Hikoi of Hope - Christchurch Details
Patrick Dunford
In Christchurch the Hikoi of Hope will pass through the city as
follows:
Saturday 19th September
Main South Road into Christchurch passing Hornby Church at 8.30 am
Main South Road to Riccarton Road corner passing Church Corner at 9.30
am.
Riccarton Road to Mona Vale Avenue passing Riccarton Mall at 10.00 am
Mona Vale Ave to Kilmarnock Street.
Kilmarnock Street to Harper Avenue.
Harper Avenue to Nancy's Corner, passing at 10.30 am
Nancy's Corner through North Hagley Park to Armagh Street entrance,
Rolleston Ave.
Rolleston Ave to Worcester Boulevard.
Worcester Boulevard to Cathedral Square.
Event in Cathedral Square 11 am to 1:30 pm
From Cathedral Square the route north is:
Colombo Street to Edgeware Road
Edgeware Road to Cranford Street.
Cranford Street to Corner of Main North Road passing at approximately
3.30 pm (?)
Main North Road north.
Local contacts:
Turi Hollis
chap...@regy.canterbury.ac.nz
Stephen Warnes
kho...@voyager.co.nz
--------------------------------------------------
Patrick Dunford, Christchurch, NZ
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/3405/
-----------------------------------------------------
ID Cards & Systems and Privacy Issues -
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/9789/privacy/
**************************************************
Christianity Explained - http://www.christ.gen.nz/
Hamster
all my rotten eggs so I can throw them at them.
RELEGION SUCKS
Patrick Dunford wrote in message <35f3b6d0...@news.caverock.co.nz>...
Michael Tritt
>When are these Regilous freaks comming through Timaru. I 'll have to save
up
>all my rotten eggs so I can throw them at them.
>
>RELEGION SUCKS
Well, I've never had anything to do with religious organisations, and yet I
participated in the march through Dunedin yesterday afternoon. I think you
will find that many New Zealanders, be they religious or not are united in
their opposition to the New Right and are hence supporting the Hikoi.
In any case you should try to be a little more open minded in your attitude
towards people whose beliefs differ from your own.
--
Michael Tritt
MCom postgraduate, University of Otago
Secretary, Deep South Greens.
http://www.greens.org.nz
M E Wood
>
> When are these Regilous freaks comming through Timaru. I 'll have to save up
> all my rotten eggs so I can throw them at them.
>
> RELEGION SUCKS
>
Hamster may like to view the details about the religious nuts on
http://www.hikoi.anglican.org.nz/
where he will find all his queries answered.
All are welcome to join the Hikoi.
--
"What can be done with fewer assumptions is done in vain with more."
William of Occam 1285-1347.
Br...@whanganui.ac.nz
> up
> >all my rotten eggs so I can throw them at them.
> >
> >RELEGION SUCKS
>
> participated in the march through Dunedin yesterday afternoon. I think you
> will find that many New Zealanders, be they religious or not are united in
> their opposition to the New Right and are hence supporting the Hikoi.
> In any case you should try to be a little more open minded in your attitude
> towards people whose beliefs differ from your own.
>
> --
> Michael Tritt
> MCom postgraduate, University of Otago
> Secretary, Deep South Greens.
> http://www.greens.org.nz
>
Yes, I believe that we have to form coalitions across the board to stop the
"new" right -neo-liberal onslaught. (Actually the new right is not any
different to the old right in it’s economic policy in that it advances the
goals of the powerful, neo-liberals are virtually identical to neo-
conservatives, and the "onslaught" is only a media perception, not reality -
at least as identified by those few polls that deal with the subject.)
One can identify with the Hikoi’s goals on moral-ethical grounds and differ on
metaphysical or existential grounds. It is the moral-ethical concerns of the
plunder of the powerless (the poor - meaning many "middle-class" as well ,
students, etc.) that most are concerned about - as well as the pragmatic
results of making a better society for all. One can be a Muslim. Agnostic or
Atheist and still believe in the same Christian values upheld by the local
Anglican church, since these values are apparently common to all.
--
Brit
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Steve Wrathall
>
> One can identify with the Hikoi’s goals on moral-ethical grounds and differ on
> metaphysical or existential grounds. It is the moral-ethical concerns of the
> plunder of the powerless (the poor - meaning many "middle-class" as well ,
> students, etc.)
