grey matter
Jamie Smith
members, and this is as good a place as any to go hunting for candidates....
I'd like to get some feedback from y'all about what you think Mensa is
about, and what you think about the people who do belong that actually tell
others about it. Are they boasting, genuinely interested in things or what?
Also, I'd like to get a picture of how y'all see us. Who can describe a
mensan, please lemme know if you think they've got bulgy eyes, stare at you
a lot, or look normal.
Lastly, if you joined an organisation like Mensa, what would you expect to
get out of it, what services, support or social activities would you expect.
And where should we advertise?
And for those who are interested, check out our home page at
www.mensa.org.nz and let us have some feedback about the site please. Every
fiftieth person on statistics is likely to have a suitable score for
joining. Of the people who sit the test, about half actually pass, so if
you've been seriously thinking about having a go, remember that the chances
of passing (I.Q. >140) are better if you sit the test than if you don't!
In anticipation, thanks for your feedback
Jamie Smith
Hugh Young
<jsm...@ihug.NOSPAM.co.nz> wrote:
>I'm recently appointed Promotions Officer for Mensa NZ. We're looking
for
>members, and this is is as good a place
iconz.general,nz.comp,nz.general,nz.rec,nz.soc,nz.soc.green,nz.soc.quee
r,nz.soc.religion
Um, these are as good places?
>as any to go hunting for candidates....
>
>I'd like to get some feedback from y'all about what you think Mensa is
>about, and what you think about the people who do belong that actually
tell
>others about it. Are they boasting, genuinely interested in things or
what?
>Also, I'd like to get a picture of how y'all see us. Who can describe
a
>mensan, please lemme know if you think they've got bulgy eyes, stare
at you
>a lot, or look normal.
Well you did ask. I belonged to Mensa a few years ago and I left
because they were so BORING. It's really sad. Too many of them think
that because they're good at solving puzzles they are intelligent,
knowledgable, or even wise. There's a strand of "unacknowledged
legislators of mankind" running through Mensa that is really tragic.
If you like solving puzzles, join Mensa.
>Every
>fiftieth person on statistics is likely to have a suitable score for
>joining.
I think you mean "on average". Trying to sound more accurate than you
are?
> Of the people who sit the test, about half actually pass, so if
>you've been seriously thinking about having a go, remember that the
chances
>of passing (I.Q. >140) are better if you sit the test than if you
don't!
Well of course they are, dummy. (God it feels good to call a Mensan
"dummy"!) Uncountably better, since the chance of anyone passing who
doesn't sit is zero. But if you succeed in encouraging people to sit on
that basis, you won't improve their chances of passing, you'll just
lower the pass-rate.
Anyway, people who sit have usually passed a little public pre-test, so
sitters have already been filtered, which probably accounts for much of
the high pass rate.
--
Hugh Young, Pukerua Bay, Nuclear-free Aotearoa / NEW ZEALAND
Only 29 months to the third millennium!
Jamie Smith
>>I'm recently appointed Promotions Officer for Mensa NZ. We're looking for
members, and this is is as good a place
>iconz.general,nz.comp,nz.general,nz.rec,nz.soc,nz.soc.green,nz.soc.quee
>r,nz.soc.religion
>Um, these are as good places?
Yes they are. Based on the content of your reply you may be unaware that
that IQ is not selctive of gender, sexual orientation, political outlook or
similar.
>>as any to go hunting for candidates....I'd like to get some feedback from
y'all about what you think Mensa is
>>about, and what you think about the people who do belong that actually
tell others about it. Are they boasting, genuinely interested in things or
what? Also, I'd like to get a picture of how y'all see us. Who can describe
>a mensan, please lemme know if you think they've got bulgy eyes, stare at
you a lot, or look normal.
>Well you did ask. I belonged to Mensa a few years ago and I left because
they were so BORING.
That's right it can be. Any group is a microcosm of the world. Tell me, did
you ever attend any of their activities, or get off your backside and try to
change things? Or did you sit there passively and wait for them to entertain
you without you informing them of what they could do to assist?
>It's really sad. Too many of them think that because they're good at
solving puzzles they are intelligent,
knowledgable, or even wise.
It's usually the other way round. Intelligence, knowledgability and wisdom
help you solve puzzles. That is, if you ever sat down to figure it out....
>There's a strand of "unacknowledged legislators of mankind" running through
Mensa that is really tragic.
Yep, we're nothing if not opinionated, like you.
>If you like solving puzzles, join Mensa. Every fiftieth person on
statistics is likely to have a suitable score for joining.I think you mean
"on average". Trying to sound more accurate than you are?
No. Just reverting back to my experience with statistics in a market
research company. Besides, I'd expect you to want to argue the meaning of
"average".
>> Of the people who sit the test, about half actually pass, so if you've
been seriously thinking about having a go, remember that the chances of
passing (I.Q. >140) are better if you sit the test than if you don't!
>Well of course they are, dummy. (God it feels good to call a Mensan
"dummy"!)
LOL. Hmmm. You said you belonged to us once. Is this hypocrisy and whining
indicative of your personality? I'd have to say that if you joined an
oranisation and left, complaining bitterly about it's value without putting
your hand up and contributing something, not just to Mensa but to help
others (including kids who may get ostracised because of their capabilities
to intimidate groups of "slower" thinkers), then we ain't the dummies,
dummy.
>Uncountably better, since the chance of anyone passing who doesn't sit is
zero.
That's the point. If you think you're clever enough to pass, there is a good
chance that you're right. And even with _your_ attitude, you'd be welcome in
the group.
>But if you succeed in encouraging people to sit on that basis, you won't
improve their chances of passing, you'll just lower the pass-rate.
Don't forget the other stuff about raising awareness, encouraging word of
mouth, etc etc. Or have _you_ got excited about statistics?
>Anyway, people who sit have usually passed a little public pre-test, so
sitters have already been filtered, which probably accounts for much of the
high pass rate.
Not entirely so. People apply without having done anything besides figure
out that they should apply. Some people are just curious about their score.
Others have done every puzzlebook in existance to improve their chances. But
remember, in NZ we use a test that is independent of printed words and
numbers, so if you can think, you stand abetter chance of passing
irrespective of native language or communication issues. That contributes to
our good pass rate too.
Anyway, thanx for the feedback. People can rest assured that all opinions
are welcome. That's part of the fun - debate, or are your views paramount?
Jamie Smith
>by a friend) - I got every single question wrong. :-)
I didn't think our Mensa test is available except in testing situations, so
perhaps your friends test wasn't legit. Our test doesn't use written words
or numbers, it depends on images and patterns which is more in keeping with
the brain - you are after all born with a brain that recognises patterns and
images. Language and counting comes later.
Anyway, I regularly get Mensa puzzles wrong, especially the ones dependent
on word interpretation or cryptograms. I did however score very well in the
NZ test but make plenty of errors in other countries' tests. Perhaps the
style of test you sat was not really capable of measuring your capacity. If
you had an I.Q. test organised by official channels, eg part of employment
application, etc then Mensa usually accredits on recognised I.Q. tests, you
aren't limited to sitting only one test once.
Best regards
Jamie Smith
Rembrandt Kuipers
Little Mac <m...@REMOVEtheoffice.co.nz>:
> It seems the only real qualification to belong to mensa is a huge
> estimation of one's own self-importance.
You mean that feeling self-important will get me a high IQ score?
I've been on the wrong track all these years then. :)
Rem
Max Burke
>DPF wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:05:46 +1200 in nz.comp Jamie Smith wrote: in
>> <6oc4i3$1bt$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>:
>>>CUT
>> Sorry, but no they are not (good places). That is like saying because
>> I am willing to sell my bicycle to males, females, heteros, gays,
>> greenies, computer nerds that I should cross-post my for sale ads to
>> every group I can think of. Using your logic one could cross-post it
>> to some 500 newsgroups.
>Are you sure he hasn't done that? His boring self-righteous spam has
>appeared in every newsgroup I seem to have looked at today.
>I have met a few people who claim to be in Mensa. Tbey have always gone
>on about how smart they are compared to dumbos like me. Just like this
>smartarse has. Makes me really want to join them.
>It seems the only real qualification to belong to mensa is a huge
>estimation of one's own self-importance.
The primary 'qualification' appears to be the ability to 'do' repeditive
logic puzzles better than anyone else.
If that is a requirement to prove your intelligence then I think I'll give
it (mensa) a miss....
--
mlvb...@deleteme.co.nz
When replying replace the obvious with IHUG
Visit my Photo Gallery at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~mlvburke/
or http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/6008/
Chris Martin
candidates....
"suckers", more like.
> I'd like to get some feedback from y'all about what you think Mensa is
> about, and what you think about the people who do belong that actually
tell
> others about it. Are they boasting, genuinely interested in things or
what?
Personally, I think that Mensa is an elitest organisation comprised
largely of people who like to flaunt their amazingly-high "IQ"s.
I suspect that many members of Mensa would certainly score less
than 140 if they were tested with a WAIS-R IQ test, since the sample tests
lack many tests of cognitive ability required to generate your overall IQ.
Yes, I took one of those sample Mensa tests and scored 100%. I also took a
paper called "general and experimental psychology" at university last
semester which included a topic "the use and abuse of IQ tests". My final
grade for that paper was 94.3%, if you're interested, which, funnily
enough, was in the top 2%...
> Also, I'd like to get a picture of how y'all see us. Who can describe a
> mensan, please lemme know if you think they've got bulgy eyes, stare at
you
> a lot, or look normal.
It's not the eyes that give them away, but the mouth - and what comes
out of it.
> Lastly, if you joined an organisation like Mensa, what would you expect
to
> get out of it, what services, support or social activities would you
expect.
How about a free t-shirt with "Ask me how big my IQ is!" written on
the back?
> And where should we advertise?
Preferably not in nz.comp, since it is a newsgroup I read regularly.
> And for those who are interested, check out our home page at
> www.mensa.org.nz and let us have some feedback about the site please.
Every
> fiftieth person on statistics is likely to have a suitable score for
> joining. Of the people who sit the test, about half actually pass, so if
> you've been seriously thinking about having a go, remember that the
chances
> of passing (I.Q. >140) are better if you sit the test than if you don't!
And what about the people who fail? "Oh sorry, but you're just too thick
to join Mensa. Come back when your cerebral cortex has a few more
wrinkles in it..."
> In anticipation, thanks for your feedback
Please understand, my comments aren't an attack on you personally, rather
the organisation you choose to affiliate yourself with.
Lyndon Watson
"Jamie Smith" <jsm...@ihug.NOSPAM.co.nz> writes:
> Hugh Young wrote:
>>iconz.general,nz.comp,nz.general,nz.rec,nz.soc,nz.soc.green,nz.soc.quee
>>r,nz.soc.religion
>>Um, these are as good places?
>
> Yes they are. Based on the content of your reply you may be unaware that
> that IQ is not selctive of gender, sexual orientation, political outlook or
> similar.
And, based on the content of his reply, "Jamie Smith" is unaware that
that trivial fact has no bearing whatever on the defined subject-matter
of newsgroups.
Just another self-serving spam....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyndon Watson deslash L.Watson/@/csc/./canterbury/./ac/./nz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
postmaster@localhost,abuse@localhost,ro...@mailloop.com
cat/dev/zero/tmp/...`@localhost,halt@localhost
Robert 'Stumpy' Marsh
<ma...@ambient.gen.nz> wrote:
>These threads are worth it even if they are off topic, it's always good to
>see that there isn't a single subset of people posting to Usenet who are
>immune to flame wars exploding within their ranks (no matter how 'high brow'
>you consider the group). Hell, humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare is just as
>bad.
