Help needed with respirator

[Enrico Schiaffella]

Hello,

I recently realized that I have been making quite a few mistakes with my lungs protection. So, I have been reading and watching videos. I realize how difficult for me is to understand all those letters and numbers in the packages of filters. So, please let's make it as simple as possible. I have a 3M mask with P2 filters.

Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Comfort-Facepiece-Reusable-Respirator/dp/B00IF7RCU6/ref=sr_1_3?crid=29FE1CV8DDJUF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.BOb35CxQ6faDZNYnxgiAeygDgpBF_A-QtZk8gc3_NqLmrRALb5uk2jhnfGRJa6Qwy7ks1vuWs3ogCgWOD6FuypxDz1NOgvICM3rXPUTiK-NSO3s9ajWkXTSOXL4J7iFitrgSI8fwnZP6N2vLSS_COAhpnBzghpC7D8ldHM-jXPORm3G_gtod5-BTYyp5KMZ_7BZtJfEthZ9Rn5yQX4SdRS12C8RwxROuqdmQw6oVZYWNa8IN6LM9aEomRwn5QnnF3V_8LHgiSc8A9HRw1meEIlJ7tfaoB_-uN0qXks5Lu2I.qOE5WyAjZfqJ6K5WxcZSdtG4IsmI1RLCrWhjLJMVzio&dib_tag=se&keywords=3m+maks&qid=1719036645&sprefix=3m+maks%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Particulate-Filter-Respiratory-Protection/dp/B00065UIOM/ref=sr_1_3?

crid=1K1Z71YOWXG8I&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.bmITCadxve1gZnzKdx5BkyrghmIvaChxItoYMX45m6m5F7ofqUJ5UGCqNMUcnb6culuQrGNJClrTdyP2bt6TTTs1eTBw6vx7V9nxqFIGSrDWNmZKBcyrpQHtNS_PowpaoapdVxL5ql3cab6KSQYtohQ-EkuN0hAzPUT9s4pZOVmBhdmN5EsXdutyeCsgknaWTT056cPcx8jZVCoB8Yq9TcaeqSDGUWOS6OAI8be8hB0.DwJglF5nUp4oOjh55qHvrcaZinHiyasyqgW4mser2Wo&dib_tag=se&keywords=3m+5201&qid=1719036729&sr=8-3

[Enrico Schiaffella]

Is it ok for sanding wood? Should I wear a P3 filter instead of P2? Is there something lighter to wear? with this hot weather it's not pleasant to wear that heavy dust maks.

Thanks

[Robbie O'Brien]

I use one like this for dust. https://amzn.to/3xCpb5t

I use one similar to the one you showed when spraying and have organic cartridges in it to protect against the solvents and harmful chemicals.

Robbie

Lutherie Academy by O'Brien Guitars lutherieacademy.com Keep track of the changes going on now at O'Brien Guitars by signing up for my newsletter

---

From: 'Enrico Schiaffella' via Robert O'Brien Guitar Building Forum <obrien...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2024 23:15
To: Robert O'Brien Guitar Building Forum <obrien...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Help needed with respirator

 

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[Michael Minton]

The problem with dust is that the smallest particles are the most harmful, and they are the ones least likely to be effectively filtered by most masks.

I'm trying to scrape more and sand less.

That said, if you want good protection, you probably need a positive air mask

3M 6800PF Powerflow Face-Mounted Powered Air Purifying Respirator | 3M Respirators | Enviro Safety (envirosafetyproducts.com)

[Sean Gilbert]

I have used the RZ masks, but find it difficult to get a tight face seal and there is some degree of leakage. Definitely useful, but does have limitations and the design with the vents is really annoying to use in my opinion. I still use them some, but also got myself a 3m mask with cartridges that looks more like what painters use. Seems better, but probably is not the best. I try to do as much sanding as I can in the garage with the door open rather than in my basement work area.

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[Enrico Schiaffella]

Thank you for your reply. I admit I have made a huge mistake. I always used the covid masks thinking that I would get some protection. It was such a stupid idea. I hope I did not damage my lungs too much. The problem with some whole face masks is that they are too cumbersome. Also, I don't think you can wear sight glasses with them. I also suspect that in Europe with have a different coding system for dust masks compared to USA. I don't think you have the FFP2 or FFP3 system, do you? Anyway thanks for the suggestions.