The only 'plunder' that is going on is by the special interest groups who
demand higher and higher costs be loaded onto consumers and taxpayers in
order to featherbed their particular nest. Do you really think having 900 000
adult Nzers on benefits is sustainable?
Quite frankly, if these hikoi participants really believe in a caring sharing
society they should:
a) offer to cut the hedge of every taxpayer they pass en route.
b) sign up as organ donars.
mrnj
>Do you really think having 900 000
> adult Nzers on benefits is sustainable?
The Hikoi organisers and their Alliance fellow-bus passengers think so,
and want much higher benefit rates paid to boot, the extra money being
plundered from working people.
What happens when everyone is on the Universal Basic Income and nobody is
working? Surely it will all collapse? Or is that when the Social Credit
arm of the Alliance will take over, printing the money?
> Quite frankly, if these hikoi participants really believe in a caring sharing
> society they should:
> a) offer to cut the hedge of every taxpayer they pass en route.
A bit hard to do from their moving buses and mini-vans. They only walk
for a short daily photo opportunity. Maybe you could get them to cut your
hedge, but given your sceptical posts I suspect they would burn it down
before they would trim it.
> b) sign up as organ donars.
Whatever happened to the organ donor scheme on drivers' licences? It
seems not to have got off the ground, even though my licence and hundreds
of thousands of other peoples' say we are donors,.
Dave Maguire
>
> RELEGION SUCKS
Me think you are branding the message as offensive because the messanger
is offensive. There is nothing wrong with religion as long as people
don't push there values onto other
D
Br...@whanganui.ac.nz
Steve Wrathall <wrat...@fri.cri.nz> wrote:
> Br...@whanganui.ac.nz wrote:
> >
> > One can identify with the Hikoi’s goals on moral-ethical grounds and differ
on
> > metaphysical or existential grounds. It is the moral-ethical concerns of the
> > plunder of the powerless (the poor - meaning many "middle-class" as well ,
> > students, etc.)
>
> The only 'plunder' that is going on is by the special interest groups who
> demand higher and higher costs be loaded onto consumers and taxpayers in
> order to featherbed their particular nest.
Who are you kidding - the taxpayers (meaning the upper level ones which I
assume that you are or have fantasies of becoming - perhaps in organ sales?)
have been having a field day with excessive tax give-backs by National/Rodger-
Labour, while the middle class and porr have been hit by the regressive GST.
The real "special interests" groups are the corporates, TNC’s, and Business
Roundtable who have milked the poor beyond recognition in a class struggle
that would make Stalin blush.
Do you really think having 900 000
> adult Nzers on benefits is sustainable?
Of course not, an aim towards full employment is. It is possible. It happened
before in NZ (albeit with big mistakes, but returning to nineteenth century
market economics has certainly made things predictably much worst.)
>
> Quite frankly, if these hikoi participants really believe in a caring sharing
> society they should:
> a) offer to cut the hedge of every taxpayer they pass en route.
> b) sign up as organ donars.
>
> www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/1129
>
Massey University professor Srikanta Chatterjee has found four out of five
households had a smaller share of the country's total income than they had in
1983. Alliance leader Jim Anderton says there is growing international
evidence that more equal economies out-perform more unequal economies.
"Trickle-down economics don't work. As far back as 1994 the Economist
magazine reported that countries with wider inequality have more ill-health,
social stress and crime. Those factors all hinder economic success. So even
if your objective is solely economic success in terms of growth and
productivity, more inequality defeats that objective. "The really disturbing
factor in the Massey University study is that it shows so many people are
going backwards. Eighty per cent of New Zealanders are getting a smaller
share of the cake. "The Government claims that the cake is growing, but in
80s and 90s the New Zealand economy has under-performed the average of
developed countries. "If it wants to start closing the gap between rich and
poor, the Government should look at the number of people that it is forcing
into dependency. In 1984 there were 79,775 people receiving unemployment,
sickness and invalids benefits. By March this year the total had climbed to
232,675 people.
Enkidu
>
>The Hikoi organisers and their Alliance fellow-bus
>passengers think so, and want much higher benefit
>rates paid to boot, the extra money being
>plundered from working people.
>
way". No assumptions, apart from the one that things
are falling apart.
Cliff
Patrick Dunford
12:20:13 -0700 in nz.politics:<35FD6C...@fri.cri.nz> didst write unto
us...