>
>It just goes to show you, Usenet is the great leveller.
>
...and that raw intelligence is no match for experience.
Stumpy.
--
Robert 'Stumpy' Marsh
rma...@xtra.co.nz
<http://members.xoom.com/StumpyNZ/>
Wayne Harris
<35a9c00d...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
> Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:47:36 +1000,
> <Pine.GSO.3.96.980713143412.5555o-100000@mclaren>
> Josh Bailey <jba...@ascend.com.au>:
>
> An interesting case. You are obviously capable in what you do, and your
> communication skills are also good. :) I would hate to see someone with a
> high IQ consider themselves superior to you by virtue of their IQ alone.
(I
> guess that is an attitude I question under any circumstances though.)
>
> What I'm curious about is the nature of the questions in the IQ test you
> took. There are many different varieties of IQ tests, which do not
measure
> exactly the same skill.
---snip---
i found a sample test on the international web site - went through it out
of curiosity & got the following result:
Your score was 19 out of 30, which places you in the 73th percentile. If
you decide to take the Mensa test, you probably will not qualify for
membership.
I dont know how smart that supposedly ranks me, but i had to had a laugh
when i read the above lines, and tried to say aloud the word "73th".
heheh guess smart isnt always better huh..
On a more serious side - how do i sit one of these tests in NZ? if nothing
else they make you think better, which is always a good thing.
Cheers
Wayne
Avatar
On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 03:25:27 +1200, "Jamie Smith"
<jsm...@ihug.NOSPAM.co.nz> wrote in message
I suggest you move your NOSPAM to the END of your email address - after the
nz - as this will stop the spam even coming into the country.
[<6oakfs$poo$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>]:
>In anticipation, thanks for your feedback
Additionally, the newsgroup nz.general seems to be the correct ng to post
your message to - the large number of ng's your crossposted to might be
considered to be spam, as it is off-topic there. You might crosspost it to
nz.wanted though as well.
As regards your questions - perhaps you could explain a few notable things
that MENSA has done in the past, as I have not paid any attention in the
past.
Do not reply to this message in email - use the copy in nz.general. I think
this is a topic that might generate interesting conversation.
Avatar.
All my comments are "In my Opinion", unless otherwise stated, and are Copyright 1998.
Join the Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email - http://www.cauce.org
Avatar
On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:05:46 +1200, "Jamie Smith"
<jsm...@ihug.NOSPAM.co.nz> wrote in message
[<6oc4i3$1bt$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>]:
>>iconz.general,nz.comp,nz.general,nz.rec,nz.soc,nz.soc.green,nz.soc.quee
>>r,nz.soc.religion
>
>>Um, these are as good places?
>
>Yes they are. Based on the content of your reply you may be unaware that
>that IQ is not selctive of gender, sexual orientation, political outlook or
>similar.
General questions or enquiries belong in nz.general. Questions relating to
specific areas belong in that newsgroup to which they most closely
correspond.
The newsgroups are forums for discussion of particular themes, and seldom
does anyone use only one of them exclusively, as we all have a range of
interests.
I think you may have compartmentalized your view of the participants.
Avatar
On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:48:48 +1200, Little Mac <m...@REMOVEtheoffice.co.nz>
wrote in message [<35A9BB...@REMOVEtheoffice.co.nz>]:
>I have met a few people who claim to be in Mensa. Tbey have always gone
>on about how smart they are compared to dumbos like me. Just like this
>smartarse has. Makes me really want to join them.
I detected no such attitude from him, and I think your claims are baseless.
The only fault I could detect was the excessive crossposting - and
elementary mistake, possibly based on how 'real life' works (e.g. gay
people go to gay parties, therefore if you wish to talk to gay people, go
to a gay party). The way it works here is different - it is more like a
person subscribing to a range of magazines. You would put your advert in a
popular general magazine - like TV Guide - and not into a specialist one,
like Bits and Bytes.
Avatar
On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:38:34 +1200, "Matt Fox-Wilson" <ma...@ambient.gen.nz>
wrote in message [<6och5l$hfv$1...@news.iconz.co.nz>]:
>These threads are worth it even if they are off topic, it's always good to
>see that there isn't a single subset of people posting to Usenet who are
>immune to flame wars exploding within their ranks (no matter how 'high brow'
>you consider the group). Hell, humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare is just as
>bad.
>
>It just goes to show you, Usenet is the great leveller.
Not that I think anyone else here will appreciate your post, but i think it
is one of the better ones I have seen for some time.
Alan
<35a9c00d...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:47:36 +1000,
><Pine.GSO.3.96.980713143412.5555o-100000@mclaren>
>Josh Bailey <jba...@ascend.com.au>:
>What I'm curious about is the nature of the questions in the IQ test you
>took. There are many different varieties of IQ tests, which do not measure
>exactly the same skill.
>
>> questions are certainly over my head. But coming from a technical
>> background -
>> I find often tests are intended to find only what you *want*
>> to find... Whatever that is... :-)
>
>Sounds reasonable to me. Maths tests are intended to find out how good you
>are at maths, because that is what they want to find out. English tests are
>intended to find out how good your English is. Not surprisingly IQ tests
>are intended to find out your IQ. Like other skills there are of course
>many aspects to IQ, and one number is only going to tell you one aspect.
What is IQ?
I believe that the traditional IQ test only test in a certain type of IQ, Mr
Bailey and many others may be VERY intelligent, but in different way than
the IQ tests work.
It's the same with learning, some people learn by listening, some by
reading, some by doing, there is no one correct way. I don't think there is
one correct IQ test.
IQ tests by there common nature use reading and picture deciphering. Many
people have brilliant intelligence, but are not good at those particular
skills. Do we label then unintelligent?
PaB
---------------------------------
Add .nz to send mail to me
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Chris Martin" <arca...@i.do.not.like.green.eggs.and.spam.ihug.co.nz>:
>> I'm recently appointed Promotions Officer for Mensa NZ. We're looking for
>> members, and this is as good a place as any to go hunting for
>> candidates....
> "suckers", more like.
So you think that those who would like to associate with other intelligent
people are suckers? Why?
> Personally, I think that Mensa is an elitest organisation comprised
> largely of people who like to flaunt their amazingly-high "IQ"s.
Interesting. What basis do you form that opinion on?
> I suspect that many members of Mensa would certainly score less
> than 140 if they were tested with a WAIS-R IQ test, since the sample tests
> lack many tests of cognitive ability required to generate your overall IQ.
Has it occurred to you that the limitations of sample tests are often not
representative of the real thing? After all, if Mensa thought the sample
test was good enough to test your IQ, why would they need another one?
> It's not the eyes that give them away, but the mouth - and what comes
> out of it.
Are you saying that you can tell if somebody is a member of Mensa as soon
as they open their mouth? What changes about these people when they join?
> My final grade for that paper was 94.3%, if you're interested, which,
> funnily enough, was in the top 2%...
>> Lastly, if you joined an organisation like Mensa, what would you expect
>> to get out of it, what services, support or social activities would you
>> expect.
> How about a free t-shirt with "Ask me how big my IQ is!" written on
> the back?
Wouldn't it be simpler to make your own one with "I got 94.3% in a paper
called General and Experimental Psychology"? Perhaps on the front though,
so you can be sure everyone you talk to knows about it?
>> And where should we advertise?
> Preferably not in nz.comp, since it is a newsgroup I read regularly.
That does seem a rather inappropriate newsgroup for this topic. I've set
the follups to nz.general and nz.soc only.
> Please understand, my comments aren't an attack on you personally, rather
> the organisation you choose to affiliate yourself with.
I'm curious what you know about this organisation which is so bad.
I've read your post, but all I could find about Mensa was (uncomplimentary)
speculation about the membership. Nothing about the organisation itself.
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Max Burke" <mlvb...@deleteme.co.nz>:
> The primary 'qualification' appears to be the ability to 'do' repeditive
> logic puzzles better than anyone else.
You mean only one person is qualified to join? :)
Rem
Hugh Grierson
>What is IQ?
That which an IQ test measures.
-H
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Wayne Harris" <ch...@teamevans.co.nz.nospam>:
> I dont know how smart that supposedly ranks me, but i had to had a laugh
> when i read the above lines, and tried to say aloud the word "73th".
> heheh guess smart isnt always better huh..
LOL.
> On a more serious side - how do i sit one of these tests in NZ? if nothing
> else they make you think better, which is always a good thing.
You would have to contact Mensa NZ: me...@mensa.org.nz
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Paul Johnston" <Pa...@SoftwareStudio.co.nz>:
[About Mensa]
> Any relationship to scientology?
No. It would be hard to find two organisations that are more different. :)
Rem
[FollowUp-To: nz.general,nz.soc]
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Alan" <ema...@ihug.co>:
> What is IQ?
In practice it would boil down to the results of an IQ test. IQ tests are
designed to be give the best estimate of (an aspect of) your mental
facilities. The result is indicative of how someone's mental ability (in
the area being measured) compares to others.
> I believe that the traditional IQ test only test in a certain type of IQ, Mr
> Bailey and many others may be VERY intelligent, but in different way than
> the IQ tests work.
Sure. Anecdotally what is tested seems to be a useful and fairly reliable
indicator, though it should not be taken to be a summary of all the mental
attributes a person has.
> It's the same with learning, some people learn by listening, some by
> reading, some by doing, there is no one correct way. I don't think there is
> one correct IQ test.
You are correct. I've seen one IQ test which measures seven different
aspects, and that is just some of the things we can usefully measure. High
IQ societies in general allow you to become a member on the basis of a
sufficiently high score in any (recognised) IQ test, so you can pick an IQ
test which focuses on an area you are strong in, if you can find one.
> IQ tests by there common nature use reading and picture deciphering. Many
> people have brilliant intelligence, but are not good at those particular
> skills. Do we label then unintelligent?
I would hope not, although invariably some people do. If you got a low mark
in a maths many people also jump to that conclusion. While an IQ test is a
better indication of intelligence than a maths test, I would hesitate to
assume someone is unintelligent on that basis.
Rem
Mac Roin
Without doubt, ri-post of the week. Nice one Rem.
Mac Roin
--
Without music the world is deaf,
without flowers the world is blind.
Without laughter the world is a void
that can be filled by a bottle of wine. rh
Adele
Jamie Smith wrote in message <6oc4i3$1bt$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>
>Yes they are. Based on the content of your reply you may be unaware that
>that IQ is not selctive of gender, sexual orientation, political outlook or
>similar.
>
I believe that has been disputed quite successfully by reputable scholars.
Also, I believe, there is serious doubt as to whether the tests actually
measure intelligence at all. What is intelligence anyway? People aren't just
clever, they've got to be clever *at* something. Is being clever at solving
puzzles a good way to measure a person's cleverness or just a good way for
measuring their facility for puzzle solving?
Has anyone read a good article addressing these issues?
I plan never to take an IQ test . Solving puzzles bores me shitless.
Adele
Jamie Smith
Is that cos you get stuck? Or is it that the puzzles you have faced don't
challenge you enough? The fact that you've tried them indicates some sort of
curiosity or level of competitiveness.
And that's the point. Some people find puzzles to be stimulating cos some
people are curious, some like intellectual challenges. And some don't want
anything at all to do with puzzles at all. Kinda like some people like art,
some are apathetic about it yet still have an opinion.
I started this article to gauge the level of interest/knowledge about Mensa.
It's quite apparent that a lot of people are misinformed, a few people know
plenty about Mensa (though a lot _claim_ to have been members or have
phenomenal IQs), some people have selective memories and some are generous
in their recall, some are arrogant beyond belief and yet still others have a
high level of tolerance for other's opinions.
