RNZAF Vulcan? (XH562)
Phillip Treweek
While going through some back issues of New Zealand Wings I found a
picture of a Vulcan wearing RNZAF roundels. The picture is in the June
1984 issue, and was apparently reprinted from March 1972. The Vulcan in
question is XH562 wearing the 2 tone upper/ 1 tone lower scheme, and the
RAF 9 Squadron bat on the tail. The aircraft is pictured doing a touch
and go at Hamilton airport. The aircraft in question is clearly wearing a
Royal New Zealand Air Force roundel (complete with Kiwi) on the nose.
Can anyone tell me anymore about how this came to be? I'd also be
interested in the location of any more pictures - talk about the best
excuse to build a model Vulcan!
Phil.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip Treweek
Department of Computer Science ph ++64 7 838 4410
The University of Waikato fax ++64 7 838 4155
Private Bag 3105
Hamilton, New Zealand
'Kiwi Aircraft Images':
http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.simplenet.com/aviation.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dweezil Dwarftosser
Treweek) wrote:
>Now here's one that should get Damien going. . .
>
>While going through some back issues of New Zealand Wings I found a
>picture of a Vulcan wearing RNZAF roundels. The picture is in the June
>1984 issue, and was apparently reprinted from March 1972. The Vulcan in
>question is XH562 wearing the 2 tone upper/ 1 tone lower scheme, and the
>RAF 9 Squadron bat on the tail. The aircraft is pictured doing a touch
>and go at Hamilton airport. The aircraft in question is clearly wearing a
>Royal New Zealand Air Force roundel (complete with Kiwi) on the nose.
>
>Can anyone tell me anymore about how this came to be? I'd also be
>interested in the location of any more pictures - talk about the best
>excuse to build a model Vulcan!
I know nothing of this incident...but I wouldn't be at all surprised
if a visiting RAF jet appeared one morning with NZ "graffiti" upon it.
It's a time-honored tradition. I've seen an entire squadron of
Spangdahlem jets mysteriously sport a Bitburger beer logo on the left
intake...one morning, shortly after the arrival of a squadron from
Bitburg.
- John T.
Bellerophone
>Now here's one that should get Damien going. . .
>
>While going through some back issues of New Zealand Wings I found a
>picture of a Vulcan wearing RNZAF roundels. The picture is in the June
>1984 issue, and was apparently reprinted from March 1972. The Vulcan in
>question is XH562 wearing the 2 tone upper/ 1 tone lower scheme, and the
>RAF 9 Squadron bat on the tail. The aircraft is pictured doing a touch
>and go at Hamilton airport. The aircraft in question is clearly wearing a
>Royal New Zealand Air Force roundel (complete with Kiwi) on the nose.
>
>Can anyone tell me anymore about how this came to be?
What happens is that the engine makes the plane go faster and faster
until the air rushing over the wings creates enough lift for it to
become airborne.
next question.
Bellerophone
Treweek) alleged:
>Now here's one that should get Damien going. . .
>
>While going through some back issues of New Zealand Wings I found a
>picture of a Vulcan wearing RNZAF roundels. The picture is in the June
>1984 issue, and was apparently reprinted from March 1972. The Vulcan in
>question is XH562 wearing the 2 tone upper/ 1 tone lower scheme, and the
>RAF 9 Squadron bat on the tail. The aircraft is pictured doing a touch
>and go at Hamilton airport. The aircraft in question is clearly wearing a
>Royal New Zealand Air Force roundel (complete with Kiwi) on the nose.
>
>Can anyone tell me anymore about how this came to be? I'd also be
>interested in the location of any more pictures - talk about the best
>excuse to build a model Vulcan!
>
keith.bunyan
and consequently spent some time at Ohakea being repaired.
David Wardley
Phillip Treweek <tre...@cs.waikato.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:treweek-0410...@gnome.cs.waikato.ac.nz...
snip
talk about the best
> excuse to build a model Vulcan!
>
> Phil.
>
I seem to recall that the Vulcan may be an easy model to get
started on. The fuselage is a symmetrical cylinder shape and may
be turned on a lathe.
Rgds
John Visser
some landing gear problems at Christchurch and I think had to do a
precautionary landing at Ohakea...
Cheers
John
"keith.bunyan" wrote:
--
John Visser Photography
Weddings, Parties, (almost) Anything...
http://www5.zipworld.com.au/~jv
Bruce Hoult
<j...@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
> NZ have never had Vulcans, but a very long time ago a visiting RAF Vulcan had
> some landing gear problems at Christchurch and I think had to do a
> precautionary landing at Ohakea...
Doing a touch-and-go at the opening of Rongatai it touched down short of
the tarmac and when it hit the end of the tarmac the undercarriage on one
side was pushed up through the wing (and fuel tank).
-- Bruce
Robin Klitscher
In article <brucehoult-04...@bruce.bgh>,
bruce...@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) wrote:
25 October 1959. Vulcan XH498. I have a five large B&W photographs of
the incident, right here. Two taken at Rongotai from near the
"Government Hangar" and aero club on the western side of the field,
looking toward Moa Point. Three at Ohakea later.
1. Touchdown near the southern lip of the runway, heading
north. Aircraft canted sharply left, right main gear and nose gear on
the runway, left main gear in collapse, left wingtip in contact with
the surface, plumes of dirt (and fuel?) trailing from the left
underwing near the gear housing and from the left wingtip.
2. Go-around. Aircraft just above the runway, engines
at high power (jet plumes refracting the backdrop), but flying wings
level, nose slightly up, looking like a mantis. Right main and nose
gear legs still extended, left main bogey trailing rearward at a
drunken angle. (Three Vampires are taxiing in the background; one
Bristol Freighter also on the ground, stage left.)
3, 4, 5. Shots after landing at Ohakea. Aircraft at rest on
right main gear, nose gear and left wingtip. On the grass, having
careened off the runway to the left toward the collapsed landing gear.
Right main and nose bogies well dug into the turf. Deep gouges in the
surface from the right main and nose bogies, curving left off the
runway. The furrows narrowly miss a runway distance marker board
(which has splotches of mud sticking to it, thrown up by the expensive
plough as it swept by). A similar, more delicate curve in the grass
witnesses where the left wingtip has been. The tip itself doesn't look
all that terribly damaged, but is definitely in need of expert TLC in
the metal shop. The upper surface speedbrakes are still fully
extended. A sadly limp braking parachute provides telling punctuation,
trailing sideways from the tailcone along the ground like a surprised
exclamation mark.
The Vulcan was repaired at Ohakea over the next several months, and was
eventually flown home.
An infamous air show, that one. The Vulcan had been preceded by a
Sunderland flying-boat doing a passing fair emulation of a landplane on
the pristine new runway, and the Vampire aerobatic team came within a
gnat's whisker of doing itself a mischief on the Miramar Peninsula.
--
Robin Klitscher
Wellington ("Harbour City") NZ
Damien Burke
Treweek) wrote:
>Now here's one that should get Damien going. . .
;)
It was zapped by some naughty Kiwis. I've seen a couple of shots of it
in a book but can't find it right now.
Someone really should start up a web site on this sort of thing. I've
seen pictures of USAF and RAF Phantoms with RN markings or 'FLY NAVY'
titling applied, heard about a Vulcan comprehensively zapped with 56 Sqn
RAF markings, etc. Be nice to see all this sort of mucking about on
display somewhere...