>The only 'plunder' that is going on is by the special interest groups who
>demand higher and higher costs be loaded onto consumers and taxpayers in
>order to featherbed their particular nest. Do you really think having 900 000
>adult Nzers on benefits is sustainable?
Do you think having 18% of New Zealanders living below the poverty line
is sustainable? A 22% increase in foodbank use this year is sustainable
every year? And don't go on about beneficiaries because some people below
the poverty line are working and that's a fact, the Employment Contracts
Act has driven wages down enough to see to that.
--
Patrick Dunford, Christchurch, NZ
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/3405/
-----------------------------------------------------
HIKOI OF HOPE: WALKING FOR A CHANGE - SEPTEMBER 1998
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/3405/hikoi/
Official site http://www.hikoi.anglican.org.nz/
Steve Wrathall
an increase in benefit levels in the first sentence.
Steve Wrathall
>
> Who are you kidding - the taxpayers (meaning the upper level ones which I
> assume that you are or have fantasies of becoming - perhaps in organ sales?)
> have been having a field day with excessive tax give-backs by National/Rodger-
> Labour, while the middle class and porr have been hit by the regressive GST.
GST is not regressive. It is flat, as it should be.
> Do you really think having 900 000
> > adult Nzers on benefits is sustainable?
>
> Of course not, an aim towards full employment is. It is possible. It happened
> before in NZ (albeit with big mistakes,
When? in the '60s? when govt only took 25% of GDP, instead of the 35% it does
now?
> > Quite frankly, if these hikoi participants really believe in a caring sharing
> > society they should:
> > a) offer to cut the hedge of every taxpayer they pass en route.
> > b) sign up as organ donars.
> >
> > www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/1129
> >
>
> Massey University professor Srikanta Chatterjee has found four out of five
> households had a smaller share of the country's total income than they had in
> 1983.
But the pie is much bigger. Therefore the vast majority of this "worse off
80%" are nonetheless richer.
>Alliance leader Jim Anderton says there is growing international
> evidence that more equal economies out-perform more unequal economies.
Yeah, just look how North Korea and Cuba are booming.
> "Trickle-down economics don't work. As far back as 1994 the Economist
> magazine reported that countries with wider inequality have more ill-health,
> social stress and crime. Those factors all hinder economic success. So even
> if your objective is solely economic success in terms of growth and
> productivity, more inequality defeats that objective. "The really disturbing
> factor in the Massey University study is that it shows so many people are
> going backwards. Eighty per cent of New Zealanders are getting a smaller
> share of the cake. "The Government claims that the cake is growing, but in
> 80s and 90s the New Zealand economy has under-performed the average of
> developed countries.
As well as the '70s. But our under-performance has precisely matched the
ballooning of the size of the govt tax-take from 25% to 35% of GDP.
>"If it wants to start closing the gap between rich and
> poor, the Government should look at the number of people that it is forcing
> into dependency.
If the "poor" want to get richer, they should learn how to create wealth. (See
Holmes last night?) ie. Produce something (a good or a service) that someone
else is willing to pay money for. Rather than 'hikoiing' across the
countryside demanding that ever increasing amounts of earners' dollars be
forcibly transferred to their pockets.
>In 1984 there were 79,775 people receiving unemployment,
> sickness and invalids benefits. By March this year the total had climbed to
> 232,675 people.m
Unsurprising, when you consider that a family with 2 kids can be on $450 p.w.
plus earnings under the table. While muggins family next door who have
responsibly delayed having a family until they can support them have to hand
over $8000 per year to scumbag politicians who want to buy the votes of family
#1.
mj
So did the banners being carried by the 20 or so Alliance activists
/sorry, Hikoiers I yelled at to "get a job" when they shuffled through
Newmarket ahead of their bus on Sunday.
Patrick Dunford
1998 08:12:41 -0700 in nz.politics:<35FE83...@fri.cri.nz> didst write
unto us...
>Enkidu wrote:
>>
>> mrnj wrote
>> >
>> >The Hikoi organisers and their Alliance fellow-bus
>> >passengers think so, and want much higher benefit
>> >rates paid to boot, the extra money being
>> >plundered from working people.
>> >
>> No, the slogan of the Hikoi is "There must be a better
>> way". No assumptions, apart from the one that things
>> are falling apart.