Any group, even Mensa, is a microcosm of the world, and all of the people
mentioned here can be found in this group. We encourage it.
The point is, any group is exactly what you make it or perceive it to be.
Any group usually involves interaction between members of some form. Where
you have two people or more you get a good chance at having different points
of view. Mensa encourages debate about intelligence and I think we've had
that. But not enough, yet.
This is all about contribution, and you can make it locally as an active
member, or globally as a financial member/supporter. It's not really enough
to merely lay claim to being a supergenius. Try substantiating it. Try
using your extra "horsepower" to useful purpose. You can't send it back.
Lots of people seem to want more of it. If you've been given it, it's kinda
like a special talent, when you're ready to shuffle off your mortal coil, Mr
Parrot, wouldn't it be good to look back at your contributions to, rather
than your withdrawals from, yours and other people's quality of life???
If you don't give a stuff that's OK. Give your opinion instead. But do it
from a platform of contribution, cos you claim to have this intelligence
thing, maybe, and others want it. Share it around!
Or am I being too soft on those who lay claim to genius? Realise you can be
a member of Mensa without having suitable income or employment or career
achievements. We have kids, unemployed, builders, retired people and pretty
well heaps of people from across all walks of life an occupations. Anyone
can join. Meet more people like yourself. Scary thought isn't it!
Peter Kerr
score, and the accompanying personality test usually had several positive
factors, but there was always one or more indicators requiring the hapless
victim to sign on for a course of Dianetics...
--
Peter Kerr bodger
School of Music chandler
University of Auckland NZ neo-Luddite
Giles Boutel
Jamie Smith <jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote in article
<6oeutb$n89$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
> Or am I being too soft on those who lay claim to genius? Realise you can
be
> a member of Mensa without having suitable income or employment or career
> achievements. We have kids, unemployed, builders, retired people and
pretty
> well heaps of people from across all walks of life an occupations. Anyone
> can join. Meet more people like yourself. Scary thought isn't it!
>
I took the test earlier this year after a discussion on IQ on this
newsgroup (as I've mentioned before). I got my joining papers in the mail
and told my folks that I'd made the grade. My mother's response was 'what a
clever lad'. My father's was 'Why? That's for people who feel insecure
about their intelligence'. I've yet to send the forms in. Still thinking
about it.
The perception of Mensa as a group of elitist wankers is held by many
people, as the discussion here has shown. Joining is seen as virtually
admitting there's something wrong with you (you're arrogant, you're a geek,
you're in need of friends, etc). I recently met someone who has joined who
claims the local group is mostly middle aged, and the idea of paying 40
bucks a year to hang out with people of my parent's generation is less than
attractive.
Instead of getting posters to trot out the same old hackneyed cliches
describing their (mis)conceptions, and responding with generalised
statements, why don't you get specific? What's Mensa done for you
personally? I can go down to the social welfare office and see kids,
unemployed, builders, retired people and pretty well heaps of people from
across all walks of life an (sic) occupations. You need to go a bit deeper,
make it a bit more real, if you're keen for new recruits.
-Giles
Gaven Miller
> I plan never to take an IQ test . Solving puzzles bores me shitless.
I took an IQ test once.
Maybe one day I'll take it back.
--
All email sent to my inca address will fail, however I can now be
contacted via an intermediary : gem at tos pl net. I would like to
apologise to the genuine respondents that this may inconvenience.
John Mackie
Giles Boutel wrote in message
<01bdaf7b$b7109f40$6733...@wc034319.wcc.govt.nz>...
>(newsgroup list trimmed)
>
>Jamie Smith <jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote in article
><6oeutb$n89$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
Giles wrote
>I took the test earlier this year after a discussion on IQ on this
>newsgroup (as I've mentioned before). I got my joining papers in the mail
>and told my folks that I'd made the grade. My mother's response was 'what a
>clever lad'. My father's was 'Why? That's for people who feel insecure
>about their intelligence'. I've yet to send the forms in. Still thinking
>about it.
On you father's reasoning does that mean all the women who join the CWI do
so because they feel insecure about their cooking and household skills?
Does that mean all those folk who join hiking groups do so because they are
insecure about their walking ability? I think not!
Ruth Mackie
ou004158
"Jamie Smith" <jsm...@ihug.NOSPAM.co.nz> writes:
> I didn't think our Mensa test is available except in testing situations, so
> perhaps your friends test wasn't legit. Our test doesn't use written words
> or numbers, it depends on images and patterns which is more in keeping with
> the brain - you are after all born with a brain that recognises patterns and
> images. Language and counting comes later.
>
> Anyway, I regularly get Mensa puzzles wrong, especially the ones dependent
> on word interpretation or cryptograms. I did however score very well in the
> NZ test but make plenty of errors in other countries' tests. Perhaps the
> style of test you sat was not really capable of measuring your capacity. If
> you had an I.Q. test organised by official channels, eg part of employment
> application, etc then Mensa usually accredits on recognised I.Q. tests, you
> aren't limited to sitting only one test once.
>
> Best regards
>
> Jamie Smith
>
Hmmm... correct me if I am wrong, but pattern recognition tests are
designed to eliminate language barriers and region/ethnic specific
knowledge from biasing results, correct? They are designed to test your
ability to recognise patterns or trends, this being the basic principal
behind our thinking?
Mensa tests are taken under supervision (in my case in a group with a
Justice of the Peace supervising). We took the test because a friend
was wanting to start (again?) the Dunedin chapter... anyway I passed
and since not much actually happened I ended up not worrying too much
about Mensa. Does Mensa actually do anything interesting elsewhere in
NZ?
Mark
Rachel
in article
> I suspect that many members of Mensa would certainly score less
> than 140 if they were tested with a WAIS-R IQ test, since the sample
tests
> lack many tests of cognitive ability required to generate your overall
IQ.
> Yes, I took one of those sample Mensa tests and scored 100%. I also took
a
> paper called "general and experimental psychology" at university last
> semester which included a topic "the use and abuse of IQ tests". My final
> grade for that paper was 94.3%, if you're interested, which, funnily
> enough, was in the top 2%...
>
> Personally, I think that Mensa is an elitest organisation comprised
> largely of people who like to flaunt their amazingly-high "IQ"s.
which is, of course, exactly what you just did!
*guffaw*
>
> And what about the people who fail? "Oh sorry, but you're just too thick
> to join Mensa. Come back when your cerebral cortex has a few more
> wrinkles in it..."
Perhaps someone should have them up for discrimination ... ?
--
Rachel
(who incidentally scored enough with a *lot* of 'eeny-meeny-miney-mo' type
guesswork in the 10 test questions to make it feasible to sit the full
Mensa application IQ test)
________________
priebee_r at wcc blip govt blip nz
Robert 'Stumpy' Marsh
<phon...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>On you father's reasoning does that mean all the women who join the CWI do
>so because they feel insecure about their cooking and household skills?
>Does that mean all those folk who join hiking groups do so because they are
>insecure about their walking ability? I think not!
Quite right, but on the other hand the entry criteria for those groups
aren't half as stringent as Mensa's, so he could be right... or wrong.
david....@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
Rembrandt Kuipers <r...@NOJUNK.rembrandt.gen.nz> (remove "NOJUNK." from
address) wrote:
>
> I've read your post, but all I could find about Mensa was (uncomplimentary)
> speculation about the membership. Nothing about the organisation itself.
>
tests seriously?
David Bisman
Dunedin
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Jamie Smith
new people, hold parties, go to restaurants etc. Puzzles happen to be only
one small thing that some of us do for distraction or contests. Kinda like a
sport, you know, mental gymnastics.
--
Jamie Smith
NZ Business Software Ph/Fax 0-9-478-8622
For Business Planning and Marketing Software
Promotions Officer for Mensa NZ for 1998/99
Alternative email promo...@mensa.org.nz
Or visit http://www.mensa.org.nz
david....@stonebow.otago.ac.nz wrote in message
<6oka31$k83$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
tricia
<an...@ambient.gen.nz.remove> wrote:
>
>Jamie Smith wrote in message <6okpdd$h39$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>>We don't. We use it for social and entertainment purposes, you know, meet
>>new people, hold parties, go to restaurants
>
>... go out and paint the town beige. That kinda thing.
>
>
>I can just see it now... the hot press of pocket-protectors in a room full
>of people standing too close to me.
>
>I know, I know. I'm generalizing. But any organisation whose name is based
>on a pun isn't likely to get my support.
>
>Aside from all the wild times it seems the members are always having...
>what was it you said Mensa had done that was notable? I mean in terms of
>world changing stuff. If you're got that resource of 140+ average IQ per
>member, surely you've managed to move mountains by will-power alone!
I am inclined to agree, I think a whole lot is made of this thing we
call intelligence when really we are talking about intellect.
Intelligence to ME is the ability to see someone elses argument, to
attempt to understand where they are coming from, its knowing when to
give up on an argument, it is the ability to function in the everyday
world, it is being able to see yourself complete with faults, it is to
give other ppl room to be who they are, it is the ability to reason,
it is a whole lot of things.
As far as I can see being a member of mensa or having a high intellect
does not mean (necessarily) that you are able to do these things.
However the thread had caused me much merriment with the ppl who have
rushed to admit that they are in mensa or at least should be. *big
piss taking grin*
The deception of oneself is truly an art
Tricia
-----
ICQ 1378028
Giles Boutel
Gaven Miller <gmi...@inca.co.nz> wrote in article
<6of4l1$sbp$1...@newshost.comnet.co.nz>...
> Adele (ade...@clear.net.nz) wrote in nz.general:
> > I plan never to take an IQ test . Solving puzzles bores me shitless.
>
> I took an IQ test once.
>
> Maybe one day I'll take it back.
>
Shocking display of the intellectual property theft!
-Giles
Giles Boutel
Robert 'Stumpy' Marsh <rma...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in article
<35b12529...@news.ihug.co.nz>...
> In message <6ogq9p$1up$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>, "John Mackie"
> <phon...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >On you father's reasoning does that mean all the women who join the CWI
do
> >so because they feel insecure about their cooking and household skills?
> >Does that mean all those folk who join hiking groups do so because they
are
> >insecure about their walking ability? I think not!
>
> Quite right, but on the other hand the entry criteria for those groups
> aren't half as stringent as Mensa's, so he could be right... or wrong.
>
Yeah, that argument occurred to me as well, though I think the example I
used was 'do people try out for the All-blacks because they're insecure
about their game'. Far more stringent entry criteria - but nobody calls
them elitest wankers (well, not to their face ;-)
-Giles
Andy Bearsley
Jamie Smith wrote in message <6okpdd$h39$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>We don't. We use it for social and entertainment purposes, you know, meet
>new people, hold parties, go to restaurants
... go out and paint the town beige. That kinda thing.
I can just see it now... the hot press of pocket-protectors in a room full
of people standing too close to me.
I know, I know. I'm generalizing. But any organisation whose name is based
on a pun isn't likely to get my support.
Aside from all the wild times it seems the members are always having...
what was it you said Mensa had done that was notable? I mean in terms of
world changing stuff. If you're got that resource of 140+ average IQ per
member, surely you've managed to move mountains by will-power alone!
Andy B.
Thrisnz
Rachel <Rac...@sod-off.nz.nospam> wrote in message
01bdaf98$c8608360$d632...@35399.wcc.govt.nz...
--snip---snip---
>> Yes, I took one of those sample Mensa tests and scored 100%. I also took
>a
>> paper called "general and experimental psychology" at university last
>> semester which included a topic "the use and abuse of IQ tests". My final
>> grade for that paper was 94.3%, if you're interested, which, funnily
>> enough, was in the top 2%...
