Treatments For Depression
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
depression, mild-to-moderate cases are better off with therapy
<http://healthcare.zdnet.com/?p=3169>.
Though some of the suggestions for therapy do seem to hark back to things
popular back in the 1970s...
Fred
"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <l...@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> wrote in message
news:hi3kgl$hpc$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Gee. Thanks.
vitw
There is a proven cure for depression, 100% effective, quite popular,
although it does come with a controversial side-effect:
hellicopter
Since highly specific and selective brain injury, mental
aberration, is due to the misalignment functioning of the
brain, then of course shutting down increasing parts of
the brain permentally will eventually 'work'. However that's
a kind of character murder, like hacking an arm off because
you lost one already.
Mental patients don't need white suits looking after them, they
need communities and they need flexibility. Two resources that
make it hard to get people socially engaged with mass
consumerism and hard to predict once engaged. Mass consumerism
destroys communities, turns citizens into zombies.
You can have freedom as long its all packaged the same,
delivered uniformly, and make you have the same experience.
The true mentally retards run our mass media, sit in our
boardrooms, and switch off when talk hurts profits.
The death squid isn't just Goldman Sachs.
As lobotomies became more understood, experienced by associates,
relatives, etc, just as any technology there is an emergent response
to the new technology. People found their character, their ability,
had been robbed from them, and loved ones. Janet Frame was within hours of
having her first treatment, they stopped when they realize
they would do a great disservice to their industry by destroying
such a mind. Such techniques are barbarism. As the practice
expanded, become more widespread and known about, the abhorrence
of the practice become more common.
So !00% effective at making individuals subservient and conform
to whose requirements, not the patient. The code is do no harm,
that applies to the patient not the doctor.
Tilly
news:hi49l4$tlq$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Lobotomies are very rare and aren't performed on people with psychiatric
disorders.
They are used as a last resort in the treatment of temporal lobe epilepsy
that doesn't respond to medication.
It stops or markedly reduces eseizures .
--
femai...@gmail.com
retro
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> It appears antidepressant drugs really only work for cases of severe
> depression, mild-to-moderate cases are better off with therapy
> <http://healthcare.zdnet.com/?p=3169>.
many mental health problems subside when people stop using
intoxicating substances
Enkidu
yourself, that sort of crass humour could be considered funny, if you
were some sort of spotty crass maladjusted hormonal teenager, which I
don't think you are.
Cheers,
Cliff
--
The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
the same old personalities show through.
vitw
> I suppose that in some lights, if you haven't suffered from depression
> yourself, that sort of crass humour could be considered funny, if you
> were some sort of spotty crass maladjusted hormonal teenager, which I
> don't think you are.
As someone who has personally suffered from major depression, I find that
black humour like this can actually be therapeutic. The ability to laugh
at yourself and your condition is a major contributor to healing.
~misfit~
Yeah, but is only gained by some, and then only after they've got over the
worst of it.
A lot of depression survivors end up pissed off at the misunderstanding and
bigotry they encountered. A lot also kill themselves.
I don't know why you used TinyURL for a short URL (being
http://www.glock.com/english/glock17.htm) unless it was to disguise it so
that people would without TinyURL Preview installed wouldn't know what they
were clicking.
--
Shaun.
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> As someone who has personally suffered from major depression, I find that
> black humour like this can actually be therapeutic. The ability to laugh
> at yourself and your condition is a major contributor to healing.
As I understand it, clinical depression is not about feeling sad, but about
feeling nothing at all. Therefore anything that provokes feeling would seem
to be helpful.
Enkidu
> In message <4b466028$1...@news.orcon.net.nz>, vitw wrote:
>
>> As someone who has personally suffered from major depression, I
>> find that black humour like this can actually be therapeutic. The
>> ability to laugh at yourself and your condition is a major
>> contributor to healing.
>
>
Yeah right...
>
> ....clinical depression is not about feeling sad, but about feeling
> nothing at all.
>
It would be funny if it was so sad and tragic.
>
> Therefore anything that provokes feeling would seem to be helpful.
>
hellicopter
> On , , Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:48:08 -0800 (PST), Re: Treatments For
> Depression, retro <galle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 7, 4:30 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
>>central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>>> It appears antidepressant drugs really only work for cases of severe
>>> depression, mild-to-moderate cases are better off with therapy
>>> <http://healthcare.zdnet.com/?p=3169>.
>>
>>many mental health problems subside when people stop using
>>intoxicating substances
>
> You are talking like some lamoid bloody social worker.
Talk about pet hates. Social workers! Geez don't get me started.
The state to satisfy the demands of the 'market' for cheap
skilled labour, pushed policies that destroy social integration
and dislocated extend families, community, clan even, affiliations.
