where do we sit?

[Occupy Medic]

hi.
this group has great expertise. this can get in the way.

single payer? or reform of the private system? who cares?

the problem is that the 99% are afraid that if they get sick,
treatment will be available, but unaffordable.
we must make ourselves so inconvenient that healthcare becomes
affordable.

what is the best way to address medical errors? personalized medicine?
who should we call out? who cares?

the problem is that the 99% typically do not get good healthcare.
we must make ourselves so inconvenient that the quality of healthcare
becomes better

our job is not to find the solution. our job is to make the problem
inconvenient.
the healthcare system in the us sucks. we all know it does. we do not
need to know why or how to fix it. we need to be able to communicate
to those that profit from a broken system that we have had enough.
drug companies profit, hospitals profit, some doctors profit, payers
profit, the ehr companies profit. if someone gets into the 1% and
stays there by providing a healthcare or healthcare related service we
must make ourselves inconvenient to those people. ows works because
they went to the people who were profiting and then simply refused to
leave.

we do not really need creeds or clarity or partners or long term
strategies or press releases. those are later or not at all.

we need to find a place to sit, and we need to keep sitting there
until things change. we need the unity to sit as a group. if we have
to leave, we need to decide when and how to come back.

the only question for us 'where should we sit?' and 'is there
something else we can do that is equivalent to sitting?' or 'is there
a way to make sitting more effective'.

we should stop discussing anything that is equivalent to 'what can we
do instead of sitting?' the answers to that question are not wrong,
they have just been tried before and failed for far too long. now is
the time for simple and difficult action.

peaceful occupying is inconvenient both for the occupied and the
occupier. if we pursue methods that are not inconvenient for us and do
not involve at least some suffering, we lose the moral high ground.
do not plan on occupying behind a twitter client on your desk at home.
it can start that way, but it cannot end there.

twitter is good because it is inclusive and can help us decide where
to 'sit'. the website should become inclusive and it should help us
decide where to 'sit'.

this is the beginning of the beginning.

expect us.

@medicoccupy

[Any]

Wow! Where do we sit? Good question.

Sent from my iPhone

[Nate Osit]

Could we get a version of this up on the site? I think it's an important question, and one we've begun trying to answer but have not set our sights yet. Doctors for the 99% have done a pretty good job, so perhaps we could look to them for guidance. I think one of the hard parts will be connecting to local groups. That said, it should be done!

--
Nate Osit
Nate...@gmail.com
Twitter: @NateOsit
LinkedIn: Nate Osit
Blog: http://nateosit.wordpress.com

[@PhilBaumann]

Hi, I agree with your assertion that whatever "Occupy Healthcare"
means, it aught to follow the #Occupy basics - if it can't then it's
not "Occupy" Healthcare.

This is one reason, I've had reservations about trying to piggy-back
Healthcare onto Occupy.

My sense is that there's an opportunity cost of trying to "Occupy-ize"
Healthcare - it's too big a field, and the basics of Occupy are not
Twitter and blog posts - they're actually sitting somewhere and
Occupying space (physical, as well as elsewhere). Those spaces aren't
Twitter nor other social media.

If OccupyHealthcare is to succeed, it can't be on one website - it'll
just die there - and, as I said, it aught to follow Occupy basics.
Otherwise it just comes off as an ineffectual attempt to usurp the
energy of others' work and focus.

@PhilBaumann

[Chukwuma Onyeije, M.D.]

I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion.  My impression about the occupy movement is that it is more than simply occupying a physical space, although that is clearly an important part of gaining attention and support for the movement.

Rather, I choose to look at the occupy movement in terms that are larger than the initial televised coverage.  I choose to look at the occupy movement from the perspective of any (early) movement.  In this regard it becomes important for us to understand that we are at the very early stages of this movement; none of us have any idea if it will be successful, if it will wither, or if it will be co-opted.

The important aspect of the occupy movement is that it expresses the frustration of a large group of people who feel their voice is not being heard on a policy level.  There is a sense that there are solutions and effective steps that can be taken but which are not taking place due to the fact that they would go against the interest of those in power or those in favor of the status quo.  In this sense the movement is really about frustration with inertia.

