Trademe bitch...
~misfit~
must have been blacklisted by at least half-a-dozen now simply for pointing
out that they are describing their goods wrongly, or even questioning if
what they've written is in fact correct!
I tried complaining to Tardeme a long time ago about it, pointing out that I
was doing a service for their other customers by catching out people who
were falsly advertising. Of course they didn't want to know, saying that
traders can chose who they want to sell to.
The interesting thing is that it's usually traders with a thousand or more
'trades' that are the quickest to use the blacklist feature. They've got so
many balls in the air they don't want to be bothered with the truth!
Ehhh! I don't feel any better for venting.... As you were. :-/
--
Shaun.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Donchano
On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:22:59 +1200, "~misfit~"
<sore_n...@nospamyahoo.com.au> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>I hate the way that a 'trader' can just blacklist you from their auctions. I
>must have been blacklisted by at least half-a-dozen now simply for pointing
>out that they are describing their goods wrongly, or even questioning if
>what they've written is in fact correct!
>
>I tried complaining to Tardeme a long time ago about it, pointing out that I
>was doing a service for their other customers by catching out people who
>were falsly advertising. Of course they didn't want to know, saying that
>traders can chose who they want to sell to.
>
>The interesting thing is that it's usually traders with a thousand or more
>'trades' that are the quickest to use the blacklist feature. They've got so
>many balls in the air they don't want to be bothered with the truth!
What I can't understand is why you'd even *want* to trade with these
traders. Frankly, I'd be happy to be blacklisted by them.
Bruce Sinclair
>I hate the way that a 'trader' can just blacklist you from their auctions. I
>must have been blacklisted by at least half-a-dozen now simply for pointing
>out that they are describing their goods wrongly, or even questioning if
>what they've written is in fact correct!
>
>I tried complaining to Tardeme a long time ago about it, pointing out that I
>was doing a service for their other customers by catching out people who
>were falsly advertising. Of course they didn't want to know, saying that
>traders can chose who they want to sell to.
>
>The interesting thing is that it's usually traders with a thousand or more
>'trades' that are the quickest to use the blacklist feature. They've got so
>many balls in the air they don't want to be bothered with the truth!
>
>Ehhh! I don't feel any better for venting.... As you were. :-/
Bummer. I didn't know you could blacklist, so thanks for that.
For me, I'd settle for not being charged the full (admitedly small) value of
something by trademe if 'withdrawing' it. This happened to me recently, so I
simply added a comment that 'this is no longer for sale so don't bid on it'.
Thankfully, no one did. :)
I can't see it costs them much if anything and surely withdrawing something
is better than continuing to sell it when you know there's something wrong
with it ? <sigh>
Unless you do it a lot of course ... but most of us don't ? :)
~misfit~
The thing is, most of the time I don't. They just happen to be selling in a
category that I'm perusing and obviously I know a lot more about than they
do (or they're just trying to rip people off). It must be the latter if they
don't take being corrected very well.
~misfit~
> In article <ip7nl6$8g5$1...@dont-email.me>, "~misfit~"
> <sore_n...@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> I hate the way that a 'trader' can just blacklist you from their
>> auctions. I must have been blacklisted by at least half-a-dozen now
>> simply for pointing out that they are describing their goods
>> wrongly, or even questioning if what they've written is in fact
>> correct!
>>
>> I tried complaining to Tardeme a long time ago about it, pointing
>> out that I was doing a service for their other customers by catching
>> out people who were falsly advertising. Of course they didn't want
>> to know, saying that traders can chose who they want to sell to.
>>
>> The interesting thing is that it's usually traders with a thousand
>> or more 'trades' that are the quickest to use the blacklist feature.
>> They've got so many balls in the air they don't want to be bothered
>> with the truth!
>>
>> Ehhh! I don't feel any better for venting.... As you were. :-/
>
> Bummer. I didn't know you could blacklist, so thanks for that.
Heh! You've obviously never called someone on something that they'd hoped to
get away with then. They can call you a liar and, when you go to defend
yourself and put it right, find yourself blacklisted. Cool ay?
