NZ knife carrying laws?
~misfit~
detained by police in the past, have never had them say anything about it.
However, now I see knives like these:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/auction-222734430.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/auction-222934119.htm
So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives such
as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have seen
people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
"Build a man a fire, and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and
he`ll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett, Jingo.
Fred
"~misfit~" <misfi...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:h0mvab$ljf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>I always carry a Victorinox Swiss Army knife with me and, when I've been
>detained by police in the past, have never had them say anything about it.
>However, now I see knives like these:
>
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/auction-222734430.htm
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/auction-222934119.htm
>
> So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives
> such as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have
> seen people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
>
Print it off and ask the peelers.
vitw
> I always carry a Victorinox Swiss Army knife with me and, when I've been
> detained by police in the past, have never had them say anything about
> it. However, now I see knives like these:
>
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/
auction-222734430.htm
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/
auction-222934119.htm
>
> So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives
> such as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have
> seen people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
I shouldn't think you'd have any problem with them. They're not what
you'd call a fighting iron. No blade guards on top or underneath, no
flick or switchblade action. The blade probably doesn't even lock in
place.
peterwn
>
> So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives such
> as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have seen
> people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
>
See section 202A(4) of the Crimes Act:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329710.html#DLM329710
Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years—
(a) who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, has with
him in any public place any knife or offensive weapon or disabling
substance; or
(b) who has in his possession in any place any offensive weapon
or disabling substance in circumstances that prima facie show an
intention to use it to commit an offence involving bodily injury or
the threat or fear of violence.
For (b) 'offensive weapon' would include a knife.
Whether you are in breach of (a) would depend on the type of knife and
the circumstances under which you had the knife. You would need to
have some reasonable excuse for having the particular type of knife
and probably not carrying it in your hand unless it was in a bag, etc
or wrapped up to stop immediate deployment.
For example someone engaging in a vigilante operation could be more
exposed to (a) than someone going about normal business.
Roger_Nickel
> I always carry a Victorinox Swiss Army knife with me and, when I've been
> detained by police in the past, have never had them say anything about
> it. However, now I see knives like these:
>
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/
auction-222734430.htm
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/
auction-222934119.htm
>
> So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives
> such as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have
> seen people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
>
> Cheers,
OK providing there is no criminal intent. No daggers. No flick-knives.
Blade less than 100mm long. Don't get caught with one while committing a
crime.
JohnO
The other no-no is sharpened on both edges. They should be fine.
But almost any knife, or object for that matter, can be deemed an
offensive weapon based on context. For instance if the cops pull you
over and you have a baseball bat in the car: If you are going to a
baseball game you are ok. If you are going to a robbery it is a
weapon.
Enkidu
> I always carry a Victorinox Swiss Army knife with me and, when I've been
> detained by police in the past, have never had them say anything about it.
> However, now I see knives like these:
>
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/auction-222734430.htm
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/auction-222934119.htm
>
> So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives such
> as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have seen
> people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
>
about 20 - 25 mm long. It was found by the detectors at the airport and
I had to post it to myself.
Cheers,
Cliff
--
The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
the same old personalities show through.
wmaitl...@gmail.com
> detained by police in the past, have never had them say anything about it.
> However, now I see knives like these:
>
>
> So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives such
> as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have seen
> people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Shaun.
>
> "Build a man a fire, and he`ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and
> he`ll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett, Jingo.
I always have a cutter in my bag, usually one of the ones with
disposable blades
and I have a switchblade which I sometimes carry, you never know when
you will see a nice roadside flax plant.
Last time i went to aussie I had three knives in my purse, I forgot
they were in there and meant to remove them before leaving home.
The handbag went through the scanner and the security guys didn't even
notice what was in there ...... we were about to walk on when I
remembered.
I turned to the security guys and said 'here you'd better have
these'......as i fished around my handbag to gather up all the
knives ......handed them to the 3 guys who looked very embarrassed.
We boarded the plane with me wondering what the other passengers might
be carrying ...unnoticed... in their hand luggage.
Nicolaas Hawkins
in <news:cc54c6da-c200-43ea...@k20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>:
Probably true in general but, in any public place, if ever Lily Law has
occasion to turn you over, possession of such an article is unlikely to be
looked upon with great favour - and, absent a convincing explanation of
'lawful, proper and sufficient purpose' it would probably be viewed as an
offensive weapon. After all, they aren't designed simply for cutting
string!
