A review of 'Fahrenheit 9/11'
Brett Dale
was one of the most amazing cinema experiences in my life. I ha
dplanned on seeing it in Newyork, but as I went to a cinema in Boston,
to see "A day after tommorow"
they told me that movie had been cancelled because of the huge demand
for 'Fahrenheit 9/11.
We as I walked into the cinema, there were police officers thier for
security, the movie was sold out, and boy did the crowd get into it. I
cant beleive some media who was saying this movie is all lies, when
most of the movie was Bushs's own words and actual factual
information.
The movie was done like you were a jury member watching a court case,
it was funny at times, and very sad also. The footage of the woman who
lost her son in Iraq, arguing with another lady who was calling her a
lier and telling her that shes making it up was shocking.
Likewise the two marine recuriters trying to get some poor lowerclass
Africian americans to join was quite sickening.
The movie though belonged to Bush, from his speeches calling his base,
"the haves and the haves", to him trying to pratice a smile and
serious face before interviews, to him sitting thier for seven mintues
after learning of the second plane that crash into the world trade
centre, and his secert service agents just standing around bewildered
that he wasnt doing anything.
There have been a lot of people sayin this movie is full of lies,
without actually giving out what lies their are, unlike Michael Moore
who has listed every fact from the movie on his web page.
A great movie, made greater by a cheering crowd, who says Americans
arent interested in politics.
ofn01
"Brett Dale" <thisisonl...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:5489eb.040719...@posting.google.com...
There is a wealth of information that points out the distortions in both of
his movies.
http://tinyurl.com/4dckf
Just one of the links...
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5296236/
"In both cases, the scale of deceit and deception is breathtaking. Though
I'd need four hours to tell you the list of all the falsehoods from Moore's
two-hour movie, let me give you a few glimpses into his twisted logic: "
It puzzles me why Moore has to use dubious editing, obfuscation and
exclusion in order to get his point across? I really honestly would have
thought that there was more than enough information out there to present an
anti-Bush movie without so many flaws picked out so soon after?
Bobs
Brett Dale wrote:
> I was lucky enough to watch this in the states, and I have to say it
> was one of the most amazing cinema experiences in my life. I ha
> dplanned on seeing it in Newyork, but as I went to a cinema in Boston,
> to see "A day after tommorow"
> they told me that movie had been cancelled because of the huge demand
> for 'Fahrenheit 9/11.
>
> We as I walked into the cinema, there were police officers thier for
> security, the movie was sold out, and boy did the crowd get into it. I
> cant beleive some media who was saying this movie is all lies, when
> most of the movie was Bushs's own words and actual factual
> information.
>
> The movie was done like you were a jury member watching a court case,
> it was funny at times, and very sad also. The footage of the woman who
> lost her son in Iraq, arguing with another lady who was calling her a
> lier and telling her that shes making it up was shocking.
>
> Likewise the two marine recuriters trying to get some poor lowerclass
> Africian americans to join was quite sickening.
I presume you mean by telling them what they want to hear to get them to
sign up? This has been done since the days of the revolution. It's
hardly something Bush started. Did that fat fuck mention that?
>
> The movie though belonged to Bush, from his speeches calling his base,
> "the haves and the haves",
Wow, so he made a mistake in his speech. The end of the world is nigh.
> to him trying to pratice a smile and
> serious face before interviews,
Very common. Moore probably does that as well.
> to him sitting thier for seven mintues
> after learning of the second plane that crash into the world trade
> centre,
Did you read about what the principal of the school said about that? The
true story behind his action? No, of course not.
Let's just say the principal was very thankfull. Do a search on it.
K T T
>
>
> There is a wealth of information that points out the distortions in both of
> his movies.
> http://tinyurl.com/4dckf
>
> Just one of the links...
> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5296236/
> "In both cases, the scale of deceit and deception is breathtaking. Though
> I'd need four hours to tell you the list of all the falsehoods from Moore's
> two-hour movie, let me give you a few glimpses into his twisted logic: "
>
>
>
> It puzzles me why Moore has to use dubious editing, obfuscation and
> exclusion in order to get his point across? I really honestly would have
> thought that there was more than enough information out there to present an
> anti-Bush movie without so many flaws picked out so soon after?
>
>
Gordon
> You obviously haven't read one word of the thousands that have
> already been written on this newsgroup on this issue then, you
> panty waisted political ignoramus.
Thousnads of words? Not to date, in my mind.
Gordon
one notices them. Yet alone get emotive over their works.
riff
> was one of the most amazing cinema experiences in my life. I ha
> dplanned on seeing it in Newyork, but as I went to a cinema in Boston,
> to see "A day after tommorow"
> they told me that movie had been cancelled because of the huge demand
> for 'Fahrenheit 9/11.
> "the haves and the haves", to him trying to pratice a smile and
> serious face before interviews, to him sitting thier for seven mintues
> after learning of the second plane that crash into the world trade
> centre, and his secert service agents just standing around bewildered
> that he wasnt doing anything.
The bit where he described his "friends" as the "haves" and "Have-mores" was
sick.
riff
Jim
"riff" <ri...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:lu3Lc.9385$NA1.8...@news02.tsnz.net...
with a joke that reminded them of how much money they had to donate? Context
is everything. One of Moore's primary techniques is to present quotes and
facts completely out of context and then let you draw conclusions that are
different (if not completely contrary) to those you would have formed had he
showed you the "big picture".
Tarla
>>
>> The movie though belonged to Bush, from his speeches calling his base,
>> "the haves and the haves",
>
>Wow, so he made a mistake in his speech. The end of the world is nigh.
Actually, what he said was: "This is an impressive crowd...the haves,
and the have mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my
base." There was no mistake in that statement.
>
>> to him trying to pratice a smile and
>> serious face before interviews,
>
>Very common. Moore probably does that as well.
>
>> to him sitting thier for seven mintues
>> after learning of the second plane that crash into the world trade
>> centre,
>
>Did you read about what the principal of the school said about that? The
>true story behind his action? No, of course not.
I did. She said she didn't understand why he stood around so fucking
long.
--
Tarla
****
Dammit, Jeb, I'm as Amish as the next guy, but if we
don't take out that sub, there won't be a Pennsylvania
to go home TO."
-my son,Eric
steve
> There have been a lot of people sayin this movie is full of lies,
> without actually giving out what lies their are, unlike Michael Moore
> who has listed every fact from the movie on his web page.
They say Moore is lying because he doesn't agree with Bill O'Reilly,
Sean Hanity and G W Bush.
> A great movie, made greater by a cheering crowd, who says Americans
> arent interested in politics.
I thought it was excellent.
For those who want to see Bush & Co dissected and demolished in a
passionless mode, I can strongly recommend:
"Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War" by Robert Greenwald.
As a movie, it is a devastating record of the lies Bush and his team told.
One sequence on WMD - in about 3 minutes - charts the steady shift in
their story from absolute, unshakeable certainly about WMD - enough to
wage a war - through fuzzifying and blurring and on into Rumsfeld
throwing his hands in the air saying he doesn't think they will ever be
found.
Hans Blix asks how anyone can have 100% certainty about WMD existing,
but zero information about where they actually are.
Too right, Hans!
That small segment alone should be enough for any jury, anywhere to
convict this bunch of war criminals and throw away the key.
It's all their own words....and they well and truly hung themselves.
Over and over....no isolated selective editing here.
steve
Moore says he's telling a story...and the nit-picking these links depend
on rely mostly on assumptions the nit-picker would try to impose on
Moore.....and Moore rejects.
One review i saw put it about right. They said that while they might not
have assembled the details the way Moore has, the movie's wider truths
are not open to question.
Bush lied to justify a war in which he had to know thousands of people
would be killed.
Bush has long-standing links personal and financial links to the Saudi
Royal family and they have a lot of influnece with him.
Bush was not legitimately elected as president of the United States. The
case against his brother Jeb's corrupting of the Florida electoral rolls
is very strong. That Jeb was not prosecuted signifiies the dishonesty
and the power of the Republicans who hold offices that should have seen
him removed from his.
The underlying message is corruption and dishonesty from the Presdient
on a vast scale.
Moore is angry. ANY person aware of this can ONLY be angry.
It's awful. It's a threat to world peace...and it would appear these
people have already killed American democracy. The body just doesn't
know it's head has already been removed.
steve
> You mean the bit where Bush was warming up the crowd at a charity dinner
> with a joke that reminded them of how much money they had to donate? Context
> is everything. One of Moore's primary techniques is to present quotes and
> facts completely out of context and then let you draw conclusions that are
> different (if not completely contrary) to those you would have formed had he
> showed you the "big picture".
The scene stands.
It is Bush talkihng to the self-styled elite who bought and paif for him.
In trying to invoke context as innocuous, you've ignored the simple fact
that those donations have bought results in terms of legislation and
policy.
Look at the changes to any number of policy areas....and the list of
donors...and there can be no other conclusion.
Bobs
Tarla wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 00:42:27 GMT, Bobs <bl...@blah.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>The movie though belonged to Bush, from his speeches calling his base,
>>>"the haves and the haves",
>>
>>Wow, so he made a mistake in his speech. The end of the world is nigh.
>
>
> Actually, what he said was: "This is an impressive crowd...the haves,
> and the have mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my
> base." There was no mistake in that statement.
>
>>>to him trying to pratice a smile and
>>>serious face before interviews,
>>
>>Very common. Moore probably does that as well.
>>
>>
>>>to him sitting thier for seven mintues
>>>after learning of the second plane that crash into the world trade
>>>centre,
>>
>>Did you read about what the principal of the school said about that? The
>>true story behind his action? No, of course not.
>
>
> I did. She said she didn't understand why he stood around so fucking
> long.
Bullshit.
http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/florida/article/0,2071,NPDN_14910_2985640,00.html
Moore is a fucking liar, and you're a disgrace for following his lies.
Would you like to comment on that, Brent, you disgusting pox infested
communist swine?
ofn01
"K T T" <some...@microsoft.com.nz> wrote in message
news:cdhrt5$q71$1...@news.wave.co.nz...
No I should have put a disclaimer in saying I haven't seen the movie.
However having read the positive and negative reviews I see that there are a
ton of negative reviews that slice and dice both of his movies. My post
isn't so much to say "hah, the movie can't be valid because it contains all
these errors pointed out by so many people", it was to say "if the case is
so strong then why does he want to have all these obvious editing and
representation flaws in his movies?"
Tarla
wrote:
None of the factual evidence in the film is in error. Prove it if you
can...once you've seen the movie, of course.
Tarla
wrote:
>st...@anyoldnewsgroupwilldo.org.nz says...
>
>>
>> It is Bush talkihng to the self-styled elite who bought and paif for him.
>
>Like Soros now owns the Democrats?
Mr. Soros does not own the Democrats.
Tarla
>
>
>Tarla wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 00:42:27 GMT, Bobs <bl...@blah.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>The movie though belonged to Bush, from his speeches calling his base,
>>>>"the haves and the haves",
>>>
>>>Wow, so he made a mistake in his speech. The end of the world is nigh.
>>
>>
>> Actually, what he said was: "This is an impressive crowd...the haves,
>> and the have mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my
>> base." There was no mistake in that statement.
>>
>>>>to him trying to pratice a smile and
>>>>serious face before interviews,
>>>
>>>Very common. Moore probably does that as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>>to him sitting thier for seven mintues
>>>>after learning of the second plane that crash into the world trade
>>>>centre,
>>>
>>>Did you read about what the principal of the school said about that? The
>>>true story behind his action? No, of course not.
>>
>>
>> I did. She said she didn't understand why he stood around so fucking
>> long.
>
>Bullshit.
Sorry, I was thinking of the classroom teacher, not the principal. But
no school principal knows the true story behind his actions, and this
reference is just pathetic.
>
>http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/florida/article/0,2071,NPDN_14910_2985640,00.html
Try this one:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html
Brett Dale
in his cd collection, Garth Brooks, Hank Williams Jnr, George Strait,
Randy Travis, Toby Keith (yes Toby Keith, I like his music dont agree
with his politics)?
Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine visited the states six
times?
Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine, be a follower of the
American sports NFL, NHL and Track and field?
Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine, go to Catherdal
square and leave a note and flowers to honor the victims on september
13?
Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine, go the offices of
Peace action newzeland, calling them everyname under the sun on
September 15th
for thier action of tearing down peoples notes of sympathy and
replacing them with anti american solgans.
Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine, go meet Clinton at
apec and give him a standing ovation.
I love America, and its people, its a great country, its current
policies of its president that I dont like.
Bobs <bl...@blah.co.nz> wrote in message news:<HAcLc.6891> Moore is a fucking liar, and you're a disgrace for following his lies.
Brett Dale
Factual Back-Up For Fahrenheit 9/11: Section One
Section One covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from the 2000 election
to George W. Bush's extended visit to Booker Elementary on the morning
of September 11th.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Fox was the first network to call Florida for Bush.
Before that, some other networks had called Florida for Gore, and they
changed after Fox called it for Bush.
"With information provided from the Voter News Service, NBC was the
first network to project Gore the winner in Florida at 7:48 pm. At
7:50 pm ,CNN and CBS project Gore the winner in Florida as well." By
8:02 pm , all five networks and the Associated Press had called Gore
the winner in Florida. Even the VNS called Gore the winner at 7:52 pm.
At 2:16 am, Fox calls Florida for Bush, NBC follows at 2:16 am. ABC is
the last network to call the Florida for Bush, at 2:20 am, while AP
and VNS never call Florida for Bush. CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/02/02/cnn.report/cnn.pdf
Ten minutes after the top of the hour, network excitement was again
beginning to build. At 2:16 a.m., the call was made: Fox News Channel,
with Bush's first cousin John Ellis running its election desk, was the
first to project Florida -- and the presidency -- for the Texas
governor. Within minutes, the other networks followed suit. "George
Bush, Governor of Texas will become the 43rd President of the United
States," CNN's Bernard Shaw announced atop a graphic montage of a
smiling Bush. "At 18 minutes past two o'clock Eastern time, CNN
declares that George Walker Bush has won Florida's 25 electoral votes
and this should put him over the top."PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/election2000/election_night.html
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The man who was in charge of the decision desk at FOX
on election night was Bush's first cousin, John Ellis.
"John Ellis, a first cousin of George W. Bush, ran the network's
Ĺdecision desk' during the 2000 election, and Fox was the first to
name Bush the winner. Earlier, Ellis had made six phone calls to
Cousin Bush during the vote-counting." William O'Rourke, "Talk Radio
Key to GOP Victory," Chicago Sun-Times, December 3, 2002.
A Fox News consultant, John Ellis, who made judgments about
presidential Ĺcalls' on Election Night admits he was in touch with
George W. Bush and FL Gov. Jeb Bush by telephone several times during
the night, but denies breaking any rules. CNN, November 14, 2000;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/14/politics/main249357.shtml.