As a result families found themselves in far off locations with
the same needs that would have been satisfied by extend family,
community, likeminded groups (church), etc. Communities that
healed themselves. Communities are after all needed to educate
children socially. So the government response was to invest in
the consequences of social dislocation by inventing the 'social worker'.
Just as with adoption, kids could be adopted to non-similar
cultural different families, so social workers had no appreciation
of their clients beliefs.
The joke is now government are finding that social workers cost
huge amounts, along with the consequence of massive dislocation
caused by their growing wealth industry (bureaucrats, legislation
to reset the balance of rights when welfare policies invade
the poorest with increasing legislation, compulsive and otherwise).
So this welfare monster frontline social worker force is created
who have nothing but a battery of nasty laws to enforce.
Yeah, social workers, like charity, too many of the them, show
how poorly functioning society has become. Now government want
families, communities to bear more of the burden for the
welfare cost of business practices without changing the legislation
that makes shifting businesses overseas when workers win increased
pay settlements. Its a cycle of stupid, the businesses argue
for more draconian rules, government obliges and tries to raise
taxes to pay for the consequential damage, then social indicators
fall through the fall, where upon business argue for less rules
but keep the draconian ones. Now the cycle begins again, business
now have it so easy they run up debts, government obliges them and
tries to raise taxes to pay for the ensuing market collapse, the
taxes aren't raised, the social indicators fall again, the news
now covers up the huge wealth loses of the majority of working
and middle classes, and again (now) big business wants to cannibalize
government. Geez, you should never have allow the creating of
big government on the poorest, who instead of containing
business decides to mop the poor policies of the past, up with the
welfare industry!
The simple solution is to get off the backs of the poorest,
many who now have high end degrees! These people aren't stupid
they just can't see any point in buying into a system that
will turn them into wage slaves. The rise of the Green movement
isn't just about home owners not wanting polluters destroying
their house price, though that is a part of it. Its about people
who can't see a way forward voting for a party that helps
them in their new way of living, thrift, planet safe living.
Greens will only be successful, save the planet, when business
gets off the backs of the poorest (they use to sustain themeselves
as perpetuate) and work to reintroduce capitalism. Thus
the attack on the Greens as leftwing, is an attack on the
Greens to say not yet, the business elite still believe they can
have their cake and eat it to, they can have a planet and maintain
a inefficient lockdown on capitalism from the boardrooms of the world.
Provide everyone with a negative tax income, shutdown the social
wealth departments and let rip the sails of Adam Smith!
If the nation is wealthier then then increase the low income limit,
if we get poorer raise it. Duh!
Fr*k social workers.
vitw
>> ....clinical depression is not about feeling sad, but about feeling
>> nothing at all.
> Another glib load of nonsense from Lawrence.
Don't be too quick to jump on him - he sounds like someone who is
genuinely interested.
In depression, or at least how many of us experience it, it's like
there's something inside us poisoning our thoughts and putting a negative
spin on everything.
With every success from the past, the brain puts a negative stain on the
memory - eg how we ultimately fucked it up, or how it really wasn't such
a success, or how we hurt people along the way.
With every failure from the past, the brain blows it up out of all
proportion.
Where it leads is a marked inability to experience joy or fulfilment, and
a growing feeling that one is a net liability to the world, that others
would ultimately be happier if one just ceased to exist.
These cognitive distortions feel overwhelmingly real. Trying to 'be
happy' over the top of it all is a useless pursuit, akin to trying to
hold a giant heavy dark wet blanket off us.
The mainstream therapies such as CBT and Narrative Therapy are of very
little real use, since they work at way too shallow a level.
The pharmaceuticals are no better - full of side-effects, and (in the
case of the trendy new SSRIs) highly addictive, and take ages to kick in,
and may not even do very much once they take effect.
Good food, a good vitamin regime, consistent exercise, and working
through one's feelings in the loving presence of an open-hearted and
intuitively skilled therapist (using skills not taught in any university
course) seem to be the only things that really help. That, and letting
off a heap of steam once in a while.
Miche
wrote:
> The mainstream therapies such as CBT and Narrative Therapy are of very
> little real use, since they work at way too shallow a level.
>
> The pharmaceuticals are no better - full of side-effects, and (in the
> case of the trendy new SSRIs) highly addictive, and take ages to kick in,
> and may not even do very much once they take effect.
>
> Good food, a good vitamin regime, consistent exercise, and working
> through one's feelings in the loving presence of an open-hearted and
> intuitively skilled therapist (using skills not taught in any university
> course) seem to be the only things that really help. That, and letting
> off a heap of steam once in a while.
That may be the case for you. A combination of CBT and SSRIs worked
wonders for me.
Miche
--
Electricians do it in three phases
vitw
> That may be the case for you. A combination of CBT and SSRIs worked
> wonders for me.