> For me, I'd settle for not being charged the full (admitedly small)
> value of
> something by trademe if 'withdrawing' it. This happened to me
> recently, so I
> simply added a comment that 'this is no longer for sale so don't bid
> on it'.
> Thankfully, no one did. :)
Excellent.
> I can't see it costs them much if anything and surely withdrawing
> something
> is better than continuing to sell it when you know there's something
> wrong
> with it ? <sigh>
> Unless you do it a lot of course ... but most of us don't ? :)
LOL, nah, I'm not. I have had people ask me why I don't put things on TM and
just say 'untested'. I don't know, there's just something in my makeup that
won't allow me to do that with something that I know to be faulty. However I
think I'm in the minority. I've come to read 'untested' as 'not working' and
it cost me a bit to learn that a hell of a lot of people are arseholes.
Cheers,
Donchano
On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:44:08 +1200, "~misfit~"
<sore_n...@nospamyahoo.com.au> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>Somewhere on teh intarwebs Donchano wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:22:59 +1200, "~misfit~"
>> <sore_n...@nospamyahoo.com.au> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>>
>>> I hate the way that a 'trader' can just blacklist you from their
>>> auctions. I must have been blacklisted by at least half-a-dozen now
>>> simply for pointing out that they are describing their goods
>>> wrongly, or even questioning if what they've written is in fact
>>> correct!
>>>
>>> I tried complaining to Tardeme a long time ago about it, pointing
>>> out that I was doing a service for their other customers by catching
>>> out people who were falsly advertising. Of course they didn't want
>>> to know, saying that traders can chose who they want to sell to.
>>>
>>> The interesting thing is that it's usually traders with a thousand
>>> or more 'trades' that are the quickest to use the blacklist feature.
>>> They've got so many balls in the air they don't want to be bothered
>>> with the truth!
>>
>> What I can't understand is why you'd even *want* to trade with these
>> traders. Frankly, I'd be happy to be blacklisted by them.
>
>The thing is, most of the time I don't. They just happen to be selling in a
>category that I'm perusing and obviously I know a lot more about than they
>do (or they're just trying to rip people off). It must be the latter if they
>don't take being corrected very well.
Well ... I better be careful what I say from now on. Shortly after
replying to your post I tried to ask a question on TradeMe about a
vintage watch that appeared to be damaged. I was going to ask if the
dial was porcelain and was that a crack or discolouring I could see in
the photo. But when I attempted to send the question a TradeMe widow
popped up telling me that I'd been blacklisted by the seller. Guess I
asked this kind of question before - not rudely, but, as you mentioned
... some traders don't appreciate the flaws in their items being
pointed out.
BTW - I've blacklisted that trader in return. And he's the first and
only trader I've blacklisted.
Peter Huebner
says...
The bizarre thing about it is, so long as they don't reply, your question won't
even be visible to other people, so it won't detract from their item (except
the page shows 'there are nn unanswered questions on this auction'.
To blacklist someone like that is just sheer orneriness.
I think Trademe should show the questions regardless, and I think they should
prevent sellers from blacklisting buyers willy-nilly. Although, being able to
blacklist someone because _they_ have not come up with the cash or otherwise
messed up one of your auctions is desirable as an option, I can see that.
-P.
~misfit~
Hi Peter.
> The bizarre thing about it is, so long as they don't reply, your
> question won't even be visible to other people, so it won't detract
> from their item (except the page shows 'there are nn unanswered
> questions on this auction'.
> To blacklist someone like that is just sheer orneriness.
>
> I think Trademe should show the questions regardless, and I think
> they should prevent sellers from blacklisting buyers willy-nilly.
Yeah, good luck with that. I spent a few days firing emails back-and-forth
with Trademe on exactly this issue. I told Trademe that I know my ThinkPads
and some sellers are mis-representing their goods and, when I ask for
clarification I'm getting blacklisted. Trademe don't care if the buyer *is*
being lead down the garden path, as long as the get their pound of flesh.
