Can You Pass A Law To Overturn Facts?

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

You may have heard of the “Rwanda Safety Bill” that Rishi Sunak’s
Government is currently trying to push through the UK Parliament.

The Court previously rejected their attempt to send unwanted illegal
immigrants to Rwanda, saying that it wasn’t a safe place for such
vulnerable people.

So to get around this judgement, now the UK Government is passing a law
declaring that, contrary to the facts, Rwanda *is* in fact a safe place
for sending these illegal immigrants.

Has such a thing ever been tried here? Would it even pass?

[Willy Nilly]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@nz.invalid> wrote:
>So to get around this judgement, now the UK Government is passing a law
>declaring that, contrary to the facts, Rwanda *is* in fact a safe place
>for sending these illegal immigrants.

We need a long-term power outage just so that clowns like you will
revise your priorities accordingly. Mindless leftism like yours is a
collateral damage of affluence, some hardship will wake you up.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 05:07:23 GMT, Willy Nilly wrote:

> Mindless leftism like yours ...

And there, people, is more evidence that the antiliberals believe that
reality itself is part of the leftist conspiracy against them.

[BR]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 03:47:00 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<l...@nz.invalid> wrote:

>You may have heard of the “Rwanda Safety Bill” that Rishi Sunak’s
>Government is currently trying to push through the UK Parliament.
>
>The Court previously rejected their attempt to send unwanted illegal
>immigrants to Rwanda, saying that it wasn’t a safe place for such
>vulnerable people.

All illegal immigrants are unwanted.

Entering a country illegally is a crime.

Illegal aliens are owed nothing and should be deported.

Bill.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Mutley]

BR <bl...@blah.blah> wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 03:47:00 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
><l...@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>You may have heard of the “Rwanda Safety Bill” that Rishi Sunak’s
>>Government is currently trying to push through the UK Parliament.
>>
>>The Court previously rejected their attempt to send unwanted illegal
>>immigrants to Rwanda, saying that it wasn’t a safe place for such
>>vulnerable people.
>
>All illegal immigrants are unwanted.
>
>Entering a country illegally is a crime.
>
>Illegal aliens are owed nothing and should be deported.
>
>Bill.

I seem to remember a guy called Idi Amin solved the problem by
throwing out non Ugandans. He got away with it. The Poms should be
able to do the same.

[Rich80105]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:02:54 +1300, Mutley <mutle...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Thankfully it is a problem that New Zealand's physical distance from
other countries makes it not a problem that we have experience of. We
have however seen an Australian solution - see:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/apr/08/manus-island-and-nauru-previously-unseen-testimony-and-ai-imagery-reveal-unimaginable-part-of-australian-history
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manus_Regional_Processing_Centre
and
https://amnesty.org.nz/manus-island-australia-abandons-refugees-life-uncertainty-and-peril

Given the cost, I doubt that even this government would try and repeat
such a "solution", but I am surprised that a cheaper option has not
been suggested based on unfortunate firearm accidents, or a boat being
sadly lost after departing New Zealand with rejected illegal
immigrants on board . . .

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:02:54 +1300, Mutley wrote:

> I seem to remember a guy called Idi Amin solved the problem by throwing
> out non Ugandans. He got away with it. The Poms should be able to do
> the same.

“The way a government treats refugees is very instructive because it shows
you how they would treat the rest of us if they thought they could get
away with it.”
-- Tony Benn

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 04:56:56 +1300, BR wrote:

> All illegal immigrants are unwanted.
>
> Entering a country illegally is a crime.
>
> Illegal aliens are owed nothing and should be deported.

Fine. If your position is “so Rwanda is a dangerous place, fuck the
refugees, they don’t deserve to be treated as human beings”, just come out
and say so. Don’t try to pretend that “Rwanda is a perfectly safe place,
we’re honestly doing the best we can for them, they’ll be fine, pinky-
swear”. And don’t try to pass a law saying no judge is allowed to take
issue with that.

[Tony]

Is that your preferred solution then? If so was that part of the last
goverment's plans or are you looking forwards to the next Marxist government
here?

[Rich80105]

Whoosh . . . right over your head, "Right", Tony? It may have missed
but did you notice that Rishi Sunak's government is a right wing
government; and the Australian Governments that treated illegal
immigrants so dreadfully, both on humanitarian terms and in terms of
cost to that country, was a government of the Right. Nothing negative
about governments of the left in the whole story until you decided to
blame the innocent . . . I suspect you tried not to see that Jacinda
Ardern attempted to relieve some of the suffering by indicating that
New Zealand would take some of the people treated so badly by
Australia.

[Tony]

Removed stupid political rhetotic.
Clearly Rich prefers to kill immigrants.
Shame on him.

