Pay Direct Rent/Impossible ODSP Staff

[Jennifer]

Hi, I've been lurking here but never posted before. I am a single mom
of four living on ODSP. I've been receiving it since 2000 and it has
always been tough to manage, but now I've run into an issue that seems
impossible to solve. Maybe someone here can offer me some helpful
advice:) My problem is with ODSP paying my rent directly to the
landlord, and the basic background is this--In 2003 when I had my last
two children, I fell behind financially and received Community Start-Up
for my rental arrears, then again in 2004, all in a very short period.
ODSP then applied Pay Direct and have been paying the rent this way
ever since. (I've lived in the same 3-bdrm. townhouse all this time.)
This isn't the kind of place you stay forever and make a home in, for
many reasons, and I've been needing to find a new place for awhile.
It's overcrowded, the rent has gone up to $950, and the whole place has
turned into a ghetto. This isn't where I want my kids to live, and with
my oldest turning 12 I decided to try to get out of here, hard as it
may be. Turns out it's a lot harder than I thought. Landlords do not
like to hear a speech about Pay Direct and filling out bizarre forms,
and many also do not like the fact you are on ODSP in the first place.
Toss in the fact I am a single mother with little kids and no money,
and you can't find anywhere decent to live. I can't be trying to do
this anymore. I need to pay my own rent like a normal person, not have
to tell prospective landlords all my private business, and get a proper
place to live. I've told ODSP this, and told them that their Pay Direct
policy is making it impossible to find new housing, and to please
remove it. They refuse to do this, saying that I can't handle my own
finances due to having the rent paid by CSUB in the past. Obviously I
don't even need to get into how insane it is to expect people to feed
their kids on the pathetic amount ODSP lets you have, and it doesn't
have anything to do with me not handling my "finances." With the
Special Diet termination, I have absolutely no "finances" to work with.
I am desperate to find a new home for the kids and I, but am literally
trapped by this problem. ODSP staff are not out there trying to rent a
house, and they have no clue what they are talking about. I *know* that
if I wasn't on this Pay Direct then I would have already moved by now.
I don't know WHY it's like that, and I'm not going to start a one-woman
revolution about it. I just want to have a safe home for my kids and I
don't understand why this has to be so hard. No one there seems to have
any empathy or understanding. I've asked to speak with a supervisor and
have been told this is not an "appealable" matter. It's such a small
thing, but it matters so much and I am just feeling at the end of my
rope here. Sorry to ramble on and on..I hope someone might know what I
could do next. Thanks, Jennifer

[abrowne]

Jennifer,

Unfortunately, this isn't an "appealable" matter, BUT you

can still go to the Supervisor and write to your MPP, about

the situation this is putting you into.  The trouble with this

"pay direct" is that it is okay for some people, as many

landlords do appreciate this program; however, this policy

still plays into a stereotype that people on assistance can't

manage their money.  I personally think if people were given

more money to manage, they might just be doing okay.

I've seen OW recipients charged with fraud because they

paid the full amount of their cheque on rent and they were

told that they had to find cheaper housing ... like where?

If the above steps do not help, you may consider contacting

the Ombudsman's Office, 125 Queen's Park Avenue, Toronto.

The Ombudsman's name is Andre Marin.

A

Jennifer <thepurpl...@msn.com> wrote:

My problem is with ODSP paying my rent directly to the landlord, and the basic background is this--In 2003 when I had my last two children, I fell behind financially and received Community Start-Up for my rental arrears, then again in 2004, all in a very short period. ODSP then applied Pay Direct and have been paying the rent this way ever since. (I've lived in the same 3-bdrm. townhouse all this time.) This isn't the kind of place you stay forever and make a home in, for many reasons, and I've been needing to find a new place for awhile. It's overcrowded, the rent has gone up to $950, and the whole place has turned into a ghetto. This isn't where I want my kids to live,

---

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[Hayesy]

my experience with pay direct, is that landlords like it here in kingston.
At least they know they will get their rent. ALot would rather do that then
not get their rent at all.

