Knighthoods Are Back
John Cawston
Titular Honours to be reinstated
Prime Minister John Key has announced that titles are to be
reinstated in the New Zealand Honours system.
This situation existed when the New Zealand Honours system was
first established in 1996 and the first two levels of the New
Zealand Order of Merit were titular.
This will mean the return of the titles of Knight and Dame Grand
Companion (GNZM) and Knight and Dame Companion (KNZM/DNZM).
"The Queen has given approval for the reinstatement of titles.
The changes will be finalised and come into effect in time for
the Queen's Birthday honours list in June.
"It is my pleasure to be able to reinstate these titles that will
recognise the service of outstanding New Zealanders."
There are 85 New Zealanders who were appointed Principal and
Distinguished Companions of the New Zealand Order of Merit
between 2000 and 2008 who will now be given the opportunity to
accept a title.
"Before the election I commented publicly that the granting of
titles was a matter that would be looked at by an incoming
National Government.
"This is about celebrating success."
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
> http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/titular+honours+be+reinstated
>
> Titular Honours to be reinstated
>
> Prime Minister John Key has announced that titles are to be
> reinstated in the New Zealand Honours system.
> "Before the election I commented publicly that the granting of
> titles was a matter that would be looked at by an incoming
> National Government.
>
> "This is about celebrating success."
Another of Labour's un-consulted attempts at social engineering is
peeled back!
I dont actually remember Key mentioning this, but am non-plussed
either way (and its unlikely to ever effect me as I doubt I'll be
ranked alongside Ed Hillary or Peter Gluckman (or Bill Birch and
Selwyn Cushing for that matter!)) but it must really stick in the
throat of Labour's compulsion-freaks that:
- a pet idea is peeled back so quickly
- National appear to be following through on
election promises (which is quite a starnge
concept for Labour-ites to grasp)
whoisthis
John Cawston <rewa...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
excellent, something that has recognition all around the world, New
Zealanders are world class people so they should be recognised with a
world class title.
-Newsman-
<misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 8, 4:32=A0pm, John Cawston <rewar...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>> http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/titular+honours+be+reinstated
>>
>> Titular Honours to be reinstated
>>
>> Prime Minister John Key has announced that titles are to be
>> reinstated in the New Zealand Honours system.
>[snip]
>> "Before the election I commented publicly that the granting of
>> titles was a matter that would be looked at by an incoming
>> National Government.
>>
>> "This is about celebrating success."
>
>Another of Labour's un-consulted attempts at social engineering is
>peeled back!
When titled Brits go abroad, everyone knows exactly what their titles
mean and their rankings. In fact, ever since th Boston Tea Party,
Americans have doted on the British titles system - even craving but
never achieving one of their own - so much so that in the US a Sir or
a Dame will open doors like nothing else can. But when titled Kiwis
go abroad, ONZ has been far too often embarrassingly interpreted as
Ordinary New Zealander. So while for centuries legions of British Sirs
and Dames have been dining high off the hog at the top table for, as
has been their easy habit, the obscurely ennobled Johnny-come-lately
Kiwi has been consigned to the scrub sink three floors below. But at
least he will have been fully trained to deal with any grease fire
that may break out down there, so he can claim that as work
experience.
Now, any right minded person will tell you this is simply not fair.
So, give Clark and her mob their due. It's just that the "new" titles
were an attempt to manufacture some kind of unique NZ "identity"
(still forever searching, eh?). But from the start anyone could see
the socialist titles were prosaic, incomprehensible, look-alike,
sound-alike acronyms. So the inevitable happened: people immediately
tried work out the equivalent British titular rankings. Such clumsy
attempts at defining and claiming class and rank equivalence even kept
happening on TVNZ, but then at TVNZ you're dealing with baboons
anyway.
>I dont actually remember Key mentioning this, but am non-plussed
>either way (and its unlikely to ever effect me as I doubt I'll be
>ranked alongside Ed Hillary or Peter Gluckman (or Bill Birch and
>Selwyn Cushing for that matter!)) but it must really stick in the
>throat of Labour's compulsion-freaks that:
> - a pet idea is peeled back so quickly
> - National appear to be following through on
> election promises (which is quite a starnge
> concept for Labour-ites to grasp)
Just another bugger's muddle, so don't let it get to you.