It's also important to remember that from an historical perspective there will always be times when goals seem elusive.  Take for example the common narrative regarding the civil rights movement.  Right now most people have the impression that Rosa Parks sparked the Birmingham bus boycott--> it was effective--> then MLK won the Nobel Peace Prize--> then he gave the I have a dream speech -->subsequently everything went well.  This is a narrative but it doesn't tell the entire story.

So perhaps this post doesn't answer where we sit; but it lets us know that we're looking at something that should and must have a longer lifespan than a tweet or a blog post.  Let's keep building.

--
Chukwuma I. Onyeije, M.D.
Maternal-Fetal Medicine Specialist
Atlanta Perinatal Associates
http://chukwumaonyeije.com

[mdi...@bioc.net]

I am going to throw my opinion behind Phil’s analysis. The
intellectualization of our goals through SM, a blog, a web site, etc. is
valid and key. It is our voice and words that others react to, adopt,
expand, etc. But it is a flat effect.

The language and intellectual language of the American Constitution was
the result of physical acts war with the British. The acts of the
revolution were tactile extensions of the written word. In our media
driven society it is the physical acts that get broad based awareness and
points people to the language and ideas behind the act.

This week OWS is taking people on a tour of foreclosed homes. Smart move
and creates a media rich image. We could offer tours of families w/o
healthcare and how they cope with simple and complex illnesses. Our
message needs context that the media can record and react to. It is sad
but the media is like a physician, the learned intermediary who will write
our Rx. The media drives people to learn about OHC.

Mark

[Nate Osit]

Thanks Dr. Onyeije! I feel similarly. I think physical occupations are important, and I hope they continue, but we need a diversity of tactics to overcome the barriers we face. I think we have a lot of strong voices involved with OHC so far, and I hope we can build it out more. I think there are many other sites which are on the same page, including:

http://owshealthcare.wordpress.com/
http://healthjusticeboston.org/
http://www.imaxi.org/

I think we've done a good job so far of outlining many of the reasons why healthcare is worth occupying. Yes, the Medical Industrial Complex is large, and won't be taken down by our tweets or blogs. However, I think we're doing our part by exposing the inequalities of the system, and making the case for radical, systemic change. This, combined with local and national actions, can make a difference. It won't be easy, and it won't be quick. First, we need to build our power

But, as Huey Newton pointed out, power is 'the ability to define phenomenon and then in turn, make it act in a desired manner.' I think right now we're cutting through the BS in healthcare and getting at the roots of the problem. We definitely need next steps, but it's also important to keep the momentum we've built going.

Solidarity and Health,
Nate

[carmen2u]

Mark:

I like what you suggest. For doctors involved with us who can get
privacy waivers from patients willing to open up their story, we can
video tape (or transcribe text w/ still photos) their stories for
posting. That is a powerful tactic that we haven't explored. We've
been placing our voices at the front of the line, when it is these
currently anonymous stories that tell the tale. If in a few seconds we
could ask such patients "what are your healthcare needs and how are
they being met?", I am sure we would hear about the gaps in treatment
and care. Mark, this is a huge idea you have that I hope the group
embraces.

C.

> > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:47 AM, @PhilBaumann <philbaum...@gmail.com>

> >http://chukwumaonyeije.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[April Foreman]

I think sharing patient stories is a GREAT idea.

IMHO, there may be a concern with having doctors solicit stories. I wonder if there is a way for us to approach patients more directly?

April

--
April C. Foreman, Ph.D., L.P.
a...@docforeman.com
(620) 515-0439

[carmen2u]

April:

What if we asked people on the site and via Twitter to send us their
stories or have them post to YouTube (where we could feature a link
from our site to the YT video)?

C.

> > > >http://chukwumaonyeije.com-Hide quoted text -

>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> --
> April C. Foreman, Ph.D., L.P.
> a...@docforeman.com

> (620) 515-0439- Hide quoted text -

[Mark Dimor]

Thanks Carmen:

We all have video camera's this can be some type of weekly installment. Still photos work but it needs to be the voice of the person or family very brief but powerful in its message that w/o HC people are loosing their ability to survive.

Also, Dr. Meier who presented on palliation in the US spoke about how her HC costs have gotten so costly that she is cutting back on seeing out of network physicians and co-pay so high she skips visiting physicians. And she says she is a full professor at an academic hospital in NYC. Those are good stories as well.

M

[April Foreman]

Yes! 

Let's get those stories!