> Although, being able to blacklist someone because _they_ have not
> come up with the cash or otherwise messed up one of your auctions is
> desirable as an option, I can see that.
I guess. However I've not heard of the feature being used like that. It's
mainly used to keep people from blowing the lid off the scam...
Robert Cooze
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:48:24 +1200, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> LOL, nah, I'm not. I have had people ask me why I don't put things on TM
>> and just say 'untested'. I don't know, there's just something in my
>> makeup that won't allow me to do that with something that I know to be
>> faulty. However I think I'm in the minority. I've come to read
>> 'untested' as 'not working' and it cost me a bit to learn that a hell of
>> a lot of people are arseholes.
>
> doing so.
>
>
I have found selling old or faulty goods like TV's there is a market for
there parts I when selling am strait up saying does not work in the
title and description.
A TV I sold they wanted the the tube and a dishwasher and oven the scrap
value of the metal was less than they paid and more than for me to dump it.
But saying untested if it is bung not my style. I have seen does not
work auctions where the photo gives a good clue to why it did not work
and cheep fix, some of those auctions went for silly money.
Bruce Sinclair
>Somewhere on teh intarwebs Bruce Sinclair wrote:
>> Bummer. I didn't know you could blacklist, so thanks for that.
>
>Heh! You've obviously never called someone on something that they'd hoped to
>get away with then. They can call you a liar and, when you go to defend
>yourself and put it right, find yourself blacklisted. Cool ay?
Ay indeed ! I admit I usually just pass the dodgy listings by (figuring that
'people are cleverer than that' pehaps ?). Neither do I take what I read at
face value (ie I have never said "it must be true, I read it on the interweb
thingy" ... well, not when I haven't been taking the piss at least :) ).
I suspect that my assumptions aren't true ? :)
(snip)
>LOL, nah, I'm not. I have had people ask me why I don't put things on TM and
>just say 'untested'. I don't know, there's just something in my makeup that
>won't allow me to do that with something that I know to be faulty. However I
>think I'm in the minority. I've come to read 'untested' as 'not working' and
>it cost me a bit to learn that a hell of a lot of people are arseholes.
Hmm ... connecting this with the points above, I do recall someone I know
selling a dishwasher that said clearly something like "broken, doesn't work,
good for parts" (or similar). They got ~ $120 for it (and were very
surprised figuring they buyer must have a few broken ones with different
faults !), the people paid the money picked it up, and brought it back the
next day saying 'it doesn't work'. Perhaps people *are* that stupid and
don't in fact read *anything*, let alone one version only ?? :) :)
Outcome of the dishwasher story was "what part of doesn't work don't you
understand?", no refund was given, and the grumpy 'buyer' left it there.
The person sold it again for scrap at the tip. :) :)
Gordon
> Trademe don't care if the buyer *is*
> being lead down the garden path, as long as the get their pound of flesh.
Gentle people this *is* *it*. Trademe is nothing more or less than a
bussiness, who object is to make profit. As long as it is done legally then
they care not how it is done.
They are not there to do anything else. Never consider them as worrying
about correcting societies problems, scammers, as long as the sales keep on
happening.
Look at any big company, same rules apply. Trademe is not alone. Forget the
pre sold Trademe, read about it in history.
another aspect is that Trademe is somewhat of a monolopy, the name is so
well known it is almost has the meaning of an online web site. In the same
way that Biro, means a ball point pen, rather than a brand of ball point
pen.
The only real way to win this battle is to set up a very sucessful auction
web site which has openess and honesty as its base and people use it.
There have been sharletons (Charlatans) for eons.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan
In usage, a subtle difference is drawn between the charlatan and other kinds
of confidence people. The charlatan is usually a salesperson. He does not
try to create a personal relationship with his marks, or set up an elaborate
hoax using roleplaying. Rather, the person called a charlatan is being
accused of resorting to quackery, pseudoscience, or some knowingly employed
bogus means of impressing people in order to swindle his victims by selling
them worthless nostrums and similar goods or services that will not deliver
on the promises made for them.