Lisa

[riledupone]

Isn't it illegal for landlords to discriminate against people on social
assistance? And I know you'd like to get the money instead of it going
directly to the landlord. And I would think that landlords would see
getting their money directly from the government. I know it's difficult
to hold on to your dignity under the circumstances. The rest of us have
the same problem. Try not to let ODSP wear you down.

H.

[peeebbbles]

Hi there. I can sure understand your situation and understand how you
feel. I know I would feel the same. I know that ODSP does have the
pay direct thinking that they are lookng for the best interest of their
clients. In our area the pay direct rent has helped a lot of people.
Any of the workers I know in our area have been very compassonate and
caring towards their clients and have put them on the pay direct so
that they would have a place to live and it does make the landlords
feel more at ease to get their rent this way. Some people would not
have even gotten the places they did if it wasn't for pay direct. It
does have its benefits for some, but I feel in your case that you don't
need pay direct; you sound like a very responsible person and a very
caring mom.
Contact your local M.P.P. and explain the situation. Okay. Hope this
helps.

Cheers
Donna

[ravenmonkey]

As someone else stated, It's discrimination for a landlord to turn you
down bacause you are social assistance. BUT, you CAN turn this into a
positive argument, tell the prospective landlord it's like getting paid
direct deposit, it's never late and it's always paid.

I know the waiting lists are long, but have you considered subsidized
housing? If you are in an overcrowded situation, they might grant your
application priority status. Some regions are better than others. I
myself lived in government housing for several years in St. Catharines.
We just moved to the boonies because housing is a bit cheaper out here.

Hope this helps.

[abrowne]

Heather,

While it is illegal to discriminate against ODSP recipients,

try proving your case.  They will never come out and say

this - they will give you an application and then choose

someone else; that's all.

A

riledupone <thegri...@hotpop.com> wrote:

Isn't it illegal for landlords to discriminate against people on social
assistance?

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[abrowne]

RM,

I have no idea about the person's circumstances; however, I

only refer to subsidized housing for those who will not be

working at all, or who have retired.  I know the problems with

this by direct experience, as well as the experience of clients

that once you start working, unless you are able to make

enough to get out from under, and get off benefits, I found one

loses more money than they make when they try to work

while on RGI; in my situation, I lost about $1.20 for every $1.00

I made.  But if you will not likely work again, due to your

disability or caregiving responsibilities, then it is a good option,

but be careful about where you are placed.  Your best bet would

be a building where 70% or more of the residents are not RGI,

or in a cooperative housing situation, where it is mixed.  The wait

list here is anywhere between 4 - 7 years and priority is only

given to domestic violence situations.

Angela

ravenmonkey <ckel...@hay.net> wrote:

I know the waiting lists are long, but have you considered subsidized
housing? If you are in an overcrowded situation, they might grant your
application priority status. Some regions are better than others.

---

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[Hayesy]

how do you lose more than you make?  just a question.  i am in rgi housing and work, i pay about 254 for a family of 6. plus my hydro.  If i truly lost 1.20 to every 1.00 i would lose  1920?  I really don't honestly think its that bad.  They take 30% of income and if you pay ultilities they have a deduction off for that, and then 150 for a family.  I was told that is how they calculate rent so mine will not go up much more.

 

 

Too many people have misconceptions about housing and telling others that it is really bad.  It is what one makes of it just like anywhere else.

 

Lisa

[Hayesy]

if they tell you that is the reason they are turning you down threaten a discrimination case.  I did it once landlord rented to me.  He didn't like me as at the time I was a single mother.

 

Lisa

----- Original Message -----

From: abrowne

To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:52 AM

Subject: Reply: Re: Pay Direct Rent/Impossible ODSP Staff

[ravenmonkey]

We were in a 2 bed townhouse in St. Cath and we both worked. They set
our max rent at 650 or so. It's not just subsidy, it's the rent control
which makes a BIG difference.You get your rent from ODSP anyway. The
problems are when you are out of rent control and are paying rent,
hydro and gas out of your living portion of your cheque. We applied for
c 3 bed when my son came along and moved into a co-op after waiting 2
years. Once we got onto the list for Niagara Falls, things went faster.
This was before the 250$ transfer fee. Now we are in rural Ontario in a
farmhouse. The rent is lower, but the bills are high. I wouldn't trade
it for anything though.
It's not for everyone, but it's worth looking into.