In the end, and squirm though you may, there's simply no escaping the
fact that in every egalitarian Kiwi - but only the few ambitious ones,
mind - there's really a true blue, class-obsessed Brit trying to get
out; not least Key who will be knocking for a knighthood before he's
even exited Premier House, even if he fucks up in the meantime.
And you know I'm right.
Gordon
> http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/titular+honours+be+reinstated
>
> Titular Honours to be reinstated
>
> Prime Minister John Key has announced that titles are to be
> reinstated in the New Zealand Honours system.
>
[snip]
> "It is my pleasure to be able to reinstate these titles that will
> recognise the service of outstanding New Zealanders."
>
[snip]
>
> "This is about celebrating success."
As my Father used to say, It goes with the job/position.
I would say with the ego.
Still there are the exception, Charles Upham for one. Offered a Knighthood
and told them where they could place it.
Politicians by their nature are not modest. Still someone has to do the
dirty jobs
Gordon
ROTFL, excellent satire
peterwn
>
> Titular Honours to be reinstated
>
This is hardly the actions of a labour-lite government.
I was personally surprised at this, I thought the clock would never be
turned back on this. I was doubly surprised that it is being done
retrospectively, I thought those in question would have had to be re-
honoured.
A commentator said that it must be gut-wrenching for opposition MP's
to see their pet policies dismantled by an incoming government. Must
be particularly gut wrenching for Helen. Incidentally she would
almost certainly be in line for a damehood in the next list in
recognition of her long political career and nine years as Prime
Minister.
Fred
"peterwn" <pet...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:b09c8369-2339-4d2a...@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Yes. She'll look pretty pathetic if she accepts it.
A _L_ P
> In article <gove8t$fc$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz>,
> John Cawston <rewa...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/titular+honours+be+reinstated
>>
>> Titular Honours to be reinstated
>>
>> Prime Minister John Key has announced that titles are to be
>> reinstated in the New Zealand Honours system.
>>
>>
>> "This is about celebrating success."
>
> excellent, something that has recognition all around the world, New
> Zealanders are world class people so they should be recognised with a
> world class title.
Me-too: you beat me to it. What was the point of recognising
outstanding people with honours, then 2 days after they were announced
nobody could remember to whom they were awarded?
A L P
vitw
>> Titular Honours to be reinstated
> Another of Labour's un-consulted attempts at social engineering is
> peeled back!
So when does Key reinstate the mandatory National Service for kids
turning 18?
A _L_ P
> In the end, and squirm though you may, there's simply no escaping the
> fact that in every egalitarian Kiwi - but only the few ambitious ones,
> mind - there's really a true blue, class-obsessed Brit trying to get
> out; not least Key who will be knocking for a knighthood before he's
> even exited Premier House, even if he fucks up in the meantime.
>
As misanthropic curmudgeon already pointed out, it's not just people
with a chance of getting a gong who thought the Labour invisible honours
were a crap way of acknowledging outstanding NZers' contributions.
We're not all like you - and I'm sure you'll take that as a compliment.
So go ahead - whatever it takes for you to feed your illusions of
superiority.
Meanwhile the Liberian registered rustbucket SS Newsman drifts into the
rancid Bay of Irrelevancy with the Captain standing to attention on the
bridge saluting seagulls.
> And you know I'm right.
As if! No, you're still operating in your usual mode.
A L P
Miche
Funny, I always felt that way about knighthoods. Why should I care
about whether or not a NZ'er gets a pat on the back from someone in the
UK?
Miche
--
Electricians do it in three phases
peterwn
> "peterwn" <pete...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
I think she would accept the honour but not the 'title'
Gib Bogle
The fatuousness of this statement leaves me at a loss for words.
John Cawston
Key basically gets it anyway as a PM, so it's hardly an incentive.
No, I posted this because of the delicious ironies that it will
throw up and the pure angst we'll see played out.
It's already started (TV3) with Ranganui Walker saying that he
initially didn't want to be seen in the same catagory as Sir
Roger Douglas and Sir Michael Fay..
I can understand that, after all his achievements are laughably
inferior to these two and result from political patronage of a
lifetime of negativity. However, he now says he'll accept the
upgrade.
A medical bloke is in no doubts that it's an international award
that will work well for him and NZ medicine.
Phil Goff is very disapproving.. but will have to watch in horror
as a procession of Labour toadies upgrade to first class, cheap
fares and the ability to skite they have the status of a Brian
Lochore instead of grubby little Marxists dependent on political
patronage for a livelihood.
