Survey pegs in wrong place
Matty F
whenever surveyors check them. One corner peg has been surveyed five
times and the peg shifted three times.
How is this possible? The latest surveyor used old gear that he says
is accurate to 1mm and says the existing peg is way out.
He is not going to buy the latest GPS gear because he will retire
soon.
The last surveyor 4 years ago (and checked again last month) charged a
great deal for a GPS survey, and I've put fences in according to those
pegs.
The surveyor 20 years ago put the peg about 500mm dowhill.
The surveyor in 1852 had the boundaries not too far away but he is
excused. The old puriri fence posts are still there but have moved
downhill by themselves.
The latest surveyor gives me a metre less land sideways but 2 metres
more land uphill.
The latest surveyor used a (laser?) device on a tripod that aimed at a
mirror on a vertical rod held by an assistant. The rod could be
extended upwards until it could be seen by the laser.
Clearly the horizontal angle and distance could be measured by the
device.
But the laser was some 3 or 4 metres higher than the rod, so when the
rod was raised the distance would change. Does the laser allow for the
downward angle of the rod?
Whatever method they use, the fact that the peg has been moved three
times in the last 20 years does not impress me at all.
Fortunately my neighbours are paying for all this. But I'm sick of
shifting my fences. I just like to have them in the right place. And
I'm not shifting my brick fence again.
Roger Dewhurst
Trigonometry does.
>
> Whatever method they use, the fact that the peg has been moved three
> times in the last 20 years does not impress me at all.
Understandably. After all title is guaranteed by the government. Try
the Minister of Lands. Rock the boat a bit.
Fred
As long as you have a survey that identifies your fence as the boundary -
why worry?
Matty F
> As long as you have a survey that identifies your fence as the boundary -
> why worry?
The new survey shows that three huge trees are now on my property.
One is a privet. I'd rather not have to pay for the trimming or
removal of those trees. Because they are on a cliff they will fall
down by themselves one day and take the cliff with it.
Also I am puzzled by the hopeless inaccuracy of some surveyors.
Fred
Got a friendly conveyancing lawyer familiar with the locality and local
surveyors?
John Cawston
Three surveys at odds suggests shooting to a master peg out of position,
or more than one plan at the District Council are being accessed or
adjacent pegs are out of position. The fact cliffs are close by might
suggest another survey being accessed to 'tie in" the boundaries.
Its an intriguing problem, and maybe one in which the actual boundary,
in law, may be determined not by the most modern equipment and methods,
but by the original survey. By that I mean that the original town survey
might have been slightly in error.. and the error has been accepted but
allowed to manifest itself more in the (future) suburbs.
JC
Fred
Yeah; but if the title is limited as to parcels it can become a question of
finding the original reference point - a hugely expensive execise, and if
different surveys produce different results that is almost certainly the
case..
Matty F
As it happens a CCTV camera shows me that some surveyors were
measuring something at the location of the master survey mark along my
road today. That is the same mark that a large reputable survey
company used 5 years ago.
I shall be phoning Land Information tomorrow and saying that someone
has made a large mistake and they'd better fix it.
I also think that surveyors should contact property owners before they
wander around on their property. Which today's lot did not, even
though I was home at the time.
Matty F
> On 24/01/2011 6:06 p.m., Matty F wrote:
>
> > But the laser was some 3 or 4 metres higher than the rod, so when the
> > rod was raised the distance would change. Does the laser allow for the
> > downward angle of the rod?
>
> Trigonometry does.
I'm told by a retired surveyor that they used to have to calculate the
downward angle, but modern equipment probably does that automatically.
Also he said that there are a number of required checks that make
mistakes very unlikely.
>
>
> > Whatever method they use, the fact that the peg has been moved three
> > times in the last 20 years does not impress me at all.
>
> Understandably. After all title is guaranteed by the government. Try
> the Minister of Lands. Rock the boat a bit.
Land Information sent me a letter last month asking if I agreed with
the current boundaries, which I did. This is a new surveyor hired
today by a different neighbour. I'll be phoning Land Information
tomorrow.
Matty F
> Got a friendly conveyancing lawyer familiar with the locality and local
> surveyors?
