Welding gas suppliers and updated NZ laws...
Gene
Just got a MIG welder and considering owning a bottle of Argon mix for
stainless steel welding since it's one of those "you have to have it when
you need it" rather than having all my projects pile up to make it
economical to rent.
I know OSH and the NZ government has tightened up the laws around private
ownership of high pressure gas containers recently. If still possible, how
would I go about getting a gas bottle?
Regards,
Keith
Most of the "Hazardous Substances (all sorts of things) Regulations"
have trigger points so a single cylinder may be OK. For instance for
LPG the trigger point is 100kgs. I'd have a troll around the
ERMANZ.govt site to see if you can find anything.
Or try the "Haz Sub (Compressed Gases) Regs" at www.legislation.govt.nz
Gene
news:434c80ee$1...@clear.net.nz...
I know the paintball and air rifle community have been affected by the new
regulations as a lot of the CO2(larger than 10oz) and high pressure air
bottles(bar the one that has local certfication) suddenly became illegal to
fill.
I'm not looking for a big bottle either. Just something to own and legally
refill. So far it doesn't appear to be anyone supplying them. Just browsing
Bruce Simpson's workshop pages I noticed he owns his own bottles... might
send him a mail in enquiry.
EMB
Air Liquide will fill owner cylinders so they should be able to point
you in the right direction. One of the engineering supplies places
(IIRC Paykels, but I'm not certain) was selling owner CO2 cylinders a
year or so ago, and I believe that if the valve was changed and they
were painted correctly you could use them for Argoshield.
However, the cylinders were ~$250 (+GST) which equates to about 2 years
rental, you are responsible for your own hydro testing and refills are
on a drop off today and collect in a couple of days time basis. Add to
that the fact that AFAIK BOC don't fill client owned cylinders but Air
Liquide are about 40% dearer than BOC for their Blueshield product and
it's probably just easier to rent a cylinder from BOC (which I've done
after going thru the whole exercise earlier this year).
Bruce's owner cylinders are probably oxy-acetylene which are being
slowly phased out by BOC.
--
EMB
Geoff M
I have a number of owner gas bottles, including CO2 for the mig (steel) and
argon for the TIG.
There are oxy and acetylene exchange bottles around (BOC DX bottles). The
lease scheme expires Sept 2008.
The limitation for doing the obvious thing and bringing in a bottle from
www.harborfreight.com or similar in the US is the LAB number, stamped
around the neck - even though the manufacturing (DOT yyy for US made
bottles, ASxxxx for ozzie) standard is the same. This is NZ specific and
shows that a hugely expensive test regime has been done on each batch. BOC
(then NZIG) I suspect had some influence on this, as the rental system is a
nice little earner. I see that scuba bottles have the same markings and
ASxxxx stamp as my argon bottles. Valve is different, but you can buy
valves form Eastside cyl testing in Hamilton. As long as you match the
valve thread, which is a standard (see the BOC regulator charts for the
fitting type) you should also be able to buy valves from the US, which is
not under the heel of the BOC thieves. The gas pressure, test certs, etc
are same for scuba bottles as for other non-oxy compressed gases.
Oxy bottles have tougher rules than inert gases, due to the possibility of
fires from internal corrosion. One of my argon bottles was not acceptable
for oxy, but passed for argon.
A CO2 fire extinguisher is another option. The Carbonic ones have the right
thread if you replace the valve and get it re certified.
Argon and oxygen use the same valves, so you could repaint an oxy bottle
and fill it with argon, or argon/CO2 mix.
now, refilling and testing.
Testing is required every 10 years. It is a while since I had mine done,
but IIRC my big oxy bottle was around $60-80 3 years ago. i used
Eastside cylinder testing in Hamilton - top people, and AFAIK one of the
few outside BOC/Air Liquide duopoly certified to test oxy bottles. Very
helpful, but won't let anything dodgy past.
Oxyman in Hamilton can refill, and can also test acetylene bottles. gas
price is similar to BOC, but nicer to deal with and more competent (this is
not hard). There is a machinery dealer just out of Hamilton that frequently
has bottles for sale. Can't remember the name - about 10mins north of
Hamilton, and has a pile of rusting relics out the front.
