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Why does paint cost so much in NZ?

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ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 7, 2005, 9:37:07 PM8/7/05
to
Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?
--
Tarla
****
Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a
relief denied even to prayer.
-Mark Twain

Bruce Hoult

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Aug 7, 2005, 10:25:50 PM8/7/05
to
In article <42f6b70b...@news.inspire.net.nz>, ta...@inspire.not.nz
wrote:

> Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
> all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

Outdoors paint, at least, has to withstand a lot more UV exposure here
than in most places.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

news.xtra.co.nz

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Aug 7, 2005, 10:33:52 PM8/7/05
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<ta...@inspire.not.nz> wrote in message
news:42f6b70b...@news.inspire.net.nz...

Because we have no ozone layer, and much more UV. In fact, NZ paint is
probably the best in the world.

Why do you think the sun feels so much hotter here in our summer than say
Fiji.

Hermit

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Aug 8, 2005, 12:01:19 AM8/8/05
to

<ta...@inspire.not.nz> wrote in message
news:42f6b70b...@news.inspire.net.nz...
> Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
> all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

I dunno but I hate all these shop-tinted paints; they bear no resemblance to
the colour cards. The time is ripe for Farrow & Ball - somebody - please???


Donald Mackie

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Aug 8, 2005, 12:41:17 AM8/8/05
to
In article <bruce-0A9C48....@news.clear.net.nz>,
Bruce Hoult <br...@hoult.org> wrote:

> In article <42f6b70b...@news.inspire.net.nz>, ta...@inspire.not.nz
> wrote:
>
> > Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
> > all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?
>
> Outdoors paint, at least, has to withstand a lot more UV exposure here
> than in most places.

How do our paint costs compare with Australia? Buggered if I can find
any prices online...

Mutlley

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Aug 8, 2005, 1:03:17 AM8/8/05
to
ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:

>Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
>all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

Good question. When I was in the US in the mid 90s I could buy a
gallon (4 liters ) for about US$12. Here the same size paint sold for
about NZ$45.

BAM

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Aug 8, 2005, 1:06:48 AM8/8/05
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The reason paint is so expensive in NZ is because the paint companies
are absolutely reaming the general public.
For example, I needed a 4l tin of paint so I rang around and was priced
on average $100.I thought "Fuck me thats expensive" so I rang up a mate
who's a painting contractor and he told me to go down to the paint shop
and use his cash account to buy the paint,instead of $100 dollars it
cost me $45.00
The reason they do this is to get painting contractors to solely use
their paint they really are not interested in the DIY market as they
think paint should only be applied by a qualified tradesman.

Newsman

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Aug 8, 2005, 1:10:10 AM8/8/05
to
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:25:50 +1200, Bruce Hoult <br...@hoult.org>
wrote:

>In article <42f6b70b...@news.inspire.net.nz>, ta...@inspire.not.nz
>wrote:
>
>> Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
>> all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?
>
>Outdoors paint, at least, has to withstand a lot more UV exposure here
>than in most places.

But are you certain it does?

Newsman

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Aug 8, 2005, 1:24:06 AM8/8/05
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On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 01:37:07 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:

>Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
>all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

Doesn't need to be expensive, but there's a ready and captive sucker
market. Think of other things, like broadband in NZ.

And then there's the roofs! Never seen anything like it anywhere in
my life! I'll never forget the time the man who told me soon after I
arrived here that he couldn't make a meeting because his wife had
ordered him to get round to painting *the roof* that weekend.

"Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?" I thought.

Paint the *roof*? Weird! The poor sap's wife obviously wore the
trousers as well - LOL!

And then there's a brand calling itself "British Paints", but is it
truly a British made import?

brazen

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Aug 8, 2005, 1:47:11 AM8/8/05
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" Newsman" <sla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42f6e961...@news.actrix.co.nz...

Which IIRC used to be advertised by Rolf Harris....

Gay


Message has been deleted

Gordon

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Aug 8, 2005, 1:54:41 AM8/8/05
to
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 01:37:07 +0000, tarla wrote:

> Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
> all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

Always has been?

There is a saying, If you buy cheap paint that is all you have bought.