John Ellis, the Fox consultant who called Florida early for George
Bush, had to stop writing about the campaign for the Boston Globe
because of family Ĺloyalty' to Bush. CBS News,
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/14/politics/main249357.shtml,
November 14, 2000.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Make sure the chairman of your campaign is also the
vote countin' woman and that her state has hired a company that's
gonna knock voters off the rolls who aren't likely to vote for you.
You can usually tell them by the color of their skin."
"The vote total was certified by Florida's secretary of state,
Katherine Harris, head of the Bush campaign in Florida, on behalf of
Gov. Jeb Bush, the candidate's brother." Mark Zoller Seitz, "Bush Team
Conveyed an Air of Legitimacy," San Diego Union-Tribune, December 16,
2000.
The Florida Department of State awarded a $4 million contract to the
Boca Raton-based Database Technologies Inc. (subsidiary of
ChoicePoint). They were tasked with finding improperly registered
voters in the state's database, but mistakes were rampant. "At one
point, the list included as felons 8,000 former Texas residents who
had been convicted of misdemeanors." St. Petersburg Times (Florida),
December 21, 2003.
Database Technologies, a subsidiary of ChoicePoint, "was responsible
for bungling an overhaul of Florida's voter registration records, with
the result that thousands of people, disproportionately black, were
disenfranchised in the 2000 election. Had they been able to vote,
they might have swung the state, and thus the presidency, for Al Gore,
who lost in Florida. Oliver Burkeman, Jo Tuckman, "Firm in Florida
Election Fiasco Earns Millions from Files on Foreigners," The
Guardian, May 5, 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,949709,00.html.
Atlanta-Journal-Constitution, May 28, 2001.
In 1997, Rick Rozar, the late head of the company bought by
ChoicePoint, donated $100,000 to the Republican National Committee.
Melanie Eversley, "Atlanta-Based Company Says Errors in Felon Purge
Not Its Fault," Atlanta Journal-Constitution, May 28, 2001. Frank
Borman of Database Technologies Inc. has donated extensively to New
Mexico Republicans, as well as to the Presidential campaign of George
W. Bush. Opensecrets.org, "Frank Borman."
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Gore got the most votes in 2000.
[A] consortium [Tribune Co., owner of the Times; Associated Press;
CNN; the New York Times; the Palm Beach Post; the St. Petersburg
Times; the Wall Street Journal; and the Washington Post] hired the
NORC [National Opinion Research Center, a nonpartisan research
organization affiliated with the University of Chicago] to view each
untallied ballot and gather information about how it was marked. The
media organizations then used computers to sort and tabulate votes,
based on varying scenarios that had been raised during the
post-election scramble in Florida. Under any standard that tabulated
all disputed votes statewide, Mr. Gore erased Mr. Bush's advantage and
emerged with a tiny lead that ranged from 42 to 171 votes. Donald
Lambro, "Recount Provides No Firm Answers," Washington Times, November
12, 2001.
"The review found that the result would have been different if every
canvassing board in every county had examined every undervote, a
situation that no election or court authority had ordered. Gore had
called for such a statewide manual recount if Bush would agree, but
Bush rejected the idea and there was no mechanism in place to conduct
one." Martin Merzer, "Review of Ballots Finds Bush's Win Would Have
Endured Manual Recount," Miami Herald, April 4, 2001.
See also, the following article by one of the Washington Post
journalists who ran the consortium recount. The relevant point is
made in Table I of the article.
http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Congressional Black Caucus members tried to object to
the election outcome on the floor of the House; no Senator would sign
the objections.
"While Vice President Al Gore appeared to have accepted his fate
contained in two wooden ballot boxes, Democratic members of the
Congressional Black Caucus tried repeatedly to challenge the
assignment of Florida's 25 electoral votes to Bushů. More than a dozen
Democrats followed suit, seeking to force a debate on the validity of
Florida's vote on the grounds that all votes may not have been counted
and that some voters were wrongly denied the right to vote." Susan
Milligan, "It's Really Over: Gore Bows Out Gracefully," Boston Globe,
January 7, 2001.
The Congressional Black Caucus effort failed for "lack of the
necessary signature by any senator." Sen. Minority Leader Tom Daschle
(D-SD) had previously advised Democratic senators not to cooperate.
ĹThey did not.'" Robert Novak, "Sweeney Link Won't Help Chao," Chicago
Sun-Times, January 14, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "On the day George W. Bush was inaugurated, tens of
thousands of Americans poured into the streets of D.C. They pelted
Bush's limo with eggs."
"Shouting slogans like ĹHail to the Thief' and ĹSelected, Not
Elected,' tens of thousands of protesters descended on George W.
Bush's inaugural parade route yesterday to proclaim that he and Vice
President Dick Cheney had Ĺstolen' the election." Michael Kranish and
Sue Kirchhoff, "Thousands Protest ĹStolen' Election," Boston Globe,
January 21, 2001.
"Scuffles erupted between radicals and riot police while an egg struck
the bullet-proof presidential limousine as it carried Mr. Bush and
wife Laura to the White House." Damon Johnston, "Bush Pledges Justice
as Critics Throw Eggs," The Advertisers, January 22, 2001.
See also film footage.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "The inauguration parade was brought to a halt and
the traditional walk to the White House was scrapped."
Bush made one concession to the weather -- or to security concerns: He
stayed in his limousine nearly the entire length of the mile-long
inaugural parade, waving through a slightly foggy window. He got out
to walk only for a brief distance when his motorcade reached the VIP
grandstands in front of the Treasury Department and the White House.
Doyle McManus, et al., "Bush Vows to Bring Nation Together," Los
Angeles Times, January, 21, 2001.
Bush's limo, which traveled most of the route at a slow walking pace,
stopped dead just before it reached the corner of 14th St. and
Pennsylvania Ave., where most of the protesters had congregated. Then
it sped up dramatically, and Secret Service agents protecting the car
on foot had to follow at a full run. When they reached a section of
the parade route where the sidewalks were restricted to official
ticketholders, Bush and his wife, Laura, who wore a flattering
electric turquoise suit, got out of the limo to walk and greet
supporters. Helen Kennedy, "Bush Pledges a United US," New York Daily
News, January 21, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "For the next eight months, it didn't get any better
for George W. Bush."
In a poll conducted September 5 to September 9, 2001, Investor's
Business Daily and the Christian Science Monitor showed President
Bush's approval rating at 45%, down from 52% in May ( Investor's
Business Daily/Christian Science Monitor Poll, conducted by TIPP, 9/5
to 9/9, 2001). Zogby's polling had Bush at 47% in late July 2001, down
from 57% in February (Zogby, 7/26 to 7/29, 2001).
In June 2001, a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll showed President
Bush's approval rating at 50 percent, which was the lowest
presidential approval rating in five years. Richard L. Berke, "G.O.P.
Defends Bush in Face of Dip in Poll Ratings," The New York Times, June
29 2001
On July 26, 2001, in an article entitled "Bush Lacks the Ability To
Force Action on Hill," Dana Milbank of the Washington Post wrote, " It
may be premature to conclude that Bush has lost control of his agenda,
but lawmakers and strategists in both parties said that Bush's next
year is much more likely to look like the fractious month of July than
like the orderly march toward Bush's tax cut this spring.ů The
troubles began, of course, with Vermont Sen. James M. Jeffords'
departure from the GOP, giving control of the Senate to the Democrats.
But the problems are nearly as bad in the House, where moderates who
supported Bush's tax cut are proving recalcitrant on other issues.
They rebelled against GOP leaders on campaign finance reform and held
up Bush's "faith-based" legislation over concerns about
discrimination. Next week, they're likely to oppose Bush's proposal to
drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge."
California energy crisis also took a toll on Bush's approval ratings.
Due to rolling blackouts and rising utility bills Bush's ratings took
a toll among Californians. The poll showed that almost as many
Californians disapproved of the President's job as approved of it with
an approve/disapprove of 42/40. "Calif. Governor Says He'll Sue to
Force Government Action," The Houston Chronicle, May 30, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "In his first eight months in office before September
11, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the Washington Post,
forty-two percent of the time."
"News coverage has pointedly stressed that W.'s month-long stay at his
ranch in Crawford is the longest presidential vacation in 32 years.
Washington Post supercomputers calculated that if you add up all his
weekends at Camp David, layovers at Kennebunkport and assorted to-ing
and fro-ing, W. will have spent 42 percent of his presidency Ĺat
vacation spots or en route.'" Charles Krauthammer, "A Vacation Bush
Deserves," The Washington Post, August 10, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Bush relaxes at Camp David, Kennebunkport and his
ranch in Crawford Texas.
As of April 2004, President Bush had made 33 trips to Crawford during
his presidency, bringing his total to more than 230 days at the ranch
in just over three years. "Add his 78 trips to Camp David and five to
his family's compound at Kennebunkport, Maine, and Bush has spent all
or part of 500 days ľ or about 40 percent of his presidency ľ at one
of these his three retreats." "Bush Retreats to a Favorite Getaway:
Crawford ranch," Houston Chronicle, April 11, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: On Sept. 10, 2001 , Bush joined his brother in
Florida where he slept the night in "a bed made of fine French
linens."
Bush has not been bashful about visiting Florida, ground zero in the
vote-recount battle that followed last year's election. On this trip,
he was spending a good deal of time with his brother, Gov. Jeb Bush. "
President to Push Congress on Education in Fourth Florida Visit,"
Associated Press, September 10, 2001; See also, CNN Inside Politics,
September 10, 2001.
Two individuals prepared the president's room "and made the bed with
some of the family's fine French linens." Tom Bayles, "The Day Before
Everything Changed, President Bush Touched Locals' Lives," Sarasota
Herald-Tribune, September 10, 2002.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "As the attack took place, Mr. Bush was on his way
to an elementary school in Florida . When informed of the first plane
hitting the World Trade Center, where terrorists had struck just eight
years prior, Bush just decided to go ahead with his photo
opportunity."
NOTE: It should be emphasized that at the time Bush was notified of
the first plane attack, he (unlike the rest of America) was already
aware that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking
airplanes, per the August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief (PDB). He
was also aware, of course, that the World Trade Center had been
historically a target for terrorist attacks. He nonetheless went ahead
with this photo opportunity in a school full of children.
"Mr. Bush arrived at the school, just before 9 am, expecting to be
met by its motherly principal, Gwen Rigell. Instead he was pulled
sharply aside by the familiar, bulky figure of 51-year-old Karl Rove,
a veteran political fixer and trusted aide of both Mr. Bush and his
father, George Sr. Mr. Rove, a fellow Texan with an expansive manner
and a colorful turn of phrase, told the President that a large
commercial airliner (American Flight 11) had crashed into the North
Tower of the World Trade Centre . Mr. Bush clenched his teeth, lowered
his bottom lip and said something inaudible. Then he went into the
school." William Langley, "Revealed: What Really Went on During
Bush's ĹMissing Hours,'" The Telegraph, December 16, 2001.
"The airborne attack on the World Trade Center was at least the second
terrorist attempt to topple the landmarks. In 1993, terrorists sought
to bomb one building so that it would explode and fall into the other.
The plot did not succeed, but six people were killed and more than
1,000 injured." Cragg Hines, "Terrorists Strike from Air; Jetliners
Slam into Pentagon, Trade Center" The Houston Chronicle, September 11,
2001.
August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief (PDB), "Bin Ladin Determined
to Strike Inside US": "Al-Qa'ida members -- including some who are US
citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the US for years, and the
group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacksů
FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious
activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings
or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal
buildings in New York." August 6, 2001, Bin Ladin Determined to Strike
Inside US, http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "When the second plane hit the tower, his chief of
staff entered the classroom and told Mr. Bush the nation is under
attack."
"At 9:05 a.m., the White House chief of staff, Andrew H. Card Jr.,
stepped into the classroom and whispered into the president's right
ear, ĹA second plane hit the other tower, and America's under
attack.'" David E. Sanger and Don Van Natta Jr., "After The Attacks:
The Events; In Four Days, A National Crisis Changes Bush's
Presidency," The New York Times, September 16, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Mr. Bush just sat there and continued to read My Pet
Goat."
"It was while attending a second-grade reading class at Emma E. Booker
Elementary School in Sarasota, Fla., to promote his education reforms
that President Bush learned America was under attack. In the presence
of her VIP guest, teacher Sandra Kay Daniels, 45, conducted the day's
lesson, which centered on a story about a pet goat." "9/11: A Year
After," Los Angeles Times, September 11, 2002.
President Bush listened to 18 Booker Elementary School second-graders
read a story about a girl's pet goat Tuesday before he spoke briefly
and somberly about the terrorist attacks. "Bush hears of attack while
visiting Booker," Sarasota Herald-Tribune, September 12, 2001.
See also film footage.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Nearly seven minutes passed with nobody doing
anything."
"[H]e lingered in the room for another six minutes [after being
informed of the second plane]ů [At] 9:12, he abruptly retreated,
speaking to Mr. Cheney and New York officials." David E. Sanger and
Don Van Natta Jr., "After The Attacks: The Events;In Four Days, A
National Crisis Changes Bush's Presidency," The New York Times,
September 16, 2001 .
"Mr. Bush remained in the elementary school for nearly a half an hour
after Andy Card whispered in his ear." Michael Kranish, "Bush: US To
Hunt Down Attackers," Boston Globe, September 11, 2001.
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11: Section Two
Section Two covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from Bush's failure to
meet with Richard Clarke, to the August 6th memo, and ends with the
Saudi flights out of the US after 9/11.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Should he have held at least one meeting since
taking office to discuss the threat of terrorism with his head of
counterterrorism?"
"[T]hey didn't allow me to brief him on terrorism. You know, they're
saying now that when I was afforded the opportunity to talk to him
about cybersecurity, it was my choice. I could have talked about
terrorism or cybersecurity. That's not true. I asked in January to
brief him, the president, on terrorism, to give him the same briefing
I had given Vice President Cheney, Colin Powell and Condi Rice. And I
was told, ĹYou can't do that briefing, Dick, until after the policy
development process.'" Richard Clarke interview with Tim Russert on
NBC's Meet the Press, March 28, 2004.
"Clarke asked on several occasions for early Principals Committee
meetings on these issues [outlined in his January 25, 2001 memo] and
was frustrated that no early meeting was scheduled. He wanted
principals to accept that al Qaeda was a Ĺfirst order threat' and not
a routine problem being exaggerated by Ĺchicken little' alarmists. No
Principals Committee meetings on al Qaeda were held until September 4,
2001." National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United
States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 8,
"National Policy Coordination," pp 9-10;
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing8/staff_statement_8.pdf
See Testimony of Richard A. Clarke before the National Commission on
Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, March 24, 2004:
MR. ROEMER: Okay. Let's move into, with my 15 minutes, let's move into
the Bush administration. On January the 25th, we've seen a memo that
you had written to Dr. Rice, urgently asking for a principals review
of al Qaeda. You include helping the Northern Alliance, covert aid,
significant new '02 budget authority to help fight al Qaeda --
MR. CLARKE: Uh-huh.
