War Profiteers: Asian "Slaves" Build US Bases In Iraq
Janice
War Profiteers
David Phinney is a journalist and broadcaster based in Washington, DC,
whose work has appeared in The Los Angeles Times, New York Times and on
ABC and PBS. He can be contacted at: phinne...@yahoo.com.
Jing Soliman left his family in the Philippines for what sounded like a
sure thing--a job as a warehouse worker at Camp Anaconda in Iraq. His
new employer, Prime Projects International (PPI) of Dubai, is a major,
but low-profile, subcontractor to Halliburton's multi-billion-dollar
deal with the Pentagon to provide support services to U.S. forces.
But Soliman wouldn't be making anything near the salaries-- starting
$80,000 a year and often topping $100,000-- that Halliburton's
engineering and construction unit, Kellogg, Brown & Root (KBR) pays to
the truck drivers, construction workers, office workers, and other
laborers it recruits from the United States. Instead, the 35-year-old
father of two anticipated $615 a month - including overtime. For a
40-hour work week, that would be just over $3 an hour. But for the
12-hour day, seven-day week that Soliman says was standard for him and
many contractor employees in Iraq, he actually earned $1.56 an hour.
Soliman planned to send most of his $7,380 annual pay home to his
family in the Philippines, where the combined unemployment and
underemployment rate tops 28 percent. The average annual income in
Manila is $4,384, and the World Bank estimates that nearly half of the
nation's 84 million people live on less than $2 a day.
"I am an ordinary man," said Soliman during a recent telephone
interview from his home in Quezon City near Manila. "It was good
money."
His ambitions, like many U.S. civilians working in Iraq, were modest:
"I wanted to save up, buy a house and provide for my family," he
says.
That simple dream drives tens of thousands of low-wage workers like
Soliman to travel to Iraq from more than three dozen countries. They
are lured by jobs with companies working on projects led by Halliburton
and other major U.S.-funded contractors hired to provide support
services to the military and reconstruction efforts.
Called "third country nationals" (TCN) in contractor's parlance,
these laborers hail largely from impoverished Asian countries such as
the Philippines, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, and Pakistan, as
well as from Turkey and countries in the Middle East. Once in Iraq,
TCNs earn monthly salaries between $200 to $1,000 as truck drivers,
construction workers, carpenters, warehousemen, laundry workers, cooks,
accountants, beauticians, and similar blue-collar jobs.
Invisible Army of Cheap Labor
Tens of thousands of such TNC laborers have helped set new records for
the largest civilian workforce ever hired in support of a U.S. war.
They are employed through complex layers of companies working in Iraq.
At the top of the pyramid-shaped system is the U.S. government which
assigned over $24 billion in contracts over the last two years. Just
below that layer are the prime contractors like Halliburton and
Bechtel. Below them are dozens of smaller subcontracting companies--
largely based in the Middle East --including PPI, First Kuwaiti Trading
& Contracting and Alargan Trading of Kuwait, Gulf Catering, Saudi
Trading & Construction Company of Saudi Arabia. Such companies, which
recruit and employ the bulk of the foreign workers in Iraq, have
experienced explosive growth since the invasion of Iraq by providing
labor and services to the more high-profile prime contractors.
This layered system not only cuts costs for the prime contractors, but
also creates an untraceable trail of contracts that clouds the
liability of companies and hinders comprehensive oversight by U.S.
contract auditors. In April, the Government Accountability Office, an
investigative arm of the U.S. Congress concluded that it is impossible
to accurately estimate the total number of U.S. or foreign nationals
working in Iraq.
The GAO's investigation was prompted by concerns in Congress about
insurance costs that all U.S.-funded contractors and subcontractors in
are obligated by law to carry for their workers--costs which are then
passed on to the government.
"It is difficult to aggregate reliable data," said the GAO report,
"due in part to the large number of contractors and the multiple
levels of subcontractors performing work in Iraq."
The menial wages paid to TCNs working for the regional contractors may
be the most significant factor in the Pentagon's argument that
outsourcing military support is far more cost-efficient for the U.S.
taxpayer than using its own troops to maintain camps and feed its
ranks.
But there is also a human cost to this savings. Numerous former
American contractors returning home say they were shocked at conditions
faced by this mostly invisible, but indispensable army of low-paid
workers. TCNs frequently sleep in crowded trailers and wait outside in
line in 100 degree plus heat to eat "slop." Many are said to lack
adequate medical care and put in hard labor seven days a week, 10 hours
or more a day, for little or no overtime pay. Few receive proper
workplace safety equipment or adequate protection from incoming mortars
and rockets. When frequent gunfire, rockets and mortar shell from the
ongoing conflict hits the sprawling military camps, American
contractors slip on helmets and bulletproof vests, but TCNs are
frequently shielded only by the shirts on their backs and the flimsy
trailers they sleep in.
Adding to these dangers and hardships, some TCNs complain publicly
about not being paid the wages they expected. Others say their
employers use "bait-and-switch" tactics: recruiting them for jobs
in Kuwait or other Middle Eastern countries and then pressuring them to
go to Iraq. All of these problems have resulted in labor disputes,
strikes and on-the-job protests.
While the exact number of TCNs working in Iraq is uncertain, a rough
estimate can be gleaned from Halliburton's own numbers, which
indicate that TCNs make up 35,000 of KBR's 48,000 workers in Iraq
employed under sweeping contract for military support. Known as the
Logistics Civilian Augmentation Program (LOGCAP), this contract - by
far the largest in Iraq -- is now approaching the $15 billion mark.
Citing security concerns, however, the Houston-headquartered company
and several other major contractors declined to release detailed
figures on the workforce that is estimated to be 100,000 or more.
High Risks, Low Benefits
"They do all the grunt jobs," said former KBR supervisor Steve
Powell, 54, from Azle, Texas. "But a lot of them are top notch."