--
- Nicolaas
JohnO
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:20:49 -0700 (PDT), JohnO <johno1...@gmail.com> wrote
Agreed.
Roger Dewhurst
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> I always carry a Victorinox Swiss Army knife with me and, when I've
>> been detained by police in the past, have never had them say anything
>> about it. However, now I see knives like these:
>>
>> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/auction-222734430.htm
>>
>> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-collectables/Militaria/Knives-daggers/auction-222934119.htm
>>
>>
>> So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying
>> knives such as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out
>> but have seen people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
>>
> Don't try to take it on a plane. I have a little keyring knife, blade is
> about 20 - 25 mm long. It was found by the detectors at the airport and
> I had to post it to myself.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cliff
>
I had a little American money clip which contained a small blade, 25mm
or less. The US embassy in Stockholm took a dim view of it when I went
to apply for a visa to visit the USA!
R
~misfit~
Hmmm. OK, thanks. It sems it's mostly about set and setting. Interpretation.
Don Mackie
Talks about importation but give some more info.
On Jun 10, 2:22 pm, Enkidu <enkidu....@com.cliffp.com> wrote:
> Don't try to take it on a plane. I have a little keyring knife, blade is
> about 20 - 25 mm long. It was found by the detectors at the airport and
> I had to post it to myself.
Rules have been relaxed, my EDC (that's a giveaway) is a Victorinox
Midnight Manager on my keyring and has been fine on domestic flights
for a while. A no-no for international though.
~misfit~
Those are both able to be flicked open with the thumb once the blade lock is
disengaged....
~misfit~
I have a friend in the fire service who always carries one (of the serrated
edge type) for cutting through seatbelts. I mean *always* carries it, not
just on call-outs.
Don Mackie
-snip-
> and I have a switchblade which I sometimes carry, you never know when
> you will see a nice roadside flax plant.
A switchblade (ie flick knife or automatic knife) can't be imported
and will get the attention of the boys in blue - hard to think of a
lawful excuse for carrying one. Do you mean a folding knife
(penknife)?
As to airport security. Friend of mine was gobsmacked to realise that
a big, dagger-shaped paper knife he had been given as a gift sailed
through the screening. He was a little anxious as to what to do, even
taking a big knife-shaped thing out of his bag could be misinterpreted.
~misfit~
They are both able to be flicked open with a thumb and both feature blade
locks.
I bought a second-hand 'spring assisted' knife from Trademe a while back, a
Gerber Fast Draw.
http://www.gerberstore.com/index.php?xpage=itempage&xid=711
I sometimes walk of an evening and have had it in my pocket once or twice as
this area is 'low-rent' and there are sometimes groups of drunk youths
around. Hopefully it'll never leave my pocket but I just wondered as to the
legality of it.
vitw
> I sometimes walk of an evening and have had it in my pocket once or
> twice as this area is 'low-rent' and there are sometimes groups of drunk
> youths around. Hopefully it'll never leave my pocket but I just wondered
> as to the legality of it.
Depending on your own skill/experience, a good street-fighter might be
able to get such a weapon off you in seconds.
Any responsible martial arts instructor will tell you that the best form
of self-defense is walking away (or running away) if possible.
A _L_ P
> I have a friend in the fire service who always carries one (of the serrated
> edge type) for cutting through seatbelts. I mean *always* carries it, not
> just on call-outs.
I think emergency services people are never 100% off duty. Their
training has made it natural for them to go from laid back to full on in
an instant. Emergencies can happen anywhere, including where they
happen to be on their days off. They can't leave their training in a
locker at work. I think it would be awfully hard to know that with one
small piece of simple equipment someone's life could have been saved.
A L P
peterwn
>
> Hmmm. OK, thanks. It sems it's mostly about set and setting. Interpretation.
> --
Yes. The key thing here is the 'reverse onus.' In general the cops
merely need to prove that you were carrying a knife. You then have to
convince the beak (or jury) that you had it with lawful authority or a
reasonable excuse. It is apparent that all the circumstances under
which you had the knife are relevant when assessing this.
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
> On Jun 10, 12:38 pm, "~misfit~" <misfit6...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> > So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives such
> > as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have seen
> > people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
>
>
> Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years—
> (a) who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, has with
> him in any public place any knife or offensive weapon or disabling
> substance; or
> (b) who has in his possession in any place any offensive weapon
> or disabling substance in circumstances that prima facie show an
> intention to use it to commit an offence involving bodily injury or
> the threat or fear of violence.