>
>>
>> Personally, I think that Mensa is an elitest organisation comprised
>> largely of people who like to flaunt their amazingly-high "IQ"s.
>
>
>which is, of course, exactly what you just did!
>
>*guffaw*
KICKASS BABY!!!!!
Giles Boutel
tricia <rab...@exxxtra.co.nz> wrote in article
<35ae74b...@news.wgtn.ihug.co.nz>...
> I am inclined to agree, I think a whole lot is made of this thing we
> call intelligence when really we are talking about intellect.
>
> Intelligence to ME is the ability to see someone elses argument, to
> attempt to understand where they are coming from, its knowing when to
> give up on an argument, it is the ability to function in the everyday
> world, it is being able to see yourself complete with faults, it is to
> give other ppl room to be who they are, it is the ability to reason,
> it is a whole lot of things.
Isn't that largely (though not entirely) what they call EQ these days?
Empathy, sociability, mental equilibrium and that kind of thing? How
namby-pamby! Surely you must realise that it can't be as important as
proving to the world what a whopping great tower of iron IQ you have!
> However the thread had caused me much merriment with the ppl who have
> rushed to admit that they are in mensa or at least should be. *big
> piss taking grin*
>
> The deception of oneself is truly an art
Are you talking 'bout me in that indirect yet slanderous manner? My
goodness, veritably gored through the reputation by a *bptg* - I've come
over all defensive! I must redeem myself and unbesmirch my honour!
Tricia, I bet you fifty bucks I'm not deceiving myself. You're in
Wellington, are you not? I'll show you the results letter and the (as yet
unfilled) application form at any mutually convenient time and place (don't
forget to bring your wallet). I'll even let you quote it when you post your
retraction.
(Not that I care particularly - but hey, fifty bucks is fifty bucks, and my
ever-hungry grey matter needs more expensive information to satiate its
hideous data appetites lest it run amock amongst the mundanes like a wolf
amongst little sheepies and devour all in a fervour of gluttonous
info-absorption, covering the world in its foul excrecence of run-on
sentences and other intellectual effluvia)
Yours in anticipation,
-Giles
Rembrandt Kuipers
david....@stonebow.otago.ac.nz:
>> I've read your post, but all I could find about Mensa was (uncomplimentary)
>> speculation about the membership. Nothing about the organisation itself.
> My question would be just how intelligent can these people be if they take IQ
> tests seriously?
I can't see any reason why taking IQ tests seriously and being phenomenally
intelligent would be mutually exclusive. Can you?
Although I must admit I regard the question as being rather academic, as
being a member of Mensa does not require you to take them seriously. :)
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Andy Bearsley" <an...@ambient.gen.nz.remove>:
> But any organisation whose name is based on a pun isn't likely to get my
> support.
What pun is Mensa's name based on? This is news to me. :) (I must say I
find that a strange basis for discrimination BTW.)
> If you're got that resource of 140+ average IQ per member, surely you've
> managed to move mountains by will-power alone!
Why would that follow?
Rem
Brent Thomson
Rembrandt Kuipers wrote in message
<35ae973a...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>What pun is Mensa's name based on? This is news to me. :) (I must say I
>find that a strange basis for discrimination BTW.)
>
I'm not sure what the pun is, but I'm familiar with the very cerebral joke -
a cartoon of a man with a noose around his neck about to step off a chair,
with the caption "he was turned down from mensa".
If you're not currently rolling around laughing, check the end of this post
for the punch-line loved by classicists.
I have no problem with nerds getting together to play word games - heck,
nerds are people, too. I have a problem with processes for testing IQ that
are based on your subscription to Readers Digest (the weird word column) or
your general knowledge of the only country in the world, the USA (who cares
what the capital of Ohio is, anyway?). Statistically there's a chance I'd do
better on some IQ tests than the average panelbeater, but panelbeaters come
in a range of abilities, too. Who the f**k cares if someone is a testable
genius if they are nothing short of brilliant in ding removal?
BTW, for the non-classically inclined, "mensa" is Latin for "table" - if you
still can't work out the pun, get help.
Cheers,
Brent
Andy Bearsley
>"Andy Bearsley" <an...@ambient.gen.nz.remove>:
>> But any organisation whose name is based on a pun isn't likely to get my
>> support.
>
>find that a strange basis for discrimination BTW.)
It's cynicism. Heck, I used to work for Compaq, and their name is even
worse. Not so much a pun as a play on words.
>> If you're got that resource of 140+ average IQ per member, surely you've
>> managed to move mountains by will-power alone!
>
>Why would that follow?
It's cynicism. Forget it. I was making reference to an article I read in
Readers Digest when I was about 13 about Mensa.
Andy B.
Colin Francis
>
>It's cynicism. Forget it. I was making reference to an article I read in
>Readers Digest when I was about 13 about Mensa.
just as a matter of interest i wonder if MENSa is sexist or is there
a WOMENSa . ?( with lower IQ entry for Blondes ):}
**My first sexual experience was frightening
It was dark and i was alone **
Col..
Chris Martin
> >
> >*guffaw*
>
>
> KICKASS BABY!!!!!
Bzzzzt, wrong. Not once did I even mention my IQ. Infact I have never taken
a proper IQ test and so couldn't flaunt it even if I wanted to. I put in
that mention of a grade I got so whatever-his-name-was couldn't claim that
I was against Mensa because I was "too dumb to join".
claire hurman
Rembrandt Kuipers wrote:
> Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:48:48 +1200, <35A9BB...@REMOVEtheoffice.co.nz>
> Little Mac <m...@REMOVEtheoffice.co.nz>:
> > It seems the only real qualification to belong to mensa is a huge
> > estimation of one's own self-importance.
>
> You mean that feeling self-important will get me a high IQ score?
>
> I've been on the wrong track all these years then. :)
>
> Rem
hehe. Actually there does seem to be a link between high academic
self-concept and achievement. I just skimmed the subject at Teachers'
College. Incredibly boring fact I know, but relevant nontheless.
8)
claire
--
DO NOT HIT REPLY **note new email address**
Claire can be emailed claire dot h at iname dot com
And now a little something for the spambots:
abuse@[127.0.0.1]
postmaster@[127.0.0.1]
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Moz (Chris Moseley)
tricia <rab...@exxxtra.co.nz> wrote
> I am inclined to agree, I think a whole lot is made of this thing we
> call intelligence when really we are talking about intellect.
Mensa is all about people who are good at IQ tests, I thought. Any
connection between that ability and intelligence is largely
circumstantial AFAIK. For starters, you can get better at the tests
by practicing, which kind of nullifies any attempt to claim that
they measure any inherent trait.
> However the thread had caused me much merriment with the ppl who have
> rushed to admit that they are in mensa or at least should be. *big
> piss taking grin*
I should be, definitely. As an incentive to the rest to get out and grab
a life before it's too late. I once sat most of an IQ test. But then I
once sat grade one music theory and I don't expect you to hold that
against me either.
> The deception of oneself is truly an art
... which most people practice ardently.
Moz
Keith Davidson
Giles Boutel wrote:
> Gaven Miller <gmi...@inca.co.nz> wrote in article
> <6of4l1$sbp$1...@newshost.comnet.co.nz>...
> > Adele (ade...@clear.net.nz) wrote in nz.general:
> >
> > I took an IQ test once.
> >
> > Maybe one day I'll take it back.
> >
> Shocking display of the intellectual property theft!
lol - ok I Quit, I Quit !!
Keith Davidson
Andy Bearsley
Moz (Chris Moseley) wrote in message <01bdb150$fc587ec0$LocalHost@moz>...
>
>
>tricia <rab...@exxxtra.co.nz> wrote
>> I am inclined to agree, I think a whole lot is made of this thing we
>> call intelligence when really we are talking about intellect.
>
>Mensa is all about people who are good at IQ tests, I thought. Any
>connection between that ability and intelligence is largely
>circumstantial AFAIK. For starters, you can get better at the tests
>by practicing, which kind of nullifies any attempt to claim that
>they measure any inherent trait.
That reminds me (again) of a book you can buy called 'How to raise your IQ
by 10 points" (or something like that).
A friend told me that if you learn the numerical equivalents of letters of
the alphabet by heart you'll do better in certain IC tests. (To which I
answered "Why not just write them at the top of the page with, say, every
fifth letter numbered or something...")
If you become aware of certian 'types' of puzzles existing, you're more
likely to do well when you encounter them again than you would the first
time. My opinion based on experience.
Andy B.
Tony Williams
<URL:mailto:d...@you.spammed.me.com> wrote:
>
> hehe. Actually there does seem to be a link between high academic
> self-concept and achievement. I just skimmed the subject at Teachers'
> College. Incredibly boring fact I know, but relevant nontheless.
>
"Every day, in every way, I get better and better".
The key phrase in a famous old book of self-improvement, to be
used as a permanent mantra.
--
Tony Williams.
Kerry
<to...@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> "Every day, in every way, I get better and better".
>
> The key phrase in a famous old book of self-improvement, to be
> used as a permanent mantra.
Tisn't
It's a giveaway of your misspent youth watching Some Mothers Do 'Ave
'Em
K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
-Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tony Williams
<URL:mailto:kerryd.remo...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:05:47 +0100, Tony Williams
> <to...@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > "Every day, in every way, I get better and better".
> >
> > The key phrase in a famous old book of self-improvement, to be
> > used as a permanent mantra.
>
> Tisn't
>
> It's a giveaway of your misspent youth watching Some Mothers Do 'Ave
> 'Em
'Twas so, but I can't remember the book. I do remember SMDAE though,
thought it was funny then, makes me cringe to see it now.
--
Tony Williams.
Dave Joll
>just as a matter of interest i wonder if MENSa is sexist or is there
>a WOMENSa . ?( with lower IQ entry for Blondes ):}
You haven't heard the hilarious (and apparently true - although I may
be wrong) story about the overly PC school board in England which
came up with "mens and womens sana in corpore sano"?
Jamie Smith
Good one. Nice to know there are people out there who aspire to mediocrity.
>
>
>I can just see it now... the hot press of pocket-protectors in a room full
>of people standing too close to me.
Been playing your Police records again?
>
>I know, I know. I'm generalizing. But any organisation whose name is
based
>on a pun isn't likely to get my support.
Latin isn't known for it's bility to generate puns. you do know what Latin
and a table is I presume?
>
>Aside from all the wild times it seems the members are always having...
>what was it you said Mensa had done that was notable? I mean in terms of
>world changing stuff. If you're got that resource of 140+ average IQ per
>member, surely you've managed to move mountains by will-power alone!
Will power doesn't seem to go hand in hand with high IQ. Probably the
reverse , if you aren't able to see a solution, perseverance probably
prevails.
>
>Andy B.
>
>
>
Andy Bearsley
Jamie Smith wrote in message <6ooivp$5o7$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>Latin isn't known for it's bility to generate puns. you do know what Latin
>and a table is I presume?
The saving grace is that I know mensans who aren't as socially inept as your
postings imply you to be.
If you want to recruit people, you can do better than ridiculing others in
public.
>>Aside from all the wild times it seems the members are always having...
>>what was it you said Mensa had done that was notable? I mean in terms of
>>world changing stuff. If you're got that resource of 140+ average IQ per
>>member, surely you've managed to move mountains by will-power alone!
>
>Will power doesn't seem to go hand in hand with high IQ. Probably the
>reverse , if you aren't able to see a solution, perseverance probably
>prevails.
I agree totally, and 100%. Now, back to the question... Aside from
being a social club, has Mensa achieved anything newsworthy?
Andy B.