MR. ROEMER: -- and response to the U.S.S. Cole. You attached to this
document both the Delenda Plan of 1998 and a strategy paper from
December 2000. Did you get a response to this urgent request for a
principals meeting on these, and how does this affect your time frame
for dealing with these important issues?
MR. CLARKE: I did geta response. The response was that in the Bush
administration I should, and my committee, the counterterrorism
security group, should report to the deputies committee, which is a
sub-cabinet level committee, and not to the principals, and that
therefore it was inappropriate for me to be asking for a principals
meeting. Instead, there would be a deputies meeting.
MR. ROEMER: So, does this slow the process down to go to the deputies
rather than to the principals or a small group, as you had previously
done?
MR. CLARKE: It slowed it down enormously, by months. First of all, the
deputies committee didn't meet urgently in January or February. Then,
when the deputies committee did meet, it took the issue of al Qaeda as
part of a cluster of policy issues, including nuclear proliferation in
South Asia, democratization in Pakistan, how to treat the problems,
the various problems, including narcotics and other problems in
Afghanistan, and, launched on a series of deputies meetings extending
over several months to address al Qaeda in the context of all of those
interrelated issues. That process probably ended, I think, in July of
2001, so we were readying for a principals meeting in July, but the
principals' calendar was full, and then they went on vacation, many of
them, in August, so we couldn't meet in August, and therefore the
principals met in September.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Maybe Mr. Bush was wondering why he had cut
terrorism funding from the FBI."
"This question of resources will also come up in the commission's
questioning of Attorney General John Ashcroft, who was brand-new on
the job in the fall of 2001 and on September 10th cut the FBI's
request for new counterterrorism money by 12 percent." John Dimsdale,
"Former FBI Director Louis Freeh and Attorney General John Ashcroft to
appear before 9/11 commission tomorrow," NPR Radio: Marketplace, April
12, 2004. See also, 2001 budget documents including Attorney General
John Ashcroft FY 2003 budget request to Office of Management and
Budget, September 10, 2001, showing $65 million offset in the FBI
budget for counter-terrorism equipment grants:
http://www.americanprogress.org/atf/cf/%7BE9245FE4-9A2B-43C7-A521-5D6FF2E06E03%7D/FY03ASHCROFT.PDF
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The security briefing that was given to him on
August 6, 2001, said that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack
America by hijacking airplanes.
August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief (PDB): "Al-Qa'ida members --
including some who are US citizens -- have resided in or traveled to
the US for years, and the group apparently maintains a support
structure that could aid attacks. Two al-Qa'ida members found guilty
in the conspiracy to bomb our Embassies in East Africa were US
citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the
mid-1990s. A clandestine source said in 1998 that a Bin Ladin cell in
New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks. We have
not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat
reporting, such as that from a ... (redacted portion) ... service in
1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a US aircraft to gain the
release of ĹBlind Shaykh' 'Umar 'Abd al-Rahman and other US-held
extremists. Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates
patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with
preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including
recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York." August 6, 2001,
Bin Ladin Determined to Strike Inside US,
http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf
"The Aug. 6, 2001, document, known as the President's Daily Brief,
has been the focus of intense scrutiny because it reported that bin
Laden advocated airplane hijackings, that al-Qaida supporters were in
the United States and that the group was planning attacks here."
Clarke J. Scott, "Clarke Gave Warning on Sept. 4, 2001; Testimony
Includes Apology to Families of Sept. 11 Victims, Associated Press,
March 25, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: On August 6 th, 2001, George W. Bush went fishing.
"President Bush swung into vacation mode Monday, fishing for bass in
his pond, strolling the canyons on his 1,600-acre ranch, taking an
early-morning run. Associated Press, "President Bush Vacationing in
Texas," August 6, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Was it the guy my daddy's friends delivered a lot of
weapons to?"
In 1995, a member of Reagan's National Security Council and co-author
of his National Security Directives, Howard Teicher, signed a sworn
affidavit stating: "From early 1982 to 1987, I served as a Staff
Member to the United States National Security Council.ů In June, 1982,
President Reagan decided that the United States could not afford to
allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran. President Reagan decided that the
United States would do whatever was necessary and legal to prevent
Iraq from losing the war with Iran. Pursuant to the secret NSDD, the
United States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the
Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military
intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third
country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military
weaponry required. This message was delivered by Vice President Bush
who communicated it to Egyptian President Mubarak, who in turn passed
the message to Saddam Hussein. Under CIA Director Casey and Deputy
Director Gates, the CIA made sure that non-U.S. manufacturers
manufactured and sold to Iraq the weapons needed by Iraq. In certain
instances where a key component in a weapon was not readily available,
the highest levels of the United States government decided to make the
component available, directly or indirectly, to Iraq. I specifically
recall that the provision of anti-armor penetrators to Iraq was a case
in point. The United States made a policy decision to supply
penetrators to Iraq." Affidavit of former Howard Teicher, UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA v. CARLOS CARDOEN et al, January 31, 1995.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1413.htm
"Questions have been raised about whether the United States not only
ignored foreign arms shipments to Iraq, but actually encouraged or
even arranged them. A former National Security Council official,
Howard Teicher, said in a 1995 court affidavit that the CIA made sure
Iraq received weapons from non-U.S. manufacturers." Ken Guggenheim,
"War Crimes Trial for Saddam Could Reveal Details of Past U.S. Help,"
Associated Press, January 24, 2004.
"There is ample documentation demonstrating that the Reagan and Bush
administrations supplied critical military technologies that were put
directly to use in the construction of the Iraqi war machine. There is
also strong evidence indicating that the executive branch's failure to
crack down on illegal weapons traffickers or keep track of third party
transfers of U.S. weaponry allowed a substantial flow of U.S.-origin
military equipment and military components to make their way to Iraq."
William D. Hartung, Weapons at War; A World Policy Institute Issue
Brief, May 1995. See also, Alan Friedman, Spider's Web: The Secret
History of How the White House Illegally Armed Iraq, (Bantam Books,
1993); Kenneth R. Timmerman, The Death Lobby: How the West Armed Iraq,
(Houghton, Mifflin, 1991).
"Rep. Dante Fascell, D-Fla., chairman of the House Foreign Affairs
Committee, said ů that the United States could not Ĺmake a claim for
purity' on arms sales, since the U.S. government has sold weapons to
Iran, Iraq Ĺand everybody else in the world.'" Robert Shepard,
"Congress Approves Aid for Former Soviet Republics," United Press
International, October 3, 1992.
"A covert American program during the Reagan administration provided
Iraq with critical battle planning assistance at a time when American
intelligence agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical
weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war, according
to senior military officers with direct knowledge of the program.
Those officers, most of whom agreed to speak on the condition that
they not be identified, spoke in response to a reporter's questions
about the nature of gas warfare on both sides of the conflict between
Iran and Iraq from 1981 to 1988. Iraq's use of gas in that conflict is
repeatedly cited by President Bush and, this week, by his national
security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, as justification for "regime
change" in Iraq. The covert program was carried out at a time when
President Reagan's top aides, including Secretary of State George P.
Shultz, Defense Secretary Frank C. Carlucci and Gen. Colin L. Powell,
then the national security adviser, were publicly condemning Iraq for
its use of poison gas, especially after Iraq attacked Kurds in Halabja
in March 1988." Patrick E. Tyler, "Officers Say U.S. Aided Iraq in War
Despite Use of Gas," The New York Times, August 18, 2002.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Was it that group of religious fundamentalists who
visited my state when I was governor?"
"A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in
the United States for talks with an international energy company that
wants to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan
to Pakistan. A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban
were expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in
Sugarland, Texas." "Taleban in Texas for talks on Gas Pipeline," BBC
News, December 4, 1997 (Sugarland is 22 miles outside Houston.)
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Or was it the Saudis? Damn, it was them."
"The 27 classified pages of a congressional report about Sept. 11
depict a Saudi government that not only provided significant money and
aid to the suicide hijackers but also allowed potentially hundreds of
millions of dollars to flow to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups
through suspect charities and other fronts, according to sources
familiar with the document. One U.S. official who has read the
classified section said it describes Ĺvery direct, very specific
links' between Saudi officials, two of the San Diego-based hijackers
and other potential co-conspirators Ĺthat cannot be passed off as
rogue, isolated or coincidental.'" Of all the hijackers, 15 of the 19
were Saudi. Josh Meyer, "Report Links Saudi Government to 9/11
Hijackers, Sources Say," Los Angeles Times, August 2, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "In the days following September 11th , all
commercial and private airline traffic was grounded."
"On the morning of September 11th, there were 4,873 instrument flight
rule (IFR) flights operating in U.S. airspace. As soon as Secretary
Mineta was aware of the nature and scale of the terrorist attack on
New York and Washington -- that we were faced with, not one, but four
possible hijackings, and several other rumors of missing or
unidentified aircraft -- the Secretary ordered the air traffic system
shut down for all civil operations. Jane F. Garvey on Aviation
Security Following the Terrorist Attack on September 11th, September
21, 2001; http://www.faa.gov/newsroom/testimony/2001/testimony_010921.htm;
see also, "Airports to Remain Closed, Mineta Says," Department of
Transportation Press Release, September 12, 2001
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "The White House approved planes to pick up the bin
Ladens and numerous other Saudis."
Fearing reprisals against Saudi nationals, the Saudi government asked
for help in getting some of its citizens out of the country. National
Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and
Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12;
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf
"Now, what I recall is that I asked for flight manifests of everyone
on board and all of those names need to be directly and individually
vetted by the FBI before they were allowed to leave the country. And
I also wanted the FBI to sign off even on the concept of Saudis being
allowed to leave the country. And as I recall, all of that was done.
It is true that members of the Bin Laden family were among those who
left. We knew that at the time. I can't say much more in open
session, but it was a conscious decision with complete review at the
highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White
House." Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former Counterterrorism Chief,
National Security Council, before The Senate Judiciary Committee,
September 3, 2003.
"I was making or coordinating a lot of decisions on 9/11 and the days
immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did
it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don't know. Since you
pressed me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the
Department of State, or the White House Chief of Staff's Office. But I
don't know." Testimony of Richard A. Clarke before the National
Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, March 24,
2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "At least six private jets and nearly two dozen
commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the
U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members
of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country."
NOTE: It should be noted that even though the film does not make the
allegation, strong evidence has recently come to light that at least
one private plane flew to pick up Saudi nationals while private
flights were still grounded. Moreover, for nearly three years, the
White House has denied that this flight existed. This was reported in
the June 9, 2004 St. Petersburg Times article cited below.
After the airspace reopened, six chartered flights with 142
people,mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the United States
between September 14 and 24. One flight, the so-called Bin Ladin
flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers,
most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. National Commission on
Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in
2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12;
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf
It should be noted that the US Customs and Border Protection document
released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb
24, 2004 lists 162 Saudi Nationals who flew out of the country between
9/11/2001 and 9/15/2001, departing from New York's Kennedy airport,
Washington's Dulles, and Dallas Fort Worth.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/homelandsecurity.pdf.
For an official list of Saudi Passport holders (names redacted) who
flew out of the country between 9.11.2001 ľ 9.15.2001, see US Customs
and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland
Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004;
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/homelandsecurity.pdf.
TheSt. Petersburg Times reported on Jun 9, 2004:
o "Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation's air
traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International
Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left. The men, one of
them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were
accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on
the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then took another flight out
of the country."
o Moreover: "For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law
enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and
have denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation
about its purposeů The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11
Commission, said in April that it knew of six chartered flights with
142 people aboard, mostly Saudis, that left the United States between
Sept. 14 and 24, 2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flightů
The 9/11 Commission, which has said the flights out of the United
States were handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with
the handling of the Tampa flight.
o "Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13
were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made
quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included
paid charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights." Jean
Heller, "TIA now verifies flight of Saudis; The government has long
denied that two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to
fly." St. Petersburg Times, June 9, 2004
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11: Section Three
Section Three covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from Osama's
relations with his family through Bush's military records and ends
with Bush's business history, including Arbusto, Harken and the
Carlyle Group.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: In 2001, one of Osama's sons got married in
Afghanistan; several family members attended the wedding.
"Bin Laden as well as his mother, two brothers and a sister, who flew
from Saudi Arabia, attended the wedding of one of his sons, Mohammad,
in the Afghan city of Kandahar on Monday, the Arabic daily Al-Hayat
said.ů Another of bin Laden's sons married one of al-Masri's daughters
in January. Al-Hayat said several members of the bin Laden family, who
run a major construction company in Saudi Arabia, also traveled from
the kingdom to attend the wedding. Agence France Presse, "Bin Laden
Full of Praise for Attack on USS Cole at Son's Wedding", Thursday,
March 1, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "We held hundreds of people" immediately after 9/11.
"More than 1,200 foreigners have been detained as part of the
government's investigation into the terror attacks, some spending
months in prison. Some civil liberties advocates have complained, but
government officials insist they are simply enforcing long-standing
immigration laws." "A Nation Challenged," New York Times, November
25, 2001.
"The Department of Homeland Security announced new rules yesterday
designed to prevent a recurrence of the lengthy detention of hundreds
of foreign nationals, many of whom were prevented from making
telephone calls or contacting lawyers for months after they were
jailed in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The guidelines,
made public yesterday by Asa Hutchinson, the department's
undersecretary for border and transportation security, were welcomed
by civil rights groups that had bitterly denounced the detention of
762 immigration violators after the attacks, based on sometimes
ill-founded FBI suspicions that they had links to terrorism. The new
rules are a response to a highly critical 198-page report last June by
Glenn A. Fine, the Justice Department's inspector general. It
concluded that in the chaotic aftermath of the terrorist strikes on
the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, hundreds of Arab and South
Asian men who had committed sometimes minor immigration violations
languished in jail without timely review by U.S. officials. Guards
mistreated some of them. The average detention lasted three months,
and the longest was 10 months before the immigrants were cleared of
terrorism ties and released from jail." John Mintz,
"New Rules Shorten Holding Time for Detained Immigrants," Washington
Post, April 14, 2004.
"In the days, weeks and months following the tragic events of
September 11, 2001, hundreds of American immigrants were rounded up
and detained, often under harsh or abusive conditions, in the name of
keeping America safe. Not because of evidence (or even sound hunches)
that they were involved in the terrorist attacks that brutally ended
the lives of more than 3,100 people. Not because they were found to
have ties to ľ or even knowledge of ľ terrorist groups who might
threaten American security in the future. Instead, hundreds of
immigrants were arbitrarily snared in this dragnet, marked for arrest
and thrown (literally, at times) in jail. The exact number is unknown,
because the government refuses to release that information. They had
one thing in common: Almost all were Arab or South Asian men, and
almost all were Muslim... Once arrested, many immigrants were labeled
"of interest" to the September 11 investigation and thrown into legal
limbo ľ detained for weeks or months in connection with a criminal
investigation, but denied the due process rights that they would have
been entitled to had they actually been charged with crimes." ACLU,
"America's Disappeared: Seeking International Justice for Immigrants
Detained after September 11," January 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The FBI conducted "a little interview, check[ed] the
passport."