>>
>> CliffWrong. The hikoi backgrounder posted by Patrick Dunford on Sunday. Called for
>an increase in benefit levels in the first sentence.
>
Do you consider that someone on an invalids benefit is undeserving of
receiving such support? Whitewash as you may, the fact is that the
Community Wage and other benefits have been cut and sickness benefits
have been cut and the dole has been cut for students and the fact is that
with high unemployment a number of people will in fact remain on these
benefits for a period of time. I suppose your line is that you want them
abolished altogether, people living on the streets in cardboard boxes,
etc.
Patrick Dunford
unto us...
>Br...@whanganui.ac.nz wrote:
>
>>
>> Who are you kidding - the taxpayers (meaning the upper level ones which I
>> assume that you are or have fantasies of becoming - perhaps in organ sales?)
>> have been having a field day with excessive tax give-backs by National/Rodger-
>> Labour, while the middle class and porr have been hit by the regressive GST.
>
>GST is not regressive. It is flat, as it should be.
>
>
>> Do you really think having 900 000
>> > adult Nzers on benefits is sustainable?
>>
>> Of course not, an aim towards full employment is. It is possible. It happened
>> before in NZ (albeit with big mistakes,
>
>When? in the '60s? when govt only took 25% of GDP, instead of the 35% it does
>now?
Before mass unemployment came along and wiped out people's livelihoods
and pushed the welfare bills through the roof...
>> Massey University professor Srikanta Chatterjee has found four out of five
>> households had a smaller share of the country's total income than they had in
>> 1983.
>
>But the pie is much bigger. Therefore the vast majority of this "worse off
>80%" are nonetheless richer.
Did Mr C use percentages or absolute inflation-adjusted $$$ I wonder?
>>In 1984 there were 79,775 people receiving unemployment,
>> sickness and invalids benefits. By March this year the total had climbed to
>> 232,675 people.m
>Unsurprising, when you consider that a family with 2 kids can be on $450 p.w.
>plus earnings under the table.
Explain how you reach this figure. The dole is slightly more than the
minimum wage for this figure.
Under the table, of course, can be done by anyone working or not.
>While muggins family next door who have
>responsibly delayed having a family until they can support them have to hand
>over $8000 per year to scumbag politicians who want to buy the votes of family #1
Has it occurred to you that family #1 may have been working when the
primary earner was laid off as his employers decided to shift production
to China, and supporting themselves and paying taxes etc etc etc.
Or family #1 might be a solo parent who was incapacitated after a work
accident and now receives the invalid's benefit together with family
support etc.
Or family #1 might be a solo father whose wife died in a road accident
and quit his job to bring up his sons. I have an uncle who was in this
position. He now has his own business but for a while there he was on the
DPB.
Eric Stevens
wrote:
>Hamster wrote:
>>
>> When are these Regilous freaks comming through Timaru. I 'll have to save up
>> all my rotten eggs so I can throw them at them.
>>
>> RELEGION SUCKS
>>
>.
>
>Hamster may like to view the details about the religious nuts on
>http://www.hikoi.anglican.org.nz/
>where he will find all his queries answered.
>All are welcome to join the Hikoi.
Not all necessary details are given. There is no mention of the bus
timetables.
Eric Stevens
Chaos is found in the greatest abundance wherever order is being
sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organised.
-: Ly Tin Wheedle
Patrick Dunford
09:44:00 GMT in nz.politics:<362c5dd5....@news.iprolink.co.nz>
didst write unto us...
>On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:21:49 +1200, M E Wood <mew...@caverock.co.nz>
>wrote:
>
>>Hamster wrote:
>>>
>>> When are these Regilous freaks comming through Timaru. I 'll have to save up
>>> all my rotten eggs so I can throw them at them.
>>>
>>> RELEGION SUCKS
>>>
>>.
>>
>>Hamster may like to view the details about the religious nuts on
>>http://www.hikoi.anglican.org.nz/
>>where he will find all his queries answered.
>>All are welcome to join the Hikoi.
>
>Not all necessary details are given. There is no mention of the bus
>timetables.
There are no buses.
With all respect I think you should stop putting these lies about now.
--
Patrick Dunford, Christ Church, NZ
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/3405/
-----------------------------------------------------
Dave Joll
>Yea verily Eric Stevens (stev...@iprolink.co.nz) on Thu, 08 Oct 1998
>>Not all necessary details are given. There is no mention of the bus
>>timetables.
