Famous Gay and Lesbian New Zealanders
David Herkt
dating back to yonks. Please, if you know of any please post them. I know
fame is an odd concept in New Zealand but we'll do our best, won't we,
possums?
My start on the list.
Rev William Yate (of whom a particularly sweet note from a Maori man to him
was printed in a book of New Zealand love letters a few years back, and
about whom lesbian writer Anne Marie Jagose is writing a book )
Frances Hodgkins, painter and lover, Dorothy Richmond
Amy Bock, cross-dressing woman who married another woman
Freda Du Faur, who was the first woman to climb Mt Cook
D'arcy Cresswell, poet and writer
Ursula Bethel, poet and writer
Frank Sargeson, writer
Freda Stark, actress and dancer
Peter Wells, writer and film director
Craig Parker, actor
Chris Carter, first elected gay MP
Carmen Rupe, famous transgendered woman, nightclub owner and sometime
aspirant to Wellington Mayoralty.
Georgina Beyer, world's first transgendered MP
Peter Sinclair, closeted television and radio host
Max Cryer, closeted television and radio host
(Insert name of practically any other male TV quiz host here, including,
latterly, a National shadow minister and the head of a government
corporation)
Lew Pryme, singer and manager
Brett Sheppard and Tony Katavich, owners of Out magazine and legal
campaigners
Nigel Baumber and Ngahuia Volkerling, now Te Awekotuku, founders of Gay
Liberation
Douglas Lilburn, composer
Jack Body, composer
Edwin Carr, closeted composer
And, please, please, please, more.....
D.
--
http://www.gaynz.com
Check it out!
For news, views, social pix, up-to-the minute gossip & more!
David Herkt
"David Herkt" <dhe...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:b55a5e$257$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> I am interested in compiling a list of famous gay and lesbian New
Zealanders
> dating back to yonks. Please, if you know of any please post them. I know
> fame is an odd concept in New Zealand but we'll do our best, won't we,
> possums?
James Courage, writer
Michael Parminter, dancer
Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
D.
brazen
Charmaine Pountney
Mahinarangi Tocker
Hugh Young
said:
>I am interested in compiling a list of famous gay and lesbian New Zealanders
>dating back to yonks. Please, if you know of any please post them. I know
>fame is an odd concept in New Zealand but we'll do our best, won't we,
>possums?
>
>My start on the list.
>
>Rev William Yate (of whom a particularly sweet note from a Maori man to him
>was printed in a book of New Zealand love letters a few years back, and
>about whom lesbian writer Anne Marie Jagose is writing a book )
>Frances Hodgkins, painter and lover, Dorothy Richmond
>Amy Bock, cross-dressing woman who married another woman
>Freda Du Faur, who was the first woman to climb Mt Cook
>D'arcy Cresswell, poet and writer
>Ursula Bethel, poet and writer
Bethell
>Frank Sargeson, writer
>Freda Stark, actress and dancer
>Peter Wells, writer and film director
>Craig Parker, actor
>Chris Carter, first elected gay MP
>Carmen Rupe, famous transgendered woman, nightclub owner and sometime
>aspirant to Wellington Mayoralty.
>Georgina Beyer, world's first transgendered MP
>Peter Sinclair, closeted television and radio host
>Max Cryer, closeted television and radio host
>(Insert name of practically any other male TV quiz host here, including,
>latterly, a National shadow minister and the head of a government
>corporation)
>Lew Pryme, singer and manager
>Brett Sheppard and Tony Katavich, owners of Out magazine and legal
>campaigners
>Nigel Baumber and Ngahuia Volkerling, now Te Awekotuku, founders of Gay
>Liberation
>Douglas Lilburn, composer
>Jack Body, composer
>Edwin Carr, closeted composer
Why do you say he's closetted? And if he is, why do you spring him?
Hugh Young
said:
>
>
>"David Herkt" <dhe...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
>news:b55a5e$257$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>> I am interested in compiling a list of famous gay and lesbian New
>Zealanders
>> dating back to yonks. Please, if you know of any please post them. I know
>> fame is an odd concept in New Zealand but we'll do our best, won't we,
>> possums?