Brian Logan
<an...@ambient.gen.nz.remove> etched into the electrons in message
<6oou6f$nhc$1...@news.iconz.co.nz>:
>
>Jamie Smith wrote in message <6ooivp$5o7$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>
>>Latin isn't known for it's bility to generate puns. you do know what Latin
>>and a table is I presume?
>
>
>The saving grace is that I know mensans who aren't as socially inept as your
>postings imply you to be.
>
>If you want to recruit people, you can do better than ridiculing others in
>public.
rofl
Maybe that's why they need to recruit more people. The ones there now
either know their puns or have tired of being ridiculed.
Maybe they need a nz.mensa group to post to so we can see the benefits
of practising their IQ tests to pass and join. They could have someone
wittily recount the enjoyable events of their social gatherings and
make us feel deprived from having missed out
(How many smilies should I have included?)
Brian
-- Brian Logan ICQ#4931597
mailto:ul...@bigfoot.com
Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let her sleep.
Jamie Smith
>>
>>>Latin isn't known for it's bility to generate puns. you do know what
Latin
>>>and a table is I presume?
>>
>>
>>The saving grace is that I know mensans who aren't as socially inept as
your
>>postings imply you to be.
>>
>>If you want to recruit people, you can do better than ridiculing others
in
>>public.
>
>rofl
>Maybe that's why they need to recruit more people. The ones there now
>either know their puns or have tired of being ridiculed.
>
>Maybe they need a nz.mensa group to post to so we can see the benefits
>of practising their IQ tests to pass and join.
if we're already in the organisation, why would we need to practise?
>They could have someone wittily recount the enjoyable events of their
social gatherings and
>make us feel deprived from having missed out
Yeah that would work. We talk about the same things most other people do. So
we'd obviously need to spice it up and entertain you so you get the pleasure
of saying "I told you so"
>(How many smilies should I have included?)
Seems like we should be sending them to you, you claim to be deprived.
>Brian
>
Nah, we can use rec.org.mensa, uk.org.mensa, mensa.au.announce,
mensa.au.events, mensa.talk.misc,mensa.uk.announce, mensa.uk.events etc etc.
Only problem is it often gets filled up with postings from non-member
luddites.
Cheers, and send email if you want to get a copy of every thing we spoke
about at our upcoming AGM (stands for anti-grey matter)
Jamie Smith
--
Jamie Smith
NZ Business Software Ph/Fax 0-9-478-8622
For Business Planning and Marketing Software
Promotions Officer for Mensa NZ for 1998/99
Alternative email promo...@mensa.org.nz
Or visit http://www.mensa.org.nz
Giles Boutel wrote in message
<01bdb10c$27775da0$6733...@wc034319.wcc.govt.nz>...
>
>
>Gaven Miller <gmi...@inca.co.nz> wrote in article
><6of4l1$sbp$1...@newshost.comnet.co.nz>...
>> Adele (ade...@clear.net.nz) wrote in nz.general:
>> > I plan never to take an IQ test . Solving puzzles bores me shitless.
>>
>> I took an IQ test once.
>>
>> Maybe one day I'll take it back.
>>
Assuming of course they actually want it.....
Jamie Smith
>The saving grace is that I know mensans who aren't as socially inept as
your
>postings imply you to be.
I never claim to be perfect. I'm using these newsgroups to stimulate
discussion and get feedback. Thanx for yours.
>If you want to recruit people, you can do better than ridiculing others in
>public.
>
>
>>>Aside from all the wild times it seems the members are always having...
>>>what was it you said Mensa had done that was notable?
Whoever said we had to do notable things?
We encourage the use of intelligence, support gifted children and have a
good time socially.
>>>I mean in terms of
>>>world changing stuff. If you're got that resource of 140+ average IQ per
>>>member, surely you've managed to move mountains by will-power alone!
>>
>>Will power doesn't seem to go hand in hand with high IQ. Probably the
>>reverse , if you aren't able to see a solution, perseverance probably
>>prevails.
>
>
>I agree totally, and 100%. Now, back to the question... Aside from
>being a social club, has Mensa achieved anything newsworthy?
>
>Andy B.
>
>
Newsworthy? Most of our members keep a low public profile and our
organisation doesn't seek scandal. If we've done anything newsworthy, it's
usually by way of encouraging others to succeed with their intellectual
capabilities, and it's most likely that their achievements are what you read
about, not their membership.
A good analogy is that we're like a sports club, a business network or any
other microcosm of the world.
Moz (Chris Moseley)
Brian Logan <ul...@bigfoot.com> wrote in
> Maybe they need a nz.mensa group to post to so we can see the benefits
> of practising their IQ tests to pass and join. They could have someone
> wittily recount the enjoyable events of their social gatherings and
> make us feel deprived from having missed out
>
> (How many smilies should I have included?)
One per IQ point was fine :-)
Moz
Andy Bearsley
Jamie Smith wrote in message <6opo5a$f6n$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>I never claim to be perfect. I'm using these newsgroups to stimulate
>discussion and get feedback. Thanx for yours.
Okay, good. You're getting better. You survived that one without lashing
out.
>>>>what was it you said Mensa had done that was notable?
>
>Whoever said we had to do notable things?
>We encourage the use of intelligence, support gifted children and have a
>good time socially.
Hang on... back up just a second. You tossed something notable in there
but passed it off lightly.
Supporting gifted children is a Good Thing. VERY noteworthy. I forgot
about that bit. Being a gifted child is really a bums rush without proper
care and feeding.
>Newsworthy? Most of our members keep a low public profile and our
>organisation doesn't seek scandal. If we've done anything newsworthy, it's
>usually by way of encouraging others to succeed with their intellectual
>capabilities, and it's most likely that their achievements are what you
read
>about, not their membership.
>
>A good analogy is that we're like a sports club, a business network or any
>other microcosm of the world.
Okay, now that wasn't so hard to say, was it. That came across as less
arrogant, and much more user-friendly. See? If you dont talk down to me,
and if you be honest rather than promotional, you actually sound like a
human being.
Andy B.
Jamie Smith
>out.
I'm not a saint. I like to finish what I started. But how come it seems to
be mostly non-Mensans (albeit those who claim they could belong) who seem to
have the attitude problem, and "lash out" at high-handed or
"imperialistic/arrogant" communication.
Methinks some non-members are accusing others of doing what they do
themselves. Wonder what the shrinks would make of that behaviour???.
>>Newsworthy? Most of our members keep a low public profile and our
>>organisation doesn't seek scandal. If we've done anything newsworthy, it's
>>usually by way of encouraging others to succeed with their intellectual
>>capabilities, and it's most likely that their achievements are what you
>read
>>about, not their membership.
>>
>>A good analogy is that we're like a sports club, a business network or any
>>other microcosm of the world.
>
>
>Okay, now that wasn't so hard to say, was it. That came across as less
>arrogant, and much more user-friendly. See? If you dont talk down to me,
>and if you be honest rather than promotional, you actually sound like a
>human being.
>
At the risk of ruining a good thing, who's being arrogant and talking down
now?
Jamie Smith
>... go out and paint the town beige. That kinda thing.
Good one. Nice to know there are people out there who aspire to mediocrity.
>
>
>I can just see it now... the hot press of pocket-protectors in a room full
>of people standing too close to me.
Been playing your Police records again?
>
>I know, I know. I'm generalizing. But any organisation whose name is
based
>on a pun isn't likely to get my support.
Latin isn't known for it's bility to generate puns. you do know what Latin
and a table is I presume?
>
>Aside from all the wild times it seems the members are always having...
>what was it you said Mensa had done that was notable? I mean in terms of
>world changing stuff. If you're got that resource of 140+ average IQ per
>member, surely you've managed to move mountains by will-power alone!
Will power doesn't seem to go hand in hand with high IQ. Probably the
reverse , if you aren't able to see a solution, perseverance probably
prevails.
>
>Andy B.
>
>
>
tricia
wrote:
>
>
>tricia <rab...@exxxtra.co.nz> wrote in article
><35ae74b...@news.wgtn.ihug.co.nz>...
>> I am inclined to agree, I think a whole lot is made of this thing we
>> call intelligence when really we are talking about intellect.
>>
>> Intelligence to ME is the ability to see someone elses argument, to
>> attempt to understand where they are coming from, its knowing when to
>> give up on an argument, it is the ability to function in the everyday
>> world, it is being able to see yourself complete with faults, it is to
>> give other ppl room to be who they are, it is the ability to reason,
>> it is a whole lot of things.
>
>Isn't that largely (though not entirely) what they call EQ these days?
>Empathy, sociability, mental equilibrium and that kind of thing? How
>namby-pamby! Surely you must realise that it can't be as important as
>proving to the world what a whopping great tower of iron IQ you have!
Well no I hadn't but no doubt you are about to enlighten me !
>
>> However the thread had caused me much merriment with the ppl who have
>> rushed to admit that they are in mensa or at least should be. *big
>> piss taking grin*
>>
>> The deception of oneself is truly an art
>
>Are you talking 'bout me in that indirect yet slanderous manner? My
>goodness, veritably gored through the reputation by a *bptg* - I've come
>over all defensive! I must redeem myself and unbesmirch my honour!
Can one unbesmirch?
>
>Tricia, I bet you fifty bucks I'm not deceiving myself. You're in
>Wellington, are you not? I'll show you the results letter and the (as yet
>unfilled) application form at any mutually convenient time and place (don't
>forget to bring your wallet). I'll even let you quote it when you post your
>retraction.
>
I am on to you, this is a cunning way to get into my house!!
>(Not that I care particularly - but hey, fifty bucks is fifty bucks, and my
>ever-hungry grey matter needs more expensive information to satiate its
>hideous data appetites lest it run amock amongst the mundanes like a wolf
>amongst little sheepies and devour all in a fervour of gluttonous
>info-absorption, covering the world in its foul excrecence of run-on
>sentences and other intellectual effluvia)
I am a vegetarian, or at least I should be!
>
>Yours in anticipation,
and tongue hanging out?
Tricia
>
>-Giles
-----
ICQ 1378028
Kerry
<jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote:
>>... go out and paint the town beige. That kinda thing.
>
>Good one. Nice to know there are people out there who aspire to mediocrity.
Ahhhh....ain'tit always the way.
Mensaen posts 'enquiring' message asking others their views on the
organisation.
Mensaen uses the opportunity to drop their IQ <although never
accomplishments> into the discussion, of course others are inexorably
drawn to drop in their own.
Thread degrades into a tit-for-tat on the various sad gits of high
intelligence who do or do not belong to Mensa
Mensaen takes it upon himself <usually> to tell us that we, the rest
of the world aspire to mediocrity.
Classic!
Kerry
<jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote:
>Nah, we can use rec.org.mensa, uk.org.mensa, mensa.au.announce,
>mensa.au.events, mensa.talk.misc,mensa.uk.announce, mensa.uk.events etc etc.
party party
>
>Only problem is it often gets filled up with postings from non-member
>luddites.
Ahh this is the other classic ....'luddites'
Kerry
<jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote:
>>Okay, good. You're getting better. You survived that one without lashing
>>out.
>
>
>I'm not a saint. I like to finish what I started. But how come it seems to
>be mostly non-Mensans (albeit those who claim they could belong) who seem to
>have the attitude problem, and "lash out" at high-handed or
>"imperialistic/arrogant" communication.
Oh and the next ploy is to accuse those who mock of being jealous that
they can't belong to the lofty organisation of Mensa.
Wait for it.....
>
>Methinks some non-members are accusing others of doing what they do
>themselves. Wonder what the shrinks would make of that behaviour???.
and having a psychological illness...