>There are no buses.
Eric, did you miss my post about the Hikoi? When travelling to Dunedin
last month I kept an eye out for buses etc. and observed NOT ONE
BUS near where the hikoi was at that point (being approximately
midway between Woodlands and Dacre, about as far away from
a photo opportunity as you can get in Southland!) There were a couple
of support vehicles (utes with canopies IIRC) which I assume would
have been in case of medical emergency or something - presumably
somebody on the Hikoi would have had a cellphone as well.
I know of a person who walked the entire distance between
Invercargill and Balclutha; I have mentioned to a couple of people
that "rumours over the Internet" had the Hikoi bussing whenever
they were out of sight of the cameras and they were quite affronted
that such rumours existed.
BTW, if looking for a dictionary definition of the word "Hikoi"
perhaps it may be more useful to find one published *after* 1975?
Regards
Dave Joll
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~jollian/ .... New owner of a TT 600
trail bike... STOP PRESS: FINALLY GOING!....
"When it looks like there are two sides to an issue, there are probably
at least three" - Mark Gruenwald .... Yay! Got it down to four lines!
Eric Stevens
>Yes, I believe that we have to form coalitions across the board to stop the
>"new" right -neo-liberal onslaught.
How can we form an 'across the board' coalition which excludes those
who you describe as "new" right neo-liberal?. By definition an across
the board coalition *must* include everybody. Such a coalition will
stop any particular group only as long as that group is in a minority.
Eric Stevens
wrote:
>mrnj wrote
>>
>>The Hikoi organisers and their Alliance fellow-bus
>>passengers think so, and want much higher benefit
>>rates paid to boot, the extra money being
>>plundered from working people.
>>
>No, the slogan of the Hikoi is "There must be a better
>way". No assumptions, apart from the one that things
>are falling apart.
Its funny that. Sir Roger Douglas wrote a book more than 20 years ago
entitled "There has to be a better way" and yet his ideas are anathema
to most of those on the so-called 'hikoi'.
Eric Stevens
(Patrick Dunford) wrote:
>Yea verily Steve Wrathall (Stephen....@fri.cri.nz) on Tue, 15 Sep
>1998 08:12:41 -0700 in nz.politics:<35FE83...@fri.cri.nz> didst write
>unto us...
>
>>Enkidu wrote:
>>>
>>> mrnj wrote
>>> >
>>> >The Hikoi organisers and their Alliance fellow-bus
>>> >passengers think so, and want much higher benefit
>>> >rates paid to boot, the extra money being
>>> >plundered from working people.
>>> >
>>> No, the slogan of the Hikoi is "There must be a better
>>> way". No assumptions, apart from the one that things
>>> are falling apart.
>>>
>>> CliffWrong. The hikoi backgrounder posted by Patrick Dunford on Sunday. Called for
>>an increase in benefit levels in the first sentence.
>>
>
>Do you consider that someone on an invalids benefit is undeserving of
>receiving such support? Whitewash as you may, the fact is that the
>Community Wage and other benefits have been cut and sickness benefits
>have been cut and the dole has been cut for students and the fact is that
>with high unemployment a number of people will in fact remain on these
>benefits for a period of time. I suppose your line is that you want them
>abolished altogether, people living on the streets in cardboard boxes,
>etc.
Are you in fact saying that the hikoi is not calling for a better way
but merely wanting benefit increases?
Eric Stevens
(Patrick Dunford) wrote:
>Yea verily Eric Stevens (stev...@iprolink.co.nz) on Thu, 08 Oct 1998
>09:44:00 GMT in nz.politics:<362c5dd5....@news.iprolink.co.nz>
>didst write unto us...
>
>>On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:21:49 +1200, M E Wood <mew...@caverock.co.nz>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Hamster wrote:
>>>>
>>>> When are these Regilous freaks comming through Timaru. I 'll have to save up
>>>> all my rotten eggs so I can throw them at them.
>>>>
>>>> RELEGION SUCKS
>>>>
>>>.
>>>
>>>Hamster may like to view the details about the religious nuts on
>>>http://www.hikoi.anglican.org.nz/
>>>where he will find all his queries answered.
>>>All are welcome to join the Hikoi.
>>
>>Not all necessary details are given. There is no mention of the bus
>>timetables.