>Can anyone tell me anymore about how this came to be? I'd also be
>interested in the location of any more pictures - talk about the best
>excuse to build a model Vulcan!
You need an excuse?
--
Damien Burke (add 'k' to end of address if replying)
British military aircraft site: http://www.totavia.com/jetman/
Damien Burke
wrote:
>In article <37F867CF...@zipworld.com.au>, John Visser
><j...@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
>
>> NZ have never had Vulcans, but a very long time ago a visiting RAF Vulcan had
>> some landing gear problems at Christchurch and I think had to do a
>> precautionary landing at Ohakea...
>
>Doing a touch-and-go at the opening of Rongatai it touched down short of
>the tarmac and when it hit the end of the tarmac the undercarriage on one
>side was pushed up through the wing (and fuel tank).
All on display in one of the Vulcan picture galleries on my web site,
URL below.
LesB
>Someone really should start up a web site on this sort of thing. I've
>seen pictures of USAF and RAF Phantoms with RN markings or 'FLY NAVY'
>titling applied, heard about a Vulcan comprehensively zapped with 56 Sqn
>RAF markings, etc. Be nice to see all this sort of mucking about on
>display somewhere...
That is a good idea. Zapping was mostly done when aircraft visited
other units (obviously) but very rarely lasted longer than the trip
back to base. As it was such a temporary event, it was generally not
officially recorded although I bet hundreds of guys have personal
pictures of zaps - where are they all?
On the Canberra Strike Sqds zapping reached a definite art level -
with poems! One that I have on my site may bring a laugh - a 16Sqd
B(I)8 got stuck at Bruggen, home of 213Sqd and their B(I)6s, for an
engine change. This was just after an inter-squadron bombing
competition at Nordhorn. The poem, painted on the engine cowling by
the 213 guys, was pithy and to the point. Their *Bee* crest is also
shown holding a pen. Have a look at :
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~lesb/xm268ode.html
LesB
{take out one to mail}
EE Canberra Tribute Site
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~lesb/canberra.html
LesB
>Now that makes me wonder - I could NEVER forget the the Olympus
>powered Canberra at Farnborough........circa 195????, 'used to go
>every year! That was a test bed for those engines. It just went
>UP.....and the "crackle" was incredible. How the time flies!
>rgds
That was WD952 - a B.2. Fitted, by Bristols, with two Olympus 99s
rated at 8,000 lb st. They were actually Bristol B.O11/2Bs rated at
9,750 lb st but de-rated due to the Canberra airframe limitations.
First flight was August 1952. On 4 May 1953, this Canberra
established a world record altitude of 63,668 feet Then took it again
to 65,876 feet. WD952 crashed on 12 March 1956.
Enkidu
>
> This would be the Vulcan that went a bit too low at an airshow
> at Rongotai and consequently spent some time at Ohakea being
> repaired.
>
in Bristol, they were also developing the Olympus engines that
went in the thing. They used an old Vulcan as a flying testbed,
so we used to see the Vulcan go over with a whopping great big
white engine slung underneath one wing. It was a strange looking
combination. Rumour has it that there were only so many tyres
left for the Vulcan, and pilots used to pray that they didn't blow
one on landing!
Cheers,
Cliff
--
Cliff Pratt, CAP Consulting
Web build, web design. HTML, Javascript, CGI, ASP, Web Consulting
Email: enk...@cliffs.co.nz Phone: 025 246 7747
David Wardley
Enkidu <Cliff...@vuw.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:37F91097...@vuw.ac.nz...
snip
> To go off on a bit of a tangent, when they were building
Concorde
> in Bristol, they were also developing the Olympus engines that
> went in the thing. They used an old Vulcan as a flying testbed,
> so we used to see the Vulcan go over with a whopping great big
> white engine slung underneath one wing. It was a strange
looking
> combination.
snip
> Cheers,
>
> Cliff
Ted Harrison
Bruce Hoult <bruce...@pobox.com> wrote
>
> > NZ have never had Vulcans, but a very long time ago a visiting RAF Vulcan
had
> > some landing gear problems at Christchurch and I think had to do a
> > precautionary landing at Ohakea...
>
> Doing a touch-and-go at the opening of Rongatai it touched down short of
> the tarmac and when it hit the end of the tarmac the undercarriage on one
> side was pushed up through the wing (and fuel tank).
A Vulcan was lost on approach to its home base on return to England
after a flyover of Adelaide in the late fifties.
Was this the same aircraft --- and the same crew?
I seem to recall someone senior died in that crash ... an Air Commodore
perhaps.
Chris
Saw it do a fly past at Woodbourne.. on final approach, had all flaps,
gear extended at a (very) low power setting.. retracted all, went to max
power and was last seen climbing vertically.. a memorable sight!
Cheers
Chris
Phillip Treweek wrote:
>
> Now here's one that should get Damien going. . .
>
> While going through some back issues of New Zealand Wings I found a
> picture of a Vulcan wearing RNZAF roundels. The picture is in the June
> 1984 issue, and was apparently reprinted from March 1972. The Vulcan in
> question is XH562 wearing the 2 tone upper/ 1 tone lower scheme, and the
> RAF 9 Squadron bat on the tail. The aircraft is pictured doing a touch
> and go at Hamilton airport. The aircraft in question is clearly wearing a
> Royal New Zealand Air Force roundel (complete with Kiwi) on the nose.
>
> Can anyone tell me anymore about how this came to be? I'd also be
> interested in the location of any more pictures - talk about the best
> excuse to build a model Vulcan!
>
> Phil.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Phillip Treweek
> Department of Computer Science ph ++64 7 838 4410
> The University of Waikato fax ++64 7 838 4155
> Private Bag 3105
> Hamilton, New Zealand
>
> 'Kiwi Aircraft Images':
> http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.simplenet.com/aviation.html
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
------------------------------------------
e-mail reply address [replace the obvious]
------------------------------------------
erlbeck [AT] ihug [DOT] co [DOT] nz
David Wardley
David Wardley <dwar...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:7t9hr1
Oh dear,
>
> I seem to recall that the Vulcan may be an easy model to get
> started on. The fuselage is a symmetrical cylinder shape and
may
> be turned on a lathe.
>
> Rgds
>
I've just checked - it is the VALIANT that has such symmetry!
Still, Valiant fuselage - Vulcan wings - still fly!!
Sorry 'bout that.
Rgds
Dweezil Dwarftosser
>Damien Burke wrote:
>
>>Someone really should start up a web site on this sort of thing. I've
>>seen pictures of USAF and RAF Phantoms with RN markings or 'FLY NAVY'
>>titling applied, heard about a Vulcan comprehensively zapped with 56 Sqn
>>RAF markings, etc. Be nice to see all this sort of mucking about on
>>display somewhere...
>
>That is a good idea. Zapping was mostly done when aircraft visited
>other units (obviously) but very rarely lasted longer than the trip
>back to base. As it was such a temporary event, it was generally not
>officially recorded although I bet hundreds of guys have personal
>pictures of zaps - where are they all?
Sometimes it can get a little elaborate. As Bitburg was transitioning
from F-4s to F-15s (through about February '77) the wing commander
made Brigadier while he was off learning how to fly the new jet.