Message has been deleted

SpamAcco...@gmail.com

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Aug 8, 2005, 2:01:40 AM8/8/05
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Its not just paint. I was just looking today at price differentials
for PC parts - $US 180 in the US; over $US 300 here.

thingy

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Aug 8, 2005, 2:14:58 AM8/8/05
to
ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:
> Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
> all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

resene has plants here, Lower Hutt at the very least.

Otherwise I suspect it is a small market sewn up aka the petrol market.

We do get a lot of ultra-violet light though so its more aditives, but
hardly that expensive.

regards

Thing

Warwick

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Aug 8, 2005, 4:30:54 AM8/8/05
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On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 01:37:07 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:

> Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
> all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

Not sure, the two biggies (Resene and Dulux) are not friendly enough to be
collaborating. However the profit margins are huge. I know of a rep who can
buy at trade - 80%. However their costs are significant. Seen a fair few
litres tossed down the drain due to mistints.


You can make your own, its not that difficult, but it will not save you any
money becuase you will buy some ingredients in very small quantities and
pay a premium price that suppliers avoid.

Quantities are the key. 10 litres cheap, 4 litres dear, 2 litres very dear,
1 litre fucking expensive.

Alto are the only suppliers who do not use bases. It is all tinter.

I am told it is because ingredients for oils cannot be made here and must
be imported is why water based dominates almost every application method.
Otherwise it is certainly made here, by both Dulux and Resene at least.

I haven't been much help sorry, but maybe answered your questions.

btw, I might be able to help you choose a good paint product if I knew what
the application was. We have been using a lot of Resene spacecoat lately.
It is low sheen water borne enamel. It's wonderful paint. With spray its a
one coat wonder. Touches up easily. Nice to paint with. On the down side it
is only available in 4 litres or less, which makes it dear.


best



Agnes Volestrangler XIII

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Aug 8, 2005, 6:47:38 AM8/8/05
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And it's worth haunting the mistint section of the shop. Learn to mix
your own colours, or get the shop to chuck another splodge of blue or
whatever into the bucket of half-price mistint. You can make some
really great colours buy mixing your own. They won't be identical to a
chart colour so don't think in terms of matching someone else's colour,
think about making a pleasing colour for yourself.

A L P

Richard

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Aug 8, 2005, 7:14:33 AM8/8/05
to
texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.. wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 01:37:07 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:
>
>
>>Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
>>all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?
>
>
> Because there are no Walmarts....
>
> Cath

3 brothers in panmure sell the misstints from wallmart, which they can import
and sell at $12 or $14 for a 3.8 litre, and some of the colours arnt too bad
either. Its good stuff too, doesnt splatter like the crap that the warehouse sell.

Guess where I got all the paint for the bedrooms here :) they also have an ok
sealer for under $30 a pail

RdM

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Aug 8, 2005, 7:45:20 AM8/8/05
to
texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.. in
nz.general<uirdf1dhqmfeesh9d...@4ax.com>:

> On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 01:37:07 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:
>
> >Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
> >all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?
>
> Because there are no Walmarts....

OTOH The Warehouse sells a range of NZ-made paint @ ~$39.95/4l.

These (or some at least) are made by Reid Paints as per my other post.

RdM

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Aug 8, 2005, 7:45:12 AM8/8/05
to
BAM wrote in
nz.general<42f6...@news.iconz.co.nz>:

> Hermit wrote:
> > <ta...@inspire.not.nz> wrote in message
> > news:42f6b70b...@news.inspire.net.nz...
> >
> >>Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
> >>all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?
> >
> >
> > I dunno but I hate all these shop-tinted paints; they bear no resemblance to
> > the colour cards. The time is ripe for Farrow & Ball - somebody - please???
> >
> The reason paint is so expensive in NZ is because the paint companies
> are absolutely reaming the general public.
> For example, I needed a 4l tin of paint so I rang around and was priced
> on average $100.I thought "Fuck me thats expensive" so I rang up a mate
> who's a painting contractor and he told me to go down to the paint shop
> and use his cash account to buy the paint,instead of $100 dollars it
> cost me $45.00

Wonder what brand that was?
BTW an NZ made 4l tin of alkyd or acrylic is ~$40 from Te Wharehouse

> The reason they do this is to get painting contractors to solely use
> their paint they really are not interested in the DIY market as they
> think paint should only be applied by a qualified tradesman.

