ODSP tone is punitive compared to Quebec's

[wheelchairdemon]

Hi Folks,

Me again.  We must get creative in our methods to stop the abuse enacted by the Ontario Government. We just have to figure out how to go about it.  I have some ideas, but I'm not sure if they'll fly and I DEFINITELY know I can't go it alone.

I decided today to read the ODSP Act and then compare it with other disability support acts around the country.

First of all, here is the link to the ODSP Act, 1997 - the legal document:

Now, here is the link to the equivalent one in Quebec.  http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.qc.ca/dynamicSearch/telecharge.php?type=2&file=/A_13_1_1/A13_1_1_A.html

If you read through them, you will see that the wording of the one for Ontario has the tone of being almost punitive. The recipient must do everything and if there are mistakes made by the ones administering the program we, the clients, pay.

Also of note in the Quebec one is the amount of support offered. It is very comprehensive in that it covers the costs for employment, education, integration, and even the appropriateness of where one is placed.

I haven't absorbed it all yet, but Quebec's seems to be more respectful and clear-cut.

Once I read it, I want to do some major searches to see how successful the program is and how satisfied the clients are.

For now, I will share this section of the Quebec Act. It is about ensuring the job is done right by the administers who are hired to deliver the program. What a contrast. (See section 38 of the link named above)

Quality of services.
38. The Minister must take the necessary measures to ensure the quality of the services offered and establish a complaint processing procedure for matters governed by this Act.

Information.
A person may apply to the Minister for information on any matter within the scope of this Act, or for assistance in safeguarding that person's rights.

Minister's obligations.
39. The Minister must also

 (1) monitor the level of satisfaction of persons and families having taken advantage of the measures, programs or services offered;

 (2) take the appropriate measures to remedy or prevent the re-occurrence of prejudicial situations and prevent the occurrence of similar situations; and

 (3) give due consideration to the opinions and observations expressed by persons and families having taken advantage of measures, programs or services.

Separate administrative unit.
40. An administrative unit separate from the units responsible for providing the services or implementing the measures or programs provided for in this Act must be designated by the Minister to provide information on any matter governed by this Act and to process complaints.

Requests and complaints.
41. Requests received by the administrative unit must be processed promptly and complaints must be examined and analyzed, unless they are clearly unfounded, for instance, if they do not pertain to one of the matters governed by this Act.

Information to complainant.
42. The complainant must be informed of the results of the examination of the complaint, as well as of any applicable remedy procedures.

Restriction.
Confidential information may not be disclosed under the first paragraph.

In order to properly expose the problem and get it corrected, we MUST go on facts... gather up proof of what we did and what they did. The proof could be written letters, saved email, recorded conversations, etc.  This information will only prove there are problems.

We then must gather up evidence to show how, despite our best efforts, we can't better our lot in life by getting a job and breaking out of the poverty trap because of the ill designed, and non-supportive programs.

Louise

[aline legault]

thank you louise for your research.. brings to light the true picture of the general bias in ontario odsp..yes keep record of all communications and dated..
 

Aline

[Denny B.]

Wow, Louise, you continue to amaze me with your fortitude and determination. I always make a point to read your posts; I find you stand out in the crowd. I don't know what else to say; you're an insiration indeed.

and thanks for sharing on the work and research you are doing!

Denny -

________________________________
> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:53:26 -0400
> From: wheelch...@gmail.com
> To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [odspfireside: 35973 ] ODSP tone is punitive compared to Quebec's

[Scott]

Thanks for that Louise. Seems to me the present ON Gov are looking for
methods to cut spending and ODSP recipients are affected 'cause
McGuity and Co put ODSP near the top of their slash-cost list after
that so-called independant report with all the muck in it about ODSP
Benefits being too rich. Remember all my ODSP friends, Vote in the
next Ont election.

Scott

[wheelchairdemon]

Scott,

That's the way it seems but you know, I don't think the people are bad
people. The leadership is very bad and the oversight is non-existent.

What's even worse is when you sit on a committee for the government, you
must speak and deliver reports in positive terms. You can't say, there
is a problem here. I went through that when I sat on the transportation
standards writing committee. The hired facilitator scrubbed the slate
clean and we were outraged. The minister got a glowing report thanking
her and stroking her for letting us in on the process. It was enough to
make you barf.

I don't think the government expects to not hear what works because they
can't fix it if they don't know it's broke.

I think the public relations schools are just too lily white with their
training and people have no idea that it is vital to point out the
problems so it can be fixed.

The other way of looking at it is if they're making the people sick,
then how do they expect us to work if we are getting to burned out
fighting for our right to live and enjoy life.

I hear and see too many demoralized people and they have every reason to
feel that way. But a good manager would be aware of the severe cracks in
the system and fix it. Minister Melleur won't do that (and yes, I know I
spelled her name wrong... I'm not looking it up right now).

Louise

[Ron Payne]

Well said Scott and Louise

Ron

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 2:17 PM, wheelchairdemon <wheelch...@gmail.com> wrote:

Scott,

I don't think the government expects to not hear what works because they can't fix it if they don't know it's broke.

[Louise]

Remember what the cuts are based on... Allegations caqused by not enough funding to do a proper investigation and legislation that places the onus

Louise

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott <rscottfi...@cogeco.ca>
Sent: March 27, 2011 7:51 AM
To: ODSP Fireside <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [odspfireside: 35997 ] Re: ODSP tone is punitive compared to Quebec's

Thanks for that Louise. Seems to me the present ON Gov are looking for

methods to cut spending and ODSP recipients are affected 'cause
McGuity and Co put ODSP near the top of their slash-cost list after
that so-called independant report with all the muck in it about ODSP

Benefits being too rich. Remember all my ODSP friends, Vote in the
next Ont election.

Scott

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[Louise]

We'll try this again.... The last one escaped and will likely get blocked by the moderators.

I was trying to say, remember what the cuts were based on? A statement made by an auditor general about seeing signs of abuse. No one had been charged, prosecuted, or convicted so there wqas no proof.

Instead, there was a piece of legislation that says the onus is on the client to report errors, or in my words, wrong-doing and if they don't, the client, not the author of the mistake or problem, would be held accountable.

Add to that lack of training and proper investigation into how the workers are doing their jobs, so there is nothing to stop the allegations from smearing us.

Louise

[Bill Higgs]

How true, dont put food in the mouths of people on ODSP,, but there sure
seems to be an endless stream of money for solar and wind power. Obviously
Dalton and family has shares in the solar and wind farm industry!!!!!!

bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott" <rscottfi...@cogeco.ca>
To: "ODSP Fireside" <odspfi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 7:51 AM
Subject: [odspfireside: 35997 ] Re: ODSP tone is punitive compared to
Quebec's

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[Ron Payne]

You do know what your talking about Louies.

Ron

[Nathalie Girardin]

A few years ago I asked my worker to give me an approximate percentage
of fraud taking place. She said it was between 1% and 2% of recipients
that are cheating the system. So doing the math indicates that 98% of
us are being subjected to a checks and balances system that can
sometimes be fair or become a witch hunt. My point is this-how much is
being spent in order to catch that 2%? Abd is the collateral damage
worth it? Surely they must have a profile by now of scams that take
place...