April

[Mark Dimor]

I think we call out on line for patient stories. Have them either post that they want to talk about their experiences and life w/o or with HC. Maybe that will be my post to ask for stories. 

It needs a name, 'Putting a Face on HC in America' or 'The Face of HC in America'  or 'When HC Doesn't Care' But it has to be ongoing so we may need to bank a bunch before we put one up so we can rapid succession post them. 

Anyone want to bounce strategies ideas messaging for this with me?

Mark

[Mark Ryan]

I like the idea, and agree that sourcing the stories directly from patients (as opposed to getting healthcare providers to do it) is better.  

There will be compelling stories...just need to find them. 

Mark

[Ann Becker-Schutte]

Do we have an Occupy Healthcare YouTube channel set up?  That would seem like a useful place to aggregate videos.

Ann

--
http://www.healthybalancedlife.com
http://twitter.com/@DrBeckerSchutte

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Licensed Psychologist

[acc...@imaxi.org]

I've been reading these mails with interest, yet with a growing concern about what seems to be an absence of patient participation.

Getting 'stories' is not the same at all as having those most in need of #OccupyHealthCare involved in the core of building this initiative into a 'movement'. Patients should be contributing to this group list-serve in similar numbers as do health professionals, and mobilizing their families and friends.

Although I really appreciate what you are doing, isn't it time, for example, to go into the waiting rooms where you may work with handouts and handshakes? America's public health care waiting rooms are a good place for OHC to "sit", and grow from. Or at least begin to reach out to the existing patient support groups, seeking the meaningful involvement of people struggling with diseases and illness? Support groups can offer help to peers/patients, but can also harness energies for advocacy. #OccupyHealthCare needs this energy to fuel its 'movement' forward.
Cheers, Case

[Laith Bustani]

These are all excellent points.

Personally, I have occupied healthcare in the best way I know how. I
have made myself a patient.

I am in the process of demonstrating that only through recognizing
that the patient is the most dedicated/knowledgeable person with
regards to their own health needs and empowering them, can the system
stand a chance of improving.

In Ontario, we are (kind of) single payer, but there has been a 17%
increase in expenditures since 2008 and clearly the services are
eroding and the pressure on staff is increasing to "do more with
less".

With respect to "occupying", I have worked diligently over my career
to build up a reputation, influence, and political capital to bring me
to the position as the physician responsible for drafting the funding
recommendations for inpatient care in Ontario for the 2012 PSA. I
have been "occupying" provincial assemblies, my own proposals/
presentations, and the workplace (in solidarity with the other front
line staff).

I can do this because I am not an employee of the hospital, but the
patient/government.

The occupy movement's manual (From Dictatorship to Democracy) is
powerful, but I have chosen Primum non nocere as a more appropriate
rallying cry for my own occupation.

We must recognize that we are capable of much more than simply
"agitating", and that to "get in the way" of the system is likely to
cause harm. We are, individually and collectively, in the best
position to not only point out the injustices, but to demonstrate how
to overcome them.

[Kimberley Thompson]

We amy want to model BCBS "voice campaign"... they asked members to call in with stories about their experiences.

 

An #occupyhealthcare YouTube Channel could provide platform for those most impacted by lack of access to voice their personal stories (and access for media to use)...  community support groups (i.e. homeless shelters, immigrant rights, DV shelters etc. may be able to facilitate access to technology for those who do not know who to post their stories...)

[Gage Stermensky II]

During a staffing meeting I was speaking about ACA, ACOs, etc. and the
future of my current practicum site. It provides medical and dental
services to indigent and homeless individuals. I was brain storming
with them about the effects of ACA/etc. and physician centered care on
the agency and the future of the field. Walking back to my office I
thought about how interesting it would be to have videos of these
discussions to assist communities in becoming more aware and involved
in advocating for healthcare reform that can preserve community
services such as this. I see the patients lined up outside of the door
when I walk in every morning. The clinic recently had to deny walk-
ins, and then allowed 5 per day. Medication limitations have led to
many changes as well. In my role I don’t think it would be ethical to
speak with my patients about their concerns with healthcare reform,
but the health literacy office could be a place to do so. I can tell
you, cell phines, internet, and the like is the last thing on these
individuals minds. That is why I like the idea of including homeless
sehlters. We need their opinions and experiences to effectively create
national change in healthcare.