Dulux (and I'm sure other brands) have trade outlet "shops" that are far
more basic than yer average pretty retail outlet; may sell to public too.

I have a builder friend who uses and supports (has an account with) these
NZ paint mfrs: http://www.yellow.co.nz/site/reidpaints/ (Penrose in Auck).

They also make via a subsidiary the Enviropaints line that the Warehouse
sells. I've used both (in alkyd) and find them perfectly acceptable paints.

No need to pay > $100 per 4l tin!

RdM

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Aug 8, 2005, 7:45:33 AM8/8/05
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Gordon reckons in
nz.general<pan.2005.08.08....@yahoo.com>:

Yeah?

There are also some massively hyped advertising campaigns and extreme
retail prices pitched at the weekend DIY'er ... which might equally well
suggest that if you've bought dear paint, that's all you've bought ...

"The paint the professionals use" ... yeah, right!

There are trade paint outlets the professionals are more likely to use.

RdM

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Aug 8, 2005, 7:49:00 AM8/8/05
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Richard wrote in
nz.general<42f7...@news.orcon.net.nz>:

Good tip, ta. But which warehouse paint did you find splattered? Acrylic?
They carry a couple of brands IIRC.

Warwick

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Aug 8, 2005, 3:11:46 PM8/8/05
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On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 23:45:33 +1200, RdM wrote:

> There are trade paint outlets the professionals are more likely to use.

Here in Welly, it is a case of a trade line that we buy from the same place
other people buy their paint. It is cheaper, but not as easy to use. The
idea is a tradesman will achieve the same or better level of finish with it
as a handy man will with the retail product.

Bear in mind, if a paint is guaranteed for 10 years, you buy it and let it
sit in the can for 5, then it has aged 5 years in the can, and now only has
5 years left. So I'd be wary of buying American rejects.

cheers

Barry Lennox

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Aug 8, 2005, 3:27:02 PM8/8/05
to
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 01:37:07 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:

>Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
>all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

Because it's like a lot of things here in NZ. We get screwed!

Paint.
Shoes
Tools, but mostly power tools (eg; DeWaltDW705 USD235, NZD985 ?!?!)
Hardware items galore.

The argument about tougher UV resistance is BS, IMO. I still have a
couple of Adirondack chairs I built and painted in the USA, standing
up fine. The paint was some very cheap HD stuff at around $9 per
gallon.

If you are considering doing any major renovation, it would be worth
doing what a friend did. Fly to the US, fill a 20' container with
everything you need from HD and ship it here. Even with freight and
GST, it was much cheaper than buying here.

ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 8, 2005, 4:16:56 PM8/8/05
to

Never having been to Fiji, I can't compare. It's certainly not as hot
as where I grew up, and it's not as extreme in terms of weather as
Oklahoma, but paint costs three times as much, both interior and
exterior.
--
Tarla
****
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
-Mark Twain

ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 8, 2005, 4:18:12 PM8/8/05
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On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:06:48 +1200, BAM <B...@notmyaddress.co.nz>
wrote:

Now THAT is an answer that actually makes sense. They gouge the public
because they want to sell wholesale rather than in 4 litre cans to
individuals.

ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 8, 2005, 4:23:02 PM8/8/05
to

That's true enough in general, but the price of house paint is
outrageous. Seriously, I bought five gallons (equiv.) of paint and it
cost me a couple of hundred dollars! I could have purchased the same
quality and quantity of paint for about a quarter of that price back
in the US.

ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 8, 2005, 4:26:05 PM8/8/05
to

It's not a current problem but rather one for the future. It also
occurred to me that if there weren't any paint manufacturing plants in
NZ, that that would be a good business to get into. You could blow the
competition out of the water if you were just willing to take a
smaller profit.

ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 8, 2005, 4:28:28 PM8/8/05
to

In my particular case, that is not a problem. In fact, for small
areas, I could just go down to the French Art Supply and buy the
pigments raw, and make my own paint. I can do small touch-ups without
ever having to see the inside of a paint store. I have all the stuff I
need in the studio both water based and oil.

Mutlley

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Aug 8, 2005, 4:54:25 PM8/8/05
to
texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.. wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:03:17 +1200, Mutlley <mutle...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:

>Hate to tell you but I still can buy an excellent quality interior or
>exterior paint for less than US$10 a gallon.
>
>Cath
>
>
>
Stuff!!!