>
> And you know I'm right.
And you know I am too.
JC
oneofus
Will Spencer
Can we also have the Privy Council back?
It's got to be better than that incestuous back scratching Supreme Kangaroo
Court.
-ws
Katipo
"John Cawston" <rewa...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:gove8t$fc$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/titular+honours+be+reinstated
>
> Titular Honours to be reinstated
>
> Prime Minister John Key has announced that titles are to be reinstated in
> the New Zealand Honours system.
>
Great news. All of a sudden my chances of being proclaimed Sir Katipo for
services to NZ.General have been greatly improved.
Of course, if a certain somebody becomes Dame Helen, I shall throw up all
over the newsgroup.
Sir /\**/\
-Newsman-
wrote:
>-Newsman- wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:44:10 -0800 (PST), Misanthropic Curmudgeon
>> <misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Just another bugger's muddle, so don't let it get to you.
>>
>> In the end, and squirm though you may, there's simply no escaping the
>> fact that in every egalitarian Kiwi - but only the few ambitious ones,
>> mind - there's really a true blue, class-obsessed Brit trying to get
>> out; not least Key who will be knocking for a knighthood before he's
>> even exited Premier House, even if he fucks up in the meantime.
>
>Key basically gets it anyway as a PM, so it's hardly an incentive.
>
>No, I posted this because of the delicious ironies that it will
>throw up and the pure angst we'll see played out.
>
>It's already started (TV3) with Ranganui Walker saying that he
>initially didn't want to be seen in the same catagory as Sir
>Roger Douglas and Sir Michael Fay..
>I can understand that, after all his achievements are laughably
>inferior to these two and result from political patronage of a
>lifetime of negativity. However, he now says he'll accept the
>upgrade.
And no one should be surprised.
This is the same man who, some years ago, was heard to say loud and
clear on National Radio, "The maori will always have his hand in the
white man's pocket." His cynical self-satisfaction said it all, so
nothing, it seems, has changed.
>
>A medical bloke is in no doubts that it's an international award
>that will work well for him and NZ medicine.
>
>Phil Goff is very disapproving.. but will have to watch in horror
>as a procession of Labour toadies upgrade to first class, cheap
>fares and the ability to skite they have the status of a Brian
>Lochore instead of grubby little Marxists dependent on political
>patronage for a livelihood.
>>
>> And you know I'm right.
>
>And you know I am too.
>
But there's more, isn't there? The gaggle of cynical little NZ
marxist upgrades will now be proudly rubbing shoulders with those four
Knights of the Realm who head the Scottish banks now being bailed out
by the British taxpayer. None of these Edinburgh club men have a
single banking or accountancy qualification between them.
Ho fucking hum.
Patrick FitzGerald
Knighthoods are a nonsense.
They mostly went to politicians and money grubbers.
They were rarely awarded to those who truly earned that honout for
services without other reward
Patrick
Patrick FitzGerald
<misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
> (or Bill Birch and
>Selwyn Cushing for that matter!))
ROFLOL.
Birch a knight !!
and Cushing !!
You are a really funny woman Miss Ann.
Patrick
Patrick FitzGerald
Why is John Don Key bringing pack knights.
I would be a cynic to propose that he thinking of the day when he can
award one to himself?
Patrick
Mutlley
What a load of crap. The only good thing that labor did over the past
9 years was to get this snobby British rewards system changed. The
only doors the British system opened were the ones into the first
class airline lounges..
In my opinion the who "honors" system should be scrapped after all
they only seem to go to people who do a job for money and not to those
who do community work who deserve them..
george
JohnO
> Why is John Don Key bringing pack knights.
What are "pack knights", Paddy?
Rich...@hotmail.com
wrote:
I doubt if the UK would want Nwe Zealand using the Privy Council -
unless we were prepared to pay a full share of costs, which would be
horrendousl expensive.
But Will probably has a point with his reference to Kangaroos - John
Key has shown that he likes giving money to Australia - first with
insurance companies (stalled because too many people realise it would
hugely increase costs), now prisons (soon to be stalled because too
many people realise it would higely increase costs), so Courts may be
the next step - demonstrate subservience to Australia by using their
Supreme Court.
galleria
> http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/titular+honours+be+reinstated
>
> Titular Honours to be reinstated
>
> Prime Minister John Key has announced that titles are to be
> reinstated in the New Zealand Honours system.