As it happens there's yet another neighbour who is an out-of-work
lawyer who is disputing his boundary, mainly because he has encroached
by several metres on to his neighbours property. The neighbours are
too elderly to go and have a look. I'm staying out of that argument.
peterwn
'limited as to parcels'.
I suspect the problem is that older Deposited Plans may not be
accurately tied to trig points and any localised datum points may have
been lost over time. A surveyor groaned when I mentioned DP 600
(Wellngton).
In some cases there is no DP, a property may be just 'part Section 1
Harbour District' (which covers two thousand or so lots) the only plan
being an un-numbered plan attached to an old transfer document.
Roger_Nickel
Had the same problem in an old part of Wellington (Aro Valley). Sections
"limited as to parcels" and the neighbour needed a survey to get a
mortgage. A survey put the boundary about 600mm into his property, wiping
out his access path. We agreed to leave things as they were and the
surveyor put the boundary marker on on of the existing fence posts; he
said that this would probably be what a court would decide anyway. I had
visions of surveyors armed with slashers dragging steel chains up through
the scrub back in the 1860's.
David
In Christchurch some boundaries have actually moved over a metre...!
In my section I am relying on where the actual fences are...
and maintain friendly relations with the neighbours...
from what i can see neighbour disputes are a pain n the butt!
John Cawston
Yeah.. done my share.
Back in the 1960s I knew an old surveyor.. he was in his 90s at the time
and he told some good stories of surveying around the country. One of
the old wet weather tricks was to buy a pair of Longjohns miles too big
for you and boil the shit out of it in the copper till the fibres all
knitted together and shrank.. and thats all they wore in wet bush.
JC
Me
How do they determine position around and either side of a fault-line,
after there's been lateral movement?
I gather that they use differential GPS these days for local surveying,
but that relies on use of ground-based GPS transmitter(s), and the
actual and relative positions of those stations will have moved.
Roger Dewhurst
anything to do with a property except the exchange of money?
R
Fred
A good lawyer will give good advice. Obviously he won't take responsibility.
Lyndon Watson
> A good lawyer will give good advice. Obviously he won't take responsibility.
Lawyers may not, under their rules of conduct, contract out of their
responsibilities. If they negligently give bad advice, then they are
liable.
LW
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<9976f45c-0f91-4b6b...@k21g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, Matty F
wrote:
> The survey pegs around my property shift by up to a metre or more
> whenever surveyors check them. One corner peg has been surveyed five
> times and the peg shifted three times.
A scientist would ask: what were their error estimates?
Matty F
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message
> <9976f45c-0f91-4b6b-9b73-f6b04fc2d...@k21g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, Matty F
I've not had time to phone Land Information. I hope to do that
tomorrow.
So, is the opinion of a 70 year old surveyor likely to be more
accurate than a large surveying conpany? I am tempted to phone the
large surveying company to ask if they stand by their work, but
friends advise me not to. Why ever not?
I know enough about measuring things to know that at least three
surveyors have done a rotten job. This is unacceptable.
Fred
They may not have done a rotten job. They don't usually. If your title is
limited as to parcels it's possible the only accurate survey (one that can
be guaranteed) could involve a massive job surveying the whole area.
Gordon
>
> The latest surveyor used a (laser?) device on a tripod that aimed at a
> mirror on a vertical rod held by an assistant. The rod could be
> extended upwards until it could be seen by the laser.
> Clearly the horizontal angle and distance could be measured by the
> device.
> But the laser was some 3 or 4 metres higher than the rod, so when the
> rod was raised the distance would change. Does the laser allow for the
> downward angle of the rod?
All legal land areas are flat. The area is the horizontial area below the
land, no matter what it does.
Matty F
Well that's kind of obvious. I'm asking about how the equipment is
used.
I have spoken to an ex surveyor's assistant. He says that with the
equipment of 20 years ago they had to manually calculate the effect of
the mirror being lower than the laser or whatever they used then.
The latest surveyor was able to allow immediately (i.e a few seconds)
for the mirror being raised and lowered. The random height of the
mirror appeared to be automatically allowed for by the equipment
without any calculations or any data being input apart from the
bearing and the horizontal distance.