[Rich80105]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 03:26:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Whoosh . . . right over your head, "Right", Tony? It may have missed
but did you notice that Rishi Sunak's government is a right wing
government; and the Australian Governments that treated illegal
immigrants so dreadfully, both on humanitarian terms and in terms of
cost to that country, was a government of the Right. Nothing negative
about governments of the left in the whole story until you decided to
blame the innocent . . . I suspect you tried not to see that Jacinda
Ardern attempted to relieve some of the suffering by indicating that
New Zealand would take some of the people treated so badly by
Australia.

So now you believe you can avoid facts by deleting them from posts,
Tony. I do feel sorry for you; I raised concerns over the UK right
wing government's actions, and showed that the UK government contempt
for the safety of caught attempting to become illegal immigrants is a
consistent attitude from the left - with examples of deaths from
Australia sending such people to a place that, while not Rwanda, was
such that quite a few died before Australia had to act even slightly
humanely. An escalation to using blunt force to get rid of a problem
is typical of the escalation of hitting out that is typical of the
far-right; I contrasted that sort of lack of humanity with the
response from the then NZ government of offering to give some of those
sent to Manu Island by Australia admission to New Zealand - clearly I,
and that government, believe we should help people rather than harm
them.

And the response from Tiny? - a bare-faced lie - no Tony I have not
advocated immigrants, illegal or otherwise - we have enough of that
from Australia and now possibly the UK.

And deleting parts of posts that you cannot respond to says more about
you than anyone else, Tony.

[Tony]

>So now you believe you can avoid facts by deleting them from posts,
>Tony.

No not at all - you simply do not understand why I do that, and you never will.
But it works.
there wer no facts in your diatribe, just nastiness.

> I do feel sorry for you; I raised concerns over the UK right
>wing government's actions, and showed that the UK government contempt
>for the safety of caught attempting to become illegal immigrants is a
>consistent attitude from the left - with examples of deaths from
>Australia sending such people to a place that, while not Rwanda, was
>such that quite a few died before Australia had to act even slightly
>humanely. An escalation to using blunt force to get rid of a problem
>is typical of the escalation of hitting out that is typical of the
>far-right; I contrasted that sort of lack of humanity with the
>response from the then NZ government of offering to give some of those
>sent to Manu Island by Australia admission to New Zealand - clearly I,
>and that government, believe we should help people rather than harm
>them.
>

> I have not advocated immigrants, illegal or otherwise

You advocated drowning them.

> - we have enough of that
>from Australia and now possibly the UK.

Well that is what you said - you seem to believe it is appropriate to drown
them - why do you say such appalling things?
>
Nonsense gone for now.

[BR]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 00:05:05 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<l...@nz.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 04:56:56 +1300, BR wrote:
>
>> All illegal immigrants are unwanted.
>>
>> Entering a country illegally is a crime.
>>
>> Illegal aliens are owed nothing and should be deported.
>
>Fine. If your position is “so Rwanda is a dangerous place, fuck the
>refugees, they don’t deserve to be treated as human beings”,

How does anybody get to deserve anything? Is Rawanda a dangerous place
or not, and who gets to decide? Some court?

>just come out and say so.

Illegal aliens have no business being in Britain.

Would you want them in your house freeloading off you? No? Then don't
give me all the fake compassion and emotional blackmail.

>Don’t try to pretend that “Rwanda is a perfectly safe place,

Nowhere is a perfectly safe place. The UK is a hell of a lot less safe
since it allowed high levels of immigration from 3rd world countries.
Enoch Powell was right. You seem to believe illegal aliens should be
tolerated.

>we’re honestly doing the best we can for them, they’ll be fine, pinky-
>swear”.

The people of the UK owe them nothing. They are illegally in the
country. Let those who want them to stay volunteer to put them up in
their own houses and pay their expenses.

>And don’t try to pass a law saying no judge is allowed to take
>issue with that.

Who are these illegal "refugees"? Has anyone bothered to find out? Is
it even possible to do background checks on to try to discern what
their real intentions might be?

Either they are in the country legally or illegally. If they are in
the country illegally they should be deported. Simple as that.

The UK is a welfare state. Milton Friedman was right when he said you
can have a welfare state or you can have open borders, but you can't
have both.

The UK government's ONLY duty is to the UK citizens who they were
elected to represent and who pay their salaries. The only thing
illegal aliens are entitled to get is out.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

On Wed, 31 Jan 2024 17:54:36 +1300, BR wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 00:05:05 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <l...@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 04:56:56 +1300, BR wrote:
>>
>>> All illegal immigrants are unwanted.
>>>
>>> Entering a country illegally is a crime.
>>>
>>> Illegal aliens are owed nothing and should be deported.
>>
>> Fine. If your position is “so Rwanda is a dangerous place, fuck the

>> refugees, they don’t deserve to be treated as human beings”, just come
>> out and say so. Don’t try to pretend that “Rwanda is a perfectly safe
>> place, we’re honestly doing the best we can for them, they’ll be fine,
>> pinky- swear”. And don’t try to pass a law saying no judge is allowed

>> to take issue with that.
>

> How does anybody get to deserve anything? Is Rawanda a dangerous place
> or not, and who gets to decide? Some court?