Newsman

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Aug 8, 2005, 5:19:35 PM8/8/05
to
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:33:52 +1200, "news.xtra.co.nz"
<goa...@spammonster.com> wrote:

>
><ta...@inspire.not.nz> wrote in message
>news:42f6b70b...@news.inspire.net.nz...

>> Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
>> all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?

>> --
>> Tarla
>> ****
>> Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a
>> relief denied even to prayer.
>> -Mark Twain
>
>Because we have no ozone layer, and much more UV. In fact, NZ paint is
>probably the best in the world.
>
>Why do you think the sun feels so much hotter here in our summer than say
>Fiji.

New Zealand is generally temperate, not hot.
>
>
>

ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 8, 2005, 5:57:00 PM8/8/05
to
On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 08:54:25 +1200, Mutlley <mutle...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

It's true. If you pay $15 a gallon for interior paint, you're
splurging on the "good stuff."

ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 8, 2005, 6:00:12 PM8/8/05
to

I could save myself the airfare and just order it and have the in-laws
ship it for us. Good idea, because seriously, painting the whole
house...it really would end up saving us money even with the cost of
shipping.

Agnes Volestrangler XIII

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Aug 8, 2005, 5:47:41 PM8/8/05
to

The professionals aren't necessarily interested in a paint that will
last extra-long. They want one that will give good coverage with
minimal work (plenty of pigment) and ease of use whether spray, roller
or brush application. Whether it lasts 4 years or 10 isn't their worry.
When you do your own painting on your own house don't you want it to
last for years and years and years........ ? I do.

Cheaper paints often have less pigment so you get poorer coverage. OK
if you like doing an extra coat - but then does it end up cheaper?

A L P

Barry Lennox

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Aug 8, 2005, 9:03:15 PM8/8/05
to

You might suggest they try this outfit for containers, I almost went
with them, but the delay was going to be too long to suit me. ie, I
had to wait for several days/weeks? before one came up, and they were
all Asian, and very hard to understand. The girl who spoke good
English was off sick! But their prices were good.

Unipac Shipping
535 Brea Canyon Rd
Walnut CA 91789
T 909 594-2600
F 909 594 9277

You might also take the opportunity to get some bulk orders with
neigbours and friends to help fill a container. Nothing quite so
useless as spare space in a container!


Message has been deleted

ta...@inspire.not.nz

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Aug 8, 2005, 10:20:05 PM8/8/05
to

Thanks Barry, excellent idea!

Richard

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Aug 8, 2005, 10:45:56 PM8/8/05
to
>>and sell at $12 or $14 for a 3.8 litre, and some of the colours arnt too bad
>>either. Its good stuff too, doesnt splatter like the crap that the warehouse sell.
>>
>>Guess where I got all the paint for the bedrooms here :) they also have an ok
>>sealer for under $30 a pail
>
>
> Good tip, ta. But which warehouse paint did you find splattered? Acrylic?
> They carry a couple of brands IIRC.

Was just called New Zealand Paints. I got the ceiling paint, it went on but took
4 coats to cover properly. The dulux one coat stuff only took 2 to hide all the
water marks.

Richard

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Aug 8, 2005, 10:47:35 PM8/8/05
to
Warwick wrote:

> Bear in mind, if a paint is guaranteed for 10 years, you buy it and let it
> sit in the can for 5, then it has aged 5 years in the can, and now only has
> 5 years left. So I'd be wary of buying American rejects.

The docket taped to one I got from walmart showed it was returned 3 months
earlier. I hardly needed to stir it either, unlike some paint i have bought that
has started to settle out within hours of stiring.

Agnes Volestrangler XIII

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Aug 9, 2005, 12:24:56 AM8/9/05
to

You had water marks on the ceiling?

The rule for painting over stains is - water stains, paint over with an
oil based undercoat. Oil stains, use water based undercoat.

A L P

Richard

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Aug 9, 2005, 12:40:13 AM8/9/05
to
Agnes Volestrangler XIII wrote:

> You had water marks on the ceiling?
>
> The rule for painting over stains is - water stains, paint over with an
> oil based undercoat. Oil stains, use water based undercoat.