Last year, the National Review reported that the FBI conducted brief,
day-of-departure interviews with the Saudis -- in the words of an FBI
spokesman, "at the airport, as they were about to leave." Experts
interviewed by the National Review called the FBI's actions "highly
unusual" given the fact that those departing were actually members of
Osama bin Laden's family. "They [the FBI] could not have done a
thorough and complete interview," said John L.Martin, the former head
of internal security at the Justice Department. "The Great Escape :
How did assorted bin Ladens get out of America after September 11?"
National Review, September 29, 2003.
"Thirty of the 142 people on these flights were interviewed by the
FBI, including 22 of the 26 people (23 passengers and 3 private
security guards) on the Bin Ladin flight. Many were asked detailed
questions. None of the passengers stated that they had any recent
contact with Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist
activity." National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United
States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The
Saudi Flights, p. 12;
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf
"I talked to several people who were with the FBI during the actual
repatriation. And they told me there was a lot of back-and-forth
between the FBI and the Saudi Embassy. And the Saudi Embassy tried to
get people to leave without even identifying them. The FBI succeeded
in identifying people and going through their passports. But, in many
cases, you had the FBI meeting people for the first time on the tarmac
or on the planes themselves as they were departing. That was not time
for a serious interview or a serious interrogation." Interview with
Craig Unger, CNN, September 4, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: White House released records in response to Moore's
charge of deserter.
Left-leaning filmmaker Michael Moore got the discussion started in
January, when he endorsed Clark for president and called the president
a Ĺdeserter.' The White House responded by releasing the president's
service records, including an honorable discharge. James Rainey,
"Who's the Man? They Are; George Bush and John Kerry Stand Shoulder to
Shoulder in One Respect: Macho is Good. Very Good. It's Been That Way
Since Jefferson's Day," Los Angeles Times, March 18, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: There is one glaring difference between the records
released in 2000 and those he released in 2004. A name had been
blacked out. In 1972, two airmen were suspended for failing to take
their medical examination. One was George W. Bush and the other
wasJames R. Bath.
See National Guard Bureau, Aeronautical Orders Number 87, September
29, 1972, Attachment B, paragraph 7 (original document):
The Document as Released in 2000: Page 1 | Page 2
The Document as Released in 2004: Page 1 | Page 2
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: James R. Bath was the Texas money manager for the
Bin Laden family.
See Notarized Trust Agreement, Harris County, Texas, signed by Salem
M. Binladen, July 8, 1976 (original document), Attachment C ("I, Salem
M. Binladen, do hereby vest unto James Reynolds Bath, 2330
Bellefontaine, Houston, Texas, full and absolute authority to act on
my behalf in all matters relating to the business and operation of
Binladen-Houston offices in Houston, Texas." Notarized Trust
Agreement, Harris County, Texas, July 8, 1976.
"According to a 1976 trust agreement, drawn shortly after [George H.
W.] Bush was appointed director of the Central Intelligence Agency,
Saudi Sheik Salem M. Binladen appointed Bath as his business
representative in Houston. Binladen, along with his brothers, owns
Binladen Brothers Construction, one of the largest construction
companies in the Middle East." Jerry Urban, "Feds Investigate
Entrepreneur Allegedly Tied to Saudis," Houston Chronicle, June 4,
1992.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: George W. Bush and James R. Bath had become good
friends.
"Bath, 55, acknowledges a friendship with George W. Bush that stems
from their service together in the Texas Air National Guard." Jonathan
Beaty, "A Mysterious Mover of Money and Planes," Time Magazine,
October 28, 1991.
"In a copy of the record released by the National Guard in 2000, the
man in question, James R. Bath, was listed as being suspended from
flying for the National Guard in 1972 for failing to take a medical
exam next to a similar listing for Mr. Bush. It has been widely
reported that the two were friends and that Mr. Bath invested in Mr.
Bush's first major business venture, Arbusto Energy, in the late
1970's after Mr. Bath began working for Salem bin Laden." Jim
Rutenberg, "A Film to Polarize Along Party Lines," New York Times, May
17, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "After they were discharged, when Bush's dad was head
of the CIA, Bath opened up his own aviation business, after selling a
plane to a man by the name of Salem bin Laden, heir to the second
largest fortune in Saudi Arabia, the Saudi bin Laden Group."
"Bath opened his own aircraft brokerage firm in 1976." Jonathan Beaty,
"A Mysterious Mover of Money and Planes," Time Magazine, October 28,
1991. (Bush was CIA director, 1976-1977.)
"Sometime around 1974ů Bath was trying to sell a F-27 turboprop, a
sluggish medium-range plane that was not exactly a hot ticket in those
days, when he received a phone call that changed his life. The voice
no the other end belonged to Salem bin Ladenů Bath not only had a
buyer for a plane no one else seemed to want, he had also stumbled
upon a source of wealth and power that was certain to pique the
interest of even the brashest Texas oil baron." Craig Unger, House of
Bush, House of Saud, pp,19-20 (Scribner: New York, 2004).
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "George W. Bush founded an oil company, a drilling
company, out in west Texas called Arbusto, which was very good at
drilling dry holes."
"After graduating from the Harvard Business School, Bush organized his
first company, Arbusto Energy (Arbusto is Spanish for Bush) in 1977 on
the eve of a run for Congress. According to records on file with the
Securities and Exchange Commission, Arbusto didn't start active
operations until March 1979.ů According to 1984 securities filings,
Bush's limited partners had invested $4.66 million in Bush's various
drilling programs but they had received cash distributions of only
$1.54 million. However, Bush's CFO stated, ĹWe didn't find much oil
and gas,' adding ĹWe weren't raising any money.' George Lardner Jr.
and Lois Romano, "Bush Name Helps Fuel Oil Dealings," Washington Post,
July 30, 1999.
"Bush eventually renamed his company Bush Exploration and later merged
with a firm called Spectrum 7. Documents filed with the Securities
and Exchange Commission show that the firm lost money from 1979 to
1982 and that investors who put in nearly $4.7 million got back just
$1.5 million. Published reports contend that Bush Exploration was
salvaged by Cincinnati oilmen Bill DeWitt and Mercer Reynolds. Bush
today says otherwise, that his company was on firm financial footing
and that the merger was a strategic one. Either way, George W.
drilled his fair share of dry holes. As Conaway rues to this day, the
company Ĺnever hit . . . the Big Kahuna.'" Maria La Ganga, "Bush
Finesses Texas 2-Step Of Privilege, Personality," Los Angeles Times,
March 2, 2000.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "There is no indication that daddy wrote a check to
start Bush off in his company."
"Seed money, upward of $4 million, was largely raised between 1979 and
1982 with the help of [Bush's] uncle, financier Jonathan Bush. The
Arbusto investor list is filled with family and famous friends. His
grandmother, Dorothy W. Bush, chipped in $25,000. Corporate
luminaries like George L. Ball, chief executive of Prudential-Bache
Securities, invested $100,000. Macomber and William H. Draper III,
who invested more than $125,000, were later named presidents of the
U.S. Export-Import Bank during the Reagan and Bush administrations."
Maria La Ganga, "Bush Finesses Texas 2-Step Of Privilege,
Personality," Los Angeles Times, March 2, 2000.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Bush's good friend James Bath was hired by the bin
Laden family to manage their money in Texas and invest in businesses.
And James Bath himself, in turn, invested in George W. Bush."
See Notarized Trust Agreement, Harris County, Texas, signed by Salem
M. Binladen, July 8, 1976 (original document), Attachment C ("I, Salem
M. Binladen, do hereby vest unto James Reynolds Bath, 2330
Bellefontaine, Houston, Texas, full and absolute authority to act on
my behalf in all matters relating to the business and operation of
Binladen-Houston offices in Houston, Texas." Notarized Trust
Agreement, Harris County, Texas, July 8, 1976.
See 1981 Schedule 4 spreadsheet showing $50,000 investment by James
Bath in George W. Bush's Arbusto Exploration, Attachment D (original
document).
Bath's business relationship with Salem bin Laden, and other wealthy
Saudi businessmen, has been well documented. See, e.g., Mike Ward,
"Bin Laden Relatives Have Ties to Texas," Austin American-Statesman,
November 9, 2001; Jerry Urban, "Feds Investigate Entrepreneur
Allegedly Tied to Saudis," Houston Chronicle, June 4, 1992; Thomas
Petzinger Jr., et al., "Family Ties: How Oil Firm Linked to a Son of
Bush Won Bahrain Drilling Pact," The Wall Street Journal, December 6,
1991.
"[E]arly 1980s tax records reviewed by TIME show that Bath invested
$50,000 in Bush's energy ventures and remained a stockholder until
Bush sold his company to Harken in 1986." Jonathan Beaty, "A
Mysterious Mover of Money and Planes," Time Magazine, October 28,
1991.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Bush ran Arbusto nearly into the ground, as he did
every other company he was involved in until finally one of his
companies was bought by Harken Energy and they gave him a seat on
their board."
"Bush's name ůwas to help rescue him, just as it had attracted
investors and helped revive his flagging fortunes throughout his years
in the dusty plains city of Midland. A big Dallas-based firm, Harken
Oil and Gas, was looking to buy up troubled oil companies. After
finding Spectrum, Harken's executives saw a bonus in their target's
CEO, despite his spotty track record. By the end of September 1986,
the deal was done. Harken assumed $ 3.1 million in debts and swapped $
2.2 million of its stock for a company that was hemorrhaging money,
though it had oil and gas reserves projected to produce $ 4 million in
future net revenue. Harken, a firm that liked to attach itself to
stars, had also acquired Bush, whom it used not as an operating
manager but as a high-profile board member.ů It was one of the biggest
breaks of Bush's life. Still, the Harken deal completed a
disappointing reprise of what was becoming a familiar pattern. As an
oilman, Bush always worked hard, winning a reputation as a
straight-shooter and a good boss who was witty, warm and immensely
likable. Even the investors who lost money in his ventures remained
admirers, and some of them are now raising money for his presidential
campaign. But the story of Bush's career in oil, which began
following his graduation from Harvard Business School in the summer of
1975 and ended when he sold out to Harken and headed for Washington,
is mostly about his failure to succeed, despite the sterling
connections his lineage and Ivy League education brought him." George
Lardner Jr. and Lois Romano, "Bush Name Helps Fuel Oil Dealings,"
Washington Post, July 30, 1999.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Bush was investigated by the S.E.C. The James Baker
law partner who helped Bush beat the rap from the SEC was a man by the
name of Robert Jordon, who, when George W. became president was
appointed ambassador to Saudi Arabia.
"A week before George W. Bush's 1990 sale of stock in Harken Energy
Co., the firm's outside lawyers cautioned Bush and other directors
against selling shares if they had significant negative information
about the company's prospects. The sale came a few months before
Harken reported significant losses, leading to an investigation by the
Securities and Exchange Commission. The June 15, 1990, letter from
the Haynes and Boone law firm wasn't sent to the SEC by Bush's
attorney Robert W. Jordan until Aug. 22, 1991, according to a letter
by Jordan. That was one day after SEC staff members investigating the
stock sale concluded there was insufficient evidence to recommend an
enforcement action against Bush for insider trading." Peter Behr,
"Bush Sold Stock After Lawyers' Warning," Washington Post, November 1,
2002.
"President Bush has chosen as ambassador to Saudi Arabia a Dallas
attorney who represented him against ů allegations arising from his
sale of stock in Harken Energy Co. 11 years ago." G. Robert Hillman,
"Bush Taps Dallas Attorney to be Ambassador to Saudi Arabia," The
Dallas Morning News, July 21, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "After the Harken debacle, the friends of Bush's dad
got him a seat on another board, of a company owned by the Carlyle
Group."
"Fred Malek, a senior advisor to Carlyle, who also served as the
director of the 1988 Republican Convention, suggested to Carlyle that
the President's eldest son, George W. Bush, would Ĺbe a positive
addition to Caterair's board.' Mr. Malek was also a Caterair director
and vice chairman of Northwest Airlines, a major Caterair customer.
ĹI thought George W. Bush could make a contribution to Caterair,'
stated Malek. Malek further claimed, ĹHe would be on the board even
if his father weren't President.'" Kenneth N. Gilpin, "Little-Known
Carlyle Scores Big," New York Times, March 26, 1991
Co-Founder of Carlyle Group, David Rubenstein, talking about setting
up Cater Air after Carlyle acquired it: "When we're putting together
the board," Rubenstein said, Ĺsomebody came to me and said ĹLook,
there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He's kind of down on
his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs some board positions. Could you
put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he'll be a good board
member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.' ůWe put
him on the board and (he) spent three years. Came to all the
meetings. ů And after a while I kind of said to him, after about
three years ľ ĹYou know, I'm not sure this is really for you. Maybe
you should do something else. Because I don't think you're adding
much value to the board. You don't know that much about the company.'
The board member told him, Rubenstein said, ĹWell I think I'm getting
out of this business anyway. I don't really like it that much. So I'm
probably going to resign from the board.' And I said, 'Thanks.' Didn't
think I'd ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush,' Rubenstein
said. ĹHe became president of the United States. So if you said to
me, name 25 million people who would be president of the United
States, he wouldn't be in that category. So you neverknow." Nicholas
Horrock, "White House Watch: With Friends Like These," UPI, July 16,
2003 .
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11:
Section Four covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 covers the Carlyle
Group and Saudi money in the United States and its connection to the
Bush family, their friends and associates.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "The Carlyle group is a multinational conglomerate
that invests in heavily government-regulated industries like
telecommunications, healthcare and, particularly, defense."
"The Carlyle Group is one of the world's largest private equity firms,
with more than $18.3 billion under management. With 23 funds across
five investment disciplines (management-led buyouts, real estate,
leveraged finance, venture capital and turnaround), Carlyle combines
global vision with local insight, relying on a top-flight team of
nearly 300 investment professionals operating out of offices in 14
countries to uncover superior opportunities in North America, Europe,
and Asia.
Carlyle focuses on sectors in which it has demonstrated expertise:
aerospace & defense, automotive & transportation, consumer, energy &
power, healthcare, industrial, real estate, technology & business
services, and telecommunications & media." Carlyle Group web site,
http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/company/index.html FAHRENHEIT 9/11:
The Bin Laden and Bush families were both connected to the Carlyle
Group, as were many of the Bush family's friends and associates.
In the early 1990s, George W. Bush served on the board of directors
for CaterAir, an airline catering company. CaterAir was owned by the
Carlyle Group. Kenneth N. Gilpin, "Little-Known Carlyle Scores Big,"
The New York Times, March 26, 1991. "George W. Bush left the company
in 1994, a year after his father's presidency ended." Ross Ramsey, et
al., "Campaign '94 Fisher's Staff Slips Up On Spanish," The Houston
Chronicle, September 17, 1994.