I also like the idea of a man on the street video. Taking an hour per
weekend and asking some broad questions, editing the clips, and
choosing a few that represent the OHC patient centered treatment focus
might be a place to start. It sounds really fun to me, but then I
think how can I be consistent with the OHC social media occupation
message. That is where I feel the previously stated ideas make sense,
and distributing links via health literacy offices, including it in
patient satisfaction surveys, or other public forums would be
beneficial and powerful. OHC isn’t about me, but the healthcare system
and the health care needs of the country. How does someone in the
Ozarks obtain information from around the country? SOCIAL MEDIA!

That’s the best way to link the country and support OHC into the
future. SM advocacy cannot be forced to leave or disband, doesn’t
necessarily need consent or releases, because every individual is a
healthcare consumer and their opinions needs to be known, not
necessarily mine or others who work in the field. I am going to see my
physician today, and I have no coverage. I’ll be paying out of pocket
with money I don’t have being a graduate student trying to support my
family. But I’m not homeless, I am not bankrupt because of cancer or
other long term illness, I am not paying $20 for my visit and have
excellent coverage, but I’d love to see how my experiences compare to
these individuals. That is how we find out exactly what we need to do
to effectively OHC. Class/ego/geographic area/occupation/mental or
medical-centrisms will not benefit us in a national movement.

Best,

Gage

> > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Mark Ryan <mark_hehman_r...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> >>  I like the idea, and agree that sourcing the stories directly from
> >> patients (as opposed to getting healthcare providers to do it) is better.
>
> >> There will be compelling stories...just need to find them.
>
> >> Mark
>
> >> On Dec 6, 2011, at 19:26, Mark Dimor <mdi...@bioc.net> wrote:
>
> >>  I think we call out on line for patient stories. Have them either post
> >> that they want to talk about their experiences and life w/o or with HC.
> >> Maybe that will be my post to ask for stories.
>
> >> It needs a name, 'Putting a Face on HC in America' or 'The Face of HC in
> >> America'  or 'When HC Doesn't Care' But it has to be ongoing so we may need
> >> to bank a bunch before we put one up so we can rapid succession post them.
>
> >> Anyone want to bounce strategies ideas messaging for this with me?
>
> >> Mark
>
> >>  On Dec 6, 2011, at 5:41 PM, April Foreman wrote:
>
> >> I think sharing patient stories is a GREAT idea.
>
> >> IMHO, there may be a concern with having doctors solicit stories. I
> >> wonder if there is a way for us to approach patients more directly?
>
> >> April
>

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[April Foreman]

Wow, Gage.

Could your turn this into a blog on health care for the homeless?

April

[Gage Stermensky II]

Sure, email me about the details, what you'd like me to do.

On Dec 9, 7:34 am, April Foreman <a...@docforeman.com> wrote:
> Wow, Gage.
>
> Could your turn this into a blog on health care for the homeless?
>
> April
>

[mdi...@bioc.net]

From today's NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/opinion/to-fix-health-care-help-the-poor.html?ref=opinion

Topic of HC for the poor

[Gage Stermensky II]

Interesting, thanks for posting.

On Dec 9, 8:19 am, mdi...@bioc.net wrote:
> From today's NYThttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/opinion/to-fix-health-care-help-the...

>
> Topic of HC for the poor
>
> Wow, Gage.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Could your turn this into a blog on health care for the homeless?
>
> > April
>

[Fred Trotter]

Going back to the original question, it seems like what we need is a
way to bridge what we are doing in the virtual space, into something
that can be done in the real physical world.

Perhaps we could reinterpret the question of "where do we sit?" more
generally "how do we occupy?"

I have written a tool that allows you to use a twitter @user, a @user
+ #hashtag or just a #hashtag to control where a QR code links to.

http://linkedlast.com

it is a pretty simple system, but it allows twitter to link into the
real world.
You can use this to broadcast the latest tweet, or youtube video or
whatever, but the QR code stays static.
I think it would be interesting to build a tool that could "populate"
twitter, in the same way Linked Last "listens" to Twitter.
I think systems that link the virtual movement to the physical
movement could be especially helpful b/c it helps us "sit" in more
places at once!!!

Just a thought
-Fred Trotter

[Mark Ryan]

Great find, Mark. Thanks