Are you still on the SSRIs?
hellicopter
Self Identity is key. We see ourselves as good people (
at least accomplished at tasks), so when
pollution, poor 'big corporate' fat-sugar-salt diet, and
stressful poverty or death enter our loved ones lives, then
those stress on the brain are like stress on any other part
of the body. They undermine the
ability of the organ, muscle, whatever, to function and to heal
properly. A broken leg that resets improperly. A brain that
heals itself poorly, over time will lead to increased
damage as feedback from the injury will stress the self identity
of the person. e.g. if you could not run efficiently anymore
your running career is over, now imagine the feedback when
its another part of the brain! Your identity is interwoven
with the injury. The brain has ways to sort this stuff out,
but first the stress, or damaging event, needs to be removed.
You do no set a broken leg with a foreign item still there!
Mental disorder need to be unwound. Like the dried on dirt
on my cooker, clearing off it cold is hard, so returning the
cooking surface to warm and then taking off the dirt is easier.
i.e. return to the nearest point to the crisis and take
a new cleaner direction.
So, like the homicide investigators seeking out a serial
killer go for the first event to understand what broke
in the serial killers mind. So mental health need to find the
first break with reason that caused the mental break down of
the person. Remembering that some stress is immediate,
and some is long term. Isolation will degrade social skills
slowly, whereas psychological assault might take a few months
to inflict damage. A good Doctor will do an extensive history
of the patient, and this requires a Doctor Patient relationship
based on privacy, longevity, and free (financially).
Most Doctors don't have the time for that anymore. So expect
mental health from the crisis to increase. Expect more people
with mental health issues wandering around town and with no
social grace whatsoever.
Miche
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
wrote:
The study suggested that the drugs work best for severe cases. Was yours
severe?
Miche
I'm not in any position to judge.
In any case, it was the combination of CBY and drugs that worked for me.
retro
> On , , Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:48:08 -0800 (PST), Re: Treatments For Depression,
>
> >On Jan 7, 4:30 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
> >central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> >> It appears antidepressant drugs really only work for cases of severe
> >> depression, mild-to-moderate cases are better off with therapy
> >> <http://healthcare.zdnet.com/?p=3169>.
>
> >many mental health problems subside when people stop using
> >intoxicating substances
>
it's a fact
ya know I reckon there are so many mental health probs in NZ because
it is a nation of heavy and problematic drinkers
a litle learning for ya
Primary prevention aims to “stop people from starting”, targeting
people who haven’t begun experimenting with mind altering substances.
Secondary prevention “starts people stopping” early detection and
intervention, targeting first time users and people who have begun
experimenting with substances
Tertiary Prevention “keeping people stopped”, treatment,
detoxification, rehabilitation, stopping the problems associated with
substance abuse from getting worse
here a little Amy for ya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTPRJqt2z4
> "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
> to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
> Anatole France.
Enkidu
> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:03:48 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
>
>>> ....clinical depression is not about feeling sad, but about
>>> feeling nothing at all.
>
>> Another glib load of nonsense from Lawrence.
>
> Don't be too quick to jump on him - he sounds like someone who is
> genuinely interested.
>
>
> In depression, or at least how many of us experience it, it's like
> there's something inside us poisoning our thoughts and putting a
> negative spin on everything.
>
it it is immediate and now and not related to what I might be thinking
about. In fact thinking is hard.
Whatever, it doesn't mean that Lawrence is really a) interested, b) has
any inkling of what he is talking about.
hellicopter
The idea now going round, is poor nutrient leaves people seeking
nutrients (or pacifiers like drug and alcohol). So high levels
of abuse in Australian Aboriginals is due to western food consumption!
Why would this be, well Aboriginals are black and so would not be
getting enough vitamin D, they don't to the doctor often if there is one,
but skin might not be the only dependence they have. Since they
have lived in an extreme environment for 10,000 years they may have
other vitamins that are lacking in the western diet and can't form
themselves. i.e. if your body is limited on what it can do, if the
environment can provide the nutrients evolution will switch off
the process and switch on other functions (that reduce water needs).
So its makes total sense that aboriginals are still being impacted
by the failure of both 'white' institutions and even 'white' diets.
But wait, now people in the west, turned off by society and living
in their homes never going out, pale skinned people are not getting
enough sun! So the rise in mental health problems for poor people
in the western, because someone wants to pack a burger with sugar,
salt and fat and sell it cheap! Capitalism that does not serve
the people will destroy the people.
Tilly
news:hi64qr$i6$5...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Not true, depressives can feel very sad , some feel flat..
--
femai...@gmail.com
Tilly
news:4b46...@news.orcon.net.nz...
They start to kick in after a week and take up to 3 weeks to work.