>
> This situation existed when the New Zealand Honours system was
> first established in 1996 and the first two levels of the New
> Zealand Order of Merit were titular.
>
> This will mean the return of the titles of Knight and Dame Grand
> Companion (GNZM) and Knight and Dame Companion (KNZM/DNZM).
>
> "The Queen has given approval for the reinstatement of titles.
> The changes will be finalised and come into effect in time for
> the Queen's Birthday honours list in June.
>
> "It is my pleasure to be able to reinstate these titles that will
> recognise the service of outstanding New Zealanders."
>
> There are 85 New Zealanders who were appointed Principal and
> Distinguished Companions of the New Zealand Order of Merit
> between 2000 and 2008 who will now be given the opportunity to
> accept a title.
>
> "Before the election I commented publicly that the granting of
> titles was a matter that would be looked at by an incoming
> National Government.
>
> "This is about celebrating success."
great to see some of Labour's idiotic ideas & legislations are being
reversed
A _L_ P
> On Mar 9, 5:56 am, Patrick FitzGerald <a...@b.com> wrote:
>> Why is John Don Key bringing pack knights.
>
> What are "pack knights", Paddy?
>
Silly JohnO, they are the men who carry the shopping home for their
ladies of course.
A L P
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
[snip]
> Phil Goff is very disapproving.. but will have to watch in horror
> as a procession of Labour toadies upgrade to first class, cheap
> fares and the ability to skite they have the status of a Brian
> Lochore instead of grubby little Marxists dependent on political
> patronage for a livelihood.
They'll be at the front of the queue, and their letters of acceptance
were probably in this mornings post.
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:44:10 -0800 (PST), Misanthropic Curmudgeon
>
> > (or Bill Birch and
> >Selwyn Cushing for that matter!))
>
> ROFLOL.
> Birch a knight !!
> and Cushing !!
Considering they are both 'honoured' with the title 'Sir'?
> You are a really funny woman Miss Ann.
Considering I am male?
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
[snip]
> Must
> be particularly gut wrenching for Helen. Incidentally she would
> almost certainly be in line for a damehood in the next list in
> recognition of her long political career and nine years as Prime
> Minister.
In one simple stroke, Key has:
- reversed (one of many) un-consulted significant
social engineering change(s) foisted on NZ by
Labour,
- put Helen in a very difficult position - having
a republican who banished damehoods
accept the damehood, or go honourless.
And all without spending a dime of taxpayer money!
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
[snip]
> John Key has shown that he likes giving money to
> Australia - first with insurance companies
This coming from the person who advicates compusory doing so?!?!?!?!
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
> On Mar 9, 5:56 am, Patrick FitzGerald <a...@b.com> wrote:
>
> > Why is John Don Key bringing pack knights.
>
> What are "pack knights", Paddy?
He is 'shirley'[1] confused.
[1] http://groups.google.com/group/nz.general/msg/bb0600e8b1438f22?dmode=source
Rich...@hotmail.com
<misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 8, 6:15 pm, peterwn <pete...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>[snip]
>> Must
>> be particularly gut wrenching for Helen. Incidentally she would
>> almost certainly be in line for a damehood in the next list in
>> recognition of her long political career and nine years as Prime
>> Minister.
>
>In one simple stroke, Key has:
> - reversed (one of many) un-consulted significant
> social engineering change(s) foisted on NZ by
> Labour,
The current change is possibly less 'consulted' than the original.
If this is considered significant social engineering then we really
are quite sensitive about any government intervention aren't we?
> - put Helen in a very difficult position - having
> a republican who banished damehoods
> accept the damehood, or go honourless.
>
>And all without spending a dime of taxpayer money!
Rubbish - of course it will cost. While the cost is small, it is
certainly more than buying an American dime.
Patrick FitzGerald
<misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
> - put Helen in a very difficult position - having
> a republican who banished damehoods
> accept the damehood, or go honourless.
>
Who is the republican you are referring to Miss Ann ?
Is it the great helmsman , Spud Bolger?
Patrick
Patrick FitzGerald
What do you *advicates* [sic] Miss Ann
Patrick
Patrick FitzGerald
wrote:
>On Mar 9, 5:56 am, Patrick FitzGerald <a...@b.com> wrote:
>> Why is John Don Key bringing pack knights.
>
>What are "pack knights", Paddy?