Powell returned home from at Camp Diamondback in May this year. He was
disillusioned, he said, with the high staff turnover of KBR employees
and the treatment of TCNs that a KBR subcontractor from Turkey had
hired as mechanics.
"The Filipinos were making $600 to $1,200 a month. That's good
money for them, but there was tension from time to time. They sometimes
thought they were doing all the work," says Powell who drove trucks
for 30 years before working as a KBR truck maintenance foreman in Iraq
for a year for $6,000 to $8,000 a month. "We weren't supposed to
get our hands dirty."
The TCNs not only do much of the dirty work, but, like others working
for the U.S. military, risk and sometimes lose their lives. Many are
killed in mortar attacks; some are shot. Others have been taken hostage
before meeting their death. In particularly gruesome set of murders on
August 30, 2004, the captors of 12 Nepalese cooks and cleaners working
for a Jordanian construction company beheaded one worker and posted a
video of the execution on the internet with the message: "We have
carried out the sentence of God against 12 Nepalese who came from their
country to fight the Muslims and to serve the Jews and the Christians .
. . believing in Buddha as their God."
The murders led Kathmandu to bar its citizens from working in Iraq,
although companies doing business there continue to employ Nepalese
workers.
The Pentagon keeps no comprehensive record of TCN casualties. But the
Georgia-based nonprofit, Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, estimates that
TCNs make up more than 100 of the estimated 269 civilian fatalities. (
HYPERLINK
(http://icasualties.org/oif/default.aspx)http://icasualties.org/oif/default.aspx)
The number of unreported fatalities could be much higher, while
unreported and life-altering injuries are legion.
Soliman was one TCN who barely escaped death on the night of May 11,
2004, when his living trailer at Camp Anaconda was blown apart by a
bomb attack. Sardonically dubbed "Mortaritaville," the camp sits 42
miles north of Baghdad. Some 17,000 US soldiers and thousands of
contractors have dug into the former Iraqi airbase for a long-term
occupation.
Three others were injured along with Soliman that night. One roommate,
25-year-old fuel pump attendant Raymund Natividad, was killed. Soliman
flew home to the Philippines in a wheelchair days later because he
wanted medical treatment in his own country. But even after surgery and
skin grafts, he sometimes feels nagging pain in his leg, he says.
Doctors tell Soliman he will walk with a piece of shrapnel lodged in
his left leg for the rest of his life.
"It was too deep" to remove, he explains.
The attack ignited shock waves of fear among the 1,300 Filipino workers
at Camp Anaconda. Some 600 PPI employees immediately quit over safety
concerns. "Filipinos don't want to work anymore in the mess halls,
laundry and fuel depot," a Filipino embassy official in Baghdad said
at the time. "There's a paralysis of work."
By mid-July, 2004, the Philippines would resign from the "Coalition of
the Willing" and withdraw its modest military presence of 43 soldiers
and eight policemen from Iraq one month earlier than scheduled. The
precipitating event was a threat by Iraqi militias to behead Filipino
hostage Angelo de la Cruz, a 46-year-old truck driver for the Saudi
Arabian Trading and Construction Company. One day after the withdrawal,
his captors released the father of eight. He returned home to the storm
of media attention hailing his safe return and offers of a free home
and scholarships for the children.
Only fleeting headlines in Manila greeted Soliman's homecoming just
months earlier. Now jobless, he speaks fondly of the U.S. troops to
whom, he says, he was forbidden to speak to by his company supervisors
at PPI.
"The Army treated us like friends," he said, boasting of a certificate
the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers awarded him in recognition of his
service as a warehouse worker who handled and received food supplies
for the camp.
His memories of PPI are less congenial. His managers were foul-mouthed
and verbally abusive and lunches served on the job sites were unfit to
eat, Soliman said. PPI restricted employees to two 5-minute phone calls
home a month and deducted the cost from their paychecks.
"They were $10 more expensive than at the PX (the retail store on the
military base), but if they see you making a call at another location,
they would send you home," Salomon said.
A number of former KBR supervisors say they don't know why TCNs
continue working in Iraq when they face much more brutal working
conditions and hours than what their American and European co-workers
would tolerate.
"TCNs had a lot of problems with overtime and things," recalls
Sharon Reynolds of Kirbyville, Texas. "I remember one time that they
didn't get paid for four months."
The former KBR administrator, who spent 11 months in Iraq until April,
says she was responsible for processing time sheets for 665 TCNs
employed by PPI at Camp Victory near Baghdad. The 14,000 troops and the
American contractors based at this former palace for Saddam Hussein
have use of an Olympic-sized swimming pool and a manmade lake preserved
for special events and fishing.
But TCNs have to make do with far less . "They don't get sick pay
and if PPI had insurance, they sure didn't talk about it much,"
Reynolds recalls. "TCNs had a lot of problems with overtime and
things. ...I had to go to bat for them to get shoes and proper
clothing,"
As for living conditions, TCNs "ate outside in 140 degree heat,"
she says. American contractors and U.S. troops ate at the
air-conditioned Pegasus Dining Facility featuring a short-order grill,
salad, pizza, sandwich and ice cream bars under the KBR logistics
contract.
"TCNs had to stand in line with plates and were served something like
be curry and fish heads from big old pots," Reynolds says
incredulously. "It looked like a concentration camp,"
And even when it came to basic safety, the TCNs faced a double
standard. "They didn't have personal protection equipment to wear
when there was an alert," Reynolds said. "Here we are walking around
with helmets and vests because of an alert and they are just looking at
us wondering what's going on."
Contractors Respond
PPI in Dubai has failed to respond to numerous phone calls about the
accusations of mistreatment. "I don't think anyone will want to
comment." said a representative who answered the phone and decline to
provide phone numbers or e-mail addresses of company executives.