In the mid-1990s, George H.W. Bush joined up with the Carlyle Group.
"Under the leadership of ex-officials like Baker and former Defense
Secretary Frank C. Carlucci, Carlyle developed a specialty in buying
defense companies and doubling or quadrupling their value. The
ex-president not only became an investor in Carlyle, but a member of
the company's Asia Advisory Board and a rainmaker who drummed up
investors. Twelve rich Saudi families, including the Bin Ladens, were
among them.
In 2002, the Washington Post reported, ĹSaudis lose to Prince Sultan,
the Saudi defense minister ... were encouraged to put money into
Carlyle as a favor to the elder Bush.' Bush retired from the company
last October, and Baker, who lobbied U.S. allies last month to forgive
Iraq's debt, remains a Carlyle senior counselor. Kevin Phillips, "The
Barreling Bushes; Four Generations of the Dynasty Have Chased Profits
Through Cozy Ties with Mideast Leaders, Spinning Webs of Conflicts of
Interest," Los Angeles Times, January 11, 2004.
The bin Laden family first invested in Carlyle in 1994. Representing
Carlyle's Asia Board, George H.W. Bush visited the bin laden family's
headquarters in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Kurt Eichenwald, "Bin Laden
Family Liquidates Holdings With Carlyle Group," The New York Times,
October 26, 2001.
James Baker was a Carlyle Senior Counselor beginning in 1993. Carlyle
Group web site, http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/team/l5-team391.html.
Bush's OMB chief, Richard Darman, was with Carlyle by 1994. Bob Cook,
Mergers & Acquisitions Report, December 12, 1994.
George W. Bush was with Caterair -- owned by Carlyle -- until 1994,
after Fred Malek, a senior advisor to Carlyle, who also served as the
director of the 1988 Republican Convention, suggested to Carlyle that
the President's eldest son would "be a positive addition to Caterair's
board." Kenneth N. Gilpin, "Little-Known Carlyle Scores Big," New
York Times, March 26, 1991.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Carlyle Group was holding its annual investor
conference on the morning of September 11th in the Ritz Carlton Hotel
in Washington, D.C. At that meeting were all of the Carlyle regulars,
James Baker, likely John Major, definitely George H. W. Bush, though
he left the morning of September 11th. Shafiq bin Ladin, who is Osama
bin Laden's half-brother, and was in town to look after his family's
investments in the Carlyle Group. All of them, together in one room,
watching as the uh the planes hit the towers."
On the morning of September 11, 2001, "in the plush setting of the
Ritz-Carlton hotel in Washington, DC, the Carlyle Group was holding
its annual international investor conference. Frank Carlucci, James
Baker III, David Rubenstein, William Conway, and Dan D'Aniellow were
together, along with a host of former world leaders, former defense
experts, wealthy Arabs from the Middle East, and major international
investors as they terror played out on television. There with them,
looking after the investments of his family was Shafiq bin Laden,
Osama bin Laden's estranged half-brother. George Bush Sr. was also at
the conference, but Carlyle's spokesperson says the former president
left before the terror attacks, and was on an airplane over the
Midwest when flights across the country were grounded on the morning
of September 11.
In any circumstance, a confluence of such politically complex and
globally connected people would have been curious, even newsworthy.
But in the context of the terrorist attacks being waged against the
United States by a group of Saudi nationals led by Osama bin Laden,
the group assembled at the Ritz-Carlton that day was a disconcerting
and freakish coincidence." Dan Briody, The Iron Triangle, John Wiley
& Sons, Inc., 2003, p. 139-140. See also, Melanie Warner, "What do
George Bush, Arthur Levitt, Jim Baker, Dick Darman, and John Major
Have in Common? (They All Work for the Carlyle Group)," Fortune, March
18, 2002,
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "With all the weapons companies it owned, The Carlyle
Group was in essence, the 11th largest defense contractor in the
United States."
"By virtue of its holdings in companies like U.S. Marine Repair and
United Defense Industries, Carlyle is the equivalent of the
eleventh-largest defense contractor in the nation. It has $16.2
billion under management and claims an average annual return of 35%."
Phyllis Berman, "Lucky Twice," Forbes, December 8, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "It owned United Defense, makers of the Bradley
armored fighting vehicle. September 11th guaranteed that United
Defense was going to have a very good year. Just 6 weeks after 9-11
Carlyle filed to take United Defense public and in December made a one
day profit of $237 million dollars."
"On a single day last month, Carlyle earned $237 million selling
shares in United Defense Industries, the Army's fifth-largest
contractor. The stock offering was well timed: Carlyle officials say
they decided to take the company public only after the Sept. 11
attacks. ů On Sept. 26, [2001], the Army signed a $665-million
modified contract with United Defense through April 2003 to complete
the Crusader's development phase. In October, the company listed the
Crusader, and the attacks themselves, as selling points for its stock
offering. Mark Fineman, "Arms Buildup is a Boon to Firm Run by Big
Guns," Los Angeles Times, January 10, 2002.
"Still, in its annual report for 2001, United announced that it had
been awarded a three-year, $697 million contract to complete full
upgrading of 389 Bradley units and had added a $ 655 million contract
modification to complete the Crusader's 'definition and risk-reduction
phase contract,' which would be worth $ 1.7 billion through 2003.
Together, the Crusader and Bradley programs contributed 41 percent of
United sales in 2001, the report said. With Crusader and the Bradley
upgrade in hand, a decision was made to sell United stock to the
public in late 2001." Walter Pincus, "Crusader a Boon to Carlyle Group
Even if Pentagon Scraps Project," Washington Post, May 14, 2002.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "With so much attention focused on the bin Laden
family being important Carlyle investors, the bin Ladens eventually
had to withdraw."
"Following the attacks on September 11, the bin Laden family's
investments in the Carlyle Group became an embarrassment to the
Carlyle Group and the family was forced to liquidate their assets with
the firm." Kurt Eichenwald, "Bin Laden Family Liquidates Holdings
with Carlyle Group," The New York Times, October 26, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Bush's dad stayed on as Senior Advisor to Carlyle's
Asia Board for another 2 years."
"Former President Bush was at one time the Senior Advisor to the
Carlyle Asia Advisory Board but retired from that position in October
2003. He holds no other positions at Carlyle."
http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/news/l4-presskit681.html#8
"The former president is no longer a company adviser, but he still has
investments there,
Mr. Ullman (vice president for corporate communications) said." Dallas
Morning News, "Michael Moore keeps heat on at premiere", May 18, 2004
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: George H. W. Bush receives daily CIA briefings.
"One of the people who corresponded with [former ambassador Joseph]
Wilson is George H. W. Bush, the only president to have been head of
the C.I.A.-- he still receives regular briefings from Langley." Vicky
Ward, "Double Exposure," Vanity Fair, January 2004.
Former President Bush has made efforts to keep abreast of foreign
affairs, partly by exercising his right to be briefed by CIA personnel
about developments around the globe. Ha'aretz, "George Bush Sr.
Vouches for Son's Support of Israel to the Saudis", July 16, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "They are benefiting from the confusion that arises
when George H. W. Bush visits Saudi Arabia, on behalf of Carlyle, and
meets with the royal family and meets with the bin Laden family. Is he
representing the United States of America, or is he representing an
investment firm in the United States of America or is he representing
both?"
Few firms could have rivaled the Carlyle Group for its array of
high-powered friends. The Washington-based venture capital house had
been likened to a retirement home for Gulf War veterans, and the likes
of George Bush Sr, James Baker, and John Major Ĺcan take credit for
its rapid rise.' The Observer noted in a profile, "It used to be
fashionable to deride Carlyle as a second-rate influence-peddler and
dismiss its stable of retired politicians as superannuated Ĺaccess
capitalists.'" ů Carlyle had sponsored visits by Bush Sr. to South
Korea and China, and his clout with the Saudi government ľ perhaps
Carlyle's most important customer ľ is also likely to be valued. Conal
Walsh, "The Carlyle Controversy: With Friends in High Places: Former
World Leaders Give Carlyle Group Unrivalled Prowess in Lobbying for
Business," The Observer, September 15, 2002.
"'It should be a deep cause for concern that a closely held company
like Carlyle can simultaneously have directors and advisers that are
doing business and making money and also advising the president of the
United States,' says Peter Eisner, managing director of the Center for
Public Integrity, a non-profit-making Washington think-tank. ĹThe
problem comes when private business and public policy blend together.
What hat is former president Bush wearing when he tells Crown Prince
Abdullah not to worry about US policy in the Middle East? What hat
does he use when he deals with South Korea, and causes policy changes
there? Or when James Baker helps argue the presidential election in
the younger Bush's favour? It's a kitchen-cabinet situation, and the
informality involved is precisely a mark of Carlyle's success.'"
Oliver Burkeman Julian Borger, "The Winners: The Ex-Presidents' Club,"
The Guardian, October 31, 2001.
"The Saudi family of Osama bin Laden is severing its financial ties
with the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm known for its
connections to influential Washington political figuresů In recent
years, Frank C. Carlucci, the chairman of Carlyle and a former
secretary of defense, has visited the family's headquarters in Jeddah,
Saudi Arabia, as have former President George Bush and James A. Baker
III, the former secretary of state. Mr. Bush works as an adviser to
Carlyle, and Mr. Baker is a partner in the firm." Kurt Eichenwald,
"Bin Laden Family Liquidates Holdings With Carlyle Group," New York
Times, October 26, 2001.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Another group of people invest in you, your friends,
and their related businesses $1.4 billion over a number of years."
"In all, at least $1.46 billion had made its way from the Saudis to
the House of Bush and its allied companies and institutions." Craig
Unger, House of Bush, House of Saud, p. 200, (Scribner: New York,
2004). For a complete breakdown of the investments, see Unger's
Appendix C, pp. 295-298.
This number includes investments made and contracts awarded at the
time that Bush's friends were involved in the Carlyle Group:
James Baker was a Carlyle Senior Counselor beginning in 1993. Carlyle
Group web site, http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/team/l5-team391.html.
Bush's OMB chief, Richard Darman, was with Carlyle by 1994. Bob Cook,
Mergers & Acquisitions Report, December 12, 1994.
George W. Bush was with Caterair -- owned by Carlyle -- until 1994,
after Fred Malek, a senior advisor to Carlyle, who also served as the
director of the 1988 Republican Convention, suggested to Carlyle that
the President's eldest son would "be a positive addition to Caterair's
board." Kenneth N. Gilpin, "Little-Known CarlyleScores Big," New York
Times, March 26, 1991
Bush Sr. was first involved in Carlyle by the mid-1990s and no later
than 1997.Kevin Phillips, "The Barreling Bushes; Four Generations of
the Dynasty Have Chased Profits Through Cozy Ties with Mideast
Leaders, Spinning Webs of Conflicts of Interest," Los Angeles Times,
January 11 , 2004; Dan Briody, The Iron Triangle, John Wiley & Sons,
Inc., 2003.
Additional back up for these numbers is as follows:
Saudi investments in the Carlyle Group worth $80,000,000. Craig
Unger, "Saving the Saudis," Vanity Fair, October 2003. The number was
reported to Unger by the head of Carlyle, David Rubenstein, in an
interview.
In 1994, Carlyle owned military contractor BDM was "awarded a contract
to provide technical assistance and logistics support to the Royal
Saudi Air Force." Worth: $46,200,000. PR Newswire, "BDM Federal
Awarded $46 Million Contract To Support Royal Saudi Air Force,"
October 27, 1994.
During the 1990s, the Vinnell Corporation (a BDM subsidiary) held
contracts to train the Saudi Arabian National Guard, worth
$819,000,000. Robert Burns, "US Advises Saudi Military On Range Of
ThreatsŚIncluding Terrorism," Associated Press, November 13, 1995.
In 1995, BDM collected a contract to "augment Royal Saudi Air Force
staff in developing, implementing, and maintaining logistics and
engineering plans and programs." Worth: $32,500,000. Defense Daily,
"Defense Contracts," June 23, 1995, as cited by Craig Unger.
In 1996, BDM was awarded a contract "to provide construction of 110
housing units at the MK-1 Compound, Khamis Mushayt, Saudi Arabia, for
Technical Support Program personnel assisting the Royal Saudi Air
Forceů. This effort supports foreign military sales to Saudi Arabia."
Worth: $44,397,800. Department of Defense News Release, "BDM Federal,
Incorporated," April 1, 1996.
During the late 1990s, Vinnell was awarded a contract "for the Saudi
Arabian National Guard (SANG) Modernization Program. The three-year
contract, awarded competitively, calls on Vinnell to continue to
support SANG training operations and related activities." Worth:
$163,300,000 . PR Newswire, "Vinnell Selected for Award of $163.3
Million Contract for Saudi Arabian National Guard Modernization
Program," May 3, 1995. Kashim Al-An, "Saudi Guard Gets Quiet Help from
US Firm with Connections," Associated Press, March 22, 1997.
In 1997, BDM was awarded a contract "to provide for 400 contractor
personnel to support the Royal Saudi Air Force in developing,
implementing, and maintaining logistics, supply, computer,
reconnaissance, intelligence and engineering plans and programs."
Worth: $18,728,682 (note: this is a "face value increase to a firm
fixed price contract"). Defense Daily, "Defense Contracts," February
4, 1997.
Note: Carlyle purchased BDM and its subsidiary Vinnell in 1992 and
sold it to TRW in Dec, 1997.
In November 2001, Dick Cheney's former company Halliburton was awarded
"a contract to provide services for the Saudi Arabian Oil Company's
(Saudi Aramco) Qatif Field development project in the eastern province
of Saudi Arabia." Worth: $140 million. Halliburton press release,
"Halliburton Awarded $140 Million Contract by Saudi Aramco," November
14, 2001.
The same month, a consortium of three companies led by Halliburton
subsidiary KBR won a "contract for engineering, procurement, and
construction of an ethylene plant for Jubail United Petrochemcial
Company, a wholly owned company of Saudi Basic Industries
Corporation." Worth: $40 million. MaggieMulvihill, et al., "Bush
Advisers Cashed in on Saudi Gravy Train," Boston Herald, December 11,
2001 ; Halliburton press release, "Halliburton KBR, Chiyoda, and
Mitsubishi Win SaudiArabian Ethylene Project," November 19, 2001.
(Note: The $40 million figure cited for this contractin all likelihood
is much too low. Three separate energy industry journals place the
value of the contract at $350 million. While there are two other
companies involved, all reports point out that Halliburton KBR led the
consortium and thus, if the contract were $350 million, it is likely
that their cut would beŚas lead contractorŚsignificantly more than $40
million. See, Petroleum Economist, "News in Brief," January 14, 2002;
Chemical Week, "KBR, Chiyoda, Mitsubishi Win Jubail Ethylene
Contract," December 5, 2001; Middle East Economic Digest, "Projects
Update: Petrochemicals," March 7, 2000.