Andy Bearsley
Jamie Smith wrote in message <6opvvl$bnc$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>At the risk of ruining a good thing, who's being arrogant and talking down
>now?
Oh well. It was good while it lasted.
Andy B.
Jamie Smith
>they can't belong to the lofty organisation of Mensa.
>Wait for it.....
>and having a psychological illness...
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
>-Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your signature, though funny, is indicative of a superior attitude. We
belong to Mensa for social and community reasons, to contribute something
and to meet others. I don't see the contribution you've made here as being
worthy of a community minded "intellectual". And Mensa is only "lofty" in
the minds of those who think so. I don't see it that way. I see it as an
avenue for me to contribute, not for the organisation to give me more than I
put in.
Jamie Smith
>
>Mensaen posts 'enquiring' message asking others their views on the
>organisation.
>
>Mensaen uses the opportunity to drop their IQ <although never
>accomplishments> into the discussion, of course others are inexorably
>drawn to drop in their own.
>
>Thread degrades into a tit-for-tat on the various sad gits of high
>intelligence who do or do not belong to Mensa
>
>Mensaen takes it upon himself <usually> to tell us that we, the rest
>of the world aspire to mediocrity.
>
>Classic!
>
>-Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your contribution to the above process is noted.
Jamie S
Jamie Smith
tricia
<jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote:
>>Oh and the next ploy is to accuse those who mock of being jealous that
>>they can't belong to the lofty organisation of Mensa.
>>Wait for it.....
>
>
>
>>and having a psychological illness...
>
>
>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
>>-Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>Your signature, though funny, is indicative of a superior attitude. We
>belong to Mensa for social and community reasons, to contribute something
>and to meet others. I don't see the contribution you've made here as being
>worthy of a community minded "intellectual". And Mensa is only "lofty" in
>the minds of those who think so. I don't see it that way. I see it as an
>avenue for me to contribute, not for the organisation to give me more than I
>put in.
>
Kerry has had that signature for quite some time, your paranoia is
showing.
Are you too intelligent to have a sense of humour
Tricia
-----
ICQ 1378028
tricia
<jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote:
>>Ahhhh....ain'tit always the way.
>>
>>Mensaen posts 'enquiring' message asking others their views on the
>>organisation.
>>
>>Mensaen uses the opportunity to drop their IQ <although never
>>accomplishments> into the discussion, of course others are inexorably
>>drawn to drop in their own.
>>
>>Thread degrades into a tit-for-tat on the various sad gits of high
>>intelligence who do or do not belong to Mensa
>>
>>Mensaen takes it upon himself <usually> to tell us that we, the rest
>>of the world aspire to mediocrity.
>>
>>Classic!
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
>>-Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>Your contribution to the above process is noted.
And yours is soooo fine too
Geez
Tricia
-----
ICQ 1378028
Jamie Smith
>Kerry has had that signature for quite some time, your paranoia is
>showing.
I'm not always visiting the newsgroups, so Kerry signature is new to me.
>Are you too intelligent to have a sense of humour
hey is it only us "super intelligentsia" that know that humour and IQ are
muchly unrelated. get a grip. What stops you from accepting that others can
belong to groups and do things for unselfish reasons. If you belong to any
groups or teams of any sort, I'll bet you tell others about it. The
difference is that if I mention my affiliations, those affiliations
encourage people who may be too nervous to take a test and know "for sure"
to speak up.
What stops you from letting others have the freedom to talk about and join
associations? My postings to the newsgroups were for research purposes, to
get opinion. Seems most of what I've got is very useful. Most people have
the wrong idea about Mensa. Your postings verify this.
Jamie S
>Tricia
>
> -----
>
>ICQ 1378028
Jamie Smith
--
Jamie Smith
NZ Business Software Ph/Fax 0-9-478-8622
For Business Planning and Marketing Software
Promotions Officer for Mensa NZ for 1998/99
Alternative email promo...@mensa.org.nz
Or visit http://www.mensa.org.nz
tricia wrote in message <35b343ec...@news.wgtn.ihug.co.nz>...
Jamie Smith
--
Jamie Smith
NZ Business Software Ph/Fax 0-9-478-8622
For Business Planning and Marketing Software
Promotions Officer for Mensa NZ for 1998/99
Alternative email promo...@mensa.org.nz
Or visit http://www.mensa.org.nz
tricia wrote in message <35b2434f...@news.wgtn.ihug.co.nz>...
>On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:43:56 +1200, "Jamie Smith"
><jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote:
>
>>>Oh and the next ploy is to accuse those who mock of being jealous that
>>>they can't belong to the lofty organisation of Mensa.
>>>Wait for it.....
>>
>>
>>
>>>and having a psychological illness...
>>
>>
>>
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
>>>-Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film
>>>
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>>Your signature, though funny, is indicative of a superior attitude. We
>>belong to Mensa for social and community reasons, to contribute something
>>and to meet others. I don't see the contribution you've made here as being
>>worthy of a community minded "intellectual". And Mensa is only "lofty" in
>>the minds of those who think so. I don't see it that way. I see it as an
>>avenue for me to contribute, not for the organisation to give me more than
I
>>put in.
>>
>Kerry has had that signature for quite some time, your paranoia is
>showing.
>
>Are you too intelligent to have a sense of humour
>
>Tricia
>
> -----
>
>ICQ 1378028
Andy Bearsley
Jamie Smith wrote in message <6oakfs$poo$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>And for those who are interested, check out our home page at
>www.mensa.org.nz and let us have some feedback about the site please.
Site Layout:-
Good points: It loaded quickly - I appreciate pages with minimum graphics.
Logo is small (in bytes), thanks. The background is subtle - doesn't
interfere with the text.
Bad points:- Too much text is presented at once to the viewer. Your
bulleted points should be left aligned. The centered text seemed to
distract me from the content - there may be better ways to justify the text.
Also the layout of the paragraphs distracted me from the content - overall
it appears untidy. As a whole, the layout sits more at the amature end of
web page design, rather than the professional end of the scale.
Content:-
The content was okay.
Andy B.
Andy Bearsley
Jamie Smith wrote in message <6orfn2$r43$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>Your contribution to the above process is noted.
Jamie, you dont seem to understand the problem. I'll see if I can help
clarify it a little:-
On Monday July 13, you said:
"I'm recently appointed Promotions Officer for Mensa NZ. We're looking for
members, and this is as good a place as any to go hunting for
candidates...."
This implies several things. First up, you are here representing Mensa.
(We'll pretend for a moment that the post was only posted to appropriate
newsgroups)
Saying you are appointed implies you were either elected Promotions Officer,
or a Mensa elected official placed you in this position. This implied you
are here with Mensa's blessing - the blessing of the members.
Therefore you are apparently the most likely from all Mensans to succeed in
recruiting, unless you have some deeper motive re Mensa that I haven't
ascertained yet.
So we'll run with:- Out of all the members of Mensa, you're the best
chance they have of recuiting people.
Moving along... you said:-
"I'd like to get some feedback from y'all about what you think Mensa is
about, and what you think about the people who do belong that actually tell
others about it. Are they boasting, genuinely interested in things or what?
Also, I'd like to get a picture of how y'all see us. Who can describe a
mensan, please lemme know if you think they've got bulgy eyes, stare at you
a lot, or look normal."
We gave feedback regarding what we thought Mensa was about - you didn't
appear to like getting it (contrary to your assurance you would). We
described Mensans, and you didn't like that either.
But wait... there's more... You said:-
"Every
fiftieth person on statistics is likely to have a suitable score for
joining. Of the people who sit the test, about half actually pass, so if
you've been seriously thinking about having a go, remember that the chances
of passing (I.Q. >140) are better if you sit the test than if you don't!"
Some people expressed opinions on this. You didn't seem happy with those
opinions either.
And lastly in that first post you said:-
"In anticipation, thanks for your feedback"
After the feedback, you didn't seem quite so happy.
Now, on to the crux.
People who know nothing of Mensa are going to judge the entire organisation
by what you, as a representative of that organisation, say and do here.
If you say belittling things to people in this group, then "Mensa belittles
people" becomes true. If you are arrogant here, then "Mensa is an arrogant
organisation" becomes true. It may not ACTUALLY be true, but you're the
only contact most people here are ever going to have with Mensa. So you are
actually reinforcing those stereotypes rather than working to break them
down. As an appointed recruiting officer, surely you want to give people
the absolute rosiest picture of Mensa to get past the apparent
preconceptions pervading the people here.
Now, you're apparently the best example of a recruiting Mensan that there
is (refer first section), so we have to assume that the faults we're seeing
in you are even more apparent in other Mensans.
You actually almost had me interested in what you had to say for a moment.
The post where you stopped attacking others people here (despite their
attacking you) and presented facts in an apparently unbiased manner.
Yes, I know you're only human. I know we're all bastards for attacking
you. I know all sorts of things went wrong with your day.... I know none
of it is your fault... whatever.
We're your (potential) customers. You have to present to us the snappiest,
rosiest, most attractive picture of your company (Mensa) that you can put
together. In the face of adversity, you have to laugh along with the rest
of us. You have to concentrate on all the wonderful things Mensa has to
offer. You have to dazzle us with hints of the pure ecstasy Mensan
membership would be for us. You gotta be cooler than cool, sharper than
sharp. Totally unfazable.
You are Mensa.
If you want members, then you gotta shine a whole lot brighter than you
have been.
Andy B.
Paul Kozlovskis
> Any group, even Mensa, is a microcosm of the world, and all of the people
> mentioned here can be found in this group. We encourage it.
Well, no, it can't be a 'microcosm of the world' for the simple fact
that people below a certain level of IQ are excluded.
> Or am I being too soft on those who lay claim to genius? Realise you can be
> a member of Mensa without having suitable income or employment or career
> achievements. We have kids, unemployed, builders, retired people and pretty
> well heaps of people from across all walks of life an occupations. Anyone
> can join. Meet more people like yourself. Scary thought isn't it!
But you have no people with an 'average' IQ.
--
Paul Kozlovskis
+++
Democratic institutions generally give
men a lofty notion of their country and
themselves.
- Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835.
tricia
<jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote:
>
>>Kerry has had that signature for quite some time, your paranoia is
>>showing.
>
>
>I'm not always visiting the newsgroups, so Kerry signature is new to me.
>>Are you too intelligent to have a sense of humour
>
>hey is it only us "super intelligentsia" that know that humour and IQ are
>muchly unrelated. get a grip. What stops you from accepting that others can
>belong to groups and do things for unselfish reasons. If you belong to any
>groups or teams of any sort, I'll bet you tell others about it. The
>difference is that if I mention my affiliations, those affiliations
>encourage people who may be too nervous to take a test and know "for sure"
>to speak up.
>
>What stops you from letting others have the freedom to talk about and join
>associations? My postings to the newsgroups were for research purposes, to
>get opinion. Seems most of what I've got is very useful. Most people have
>the wrong idea about Mensa. Your postings verify this.
No that is where you are wrong, I made no comment about any of your
post except for your snooty remark to Kerry about her
signature.......................you are making too much of nothing
I couldn't care whether you are in MENSA or underwater hockey you do
not display much of a sense of humour.
Tricia
-----
ICQ 1378028
Gaven Miller
> (How many smilies should I have included?)
Three point two.
--
All email sent to my inca address will fail, however I can now be
contacted via an intermediary : gem at tos pl net. I would like to
apologise to the genuine respondents that this may inconvenience.
Frank G. Pitt
"Jamie Smith" <jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote:
>>I know, I know. I'm generalizing. But any organisation whose name is
>>based on a pun isn't likely to get my support.
>
>Latin isn't known for it's bility to generate puns.
Oh, yes it is.
It's just that not many people can understand them
these days.