There is little public information about PPI, but other contractors say
the company's leading officers boast of a close association with
Halliburton and say that it was formed by staff who previously worked
with local firms sponsoring Halliburton's business activities in
Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Several sources say PPI was active as a major
Halliburton subcontractor in Bosnia and at the high-security prison at
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Halliburton spokesperson Melissa Norcross denied that the company has
ownership or investment ties with PPI. The Halliburton unit is proud of
its employees and subcontractors "who daily face danger to support
the troops serving in Iraq and the Middle East," said Norcross,
adding that Halliburton requires all subcontractors to provide
acceptable living and working conditions for its workers.
"KBR operates under a rigorous code of ethics that describes not only
its standards of integrity, but its commitment to treat all of its
employees and subcontractors with dignity and respect," Norcross
wrote in an e-mail. The company "is aware of past disagreements
between subcontractors and their employees, and KBR has interjected
itself into the situation as appropriate and worked with the
subcontractors to address these concerns."
Norcross did not offer details of past problems involving working
conditions for TCNs, nor did KBR's project manager for Iraq and
Kuwait, Remo Butler, when contacted by e-mail. But if allegations of
wrongdoing or contract violations are found, Norcross said, Halliburton
would address them, and "would also report any wrongdoings to the
appropriate authorities, including our customer, the U.S. military."
The military, however, is apparently either unaware of the conditions
or has simply chosen not acknowledge them. Margaret A. Browne,
spokesperson for the U.S. Army Field Support Command which manages
KBR's LOGCAP contract, confirmed that the company is expected to
fulfill health, security and life support requirements for
subcontractors in the LOGCAP agreement.
These are "serious issues and we are presently investigating the
specific incidents you've addressed," she said referring to problems
outlined by former KBR supervisors and TCN workers. "We are concerned
about employment conditions for all employees," Browne said in an
e-mail, adding that KBR is expected to fulfill a number of requirements
outlining the health, security and life support requirements for
subcontractors under the LOGCAP agreement ( HYPERLINK
http://www.afsc.army.mil/gc/files/contract%20san.pdfhttp://www.afsc.army.mil/gc/files/contract%20san.pdf),
but that oversight for those requirements is under the purview of
Halliburton and its subcontractors.
Diverted to Iraq
Challenging Halliburton and Army assurances, former KBR supervisors say
they frequently witnessed subcontractors failing to meet required
conditions , while some TCNs share horror stories with claims that they
were falsely recruited, believing they were signing up for work in
Kuwait and then having their contract changed to Iraq.
"I had no idea that I would end up in Iraq" says Ramil Autencio,
who signed with MGM Worldwide Manpower and General Services in the
Philippines. The 37-year-old air conditioning maintenance worker
thought he would be working at Crown Plaza Hotel in Kuwait for $450 a
month.
He arrived in Kuwait in December 2003, only to discover that First
Kuwaiti had bought his contract. The company, which now holds
U.S.-funded contracts valued in the neighborhood of $1 billion,
threatened that unless he and dozens of other Filipino workers went to
Iraq, the Kuwaiti police would arrested them, he says. "We had no
choice but to go along with them. After all, we were in their
country."
Once in Iraq, Autencio found that there were no air conditioners to
install or maintain, so he spent 11 hours a day "moving boulders"
to fortify the camps, first at Camp Anaconda and then at Tikrit.
Food was inadequate and workers were not getting paid, he says. "We
ate when the Americans had leftovers from their meals. If not, we
didn't eat at all."
Working and living conditions were so bad, that in February 2004
Autencio escaped with dozens of others. A U.S. soldier born in the
Philippines helped them leave the camp, and sympathetic truck drivers
working for KBR offered them rides through the country. By the time the
Filipinos reached the Kuwaiti border, Autencio said the number of
fleeing workers was so great that the border police let them pass
through without proper papers.
First Kuwaiti general manager Wahid al Absi says Autencio is lying. His
proof is a working agreement, purportedly signed in the Philippines by
Autencio. Al Absi admits that unscrupulous recruitment agencies do
sometimes misrepresent jobs and take money from people eager to work,
but he provided Autencio's undated contract with First Kuwaiti that
identified the job site as both Kuwait and "mainly" Iraq.
The agreement also lays out salary: $346 a month for 8-hour days, seven
days a week, plus $104 a month for a mandatory 2 hours overtime every
day.
Al Absi insists that Autencio was paid in full.
"He sued me in court over this, and he lost," Al Absi said. "He
doesn't have a case against us."
First Kuwaiti holds $600 million in Army contracts, Al Absi said. The
company is also a leading competitor for $500 million contract to build
the U.S. embassy in Baghdad and presently holds contracts for more than
$300 million for preliminary work on the project.
Pattern of Recruiting Abuses
Autencio is not the only former TCN worker with a grievance against
Halliburton subcontractors and the layers of third-party recruiters.
The Washington Post lays out an intricate recruiting scheme involving
dining service workers from India who were lost in a maze of five
recruiters and subcontractors on several continents. The Indians
claimed to have been falsely recruited for jobs in Kuwait, only to end
up in Iraq. During their time at a military camp in the war zone, they
lacked adequate drinking water, food, health care, and security,
according to the July 1, 2004 article.
"I cursed my fate -- not having a feeling my life was secure, knowing I
could not go back, and being treated like a kind of animal," for less
than $7 a day, Dharmapalan Ajayakumar told the newspaper.
Ajayakumar's case is a study in the convoluted world of Iraqi
contracts: Workers were reported to have been first recruited by
Subhash Vijay in India to work for Gulf Catering Company of Riyadh,
Saudi Arabia. Gulf Catering was subcontracted to Alargan Group of
Kuwait City, which was subcontracted to the Event Source of Salt Lake
City, which in turn was subcontracted to KBR of Houston. And KBR, of
course, is a subsidiary of Halliburton.