Soon after Harken bought out George W. Bush's company Spectrum 7 in
1986 and placed Bush on their board of directors, a Saudi sheik
swooped in to save the troubled Harken. Abdullah Taha Bakhsh purchased
a 17% stake in the company. Worth: $25,000,000. Thomas Petzinger Jr.,
et al., "Family Ties: How Oil Firm Linked to a Son of Bush Won Bahrain
Drilling Pact; Harken Energy Had a Web of Mideast Connections; In the
Background: BCCI; EntrÚe at the White House," Wall Street Journal,
December 6, 1991.
In 1989 Saudi Arabia's King Fahd donated money to the Barbara Bush
Foundation for Family Literacy. At the time, Ms. Bush was the First
Lady of the United States. The King's contribution represented almost
half the amount the organization was able to raise that year. Worth:
$1,000,000. Thomas Ferraro, "Saudi King also Contributed to Barbara
Bush's Foundation," United Press International, March 13, 1990.
Following George H. W. Bush's departure from office, Saudi Ambassador
to the United States, Prince Bandar, donated money to the Bush Sr.
Presidential Library fund. Worth: At least $1,000,000. Dave
Montgomery, "Hail to a Former Chief," Fort Worth Star-Telegram,
November 7, 1997.
Both George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush attended the elite Phillips
Andover Academy in Massachusetts. In the summer of 2002 the Academy
announced it had established a scholarship in Bush Sr.'s name. Saudi
Prince Alwaleed binTalal bin Adul Aziz Alsaud -- the same Prince who
bailed out EuroDisney in the mid-Nineties -- was among the donors to
the scholarship. Worth $500,000. Phillips Academy-Andover press
release, "A Statement from Phillips Academy-Andover Regarding the Bush
Scholars Program," December 31, 2002.
Among the many presents George W. Bush has received from foreign
leaders and dignitaries during his term as President, perhaps none is
grander than the one Prince Bandar bestowed upon him. Bandar gave the
current president a "C.M. Russell oil canvas painting of a native
American buffalo huntů." Worth: $1,000,000. Siobhan McDonough, "Gifts
to President are Gratefully Received, Quickly Carted into Storage,"
Associated Press, July 14, 2003.
Factual Back-Up for Fahrenheit 9/11:
Section Six covers the facts in Fahrenheit 9/11 from the Patriot Act
through the war in Iraq.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Bush also appointed as our envoy to Afghanistan
Zalmay Khalilzad, who was also a former Unocal advisor."
"Mr. Khalilzad himself knows how compasses change. In the mid-1990's,
he briefly defended the Taliban while working as a consultant for
Unocal, the oil company that was then trying to build a pipeline
through Afghanistan. He later became one of the Taliban's fiercest
critics." Amy Waldman, "Afghan Returns Home as American Ambassador,"
New York Times, April 19, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Afghanistan signed the agreement to build a pipeline
through its country carrying natural gas from the Caspian Sea ."
"The framework agreement defines legal mechanisms for setting up a
consortium to build and operate the long-delayed US$3.2-billion
natural gas pipeline, known as the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline, which
would carry gas from energy-rich Turkmenistan to Pakistan. It would be
one of the first major investment projects in Afghanistan in decades."
Baglia Bukharbayeva "Pakistani, Turkmen, Afghan Leaders Sign US$3.2
Billion Pipeline Deal," Associated Press, December 27, 2002.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "In the year 2000, [John Ashcroft] was running for
re-election as Senator from Missouri against a man who died the month
before the election. The voters preferred the dead guy."
"Sen. John Ashcroft on Wednesday graciously conceded defeat in his
re-election campaign against the late Gov. Mel Carnahan and urged
fellow Republicans to call off any legal challenges." Eric Stern,
"Ashcroft Rejects Challenge To Election; Senator Says He Hopes
Carnahan's Victory Will Be ĹOf Comfort' To Widow,"St. Louis
Post-Dispatch, November 9, 2000 .
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "During the summer before 9/11, Ashcroft told acting
FBI director Thomas Pickard that he didn't want to hear anything more
about terrorist threats."
"Former interim FBI chief Thomas Pickard testified Tuesday that Atty.
Gen. John Ashcroft didn't want to hear about terrorism when Pickard
tried to brief him during the summer of 2001, as intelligence reports
about terrorist threats were reaching a historic level." Cam Simpson,
"Ashcroft Ignored Terrorism, Panel Told; Attorney General Denies
Charges, Blames Clinton," Chicago Tribune, April 14, 2004.
See also film footage.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "His own FBI knew that summer that there were al
Qaeda members in the U.S. , and that bin Laden was sending his agents
to flight schools throughout the country."
[T]he July 2001 ĹPhoenix' memo, written by an FBI agent in Arizona,
warned about Ĺan inordinate number of individuals of investigative
interest' taking flight training. It urged the agency to collect data
on flight schools and foreign students, and to discuss the potential
threat with other intelligence agencies. ...[O]ne of the men mentioned
in the memo was arrested in Pakistan in 2002 with a senior al Qaeda
facilitator, Abu Zubayda. R. Jeffrey Smith, "A History of Missed
Connections; U.S. Analysts Warned of Potential Attacks but Lacked
Follow-Through," Washington Post, July 25, 2003.
Excerpt from "Phoenix Memo": "The purpose of this communication is to
advise the Bureau and New York of the possibility of a coordinated
effort by USAMA BIN LADEN (UBL) to send students to the United States
to attend civil aviation universities and colleges. Phoenix has
observed an inordinate number of individuals of investigative interest
who are attending or who have attended civil aviation universities and
colleges in the State of Arizona." Read the entire Phoenix Memo at:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/911.html
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "[T]he photo of the man in the newspaper was not the
Aaron Stokes they had come to know, [a member of Peace Fresno]. He was
actually Deputy Aaron Kilner. And he had infiltrated their group."
"Aaron Kilner, 27, who joined the force in June 1999 and had been
assigned the last 18 months to the anti-terrorist team under the
vice-intelligence unit, apparently was killed instantly when his blue
Yamaha motorcycle slammed into the right front side of a 1999 Buick,
Fresno police said." Louis Galvan, "Crash Kills Off-Duty Detective,
Victim Joined Fresno County Force in 1999," Fresno Bee, August 31,
2003.
"It remains unclear why the Fresno County Sheriff's Department
infiltrated the peace group there, but Pierce said his department's
actions were legal. ĹWe can be anywhere we want to that's open to the
public,' Pierce said in a telephone interview from his Fresno office."
Sam Stanton and Emily Bazar, "More Scrutiny of Peace Groups, Public
Safety Justifies Surveillance Since 9/11, Authorities Say," Sacramento
Bee, November 9, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Barry Reingold's story.
"Then there's San Franciscan Barry Reingold, who was awakened from his
afternoon nap by a buzzing intercom on Oct. 23. He called down to the
street to find out who it was. ĹThe FBI,' was the response. He buzzed
the two men up, but decided to meet them in the hall. ĹI was a little
bit shaken up,' says Mr. Reingold. ĹI mean, why would the FBI be
interested in me, a 60-year-old retired phone company worker?' When
they asked if he worked out at a certain gym, he realized the reason
behind the visit. The gym is where he lifts weights -- and expounds on
his political views." Kris Axtman, "Political Dissent Can Bring
Federal Agents to Door," Christian Science Monitor, January 8, 2002.
See also, Sam Stanton, Emily Bazar, "Security Collides With Civil
Rights, War On Terrorism Has Unforeseen Results," Modesto Bee,
September 28, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Congress did not read the Patriot Act before voting
on it.
"Later that morning [of October 12], the House voted 337-79 to pass
the bill. The outraged dissenters complained that no one could
possibly have had the time to read the enormously complex 342-page law
that amended fifteen different federal statutes and that had only been
printed out hours before." Steven Brill, After; How America Confronted
the September 12 Era, (Simon & Schuster, NY: 2003).
"Many lawmakers were outraged that a bipartisan bill, which had passed
the Judiciary Committee by a unanimous vote, was set aside for
legislation negotiated at the last minute by a very small group.
Members rose to say that almost no one had read the new bill, and
pleaded for more time and more deliberation.... Asked about complaints
that lawmakers were being asked to vote on a bill that they had not
read, the chairman of the Rules Committee, Representative David
Dreier, Republican of California, replied, ĹIt's not unprecedented.'"
Robin Toner & Neil A. Lewis, "House Passes Terrorism Bill Much Like
Senate's, but With 5-Year Limit," The New York Times, October 13,
2001.
See also film footage of Congressmen Conyers and McDermott.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Transportation Security Agency says it's okay to take
four books of matches and two butane lighters in your pockets as you
board an airplane.
"Consistent with Department of Transportation regulations for
hazardous materials, passengers also are permitted to carry no more
than four books of matches (other than strike anywhere matches) and no
more than two lighters for individual use, if the lighters are fueled
with liquefied gas (BIC-or Colibri-type) or absorbed liquid
(Zippo-type).'' 49 CFR 1540;
http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/68_FR_9902.pdf
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Thanks to the budget cuts, Trooper Kenyon had to
come in on his day off to catch up on some paperwork."
"Budget cuts that laid off 129 Oregon State Police officers earlier
this year have left a single trooper to cover the 1,400-square-mile
territory and 100 miles of state roads around this city on Oregon's
central coast." "Layoffs Leave Oregon Trooper Alone in Big Coastal
Territory," Seattle Times, October 6, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "On March 19th, 2003, George W. Bush and the United
States military invaded Iraq, which had never attacked or threatened
to attack the United States. A nation that had never murdered a single
American citizen."
"Iraq has never threatened nor been implicated in any attack against
U.S. territory and the CIA has reported no Iraqi-sponsored attacks
against American interests since 1991." Stephen Zunes, "An Annotated
Overview of the Foreign Policy Segments of President George W. Bush's
State of the Union Address," Foreign Policy In Focus, January 29,
2003. Segments of President George W. Bush's State of the Union
Address," Foreign Policy In Focus, January 29, 2003
"Iraq never threatened U.S.security. Bush officials cynically attacked
a villainous country because they knew it was easier than finding the
real 9/11 villain, who had no country. And now they're hoist on their
own canard." Maureen Dowd, "We're Not Happy Campers," The New York
Times, September 11, 2003.
"Iraq never threatened the US, let alone Australia. The basic
consideration was and remains the perception of America's wider
strategic interest in the Middle East." Richard Woolcott, "Thread bare
Basis To The Homespun Yarn That Led Us Into Iraq," Sydney Morning
Herald, November 26, 2003Ś(Woolcott was Australia's Secretary of the
Department of Foreign Affairs And Trade during the first Gulf War.)
For definition of murder of civilians (as opposed to combatants), see
Article 3 of the Geneva Convention . ("For persons taking no active
part in the hostilities, the following acts are and shall remain
prohibited at any time (a) Violence to life and person, in particular
murder of all kinds.")
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: The Coalition of the Willing included Palau, Costa
Rica, Iceland, Romania, The Netherlands, and Afghanistan.
White House list of Coalition members, March 20th, 2003:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/print/20030320-11.html
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Morocco , according to one report, offered to send
2,000 monkeys to help detonate landmines.
"The administration has even turned to the animal kingdom for help in
the war. First came the dolphins, those really smart mammals recruited
to help clear mines at the Iraqi port of Umm Qasr. Then came word that
Morocco was offering 2,000 monkeys to help detonate land mines." Al
Kamen, "They Got the ĹSlov' Part Right," Washington Post, March 28,
2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "The government would not allow any cameras to show
the coffins coming home."
"For the past 13 years, the Pentagon has barred reporters from
witnessing the transport of soldiers' flag-draped coffins to Dover Air
Force Base in Delaware." Amanda Ripley, "An Image of Grief Returns,"
Time, May 3, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "At the end of January, of '04, the unemployment rate
in Flint was actually 17 percent."
Flint City, Jan 04, Unemployment Rate, 17.0%. Office of Labor Market
Information, Michigan State Government.
http://www.michlmi.org/LMI/lmadata/laus/lausdocs/049lf04.htm
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Bush "proposed cutting the soldiers' combat bonus pay
33 percent and assistance to their families by 60 percent."
The Bush administration announced that it would roll-back Ĺmodest'
increases of benefits to troops. The Army Times noted, "the
administration announced that on Oct. 1 it wants to roll back recent
modest increases in monthly imminent-danger from $225 to $150 (a cut
of 33%) and family-separation allowances from $250 to $100 (a cut of
60%) for troops getting shot at in combat zones."
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292259-1989240.php
"Thanks to a law passed this year, troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and
other high-risk areas now receive $225 a month in supplemental pay.
That's an increase of $75 from the previous amount for combat pay.
Under that same law, soldiers who have been forced to leave behind
spouses and children receive $250 a month in additional separation pay
to help cover child care and other additional expenses caused by
assignment overseas. That's an increase of $150 over the previous
supplement. ... In its 2004 budget request, the Pentagon asked
Congress to cut both combat pay and separation pay back to the
previous levels." "Our Opinions: Proposal to Reduce Pay No Way to
Salute Military," Atlanta Journal Constitution, August 15, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "He proposed cutting $1.3 billion in veterans' health
care and closing seven veteran's hospitals. He tried to double the
prescription drug costs for veterans and opposed full benefits for
part time reservist."
"On Nov. 12, the Office of Management & Budget opposed restoring $1.3
billion in funding for Veterans Administration hospitals that the
House Appropriations Committee had cut. ''It's as if they're not even
aware [that] there's a war on terror going on,' says Steve Thomas, an
American Legion spokesman and Navy vet who notes casualties in Iraq
could make demand for VA services soar." Stan Crock in Washington,
with William C. Symonds in Boston, "Will The Troops Salute Bush In
'04?," Business Week, December 8, 2003.
"The White House had expressed its Ĺstrong opposition' to the Senate's
effort to expand military health benefits to reservists and National
Guard members, and boost 'veterans' health care spending by $1.3
billion." Jonathan Weisman, "Bush Aides Threaten Veto of Iraqi Aid
Measure," Washington Post, October 22, 2003.
In early 2003, the Bush administration announced that it was closing
"seven of its 163 veteran's hospitals in an effort to Ĺrestructure'
the Department of Veterans Affairs." Suzanne Gamboa, "VA Proposes
Overhaul, 13 Facilities Would Close or See Major Changes," Associated
Press, August 4, 2003.
In 2003, the Bush administration proposed increasing prescription drug
costs for veterans, a proposal that would have doubled the cost of
prescription drugs. "The Bush plan would have included a new $250
enrollment fee and a co-pay increase from $7 to $15 for veterans
earning over $24,000." The House amended the proposal to reject the
Bush administration's fee increases and to recoup the $264 million in
costs by reducing administrative funding for the VA. "Panel Rejects
Extra Funds for AmeriCorps," Washington Post, July 22, 2003.
"The Bush administration is flatly opposed to giving the Guard and
Reserve access to the Pentagon's health system." Opinion, The Daily
News Leader (Staunton, VA), October 25, 2003.