That is their job, yes, and based on the facts put before them, they have
so decided.

Can you make up “alternative facts”, just because you want them to decide
something different?

> Illegal aliens have no business being in Britain.
>
> Would you want them in your house freeloading off you?

Give them a job, so they can work for an income, then they would no longer
be “freeloading”, would they? And they can pay taxes on that income, and
help reduce the tax burden on fine, upstanding citizens like yourself. Who
would not want that? Because I’m sure even your tax generosity has limits.

> Nowhere is a perfectly safe place.

Do you know what a “strawman” is?

> The UK government's ONLY duty is to the UK citizens who they were
> elected to represent and who pay their salaries.

Note that it isn’t only citizens who pay taxes. Others are contributing to
their salaries, too.

[BR]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 02:38:29 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

<l...@nz.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Jan 2024 17:54:36 +1300, BR wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 00:05:05 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>> <l...@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 04:56:56 +1300, BR wrote:
>>>
>>>> All illegal immigrants are unwanted.
>>>>
>>>> Entering a country illegally is a crime.
>>>>
>>>> Illegal aliens are owed nothing and should be deported.
>>>
>>> Fine. If your position is “so Rwanda is a dangerous place, fuck the
>>> refugees, they don’t deserve to be treated as human beings”, just come
>>> out and say so. Don’t try to pretend that “Rwanda is a perfectly safe
>>> place, we’re honestly doing the best we can for them, they’ll be fine,
>>> pinky- swear”. And don’t try to pass a law saying no judge is allowed
>>> to take issue with that.
>>
>> How does anybody get to deserve anything? Is Rawanda a dangerous place
>> or not, and who gets to decide? Some court?
>
>That is their job, yes, and based on the facts put before them, they have
>so decided.
>
>Can you make up “alternative facts”, just because you want them to decide
>something different?

Why the hell are the courts even involved in all this politics? If
someone has committed a crime, the court's job is to determine their
innocence or guilt. Illegal aliens are guilty of breaking the law just
by being in the country; bang to rights. Sheriff Joe Arpaio had the
right idea. Put them in a cage in pink underpants for six months then
launch them back across the border.

>> Illegal aliens have no business being in Britain.
>>
>> Would you want them in your house freeloading off you?
>
>Give them a job, so they can work for an income, then they would no longer
>be “freeloading”, would they?

How about you give them a job? If you are not even prepared to
billet some of them at your own house and at your own expense, you are
a hypocrite.

Maybe there should be no border controls at all. Anyone can enter
enter the UK or any other democratic country with no restrictions or
conditions. Would you vote for that?

>And they can pay taxes on that income, and
>help reduce the tax burden on fine, upstanding citizens like yourself. Who
>would not want that? Because I’m sure even your tax generosity has limits.

You are living in a dream world. How much demand do you think there is
for people with no skills and who don't speak English?

>> Nowhere is a perfectly safe place.
>
>Do you know what a “strawman” is?
>
>> The UK government's ONLY duty is to the UK citizens who they were
>> elected to represent and who pay their salaries.
>
>Note that it isn’t only citizens who pay taxes. Others are contributing to
>their salaries, too.

You won't get any argument from me about that. Bribery I call it. Some
politicians take kickbacks from special interest groups, including
people who wish to see the demise of the West. Flooding a country with
hostile illegal aliens is one of many ways that the destruction of the
Western alliance can be hastened. It would appear that you are in
fullsupport of this.

[Rich80105]

The police and the courts need to obey all relevant law, and that
covers what they do when illegal immigrants are discovered, what
processes decide on actions then taken, and whether those actions are
themselves legal and comply with commitments under international
agreements.

I doubt if the UK were sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda with the
aim of hastening he destruction of the Western alliance - their
conservative government just want the problem to go away; a bit like
when Australia sent illegal immigrants to places like Manus Island . .
.

[BR]

On Thu, 08 Feb 2024 21:43:01 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

What you are saying is that the police and the courts need to obey the
law, but illegal aliens don't.

International agreements should not take presidence over a country's
laws, otherwise one one parliament can bind another by signing up to
some international agreement that may not be in the country's best
interests.

>I doubt if the UK were sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda with the
>aim of hastening he destruction of the Western alliance

Go back and read again what was written. Slowly this time.

> - their
>conservative government just want the problem to go away; a bit like
>when Australia sent illegal immigrants to places like Manus Island . .

It's easy. Deport them back to where they came from. An example needs
to be made of these criminals. No country's taxpayers owe them
anything.