Nepalese worker Krishna Bahadur Khadka told a similar story of false
recruitment in a September 7, 2004 news report in the Kathmandu Post.
After being recruited for a job in Kuwait, he says, he arrived only to
be told by First Kuwaiti Trading that if he and 121 other workers they
refused work in Iraq, they would be sent back to Nepal.
"I was not happy at first as my contractors did not provide me a job
as heavy vehicle driver as pledged. But they had offered Rs 175,000
[$2,450], and one would not be able earn half that amount in Kuwait. So
I signed the papers," Khadka said, adding that he had already
invested $1,680 as payment to an agent in Nepal.
First Kuwaiti's general manager claims that this allegation, too, is
a lie and that Khadka misrepresented his skills. Again al Absi
presented a contract identifying the work site as "mainly Iraq." It
bore Khadka's signature and fingerprint.
"Khadka is a troublemaker who was trying to organize the workers,"
al Absi said, noting that thousands of TCNs working for First Kuwaiti
have renewed their contracts with raises. "We treat our workers with
excellent care," he said.
Labor Strike, You're Out
But cared for or not, hundreds of Filipinos in Iraq face being fired
for staging labor strikes and sickouts to protest their treatment at
military camps. In May 2005, 300 Filipinos went on strike at Camp Cook
against PPI and KBR. The workers were soon joined by 500 others from
India, Sri Lanka, and Nepal to protest working conditions and pay,
according to the Manila Times. The dispute was settled with
intervention from the Philippines Department of Foreign Affairs.
At the time of the strike, the Philippines offered the strikers free
flights back to the Philippines, an invitation first made in April when
the Philippines reiterated its ban on work in Iraq. The offer sparked
concern at the U.S. embassy in Manila, according to news reports,
because a loss of Filipino workers threatened military support services
in Iraq.
The U.S. embassy then clarified its position on April 27. Embassy
spokesperson Karen Kelley acknowledged that while Filipinos "play a
crucial role in the allied effort to bring peace and democracy to a
people who have been too long deprived of both," embassy officials
also "recognize the government of the Philippines' concern for the
welfare of its citizens."
Other strikes have gone unreported, recalls former KBR employee Paul
Dinsmore. Hired as a carpenter, he later transferred to Logistics as a
heavy truck driver at Camp Speicher, a sprawling 24-square-mile
installation near Tikrit in northern Iraq. Dinsmore says the work crews
he supervised at the former Iraqi airbase were made up of Hindis,
Pakistanis, Nepalese, and Filipinos working for First Kuwaiti.
Working at Camp Speicher for seven months before returning home in May
2005, Dinsmore said he knew of three different instances of TCN
construction workers who refused outright to work or showed up only to
sit out most of the day. Asked what was going on, TCNs told him that
First Kuwaiti had not been paid them for several months and that they
didn't want to be treated that way.
"I heard that several hundred Filipinos were fired in September 2004
before I got there because of labor problems," Dinsmore said. After
discovering that the TCN assistants were not paid any overtime, he was
careful to get them back to their compound after their 10 hour day.
Like Powell and Reynolds, Dinsmore recounted dismal working conditions.
"One of the construction Filipinos told him that they were treated
like human cattle by some of the Western employees there and that they
did not receive enough medical treatment when they were ill."
Many times, Dinsmore said, he would buy non-prescription drugs from the
PX for his crews, especially when a very bad virus was going around
during the winter of 2004-2005. If the case was bad enough, he would
take the workers to the KBR clinic. His supervisor and the clinic
medics told him that treating TCNs violated company policy. "We were
told that First Kuwaiti was supposed to take care of them," Dinsmore
said.
Dinsmore also turned to the Army for food. He says the food First
Kuwaiti served was so poor, that he and other KBR employees would hand
out military field rations - known as "meals ready to eat" or
MREs. "When the Army stopped that practice, many of us KBR people would
pick up "to go" plates from the DFAC [dining facilities] and hand
them out to the TCNs we were responsible for. If you want them to work
well, you've got to feed them."
Despite these conditions, TCNs finished jobs ahead of schedule, says
Dinsmore. He credits these workers for personal praise he won from KBR
and the military for his own performance. "The reality was that
without the TCNs, very little construction would get accomplished on
time on Speicher," said Dinsmore adding that "I heard that eventually
KBR took care of the pay issue."
First Kuwaiti manager Wadih Al Absi insists that his company provides
the same quality of living and food that the U.S. Army provides to its
soldiers and that the company has received commendations from the Army.
"We have no problems with our employees; they get excellent care,"
he said.
First Kuwaiti holds $600 million in Army contracts, Al Absi said. The
company is also a leading competitor for being awarded a forthcoming
$500 million contract to build the U.S. embassy in Baghdad and
presently holds contracts over $300 million for preliminary work on the
project.
Let Them Eat Sand
Randy McDale, who rose to be a KBR foreman for heavy construction
equipment at Camp Victory and other installations near the Baghdad
International Airport, confirmed many of the other contractors' and
TCN's charges of miserable conditions and inadequate safety.
"Everyday was like T-bone steaks for us, but I would starve to death
before eating what they had," he said of the workers with PPI.
"Guys would just go and get lunch for them and bring it to the work
site. The TCNs couldn't get it fast enough."
McDale, a KBR foreman for heavy construction equipment at Camp Victory
and other installations near the Baghdad International Airport, spent
15 months in Iraq before returning home in April to an eight-year-old
trailer house on 35-acres of land in cattle ranch country outside of
Bogata, Texas, "halfway between Paris and Texarkana."