I dont know what it was exactly, all I know is I wanted it covered so I could
rent the room out.

BAM

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Aug 9, 2005, 1:43:15 AM8/9/05
to

Yeah , It's fucking rough if you're into DIY.
Here's another example of what sort of markup paint companies are running.
British paints (which is dulux) $27.00 for 10 litres of white based
paint!, but only if you run a trade account
When someone quotes you $15k to paint your house there's probably only
$1500 for materials.

Warwick

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Aug 9, 2005, 2:39:55 AM8/9/05
to
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 20:16:56 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:


>
> Never having been to Fiji, I can't compare. It's certainly not as hot
> as where I grew up, and it's not as extreme in terms of weather as
> Oklahoma, but paint costs three times as much, both interior and
> exterior.

It has nothing to do with heat. It is UV content. If you paint a roof in
this country without protection your skin will blister after 4 hours
exposure (I am speaking with the voice of experience), yet you can go
shirtless in Greece for 2 weeks and never worry about sunblock. That is
because the hole in the ozone layer, largely made by northern hemisphere
residents, parked its arse over the southern hemisphere.

Benjamin Moore got into the business here, originally with American made
paints. Now they make their own here, because of problems, particularly
with bright colours.

If you ship your paint from the US you expose yourself to this risk and
simultaneously deny yourself warranty from the manufacturer. There may also
be difficulties getting more if you need to repaint something or extend the
building. I'd not advise it.

How much do you need?

best

Bruce Hoult

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Aug 9, 2005, 3:09:27 AM8/9/05
to
In article <4otgcm1cizml.6lkc27uqm3qg$.d...@40tude.net>,
Warwick <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> It has nothing to do with heat. It is UV content. If you paint a roof in
> this country without protection your skin will blister after 4 hours
> exposure (I am speaking with the voice of experience), yet you can go
> shirtless in Greece for 2 weeks and never worry about sunblock.

Yep.


> That is because the hole in the ozone layer, largely made by northern
> hemisphere residents, parked its arse over the southern hemisphere.

But that's rubbish. The ozone hole is nowhere near NZ and disappears in
spring as soon as the sun starts reaching the polar regions.

The high UV we get here is due to the *lack* of pollution in the air in
the southern hemisphere, not because of pollution.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

Warwick

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Aug 9, 2005, 5:07:25 AM8/9/05
to
On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:09:27 +1200, Bruce Hoult wrote:

> But that's rubbish. The ozone hole is nowhere near NZ and disappears in
> spring as soon as the sun starts reaching the polar regions.
>
> The high UV we get here is due to the *lack* of pollution in the air in
> the southern hemisphere, not because of pollution.

Thanks, that was some illusion I was labouring under. I've been hating
people from the Northern Hemispere on a bad principle, and wasting time
thinking how to move the bloody hole north at the same time. Pleased to be
corrected on that :)


But, is not UV burn a relatively new thing? I don't recall it being that
bad when I was growing up and people older than me often hold the same
view.
At the same time, surely air is more polluted now than it was then?

Barry Lennox

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Aug 9, 2005, 5:14:59 AM8/9/05
to

Actually, the very best for covering stains and watermarks is a
shellac base. The only one that seems available is Zinsser BIN, of USA
origin. The label says shellac and Titanium dioxide, so I suppose you
could mix your own.

It works incredibly well, IME.


shannon

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Aug 9, 2005, 6:03:08 AM8/9/05
to

Ross

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Aug 9, 2005, 6:33:14 AM8/9/05
to
On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:20:05 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:03:15 +1200, Barry Lennox
><rianz.1...@neverbox.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 22:00:12 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:
>
>>Unipac Shipping
>>535 Brea Canyon Rd
>>Walnut CA 91789
>>T 909 594-2600
>>F 909 594 9277
>>
>>You might also take the opportunity to get some bulk orders with
>>neigbours and friends to help fill a container. Nothing quite so
>>useless as spare space in a container!
>
>Thanks Barry, excellent idea!

I wonder if it's cheaper to import your own petrol?
- if you were allowed to, that is.