>
>There are no buses.
>
>With all respect I think you should stop putting these lies about now.
The Herald had photographs of the loaded buses in Northland.
Eric Stevens
wrote:
>Patrick Dunford wrote in message ...
>
>>Yea verily Eric Stevens (stev...@iprolink.co.nz) on Thu, 08 Oct 1998
>
>>>Not all necessary details are given. There is no mention of the bus
>>>timetables.
>
>>There are no buses.
>
>Eric, did you miss my post about the Hikoi? When travelling to Dunedin
>last month I kept an eye out for buses etc. and observed NOT ONE
>BUS near where the hikoi was at that point (being approximately
>midway between Woodlands and Dacre, about as far away from
>a photo opportunity as you can get in Southland!) There were a couple
>of support vehicles (utes with canopies IIRC) which I assume would
>have been in case of medical emergency or something - presumably
>somebody on the Hikoi would have had a cellphone as well.
As I have just replied to patrick Dunford, the Heral had photographs
of buses.
>
>I know of a person who walked the entire distance between
>Invercargill and Balclutha; I have mentioned to a couple of people
>that "rumours over the Internet" had the Hikoi bussing whenever
>they were out of sight of the cameras and they were quite affronted
>that such rumours existed.
>
>BTW, if looking for a dictionary definition of the word "Hikoi"
>perhaps it may be more useful to find one published *after* 1975?
Why? Is Maori such a mutable language that it requires a new
dictionary every year or so?
Patrick Dunford
02:45:57 GMT in nz.politics:<363e31cb....@news.iprolink.co.nz>
didst write unto us...
>On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:25:34 +1200, "Enkidu" <Cliff...@vuw.ac.nz>
>wrote:
>
>>mrnj wrote
>>>
>>>The Hikoi organisers and their Alliance fellow-bus
>>>passengers think so, and want much higher benefit
>>>rates paid to boot, the extra money being
>>>plundered from working people.
>>>
>>No, the slogan of the Hikoi is "There must be a better
>>way". No assumptions, apart from the one that things
>>are falling apart.
>
>Its funny that. Sir Roger Douglas wrote a book more than 20 years ago
>entitled "There has to be a better way" and yet his ideas are anathema
>to most of those on the so-called 'hikoi'.
That's because Douglas's theories when they were implemented by
successive Governments, made the NZ situation worse and it hasn't
improved.
Douglas and Act are ideologues, and ideology is just so much hot air.
Patrick Dunford
didst write unto us...
>On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:41:53 +1200, patrick...@hotmail.com
>(Patrick Dunford) wrote:
>
>>Yea verily Steve Wrathall (Stephen....@fri.cri.nz) on Tue, 15 Sep
>>1998 08:12:41 -0700 in nz.politics:<35FE83...@fri.cri.nz> didst write
>>unto us...
>>
>>>Enkidu wrote:
>>>>
>>>> mrnj wrote
>>>> >
>>>> >The Hikoi organisers and their Alliance fellow-bus
>>>> >passengers think so, and want much higher benefit
>>>> >rates paid to boot, the extra money being
>>>> >plundered from working people.
>>>> >
>>>> No, the slogan of the Hikoi is "There must be a better
>>>> way". No assumptions, apart from the one that things
>>>> are falling apart.
>>>>
>>>> CliffWrong. The hikoi backgrounder posted by Patrick Dunford on Sunday. Called for
>>>an increase in benefit levels in the first sentence.
>>>
>>
>>Do you consider that someone on an invalids benefit is undeserving of
>>receiving such support? Whitewash as you may, the fact is that the
>>Community Wage and other benefits have been cut and sickness benefits
>>have been cut and the dole has been cut for students and the fact is that
>>with high unemployment a number of people will in fact remain on these
>>benefits for a period of time. I suppose your line is that you want them
>>abolished altogether, people living on the streets in cardboard boxes,
>>etc.
>
>Are you in fact saying that the hikoi is not calling for a better way
>but merely wanting benefit increases?
The hikoi is calling for a better way and part of that way is for the
Government to stop attacking superannuitants and beneficiaries as they
and only they have done in the last 8 years. Why stop at beneficiaries?
working people have had their wages slashed because of Government policy.
Patrick Dunford
didst write unto us...
