New course poll!

[Karan Singh]

Hi guys! Happy new year :) 
I hope all of you had a wonderful holiday season.

I'm here to ask for your inputs please -
Given the increasing reliance on tech for guitar making, I was discussing (with Robbie) the possibility of making a detailed cnc related course for the forum members over the coming months. 

Here's the info I need before I can take this forward- 

• would you prefer a course that shows detailed modelling of an acoustic or electric guitar? If electric, flat or carved top? This would be useful to really see where every brace sits on the guitar and how the entire instrument geometry works, before experimenting on expensive rosewood! :)
• Along with detailed 3d design, would you be interested in learning about how to actually manufacture the instrument on cnc? This would involve the necessary jigs and fixtures to be designed, which I can show you. 
• For those who have already tried a bit of cnc related work, what are the main challenge areas you'd like help with?
• Do you own or have access to a full sized CNC Machine?

Thanks much, and feel free to get detailed with your answers please!

Karan Singh

Bigfoot Guitars
7011800063

[Barry Oren]

Hi Karan -

I’d be very interested in CNC for headstock inlays. I have a small 3018 with spindle and laser.

Thanks!

In His Name -

Barry 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Robert O'Brien Guitar Building Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to obrien-forum...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/obrien-forum/3a035583-a8a6-4010-a7df-1964d0077d21%40Spark.

[Ryan Evans]

This sounds like a great idea! I’ve done some cnc work for headstock inlays and jigs but have struggled with larger projects like electric guitar bodies. Some topics that come to mind:

* choosing bits and path types

* setting up for successful milling on front and reverse sides of the piece 

* best practices around cutting depth/speed/etc

I have a genmitsu 3018 at home and also access to a 4’ x 4’ larger cnc at a shared workshop in town.

I’d personally love to see a course where you do something like a Les Paul from design to production. Really hope you decide to go through with this!

—Ryan 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2023, at 5:48 PM, Karan Singh <ka...@bigfootguitars.com> wrote:



--

[Barry Oren]

Ryan -

I have the same model CNC and am looking for a good source of info. Any thoughts? I had moderate success carving

the headstock inlay but I don’t think I’m using the proper bit - any suggestions? I’m also working with a laser module for

the same machine and could use any advice there.

Thanks!

In His Name -

Barry 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/obrien-forum/B03E1171-44CC-49D5-AE2B-B7BF6555D28C%40rjevans.net.

[Ryan Evans]

Hi Barry,

Take this all with a grain of salt since I have no idea what I'm doing (which is why I'd love a course!). That said, here are some notes from when I made headstock inlays and bridges:

The bits I've mostly been using are these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P7LGQJ6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

And these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073RJ3SYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

• During design, I create the inlay pattern in fusion 360 in the size I want. Then I copy the sketch for it over to my headstock file to reuse it for the recessed area, but slightly expand out all of the shapes a small amount to give myself some wiggle room. I found without this, things were not fitting after cutting.
• For the inlay pieces themselves it's been pretty straightforward so far, I set the pieces up to fit within a mother of pearl blank (or blanks) and cut to shape. I've been using a fairly slow speed but I'm not sure that's necessary. I think I used the 2mm bit for this? I didn't have any sharp concave sections to deal with for this part.
• For cutting the inlay spots in the headstock, I needed to do a series of passes. I roughed out the gaps with a 3mm bit, then did a 1mm bit, and then finished with the 0.5mm bit. The second and third bit are just for getting into progressively tight corners where the bigger bits can't go. When it's done you still need to do a bit of cleanup with a chisel to get a perfectly sharp corner. If there's a better way to do this, I'm all ears!

I've also cut a series of bridges out of different materials (ebony, walnut, rosewood, pistachio) to get a feel for that process. Progressively smaller bits is also good here (iirc I did 3mm, 2mm, 1mm). I want to get some round nosed bits to see if I can smooth them out a bit in a final pass, but hand sanding also worked well.

Attached photos of the inlay and bridge work I've done so far. The bridges are before any finish sanding to remove the machine lines, but they can give you the idea of the resulting shape. All the work was done on my 3018.

The only other 'tip' I can think of is I ended up buying a pound of shell blanks from this ebay seller and I'm happy with how it turned out, gave me a ton of nice looking material at a price I wasn't afraid to mess up with https://www.ebay.com/itm/265739955620?hash=item3ddf55eda4:g:5NAAAOSwC19bFCNw

Hope this helps!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/obrien-forum/3AE10579-8E44-468B-B69A-808D21E3AACC%40gmail.com.

[Dick Fulco]

Hi, 

I also have a 3018 Genmitsu withe spindel and laser.

Done some inlay on Fb and headstock and use the laser to make a veneer “sticker” to put in the guitar.

I use Easel and lightburn, recently easel has the feature to make 3D models.

Made some tryouts for carcinogeen a bridge, but that needs some adjustments.

Normaly I use 0.6 mm flat nose for inlay and Ball nose for 3D carving.

I do not have acces to a full size cnc.

I would like a course that goes dieper info the possibilities of cnc work in general.

Some picture attached.

Op do 5 jan. 2023 om 05:29 schreef Ryan Evans <m...@rjevans.net>

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/obrien-forum/CAPQP%2BW8Wogvxj4402FmmLsfRJRWG5xBuxnmgki%2BtPCawyWknbQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dick Fulco]

Carcinogeen?? Sorry, autospelling from Dutch! I ment carving of course!

Op do 5 jan. 2023 om 11:25 schreef Dick Fulco <dick...@gmail.com>

[Oleg Brovko]

Hello, I have a Genmitsu 3018 Prover and would be interested in a course that utilizes  a small CNC to build anything related to a guitar or uke. In particular, small 3 D ornamental or functional objects.

