FIVE - NILL --- Now To Take On Alinghi
E. Scrooge
The new sail on LR hardly made any difference. Big drop in wind on the last
leg.
E. Scrooge
vitw
A lot of the credit goes to the Team NZ afterguard tacticians, who during
the beats seem to sniff out the lifts like an airport dog sniffs out
drugs.
Finding lifts is an intuitive art, based on interpreting the subtle
changes of water colour, whitecaps etc. Can make a difference of over a
minute per leg, and can more than override an opponent's advantages in
other areas, since a lift can give a 10 degree or more advantage for large
parts of the upwind leg.
Lift-picking made the single biggest difference in at least 3 of the races
of the Louis Vuitton final.
Another advantage Team NZ will have in the America's Cup will be Barker's
sense of unfinished business and continued loyalty, and ongoing support
from NZ, versus Coots/Butterworth's sense of betrayal and selling out.
I pick Emirates Team NZ to win the Cup, but not necessarily by a big
margin.
JohnO
I don't buy this betrayal/sellout business. Those guys didn't owe
TeamNZ or NZ anything. Quite the reverse. They'd given their all to
win and defend the cup but they are paid professionals, and they
weren't getting any jollies from doing the same defense once again.
Would the sactimonious, holier-than-thou types around here turn down
millions to go sail for Allinghi? I doubt it.
sam
Ernesto bought a winning team.
He doesn't have the winning helmsman anymore though, but he has bought
Jochen Schuemann, Ed Baird and Peter Holmberg. and flown in Peter
Gilmour for sparring. He has changed from Jochen Schuemann in the Acts
to Ed Baird for the cup match. The guys are talking up the tech
advantage they think they have in the press etc. Just like Oracle eh.
Lets see who falls for it.
Team New Zealands performance has been the equal of anything we have
ever seen Butterworth Fleury Daubney Jones and Phipps do.
Tilly
Hehehehe.........an excellent result .So much for your talent and knowledge
about yacht racing and forecasting the outcome of yacht races.
Scrooge:
> "Prada is the better boat, they just don't have Dean Barker on board.
Team
> NZ is also stuck with geriatric Grant Dalton who isn't fit enough to be
on
> the boat".
Roger Dewhurst
"Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f47nqn$nq7$1...@aioe.org...
>
> Scrooge:
> > "Prada is the better boat, they just don't have Dean Barker on board.
> Team
> > NZ is also stuck with geriatric Grant Dalton who isn't fit enough to be
> on
> > the boat".
Both those comments are pretty cretinous.
R
Tilly
E. Scrooge
"JohnO" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181171316.7...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
They weren't exactly only getting paid 2 cents for sailing for Team NZ.
The greed of Coutts was even too much for Alinghi's very wealthy owner. It
was Team NZ that gave Coutts and Butterworth their big break. The new rules
where that have to miss an America;s Cup when leaving a team is a rule all
about loyalty and a rule that Alinghio owner decided to introduce.
Coutts is mud, he's also been beaten by dean barker many times over the
years. Now Dickson may well have sailed in his last AC. On the best team
and yet his results couldn't match his mouth. As Dennis said many years ago
Dickson is full of shit.
Something is wrong if Dean Barker doesn't get presented with a major
sporting award.
E. Scrooge
E. Scrooge
"Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f47sbf$6ks$1...@aioe.org...
Only sauce you know of is Watties.
Dalton was mostly out of sight doing the boy's job down in the hold tidying
up the sails.
Dean Barker kept the speed down so as not to give too much away to Alinghi.
Every time he let LR close in a bit he would get the distance quickly back
again.
E. Scrooge
Tilly
> Only sauce you know of is Watties.
> Dalton was mostly out of sight doing the boy's job down in the hold
> tidying up the sails.
>
> Dean Barker kept the speed down so as not to give too much away to
> Alinghi. Every time he let LR close in a bit he would get the
> distance quickly back again.
>
> E. Scrooge
Geez you talk rubbish. You never stop.
Roger Dewhurst
"E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
news:1181188963.826560@ftpsrv1...
>
> "Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f47sbf$6ks$1...@aioe.org...
> > Roger Dewhurst wrote:
> >> "Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:f47nqn$nq7$1...@aioe.org...
> >> >
> >> > Scrooge:
> >> > > "Prada is the better boat, they just don't have Dean Barker on
> >> > > board. Team NZ is also stuck with geriatric Grant Dalton who
> >> > > isn't fit enough to be on the boat".
> >>
> >> Both those comments are pretty cretinous.
> >>
> >> R
> >
> > .....and fairly typical given the source! LOL
>
> Only sauce you know of is Watties.
