Imperial Horn Cabinet Plans Today?
darrel...@yahoo.com
[mailto:darrel...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:40 PM
To: ane...@comcast.net
Subject: RE: [budgetaudio] Imperial Folded Horn Speaker Cabinet Plans
Oh yes , I almost forgot. If you do build
them
make sure you use an accordian surround or a
rigid paper surround (the high efficiency
Magnavox 15 inch speakers had these) because
a
modern long-throw woofer optimized for sealed
cabinets or a modern rubber surround
optimized
for reflex cabinets will not work in a horn
cabinet. The horn effect acoustically unloads
these woofers (makes it as though they are
not
in
ANY enclosure at all)and raises the
electrical
impedance by as much as a factor of four. So
a
4
ohm 15 inch long throw woofer will flap its
cone
as though theres no enclosure at all (free
air
style) and the impedance could rise as high
> as
> > 16
> > ohms. In a modern opamp/transitorized
> amplifier
> > this could cut your electrical output in
> half.
> >
> > Just an observation, a cheap 1980s era
> Marantz
> > receiver would probably work well into a pair
> > of
> > 30-dollar Magnavox 15 inchers in your Free
> > Standing Imperial Horns.
> >
> > Darrell Lakin
3174 South Shore Drive
Smithfield VA 23430
> >
> > > --- Darrell Lakin <darrel...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > OK
> > > >
> > > > Its easier these days to scan it in and
> > email
> > > > it
> > > > to you. But I see we're neighbors:
> > > >
> > > > Darrell Lakin
> > > > 3174 South Shore Dr.
> > > > Smithfield, VA 23430-5508
> > > >
> > > > Ebay can hook you up with cheap speakers
> > from
> > > > these years, but JBLs won't be cheap! :)
> > > >
> > > > I'll drag out the scanner tonight and
> look
> > > for
> > > > the plans and send them along, hopefully
> > > > tonight!
> > > >
> > > > Darrell Lakin
> > > >
> > > > --- aneill <ane...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The plans for a Free Standing Imperial?
>
> > My
> > > > God
> > > > > yes. I would love a set of
> > > > > plans. It has been 50 years since I
> > > listened
> > > > > to those speakers. I might
> > > > > even consider building a pair
> > > > > Thanks Darrel. I really would enjoy
> > seeing
> > > > the
> > > > > plans.
> > > > >
> > > > > Art
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Darrell Lakin
> > > > > [mailto:darrel...@yahoo.com]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:37 PM
> > > > > To: ane...@comcast.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [budgetaudio] 3 channel
> > stereo
> > > > > from the fifties?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice. I've seen the JBL Paragon in
> > > catalogs,
> > > > > they
> > > > > were huge. I have a set of plans around
> > > here
> > > > > somewhere for the Jensen Imperial back
> > > loaded
> > > > > horn. It uses a Jensen driver. The
> plans
> > > have
> > > > > both the free standing version and as a
> > > > > build-in
> > > > > as they used to call it in the 1950s.
> > That
> > > is
> > > > > like a Klipsch Rebel but built-in to
> the
> > > > home.
> > > > > That one uses less lumber. Would you
> like
> > > me
> > > > to
> > > > > send them to you? It sounds alot to me
> > like
> > > > > your
> > > > > Imperial?
> > > > >
> > > > > Darrell lakin
> > > > >
> > > > > --- aneill <ane...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The 15" woofer was in a chamber and
> the
> > > > horn
> > > > > > folded into the rear and out
> > > > > > the bottom.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Darrell Lakin
> > > > > > [mailto:darrel...@yahoo.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:31 PM
> > > > > > To: ane...@comcast.net
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [budgetaudio] 3 channel
> > > stereo
> > > > > > from the fifties?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Imperials, where they straight or
> > > > > > re-entrant
> > > > > > (folded just once inside itself) ??
> > > > > re-entrant
> > > > > > horns have a very distinct sound.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- aneill <ane...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Darrel,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In 1957, A friend of my father's
> > > invited
> > > > us
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > hear his JBL Free Standing
> > > > > > > Imperial Horns that he had built
> out
> > of
> > > > > > > Teakwood in Burma. He used the
> > > > > > > Jensen LL-15 woofer and a midrange
> > and
> > > HF
> > > > > > horn
> > > > > > > in each box. The source was
> > > > > > > "A Journey into Stereo Sound" on
> > London
> > > > > FFSS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I remember also that he used
> > > > > > > Command Tapes with "Bongos Bongos
> > > > Bongos".