Earning about $7,500 to $8,000 a month before his promotion, McDale
said many American workers saw a clear line between themselves and the
TCNs. "There's a prejudice among some Americans that they are not
equal and just labor force," he said. "Americans are supposed to be
the experts."
The division was made all the more clear to McDale by TCNs' lack of
protective armor for threat alerts and boots and hard hats for
construction work. "Some were wearing sandals walking in the mud when
it was winter and 40 degrees," he said of the Indians, Sri Lankans
and Filipinos he worked with. "One guy didn't even have a coat."
KBR gave McDale grief after he requested 20 hard hats for his workers,
he said. "I don't know why KBR wasn't giving PPI a hard time for
not getting the right equipment. That's the way it works in the
States. If a subcontractor isn't ready, you fire them."
Willing to Return
Although Filipino passports now explicitly ban entry into Iraq, the
ranks of Filipinos sneaking over the border from neighboring countries
has as swelled from an estimated 4,000 before the 2003 ban to 6,000
today.
Filipinos "believe it is better to work in Iraq with their lives in
danger rather than face the danger of not having breakfast, lunch, or
dinner in the Philippines," said Maita Santiago, secretary-general
for Migrante International, an organization that defends the rights of
more than a million overseas Filipino workers.
Despite complaints about First Kuwaiti, Autencio said he would return
to Iraq if he had guarantees for proper food and pay. "I would take
my chances abroad if I couldn't find a decent job here," he said
during an interview at his home in Pasig City, an urban area in
metropolitan Manila "But I'd take any job here that pays enough to
buy me a second hand car and start my own business."
Soliman, now finds his problems with PPI and injuries in Iraq pale in
comparison to life back in the Philippines. Jobless, he sees his life
teetering on the edge. He may be splitting up with his wife, and plans
for providing a new home to his family are on hold. He says he doubts
that PPI will be sending money for his final medical checkup or even
the several months salary he says he is still owed But those things
don't matter so much.
What really matters now is finding another job. "If you hear of
anything, let me know," Soliman said at the end of the interview.
"I would even go back to Iraq."
David Phinney is a journalist and broadcaster based in Washington, DC,
whose work has appeared in The Los Angeles Times, New York Times and on
ABC and PBS. He can be contacted at: phinne...@yahoo.com.
Rob J
jgr...@ec.auckland.ac.nz says...
>
> War Profiteers
As this has nothing to do with New Zealand, kindly piss off to another
forum.
BrentC
Of course it has everything to do about NZ - because - Janice is
in/from NZ - NZers pay for the Auckland Uni Server that she uses to
post her eagerly awaited info world wide. :)
**************
BrentC
Janice
BrentC wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:05:23 +1300, Rob J <ro...@nospam.nospam> wrote:
>
> >In article <1128392580.1...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> >jgr...@ec.auckland.ac.nz says...
> >>
> >> War Profiteers
> >
> >As this has nothing to do with New Zealand, kindly piss off to another
> >forum.
Ferk off, loser.
>
>
>
>
> Of course it has everything to do about NZ - because - Janice is
> in/from NZ - NZers pay for the Auckland Uni Server that she uses to
> post her eagerly awaited info world wide. :)
Lol!
Sidproquo
You must understand how Janice and her followers think, they believe
that all Americans are evil and the only good one is a dead one.
They and others like them here, see America as the evil empire, while
at the same time they see all other countries, especially those with
internal strife and brutal dictators, as shining examples of humanity
and models that we should all follow.
As long as they are not the evil Americans, it matters not to Janice
and her band, what levels of brutality or horrors that the leaders of
the more despotic nations may inflict upon their own and others.
Be it the bomber in Asia, the terrorists in a Russian schoolyard, or
the gangsters slowly cutting the throats of their helpless hostages, we
will be told that all evil anywhere world wide is the sole fault of the
American people.
They believe, Janice and her followers in their wisdom, that if by some
miracle, and its one they must pray for daily, that all Americans, men,
women, and children should die a cruel and violent death, then the
following day peace would reign world wide.
Such is the stupidity, naivety ,and viciousness, of the Death to all
Americans brigade.
Janice
Sidproquo wrote:
> Janice wrote:
> > BrentC wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:05:23 +1300, Rob J <ro...@nospam.nospam> wrote:
> > >
> > > >In article <1128392580.1...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> > > >jgr...@ec.auckland.ac.nz says...
> > > >>
> > > >> War Profiteers
> > > >
> > > >As this has nothing to do with New Zealand, kindly piss off to another
> > > >forum.
> >
> > Ferk off, loser.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Of course it has everything to do about NZ - because - Janice is
> > > in/from NZ - NZers pay for the Auckland Uni Server that she uses to
> > > post her eagerly awaited info world wide. :)
> >
> > Lol!
>
> You must understand how Janice and her followers think, they believe
> that all Americans are evil and the only good one is a dead one.
To the contrary - the website cited above --for example -- about the
American military industrial complex profiteering from both Iraq and
the American taxpayer is American.
I see it as my civic duty to distribute information to Americans on
behalf of other Americans. Their information is so controlled by a
corporate media cartel.
You meanwhile are a loathsome little quisling who shirks the issue of
war profiteering by corporate conglomerates, preferring it seems to
see Nazis march in jackboots down American mainstreets?
>
> As long as they are not the evil Americans, it matters not to Janice
> and her band, what levels of brutality or horrors that the leaders of
> the more despotic nations may inflict upon their own and others
I am in a newsgroup which is exclusively American.
What a pity you lack the brain to recognise fascism even when its
staring you in the face.... or maybe you do. Maybe you are a strutting
little National Fronter who breaks Jewish gravestones on the sly.
Sidproquo
Not at all, I personaly believe Bush was a fool for ever invading Iraq,
and have publicly stated here in the past that this Muslim dictatorship
was not worth the shedding of a single drop of American blood and never
will be.