[abrowne]

Hi,

It's easy, when I was subsidized, my rent went from $115 a month to

$350 a month - overnight! - when I started working, and what was then

ODSP (FBA) took off 75% after my first $185 back then.  Work related

expenses, etc. were my own to swallow.  Also, one is not allowed to

run a home-based business in an RGI unit; I found that one out the

hard way .... and because I needed a separate study when I was

going to school, I needed the two bedroom and I had nothing but

harassment ... I would either have to quit school (because I have

high distractibility with CPD to study at the kitchen table, which

is IMPOSSIBLE for me), or go to market ...

 

That's why I switched to market, even though it took almost 75%

of my income at the time, but my income was allowed to increase

without fearing my rent going up along with it each month ...

I eventually did quite well for myself and got off ODSP back then. 

I was also fortunate too ... I was in a newly built co-op.  Unfortunately,

when you live in a neighbourhood with high levels of RGI, it isn't

healthy and this is where you find the so-called "projects".

 

Right now, I have stability. My mortgage doesn't increase because

I have one or two good months, then get stuck with it when in the

third month, I do badly.  It's always the same and I can plan better. 

I also dealt with many others who have had problems mixing work,

income support and RGI ... one hand doesn't know what the other

is doing and it is the consumer that always loses.

 

The only time one isn't as badly affected is if they make the

EXACT same amount of money each month and have relative

stability in the job - the going up and down is what hurts people.

But most people don't make exactly the same each month.

 

I also have four banker's boxes full of discovery from the Ministry of

Housing when it ran this program, as a result of two major lawsuits

I filed and how these policies negatively impacted on people in

specific situations living in RGI.  Most people never leave RGI, once

they move into it.

Both plaintiffs in my case eventually arranged private mortgages

with the help of their families/me as they had to leave for the sake

of their health

Angela

Hayesy <msw...@cogeco.ca> wrote:

how do you lose more than you make?  just a question.  i am in rgi housing and work, i pay about 254 for a family of 6. plus my hydro.  If i truly lost 1.20 to every 1.00 i would lose  1920?  I really don't honestly think its that bad.  They take 30% of income and if you pay ultilities they have a deduction off for that, and then 150 for a family.  I was told that is how they calculate rent so mine will not go up much more.

[abrowne]

Hayesy,

That's true, if they say they don't want "welfare mothers", etc.

(Bring a small taperecorder in the event you need this ;-)

However, the landlords are smart today and know how to

avoid discrimination suits.  They just have everybody come

in to apply, and if the ODSPer later calls and asks about

the status of the unit, the landlord just rents it to somebody

else; no reason has to be given.

The onus is on the discrimination victim to prove bias.

Angela

Hayesy <msw...@cogeco.ca> wrote:

if they tell you that is the reason they are turning you down

threaten a discrimination case.  I did it once landlord rented to me.

He didn't like me as at the time I was a single mother.

[Jennifer]

Hi, well, I wish I lived in Kingston then! Here where I live
(Brantford) the landlords with decent hosing DO NOT like it. (Keep in
mind, I also have 4 kids under 12 and I need a big place.) The ODSP
staff tells me that they can "work" with the landlord, etc., but the
landlords don't want to work with them! I feel like ripping out my
hair..I am going to take the above poster's suggestion and see if my
local MPP can help...

[Jennifer]

Thanks so much for the MPP advice. I had them call the ODSP office, and
I am amazed at the speedy result.I received a call today from a very,
very friendly ODSP worker who informed me that my PayDirect has been
terminated. No questions asked...it's a sad statement that you have to
make such a huge fuss before they will even see you as a real person
and not a faceless recipient..but thanks so much for helping me out.
Jennifer

[Dean]

Great Stuff Jennifer,
Congrats, you did it, and yes it is a sad statement when such a fuss
must be made however, until we are afforded a voice in our Provincial
Legislature, it is our responsibility to other ODSP "Victims" to ensure
we are at least heard locally, I hope to be that voice next year.
Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:odspfi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:23 PM
To: ODSP Fireside
Subject: Reply: Re: Pay Direct Rent/Impossible ODSP Staff