Oleg Brovko

--

[Jeremy Brown]

I'd love to learn how to do inlays, fretboards, and bridges for acoustics.  For electrics, I'd love to learn to do the whole thing CNC.  I have a 4x4 CNC setup.  

[Ray Cutler]

Great timing.  I’ve had thoughts of maybe getting into CNC.  I have a 3018 machine now that I only use for carving my headstock logo though I didn’t set any of it up myself.  A friend did all the smart stuff.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/obrien-forum/2537a4e5-dd84-421b-809a-d3ece6002c84n%40googlegroups.com.

[Barry Oren]

I’d be a fan of us all sharing our best practices on the small (3018) cnc router/laser settings 

and bits.

In His Name -

Barry 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/obrien-forum/CAEn%3DXk6ykmntb_FB4bDa%3DxWmkuEuLv4c-Kk2Bt3gTrnc1JTe2g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tim Tibbetts]

Sounds like a great course idea! My planned 2023 shop improvement is a 2"x4" CNC, so it is very timely.

Tim

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/obrien-forum/86A94839-E35A-4426-A3EE-8D7EAA0BC251%40gmail.com.

[Lamar Duffy]

Karan,

In response to your questions:

1)  Detailed modeling would be great.  It is easier to find plans & "how to" material for the software for electrics right now than it is for acoustics, so attention to acoustics would be my first preference.

2)  Yes, manufacturing, including jigs & clamping approaches, would be most welcome.  In my limited experience, figuring out how to clamp/orient the workpiece is well over half the battle.  For things like the heel of an acoustic neck, you have to be open to re-thinking the whole process, given the limited Z axis of even most larger CNC machines.

3)  My main challenge, aside from clamping the workpiece, has been learning how to do true 3D modeling, like doing neck radiuses.  2D programming is pretty easy to grasp for someone with decent graphics program experience, but 3D modeling is a whole other ball game.

Even if you don't want to take on the task of creating a 3D model from scratch, it would be nice to be able to take the intermediate step of getting a 3D model & tweaking it to your preferences.

4)  Yes, I have a 37 x 25 x 5 inch CNC machine, Probotix GX3725.
~~~~~
My primary goals in learning CNC technics are:

*  To limited repetitive use injuries & wear on my aging joints.

*  Improve reproducibility.

*  Replace large, space-consuming, expensive machines that are one-trick ponies (e.g., thickness sander), with a large, space-consuming, expensive machine that can do multiple things.

*  Extend opportunities to use atypical, local, or "found" construction materials.

Thanks,

Lamar

[Anton Harms]

Hi Karan,

My engineer son has made a CNC router for himself and has made radius dishes and a finger drum top for me.

I would be very keen to learn how to program it; not relying on him.

Classical, Tenor Uke, and electric guitars.

Thanks

Anton

--

[Philip Hutchison]

I would be interested as well. I own a Shapeoko Pro CNC and an xTool D1 laser.

In my experience, the 2D basics are easy enough (inlays, templates). It's the 2.5D that gets my head spinning, esp the toolpaths and CAM steps. It's literally learning a different language.

I'm also always interested to see how others set up their CNCs for guitar building, such as whether they use alignment pins, clamps/hold-downs (vs double stick tape), etc. Some folks do the entire neck on the CNC while others only do a rough pass then hand-shape.

For a course, I'd start with the basics -- simple 2.5/3D modeling, such as a Tele body or a bridge for an acoustic guitar, then work through the toolpath and CAM process. These concepts would apply to any type of stringed instrument (electric guitar, acoustics, bass ukulele).

Thanks!

[Anton Harms]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmq_8T5Uh1o

there is some impressive CNC work here

Cheers

Anton

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 12:38 AM stacye...@gmail.com <stacye...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mr. Herbert Hilton is looking for a reliable and trustworthy overseas investment partner to manage his funds provided you both can reach an agreement on the percentage for Return On Investment. or do you have any good business idea in mind that requires funding or do you need a personal loan to fund your business for as low as 3% interest per annum.

Kindly contact Mr. Herbert Hilton, if interested, so that you can deliberate further with him via WhatsApp. +32 460247966

Good Luck.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/obrien-forum/14ae17e2-6a6b-4d6e-a9a2-91884095ecb1n%40googlegroups.com.

[Chris Baer]

Hi Karan!  That sounds like a really interesting class, love to take it.  I'd be mostly interested in acoustic guitars, although a carved-top electric would be cool also.  Jigs and fixtures are always very interesting.  

I'm very new to CNC, but one thing that comes up for me is the wide variety of available programs that all have their strengths and weaknesses.  I have found a couple of times that it is necessary for me to process an image through one program in order to import it into another and then go through another process to export it for manufacture.  This is partially ignorance on my part, but I get the sense that this is an actual problem at times.

I have the Shaper Origin, which is really an odd duck in the CNC world - it's essentially a plunge router with a camera-driven computer system.  Pretty cool, but with some real limitations.  

Chris

[Arthur Beaulieu]

Hi Karen,

I am a student of Robbie's.  I would love to see a CNC course for acoustic guitar.

I do not currently own a CNC machine.  I believe I have a oretty good grasp of how they work however,  I am massaging SWMBO to see  if I can grab a CNC machine, but I will need to sell a coupe of guitars for that to happen. :-)

HTH

Joe

--

[l1jones_98]

Hi Karan, for me personally, a beginner class with CNC hardware and software recommendations and sample files for cutting simple jigs and possibly bridges, inlay work, slotting fingerboards etc. Links to tutorials for the software you recommend. Mostly acoustic builds. Thanks for asking! I would be very interested in taking your course.