The population of Iraq choose how they were governed, its an internal
matter and should be left soley up to them to resolve.
> > As long as they are not the evil Americans, it matters not to Janice
> > and her band, what levels of brutality or horrors that the leaders of
> > the more despotic nations may inflict upon their own and others
>
> I am in a newsgroup which is exclusively American.
Why, when you and your ilk see America as the evil empire, are you not
being a hypocrite ?.
> What a pity you lack the brain to recognise fascism even when its
> staring you in the face.... or maybe you do. Maybe you are a strutting
> little National Fronter who breaks Jewish gravestones on the sly.
No, Im am neither a facist or a National front sympathiser, and I do
not step to the gutter level of breaking gravestones, but unlike you I
am not so foolish, bigoted, and ignorant, that I vilify the populations
of entire nations, be they Israeli or American, because I disagree
with their present leadership.
Janice
Sidproquo wrote:
So the truth comes out. It is actually you who is anti-American and
anti-Bush.
My criticisms were directed at the military industrial nexux who
appear to own America these days and who seem to view the American
tax take as their own private piggy bank.
> and have publicly stated here in the past that this Muslim dictatorship
> was not worth the shedding of a single drop of American blood and never
> will be.
> The population of Iraq choose how they were governed, its an internal
> matter and should be left soley up to them to resolve.
So, why criticise those who demand accountability from politicians for
the huge tax dividends they distribute to corporate caebols
profiteering hugely from the war? In my humble opinion huge profits
were the single and only reason for the war.
>
> > > As long as they are not the evil Americans, it matters not to Janice
> > > and her band, what levels of brutality or horrors that the leaders of
> > > the more despotic nations may inflict upon their own and others
> >
> > I am in a newsgroup which is exclusively American.
>
> Why, when you and your ilk see America as the evil empire, are you not
> being a hypocrite ?.
You make it up as you go along. America is in danger of descending
into fascist madness yes, but unlike the ignorant [ of the corporate
state ] who blamed ordinary Germans after WW2 I do not blame Americans
for what is happening to America. They have little or no control over
their destiny. Their elections are rigged, their media is controlled,
their taxes are stolen from them and handed over to big business
oligarchs [ who basically run everything] and their children are sent
off to fight and die in a war which has more to do with privatisation,
trade and profit than any real or percieved threat to the American
people.
>
> > What a pity you lack the brain to recognise fascism even when its
> > staring you in the face.... or maybe you do. Maybe you are a strutting
> > little National Fronter who breaks Jewish gravestones on the sly.
>
> No, Im am neither a facist or a National front sympathiser,
Well you could have fooled me.
Rob J
jgr...@ec.auckland.ac.nz says...
What a lot of crap.
Anyone who is an American can access all the news services just like you
do. They don't need your nanny mentality in choosing selected
information sources and posting them.
This is a NEW ZEALAND group.
Sidproquo
> My criticisms were directed at the military industrial nexux who
> appear to own America these days and who seem to view the American
> tax take as their own private piggy bank.
>
>
> > and have publicly stated here in the past that this Muslim dictatorship
> > was not worth the shedding of a single drop of American blood and never
> > will be.
>
>
>
> > The population of Iraq choose how they were governed, its an internal
> > matter and should be left soley up to them to resolve.
>
>
> So, why criticise those who demand accountability from politicians for
> the huge tax dividends they distribute to corporate caebols
> profiteering hugely from the war? In my humble opinion huge profits
> were the single and only reason for the war.
Far from enriching the American economy, this war is costing that
country millions of dollars a day, and diverting huge sums of money
that is needed for urgent social development.
The American people have been put in a lose, lose, situation, and the
overall cost to the American economy has been enormous, there are no
winners in this scenario and never will be.
>
> >
> > > > As long as they are not the evil Americans, it matters not to Janice
> > > > and her band, what levels of brutality or horrors that the leaders of
> > > > the more despotic nations may inflict upon their own and others
> > >
> > > I am in a newsgroup which is exclusively American.
> >
> > Why, when you and your ilk see America as the evil empire, are you not
> > being a hypocrite ?.
>
>
> You make it up as you go along. America is in danger of descending
> into fascist madness yes, but unlike the ignorant [ of the corporate
> state ] who blamed ordinary Germans after WW2 I do not blame Americans
> for what is happening to America. They have little or no control over
> their destiny. Their elections are rigged, their media is controlled,
> their taxes are stolen from them and handed over to big business
> oligarchs [ who basically run everything] and their children are sent
> off to fight and die in a war which has more to do with privatisation,
> trade and profit than any real or percieved threat to the American
> people.
>
That is a hysterical nonsense, and well you know it, you are spouting
almost verbatim the rubbish put out by some of the pseudo christian
groups, next you will be telling us that its all a plan for world
domination coddled together by the wicked Jewish industialists and
capitalists for the purposes of world domination, for that is the usual
dogma preached by these idiot fringe groups.
> > > What a pity you lack the brain to recognise fascism even when its
> > > staring you in the face.... or maybe you do. Maybe you are a strutting
> > > little National Fronter who breaks Jewish gravestones on the sly.
> >
> > No, Im am neither a facist or a National front sympathiser,
>
> Well you could have fooled me.
Now considering your naivety that would be very easy to accomplish.
WD
Janice wrote:
snip
> You make it up as you go along. America is in danger of descending
> into fascist madness yes, but unlike the ignorant [ of the corporate
> state ] who blamed ordinary Germans after WW2 I do not blame Americans
> for what is happening to America. They have little or no control over
> their destiny. Their elections are rigged, their media is controlled,
> their taxes are stolen from them and handed over to big business
> oligarchs [ who basically run everything] and their children are sent
> off to fight and die in a war which has more to do with privatisation,
> trade and profit than any real or percieved threat to the American
> people.