Upon return, the Vice Commander gave him a hard time about no longer
being qualified in the F-4.
Eventually, the big day came, when the Vice CC would ferry out the
"last F-4 at Bitburg" to Hahn. Amid flags and bands playing, he
taxied out...only to see another of "our" F-4s sitting on the far end
of the ramp, still proudly displaying "BT" on the tail.
The Old Man had arranged for one to be flown back from Hahn, where the
"HR" was hastily over-painted with its former home, "BT".
- John T.
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Ted Harrison wrote:
> A Vulcan was lost on approach to its home base on return to England
> after a flyover of Adelaide in the late fifties.
>
> Was this the same aircraft --- and the same crew?
>
> I seem to recall someone senior died in that crash ... an Air Commodore
> perhaps.
I forget the details but one was lost at Heathrow as it arrived home from a round
the world tour. The high-ranking pilot and the co-pilot punched out and the
unfortunates downstairs who didn't have ejection seats died in the crash. I
believe their families were in attendance for the arrival.
As I said, the details are fuzzy, but I think that the gist of the story is
correct. Having moved recently, not everything's unpacked and available yet,
otherwise I could have checked a few references first.
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Ken Duffey
> "keith.bunyan" wrote:
> >
> > This would be the Vulcan that went a bit too low at an airshow
> > at Rongotai and consequently spent some time at Ohakea being
> > repaired.
> >
> To go off on a bit of a tangent, when they were building Concorde
> in Bristol, they were also developing the Olympus engines that
> went in the thing. They used an old Vulcan as a flying testbed,
> so we used to see the Vulcan go over with a whopping great big
> white engine slung underneath one wing. It was a strange looking
> combination. Rumour has it that there were only so many tyres
> left for the Vulcan, and pilots used to pray that they didn't blow
> one on landing!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cliff
> --
> Cliff Pratt, CAP Consulting
> Web build, web design. HTML, Javascript, CGI, ASP, Web Consulting
> Email: enk...@cliffs.co.nz Phone: 025 246 7747
Can we just acknowledge that the Olympus is a BRISTOL engines design -
not Rolls-Royce.
(Actually its Bristol-Siddley - all now absorbed into RR)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers - http://www.lindenhillimports.com/flankers.htm
S-37 Model - http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5634/
Genuine E-mailers - remove the x after uk
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
David Elliston
>
>Can we just acknowledge that the Olympus is a BRISTOL engines design -
>not Rolls-Royce.
>
>(Actually its Bristol-Siddley - all now absorbed into RR)
>
name is Bristol-Siddeley.
Jonathan Mock
>
> >Now here's one that should get Damien going. . .
>
>
> It was zapped by some naughty Kiwis. I've seen a couple of shots of it
> in a book but can't find it right now.
>
> seen pictures of USAF and RAF Phantoms with RN markings or 'FLY NAVY'
> titling applied, heard about a Vulcan comprehensively zapped with 56 Sqn
> RAF markings, etc. Be nice to see all this sort of mucking about on
> display somewhere...
>
> >interested in the location of any more pictures - talk about the best
> >excuse to build a model Vulcan!
>
> --
> Damien Burke (add 'k' to end of address if replying)
> British military aircraft site: http://www.totavia.com/jetman/
There was another Vulcan that was zapped by the Canadians was well - I've
got a pic of that kicking around somewhere.
--
Jonathan Mock
³Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice, and fear, walk hand in hand...²
Brian Dooley
>"keith.bunyan" wrote:
>>
>> This would be the Vulcan that went a bit too low at an airshow
>> at Rongotai and consequently spent some time at Ohakea being
>> repaired.
>>
>To go off on a bit of a tangent, when they were building Concorde
>in Bristol, they were also developing the Olympus engines that
>went in the thing. They used an old Vulcan as a flying testbed,
>so we used to see the Vulcan go over with a whopping great big
>white engine slung underneath one wing. It was a strange looking
>combination. Rumour has it that there were only so many tyres
>left for the Vulcan, and pilots used to pray that they didn't blow
>one on landing!
>
>Cheers,
~~~~~~
If they had blown a tyre, there certainly would have been a
cheer. At least that was what happened when a Canberra blew the
lot at Ohakea by touching down with the parking brskes on.
I had a grandstand view because just before it happened I had my
head through the forward hatch and I heard boom, boum, boom, and
pulling my head out I saw the Canberra skating around and finally
pulling onto the grass. All of which was greeted by an
enthusiastic cheer on the part of all hands as the crash crew
went charging out.
Ironically only a few weeks before, while in the station
barber's, I had heard the pilot say that the first one to prang a
Canberra would be flying a desk for the rest of his service.
I don't know whether he did though.
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
Charlie Lister
>
>A Vulcan was lost on approach to its home base on return to England
>after a flyover of Adelaide in the late fifties.
>
>Was this the same aircraft --- and the same crew?
>
>I seem to recall someone senior died in that crash ... an Air Commodore
>perhaps.
With all credit to Tim Laming V Bombers ISBN 1 85260 529 4
Published Patrick Stephens Ltd, Sparkford, eovil, Somerset UK BA22 7JJ
XA 897 Vulcan B1 delivered 20 July 1956
Fitted with Green satin, NBS, Blue devil bombsight, Gee Mk 3, Marconi radio
Compass, Rad Alt, Air Mileage Unit, Periscopic Sextant, ILS.
Departed Boscombe Down 9 Sept 1956
Operation Tasman Flight
Captain - Sqn Ldr Donald Howard
Co - Air Marshall Sir Harry Broadhurst
Other crew:
Sqn Ldrs Albert gamble, Edward eames and James Stroud (also a pilot). Rumble
seat - Avro rep Frederick Basset
Outbound via Aden, Singapore, Melbourne - round via Adelaide - Sydney -
Flew to Christchurch NZ 18 Sept 1956
Return trip via Brisbane, Darwin, Singapore, Ceylon,
Final leg Aden - London take off 0250Z 1 October 1956
VIP reception arranged at Heathrow
Wx on arrival: vis. <1100 yds, heavy rain, w/v l&v, Cloud 8 Octare at 700
ft, 2 Octare 300 ft
The option to divert was declined.
A PAR approach was commenced at 1500'
The aircraft approached normally, being 80' high at 3/4 mile, but hit the
ground at 2000' short of the runway.
Full power was applied, at 800' the captain, and Broadhurst ejected, the
aircraft was seen to roll to starboard and impact with explosion on the
runway at Heathrow, killing the rear crew.
Avro Chief Aerodynamicist found the undercarriage missing at the crash site
and found it at a point 250' off the centreline where the aircraft had hit
the ground , wheels down.
The undercarriage has been fractured with such force that the struts swung
back and irretrievably damaged the aerodynamic surfaces (elevons)
A Court of Inquiry , published on 20 December 1956, concluded that as the
aircraft was under GCA control, the failure of the controller to warn the
aircraft of its low height was the principle cause.
However, the subsequent investigation suggested that the aircraft captain
descended below his decision height of 300' without visual contact of the
runway. Scurrilous rumour implied that the crew were under pressure to
'perform' for the VIPs, but this was never substantiated.
A sad phase in history, the outcome of which was the V Bombers never did
have rear crew escape systems ( if you exclude the pressure cushions in the
Victor) due to no money, and the later Canberra marks had Navigator bang
seats.