"U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., has helped push a bill through the
Senate to improve the health care benefits of Guard and Reserve
members. This bill has had broad bipartisan support since it was
introduced in May. Last week Graham had his health care plan attached
as an amendment to the $87 billion supplemental appropriations bill
that President Bush is seeking to pay for ongoing operations in Iraq
and Afghanistan. The House should take up the amendment next week.
Strangely, the Bush administration has opposed this new benefit for
Guard and Reserve members, arguing that it would be too expensive."
Staff, "Helping our Guard and Reserve," The Greenville News, October
16, 2003.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Nearly 5,000 wounded in the war.
"A year ago at this time, more than 160 American soldiers had been
killed in Iraq. The total since has risen to more than 800, and last
week the Pentagon reported that the number wounded in action is
approaching 4,700." Pete Yost, "Bush Hails U.S. War Dead and
Veterans," Associated Press, June 1, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "Out of the 535 members of Congress, only one had an
enlisted son in Iraq."
"Only four of the 535 members of Congress have children in the
military; only one, Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D., has a child who fought
in Iraq." Kevin Horrigan, "Hired Guns," St. Louis Post-Dispatch, May
11, 2003.
Bobs <bl...@blah.co.nz> wrote in message news:<HAcLc.6891> Moore is a fucking liar, and you're a disgrace for following his lies.
Bobs
Brett Dale wrote:
> Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine as you called me, have
> in his cd collection, Garth Brooks, Hank Williams Jnr, George Strait,
> Randy Travis, Toby Keith (yes Toby Keith, I like his music dont agree
> with his politics)?
Who? Is that some hillbilly thing going on there, Brent?
>
> Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine visited the states six
> times?
Steve does, and he's a hammer and sickle saluting communist leader.
>
> Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine, be a follower of the
> American sports NFL, NHL and Track and field?
I guess we know the answer now.
>
> Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine, go to Catherdal
> square and leave a note and flowers to honor the victims on september
> 13?
The war on terrorists isn't against commies. Although it probably should be.
>
> Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine, go the offices of
> Peace action newzeland, calling them everyname under the sun on
> September 15th
> for thier action of tearing down peoples notes of sympathy and
> replacing them with anti american solgans.
What's this??!?
>
> Would a disgusting pox infested communist swine, go meet Clinton at
> apec and give him a standing ovation.
I hope that's a joke?
te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com
<st...@anyoldnewsgroupwilldo.org.nz> wrote:
>Brett Dale wrote:
>
>> There have been a lot of people sayin this movie is full of lies,
>> without actually giving out what lies their are, unlike Michael Moore
>> who has listed every fact from the movie on his web page.
>
>They say Moore is lying because he doesn't agree with Bill O'Reilly,
>Sean Hanity and G W Bush.
>
Strange that Moore hasn't the guts to appear on Bill O"Reilly's show
despite several invitations.
Cath
steve
Why give O'Reilly any credibility?
It's not as though O'Reilly would actually let Moore SAY anything.
I've seen O'Reilly's interview with Jeremy Glick....and is easily one of the
worst performances I've ever seen by a TV host.
O'Reilly is as mad as a hatter.
Bill E. Goat Gruff III
> te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:13:12 +1200, steve
>><st...@anyoldnewsgroupwilldo.org.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Brett Dale wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>There have been a lot of people sayin this movie is full of lies,
>>>>without actually giving out what lies their are, unlike Michael Moore
>>>>who has listed every fact from the movie on his web page.
>>>
>>>They say Moore is lying because he doesn't agree with Bill O'Reilly,
>>>Sean Hanity and G W Bush.
>>>
>>
>>Strange that Moore hasn't the guts to appear on Bill O"Reilly's show
>>despite several invitations.
>>
>>Cath
>
>
> Why give O'Reilly any credibility?
Who would give you any credibility, Mr "Mossad smashed the gravestones"?
>
> It's not as though O'Reilly would actually let Moore SAY anything.
It's not a though you'd let us SAY anything.
>
> I've seen O'Reilly's interview with Jeremy Glick....and is easily one of the
> worst performances I've ever seen by a TV host.
>
> O'Reilly is as mad as a hatter.
Takes one to know one.
Tom Enright
> >Like Soros now owns the Democrats?
> Mr. Soros does not own the Democrats.
If he doesn't, he's renting a big chunk of them.
-TOE
te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com
wrote:
>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:13:12 +1200, steve
>> <st...@anyoldnewsgroupwilldo.org.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>Brett Dale wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been a lot of people sayin this movie is full of lies,
>>>> without actually giving out what lies their are, unlike Michael Moore
>>>> who has listed every fact from the movie on his web page.
>>>
>>>They say Moore is lying because he doesn't agree with Bill O'Reilly,
>>>Sean Hanity and G W Bush.
>>>
>>
>> Strange that Moore hasn't the guts to appear on Bill O"Reilly's show
>> despite several invitations.
>>
>> Cath
>
>Why give O'Reilly any credibility?
Why give Paul Holmes any credibility?
>
>It's not as though O'Reilly would actually let Moore SAY anything.
Know something the tv audience does not?
>
>I've seen O'Reilly's interview with Jeremy Glick....and is easily one of the
>worst performances I've ever seen by a TV host.
So what!
No one is on this earth as a interviewer to be perfect all the time.
>O'Reilly is as mad as a hatter.
Like I have asked of you before, do you have a piece of paper saying
that you are sane??
It would be a freaking boring world if we were all the 'perfect
person' you would want us to be....
CAth
Tom Enright
> None of the factual evidence in the film is in error. Prove it if you
> can...once you've seen the movie, of course.
Actually "factual evidence" can't be in error. Fake evidence, the kind
Michael Moore favors, is in all of his movies.
Because myself and other have proved Moore is a liar time and again,
and you seem immune to the truth, I don't believe that you would pay
attention anyway.
I learned of two more Moore lies today:
http://tvh.rjwest.com/archives/005307.html
Moore misrepresents a newspaper headline.
http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/comments/847/
Moore says that only one congressman has a child at war when it
is actually seven.
-TOE
Tarla
wrote:
>Tarla
>
>> None of the factual evidence in the film is in error. Prove it if you
>> can...once you've seen the movie, of course.
>
>Actually "factual evidence" can't be in error. Fake evidence, the kind
>Michael Moore favors, is in all of his movies.
Give an example. I'm betting you can't. Firstly because you haven't
seen the film, and secondly because after Columbine, Moore has made
doubly sure that his critics have nothing to work with.
>
>Because myself and other have proved Moore is a liar time and again,
>and you seem immune to the truth, I don't believe that you would pay
>attention anyway.
>
>I learned of two more Moore lies today:
>
>http://tvh.rjwest.com/archives/005307.html
>
>Moore misrepresents a newspaper headline.
Perhaps...but it's not the headline, it's the date of the paper.
>
>http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/comments/847/
>
>Moore says that only one congressman has a child at war when it
>is actually seven.
No only one. The other six are no where near harm's way. Yes...seven
whole people out of 535 members of Congress. They really back
themselves, don't they?
Tarla
wrote:
>Tarla
Soros has his own agenda. His Open Society org. donates money to over
50 countries. I admire Mr. Soros greatly. He's another Bucky Fuller in
my mind. Quit knee-jerking and find out what he's really about.
http://www.soros.org/about
Tarla
wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:07:01 +1200, steve <st...@nevernowut.org.nz>
>wrote:
>
>>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:13:12 +1200, steve
>>> <st...@anyoldnewsgroupwilldo.org.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Brett Dale wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been a lot of people sayin this movie is full of lies,
>>>>> without actually giving out what lies their are, unlike Michael Moore
>>>>> who has listed every fact from the movie on his web page.
>>>>
>>>>They say Moore is lying because he doesn't agree with Bill O'Reilly,
>>>>Sean Hanity and G W Bush.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Strange that Moore hasn't the guts to appear on Bill O"Reilly's show
>>> despite several invitations.
>>>
>>> Cath
>>
>>Why give O'Reilly any credibility?
>
>Why give Paul Holmes any credibility?
I don't. And I don't understand why those who watch him and
bitch...watch him at all. My life is no less interesting because I've
never seen an episode of Holmes.
>
>>
>>It's not as though O'Reilly would actually let Moore SAY anything.
>
>Know something the tv audience does not?
>>
>>I've seen O'Reilly's interview with Jeremy Glick....and is easily one of the
>>worst performances I've ever seen by a TV host.
>
>So what!
>No one is on this earth as a interviewer to be perfect all the time.
But O'Reilly has made cutting off the other guy an art form.
ofn01
"Tarla" <tarla...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:94ltf0lr3ceq6sh56...@4ax.com...
> On 21 Jul 2004 13:01:33 -0700, alic...@yahoo.com (Tom Enright)
> wrote:
>
> >Tarla
> >
> >> None of the factual evidence in the film is in error. Prove it if you
> >> can...once you've seen the movie, of course.
> >
> >Actually "factual evidence" can't be in error. Fake evidence, the kind
> >Michael Moore favors, is in all of his movies.
>
> Give an example. I'm betting you can't. Firstly because you haven't
> seen the film, and secondly because after Columbine, Moore has made
> doubly sure that his critics have nothing to work with.
> >
> >Because myself and other have proved Moore is a liar time and again,
> >and you seem immune to the truth, I don't believe that you would pay
> >attention anyway.
> >
> >I learned of two more Moore lies today:
> >
> >http://tvh.rjwest.com/archives/005307.html
> >
> >Moore misrepresents a newspaper headline.
>
> Perhaps...but it's not the headline, it's the date of the paper.
This is precisely where Moore goes wrong.
His distortion of the truth, it is a well established phrase that is fast
becoming synonymous with Michael Moore. Here, yet again, he takes an item
that supposedly represents something, presents it out of context (tries to
present it as a newspaper headline rather than a letters page letter
subject), and even worse it would appear that he doctors the information!
What is the point in seeing a movie that has so many people from both sides
of the political fence dissecting his movies and finding distortion after
distortion???
If you see the movie, then all you're seeing is a distortion of the
truth????
And my original question or idea to discuss was, why does he need to do this
when there appears to be such a wealth of information out there about the GW
Bush issue?? Why does he distort the truth about it??
> >
> >http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/comments/847/
> >
> >Moore says that only one congressman has a child at war when it
> >is actually seven.
>
> No only one. The other six are no where near harm's way. Yes...seven
> whole people out of 535 members of Congress. They really back
> themselves, don't they?
Id say fair enough on this one, sure its a little bit liberal with the
actual fact of how many children of congress are affiliated in a military
sense with Iraq, but like you say, even with seven out of 535, its still a
pretty low figure.
TOE
"ofn01" <
> "Tarla" <tarla...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> > No only one. The other six are no where near harm's way. Yes...seven
> > whole people out of 535 members of Congress. They really back
> > themselves, don't they?
> Id say fair enough on this one, sure its a little bit liberal with the
> actual fact of how many children of congress are affiliated in a military
> sense with Iraq, but like you say, even with seven out of 535, its still a
> pretty low figure.
Actually it is high.
If you compare it to the population of the United
States it should be about 3. 7 out of 535 is
more than twice the general public's rate.
-TOE
TOE
"Tarla" <
> On 21 Jul 2004 05:40:29 -0700, alic...@yahoo.com (Tom Enright)
> wrote:
> >If he doesn't, he's renting a big chunk of them.
> Soros has his own agenda. His Open Society org. donates money to over
> 50 countries. I admire Mr. Soros greatly. He's another Bucky Fuller in
> my mind. Quit knee-jerking and find out what he's really about.
> http://www.soros.org/about
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/wilhelm200402190857.asp
He wrote an Anti-American book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586482173/ref%3Dnosim/nationalreviewon/102-2703520-7117769
George Soros says that the prison abuse scandal was as bad as 9/11:
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200406031106.asp
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004764
I think he's a tool.
-TOE
TOE
"Tarla"
> >http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/comments/847/
> >
> >Moore says that only one congressman has a child at war when it
> >is actually seven.
> No only one. The other six are no where near harm's way. Yes...seven
> whole people out of 535 members of Congress. They really back
> themselves, don't they?
7 out of 535, more than twice the average of the rest of America.
Do congressmen decide where units are deployed? It is seven
that can be ordered into combat at any time.
-TOE
David Pears
<then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>> Id say fair enough on this one, sure its a little bit liberal with the
>> actual fact of how many children of congress are affiliated in a military
>> sense with Iraq, but like you say, even with seven out of 535, its still a
>> pretty low figure.
>
>Actually it is high.
>
>If you compare it to the population of the United
>States it should be about 3. 7 out of 535 is
>more than twice the general public's rate.
Where do you get that figure? Population of US is about 300million.
Number of troops in Iraq about 150thousand. Therefore 1 in every 2000
US people is in Iraq.
David
Tarla
wrote:
I wouldn't know about that part and since that particular shot is on
screen for all of a tenth of a second, no one who wasn't going through
the film frame-by-frame would notice. It's part of a montage of things
and making a big deal of a misprinted date on a newpaper that no one
even has time to read more than a couple words of (if that), is really
working hard to make Moore wrong.
>
>What is the point in seeing a movie that has so many people from both sides
>of the political fence dissecting his movies and finding distortion after
>distortion???
It causes debate and discussion...always better than acceptance and
unquestioned authority.
>
>If you see the movie, then all you're seeing is a distortion of the
>truth????
You see the movie and then say that...unless you're afraid that you're
not strong enough to stand up to Moore's "propaganda."
>
>And my original question or idea to discuss was, why does he need to do this
>when there appears to be such a wealth of information out there about the GW
>Bush issue?? Why does he distort the truth about it??
>
>> >
>> >http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/comments/847/
>> >
>> >Moore says that only one congressman has a child at war when it
>> >is actually seven.
>>
>> No only one. The other six are no where near harm's way. Yes...seven
>> whole people out of 535 members of Congress. They really back
>> themselves, don't they?
>
>Id say fair enough on this one, sure its a little bit liberal with the
>actual fact of how many children of congress are affiliated in a military
>sense with Iraq, but like you say, even with seven out of 535, its still a
>pretty low figure.
--
Tarla
<then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
Wonder how it compares to the rate in Flynt Michigan
Tarla
<then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>
>"Tarla"
>
>> >http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/comments/847/
>> >
>> >Moore says that only one congressman has a child at war when it
>> >is actually seven.
>
>> No only one. The other six are no where near harm's way. Yes...seven
>> whole people out of 535 members of Congress. They really back
>> themselves, don't they?
>
>7 out of 535, more than twice the average of the rest of America.
>
>Do congressmen decide where units are deployed? It is seven
>that can be ordered into combat at any time.
Not if they don't have a necessary MOS. Why would they send a
general's driver or a German translator to Iraq? They would only go if
they were grunts or had critical MOS's...and Congressperson's children
are never grunts.