>
>James Courage, writer
>Michael Parminter, dancer
Parmenter
>Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
See http://www.queerhistory.net.nz/Chronolheads.html
David Herkt
"Hugh Young" <hu...@buGARzz.neBAGEt.nz> wrote in message
news:3e76cb71...@news.buzz.net.nz...
> >Edwin Carr, closeted composer
> Why do you say he's closetted? And if he is, why do you spring him?
Because I am really over the very closetted world of NZ 'fine' music. In the
early 21st Century the attitudes evinced when you discuss matters of
sexuality with 'our greater composers' are amazing. I do not think I break
any secrets or trusts. Just some of the bizarre double-think attitudes
whereby, for instance, one can lovingly and longly photograph the plurals of
a penis and publically exhibit them but get all coy about being out. Or
refer to the fact that 'if we speak out heterosexuals are only going to turn
on us, because they will' and other items of nonsense. They piously preserve
the closet until death and after - 'Oh, I don't think I could say that
Lilburn had men he was in love with, I think that I could only say he had
'persons''. Or 'My father is nearly 100 and if I came out he could have a
heart attack' and, hello, this from someone around 55 and respected. Um,
average gay 13 year old makes better conversation about sexuality than some
of New Zealand's greater composers.
D.
David Herkt
> See http://www.queerhistory.net.nz/Chronolheads.html
Forgot Ngaio Marsh. Samuel Butler is in the category of suspected for me,
but unproven, just like Alexander Turnbull.
D.
Hugh Young
<dav...@queernation.co.nz> said:
>
>"Hugh Young" <hu...@buGARzz.neBAGEt.nz> wrote in message
>news:3e76cb18...@news.buzz.net.nz...
>
>> See http://www.queerhistory.net.nz/Chronolheads.html
>
>
>Forgot Ngaio Marsh. Samuel Butler is in the category of suspected for me,
>but unproven,
Did you read his page?
> just like Alexander Turnbull.
Actually Ngaio Marsh is not quite proven - but very widely supposed.
Hugh Young
<dav...@queernation.co.nz> said:
>
>"Hugh Young" <hu...@buGARzz.neBAGEt.nz> wrote in message
>news:3e76cb71...@news.buzz.net.nz...
>
>> >Edwin Carr, closeted composer
>> Why do you say he's closetted? And if he is, why do you spring him?
>
>
>Because I am really over the very closetted world of NZ 'fine' music.
So this is about you? If Carr had ever said or done anything anti-gay,
I'd be with you, but so far as I know, quite the reverse.
> In the
>early 21st Century the attitudes evinced when you discuss matters of
>sexuality with 'our greater composers' are amazing. I do not think I break
>any secrets or trusts. Just some of the bizarre double-think attitudes
>whereby, for instance, one can lovingly and longly photograph the plurals of
>a penis
That's Body, not Carr.
> and publically exhibit them but get all coy about being out.
Is that Body? Are you springing Carr to punish Body, because they are
both composers?
> Um,
>average gay 13 year old makes better conversation about sexuality than some
>of New Zealand's greater composers.
So you're springing Carr because Body isn't out enough for you, and
because kids born post-HLR are more comfortable with their sexuality
then men in their 50s and 70s?
David Herkt
"Lennier" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.03.18....@TRACKING.invalid...
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:17:04 +1200, David Herkt wrote:
>
> > James Courage, writer
> > Michael Parminter, dancer
> > Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
>
>
> None of them are famous.
Depends on the level of the beholder's ignorance. James Courage was a
well-respected novelist in the 1950s- 1960s. He is still well worth a read.
He was actually banned for his gay novel in this country. Charles Brasch is
also well-known for founding and funding Landfall, New Zealand's oldest
literary magazine, as well as nuturing (and funding) some of our major
literary talents.
Your comment is nitpicking and inaccurate.
D.