> Dalton was mostly out of sight doing the boy's job down in the hold
tidying
> up the sails.
His real job has been organizing the whole show, raising the money and
keeping everyone motivated. That he has been out in the boat doing one of
the shittiest jobs instead of decision making in the afterguard reflect
exceedingly well on him.
R
E. Scrooge
"Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@wave.co.nz> wrote in message
news:f480mt$nv2$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Full credit to his management ability which was due to his successes in a
completely different class of racing.
Too bad the management wasn't a lot better in 2003. They might've still
lost but at least they would've had a competitive and reliable boat.
E. Scrooge
E. Scrooge
"Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f480lm$l4t$1...@aioe.org...
You're getting yours in. What are you complaining about?
E. Scrooges
bharmer
(*sling)> wrote:
>
>"Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f47sbf$6ks$1...@aioe.org...
>> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>> "Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:f47nqn$nq7$1...@aioe.org...
>>> >
>>> > Scrooge:
>>> > > "Prada is the better boat, they just don't have Dean Barker on
>>> > > board. Team NZ is also stuck with geriatric Grant Dalton who
>>> > > isn't fit enough to be on the boat".
>>>
>>> Both those comments are pretty cretinous.
>>>
>>> R
>>
>> .....and fairly typical given the source! LOL
>
>Only sauce you know of is Watties.
>Dalton was mostly out of sight doing the boy's job down in the hold tidying
>up the sails.
You can find a list of the crew at
http://www.emiratesteamnz.com/ot_sailingteam.aspx
Dalton is not a member of the sailing crew.
Just like Graham Henry isn't in the lineouts.
sam
> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 16:08:01 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
> (*sling)> wrote:
>
>> "Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f47sbf$6ks$1...@aioe.org...
>>> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>>> "Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:f47nqn$nq7$1...@aioe.org...
>>>>> Scrooge:
>>>>>> "Prada is the better boat, they just don't have Dean Barker on
>>>>>> board. Team NZ is also stuck with geriatric Grant Dalton who
>>>>>> isn't fit enough to be on the boat".
>>>> Both those comments are pretty cretinous.
>>>>
>>>> R
>>> .....and fairly typical given the source! LOL
>> Only sauce you know of is Watties.
>> Dalton was mostly out of sight doing the boy's job down in the hold tidying
>> up the sails.
>
> You can find a list of the crew at
> http://www.emiratesteamnz.com/ot_sailingteam.aspx
>
> Dalton is not a member of the sailing crew.
> Just like Graham Henry isn't in the lineouts.
>
He has sailed in every race as a grinder and sewer rat
sam
He is the key motivator in the crew, he does it by working harder than
everyone else.
Many of the sailors aboard have raced around the world with him, he is
New Zealands most successful offshore sailor, and is totally respected
internationally.
You obviously don't have a clue about anything to do with sailing.
How stupid are you ?
sam
Alinghi aren't sailing in this contest.
Are you drunk ?
Tilly
> What the FUCK are you BLATHERING about now ??
> Alinghi aren't sailing in this contest.
> Are you drunk ?
No, he's an ignoramus when it comes to sailing. LOL
E. Scrooge
"sam" <s...@green.eggs.ham> wrote in message news:46679cbf$1...@clear.net.nz...
Sure Waddell has does nothing else according to you.
Same with a few others on the team as well probably. A grinder has to be
fit which Waddell is and for very good reasons due to his non sailing
achievements. Dalton isn't fit to be a main grinder any more than you are.
Waddell on;y became part of the team when doing the 2003 campaign.
A secret Team NZ member is Brad Butterworth who will be doing what he can to
throw the races and sabotage Alinghi.
E. Scrooge
Tilly
You really can't stop yourself spewing crap can you.
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself?
E. Scrooge
"sam" <s...@green.eggs.ham> wrote in message news:46679d3e$1...@clear.net.nz...
If Alinghi don't plan on defending the AC in the actual AC races which are
due to start in a month's time for you (but in 2 weeks time for everyone
else), then just who the Hell do think Team NZ will be sailing against,
genius?
No doubt you'll be expecting to see the Chinese boat racing in a month's
time.
LOL
E. Scrooge
E. Scrooge
"Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f48ake$pbh$1...@aioe.org...
You'd believe anything, it's quite pitiful really.
E. Scrooge
JohnO
> "JohnO" <johno1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
They weren't getting rich either.
> The greed of Coutts was even too much for Alinghi's very wealthy owner.
Talking through your arse again, Scrooge? Coutts left because he
didn't get the event management role he expected. It was nothing to do
with money.
> It
> was Team NZ that gave Coutts and Butterworth their big break. The new rules
> where that have to miss an America;s Cup when leaving a team is a rule all
> about loyalty and a rule that Alinghio owner decided to introduce.