LesB
>A sad phase in history, the outcome of which was the V Bombers never did
>have rear crew escape systems ( if you exclude the pressure cushions in the
>Victor) due to no money,
Truly a sad event and a sad time.
> and the later Canberra marks had Navigator bang seats.
Except the B(I)8s. The nav only had an airbrake door and was expected
to fall out the main entrance door. The pilot was supposed to put the
kite in to an acceptable *attitude* so that his nav could get out.
Danger was in hitting the stbd engine intake or wing. Ron Ledwidge (3
Sqd) is, I think, the only B(I)8 pilot to have successfully got his
nav out before he managed to get the kite down onto foam at Manston.
Ron walked away also.
Phillip Treweek
> In article <brucehoult-04...@bruce.bgh>,
> bruce...@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) wrote:
>
> >In article <37F867CF...@zipworld.com.au>, John Visser
> ><j...@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >> NZ have never had Vulcans, but a very long time ago a visiting RAF
Vulcan had
> >> some landing gear problems at Christchurch and I think had to do a
> >> precautionary landing at Ohakea...
> >
> >Doing a touch-and-go at the opening of Rongatai it touched down short of
> >the tarmac and when it hit the end of the tarmac the undercarriage on one
> >side was pushed up through the wing (and fuel tank).
> >
>
> 25 October 1959. Vulcan XH498. I have a five large B&W photographs of
> the incident, right here. Two taken at Rongotai from near the
> "Government Hangar" and aero club on the western side of the field,
> looking toward Moa Point. Three at Ohakea later.
>
Wow, I think this must be the busiest thread I've ever started. As to the
Rongotai Vulcan - I'm well familiar with the incident - my Dad has a peace
of the wingtip at home - courtesy of his brother who was in firecrew at
Ohakea at that time.
Getting back to XH562 - was it zapped on both sides? The picture I have
only shows thestarboard side - was there one on the port side as well?.
As to Damiens' suggestion of a 'zaps' collection - great idea! Who's
volunteering?
Ted Harrison
Charlie Lister <chassp...@private-treatment-centre.co.uk> wrote:
> Full power was applied, at 800' the captain, and Broadhurst ejected, the
> aircraft was seen to roll to starboard and impact with explosion on the
> runway at Heathrow, killing the rear crew.
Thanks, Charlie. Much obliged.
iba...@my-deja.com
> picture of a Vulcan wearing RNZAF roundels. The picture is in the
June
> 1984 issue, and was apparently reprinted from March 1972. The Vulcan
in
> question is XH562 wearing the 2 tone upper/ 1 tone lower scheme, and
the
> RAF 9 Squadron bat on the tail. The aircraft is pictured doing a
touch
> and go at Hamilton airport. The aircraft in question is clearly
wearing a
> Royal New Zealand Air Force roundel (complete with Kiwi) on the nose.
>
> interested in the location of any more pictures - talk about the best
> excuse to build a model Vulcan!
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Phillip Treweek
> Department of Computer Science ph ++64 7 838 4410
> The University of Waikato fax ++64 7 838 4155
> Private Bag 3105
> Hamilton, New Zealand
>
> 'Kiwi Aircraft Images':
> http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.simplenet.com/aviation.html
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
I know the picture you are talking about. The aircraft had been
participating in a good will tour/military exercise in New zealand and
the New Zealand ground crew decided that they were going to have some
fun with the aircraft and marked it as a RNZAF Vulcan!
The Captain was not a happy man!
Best regards
Tony Inkster
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
LesB
>Mike Cleaver
>Canberra. Australia (not the English Electric one! - which was named after
>the national capital, of course)
Yeah, but the ploy it worked didn't! Aus did go on to buy (and make)
the EE one. ;-)
Mike Cleaver
David Elliston wrote
However, Ken was correct, as the Olympus was designed and first built by
Bristol Aero Engines before they merged with Armstrong-Siddeley, and long
before B-S was taken over by R-R.
I seem to recall that the Armstrong-Siddeley engine of the era was the
Sapphire and that it may have powered the Valiant (Vickers, of course) -
what a rich heritage of names now lost to aviation, while the Olympus
powered the (Avro) Vulcan after Avons were used in early prototypes. What
powerplant did they use in the (Handley-Page) Victor?
Lyndon Watson
> However, Ken was correct, as the Olympus was designed and first built by
> Bristol Aero Engines before they merged with Armstrong-Siddeley, and long
> before B-S was taken over by R-R.
Which reminds me that Rolls-Royce (the original one, not the car company
started in the 70s) could always get back into the car business if they
wanted to, since by acquisition they own the Armstrong-Siddeley and
Napier marques - the latter much more prestigious than Bentley in its
time.
> I seem to recall that the Armstrong-Siddeley engine of the era was the
> Sapphire and that it may have powered the Valiant (Vickers, of course) -
> what a rich heritage of names now lost to aviation, while the Olympus
> powered the (Avro) Vulcan after Avons were used in early prototypes. What
> powerplant did they use in the (Handley-Page) Victor?
And talking about the rich heritage of lost names, it seems that their
faceless successor, BAe, is realising its value - aren't they now
selling some aircraft under the Avro name? I guess that Vickers could
revive their name (and Supermarine) if they decided to start building
aircraft again.
LW
Ken Duffey
> David Elliston wrote
> >Ken Duffey <k...@nerc.ac.uk> wrote:
> >>Can we just acknowledge that the Olympus is a BRISTOL engines >>design -
> not Rolls-Royce.
> >>
> >>(Actually its Bristol-Siddley - all now absorbed into RR)
> >>
> >Well,..... actually, to to correct, the spelling of the former company
> >name is Bristol-Siddeley.
>
> However, Ken was correct, as the Olympus was designed and first built by
> Bristol Aero Engines before they merged with Armstrong-Siddeley, and long
> before B-S was taken over by R-R.
>
> I seem to recall that the Armstrong-Siddeley engine of the era was the
> Sapphire and that it may have powered the Valiant (Vickers, of course) -
> what a rich heritage of names now lost to aviation, while the Olympus
> powered the (Avro) Vulcan after Avons were used in early prototypes. What
> powerplant did they use in the (Handley-Page) Victor?
>
> Mike Cleaver
> Canberra. Australia (not the English Electric one! - which was named after
> the national capital, of course)
IIRC - the HP Victor had RR Conways - and the only other application of this
engine I can think of is the BAC VC-10 (and didn't some BOAC 707's have it as
well ?)
ANDREW BREEN
>Mike Cleaver wrote:
>> powered the (Avro) Vulcan after Avons were used in early prototypes. What
>> powerplant did they use in the (Handley-Page) Victor?
>
>engine I can think of is the BAC VC-10 (and didn't some BOAC 707's have it as
>well ?)
Yep. Victor had Conways.
What was the engine used in the Short Brothers V-bomber - the Short Sperrin,
IIRC?
I have a sort of idea it used two Avons, paired vertically above and
below the wing spar, but others will know much more on this.
--
Andy Breen ~ PPARC Advanced Research Fellow
Solar Physics Group, U-W Aberystwyth
"Usenet should require licenses;
licenses that can be revoked." (Abigail, in s.d.m.)