Ross

Bruce Hoult

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Aug 9, 2005, 7:55:44 AM8/9/05
to
In article <132e6yje6wnqp.5...@40tude.net>,
Warwick <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> But, is not UV burn a relatively new thing? I don't recall it being that
> bad when I was growing up and people older than me often hold the same
> view.
> At the same time, surely air is more polluted now than it was then?

When was that?

People didn't really start lying on the beach in skimpy bikinis until
the 60's. And they didn't worry about sunburn unless it was bad enough
to be painful. But check out their skin (and melanomas) now!

Redbaiter

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Aug 9, 2005, 8:06:20 AM8/9/05
to
Warwick says...

> At the same time, surely air is more polluted now than it was then?
>

You pig ignorant fuckwit.. you don't know do you.. you just think it
would be becasue you're a fucken mushroom fed bullshit by the
mainstream media, and its a theme that sticks out like dogs balls in
everything you write here.. fucken lamer leftist drongo..

----------------------------------

In other words, with respect to the worst pollutant the London air
has not been as clean as it is today since the Middle Ages. Almost
all of the modern period has been more polluted with smoke than it is
today. Air pollution is not a new phenomenon that has got worse and
worse - it is an old phenomenon, that has been getting better and
better, leaving London cleaner than it has been since medieval times.

Equally, the concentration of sulphur dioxide increased dramatically
from 1585, reaching a very high plateau - worse than most Third World
megacities of today - from 1700 to 1900, and then dropped fast, such
that again the levels of the 1980s-1990s are below the levels of the
late sixteenth century. So with respect to sulphur dioxide also, the
London air has not been cleaner than today since the Middle Ages.

The state of California has the largest and longest running air
toxins program, and of the six major pollutants discussed by EPA, all
have seen declines of 35-70 per cent. For the UK, measurements of six
metal concentrations in the London air from 1976 to 1993 all show
decreasing concentrations, from 50 per cent reductions in chromium
and copper, 66 per cent in cadmium and zinc, to 75 per cent in nickel
and 87 per cent in lead.

The achievement of dramatically decreasing concentrations of the
major air pollutants in the Western world is amazing by itself. But
it is all the more impressive that it has been attained while the
economy and the potential polluters have increased dramatically - in
the USA, the total number of car miles travelled has more than
doubled over the past 30 years. The economy has likewise more than
doubled, and the population has increased by more than a third.
Nevertheless, over the same period emissions have decreased by a
third and concentrations much more.

Bjorn Lomborg
The Skeptical Environmentalist



alic...@yahoo.com

unread,
Aug 9, 2005, 9:13:26 AM8/9/05
to

ta...@inspire.not.nz, maybe I should have said DiMaggio:

> That's true enough in general, but the price of house paint is
> outrageous. Seriously, I bought five gallons (equiv.) of paint and it
> cost me a couple of hundred dollars! I could have purchased the same
> quality and quantity of paint for about a quarter of that price back
> in the US.

Sounds like a business opportunity is waving its hand in your face.

I'll be painting some trim on my house in about 15 minues. FWIW,
1 gallon of good quaility exterior paint is about $22US. The
cheap stuff is about $13 and the high-end is about $35.

-Tom Enright

anon k

unread,
Aug 9, 2005, 9:18:39 AM8/9/05
to
Warwick wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 20:16:56 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:
>
>
>
>>Never having been to Fiji, I can't compare. It's certainly not as hot
>>as where I grew up, and it's not as extreme in terms of weather as
>>Oklahoma, but paint costs three times as much, both interior and
>>exterior.
>
>
> It has nothing to do with heat. It is UV content. If you paint a roof in
> this country without protection your skin will blister after 4 hours
> exposure (I am speaking with the voice of experience), yet you can go
> shirtless in Greece for 2 weeks and never worry about sunblock. That is
> because the hole in the ozone layer, largely made by northern hemisphere
> residents, parked its arse over the southern hemisphere.

The difference in air pollution, I think, may make a big difference in
addition to the thinning ozone above NZ.

ta...@inspire.not.nz

unread,
Aug 9, 2005, 3:12:08 PM8/9/05
to
On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:24:56 +1200, Agnes Volestrangler XIII
<b|uebi...@clear.net.nz> wrote:

What is the thinking behind that? In art, you never paint water over
oil, only oil over water.
--
Reverend Mutha Tarla Star
*****
The Little Sisters of the Perpetually Juicy, worshipping
"Connie" Dobbs and Juicy Retardo since 1986. Another fine subsidiary
of Dobbs Industries. All rights reserved.
*****

ta...@inspire.not.nz

unread,
Aug 9, 2005, 4:21:22 PM8/9/05
to

Manufacturer's warranty? Pfft. As if. This house is not going to be
changed in any significant way unless the architect comes out of
retirement.