> > > > > > > Pretty heady stuff for an 11
> > > > > > > year old. After that, I built
> every
> > > > Radio
> > > > > > > Shack Amp and modified ever
> > > > > > > record player I could get my hands
> > on.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The sound of the Imperial Horns is
> > > > > imprinted
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > my memory. Over the years I
> > > > > > > built the Klipschorns and many bass
> > > > reflex
> > > > > > > enclosures but could never
> > > > > > > duplicate the sound of those Free
> > > > Standing
> > > > > > > Imperial Horns.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Art
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: budge...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >
> [mailto:budge...@yahoogroups.com]
> > On
> > > > > > > Behalf Of Darrell Lakin
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:39
> PM
> > > > > > > To: budge...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [budgetaudio] 3
> channel
> > > > stereo
> > > > > > > from the fifties?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey I owned Klipsch speakers! A
> pair
> > of
> > > > > Rebel
> > > > > > > back loaded corner horns. Bought
> 'em
> > > > cheap
> > > > > > too.
> > > > > > > The single Cornwall for a center
> > > channel
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > part
> > > > > > > of their highly recommended system
> in
> > > any
> > > > > > > brochure I ever saw. As i recall
> the
> > > JBLs
> > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > 'pushed' their angular dispersion
> and
> > > > > > > efficiency.
> > > > > > > Its just advertising. I really
> liked
> > > the
> > > > > JBL
> > > > > > > L-200 too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The only experience I have with
> > center
> > > > > > channel
> > > > > > > play with 2 channel stereo is very
> > > > > > questionable
> > > > > > > and extremely subjective. I don't
> > > > recommend
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > this crowd (:o) ,but I found it
> very
> > > > > > enjoyable.
> > > > > > > It came up at someone else's home
> > once
> > > > > where
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > local station FM stereo simulcast
> > with
> > > a
> > > > > > > television concert, both on local
> > > > stations
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > cooperation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The TV was on and noone paid any
> > > > attention
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > when someone tuned in the FM on the
> > > > stereo.
> > > > > > As
> > > > > > > the visit went on I noticed that
> the
> > > > cheap
> > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > from the TV set complimented nicely
> > the
> > > > > music
> > > > > > > from the stereo in such a way as to
> > be
> > > > > better
> > > > > > > than either. Much later I read an
> > > article
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > this sort of thing and they called
> it
> > > > > > something
> > > > > > > like an asymetrical sound system.
> For
> > > it
> > > > to
> > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > the stereo has be at just the right
> > > > volume
> > > > > > > level
> > > > > > > so that you can hear all three,
> which
> > > is
> > > > > very
> > > > > > > low
> > > > > > > of course...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Bell story about the first
> stereo
> > > was
> > > > > > > amazing, as I recall from a radio
> > > > broadcast
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > it they demonstrated it in a hall
> > where
> > > > the
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > the audience saw was the playback
> > > > equipment
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > speakers. What was removed from
> > > > everyone's
> > > > > > view
> > > > > > > was some sort of orchestra or
> > ensemble
> > > > > > playing
> > > > > > > Live into microphones. That must
> have
> > > > been
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > > shock to the people of that time
> > being
> > > > > > > accustomed
> > > > > > > to the recordings of the day :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Darrell Lakin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- aneill <ane...@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Darrel,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The original research into
> "stereo"
> > > > audio
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > 1932 by Bell Labs called for a
> > > > > > > > center channel. Klipsch did not
> > > > "push"
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > any more than Altec or JBL
> > > > > > > > did. The original research had L
> &
> > R
> > > > > > > speakers
> > > > > > > > 16 ft. apart. With the
> > > > > > > > existing HF drivers of the time,
> > > > > horizontal
> > > > > > > > dispersion was an issue. At 16
> > > > > > > > ft., listeners sitting at or
> inside
> > > the
> > > > > > sweet
> > > > > > > > spot, a point in space formed
> > > > > > > > by the intersection of the
> > remaining
> > > > two
> > > > > > legs
> > > > > > > > of the equilateral triangle
> > > > > > > > with sides equal to the distance
> > > > between
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > speakers, would perceive a
> > > > > > > > "hole" in the middle of fthe
> sound
> > > > field.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > center channel speaker helped
> > > > > > > > to resolve this problem. In
> > today's
> > > > > > smaller
> > > > > > > > venues with HF drivers that
> > > > > > > > have -3dB dispersion
> > characteristics
> > > > > > > > approaching 60 degrees, the need
> > for
> > > a
> > > > > > > > center channel is often moot.
> The
> > > need
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > anchoring a center in 5.1
> > > > > > > > channel setups has rekindled the
> > > desire
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > center channel speakers. I find
> > > > > > > > that the fewer speakers I employ,
> > the
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > the sound. When listening to
> > > > > > > > stereo material, I use 2
> speakers.