Ken Duffey
Now there is an interesting offshoot thread - how many a/c had twin jets paired
vertically ??
E.E. Lightning
Short Sperrin
French Grognard (manufacturer ?)
Sukhoi Su-8 (I think it was an eight - early jet bomber design)
Anymore ??
--
gmp...@eclipse.net
off from the world of jet engines by the USAF who favored GE & PW,
bought the rights to it from B-S. Eventually it was used, inter alia, in
the A4 which Argentina, Singapore and Malaysia flew when the USNavy was
finished with them. I bought almost all the J65's that were sold
surplus by the US DoD and either parted them out, sold them outright or,
before retiring, scrapped them. Also manufactured the blades and vanes
- both turbine and compressor for that old engine. The compressor
design for the Sapphire, I was told, was so successful that it was used
in the Avon. Jim Williams,
ERIC OLSON
I believe the original Boeing 707-400 series had RR Conway engines. Over
their service lives, it's not uncommon for aircraft to be re-engined, so
most if not all of the surviving B707-400 aircraft probably do not have the
Conways mounted. Eric O....
James Matthew Weber
>
>>IIRC - the HP Victor had RR Conways - and the only other application of this
>>engine I can think of is the BAC VC-10 (and didn't some BOAC 707's have it as
>>well ?)
The 707-420 family had Conways, and there were several operators,
including BOAC and Air India.
Jonathan Stilwell
Ken Duffey wrote in message <37FC4DD5...@nerc.ac.uk>...
>Mike Cleaver wrote:
>> I seem to recall that the Armstrong-Siddeley engine of the era was the
>> Sapphire and that it may have powered the Valiant (Vickers, of course) -
>> what a rich heritage of names now lost to aviation, while the Olympus
What
>> powerplant did they use in the (Handley-Page) Victor?
>
this
>engine I can think of is the BAC VC-10 (and didn't some BOAC 707's have it
as
>well ?)
The Mk.1 Victor had AS Sapphires while the Mk.2 had Rolls Royce RB.80
Conways. The Mk.1 Vickers Valiant had Avon engines.
Other Conway users were indeed the VC-10, Boeing 707-400 series and the DC-8
Series 40, as used by TCA / Air Canada, Alitalia and Canadian Pacific. It
was also to have been used in the Vickers V.1000 / VC-7, and was tested
under an Avro Ashton.
Jon.
Brian Dooley
On Tue, 05 Oct 1999 23:04:57 GMT, one...@netcomuk.co.uk (LesB)
wrote:
>Charlie Lister wrote:
>
>>A sad phase in history, the outcome of which was the V Bombers never did
>>have rear crew escape systems ( if you exclude the pressure cushions in the
>>Victor) due to no money,
>
>Truly a sad event and a sad time.
>
>> and the later Canberra marks had Navigator bang seats.
>
>Except the B(I)8s. The nav only had an airbrake door and was expected
>to fall out the main entrance door. The pilot was supposed to put the
>kite in to an acceptable *attitude* so that his nav could get out.
>Danger was in hitting the stbd engine intake or wing. Ron Ledwidge (3
>Sqd) is, I think, the only B(I)8 pilot to have successfully got his
>nav out before he managed to get the kite down onto foam at Manston.
>Ron walked away also.
I can't remember the mark of the RNZAF Canberras, but I would
have thought it was higher than B(I)8. Anyway they certainly
didn't have a bang seat. They had a bubble (or whatever) high on
the port side and well back, for the pilot, and the navigator
took off and landed in a seat more or less at the pilot's feet
but to starboard.
The navigator worked at a bench to port under the electronics
controls and had a bomb aimer's position in the nose. I have
often laid in the nose while checking the intercomm, and very
exposed I felt - and we were on the ground. The nav must have
felt extremely uncomfortable while doing a bombing run: a real
hub-cap position.
As far as I can remember the RNZAF only lost one (leased from the
RAF) Canberra, over Malaysia. The pilot banged out but the nav
didn't clear the aircraft and was (I think) found in the
wreckage.
The pilot later turned up at Ohakea and was the guy who pulled me
up for not wearing a hat. I said that we didn't wear hats on a
jet tarmac, so he said "Oh, well fasten up your dustcoat then".
Phillip Treweek
(Brian Dooley) wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Oct 1999 23:04:57 GMT, one...@netcomuk.co.uk (LesB)
> wrote:
>
> >Charlie Lister wrote:
> >
> >>A sad phase in history, the outcome of which was the V Bombers never did
> >>have rear crew escape systems ( if you exclude the pressure cushions in the
> >>Victor) due to no money,
> >
> >Truly a sad event and a sad time.
> >
> >> and the later Canberra marks had Navigator bang seats.
> >
> >Except the B(I)8s. The nav only had an airbrake door and was expected
> >to fall out the main entrance door. The pilot was supposed to put the
> >kite in to an acceptable *attitude* so that his nav could get out.
> >Danger was in hitting the stbd engine intake or wing. Ron Ledwidge (3
> >Sqd) is, I think, the only B(I)8 pilot to have successfully got his
> >nav out before he managed to get the kite down onto foam at Manston.
> >Ron walked away also.
>
> I can't remember the mark of the RNZAF Canberras, but I would
> have thought it was higher than B(I)8. Anyway they certainly
> didn't have a bang seat. They had a bubble (or whatever) high on
> the port side and well back, for the pilot, and the navigator
> took off and landed in a seat more or less at the pilot's feet
> but to starboard.
The RNZAF operated the B(I)12 which was essentially an export B(I)8. The
differences were minor.
> The navigator worked at a bench to port under the electronics
> controls and had a bomb aimer's position in the nose. I have
> often laid in the nose while checking the intercomm, and very
> exposed I felt - and we were on the ground. The nav must have
> felt extremely uncomfortable while doing a bombing run: a real
> hub-cap position.
>
> As far as I can remember the RNZAF only lost one (leased from the
> RAF) Canberra, over Malaysia. The pilot banged out but the nav
> didn't clear the aircraft and was (I think) found in the
> wreckage.
>
Three aircraft were lost in RNZAF service. The one you mention was an RAF
machine (B.2 WF915) operated by 75SQN which lost control and spun in
severe turbulance over northern Johore State on 26 October 1961. The pilot
F/L. Bevan was able to eject, but the navigator F/L. Finn was killed.
The others were NZ6101 and NZ6104. NZ6101 crashed on 2 November,1960
after losing power on approach to Christchurch International. The crew
escaped serious injury, but the aircraft was written off. The other wasn't
so lucky. NZ6104 crashed into the sea near Singapore on 13 November 1964
and the crew (F/L. Southgate and F/O. Thomson) were killed.
Brian Dooley
>Damien Burke wrote:
>
>>Someone really should start up a web site on this sort of thing. I've
>>seen pictures of USAF and RAF Phantoms with RN markings or 'FLY NAVY'
>>titling applied, heard about a Vulcan comprehensively zapped with 56 Sqn
>>RAF markings, etc. Be nice to see all this sort of mucking about on
>>display somewhere...
>
>That is a good idea. Zapping was mostly done when aircraft visited
>other units (obviously) but very rarely lasted longer than the trip
>back to base. As it was such a temporary event, it was generally not
>officially recorded although I bet hundreds of guys have personal
>pictures of zaps - where are they all?