David Herkt
> So this is about you? If Carr had ever said or done anything anti-gay,
> I'd be with you, but so far as I know, quite the reverse.
Sorry, Hugh, I have conversed with Ted...
D.
JJWilliams
David Herkt <dav...@queernation.co.nz> wrote in message
news:a6Dda.19567$jE3.4...@news.xtra.co.nz...
I also wondered why you called him closeted. He was certainly openly gay to
his friends as long as 60 or 70 years ago. Does he admit to being gay in his
autobiography?
J
JJWilliams
> Or 'My father is nearly 100 and if I came out he could have a
> heart attack' and, hello, this from someone around 55 and respected.
Well now you're not talking about Carr - he's more like 80 isn't he? Or is
this just a list of complaints that he might as well be guilty of?
This rant is a bit unfair isn't it? - you seem to be saying that you've
spoken to Carr and you've also spoken to composers who've said objectionable
things but you don't say which (if any) you're attributing to him. That's
gossip column stuff - just say directly what he's said that you didn't like
and skip the innuendo.
J
Mike in Cairns
"Lennier" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.03.18....@TRACKING.invalid...
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:17:04 +1200, David Herkt wrote:
>
> > James Courage, writer
> > Michael Parminter, dancer
> > Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
>
> Of these three, only Michael Parminter is celebrated.
>
> None of them are famous.
>
> Lennier
>
Mike in Cairns
Whiti Imhimerea (spell?)
David Hudson & David Halls (English, but we kinda 'owned them)
and.............Hugh Young
"JJWilliams" <j...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:b571i7$n0d$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
David Herkt
"JJWilliams" <j...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:b571i7$n0d$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> David Herkt <dav...@queernation.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:eQAda.19355$jE3.4...@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> > Or 'My father is nearly 100 and if I came out he could have a
> > heart attack' and, hello, this from someone around 55 and respected.
>
> Well now you're not talking about Carr - he's more like 80 isn't he? Or is
> this just a list of complaints that he might as well be guilty of?
No, the quotes were from a variety of our composers.
Carr is around 80 and you are related, right?
>
> This rant is a bit unfair isn't it? - you seem to be saying that you've
> spoken to Carr and you've also spoken to composers who've said
objectionable
> things but you don't say which (if any) you're attributing to him. That's
> gossip column stuff - just say directly what he's said that you didn't
like
> and skip the innuendo.
Oh, JJ, where would I be without you to keep me on the straight and
narrow....
D.
JJWilliams
> Carr is around 80 and you are related, right?
No, we're not related - he's a friend of my mother's.
J
JJWilliams
> Oh, JJ, where would I be without you to keep me on the straight and
> narrow....
But you aren't ON the straight and narrow! I'd better try harder ...
J
JohnM
<dhe...@ihug.co.nz> writes
And where is Jonathan Marshal, may I ask, famous presenter of QN,
youngest ever life-achiever, future Prime Minister of New Zealand,
author of encyclopaedias at 15, tabloid editor at 12 and witty after-
dinner speaker at 5?
Or for that matter David Herkt, poet, TV personality, newspaper editor,
bon-viveur, gossip extraordinaire with a penchant for Lego, Mecano,
Belgians and felines?
--
JohnM
Quiz Show Responses #13 (Weakest Link)
-----------------------------------------------------
Q: Which beverage is an anagram of 'eat'?
A: Hot chocolate
Own Web Site: http://www.scroll.demon.co.uk/spaver.htm
brazen
"David Herkt" <dav...@queernation.co.nz> wrote in message
news:eQAda.19355$jE3.4...@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> news:3e76cb71...@news.buzz.net.nz...
>
> > >Edwin Carr, closeted composer
> > Why do you say he's closetted? And if he is, why do you spring him?
>
>
> Because I am really over the very closetted world of NZ 'fine' music.
Gee, I hope you are not researching this for QN with its policy of *not*
outing people. Otherwise you seem to going deliberately going against it.