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[robnewell54]

Hi Enrico

I'm retired, but used to review medical evidence for a living. There are a few things you need to know about masks. The first is that the so-called COVID masks are deonstrably ineffective in controlling the spread of COVID in the general population (see the Chochrane reviews if you want), BUT they are of some effect in woodshops, so the mistake you believe you have made is not as huge as you think. I recommend this very balanced Youtube by an experienced woodworker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcWPaQN1UZg

Second, most face masks with a good seal are uncomfortable to some degree, and a good seal is actually hard to come by. Even so, a mask like the one Robbie suggests is well ahead of surgical masks. It is great for the infrequent woodworker in environments where there is relatively little wood dust. I suspect Robbie has a pretty good scavenging system attached to his power tools.

If you plan on making quite a few guitars, I recommend the following:

Connect any power tool that generates dust to a shop vac (at least). About £50 here in the UK. If you have the skill and time, make an extraction system which can be linked to all your power tools. I did mine in a couple of days at a total cost of £100 or so. It fixes to my random orbital sander, my hand sander (the backing pad has a run off for suction), my belt sander, my bandsaw, my thickness sander. You should also consider an air filter to get rid of dust that is floating in the atmosphere (About £300 in the UK). Tools which creat chips rather than fine dust don't need a mask unless you have allergies. The particles are too big. Even for quite large dust particles, you should use a mask as so-called 'nuisance dust' is still a lung irritant, although, as another commentator mentions, the smaller the particles the greater the health risk.

The best respirators are powered and pull air through the filters. These don't need to precise seal a facemask does because air is being continuously vented out and so dust can't get in easily. These are expensive at between £300 and £500, but you often see them on offer and they are a worthwhile investment if you can justify the cost, as they are very comfortable. I pull mine on even for hand sanding except for trivial amounts. The better ones for home shop use are called powercaps (various brands). I don't recommend the space helmet type alternatives - they are top heavy but probably more for an industrial environment (I've used both kinds). Both these produce also protect your eye, while a lot of facemasks mist up safety glasses. Of course, you don't lay out all this money at once, but these caps are about the same price as a good set of guitar woods. Doing everything I said is maybe three sets.

The key thing is to minimise exposure, and, as it says in the vid I recommended, even poor respiratory equipment is better than none at all - a lot better! One pair of eyes, one pair of lungs - difficult to repair.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Rob

[Joe Shuter]

I have tried many different types of dust mask in my instrument building journey. Personally I have the best results using 3M's N95 mask with the metal clip on the bridge of the nose. Some days I spend all day on my 24" Super max thickness sander out side. I will be totally covered in dust from head to foot and experience no difficulties breathing at all. It works for me! Scooter

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[Robert Newell]

That is a good mask, but outside is a a whole different matter. I have a single garage where I can occasionally open the front door if I move a lot of kit out of the way 🤣. Hi Joe.

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Rob

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[MICHAEL HARGROVE]

Robbie, I bought one like that and it does not seal well around the sides of my nose. Maybe it's me, but I'm not happy with it.

 

Mike

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[Enrico Schiaffella]

Hi Rob, thanks a lot your message was very useful. I am a bit relieved, although I am pretty sure I breathed a lot of bad dust. I tried the trend mask but I returned it cause I found it too uncomfortable to wear. Could you please advise a good ventilated mask? Not too uncomfortable to use?

[Robert Newell]

Hi Enrico

This is the powered respirator I use:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Powercap-Active-8hr-Multi-Plug/dp/B0C1CP2R7Q/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2CRSVNVYHYOPI&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.y-KgSKQdZVuIEDtLpPTAIp0nNW8fdWudrixOPjPN61zmsi2HiSbt7-IncqKr5Mc1QyYez3poxaIvl8VaKYotou5DvdiIIO339npzsuWsOWiTqtpOkX1Qx7iwfgwMOMv-UfPZD6RDWWWpmCIOwQ1ZVVrMfDjQslokTGFAUG904oCdn9nLQe7wZSBh-qlOzVyZ86hhH_82NlEBzSsHbS9KGcbfFfoXOvWGzNNB7xBmUoUNyWlQccbvJc60elfzDPwqhbJxM6Kou9dkrhGp5NpPMyuIOkZsejZFTrYc1qgCuCo.467pQ6W78S354Hyeuz3jf6BzKhKXofDHGyk27ocgmb0&dib_tag=se&keywords=jsp+powercap&qid=1719314464&sprefix=powercap%2Caps%2C119&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.d7e5a2de-8759-4da3-993c-d11b6e3d217f