>
>On the Canberra Strike Sqds zapping reached a definite art level -
>with poems! One that I have on my site may bring a laugh - a 16Sqd
>B(I)8 got stuck at Bruggen, home of 213Sqd and their B(I)6s, for an
>engine change. This was just after an inter-squadron bombing
>competition at Nordhorn. The poem, painted on the engine cowling by
>the 213 guys, was pithy and to the point. Their *Bee* crest is also
>shown holding a pen. Have a look at :
Allow me to enthrall you with the story of the Battle of Sangley
Point (1963), at a USN air station near Manila, on the occasion
of Exercise Sea Wheelbarrow (or some such, the real name of which
will be found in a book published last year about NZ seaplanes,
and I forget that title, but I bet either Robin Klitscher or
Brian Harmer, or both, bought a copy).
To proceed.
The air power available was a squadron of USN Marlins, three
Aussie Neptunes, and bringing up the rear, three RNZAF
Sunderlands (we shall not see their like again).
The RNZAF troops were sweating it out in the crew room when in
walked a rigger chiefie by the name of Matt, and in one hand he
bore spray can and in the other he bore a stencil of a largish
kiwi. "C'mon youse jokers", he cried, "let us go and zap the
Ockers", or words to that effect.
It being a stinking hot day, he was greeted by cries of derision,
but he kept at it until I, being a sucker for the slightly
retarded (as riggers are bound to be - it's cleaning out the
toilets that does it), said I would hold the ladder for him, and
where was it? Oh, we'll borrow that off the Aussies, he said. So
we traipsed across to the Australian hangar, where the cheeky sod
asked to borrow a step ladder - and to cries of "bonzer", "good
on ya", "go for your life" and other Australasian pleasantries we
parted on mutual good terms, me carrying the ladder.
Five minutes later the deed was done and the Neptunes each had a
kiwi stenciled on the nose, and we returned the ladder, once
again with expressions of mutual good will.
Which didn't last long I fear.
Because the Ockers went bloody mad - especially since they
couldn't get at the Sunderlands, which were anchored in the
stream. So they vented their spleen, in the shape of kangaroos,
on the Marlin squadron, who replied in kind and also had a go at
the Coast Guard and the Marines, and within a couple of days
everything that moved (eg all the vehicles on station) and some
things that didn't (such as the water tower) were covered in
various insignia, all except the Sunderlands, which led a charmed
life until an underarm bit of bribery and corruption produced a
boat at dead of night.
The following day the Sunderlands were to be seen with a row of
kangaroos which started at the bow and went right around to
finish at the bow again.
The exercise finished with the Marlin skipper demanding a bigger
kiwi than anybody else, and an Aus vs NZ test match, which of
course Oz won, and a visit to a US submarine at the invitation of
a drunken torpedo gunner's mate, who lost his balance while
showing us the three air pressure systems used for blowing the
tanks.
Have you ever been inside a submarine which is tied up in the
trots when the diving klaxon goes off?
jacko
<jmw...@goodnet.com> wrote:
>The 707-420 family had Conways, and there were several operators,
>including BOAC and Air India.
And Varig and Lufthansa.
The current and next issue of a mag 'Jets'(?) have a detailed history
of the Conway 707s.
jacko
Geoff Miller
Jonathan Stilwell" <j...@teamonster.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
[ RR Conway ]
> It was also to have been used in the Vickers V.1000 / VC-7,
> and was tested under an Avro Ashton.
Was the Avro Ashton a license-built version of Canadair's
Jetliner prototype? If it's the airplane I'm thinking of,
it's a virtual clone of the Jetliner. Unfortunately I was
unable to find a photo of it on the Web, and I've never
seen pictures of the two aircraft side by side.
Geoff
--
"It takes a special kind of retard to be offended so easily."
-- Adam Thrasher
Brian Dooley
>In article <380a03f2...@news.clear.net.nz>, bri...@clear.net.nz
>(Brian Dooley) wrote:
snip--
>> I can't remember the mark of the RNZAF Canberras, but I would
>> have thought it was higher than B(I)8. Anyway they certainly
>> didn't have a bang seat. They had a bubble (or whatever) high on
>> the port side and well back, for the pilot, and the navigator
>> took off and landed in a seat more or less at the pilot's feet
>> but to starboard.
>
>The RNZAF operated the B(I)12 which was essentially an export B(I)8. The
>differences were minor.
Tah.
>> The navigator worked at a bench to port under the electronics
>> controls and had a bomb aimer's position in the nose. I have
>> often laid in the nose while checking the intercomm, and very
>> exposed I felt - and we were on the ground. The nav must have
>> felt extremely uncomfortable while doing a bombing run: a real
>> hub-cap position.
>>
>> As far as I can remember the RNZAF only lost one (leased from the
>> RAF) Canberra, over Malaysia. The pilot banged out but the nav
>> didn't clear the aircraft and was (I think) found in the
>> wreckage.
>>
>
>Three aircraft were lost in RNZAF service. The one you mention was an RAF
>machine (B.2 WF915) operated by 75SQN which lost control and spun in
>severe turbulance over northern Johore State on 26 October 1961. The pilot
>F/L. Bevan was able to eject,
That's the one. Cocky little bugger as I remember, and not
terribly well-liked, whereas...
>[but] the navigator F/L. Finn was killed.
appeared to be well thought of among those who knew him.
>
>The others were NZ6101 and NZ6104. NZ6101 crashed on 2 November,1960
>after losing power on approach to Christchurch International. The crew
>escaped serious injury, but the aircraft was written off. The other wasn't
>so lucky. NZ6104 crashed into the sea near Singapore on 13 November 1964
>and the crew (F/L. Southgate and F/O. Thomson) were killed.
Now you remind me, I do remember 01. How clever of you. But 04
happened after my time and I was out of the country.
Ah, memories, memories. I would have worked on them all. Many's
the time I've taken a blast up the kilt from a turning Canberra.
LesB
>
>Was the Avro Ashton a license-built version of Canadair's
>Jetliner prototype?
No, it was a development from the Avro Tudor. The Ashton was intended
for high-altitude research and was powered by four RR Nenes, each pair
housed side by side in a single engine nacelle under each wing. Six
examples were built.
> Unfortunately I was unable to find a photo of it on the Web, and I've never
>seen pictures of the two aircraft side by side.
Can mail you a pic of the Ashton if you want.
mcpete
> Allow me to enthrall you with the story of the Battle of Sangley
> Point (1963), at a USN air station near Manila, on the occasion
> of Exercise Sea Wheelbarrow (or some such, the real name of which
> will be found in a book published last year about NZ seaplanes,
> and I forget that title, but I bet either Robin Klitscher or
> Brian Harmer, or both, bought a copy).
Great story Brian:
At some point in the 1970's or 80's Sacramento Air Logistics Center
(ie the depot) worked up a shipment of new F-5's for the Royal Saudi Air
Force even down to protective wrapping like the a/c were double-skinned
fava beans. The planes were duely delivered by C-5A to Saudi and
off-loaded with much pomp and circumstance. Unfortunately some poor
soul unwrapped them and discovered they all had Israeli markings! Of
course the Saudis screamed at State Department and State screamed at the
Air Force.
The upshot was that double-checking for correct markings along with
security and access really increased.