Gay
Kerry
wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:17:04 +1200, David Herkt wrote:
>
>> James Courage, writer
>> Michael Parminter, dancer
>> Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
>
>Of these three, only Michael Parminter is celebrated.
>
>None of them are famous.
>
>Lennier
In your juvenile world maybe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom,
wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not
love, love is not music. Music is the best.
-Frank Zappa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Jenkins
"Lennier" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>
> > Michael Parminter, dancer
> > Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
>
>
> None of them are famous.
Yes they are. I've heard of all three of them and I'm a pig ignorant philistine
:-)
Regards
Peter J
>
> Lennier
>
brazen
"Lennier" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:25:56 +1200, Peter Jenkins wrote:
>
> >> > James Courage, writer
> >> > Michael Parminter, dancer
> >> > Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
> >>
> >> Of these three, only Michael Parminter is celebrated.
> >>
> >> None of them are famous.
> >
> > Yes they are. I've heard of all three of them and I'm a pig ignorant
> > philistine
> > :-)
> > Regards
> > Peter J
>
> the person in question be therefore famous.
>
> To be famous, someone has to have accomplished an especial achievement in
> their field.
>
> For example, being the person to have broken the four minute mile - that
> is fame.
>
No, that is having a particular achievement in their field. There are plenty
of sportspeople who have achievements but are not known to the general
public, just within their sport.
Fame is a little broader than that. Musicians, actors, politicians,
journalists etc can all be famous without having a particular achievement.
And you can be famous without having any particular skills or achievements -
you see plenty of rentagob's on telly who are there just to give an opinion.
Gay
Hugh Young
said:
>On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:02:11 +1200, David Herkt wrote:
>
>>> > James Courage, writer
>>> > Michael Parminter, dancer
>>> > Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
>>>
>>> Of these three, only Michael Parminter is celebrated.
>>>
>>> None of them are famous.
>>
>> Depends on the level of the beholder's ignorance. James Courage was a
>> well-respected novelist in the 1950s- 1960s. He is still well worth a
>> read. He was actually banned for his gay novel in this country. Charles
>> Brasch is also well-known for founding and funding Landfall, New Zealand's
>> oldest literary magazine, as well as nuturing (and funding) some of our
>> major literary talents.
>
>LOL - the mere fact that their alleged status as "famous" has been
>questioned is sufficient to indicate that such a claim is drawing a long
>bow.
>
>Charles Brasch is not "well-known". If he WAS well known then the majority
>of people will have at least heard about him.
>
>James Courage MAY HAVE BEEN a "well-respected" novelist. That doesn't
>mean that he be "famous".
Who else don't you think was famous, David? Tell us everything you
don't know....
Hugh Young
said:
>On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:25:56 +1200, Peter Jenkins wrote:
>
>>> > James Courage, writer
>>> > Michael Parminter, dancer
>>> > Charles Brasch, founder of literary magazine Landfall
>>>
>>> Of these three, only Michael Parminter is celebrated.
>>>
>>> None of them are famous.
>>
>> Yes they are. I've heard of all three of them and I'm a pig ignorant
>> philistine
>> :-)
>> Regards
>> Peter J
>
>It does not follow that because one has heard of a particular person that
>the person in question be therefore famous.
>
>To be famous, someone has to have accomplished an especial achievement in
>their field.
>
>For example, being the person to have broken the four minute mile - that
>is fame.
It is? Who did that? Someone called Roger Bannister. Is he famous?
Corry Joseph
~C~
"David Herkt" <dhe...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:b55a5e$257$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Mike in Cairns
> > http://www.gaynz.com
> > Check it out!
> > For news, views, social pix, up-to-the minute gossip & more!
David , love your ability to find gossip "up to the minute" and post it on
the above website for all to see.... how long after you visit Nightshift
and jerk off a lonely former Education Minister before it appears on the
web?
Rosie
You'd better not forget Alison Laurie
Jools Joslinand jenny Rowanwere quite famous for a while there
Topp Twins
Peter Wells
Bruce Burnett
>
>