>
Beats me John
A google search suggest a connection with the Jedi and star wars.
Patrick
Patrick FitzGerald
<misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 9, 5:53 am, Patrick FitzGerald <a...@b.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:44:10 -0800 (PST), Misanthropic Curmudgeon
>>
>> <misanthropiccurmudg...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
>> > (or Bill Birch and
>> >Selwyn Cushing for that matter!))
>>
>> ROFLOL.
>> Birch a knight !!
>> and Cushing !!
>
>Considering they are both 'honoured' with the title 'Sir'?
That is a non sequitur, please try again
Patrick
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
> On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:28:33 -0700 (PDT), Misanthropic Curmudgeon
>
> > - put Helen in a very difficult position - having
> > a republican who banished damehoods
> > accept the damehood, or go honourless.
>
> Who is the republican you are referring to Miss Ann ?
> Is it the great helmsman , Spud Bolger?
Given that damehoods are the preserve of the female of the species,
that would be a no. It was Helen Clark I was referring to.
Considering the above, and your insistience I am a femaled when I am
not, the following question is begging to be asked: are you having
gender identity confusion issues, Patrick?
Or should that be Patricia from now on?
Patrick FitzGerald
<misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
>
>Given that damehoods are the preserve of the female of the species,
>that would be a no. It was Helen Clark I was referring to.
No way would our great and good former Prime Minister ever accept an
honour.
That is in sharp contradistinction to the eagerness which my beloved
ex MP, Potty Polly Shipley would grab one.
>
>Considering the above, and your insistience I am a femaled when I am
>not, the following question is begging to be asked: are you having
>gender identity confusion issues, Patrick?
>
I am concerned for your health now that you have reported your
insistience [sic] that you are a femaled [sic].
An urgent medical appointment should be arranged.
Patrick
Enkidu
> Zealanders are world class people so they should be recognised with a
> world class title.
>
tier'. The only true knighthoods are those awarded in the UK to
inhabitants of those countries. It seems absurd to call someone from
some tinpot African country Sir Blahblah and NZ and Australian
knighthoods are demeaned by the comparison.
Our honours should be unique to NZers. Like "Kaumata Sir James Doe" or
whatever is appropriate.
Cheers,
Cliff
--
The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
the same old personalities show through.
oneofus
KBE is Knight Bachelor of the Order of The British Empire.
No Commonwealth honour exists
New Zealand's honour system was the same as Canada's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_Canada
Now to satisfy the whims of those who want to be announced at the door
of every function with their lady wives we have reverted to the tinpot
colony that the rimming syncophant royalists always wanted.
A _L_ P
just for the sake of manufacturing uniqueness? To me that seems
grovelly, unless the idea is based on the "3 official languages".
In that case the quest for a unique NZ honours system might reasonably
confer the title in NZ Sign. Since there are few if any Maori who can't
speak and understand enough English to manage "sir" and "lady", but many
deaf people who can't lip-read, it would be more inclusive to use Sign.
With only 2 words to master the rest of us could make the small effort
required to learn them. We have already plenty of Maori words in use in
NZ but no NZ Signing.
OR: The titles could be shared around, either one language per year, or
awarded to the recipients listed in alphabetical order by (sir/dame),
(Maori word) (NZ Sign Language).
A further refinement might be to award them in proportion to the numbers
in the population (as at the latest census) for whom each language is
their primary language.
A L P
A _L_ P
>>
> Indeed, using the British Empire honor system is pretentious crap
> KBE is Knight Bachelor of the Order of The British Empire.
Ah, but for us it could be K- B- o- t- Order of Eketahuna. Or Ellerslie
or Edendale.
> No Commonwealth honour exists
> New Zealand's honour system was the same as Canada's
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_Canada
> Now to satisfy the whims of those who want to be announced at the door
> of every function with their lady wives we have reverted to the tinpot
> colony that the rimming syncophant royalists always wanted.
A L P
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
[snip]
> Our honours should be unique to NZers. Like "Kaumata Sir James Doe" or
> whatever is appropriate.
Perhaps a good idea - but for any tinpot hapu consisting of three
fatsos sitting on a EH-Holden back seat under a blue tarpaulin out in
the sticks annointing kaumatua here and there, which brings up several
problems:
- the very one you seek to avoid, in terms of second-rate honours
being bestowed,
- the 'nationalisation' of a cultural honour.