Great idea: Method to help folks in debt

[Allen Goodman: HLQ]

Hi Everyone
Take a look at this website:
Well meaning folks are buying the debt of debt ridden folks,
The buy the debt from the lenders for pennies on the dollar and instead of seeking collection they forgive the debt.
An example for $500; $14,000 was purchased; and then the debt was forgiven. No more collection notices.
________________________________
> From: palaz...@zoominternet.net
> To: patl...@me.com
> CC: trcfcoo...@gmail.com; marycpa...@gmail.com;
> tr...@trcfwpa.org; craig_...@verizon.net
> Subject: Re: debt idea
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:11:46 -0500
>
> RETIREMENT OF DEBT FOR THE 99%
>
>
> Sandy,
>
> This is phenomenal. Thanks for sending it. I’m forwarding it to our
> Social Media Intern, Intern Coordinator, Manager of Operations, and the
> head of our Building Social Change Committee, as well as to others.
>
> Nick
>
> =====================================
>
> From: patl...@me.com<mailto:patl...@me.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 7:13 AM
> To: Nick Palazzetti<mailto:palaz...@zoominternet.net>
> Subject: debt idea
>
> Nick,
>
> Look at this! What do you think of this idea?
>
> http://www.care2.com/causes/occupy-wall-street-is-buying-and-paying-the-99s-debt.html
>
> Sandy

[Allen Goodman: HLQ]

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> Subject: Great idea: Method to help folks in debt
> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:15:36 +0000

[Stephen Fuegi]

I have some serious misgivings about this idea. I don't doubt the good intentions of the Occupiers who thought this up, but think about this for a second. Where is the money to retire debts going to come from? Why from the pockets of the 99 percent of course. And where will it be going. Well, um, into the pockets of banks and debt repurchasing companies.  If we are going to be raising funds from the grassroots I think we have far better things to do with it than hand it over to the financial sector. Second, this whole idea does nothing to challenge the neo-liberal consensus that entrepreneurship and individual choice alone can solve all the world's ills. No wonder the TED talk liberal types are all doey-eyed about this scheme. Most individual pain from debt can be more cheaply solved by personal bankruptcy. I would be all in favor of helping people trapped in debt on a case by case basis, but indiscriminately retiring debt would in many cases repay banks for debts they otherwise would never have been able to collect on. Also, by buying into the debt market, this "jubilee" program, if successful on any significant scale, would naturally bid up the cost of debt, further benefiting the financial sector.  So I think this is a well-intentioned but ill-conceived idea.  

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Robin Clarke <clarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

AI'd like to try this in Pittsburgh. I know nothing about finance. We'd need peopel who know finance. And we'd coudl do a similar fundraiser--get the biggest names we can, local and otherwise, to donate performances. Or, like, a year of plays by some theater company in Pittsburgh, all the ticekts sales going to buy up debt.

Robin Clarke

[Stephen Horvath]

AFAIK, they're focusing on medical debt and student loan debt to begin with, so it would be going to whoever loans that kind of debt.

Steve, being a perfectionist by nature, I can definitely sympathize with your hesitance about this idea.

At the same time, I've had enough experiences holding out for perfect solutions only to find nothing to show for it.  I work toward the middle ground now.

These folks are actively reducing on the ground tangible effects for a good number of real people.  That's better than the status quo.  And they're such a small piece of the pie I don't think we have to worry about them driving up prices for any time in the near future.

I donated $75 earlier today.

Stephen

[Stephen Fuegi]

@Stephen: Part of my problem with this is that I also think it is unlikely to be undertaken at any level that will have much of a real effect. So this will primarily be a publicity stunt more than anything that will have much in the way of tangible effects. And this stunt isn't really challenging any of our ingrained prejudices toward consumer- and market-based solutions.This is a very safe stunt, as old as Jerry Lewis or Willie Nelson, that doesn't challenge us a society to accept collective responsibilities or impose collective limitations on our behavior. We will not achieve a more just or environmentally sustainable society through voluntarism alone. I think our efforts can be better spent elsewhere. 

@Tirzah: Another problem I have with this is that the program is going to buy and forgive debt randomly,and not to weigh the particulars of any given case, to see whether or to what extent a particular debtor can benefit from having their debt forgiven.  

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Isaac Hill <isaac.alex...@gmail.com> wrote:

So what would happen if a whole bunch of people defaulted on their
private loans?

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Tirzah Mason <tirzah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, Federal student loans cannot be defaulted;the government can attach
> wages to collect the debt. Private loans can be defaulted, I think, however
> the damage to your credit is for at least 7 years.
> tirzah
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Isaac Hill <isaac.alex...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> can't everybody just default?
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Tirzah Mason <tirzah...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Having a daughter who is so snowed by debt (student and medical) that
>> > she
>> > has to live at home and can barely afford health insurance at age 25.8,
>> > I am
>> > reluctant to have her declare bankruptcy (she can't clear student debt
>> > that
>> > way anyway) and destroy her credit rating at this time in her life; so
>> > this
>> > idea has an appeal and I would like to explore it further.  Some of her
>> > debt
>> > (since it is co-signed by us) would actually wreck our credit if she
>> > bankrupted anyway.
>> > Tirzah
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Stephen Horvath
>> > <re...@stevehorvath.com>

>> > --
>> > "World peace can be achieved
>> > When, in each person,
>> > The power of love
>> > Replaces the love of power
>> >
>> > - Sri Chinmoy
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> "World peace can be achieved
> When, in each person,
> The power of love
> Replaces the love of power
>
> - Sri Chinmoy
>
>
>

[Stephen Horvath]

The thing I like about the Jubilee is that it injects generousness, which for me is such a missing piece of the current infrastructure.  If there were more random acts of giving of the abundance that we all have, without judging whether the recipient is "worth it", I believe many of our problems would go away.

Generousness will ease our reliance upon the current economic system.  Like Robin pointed out, that has the ability to free up folks who are otherwise weighed down by the current system.  It seems to me a good way to build toward a critical mass.

On Nov 16, 2012 8:05 AM, "Robin Clarke" <clarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree, but I like to believe the jubilee could free up people now to live the lives they want, the jobs or unpaid activism they want, which for many will include just this kind of deeper, essential work. I also like the message it sends--these days I am perhaps easily attracted by revolutionary sounding things, quick and easy things that others put in place, like this, but I am. But maybe this jubilee prevents (or slows) the system from collapsing ala Isaac's mas default, which I support as well. I don't know if preventing collapse is a good or bad thing. I donated, and am glad about it I think.

Robin

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Helen Gerhardt <helenge...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've got to agree with Fuegi here - this is no argument born of perfectionism, but an argument for our collective responsibility to focus energies on systemic reform and accountability  - the Glass-Steagall Act prevented many miseries for millions before it was finally gutted by both parties.

[Stephen Horvath]

In my experiences, the most sustainable, long-lasting change happens from many small iterative steps, none of the steps being perfect in and of themselves.  That's the way it happens in nature too.

Each step removes yet another brick in the wall, until the tipping point occurs.  Then the wall is not really a wall anymore.

I believe there is plenty of opportunity for steps that promote collective accountability AND steps that promote generosity and helping among our fellow human beings.

The old ways are so ingrained in each one of us.  It takes time to learn new skills and lots of practice to discover new ways to interacting.

Stephen