Cicero, for instance, used puns quite a lot, and even
in his military history of the invasion of England
Julius Caesar wasn't adverse to using a couple.
>you do know what Latin and a table is I presume?
Latin is either a language or a cultural/ethnic
distinction.
A table is an item of furniture with a flat upper
surface and one or more supports usually referred
to as legs
Or did you mean something else ?
Frankie
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Andy Bearsley" <an...@ambient.gen.nz.remove>:
> Aside from being a social club, has Mensa achieved anything newsworthy?
Is 'newsworthy' something to strive for? :) No, I don't think Mensa
achieves much that is newsworthy.
The founders had this idea of Mensa being a big think tank, a collection of
intelligent people who could collectively do great things for all humanity.
Having a good time was a secondary objective. I think it is fair to say
things have worked out the other way round.
Those things do get discussed; the letters pages tend to be full of debate
about all sorts of problems facing humanity. But you've probably all worked
out that being intelligent doesn't specify your political outlook,
religion, outlook on life, etc. You might as well expect nz.politics to
reach a consensus. :) Lively debate is common, but consensus about the best
way to tackle such tricky problems is not often reached.
Mensa is more a group of individuals who have a good time (who enjoy each
other's company) than being collectively focussed on solving humanities
problems. Many members make contributions to humanity, but they tend to do
them under their own steam. Members tend to be very individual. :)
There are exceptions, like MERF (Mensa Education Research Foundation) and a
tradition of having a high level of involvement with gifted children.
As for the news, a large proportion of Mensa members are news shy. It is
only reluctantly that I openly state that I am a member. Unfortunately many
people discriminate against intelligence, and regard saying "I'm a member
of Mensa" tantamount to saying "I'm stuck-up, and think I'm genius".
Suddenly anything you say is more likely to be interpreted as arrogant. The
majority of Mensans do not flout their membership.
I hope that answers your question. :)
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Moz (Chris Moseley)" <mo...@ihug.co.nz>:
> Mensa is all about people who are good at IQ tests, I thought.
That seems to be a common misconception. That is only the entry
requirement, it has nothing to do with what Mensa is about.
> Any connection between that ability and intelligence is largely
> circumstantial AFAIK. For starters, you can get better at the tests
> by practicing, which kind of nullifies any attempt to claim that
> they measure any inherent trait.
You assume that intelligence is an inherent trait that you can't improve. I
disagree, although I would agree that you could increase your performance
in a standard IQ test without significantly effecting your intelligence.
> I should be, definitely. As an incentive to the rest to get out and grab
> a life before it's too late. I once sat most of an IQ test. But then I
> once sat grade one music theory and I don't expect you to hold that
> against me either.
Me neither, and I've sat both a music theory test and an IQ test. I also
wouldn't want people to hold getting good results against me. :)
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Andy Bearsley" <an...@ambient.gen.nz.remove>:
> That reminds me (again) of a book you can buy called 'How to raise your IQ
> by 10 points" (or something like that).
> A friend told me that if you learn the numerical equivalents of letters of
> the alphabet by heart you'll do better in certain IC tests.
That is true, insofar as some IQ tests use that sort technique. I do not
think it is a very good sort of question for IQ tests. Not all IQ tests are
created equal. :)
> If you become aware of certian 'types' of puzzles existing, you're more
> likely to do well when you encounter them again than you would the first
> time. My opinion based on experience.
An awareness of what to look for does help. I'm can't think of any way of
measuring intelligence which would get around this, intelligence is like
that. (You are better at solving any problem once you've been made aware of
what you need to look for.) The best you can do is to avoid using obscure
tricks (like alphabet letters matching numbers) which hide the essence of
what is going on, relying on complexity instead.
When the Ravens Matrix test is administrated (the one Mensa NZ uses for
admission testing) you first get shown a sample question, which they make
sure everyone understands. Hopefully you understand what you are looking
for (in general), and then have to apply yourself to doing it. :)
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
rab...@exxxtra.co.nz (tricia):
>> Isn't that largely (though not entirely) what they call EQ these days?
>> Empathy, sociability, mental equilibrium and that kind of thing? How
>> namby-pamby! Surely you must realise that it can't be as important as
>> proving to the world what a whopping great tower of iron IQ you have!
> Well no I hadn't but no doubt you are about to enlighten me !
EQ = Emotional Quotient where IQ = Intelligence Quotient. If you think the
usefulness of IQ tests (or what it is they measure) is controversial, it
pales by comparison to EQ tests. :) EQ is supposed to be your emotional
makeup in terms of if you tend to do the right things to make you
'successful' in life. (I've also seen EQ used as 'Environmental Quotient'.
This is not the standard meaning.)
"A cool head, a steady heart and a positive outlook - that's emotional
intelligence. And EQ might matter more than brains in separating life's
winners and losers."
"What does it mean? It means our moods matter, and how we manage them makes
a difference to our success - in love, jobs, life. So, whether you sort out
your distress over chamomile tea or hurl a hairbrush at your paramour
depends on how much emotional intelligence you possess."
And you might say yeah, that's all cool and dandy, but how do you measure
that? The following is a recruitment-screening test. If you get a good
result they massage your ego and suggest you apply for a job with them. :)
http://www.erac.com/recruit/EQ01.htm
While I'm at it, the best (IMO - by the criteria of being the most fun to
do and having good questions) online IQ test I have found is at:
http://cech.cesnet.cz/IQ/IQ-test-e.html
(For those who are curious, the format of questions 9-15 in the above test
is similar to the Mensa NZ admission test.)
>> Tricia, I bet you fifty bucks I'm not deceiving myself. You're in
>> Wellington, are you not? I'll show you the results letter and the (as yet
>> unfilled) application form at any mutually convenient time and place (don't
>> forget to bring your wallet). I'll even let you quote it when you post your
>> retraction.
> I am on to you, this is a cunning way to get into my house!!
Of course, isn't this why people hang out in nz.general? To figure out ways
of getting into your house? :)
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Brent Thomson" <btho...@ihug.co.nz>:
> I'm not sure what the pun is, but I'm familiar with the very cerebral joke -
> a cartoon of a man with a noose around his neck about to step off a chair,
> with the caption "he was turned down from mensa".
> If you're not currently rolling around laughing, check the end of this post
> for the punch-line loved by classicists.
I 'get' the joke, but I have to admit it didn't have me rolling on the
floor. Hopefully this isn't symptomatic of me being humourless. :)
> I have no problem with nerds getting together to play word games - heck,
> nerds are people, too. I have a problem with processes for testing IQ that
> are based on your subscription to Readers Digest (the weird word column) or
> your general knowledge of the only country in the world, the USA (who cares
> what the capital of Ohio is, anyway?).
I have to admit that I do too. :) IMO word based IQ tests are not the way
to go. But perhaps I'm biased because I have a suspicion I'm better at the
IQ tests that are not word based. :)
> Statistically there's a chance I'd do better on some IQ tests than the
> average panelbeater, but panelbeaters come in a range of abilities, too.
> Who the f**k cares if someone is a testable genius if they are nothing
> short of brilliant in ding removal?
Someone having a conversation with you over dinner might appreciate your
intellect and wit. :) (Of course if you're offering to pay for dinner they
might consider your panel beating expertise important too.)
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
claire hurman <d...@you.spammed.me.com>:
>> You mean that feeling self-important will get me a high IQ score?
>> I've been on the wrong track all these years then. :)
> hehe. Actually there does seem to be a link between high academic
> self-concept and achievement. I just skimmed the subject at Teachers'
> College. Incredibly boring fact I know, but relevant nontheless.
I guess that does make sense. If you've given yourself a high standard to
live up to (or you *know* you are A+ material) then you will probably
strive to live up to it. Being resigned to getting Cs (or whatever) is not
likely to inspire you to study very hard. :)
Rem
Colin Coghill
<r...@NOJUNK.rembrandt.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>And you might say yeah, that's all cool and dandy, but how do you measure
>that? The following is a recruitment-screening test. If you get a good
>result they massage your ego and suggest you apply for a job with them. :)
>
> http://www.erac.com/recruit/EQ01.htm
Well, I scored "6". Whatever that means.
I then answered it by picking the answers I found most offensive - in
that I'd most likely really despise someone who genuinely answered them
like that - and got 12.
I guess I won't be applying for a job there ;)
>While I'm at it, the best (IMO - by the criteria of being the most fun to
>do and having good questions) online IQ test I have found is at:
>
> http://cech.cesnet.cz/IQ/IQ-test-e.html
Hmm, 141, I must be slipping. ;(
Well there goes any chances at my ideal job of fitting shapes into holes.
- Colin
--
Colin Coghill |
http://kcbbs.gen.nz/~colin | The sleeper must awaken!
ICQ 8108509 |
----------------------------+------------------------------------
C.Coghill AT auckland.ac.nz | Campaigning for 4 line .sigs
Rembrandt Kuipers
ul...@bigfoot.com (Brian Logan):
> Maybe they need a nz.mensa group to post to so we can see the benefits
> of practising their IQ tests to pass and join.
You can try reading groups in the mensa.* hierarchy if you wish. I'm not
sure what you expect to find, but then you might not be either. :) Others
are welcome to post there, not just members, although I think the majority
of posters are members. But joining Mensa doesn't suddenly make you a nice
person, you still get both flame wars and interesting conversions in NGs.
> They could have someone wittily recount the enjoyable events of their
> social gatherings and make us feel deprived from having missed out
Well, I must say I enjoy their social gatherings, when I actually find the
time to go. I enjoy social gatherings in general though, but there is a
difference. I find the level of conversation is great, the debates tend to
be well informed and animated, and everyone gets your jokes :). I've always
found the atmosphere to be very friendly, and frequently very stimulating.
Not everyone joins Mensa for the same reasons though. For me it is the
social contact. Others like to play games against people at a similar
level, others like the level of debate.
Many like to interact with each other through the magazine, or even just
read it to see what others are thinking and doing. And yes, many people do
enjoy doing the puzzles in the magazine. :) Or to laugh at the jokes.
A large part of the way Mensa operates revolves around Special Interest
Groups (SIGs), where you find the groups of people who have similar
interests to yourself. Whether it is getting together to eat out (one of
the most successful in NZ is the called the PigSIG, for just that) or
sharing hobbies. There is a huge list of international SIGs.
I think what people get out of Mensa is an individual as the membership
itself. You can't make a broad statement to cover everyone. :) If there is
anything in Mensa for you, or anyone else, is really up to you. I think
there is probably something of interest for all potential members, but
hopefully I've given you enough information to make up your own mind.
One reason that will shortly be of benefit to me is the fantastic
international hospitality that members extend to each other. There is a
international network of SIGHT hosts (we love our acronyms, don't ask me
what SIGHT stands for). When you travel and get in touch with the SIGHT
co-ordinator of where you are going, you will meet a warm reception from
people who are eager to show you around, will often offer you a place to
stay, and are very pleased to see a member from another country.
> (How many smilies should I have included?)
I still have in mind your constantly smiling friendly face, it would be
hard to take anything you say as being nasty. :)
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Andy Bearsley" <an...@ambient.gen.nz.remove>:
> This implies several things. First up, you are here representing Mensa.
> (We'll pretend for a moment that the post was only posted to appropriate
> newsgroups)
I think it has already been established the NGs it was posted to initially
were completely inappropriate. I believe it was an honest mistake.
> Saying you are appointed implies you were either elected Promotions Officer,
> or a Mensa elected official placed you in this position.
It was a vacant position for a long time. Jamie approached us (the National
Committee, of which I'm a member) saying he would be willing to fill that
role. He presented a lot of fresh ideas to us, and showed an eagerness to
do the job. The administration of Mensa is unpaid volunteer work, as is his
position of Promotions Officer. We were very happy to accept him.