> Coutts is mud, he's also been beaten by dean barker many times over the
> years. Now Dickson may well have sailed in his last AC. On the best team
> and yet his results couldn't match his mouth. As Dennis said many years ago
> Dickson is full of shit.
>
> Something is wrong if Dean Barker doesn't get presented with a major
> sporting award.
>
> E. Scrooge- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
sam
> sam wrote:
>> What the FUCK are you BLATHERING about now ??
>> Alinghi aren't sailing in this contest.
>> Are you drunk ?
>
> No, he's an ignoramus when it comes to sailing. LOL
>
>
Best to ignore.
Tilly
Sue Bilstein
>sam wrote:
>> Tilly wrote:
>> > sam wrote:
>>>> Dean Barker kept the speed down so as not to give too much away to Alinghi.
>>>> Every time he let LR close in a bit he would get the distance quickly back
>>>> again.
>
>> > > What the FUCK are you BLATHERING about now ??
>> > > Alinghi aren't sailing in this contest.
>> > > Are you drunk ?
>> >
>> > No, he's an ignoramus when it comes to sailing. LOL
>> >
>> >
>> He's just trolling
>> Best to ignore.
>
>No..James is serious.
Did it ever occur to either of you two geniuses that the Alinghi team
were watching the finals of the Louis Vuitton Cup? THAT'S what
Scrooge was talking about. Quite obvious really.
Doh ...
E. Scrooge
Coutts was never management material. Peter Blake gave the lad a chance, a
chance that also gave Coutts a very good living away from working at
McDonalds.
E. Scrooge
JohnO
McDonalds? McDonnell Douglas more likely.
You do know that Coutts has a degree in engineering, don't you? Given
how silly you generally look when discussing yachting I wouold gess
not.
sam
Gosh no, I never would have guessed.
They also have the entire virtual spectator data set, the helicopter
shots down the mast, expert sail designers hull designers, rigging
designers, tactical, strategic and statistical analysts and coaches who
aren't at all interested in the differences between ETNZ and LR, thats
history.
The next match will be sailed in a different wind range and sea state
with different sails, different wing and rudder configuration.
About all they could take from the last match is that ETNZ might take
the bait on a dummy gybe if they are behind.
The two crews have raced each other many times and they have a 50:50 record.
Sue Bilstein
>Sue Bilstein wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 20:16:19 +1200, "Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> sam wrote:
>>>> Tilly wrote:
>>>>> sam wrote:
>>>>>> Scrooge wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Dean Barker kept the speed down so as not to give too much away to Alinghi.
>>>>>> Every time he let LR close in a bit he would get the distance quickly back
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>> What the FUCK are you BLATHERING about now ??
>>>>>> Alinghi aren't sailing in this contest.
>>>>>> Are you drunk ?
>>>>> No, he's an ignoramus when it comes to sailing. LOL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> He's just trolling
>>>> Best to ignore.
>>> No..James is serious.
>>
>>
>> Did it ever occur to either of you two geniuses that the Alinghi team
>> were watching the finals of the Louis Vuitton Cup? THAT'S what
>> Scrooge was talking about. Quite obvious really.
>>
>> Doh ...
>
>Gosh no, I never would have guessed.
>>>>> What the FUCK are you BLATHERING about now ??
>>>>> Alinghi aren't sailing in this contest.
Evidently not.
E. Scrooge
Must be why so many teams are keen to have Coutts even though Alinghi aren't
after making Coutts walk the plank.
Does Alinghi know that they dumped the God of sailing?
E. Scrooge
E. Scrooge
"sam" <s...@green.eggs.ham> wrote in message news:4667d1d9$1...@clear.net.nz...
Due to your deafness you wouldn't have heard Dean Barker state that the team
has just got better and better with the handling of the boat. Even the guy
from LR said that Team NZ hardly made any mistakes which made it even harder
for LR to beat them.
A boat with the name Oracle has beaten Alinghi before as well. Hardly means
much as the boats are no longer the same as a couple of years back.
Good to hear that you'll be cranking up the wind for them though. Perhaps
you'd like to shove the odd whale on different parts of the course as well
just to give them a little extra to contend with as well?
E. Scrooge
bharmer
Why don't they list him on their web site then?
JohnO
Duh! Because the rules state he can't sail for any other team in this
regatta.
> Does Alinghi know that they dumped the God of sailing?
Duh! He quit. Bertarelli didn't pay him 20 mil just to turn around and
dump him.
>
Don't you ever tire of looking a fool in htese AC threads?
sam
They do in the daily news results
http://www.emiratesteamnz.com/news/070606_01.aspx
Tilly
.....and we will all be hanging out for your predictions because you know so
much about sailing and racing.