If you are in Auckland, look up Supagas in Hobbil Ave, Manukau. They are
the agents for Oxyman, and can organise for your bottles to go for testing
as well if needed. Good people with my limited dealings with them.
having my own bottles has saved me hundreds of dollars each year and let me
afford to have my own TIG, MIG and gas sets.
BOC lost one of my CO2 bottles before I found Eastside. They were extremely
unhelpful about finding it again. They also take 6 weeks (!) to fill
private bottles. Oxyman will do it while you wait if you are in Hamilton.
Supagas is a week
Put some ads in the trade and exchange - that is how I got some of mine.
Watch for rental bottles - if they have NZIG or similar around the neck,
they don't belong to the person selling them. You could get a DX exchange
oxy bottle and get that refilled with argon mix. Best of luck finding one -
they aren't common but are around.
BTW, there are a couple of owner Co2 bottles on trademe at present.
Let me know if you need any more details.As I say it is around 3 years or
more since I went through this exercise, so I don't know if the rules have
changed since. I know they are a lot tougher for scuba bottles, with visual
inspections as well as hydrotesting, but they get a harder life, and ali
bottles are prone to fatigue cracks in the neck.
Be careful with compressed gases. They are unforgiving if it goes wrong...
Geoff
Gene
"EMB" <emb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dii3ml$arv$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> <snip>
> Air Liquide will fill owner cylinders so they should be able to point
> you in the right direction. One of the engineering supplies places
> (IIRC Paykels, but I'm not certain) was selling owner CO2 cylinders a
> year or so ago, and I believe that if the valve was changed and they
> were painted correctly you could use them for Argoshield.
>
> However, the cylinders were ~$250 (+GST) which equates to about 2 years
> rental, you are responsible for your own hydro testing and refills are
> on a drop off today and collect in a couple of days time basis. Add to
> that the fact that AFAIK BOC don't fill client owned cylinders but Air
> Liquide are about 40% dearer than BOC for their Blueshield product and
> it's probably just easier to rent a cylinder from BOC (which I've done
> after going thru the whole exercise earlier this year).
>
> Bruce's owner cylinders are probably oxy-acetylene which are being
> slowly phased out by BOC.
>
> --
> EMB
The cost is almost worth it considering my infrequent use and the
convenience of having it handy when I do need it. While having to buy a 15kg
roll of flux core stainless mig wire would well offset the cost of using gas
and solid wire in the long run. By comparison I have alread used about $300
of stick electrodes this year
Gene
"Geoff M" <geo...@bigfoot.com.Delete.this.bit> wrote in message
news:16xuavk24qsqw.pa4da25ooyvz$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:27:49 +1300, Gene wrote:
>
Thanks Geoff. I understand the issues with importing and LAB numbers etc.
Just went through the same ordeal with my small high pressure air tanks.
From what I hear regulators will be the next thing to fall under their
scrutiny and all regulators will need hydro'ing and certification. This also
means that only certain models with existing LAB numbers will be allowed to
use.
Just hoping there was an outfit selling a certified/hydro'd cylinder saving
me the wait to try and buy one through T&E or trademe. In which case I might
just hire one till something suitable becomes available publically.
I did have a look at the CO2 bottle on trademe though the seller insisted on
pick-up only. I didn't quite feel like a trip to Hamilton yet. :O)
Regards,
Geoff M
Which part of the country are you in? There have been a couple for sale in
Christchurch. I bought one last year from a guy down here (CO2 - currently
on my keg) who had them from time to time. I think Airco filled them down
there. Lost his address unfortunately in a computer crash
Geoff
Gene
"Geoff M" <geo...@bigfoot.com.Delete.this.bit> wrote in message
> Which part of the country are you in? There have been a couple for sale in
> Christchurch. I bought one last year from a guy down here (CO2 - currently
> on my keg) who had them from time to time. I think Airco filled them down
> there. Lost his address unfortunately in a computer crash
> Geoff
Auckland. Bottles appear to be in high demand and as such priced to match.
:O)