>
>How much do you need?

Hell if I know. I don't need it yet. I was just riled up at the price
of paint.
--
*****
I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a
vegetarian because I hate plants. -A. Whitney Brown
*****

ta...@inspire.not.nz

unread,
Aug 9, 2005, 4:24:00 PM8/9/05
to
On 9 Aug 2005 06:13:26 -0700, alic...@yahoo.com wrote:

>
>ta...@inspire.not.nz, maybe I should have said DiMaggio:
>
>> That's true enough in general, but the price of house paint is
>> outrageous. Seriously, I bought five gallons (equiv.) of paint and it
>> cost me a couple of hundred dollars! I could have purchased the same
>> quality and quantity of paint for about a quarter of that price back
>> in the US.
>
>Sounds like a business opportunity is waving its hand in your face.

Yes it does, doesn't it? Capital would be the problem at this point,
however. A paint manufacturing plant could cost quite a bit to set up.

>
>I'll be painting some trim on my house in about 15 minues. FWIW,
>1 gallon of good quaility exterior paint is about $22US. The
>cheap stuff is about $13 and the high-end is about $35.

That's about what I remembered it being. Interior is slightly cheaper.

Agnes Volestrangler XIII

unread,
Aug 9, 2005, 7:25:10 PM8/9/05
to
ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:24:56 +1200, Agnes Volestrangler XIII
> <b|uebi...@clear.net.nz> wrote:

>>
>>The rule for painting over stains is - water stains, paint over with an
>>oil based undercoat. Oil stains, use water based undercoat.
>
>
> What is the thinking behind that? In art, you never paint water over
> oil, only oil over water.

Dunno really. Especially about the water stains. But oil will migrate
through oil, so the stain comes through. Undercoat is formulated to
stick to most things, well, better than top-coat does. So I suppose the
idea is to put a barrier between the old stain and the new paint. As
Barry Lennox said shellac is a great barrier for the purpose but unless
people have a major problem they probably won't have any and ready-mixed
is expensive. Chances are the average householder and his/her best
friend have tins of undercoats so they won't have to go out to the
specialist paint shop on Sunday when the painting job can't be put off
any longer.

A L P

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Barry Lennox

unread,
Aug 10, 2005, 3:26:00 PM8/10/05
to
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:07:57 -0500,
texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.. wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:24:56 +1200, Agnes Volestrangler XIII
><b|uebi...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>

>
>Don't you have a product such as Killz?
>
>Covers anything and everything.

I don't think I have seen Killz in NZ, it's an Alkyd Resin (oil-based)
primer with loads of Magnesium Silicate and Titanium dioxide.

Similar to Zinsser BIN, which is available from Mitre 10 and Bunnings,
and maybe others, and works extremely well. BIN is shellac-based so
has a shelf life (usually printed on the can bottom) and seals over
almost anything or any finish.


Geoff M

unread,
Aug 12, 2005, 10:29:06 PM8/12/05
to
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 23:45:20 +1200, RdM wrote:

> texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.. in
> nz.general<uirdf1dhqmfeesh9d...@4ax.com>:


>> On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 01:37:07 GMT, ta...@inspire.not.nz wrote:
>>
>>>Do we not have any paint manufacturing plants in the country? Does it
>>>all have to be imported or something? Why is it so damned expensive?
>>

>> Because there are no Walmarts....
>
> OTOH The Warehouse sells a range of NZ-made paint @ ~$39.95/4l.
>
> These (or some at least) are made by Reid Paints as per my other post.

A few years ago, I bought some of the Warehouse enamel paint, made by
Resene at that time. It was terrible - to cut the cost, it was so thin 3
coats were needed to do the job of 2, and tended to run. It was ok for the
workshop doors, but i wouldn't use it for anything important.
The "Project" brand paint from Placemakers has been good paint.
Geoff

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