>On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:06:54 +1300, "Dave Joll" <jol...@es.co.nz>
>wrote:
>
>>Patrick Dunford wrote in message ...
>>
>>>Yea verily Eric Stevens (stev...@iprolink.co.nz) on Thu, 08 Oct 1998
>>
>>>>Not all necessary details are given. There is no mention of the bus
>>>>timetables.
>>
>>>There are no buses.
>>
>>Eric, did you miss my post about the Hikoi? When travelling to Dunedin
>>last month I kept an eye out for buses etc. and observed NOT ONE
>>BUS near where the hikoi was at that point (being approximately
>>midway between Woodlands and Dacre, about as far away from
>>a photo opportunity as you can get in Southland!) There were a couple
>>of support vehicles (utes with canopies IIRC) which I assume would
>>have been in case of medical emergency or something - presumably
>>somebody on the Hikoi would have had a cellphone as well.
>
>As I have just replied to patrick Dunford, the Heral had photographs
>of buses.
Buses or minibuses/vans? There were some vans used as support vehicles,
this does not mean they simply drove people around, the people did
actually walk. What buses might you be referring to?
>>I know of a person who walked the entire distance between
>>Invercargill and Balclutha; I have mentioned to a couple of people
>>that "rumours over the Internet" had the Hikoi bussing whenever
>>they were out of sight of the cameras and they were quite affronted
>>that such rumours existed.
>>
>>BTW, if looking for a dictionary definition of the word "Hikoi"
>>perhaps it may be more useful to find one published *after* 1975?
>
>Why? Is Maori such a mutable language that it requires a new
>dictionary every year or so?
All languages evolve. Are you using English dictoniaries printed before
1975?
Patrick Dunford
didst write unto us...
>On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:53:20 +1300, patrick...@hotmail.com
>(Patrick Dunford) wrote:
>
>>Yea verily Eric Stevens (stev...@iprolink.co.nz) on Thu, 08 Oct 1998
>>09:44:00 GMT in nz.politics:<362c5dd5....@news.iprolink.co.nz>
>>didst write unto us...
>>
>>>On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:21:49 +1200, M E Wood <mew...@caverock.co.nz>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hamster wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> When are these Regilous freaks comming through Timaru. I 'll have to save up
>>>>> all my rotten eggs so I can throw them at them.
>>>>>
>>>>> RELEGION SUCKS
>>>>>
>>>>.
>>>>
>>>>Hamster may like to view the details about the religious nuts on
>>>>http://www.hikoi.anglican.org.nz/
>>>>where he will find all his queries answered.
>>>>All are welcome to join the Hikoi.
>>>
>>>Not all necessary details are given. There is no mention of the bus
>>>timetables.
>>
>>There are no buses.
>>
>>With all respect I think you should stop putting these lies about now.
>
>The Herald had photographs of the loaded buses in Northland.
This is so ambiguous as to be laughable.
Loaded with what? Baggage?
Going where? From Auckland up to Cape Reinga to the start of the Hikoi?
Yes I know an uninformed gossip columnist in the Herald has been
propagating this nonsense.
Eric Stevens
wrote:
>Eric Stevens wrote in message <36738ce3....@news.iprolink.co.nz>...
>
>>On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:06:54 +1300, "Dave Joll" <jol...@es.co.nz>
>
>>>BTW, if looking for a dictionary definition of the word "Hikoi"
>>>perhaps it may be more useful to find one published *after* 1975?
>
>>Why? Is Maori such a mutable language that it requires a new
>>dictionary every year or so?
>
>Why not? English does to the same extent; both are living
>languages and change with the times. AFAIK the word
>"hikoi" came into prominence with the land march of that year.
>
It might have come into prominence in 1975 but it did not then come
into existence.
Bruce Biggs in his short 1990 'English.Maori/Maori.English' dictionary
(really only a word list) gives 'Hiikoi: step, stride'. (the 'ii' in
hikoi is merely a different phonetic representation).
Is there a different definition given by any modern reputable maori
dictionary?
Eric Stevens
(Patrick Dunford) wrote:
>>The Herald had photographs of the loaded buses in Northland.
>
>This is so ambiguous as to be laughable.
>
>Loaded with what? Baggage?
People
>
>Going where? From Auckland up to Cape Reinga to the start of the Hikoi?
En route to the next stop.
>
>Yes I know an uninformed gossip columnist in the Herald has been
>propagating this nonsense.