You see them cheaper than this from time to time, but I believe it is worth the investment. They are comfortable and you don't have to worry about fit at all. I believe they now make vapour filters for the powercaps as well particles, so you could just swap them out for spraying (vapour filters must always be stored airtight; particle filters it doesn't really matter, you just need to store them so circulating dust doesn't get on the inside). You can also breathe in them without effort. WIth a face mask, the better the fit the more effortful the breathing, especially with fine particle filters, because you are breathing against the pressure of the filter. I found this very tiring, and it makes you less likely to use the mask. You could work all day in the cap without effort. If the Trend you had was a helmet one, I think I once had the same one on. I think they are a potential hazard because they make your head heavy and restrict your view.

I do have a facemask as well, for vapour level sprays such as weedkiller (!), which I used to use for woodworking.. It is an older version of this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-6002-Respirator-Replaceable-Filters/dp/B00EJIMZT8/ref=sr_1_9?crid=3AF7MC883U90Y&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.d2izhIJfX0ZWfLPsd6Jmu18SeyLnSYVjtybwdGbEBpQA0hY1vR3aiNTRjupikUGtvL8-xzO8nKNFIqaBH2zyLrkOzrmCoytvylGNQ72nBT1jr_TZjj_hN1-M8f8Wt8nxksyye4cla7F_kk49E-OmWZW9sqpQPM3BqUyM4P1-n12nAc43Nvwhef5JqW7c94ASymfTQmpajzKyQ2gWWl8i6pjFEawtroqIpkqA2QyM68PDiG2W3Ulb3wA3kOOMW57goMxpZ96LGnsb59OuwDFdUfvr4mhI9ntT2OX2HgLVuEc.jzPl1b8BRy8wBiYgJQDpX8xP4DYb4rf7jYRuuNuJ4Kw&dib_tag=se&keywords=3m%2Bface%2Bmask&qid=1719315064&sprefix=3m%2Bfac%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-9&th=1

The one I have linked shows vapour filters, but you can also get just particle filters. It has a good seal and a large is good for an average man or bigger. If it fits, it isn't comfortable, for the reason I gave above. As for seal on face masks, the fit test is as follows (roughly): remove the filters from the facemask; put on the facemask so it is a tight fit; place the palms of your hands tightly over the places where the filters should go; take a deep breath. The whole mask should suck into your face and you shouldn't be able to breathe. Anything else is a FIT FAIL (Take your hands away 🤣). However, as James says in the video I posted, even a poor fit is better than none at all in the context of woodworking.

These should both be available in Europe, or Amazon UK ships to Europe.

Hope this helps

Rob

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[Robert Newell]

Hi again, Enrico

Correction to my last post. I just realised I was using the word 'vapour' in a non technical sense. Actually, powercaps don't filter vapours, gases, etc. However, that doesn't matter, as I checked that lots of professionals do, in fact, spray lacquer in power caps.

Apologies

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[Enrico Schiaffella]

Hi Rob and thanks. I took a look. My main concern is the weight of the whole structure including the battery over the head. That should add some good weight to cervical vertebrae. I got some compression. But at the same time I found out that 3M has some valid stuff of the same field. The adflo or versaflo. They are pretty expendive though and I think that maybe it would be to much precautions for a little of wood or bone dust. But the good thing about this system is that it is supposed to be very comfortable to wear. Very light weight 

Enrico Schiaffella

Via Sorelle Tetrazzini 39/39

00139 Roma

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[Robert Newell]

Hi Enrico

I have had significant back problems for many years and have not noticed any problem. If the weight is not it the specs I will gladly weigh it for you.

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[Robert Newell]

The whole thing weighs a kilo. The battery weighs 157grm. However, it FEELS a lot lighter than the Trend, which claims 1.5 kilo

On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 1:13 PM Enrico Schiaffella <enricosc...@gmail.com> wrote:

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