>
> For (b) 'offensive weapon' would include a knife.
>
> Whether you are in breach of (a) would depend on the type of knife and
> the circumstances under which you had the knife. You would need to
> have some reasonable excuse for having the particular type of knife
> and probably not carrying it in your hand unless it was in a bag, etc
> or wrapped up to stop immediate deployment.
>
> For example someone engaging in a vigilante operation could be more
> exposed to (a) than someone going about normal business.
Serious question: self defence is a lawful activity. Could carrying
for self-defence be considered?
wmaitl...@gmail.com
> On Jun 10, 2:26 pm, wmaitland...@gmail.com wrote:
> -snip-
>
> > and I have a switchblade which I sometimes carry, you never know when
> > you will see a nice roadside flax plant.
>
> A switchblade (ie flick knife or automatic knife) can't be imported
> and will get the attention of the boys in blue - hard to think of a
> lawful excuse for carrying one. Do you mean a folding knife
> (penknife)?
Could be, it resembles a switchblade but folds and was a gift
> As to airport security. Friend of mine was gobsmacked to realise that
> a big, dagger-shaped paper knife he had been given as a gift sailed
> through the screening. He was a little anxious as to what to do, even
> taking a big knife-shaped thing out of his bag could be misinterpreted.
I never had that problem relinquishing my knives but they were only
cheapies so it didn't matter and it never occured to me that pulling
out some knives at an airport could be misintepretted, probably
because I am such an elegant, dainty and inoffensive looking woman
that the big burlies on security didn't even flinch,
in fact as I walked away I saw them smiling and asking each other how
that happened.
~misfit~
Nice little knife. No good as a deterent for gangs of drunk youths in the
area I live though. :-(
~misfit~
>
>> I sometimes walk of an evening and have had it in my pocket once or
>> twice as this area is 'low-rent' and there are sometimes groups of
>> drunk youths around. Hopefully it'll never leave my pocket but I
>> just wondered as to the legality of it.
>
> Depending on your own skill/experience, a good street-fighter might be
> able to get such a weapon off you in seconds.
I'm confident of my ability to defend myself against one or two, maybe even
three (non-black belt) attackers whilst unarmed. However, this is a Black
Power stronghold and there are always young 'prospects' looking to make a
name for themselves and move up the chain. Usually they're in groups of six
or more...
> Any responsible martial arts instructor will tell you that the best
> form of self-defense is walking away (or running away) if possible.
Yeah, I'm very good at avoiding confrontation. However, as I get older and
less formidable-looking I worry a little over some of the groups who hang
around on the street I live on (and nearby). I mean, it's no big thing. I've
been here for a while and am known fairly well. It's just that, if it were
to ever come to it, with my inability to run, perhaps showing a blade would
buy me enough time to get away...
Being an invalid, about the only excercise I can reasonably get (and I need)
is walking. Since the police did some widespread drug raids in Pukekohe and
took a few of the senior Black Power members into custody there's a vacuum
at the top, and a lot of juniors trying to move up. Alas, moving up in such
an organisation often is a result of random acts of violence, to prove how
hard they are.
It's annoying. The drug problem won't go away becuase of a few arrests. All
that the recent raids here have done is de-stabilise the streets. The whole
feel on this side of town has changed radically since then. Also, from what
I hear there hasn't been an interruption in the drug supply, just more
violence as people look to get promoted.
~misfit~
Cheers,
~misfit~
I'm hoping so, and that I'll never have to find out.
Roger Dewhurst
Perhaps you need a sword stick.
R
Roger Dewhurst
> On Jun 10, 1:07 pm, peterwn <pete...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>> On Jun 10, 12:38 pm, "~misfit~" <misfit6...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> So, does anyone know what the laws are in NZ concerning carrying knives such
>>> as these? I really wouldn't know where to look to find out but have seen
>>> people here quoting laws before, hoping for assistance...
>> See section 202A(4) of the Crimes Act:http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329710....
>>
>> (a) who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, has with
>> him in any public place any knife or offensive weapon or disabling
>> substance; or
>> (b) who has in his possession in any place any offensive weapon
>> or disabling substance in circumstances that prima facie show an
>> intention to use it to commit an offence involving bodily injury or
>> the threat or fear of violence.
>>
>> For (b) 'offensive weapon' would include a knife.
>>
>> Whether you are in breach of (a) would depend on the type of knife and
>> the circumstances under which you had the knife. You would need to
>> have some reasonable excuse for having the particular type of knife
>> and probably not carrying it in your hand unless it was in a bag, etc
>> or wrapped up to stop immediate deployment.