You should protest about such a blatant misrepresentation of the
facts.
Eric Stevens
(Patrick Dunford) wrote:
>>>Do you consider that someone on an invalids benefit is undeserving of
>>>receiving such support? Whitewash as you may, the fact is that the
>>>Community Wage and other benefits have been cut and sickness benefits
>>>have been cut and the dole has been cut for students and the fact is that
>>>with high unemployment a number of people will in fact remain on these
>>>benefits for a period of time. I suppose your line is that you want them
>>>abolished altogether, people living on the streets in cardboard boxes,
>>>etc.
>>
>>Are you in fact saying that the hikoi is not calling for a better way
>>but merely wanting benefit increases?
>
>The hikoi is calling for a better way and part of that way is for the
>Government to stop attacking superannuitants and beneficiaries as they
>and only they have done in the last 8 years. Why stop at beneficiaries?
>working people have had their wages slashed because of Government policy.
Yet, as someone has very recently pointed out on this ng, for a number
of years wages have been rising faster than inflation.
Patrick Fitzgerald
>languages and change with the times. AFAIK the word
>"hikoi" came into prominence with the land march of that year.
It was a Public Relation disaster calling it a Hikoi which means
nothing to most people. They probably thought it was an exclusively
maori thingie and did not realise it was for all New Zealanders
Patrick
Dave Joll
>On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:06:54 +1300, "Dave Joll" <jol...@es.co.nz>
>>BTW, if looking for a dictionary definition of the word "Hikoi"
>>perhaps it may be more useful to find one published *after* 1975?
>Why? Is Maori such a mutable language that it requires a new
>dictionary every year or so?
Why not? English does to the same extent; both are living
languages and change with the times. AFAIK the word
"hikoi" came into prominence with the land march of that year.
Regards
Dave Joll
Patrick Dunford
write unto us...
>On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:55:09 +1300, patrick...@hotmail.com
>(Patrick Dunford) wrote:
>
>>>The Herald had photographs of the loaded buses in Northland.
>>
>>This is so ambiguous as to be laughable.
>>
>>Loaded with what? Baggage?
>
>People
>>
>>Going where? From Auckland up to Cape Reinga to the start of the Hikoi?
>
>En route to the next stop.
Which was?
Could have been SUPPORTERS.
>>Yes I know an uninformed gossip columnist in the Herald has been
>>propagating this nonsense.
>
>You should protest about such a blatant misrepresentation of the
>facts.
If you are implying, that buses were used to cover some sections that
were not walked, you are wholly wrong.
Patrick Dunford
write unto us...
>On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:55:04 +1300, patrick...@hotmail.com
>(Patrick Dunford) wrote:
>
>>>>Do you consider that someone on an invalids benefit is undeserving of
>>>>receiving such support? Whitewash as you may, the fact is that the
>>>>Community Wage and other benefits have been cut and sickness benefits
>>>>have been cut and the dole has been cut for students and the fact is that
>>>>with high unemployment a number of people will in fact remain on these
>>>>benefits for a period of time. I suppose your line is that you want them
>>>>abolished altogether, people living on the streets in cardboard boxes,
>>>>etc.
>>>
>>>Are you in fact saying that the hikoi is not calling for a better way
>>>but merely wanting benefit increases?
>>
>>The hikoi is calling for a better way and part of that way is for the
>>Government to stop attacking superannuitants and beneficiaries as they
>>and only they have done in the last 8 years. Why stop at beneficiaries?
>>working people have had their wages slashed because of Government policy.
>
>Yet, as someone has very recently pointed out on this ng, for a number
>of years wages have been rising faster than inflation.
AVERAGE wages.
Let's suppose you are of limited mathematical ability, then I will point
out to you how averages (don't) work.
Let's say Joe earns $40,000 per year. Under the ECA, Joe's wages go up to
$60,000 per year.
John, on the other hand, used to earn $24,000 per year. Under the ECA his
wages dropped to $20,000 per year.
The average of these two people before the ECA was $32,000. It is now
$40,000. So the average has risen, but in reality what has happened is
that some people's wages have risen and others have fallen.
It is well known that the ECA has delivered wage cuts to numerous people
at the lower-paid end of the spectrum, and community ages spend more and
more of their time dealing with working people as well as beneficiaries,
although State rent rises could also be connected with this.