Jim McDaniel
Brian Dooley
On 8 Oct 1999 20:03:03 GMT, geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller)
wrote:
>
>
>Jonathan Stilwell" <j...@teamonster.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>[ RR Conway ]
>
>> It was also to have been used in the Vickers V.1000 / VC-7,
>> and was tested under an Avro Ashton.
>
>
>Was the Avro Ashton a license-built version of Canadair's
>Jetliner prototype? If it's the airplane I'm thinking of,
>it's a virtual clone of the Jetliner. Unfortunately I was
>unable to find a photo of it on the Web, and I've never
>seen pictures of the two aircraft side by side.
I was born in Ashton (-under-Lyne that is) and was living in the
next town when the prototype Vulcan used to fly over accompanied
by three little deltas in formation.
Not exactly on topic, but who cares?
David Wardley
Brian Dooley <bri...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
snip
> Ah, memories, memories. I would have worked on them all. Many's
> the time I've taken a blast up the kilt from a turning
Canberra.
>
>
> Brian Dooley
>
Don't we love 'em. Did you ever over-prime a Mosquito and get
wrapped around the tailplane?
rgds
Don
What were the delta's? any idea.
regards
Don
Brian Dooley wrote in message <380ea52d...@news.clear.net.nz>...
John Mackesy
Don <dma...@camtech.net.au> wrote in message
news:cZAL3.467$D33...@ozemail.com.au...
> Brian
>
> What were the delta's? any idea.
>
> regards
> Don
>
Museum, Point Cook, Victoria, Australia. It was lovingly preserved in this
guys back yard, recently taken up residence in Museum.
John Mackesy
Niels Sampath
jac...@NOTRASHmy-deja.com "jacko" writes:
> On Thu, 07 Oct 1999 16:27:55 GMT, James Matthew Weber
> <jmw...@goodnet.com> wrote:
>
> >The 707-420 family had Conways, and there were several operators,
> >including BOAC and Air India.
>
> And Varig and Lufthansa.
And El Al.
--
Niels
Brian Dooley
On Sat, 9 Oct 1999 15:46:22 -0700, "Don" <dma...@camtech.net.au>
wrote:
>Brian
>
>What were the delta's? any idea.
At this distance in time I couldn't say for sure. Maybe Avro, but
possibly De Havilland. I'm sure there were three of them and they
flew in V formation, two off one wing and one off the other.
ANDREW BREEN
Geoff Miller <geo...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>Jonathan Stilwell" <j...@teamonster.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>[ RR Conway ]
>
>> It was also to have been used in the Vickers V.1000 / VC-7,
>> and was tested under an Avro Ashton.
>
>
>Was the Avro Ashton a license-built version of Canadair's
>Jetliner prototype? If it's the airplane I'm thinking of,
>it's a virtual clone of the Jetliner. Unfortunately I was
>unable to find a photo of it on the Web, and I've never
>seen pictures of the two aircraft side by side.
Jet version of the Avro Tudor piston-engined airliner, which
in turn used the Lancaster wing.
The Ashton was meant to go into service on European and Ireland
-Newfoundland transatlantic flights, but after a few Tudors were
lost on the South Atlantic service all the Ashtons were used as
unpressurised test-beds - if not for that the Ashton would have
been the first production jet airliner.
The wing was the Lancaster structure, but there were no engines
in the outboard positions. Instead, two Nenes were mounted in
a paired installation in the two inboard positions. One prototype
got Olympus in the outer positions, making it Britain's only
six-jet airliner (and giving it a rather startling level of
performance).
cowboy
They were the AVRO 707's , A,B and C
This is in the archive somewhere of recent times, one of them has been
in Melb for sale for many years and I think , recently acquired by a
museum, maybe the RAAF at Point Cook. If was flown by them for many
years at ARDU.
They wanted to look at delta wing aeroplanes because the Vulcan came out
to Melb in late 1956 flown by Air Vice Marshall Harry Brodhurst(rank???)
in an attempt to interest the RAAF in it as a bomber to replace the
Lincoln and augment the Canberra force.
It, the Vulcan crashed at Heathrow airport on the return flight while
attempting an ILS in fog. Touched down well short of the runway in a
field of cabbages that lookes like concrete in the poor vis. The two
pilots ejected and survived but the rest of crew were killed. An
enormous hu har ensued as the public found out that there were no
ejection seats fitted for the other crew members.
It was a fantastic thing to see in the air low level. In the summer in
the UK a group of enthusiasts have restored one for high speed runs
down long runways at certain air shows. Record the noise is the name of
the game. did i say noise, was my mouth out with soap, i meant music !!
cowboy
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Don Hills
>The wing was the Lancaster structure...
"That wing" had a long career. Wasn't it also used in the (Whitworth?) Argosy?
--
Don Hills (dmhills at ibmdotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
Brian Dooley
On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:02:45 GMT, cowboy <cow...@ram.net.au>
wrote:
>In article <381519cc...@news.clear.net.nz>,
> bri...@clear.net.nz (Brian Dooley) wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 9 Oct 1999 15:46:22 -0700, "Don" <dma...@camtech.net.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Brian
>> >
>> >What were the delta's? any idea.
>>
>> At this distance in time I couldn't say for sure. Maybe Avro, but
>> possibly De Havilland. I'm sure there were three of them and they
>> flew in V formation, two off one wing and one off the other.
>>
>> Brian Dooley
And they were possibly flying out of Woodford.
>
>They were the AVRO 707's , A,B and C
>This is in the archive somewhere of recent times, one of them has been
>in Melb for sale for many years and I think , recently acquired by a
>museum, maybe the RAAF at Point Cook. If was flown by them for many
>years at ARDU.
>They wanted to look at delta wing aeroplanes because the Vulcan came out
>to Melb in late 1956 flown by Air Vice Marshall Harry Brodhurst(rank???)
>in an attempt to interest the RAAF in it as a bomber to replace the
>Lincoln and augment the Canberra force.
>
>It, the Vulcan crashed at Heathrow airport on the return flight while
>attempting an ILS in fog. Touched down well short of the runway in a
>field of cabbages that lookes like concrete in the poor vis. The two
>pilots ejected and survived but the rest of crew were killed. An
>enormous hu har ensued as the public found out that there were no
>ejection seats fitted for the other crew members.
Fair's fair, it costs a lot of money to train a couple of pilots,
especially those with scrambled eggs. Eh, Robin?
>It was a fantastic thing to see in the air low level.
It was quite something just to walk under one, which I did seeral
times with the one at Ohakea - like walking under a football
paddock. The first time it took off, having been repaired (and
that was a heavy landing check if ever there was one) the whole
station turned out to watch, and the successful take-off and
landing was greeted with great applause on the part of all hands.
jacko
dmh...@ibm.net (Don Hills) wrote:
> In article <7tslo0$rqc$1...@osfa.aber.ac.uk>, a...@aber.ac.uk (ANDREW
BREEN) wrote:
> >The wing was the Lancaster structure...
>
> "That wing" had a long career. Wasn't it also used in the (Whitworth?)
Argosy?
>
And the wing actually had it's origin in the Lanc's twin engined
predecessor, the Manchester and already had it's span increased by some
ten per cent to accommodate the 4 Merlins/Hercules.
jacko
jacko
Amen to that - it made Spielberg's special effects look tame.