They are usually very effective, the person taking them is able to function
to some degree after 3 weeks.
> Good food, a good vitamin regime, consistent exercise, and working
> through one's feelings in the loving presence of an open-hearted and
> intuitively skilled therapist (using skills not taught in any university
> course) seem to be the only things that really help. That, and letting
> off a heap of steam once in a while.
>
It's good once people are able to cope , but it needs to be maintained.
Using exerise etc... as treatment for severe depression rarely works.
Tilly
news:28d88cc7-14a6-497d...@s3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
Lots of people with depression don't use drink or drugs.
retro
people go on about this thing called "western food"
I would like to know what that is exactly.
i would think that "western food" includes things like eggs, meat,
calcium products like milk and cheese, seafood, silver beet, cabbage,
cauli, potatoes, tomatoes, apples, citrus fruits berries etc.
So if abos are in fact eating "western foods" they should be well and
healthy.
but yes i actually agree with the notion that people seek drugs and
alcohol etc because their bodies are craving something in the way of
nutrients.
One particular example of that is the typical kiwi blokey bloke who
after a hard days work seeks out a beer to cool and quench his thirst,
when in fact he would be far better off sculling back an energiser
juice from a juice bar, which usually includes Pineapple, apples,
berries, banana a protein supplement and a ginkgo derivative.
But no they generally go for the low nutrient beer, beacause it is
'manly' and they are too 'manly' to knock back a good healthy juice.
> Why would this be, well Aboriginals are black and so would not be
> getting enough vitamin D, they don't to the doctor often if there is one,
> but skin might not be the only dependence they have. Since they
> have lived in an extreme environment for 10,000 years they may have
> other vitamins that are lacking in the western diet and can't form
> themselves. i.e. if your body is limited on what it can do, if the
> environment can provide the nutrients evolution will switch off
> the process and switch on other functions (that reduce water needs).
um which particular vitamins are lacking in the 'western diet'
western diet seems to have plenty of vitamins and minerals
> So its makes total sense that aboriginals are still being impacted
> by the failure of both 'white' institutions and even 'white' diets.
That is your 'social construct' and a generalisation which probably
has no real basis in fact.
> But wait, now people in the west, turned off by society and living
> in their homes never going out, pale skinned people are not getting
> enough sun! So the rise in mental health problems for poor people
> in the western, because someone wants to pack a burger with sugar,
> salt and fat and sell it cheap! Capitalism that does not serve
> the people will destroy the people.- Hide quoted text -
>
good grief
retro
> "retro" <galleria...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
> > to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
> > Anatole France.
>
> Lots of people with depression don't use drink or drugs.
>
vitw
> It's good once people are able to cope , but it needs to be maintained.
> Using exerise etc... as treatment for severe depression rarely works.
Gotta pull you up there Tilly. There are several studies which indicate
that regular exercise alone is just as effective as SSRI medications.
Enkidu
(I accidentally created a new word - 'exercide' or killing yourself with
exercise.)
Kerry
So is time...
hellicopter
Like that's my problem and not yours, yet you spend time worrying
and I don't. Look I rather go for gold concepts and worry less about
if any one actually reads my posts. You'd rather like to read stuff
that's written well but says little conceptually. Well change your
selection behavior, find a library, or book store, or a magazine stand.
If you'd spent anytime in here you'd know your wasting your pretty
head with ad homs about sentence and grammar construction. Oh, that's
right you're cheap, you don't have the money to buy a book.
We see massive obesity from eating western foods. Now I agree
there is a lot of mineral and vitamins in western food. But people
often don't get fresh veg in the desert, there aren't the numbers
of consumers to justify stacking vegie aisles. So, first off
western diet ain't doing it for most people. Second, people
who aren't getting the right balance of nutrients binge. Pregnant women
binge. Poor people binge, and yes more to do with culture of
making poor choices because they don't have the money, and cheap
crap is easily available. But evolution in a desert would typically
quickly cull individuals who passed up highly unattractive but
nutritionally rich alternative foods. Selecting for those
individuals who would make energy and nutrients go further.
So the very evil of western foods is not exactly the same,
aboriginals like fat people in the west are more capable of
storing nutrients given their genes express a biological
disposition to store foods for bad patches, food spikes.
Strange as it seems but fat people were better fitted when
food was seasonal. Aboriginals also will have been selected
to refine better complex nutrients, maybe even still eat
foods that have bacteria, etc, from their environment from
other animals that use them. So Aboriginals are both geographically
and genetically hard done by western food culture.
hellicopter
Common denominator is self abuse. Behavior emerges from a mismatch
of identity to actual achievement. CEO's dressing up as babies and
building themselves a supersized nursery.
Tilly
It is to maintain recovery, but it rarely is successful in treating *severe
depression* on its own without medication.