>>
>> For example someone engaging in a vigilante operation could be more
>> exposed to (a) than someone going about normal business.
>
> Serious question: self defence is a lawful activity. Could carrying
> for self-defence be considered?
That would have apply to firearms also. Apparently it does not! You
are not expected to defend yourself. You are however permitted to
telephone the police for assistance, particular so when you have no
telephone and you are surrounded by six thugs kicking the shit out of you.
R
Nicolaas Hawkins
wrote in <news:h0pknu$kde$1...@news.eternal-september.org>:
My understanding is that if you can prove that you are carrying such an item
for some lawful proper and sufficient purpose other than self-defence and
you happen to use it to defend yourself from attack, you are (sort of) in
the clear. (Well, out of the stygian into the murky.)
However, if you are carrying the item solely for the purpose of self-defence
then, as I understand it, it becomes an unlawful weapon because, prima
facie, your sole intention is to use it to inflict harm.
Peterwn may care to comment?
--
- Nicolaas
~misfit~
If I could find a good one that I could afford I most certainly would like
one. It's hard to disguise my katana as a walking stick. <g>
Oh well. I'm not afraid of the idiots and I think that they get that message
loud and clear. Subliminal signals and all that. (You don't survive long in
prison if you smell of fear.) They either leave me alone or give the
head-nod or head-raise recognition. It's just this power vacuum and
ethanol-impaired judgement may mean that the status quo could change. Also
there are more out-of-town Black Power members around of late and they don't
know me, or that I've been living in their midst for seven years. (I was the
only white guy in the street when I moved here.)
I shall carry my Gerber Fast Draw when I feel the need for now, especially
in the evenings or weekends. Maybe I need to whittle a small toy or a flute
and keep in my pocket so I can claim that's what I use the knife for if it
ever comes to the attention of the police?
Cheers,
~misfit~
So I need to take up whittling? It used to be a common pastime amongst my
father's generation, perhaps I can claim traditional rights?
> However, if you are carrying the item solely for the purpose of
> self-defence then, as I understand it, it becomes an unlawful weapon
> because, prima facie, your sole intention is to use it to inflict
> harm.
Actually my sole intent is to get the little pricks to think twice about
attacking me if it ever were to come to that. <shrug> It's not really a
problem, or on my mind as much as this thread would appear to show. It's
just that I impulse-bought a knife from Trademe and am unclear as to the
laws.
> Peterwn may care to comment?
Any and all comments welcome, the more informed the better.
Roger Dewhurst
Get a metre or so of straight bamboo 20 mm to 25 mm OD, a slightly
lesser length of 8mm OD stainless steel rod ground to a sharp point, a
nice bit of hardwood for a fancy handle and you are in business. I
assume that you have some basic tools to drill out the nodes and fix the
rod to the handle.
R
~misfit~
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> Perhaps you need a sword stick.
>>
>> If I could find a good one that I could afford I most certainly
>> would like one. It's hard to disguise my katana as a walking stick.
>> <g>
>
> Get a metre or so of straight bamboo 20 mm to 25 mm OD, a slightly
> lesser length of 8mm OD stainless steel rod ground to a sharp point, a
> nice bit of hardwood for a fancy handle and you are in business. I
> assume that you have some basic tools to drill out the nodes and fix
> the rod to the handle.
Hmmm, food for thought there Roger, thanks.
Most bamboo I've keot for any length of time splits and cracks, I wonder if
treating it with raw linseed oil would prevent that?
Roger Dewhurst
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>> ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>>> Perhaps you need a sword stick.
>>> If I could find a good one that I could afford I most certainly
>>> would like one. It's hard to disguise my katana as a walking stick.
>>> <g>
>> Get a metre or so of straight bamboo 20 mm to 25 mm OD, a slightly
>> lesser length of 8mm OD stainless steel rod ground to a sharp point, a
>> nice bit of hardwood for a fancy handle and you are in business. I
>> assume that you have some basic tools to drill out the nodes and fix
>> the rod to the handle.
>
> Hmmm, food for thought there Roger, thanks.
>
> Most bamboo I've keot for any length of time splits and cracks, I wonder if
> treating it with raw linseed oil would prevent that?
>
> Cheers,
Possibly. Polyurethane varnish? Decorative bindings? Paint?
Combinations thereof? The more decorative it is the better.
R