What a load of nonsense. 53 million of us voted for Bush and we
couldn't give a damn what you think about it. Americans have plenty of
access to information on which to base their vote. Just because we
didn't want to vote for that moron Kerry doesn't mean the vote was
rigged.
Also, people *volunteer* to defend their country and they don't need
people like you disrespecting their decision and thinking you know
what's best for them. They are NOT children, they are adults.
W.D.
Rob J
tuar...@woosh.co.nz says...
>
> Janice wrote:
> snip
> > You make it up as you go along. America is in danger of descending
> > into fascist madness yes, but unlike the ignorant [ of the corporate
> > state ] who blamed ordinary Germans after WW2 I do not blame Americans
> > for what is happening to America. They have little or no control over
> > their destiny. Their elections are rigged, their media is controlled,
> > their taxes are stolen from them and handed over to big business
> > oligarchs [ who basically run everything] and their children are sent
> > off to fight and die in a war which has more to do with privatisation,
> > trade and profit than any real or percieved threat to the American
> > people.
> snip
>
> What a load of nonsense. 53 million of us voted for Bush and we
> couldn't give a damn what you think about it. Americans have plenty of
> access to information on which to base their vote. Just because we
> didn't want to vote for that moron Kerry doesn't mean the vote was
> rigged.
Janice lives in fairyland - or to put it another way she believes
everything she reads on conspiracy theory websites.
Janice
WD wrote:
> Janice wrote:
> snip
> > You make it up as you go along. America is in danger of descending
> > into fascist madness yes, but unlike the ignorant [ of the corporate
> > state ] who blamed ordinary Germans after WW2 I do not blame Americans
> > for what is happening to America. They have little or no control over
> > their destiny. Their elections are rigged, their media is controlled,
> > their taxes are stolen from them and handed over to big business
> > oligarchs [ who basically run everything] and their children are sent
> > off to fight and die in a war which has more to do with privatisation,
> > trade and profit than any real or percieved threat to the American
> > people.
> snip
>
> What a load of nonsense. 53 million of us voted for Bush and we
That is not what the extensive list of articles on these pages say.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/rigvote.html
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm
It is interesting that you are an American voter. There are far more
American Bush voters on our NZ political newsgroup than we realise--
too many in fact.
Janice
Rob J wrote:
janice wrote:
> >
> > You meanwhile are a loathsome little quisling who shirks the issue of
> > war profiteering by corporate conglomerates, preferring it seems to
> > see Nazis march in jackboots down American mainstreets?
>
> What a lot of crap.
> Anyone who is an American can access all the news services just like you
> do. They don't need your nanny mentality in choosing selected
> information sources and posting them.
Taking into account your nationality, your backround, education and
intellecf I am sure you will not be able to follow the fact that the
half doz. media conglomerates on which the majority of Americans depend
for their news and views behave more like a caebol, than independent
competitors.
>
> This is a NEW ZEALAND group.
So? You are not a New Zealander so get lost yourself.
Janice
Sidproquo wrote:
> Janice wrote:
> > So the truth comes out. It is actually you who is anti-American and
> > anti-Bush.
> Now you are being deliberately stupid.
My objections were not about the US lead war on Iraq but about war
profiteering by a military industrial corporate juggernaut. Your
objections meanwhile are aimed solely at Bush and the Americans for
launching the war in the first place. There is a difference.
> > > and have publicly stated here in the past that this Muslim dictatorship
> > > was not worth the shedding of a single drop of American blood and never
> > > The population of Iraq choose how they were governed, its an internal
> > > matter and should be left soley up to them to resolve.
> >
Snip
> > So, why criticise those who demand accountability from politicians for
> > the huge tax dividends they distribute to corporate caebols
> > profiteering hugely from the war? In my humble opinion huge profits
> > were the single and only reason for the war.
>
> Far from enriching the American economy, this war is costing that
> country millions of dollars a day, and diverting huge sums of money
> that is needed for urgent social development.
What is your objection to CorpWatch whistleblowing about tax money
being thrown at the corporate collusus making a mint off the US
taxpayer, in Iraq?
>
> The American people have been put in a lose, lose, situation, and the
> overall cost to the American economy has been enormous, there are no
> winners in this scenario and never will be.
Yes?
> >
> > You make it up as you go along. America is in danger of descending
> > into fascist madness yes, but unlike the ignorant [ of the corporate
> > state ] who blamed ordinary Germans after WW2 I do not blame Americans
> > for what is happening to America. They have little or no control over
> > their destiny. Their elections are rigged, their media is controlled,
> > their taxes are stolen from them and handed over to big business
> > oligarchs [ who basically run everything] and their children are sent
> > off to fight and die in a war which has more to do with privatisation,
> > trade and profit than any real or percieved threat to the American
> > people.
> >
>
> That is a hysterical nonsense, and well you know it, you are spouting
> almost verbatim the rubbish put out by some of the pseudo christian
> groups, next you will be telling us that its all a plan for world
> domination coddled together by the wicked Jewish industialists and
> capitalists for the purposes of world domination, for that is the usual
> dogma preached by these idiot fringe groups.
I wish it were. No the hysterical nonsense is all my own research into
the corporate cartels which held power over the fascist states of
Germany and Italy. It is a conspiracy inasmuch as corporateer liability
and war crimes were covered up after the war, quite deliberately.
>
> > > > What a pity you lack the brain to recognise fascism even when its
> > > > staring you in the face.... or maybe you do. Maybe you are a strutting
> > > > little National Fronter who breaks Jewish gravestones on the sly.
> > >
> > > No, Im am neither a facist or a National front sympathiser,
> >
> > Well you could have fooled me.
>
> Now considering your naivety that would be very easy to accomplish.
You are amibigous in that you present very mixed messages. Perhaps you
lack the courage of conviction.