Unquote
Gordon
[snip]
> Hmm ... connecting this with the points above, I do recall someone I know
> selling a dishwasher that said clearly something like "broken, doesn't work,
> good for parts" (or similar). They got ~ $120 for it (and were very
> surprised figuring they buyer must have a few broken ones with different
> faults !), the people paid the money picked it up, and brought it back the
> next day saying 'it doesn't work'. Perhaps people *are* that stupid and
> don't in fact read *anything*, let alone one version only ?? :) :)
A mere days reading of Usenet proves this beyond all reasonable doubt.
Have you read your contract with your electricity supplier, your ISP, your
telecommunications supplier, etc?
At these days they are in plan English.
Peter Huebner
>
> Gentle people this *is* *it*. Trademe is nothing more or less than a
> bussiness, who object is to make profit. As long as it is done legally then
> they care not how it is done.
>
Of course they are a business. However, aiding and abetting is still considered
to be illegal in many various criminal activities - and fraud (e.g. knowingly
misrepresenting the goods you are selling) is an illegal activity - period.
They are actually on thin ice regarding being caught out as a quasi-fence and
they _are_trying to remove auctions where it's pointed out to them that the
goods are stolen as far as I am aware.
However, considering the number of people using the site every day, I am not in
the least surprised that they have problems policing their auctions, or even
meaningfully engaging in dialogue about borderline fraud cases.
Which in no way excuses their not making an effort to eliminate scam artists...
any business is so far obliged to operate inside the law, which makes me wonder
what would happen if Shaun would talk to Consumer Affairs about the goings on.
Consumer Affairs want documentation, mind. I was scammed by Telecom once and
because I had nothing on paper or email, CA agreed with me in principle (they
had had similar complaints from other sources alas Telecom had carefully not
sent any of us the paperwork promised over the phone) and so they could not be
prosecuted.
-P.
Richard
There is an abundance of broken TVs on trademe. I guess that people dont
want to have to lug it to the side of the road.
Richard
> On 2011-04-27, ~misfit~<sore_n...@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> Trademe don't care if the buyer *is*
>> being lead down the garden path, as long as the get their pound of flesh.
>
> Gentle people this *is* *it*. Trademe is nothing more or less than a
> bussiness, who object is to make profit. As long as it is done legally then
> they care not how it is done.
>
They pull anything that looks like an apple music player or phone,
claiming that its because buyers are confused, yet allow nokia or other
replicas stay on there.
I think its because they are owned by a media company that gets
advertising revenue from apple and had the hard word put on them. Ebay
seem to be quite happy to have 100s of varietys of players that go from
dead ringer for a shuffle all the way thru to being about as dissimilar
as you can be and still even be considered to be inspired by the apple
device. Trademe wouldnt let any like that be sold on their site.
The problem is it is just that, THEIR site, so you cant do anything
about it.
In saying that, I dont think that anything should be done to stop the
blacklisting, just like you can ask anyone to leave your real shop, you
should be able to keep them off your listings too.
pystol
(Bruce Sinclair) wrote:
> In article <ip7nl6$8g...@dont-email.me>, "~misfit~" <sore_n_ha...@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >I hate the way that a 'trader' can just blacklist you from their auctions. I
> >must have been blacklisted by at least half-a-dozen now simply for pointing
> >out that they are describing their goods wrongly, or even questioning if
> >what they've written is in fact correct!
>
> >I tried complaining to Tardeme a long time ago about it, pointing out that I
> >was doing a service for their other customers by catching out people who
> >were falsly advertising. Of course they didn't want to know, saying that
> >traders can chose who they want to sell to.
>
> >The interesting thing is that it's usually traders with a thousand or more
> >'trades' that are the quickest to use the blacklist feature. They've got so
> >many balls in the air they don't want to be bothered with the truth!
>
> >Ehhh! I don't feel any better for venting.... As you were. :-/
>
> Bummer. I didn't know you could blacklist, so thanks for that.
>
> For me, I'd settle for not being charged the full (admitedly small) value of
> something by trademe if 'withdrawing' it. This happened to me recently, so I
> simply added a comment that 'this is no longer for sale so don't bid on it'.
