 2015, 10:43:01 PM3/19/15
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
This long-winded email from Wagontrain is making me so dizzy for me to understand. IT was the same thing as you talked about ebikes, batteries, etc. I am sorry to say this.
You sounded so intelligent as if you know you are talking about.
Lorene
You sounded so intelligent as if you know you are talking about.
Lorene
wagontrain
Mar 20, 2015, 6:19:52 PM3/20/15
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Lorene,
Contact www. asthma.ca
There is a phone number listed too. They can help with info.
I am technical and post from experience. I do post from info I have read but only the proven.
Many will say AC's are no good for asthma, I say it is mold or other pathogens breeding inside the AC and explained why they happen.
Good luck to you.
Contact www. asthma.ca
There is a phone number listed too. They can help with info.
I am technical and post from experience. I do post from info I have read but only the proven.
Many will say AC's are no good for asthma, I say it is mold or other pathogens breeding inside the AC and explained why they happen.
Good luck to you.
auntie.canuck
Mar 20, 2015, 6:19:57 PM3/20/15
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Hey – great advice!!! Thanks for the tips!
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of wagontrain
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:09 AM
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
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auntie.canuck
Mar 20, 2015, 6:20:05 PM3/20/15
to odspfi...@googlegroups.com
Just get the Honeywell air purifiers - any of these series depending on the size of your room(s): 17000, 50150/50250 or HPA100/200/300/ These are recommended by all Respirologists. You normally only have to change the HEPA filter every few years – just vacuuming it thoroughly every time you change the prefilter. The pre-filter is cheap-ish – about $20 and has to be changed every 1-3 months depending on the lint etc. in your home air. It wraps around the HEPA filter. If you get the larger one, it can be cut to the size of your HEPA filter. I have the 17000 and the large one does 3 changes for me.
The cheapest prices will be found online – shop around carefully for the best deals. Home Hardware is the best, I find, for carrying the filters (or ordering them for you) if you want to buy them locally.
I am kind of disappointed with modern air conditioners – it seems they all cool with water puddled in the bottom of the unit – which just raises MOLD AND MILDEW ALARM BELLS for me. I don’t know what the solution is. Even refrigerators are cooled this way now – sending mold all over the inside so wrap and cover everything in your fridge TIGHTLY.
As for vacuum cleaners, they all recommend the Miele – but those cost a lot and unless you pay top dollar to get the one with the powered floor nozzle, they don’t clean worth a darn. I still have my 28 year old Fantom Lightning – the original Canadian made one – so far, so good! Getting harder to find the 2 different HEPA filters it requires tho – runs me about $60 each year.
Passing the soapbox to whoever needs it next.
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