Sidproquo
How quaint, you have just finished telling another poster in
nz,politics that they were to mind their own business because, they
were not a New Zealander, and here you are sticking your beak into
American domestic and foreign policy.
But I am sure the irony will be lost on you.
Janice
Sidproquo wrote:
Try to keep up. He told me to piss off because I posted this
interesting article about how the corporate juggernaut had its snout
deeply immersed in the US tax take. According to these non-New
Zealanders who have invaded our political newsgroup like a damned
plague lately we must confine ourselves to nz only topics. No
international interests... because they damage the cause of the NZ
right perhaps?
When the wolves want freedom the sheep die.
and here you are sticking your beak into
> American domestic and foreign policy.
We have freedom of speech in our NZ democracy: are you righties not
aware of this or is it just that you want to control "my" speech?
Rob J
jgr...@ec.auckland.ac.nz says...
>
> WD wrote:
> > Janice wrote:
> > snip
> > > You make it up as you go along. America is in danger of descending
> > > into fascist madness yes, but unlike the ignorant [ of the corporate
> > > state ] who blamed ordinary Germans after WW2 I do not blame Americans
> > > for what is happening to America. They have little or no control over
> > > their destiny. Their elections are rigged, their media is controlled,
> > > their taxes are stolen from them and handed over to big business
> > > oligarchs [ who basically run everything] and their children are sent
> > > off to fight and die in a war which has more to do with privatisation,
> > > trade and profit than any real or percieved threat to the American
> > > people.
> > snip
> >
> > What a load of nonsense. 53 million of us voted for Bush and we
> > couldn't give a damn what you think about?
>
>
> That is not what the extensive list of articles on these pages say.
>
> http://whatreallyhappened.com/rigvote.html
>
> http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm
Both these sites are kook conspiracy sites - no further comment needed.
> It is interesting that you are an American voter. There are far more
> American Bush voters on our NZ political newsgroup than we realise--
> too many in fact.
I'd sooner have them than your uninformed baseless rants about life in
the US taken from, not any kind of personal knowledge, but brainwashing
by forcefeeding a diet of anti-american propaganda.
Rob J
jgr...@ec.auckland.ac.nz says...
>
> Rob J wrote:
>
> janice wrote:
> > >
> > > You meanwhile are a loathsome little quisling who shirks the issue of
> > > war profiteering by corporate conglomerates, preferring it seems to
> > > see Nazis march in jackboots down American mainstreets?
> >
> > What a lot of crap.
> > Anyone who is an American can access all the news services just like you
> > do. They don't need your nanny mentality in choosing selected
> > information sources and posting them.
>
> Taking into account your nationality, your backround, education and
> intellecf I am sure you will not be able to follow the fact that the
> half doz. media conglomerates on which the majority of Americans depend
> for their news and views behave more like a caebol, than independent
> competitors.
I am sure with no knowledge except constant self indoctrination and
brainwashing from the most rabid Anti-American websites in the world you
would know less than most people who live in the US.
> >
> > This is a NEW ZEALAND group.
>
> So? You are not a New Zealander so get lost yourself.
Not a New Zealander? LOL. I can trace my ancestry back 155 years in this
country. Perhaps you'd like to say when your forebears arrived in NZ
then we will see who has the more generations here.
Janice
Rob J wrote:
> In article <1128549712.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> jgr...@ec.auckland.ac.nz says...
> >
> > WD wrote:
> > > Janice wrote:
> > > snip
> > > > You make it up as you go along. America is in danger of descending
> > > > into fascist madness yes, but unlike the ignorant [ of the corporate
> > > > state ] who blamed ordinary Germans after WW2 I do not blame Americans
> > > > for what is happening to America. They have little or no control over
> > > > their destiny. Their elections are rigged, their media is controlled,
> > > > their taxes are stolen from them and handed over to big business
> > > > oligarchs [ who basically run everything] and their children are sent
> > > > off to fight and die in a war which has more to do with privatisation,
> > > > trade and profit than any real or percieved threat to the American
> > > > people.
> > > snip
> > >
> > > What a load of nonsense. 53 million of us voted for Bush and we
> > > couldn't give a damn what you think about?
> >
> >
> > That is not what the extensive list of articles on these pages say.
> >
> > http://whatreallyhappened.com/rigvote.html
> >
> > http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm
>
> Both these sites are kook conspiracy sites - no further comment needed
The usual lame mantra from a zontech cultist who can't address the
issue.
>
> > It is interesting that you are an American voter. There are far more
> > American Bush voters on our NZ political newsgroup than we realise--
> > too many in fact.
>
> I'd sooner have them than your uninformed baseless rants about life in
> the US
The usual lame mahtra from a zontech cultist who cant address the
issue.
taken from, not any kind of personal knowledge, but brainwashing
> by forcefeeding a diet of anti-american propaganda.
The usual lame mantra from a zontech cultist who cant address the
issue.
:-)
Rob J
jgr...@ec.auckland.ac.nz says...
Plenty of opportunity to address the issue but no one is going to bother
when they get shouted down by your rabid ill-informed views shouted
loudly on forums such as these, there's no room for any dissenting view
in your world.
WD
A conspiracy theory does not equal proof that the election was rigged.
You offer no evidence that the election was rigged. All you offer is a
theory that it may have been possible for someone to hack the system
and change the results without being found out. You don't actually
have any proof that this happened.
Furthermore, how would any deficiency in Diebold voting software affect
the numerous polls taken before the election which typically had Bush
ahead. Does the conspiracy grow even larger now? With even more
players involved?
Of course a poll is not the same as an election, but they are generally
in the right ball park. You need to face facts about the American
public. It isn't a nation of leftists. Even many democrats lean
towards the middle rather than out on the far left.
W.D.