> > > > Even
> > > > > > > Dolby
> > > > > > > > Digital tracks sound better
> > > > > > > > using the "phantom" center
> channel.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Art
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: budge...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >
> > [mailto:budge...@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On
> > > > > > > > Behalf Of Darrell Lakin
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:41
> > PM
> > > > > > > > To: budge...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [budgetaudio] 3
> > channel
> > > > > stereo
> > > > > > > > from the fifties?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My vacuum tube FM stereo receiver
> > has
> > > a
> > > > > 3rd
> > > > > > > > channel/center channel jack to
> hook
> > > up
> > > > > > > another
> > > > > > > > monophonic amplifier.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Large livingrooms needed a center
> > > > channel
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > fill
> > > > > > > > in the "space" thought to exist
> by
> > > > sound
> > > > > > > > engineers at the time. This was
> > also
> > > > > pushed
> > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > Paul Klipsch with 2-Klipschorns
> > being
> > > > > > > supported
> > > > > > > > by a center channel speaker ,the
> > > > > Cornwall.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > also...Modern recordings contain
> > > enough
> > > > > > > common
> > > > > > > > material in each channel to allow
> > > > either
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > listened to in large halls
> without
> > > alot
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > straining, but the early stereo
> > > > > recordings
> > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > very distinct instruments in only
> > one
> > > > > > channel
> > > > > > > > that unless one sat in the 'sweet
> > > spot'
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > really could be a hole in the
> > sound,
> > > > that
> > > > > > is,
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > spot where some instruments could
> > not
> > > > be
> > > > > > made
> > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > at all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What they are probably
> advertising
> > is
> > > a
> > > > > set
> > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > mine that has a jack for this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What brand is it? :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- podi...@aol.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Does anyone know anything about
> > > this?
> > > >
> > > > > > > Found
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > ebay an LP advertising
> > > > > > > > > "three channel stereo," and
> > > wondered
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > deal was.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Take a look:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> _http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4855676799&ssPageName=AD
> > > > > > > > &item=4855676799&ssPageName=AD
> > > > > > > > ME>
> > &item=4855676799&ssPageName=ADME
> > > > > > > > > :B:SS:US:1_
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4855676799&ssPageName=AD
> > > > > > > > &item=4855676799&ssPageName=AD
> > > > > > > > ME:B:SS:US:1)>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > &item=4855676799&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
Inverted order for clarity of reference
Yes THNKS!!!!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Darrell Lakin
[mailto:darrel...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 12:08 PM
To: ane...@comcast.net
Subject: Did you get them ok?
Did you get the re-sends ok? I'll snail-mail you
enlarged copies to your home tomorrow.
Let me know.
--- aneill <ane...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I am missing pg. 2,3,6,&8.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darrell Lakin
> [mailto:darrel...@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:20 PM
> To: ane...@comcast.net
> Subject: Imperial Plans page 7 of 8
>
>
>
> --- aneill <ane...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Darrel,
> >
> > You sound like man who shares my interest in
> > acoustics. Over the years,
> > many of them now, I built Electrovoice bass
> > reflex enclosures using their LS
> > and SP building block kits. I also owned
> > AR3a's, Wharfedale D-90's, Dynaco
> > A25's (I still use these). In the late '60's
> I
> > bought a pair of Altec
> > Lansing A7-500 Voice of the Theater Speakers.
>
> > I sold them in 1975 and
> > bought EV Sentry III speakers...the first EV
> > design to employ Thiel
> > alignment and an active equalizer. I still
> use
> > these for my rear channels.
> > I pair them with the Dynaco A25's. The
> Sentrys
> > are bass reflex 15" units
> > with 25" x 13" sectoral midrange horn ahd the
> > famous EV ST350 tweeter. In
> > 1992 I bought VMPS STIII's and have used
> those
> > as my primaries ever since.
> >
> > If I were to build the Imperial Horns, I
> would
> > have to find a very low
> > compliance woofer with rubber or no surround.
>
> > I believe they call for a
> > free air resonance of 43Hz. I do not
> remember
> > any other details. My Dad's
> > friend used Jensen LL-15's and they passed
> into
> > neverland long ago. I
> > understood that the final resting place for
> > those speakers was a monastery
> > in Chicago.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has
> the
> > > > best
> > > > > > spam
> > > > > > > > protection around
> > > > > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * Visit your group
> > > > "budgetaudio
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/budgetaudio>
> > > > > > "
> > > > > > > > on the web.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from
> this
> > > > > group,
> > > > > > > send
> > > > > > > > an email to:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > budgetaudio...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
<mailto:budgetaudio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo!
> > Groups
> > > is
> > > > > > > subject
> > > > > > > > to the Yahoo!
> > > > > > > >
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> > > > > Terms
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the
> > > best
> > > > > spam
> > > > > > > protection around
> > > > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * Visit your group
> > > "budgetaudio
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/budgetaudio>
> > > > > "
> > > > > > > on the web.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this
> > > > group,
> > > > > > send
> > > > > > > an email to:
> > > > > > >
> > > budgetaudio...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
<mailto:budgetaudio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo!
> Groups
> > is
> > > > > > subject
> > > > > > > to the Yahoo!
> > > > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
> > > > Terms
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
> > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the
> > best
> > > > spam
> > > > > > protection around
> > > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the
> best
> > > spam
> > > > > protection around
> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
> > spam
> > > > protection around
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
> spam
> > > protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Copyright © 1994-2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved. Terms of
Service - Copyright/IP Policy - Guidelines - Ad Feedback
NOTICE: We collect personal information on this site.
To learn more about how we use your information, see our Privacy Policy