Scrooge:
> "Prada is the better boat, they just don't have Dean Barker on board.
Team
> NZ is also stuck with geriatric Grant Dalton who isn't fit enough to be
on
> the boat".
sam
LOL
"We never ever felt it was a comfortable series, it was always very
tight. (NZ)" Translation: We stuffed ‘em and stuffed ‘em proper.
Our guys are good but it is always more competitive when up against
another team.” (NZ with a brainflow problem). Translation: We are never
very good when we only have one boat on the race course cos we always win.
“I am glad that is over! That was the potentially the hardest race, the
hardest couple of legs we have had in a long time - you can’t credit
Luna Rossa enough for never going away! (NZ with stars in their eyes).
Translation: Luna Rossa could never have gone away because we never even
realised that they had even arrived.
“We came out with the same attitude we have every day, trying to treat
it like every other race, but the Kiwis just sailed a fantastic
series.(LR looking for an acceptable and humane release from their
nightmare). Translation: We spent hours looking for the wrong side of
the course and when we finally found it, the Kiwis kicked our asses.
"Every time I asked for a little bit more they rose to the challenge,
but at the end of the day the Kiwis were just too strong.” LR
Translation: Every time I asked the guys to pull us on to the wrong side
of the course, they just dug in and helped us to get our asses kicked by
the Kiwis some more.
"It’s a little surprising, I think both teams might have thought it
would go the full nine races." (LR, wishing they’d never bothered to
turn up). Translation: And then hell froze over like everybody said it
would after watching the first race
"I think they had a little edge on speed. (LR Understatement of the
year)." Translation: We couldn’t see their asses for dust.
"A little mistake from them might have changed the outcome of the finals
a little bit." (LR, we were praying for their mast to fall down),
Translation: A fuck up on the Kiwi boat may have made the winning deltas
about 45 seconds instead of a minute.
From SailingAnarchy
Tilly
> Coutts was never management material. Peter Blake gave the lad a
> chance, a chance that also gave Coutts a very good living away from
> working at McDonalds.
>
> E. Scrooge
Russell Coutts has a degree in engineering and you have the gall to say that
without yachting or Sir Peter Blake he would be working in Mc Donalds.
You are a complete dolt..
Tilly
>
> Must be why so many teams are keen to have Coutts even though Alinghi
> aren't after making Coutts walk the plank.
> Does Alinghi know that they dumped the God of sailing?
>
> E. Scrooge
Actually Russell Coutts decided to walk because he didn't agree with Team
Alinghi choosing Valencia as the location for staging the cup.
Tilly
John B
Why? There's plenty of people with degrees who are on the bones
of their arse and don't know how to earn some decent crust.
Most people with degrees end up in dead-end boring fucking jobs
with poor pay. Either that, or they sell their soul and go work
for the govt in grey suits and grey buildings. Nothing could be
more demoralizing.
Don't you have a degree, Tilly? Are you on $100,000 a year now?
John B
Bullshit! High and mighty enough you can chuck away fame and
fortune because you don't like the venue? Yeah... right.
Pull the other one you silly billy, Tilly.
E. Scrooge
htese ACC threads are most interesting.
I'm not sure if the rules state he sail for another team or can't work for
another team as well.
Coutts was dumped because of his demands. Even Butterworth said Coutts was
being unreasonable which is why Butterworth didn't leave with Coutts and why
a few other Kiwis didn't leave with Coutts as well.
E. Scrooge
E. Scrooge
It was never his choice to decide on the venue. Butterworth and the other
Kiwis realised that. Instead of walking with Coutts, Butterworth and co
simply said, "so long sucker".
E. Scrooge
Tilly
That was his main reason for leaving.
Now since I actually know Russell.......
Tilly
Tilly
John B
You apparently don't know him very well then.
John B
bharmer
Thanks Sam, I stand corrected.
E. Scrooge
"Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f48t40$sm6$1...@aioe.org...
No one else had a problem with the venue apart from TVNZ who rubbished it
every moment that they could to begin with.
You might be interested to know that Tiger Woods is giving up golf because
he's sick and tired of playing on most American golf courses, especially
Augusta of all places.
Helen Clark is leaving parliament for exactly the same reasons you have
given for Coutts, she's sick and tired of Wellington and will be staying at
home in Auckland from now on, planning to spend more time going to funerals
of people that she doesn't even know but there's good coffee and food served
afterwards without it costing her a thing.
E. Scrooge
E. Scrooge
"Tilly" <Til...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f48t6u$t8o$1...@aioe.org...
You must be due to paint the roof of your house again by now then.
E. Scrooge