>In the summer in
>the UK a group of enthusiasts have restored one for high speed runs
>down long runways at certain air shows.
Start saving cowboy.
There is now talk that a Vulcan may fly again next season - maybe RIAT?
ANDREW BREEN
>In article <umvA4sga...@ibm.net>,
> dmh...@ibm.net (Don Hills) wrote:
>> In article <7tslo0$rqc$1...@osfa.aber.ac.uk>, a...@aber.ac.uk (ANDREW
>BREEN) wrote:
>> >The wing was the Lancaster structure...
>>
>> "That wing" had a long career. Wasn't it also used in the (Whitworth?)
>Argosy?
>>
>Don't know - but the Argosy had a span of 115 ft vs the Lancs 102 ft.
Could be a Lincoln wing - that had an increased span which (IIRC) was
in the 115' range.
>
>And the wing actually had it's origin in the Lanc's twin engined
>predecessor, the Manchester and already had it's span increased by some
>ten per cent to accommodate the 4 Merlins/Hercules.
Extra inner panel added, IIRC. The Lincoln/Shackleton had the longest
span wings. Can't off-and recall whether the Tudor/Ashton used the
Lancaster or the Lincoln wing.
Gord Beaman
>
>>It was a fantastic thing to see in the air low level.
>
>It was quite something just to walk under one, which I did seeral
>times with the one at Ohakea - like walking under a football
>paddock. The first time it took off, having been repaired (and
>that was a heavy landing check if ever there was one) the whole
>station turned out to watch, and the successful take-off and
>landing was greeted with great applause on the part of all hands.
>
>Brian Dooley
>Wellington New Zealand
I had a close look at one in Goose Bay Canada a lot of years ago...the crewchief who
was showing me around said, when I commented on the smooth tiny tires being so hard,
that the pressure was something over 400 PSI!...woohoo!...certainly is one gorgeous
piece of airflesh for sure!...
--
Gord Beaman
PEI, Canada
Vic Smith
wrote:
> >> "That wing" had a long career. Wasn't it also used in the (Whitworth?)
> >Argosy?
> >>
> >Don't know - but the Argosy had a span of 115 ft vs the Lancs 102 ft.
>
> Could be a Lincoln wing - that had an increased span which (IIRC) was
> in the 115' range.
To quote from Oliver Tapper's "Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft since 1913" :-
"Considerable design and development time was saved by the fortuitous fact
that the design parameters of the Argosy's wing were found to be almost
exactly he same as those of the existing Avro Shackleton. This basic wing
design was therefore adopted for the new aircraft ..."
Vic
--
E-mail to vics...@argonet.co.uk
Civil Aviation History Web Site at www.argonet.co.uk/users/vicsmith/
Using an Acorn Strong Arm RISC PC, the Connoisseurs Computer
Don Hills
Vic Smith <vics...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>To quote from Oliver Tapper's "Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft since 1913" :-
Ah, thanks, Vic. That makes sense. I knew there was some relationship,
but I read it so long ago I'd forgotten the details. Apparently memory
is the second thing to go with aging... I forget what the first one was.
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
iba...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <treweek-0410...@gnome.cs.waikato.ac.nz>,
> tre...@cs.waikato.ac.nz (Phillip Treweek) wrote:
> > Now here's one that should get Damien going. . .
> >
> > While going through some back issues of New Zealand Wings I found a
> > picture of a Vulcan wearing RNZAF roundels. The picture is in the
> June
> > 1984 issue, and was apparently reprinted from March 1972. The Vulcan
> in
> > question is XH562 wearing the 2 tone upper/ 1 tone lower scheme, and
> the
> > RAF 9 Squadron bat on the tail. The aircraft is pictured doing a
> touch
> > and go at Hamilton airport. The aircraft in question is clearly
> wearing a
> > Royal New Zealand Air Force roundel (complete with Kiwi) on the nose.
> >
> > Can anyone tell me anymore about how this came to be? I'd also be
> > interested in the location of any more pictures - talk about the best
> > excuse to build a model Vulcan!
Those naughty Kiwis stuck one of their roundels on the Mother Country's
purveyor of things that go boom. Ownership failed to transfer as a result.
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Aussies stuck a flourescent ornage kangaroo zap on the nose of a CAF CH-113A
Labrador, right under the noses of the 424 Squadron crew and SAR Techs. Now
CAF SAR Techs may not stand for military spit and polish and decorum, but
they know when they've been insulted, so they bided their time, then crawled
under the Aussies' Herk and applied 2-inch-wide masking type on the black
undesides, spelling out "WE (heart symbol) FAGS".
No one looks at the bottom of his Herk when preflighting said bird, so it
duly took off and headed, in a roundabout scenic fashion, for home. Two
PAANG A-10s joined up with it, the lead pilot, call sign "Scuz", nearly
peeing himself when he spotted the additional markings. (It might be noted
here that many Aussies tend to be a somewhat homophobic lot.) Scuz suggested
a few passes over the fair city of London, which our Aussie heroes agreed
was a fine idea.
They also flew over the City of Brotherly Love and later flew over San
Francisco, both in the course of conducting their mission in North America.
They then set out across the fair Pacific, arriving home with the additional
markings nearly unscathed.
My photos of the Herk and A-10s apparently still hang in the SAR Tech
section at 424 and I'm told that a photo also appeared in a new Zealand
aviation magazine with a suitable caption rubbing salt in the wounded pride
of the RAAF Herk crew.
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
John Eacott
Jeff Rankin-Lowe <sir...@on.aibn.com> wrote in message
news:3813E742...@on.aibn.com...
> Several years ago at the London (Ontario) International Air Show, some
evil
> Aussies stuck a flourescent ornage kangaroo zap on the nose of a CAF
CH-113A
> Labrador, right under the noses of the 424 Squadron crew and SAR Techs.
Now
> CAF SAR Techs may not stand for military spit and polish and decorum, but
> they know when they've been insulted, so they bided their time, then
crawled
> under the Aussies' Herk and applied 2-inch-wide masking type on the black
> undesides, spelling out "WE (heart symbol) FAGS".
>
> No one looks at the bottom of his Herk when preflighting said bird,
Snip
The aircrew habit of not looking too closely under an aircraft (quite
understandable, it's quite infradig to actually have to bend over to look at
something) did the RAF no good during the International SAR competition at
RNAS Lee on Solent, in 1972. After the RN won, there was a reasonable PU
through the evening, during which it seemed a fairly good idea to stick "Fly
Navy" in 4 ft high reflective tape across the belly of an RAF Whirlwind.
Said Whirlwind duly departed the next morning, happily leading a pair of
USAF Husky's on a PR flight down the River Thames. Apparently the front
page of the Daily Express the next day wasn't too well received in crab
messes across the country :-)
Then there was the Sea Vixen from 899 NAS, which returned to Eagle from RAAF
Pearce with RAAF roundels on the wings. Quite happily returned to the UK 6
months later, still with the kangaroo roundels in place!
--
John Eacott
The Helicopter Service Australia
Peter Kerwin
> Ted Harrison <ha...@nsw.bigpond.net.au> wrote, again and again, once again:
> This time Outlook Express 5 warned that the messages had not been sent
> when they had, obviously.
Happened outbound here too - no cable and no Outlook. (?)