> This implied you are here with Mensa's blessing - the blessing of the members.
Well at the very least of the National Committee. Yes, he is. That is not
to say I agree with everything he says, but I do support him. I would like
to think our membership is generally supportive, especially of unpaid
volunteer work, even when mistakes are made. We are after all not trying to
make money, if Mensa did not provide such a friendly and supportive
environment, I can't see any reason for why I'd want to stay.
> Therefore you are apparently the most likely from all Mensans to succeed in
> recruiting, unless you have some deeper motive re Mensa that I haven't
> ascertained yet.
> So we'll run with:- Out of all the members of Mensa, you're the best
> chance they have of recuiting people.
Of all the volunteers for the position, I can safely say he will be the
most likely to succeed. :) Of all members, who knows? Deciding who would be
the best would be far beyond my ability, even if they were all available.
Do you think the best person for a job generally does it? :)
The chance is off course significantly affected by how much time the person
can put in. Mensa's members tend to be busy people. :) Your criticism is
that Jamie did not present the best possible, well-polished, image of
Mensa. I agree. But I think he is competent, and has the skills to increase
awareness of our organisation. I'm grateful for him volunteering his time
to do a job I have neither the skill nor time for, and while I'm hesitant
to speak for others, that is my perception of the committees attitude, and
probably represents what our wider membership thinks too.
> We gave feedback regarding what we thought Mensa was about - you didn't
> appear to like getting it (contrary to your assurance you would). We
> described Mensans, and you didn't like that either.
I found the responses interesting. Not very surprisingly a range of views
was presented. Nobody said "Oh I think you guys are really cool, but
unfortunately I missed out on the admission test." :) But then you are
unlikely to form such an opinion unless you are a member in the first
place. I think that well informed opinions either way are hard to form
realistically without being an active member for awhile.
> But wait... there's more...
There always is. :)
> And lastly in that first post you said:-
> "In anticipation, thanks for your feedback"
> After the feedback, you didn't seem quite so happy.
I would like to make sure there is no ambiguity here. I would like to
extend my gratitude on behalf of Mensa to all that have contributed. It is
appreciated, and we are listening. :) I think many have posters displayed
tolerance, of excessive cross-posting for instance, and appreciate this.
There are also some perceptions out there I would like to see change, but
that is another matter. :)
I think your post is a constructive and well thought out one. I would like
to see more feedback of this calibre. :)
> Now, on to the crux.
> People who know nothing of Mensa are going to judge the entire organisation
> by what you, as a representative of that organisation, say and do here.
Perhaps it serves as an unintentionally (and perhaps rather severe)
intelligence test. :)
It actually surprises me how well (in general) the membership works out.
How friendly people are. After all there are more important things about
somebody than their intelligence, as far as I'm concerned anyway. We don't
vet our membership so that only friendly, humble, compassionate people can
join, only your IQ test score counts. But fortunately, such qualities are
quite prominent among members. :)
> You actually almost had me interested in what you had to say for a moment.
> The post where you stopped attacking others people here (despite their
> attacking you) and presented facts in an apparently unbiased manner.
That is an ideal I know I strive towards, but don't always achieve. I do
not have the impression that Usenet is Jamie's home ground, and he has made
mistakes. If you have any questions, I would be happy to try and answer
them to the best of my ability (as I'm sure he still is), if you agree not
to attach my nasty personality traits to Mensa. :)
> You have to present to us the snappiest, rosiest, most attractive picture
> of your company (Mensa) that you can put together.
I'd just like to point out (in case this is a common misconception rather
than a typo) that Mensa is a non profit organisation, not a company. :)
> You have to dazzle us with hints of the pure ecstasy Mensan membership
> would be for us. You gotta be cooler than cool, sharper than sharp.
> Totally unfazable.
I don't think that is really feasible. :) I just hope people see enough
potential in Mensa to decide it is worth trying out. In my experience,
people can only get to like Mensa by participating. It not like a piece of
art you stick on the wall and admire, you get involved to experience it. :)
I'm not really one to for glitzy promotion. I'd like people to know about
it so they can decide for themselves. :) I think enough (of our 70,000 odd
potential membership in NZ) would join if they knew about Mensa.
> You are Mensa.
I would hate anyone to jump to the conclusion that my personal faults (of
which I have many) are representative of Mensa. Likewise I hope people are
intelligent enough not to attribute to Mensa unpleasant aspects of others.
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
"Andy Bearsley" <an...@ambient.gen.nz.remove>:
>> And for those who are interested, check out our home page at
>> www.mensa.org.nz and let us have some feedback about the site please.
> Site Layout:-
> Good points: It loaded quickly - I appreciate pages with minimum graphics.
> Logo is small (in bytes), thanks. The background is subtle - doesn't
> interfere with the text.
Yeah, huge graphics annoy me. The least I can do is not repeat that mistake
on sites I design. :) I have reservations about having the background
though, I've considered removing it.
> Bad points:- Too much text is presented at once to the viewer. Your
> bulleted points should be left aligned.
They should be the same as the text surely?
> The centered text seemed to distract me from the content - there may be
> better ways to justify the text. Also the layout of the paragraphs
> distracted me from the content - overall it appears untidy. As a whole,
> the layout sits more at the amature end of web page design, rather than
> the professional end of the scale.
I must admit I quite like centred text for it's tendency to look good on
any size browser (rather than just the size it was designed on), but I was
still doubtful if it looked better centred or not. I'll change it left
justified. As for site design, it is one of these things that I never got
around to doing properly, I'm too busy reading Usenet. :)
Thanks for your comments.
Rem
Rembrandt Kuipers
co...@dont.spam.me (Colin Coghill):
It didn't tell you? I got quite a rant.
> I then answered it by picking the answers I found most offensive - in
> that I'd most likely really despise someone who genuinely answered them
> like that - and got 12.
LOL. :) Being more 'offensive' is probably regarded as 'assertive'.
I answered by taking the honest answer if there was one, and choosing the
one I thought they wanted to hear if there wasn't an applicable answer IMO.
:) It is rather a shallow test, I have seen a better one but can't find it.
> I guess I won't be applying for a job there ;)
Well they couldn't use the same test as they use online...
>> http://cech.cesnet.cz/IQ/IQ-test-e.html
> Hmm, 141, I must be slipping. ;(
Well, it is more than enough for Mensa, subject to that test having fairly
standard results compared to other IQ tests. :)
> Well there goes any chances at my ideal job of fitting shapes into holes.
I prefer making the hole fit whatever shape I want to put in it. :)
Rem
Brent Thomson
Jamie Smith wrote in message <6ooivp$5o7$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>Latin isn't known for it's ability to generate puns. you do know what Latin
>and a table is I presume?
With the greatest of respect, WHAT? Latinists are responsible for some of
the best/worst puns around. Try a really good translation of Ovid's
Metamorphoses. It's been a while since I had a bash at it (and my Latin was
never particularly great), but it has some wonderful puns. In later Latin,
Bede is an absolute master of the pun - I think a lot of people know the
joke he attributes to Pope Gregory, when he sent Augustine to convert
Britain - about making "Angles" into "Angels".
Brent
Avatar
On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:18:31 +1200, "Jamie Smith"
<jsm...@ihug.co.nz.NOSPAM.> wrote in message
[<6oskiq$hbe$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>]:
>And again. Intelligence and humour are not directly related.
Most of the smartest people in the world have a great sense of humor, and
conversely - as can be seen by examples in this very newsgroup - the
dimmest have little in the way of humor.
Also, the smarter people can insult better than the dumber people I have
noticed. The dumber people generally throw the same insults as they did in
primary school (mental development stopped at 14yo), only using longer
words or more complex syntax.
Others simply exhibit their lower IQ by suggesting things that are not
workable or are short sighted. The recent example of WFD people 'killing
opossums' comes to mind: when questioned, the person suggesting this could
not in any way suggest a way it would practically work. And LO and Behold!
His resulting insults were both predictable and banal.
Why ? i suggest that a smarter person has more energy to waste on jokes and
humor than a less intelligent person. Therefore when a less intelligent
person attempts it, the smarter person laughs only out of courtesy.
The brain has only so many neurons and connections, and despite opinions to
the contary, i think most off them ARE used. It follows that there are only
some many alternate thought-lines that can be followed at a given time. Our
thoughts battle it out below conscious notice in a system that resembles
very much the theories of survival of the fittest and evolution in
practice. Ideas fight for relevancy and mate with others to produce a more
likely contender. This all takes energy and computing power, and our brains
have only so much of both.
It therefore comes down to efficiently. If the efficiency of a mind's
'algorithms' is of such a level as to be significantly improved over the
average, that person may be a 'genius'. I dare say genetics AND environment
play a part in this early on. The same system that allows a certain person
to 'visualize' or 'foresee' alternatives or repercussions that others don't
- even if both have the same base information - is the same one that see's
humor in things that others do not, or that formulate humor, notices irony,
hypocrisy, poetry and so on. You might think of it as a more advanced form
of pattern recognition or as a more sophisticated search algorithm.
So, I suggest there is a direct link, even though there may not be a
rigorous study to support that. But then there are not such studies for a
great deal of things to do with the mind.
Avatar.
All my comments are "In my Opinion", unless otherwise stated, and are Copyright 1998.
Join the Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email - http://www.cauce.org
Giles Boutel
>wrote:
>
>>Tricia, I bet you fifty bucks I'm not deceiving myself. You're in
>>Wellington, are you not? I'll show you the results letter and the (as yet
>>unfilled) application form at any mutually convenient time and place
(don't
>>forget to bring your wallet). I'll even let you quote it when you post
your
>>retraction.
>>
>I am on to you, this is a cunning way to get into my house!!
Having no idea where you live, I cannot comment on the mutual convenience
of your abode. I was thinking more of a central public place where you can
bring as many support/protection/laugh-at-the-defensive-geek people as you
please. Rest assured, I've been to many houses in the past (I've even lived
in several) and coming up with cunning plans to enter more of them isn't my
idea of time particularly well spent. I merely seek to postively address
the accusation of self-deception - while making a quick buck or fifty.
If I can prove the matter to your satisfaction in another manner, without
the need for physical presence, then just name it. In the absence of some
form of attempt to validate your remarks I shall be forced to conclude
you're just like all those terrible, unfeeling people who used to beat me
up as a child for being able to use 'parthenogenesis' in a grammatically
correct sentence :-(
>
>>Yours in anticipation,
>and tongue hanging out?
Damn - caught out. After all, being just a geek who hasn't spoken to a
woman in twenty years, the mere thought of standing within five feet of a
living, breathing person of the female persuasion has me so hot and
bothered I can hardly read my Unix manual without my glasses fogging up.
Seriously, though. This is purely a matter of honour, dignity, and
cashflow. Address this matter with haste, or I shall be forced to make
chicken noises at you. I pray it won't come to that (not that there's
anything wrong with my chicken noises, it would just be unfortunate in
general).
-Giles
Colin Francis
Avatar .. Phew !!! .. That made great reading and it made sense too
.:]
**My first sexual experience was frightening
It was dark and i was alone **
Col..
Jamie Smith
>> mentioned here can be found in this group. We encourage it.
>
>Well, no, it can't be a 'microcosm of the world' for the simple fact
>that people below a certain level of IQ are excluded.
'Tis too. The same dynamics exist in our group as in any other as in the
world.
>> can join. Meet more people like yourself. Scary thought isn't it!
>
>But you have no people with an 'average' IQ.
Sure we do. I'm an average member .....
Jamie S