Tarla
<then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>
>"Tarla" <
>
>> On 21 Jul 2004 05:40:29 -0700, alic...@yahoo.com (Tom Enright)
>> wrote:
>
>> >If he doesn't, he's renting a big chunk of them.
>
>> Soros has his own agenda. His Open Society org. donates money to over
>> 50 countries. I admire Mr. Soros greatly. He's another Bucky Fuller in
>> my mind. Quit knee-jerking and find out what he's really about.
>> http://www.soros.org/about
>
>http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/wilhelm200402190857.asp
>
>He wrote an Anti-American book:
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586482173/ref%3Dnosim/nationalreviewon/102-2703520-7117769
>
>George Soros says that the prison abuse scandal was as bad as 9/11:
>http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200406031106.asp
This is what he said:
"The picture of torture in Saddam's prison was a moment of truth for
us," Soros said Thursday morning in Washington at a meeting of the
liberal activist group Campaign for America's Future.
"I think that those pictures hit us the same way as the terrorist
attack itself," Soros continued, "not quite with the same force,
because in the terrorist attack, we were the victims. In the pictures,
we were the perpetrators and others were the victims."
"But there is, I'm afraid, a direct connection between those two
events, because the way President Bush conducted the war on terror
converted us from victims into perpetrators."
You have misrepresented his words.
>http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004764
Nothing in this article makes me like Mr. Soros any less.
>
>I think he's a tool.
And I think you're a fool.
John Cawston
There are 1.4 million people on active duty against a population of 293
million. Thats 1 in 209 in the military. If there are 7 of 535 congressmen's
kids who have served, thats near enough three times as many as the general
population.
If you add in the Reserve and National Guard you crack over 2 million or
more than 1 per 100. Thus the Congress still does substantially better.
So the business of trying to impugn Blair and Bush's motives for going to
war are slowly unravelling.
On WMD, 4 enquiries show it was a reasonable assumption, shared by
*everyone* who mattered.
On the Niger yellowcake, true. And "honest" Joe Wilson shown to be a liar.
Michael Moore's fabrications shown up in nearly every respect.
And Sandy Berger shown to be a thief of national security secrets, stealing
Richard Clark's exposure of Clinton's security arrangements.
Clark, Wilson and Berger, all working for John Kerry's election. Moore also.
How can JK lose?
JC
>
> David
TOE
"David Pears"
7 out of 535 Congressmen have children in the military.
2.7 out of every 535 Americans have a child in the military.
-TOE
>
> David
TOE
"Tarla" <
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:06:33 -0400, "TOE"
> <then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
> >"Tarla"
> >
> >> No only one. The other six are no where near harm's way. Yes...seven
> >> whole people out of 535 members of Congress. They really back
> >> themselves, don't they?
> >7 out of 535, more than twice the average of the rest of America.
> >
> >Do congressmen decide where units are deployed? It is seven
> >that can be ordered into combat at any time.
> Not if they don't have a necessary MOS. Why would they send a
> general's driver or a German translator to Iraq? They would only go if
> they were grunts or had critical MOS's...and Congressperson's children
> are never grunts.
You don't know that. I am not interested in looking it
up either to prove you wrong yet again. Where did
you read/hear that no Congressmen have children as
foot soldiers?
-TOE
Tarla
<then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>
>"Tarla" <
>
>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:06:33 -0400, "TOE"
>> <then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>
>> >"Tarla"
>> >
>
>> >> No only one. The other six are no where near harm's way. Yes...seven
>> >> whole people out of 535 members of Congress. They really back
>> >> themselves, don't they?
>
>> >7 out of 535, more than twice the average of the rest of America.
>> >
>> >Do congressmen decide where units are deployed? It is seven
>> >that can be ordered into combat at any time.
>
>> Not if they don't have a necessary MOS. Why would they send a
>> general's driver or a German translator to Iraq? They would only go if
>> they were grunts or had critical MOS's...and Congressperson's children
>> are never grunts.
>
>You don't know that. I am not interested in looking it
>up either to prove you wrong yet again. Where did
>you read/hear that no Congressmen have children as
>foot soldiers?
I was in the service during the Vietnam War. I met two
Congresscritter's kids, dated one of them, both were officers, both
were translators. Do you really think that a Congressman with the
connections they have would allow their child to go into harms way if
they could avoid it? Grunts are uneducated, and have no other option.
If you'd been in the military you'd know that. You're tested and
assigned a specialty based on your aptitude. Bush sure as fuck didn't
have to go in as a grunt. He even got past a ten year waiting list and
got a cushy job learning how to fly a plane that would never be used
in Vietnam.
ofn01
We are already debating it without me having seen the movie and you having
seen it.
I mean would we have trouble debating whether a political propaganda movie
contained lies or distortions of the truth if enough people who *had* seen
it wrote detailed comments both ways for others to read?
> >
> >If you see the movie, then all you're seeing is a distortion of the
> >truth????
>
> You see the movie and then say that...unless you're afraid that you're
> not strong enough to stand up to Moore's "propaganda."
I don't want to pay for something that is so widely publicised as being full
of distortions. If there were only one or two sources, and if they were from
obviously bias sources then I wouldn't pay them a huge amount of attention.
But what gets me is the wide variety, from both political sides of the
fence, with such detailed analysis of his movie pointing out the clever ways
in which information is misrepresented.
My main point actually was to question why he needs to do this if there is
such a strong case for his viewpoint?
> >
> >And my original question or idea to discuss was, why does he need to do
this
> >when there appears to be such a wealth of information out there about the
GW
> >Bush issue?? Why does he distort the truth about it??
Here it is again, why does he distort the truth about it?
Geoff McCaughan
> On WMD, 4 enquiries show it was a reasonable assumption, shared by
> *everyone* who mattered.
This only shows that "*everyone* who mattered" is too stupid and gullible to
be in control of a pop-gun let alone a country.
--
Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.
Tom Enright
That took a lot of words to say "You are correct Tom."
BTW: Why isn't John Ashcroft able to keep his son out of combat?
-TOE
"Similar meetings between Iraqi officials and Bin Ladin or his aides
may
have occurred in 1999 during a period of some reported strains with
the
Taliban. According to the reporting, Iraqi officials offered Bin Ladin
a safe haven in Iraq. Bin Ladin declined, apparently judging that his
circumstances in Afghanistan remained more favorable than the Iraqi
alternative. The reports describe friendly contacts and indicate some
common themes in both sides' hatred of the United States." -9/11
Commission
Tarla
wrote:
>> You see the movie and then say that...unless you're afraid that you're
>> not strong enough to stand up to Moore's "propaganda."
>
>I don't want to pay for something that is so widely publicised as being full
>of distortions. If there were only one or two sources, and if they were from
>obviously bias sources then I wouldn't pay them a huge amount of attention.
>But what gets me is the wide variety, from both political sides of the
>fence, with such detailed analysis of his movie pointing out the clever ways
>in which information is misrepresented.
>My main point actually was to question why he needs to do this if there is
>such a strong case for his viewpoint?
Firstly: I read a number of newspapers every day online, and have made
it a point to read reviews from both conservative and liberal papers,
and even FOX news gave this movie a good review. I don't where the
hell you're reading but it has not been widely publicised as full of
distortions. In fact, if you can find a factual error in the film,
Moore will pay you 10K US...go ahead and try.
Secondly: you don't have to pay for it. Download it off the net and
watch it. You have Moore's permission and his distributors don't mind.
>
>> >
>> >And my original question or idea to discuss was, why does he need to do
>this
>> >when there appears to be such a wealth of information out there about the
>GW
>> >Bush issue?? Why does he distort the truth about it??
>
>Here it is again, why does he distort the truth about it?
As far as I am concerned, he hasn't distorted a goddamned thing. He
says what I have been saying for four years.
Tarla
wrote:
>Tarla
You aren't correct, Tom...you didn't assert anything. You asked a
question.
>
>BTW: Why isn't John Ashcroft able to keep his son out of combat?
>
Fuck, he probably assigned him to combat thinking that if he was
anointed with oil, he was bulletproof or something. I know nothing
about Ashcroft's family. I don't even know if he has a son.
grimly bubble
Obviopusly he is a good bloke, honest, decent and agrees with you tarla...he
must be on the level.
Newsman
wrote:
he knows God will protect his son rom all harm.
Ashcroft is a raving Christian fundamentalist.
TOE
"Newsman"
> he knows God will protect his son rom all harm.
>
> Ashcroft is a raving Christian fundamentalist.
I've never seen him rage.
Either way, he's doing an execellent job.
-TOE
Brian Dooley
On 23 Jul 2004 12:03:42 -0700, alic...@yahoo.com (Tom Enright)
wrote:
snip---
>BTW: Why isn't John Ashcroft able to keep his son out of combat?
I don't really care, but as a matter of interest, what unit?
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
Tarla
<then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>
>"Newsman"
>
>> he knows God will protect his son rom all harm.
>>
>> Ashcroft is a raving Christian fundamentalist.
>
>I've never seen him rage.
Raving...not raging. He had his father annoint him with cooking oil
when he took office.
>
>Either way, he's doing an execellent job.
You're utterly and completely hopeless or a total troll.
Tom Enright
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:52:59 -0400, "TOE"
> <then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
> >"Newsman"
> >> Ashcroft is a raving Christian fundamentalist.
> >I've never seen him rage.
> Raving...not raging. He had his father annoint him with cooking oil
> when he took office.
I've never seen him rave either.
> >Either way, he's doing an execellent job.
> You're utterly and completely hopeless or a total troll.
What, specifically, don't you like about the job he is doing?
-TOE
Tarla
wrote:
>Tarla
He hasn't caught a single spy or terrorist and his department has
prosecuted over a hundred cases using the Patriot Act's
unconstitutional policing.
TOE
"Tarla"
> On 26 Jul 2004 08:21:18 -0700, alic...@yahoo.com (Tom Enright)
> wrote:
> >What, specifically, don't you like about the job he is doing?
> He hasn't caught a single spy or terrorist and his department has
> prosecuted over a hundred cases using the Patriot Act's
> unconstitutional policing.
That's not specific.
Heard of any shootings at abortion clinics lately?
Me neither. You think with a Christian wacko
in charge in would be open season.
-TOE
"Liberty for the wolves can mean death to the lambs."
Tarla
<then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>
>"Tarla"
>
>> On 26 Jul 2004 08:21:18 -0700, alic...@yahoo.com (Tom Enright)
>> wrote:
>
>> >What, specifically, don't you like about the job he is doing?
>
>> He hasn't caught a single spy or terrorist and his department has
>> prosecuted over a hundred cases using the Patriot Act's
>> unconstitutional policing.
>
>That's not specific.
>
>Heard of any shootings at abortion clinics lately?
>Me neither. You think with a Christian wacko
>in charge in would be open season.
No, he's too busy chasing bong sellers and turning back human rights
laws. He won't have to worry about dead abortion docs. He's demanding
medical records of women who've had abortions so that he can check
them out himself.
TOE
"Tarla"
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:58:12 -0400, "TOE"
> <then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
> >That's not specific.
> >
> >Heard of any shootings at abortion clinics lately?
> >Me neither. You think with a Christian wacko
> >in charge in would be open season.
> No, he's too busy chasing bong sellers and turning back human rights
> laws. He won't have to worry about dead abortion docs. He's demanding
> medical records of women who've had abortions so that he can check
> them out himself.
Which "human rights laws" would those be?
When Clinton was president and Reno was AG,
abortion docs would need bodyguards, not anymore.
As far as the abortion records, he doesn't want the
names of the individuals, he never asked for them.
-TOE
Tarla
<then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>
>"Tarla"
>
>> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:58:12 -0400, "TOE"
>> <then...@komBOINKcast.nYet> wrote:
>
>> >That's not specific.
>> >
>> >Heard of any shootings at abortion clinics lately?
>> >Me neither. You think with a Christian wacko
>> >in charge in would be open season.
>
>> No, he's too busy chasing bong sellers and turning back human rights
>> laws. He won't have to worry about dead abortion docs. He's demanding
>> medical records of women who've had abortions so that he can check
>> them out himself.
>
>Which "human rights laws" would those be?
On May 8, Attorney General John Ashcroft filed an amicus curiae brief
for the defense in a civil case alleging that the oil company Unocal
was complicit in forced labor and other abuses committed by the
Burmese military during the construction of the Yadana gas pipeline.
The case, John Doe I, et al. v. Unocal Corporation, et al., was
originally filed in 1996 and is currently being reheard by the U.S.
Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
The Justice Department brief went well beyond the scope of the Unocal
case, however, and argued for a radical re-interpretation of the 1789
Alien Tort Claims Act (ATCA). For over 20 years, courts have held that
the ATCA permits victims of serious violations of international law
abroad to seek civil damages in U.S. courts against their alleged
abusers who are found in the United States. The Justice Department
would deny victims the right to sue under the ATCA for abuses
committed abroad.
This is a craven attempt to protect human rights abusers at the
expense of victims, said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human
Rights Watch. The Bush administration is trying to overturn a
longstanding judicial precedent that has been very important in the
protection of human rights.”
>When Clinton was president and Reno was AG,
>abortion docs would need bodyguards, not anymore.
That's because they believe that Ashcroft et al will support their
position by overturning Roe v. Wade
"Ashcroft's activist approach to undermining constitutional principles
should disqualify him from holding the office of Attorney General.
Throughout his career, Ashcroft has been a leading proponent of
measures that would eliminate altogether the right of women to make
decisions about their reproductive health. He is on record in the U.S.
Senate as opposing the United States Supreme Court's decision in Roe
v. Wade. He is a major architect of the legal assaults on Roe, which
has been weakened by challenges from Missouri during Ashcroft's tenure
both as state Attorney General and Governor. He vigorously objects to
all abortions, even for women who have been raped or are the victims
of incest. He does not believe women should have access to the safest
methods of abortion to protect their health, and remains a leading
proponent of abortion bans that have been found unconstitutional by
the Supreme Court. He even opposes some of the most effective methods
of birth control.
http://www.crlp.org/pr_01_0109ash.html
>
>As far as the abortion records, he doesn't want the
>names of the individuals, he never asked for them.
He shouldn't be asking for any medical records...or library records or
bookstore records.
And how about the 762 innocent foreign men detained by the federal
government in the U.S. for months after 9/11? Does Ashcroft think
those men -- many of whom were subject to verbal and physical abuse
and had their civil rights respected?
"The Washington Post reported Monday that Ashcroft has authorized more
than 170 secret searches and/or wiretaps -- more than three times the
total authorized over the past 23 years by all other attorneys general
combined. Meanwhile, the Post reported, FBI field offices have issued
scores of so-called national security letters, a PATRIOT Act tool that
requires businesses to provide the FBI with information about an
individual's finances, telephone calls, e-mail messages and the like
-- all without a warrant and all without prior court approval. "
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/25/liberties/index1.html
and if this isn't enough, the fact that he even suggested, much less
intends to implement the Domestic Security Enhancement Act, should be
enough to have him charged with violating his oath to uphold the
Constitution.