> Thankfully, no one did. :)
TradeMe doesn't like that and if they see it will presume you have
advertised it for sale somewhere else or have avoided having to pay
their selling fee or some other crap. Unfortunately TradeMe is the
position of being able to shit on us whenever they want to and the do
ay every opportunity.
It's best to add a couple of zeros to your selling price to deter
people from bidding and don't put the "this item is no longer for
sale" notice up. $3 to get something 'officially' withdrawn - fuck
that!
Gib Bogle
> Have you read your contract with your electricity supplier, your ISP, your
> telecommunications supplier, etc?
>
> At these days they are in plan English.
Meaning "I plan to read them one day" ;-)
Robert Cooze
Think of it this way everything has a value, as well as what someone
will pay and what somebody wants for it. Now if the tube on a TV is ok
and it is sold for a dollar or so so that tube lives again, is that not
better than ending up in landfill?
But seriously if it is broken and is for sale and I have not sold it the
next week ends up in tip or e-waste collection.
Bruce Sinclair
(snip)
>Consumer Affairs want documentation, mind. I was scammed by Telecom once and
>because I had nothing on paper or email, CA agreed with me in principle (they
>had had similar complaints from other sources alas Telecom had carefully not
>sent any of us the paperwork promised over the phone) and so they could not be
>prosecuted.
This is a favourite tactic of phone salesmin. "no we can't send you the
contract because we don't have it" was the best answer I got after I said
something like "yes, I would love to buy your product, please send me the
contract so I can read it and sign it". :)
So, how could they answer actual qwuestions about it then ? Classic. :) Yet
that can apparently get everything *they* need for a "contract" over the
phone. Fascinating. :) :)
Bruce Sinclair
I'll translate so no one has to read the things and get depressed ...
1) We, the supplier, while in the business of supplying <insert service
here>, promise nothing at all.
2) You the consumer, promise to pay us (the supplier) as much as we ask for
without question.
3) If you, the consumer, have a problem with that, see (1)
4) If you still have a problem, we are happy to disconnect you for a fee (to
be set by us).
See, easy ! :) :)
Bruce Sinclair
>On Apr 27, 4:17=A0pm, bruce.sincl...@NOSPAMORELSEagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz
>(Bruce Sinclair) wrote:
(snip)
>> Bummer. I didn't know you could blacklist, so thanks for that.
>>
> of
>> something by trademe if 'withdrawing' it. This happened to me recently, s=
>o I
>> simply added a comment that 'this is no longer for sale so don't bid on i=
>t'.
>> Thankfully, no one did. :)
>
>TradeMe doesn't like that and if they see it will presume you have
>advertised it for sale somewhere else or have avoided having to pay
>their selling fee or some other crap. Unfortunately TradeMe is the
>position of being able to shit on us whenever they want to and the do
>ay every opportunity.
>
>It's best to add a couple of zeros to your selling price to deter
>people from bidding and don't put the "this item is no longer for
>sale" notice up. $3 to get something 'officially' withdrawn - fuck
>that!
Problem with upping the "price" is that some idiots delight in stupid bids.
Creates extra problems, success fees etc.
That's the first thing I've ever tried to withdraw ... and should something
similar ever happen again (which I doubt) I will use the same method to
prevent the sale. :)
Each "option" that trademe adds makes them less useful for me. Sadly, they
really are the only game in town ... but there will come a time ... :)
Donchano
On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:22:59 +1200, "~misfit~"
<sore_n...@nospamyahoo.com.au> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>Ehhh! I don't feel any better for venting.... As you were. :-/
Actually, I have another TradeMe bitch about vintage watch traders who
put crappy photos and lame descriptions in their auction adverts. In
most cases it's just stupidity and an inexperienced trader who hasn't
taken the time to look to see what good TradeMe auctions look like. So
you have to coax information from them and request better photos.
But with others it's downright deception and hoping bidders will think
they're getting an amazing bargain from a newbie trader.
When you ask them about the condition of the watch, or some flaw or
damage that's evident from the photo/s - but not mentioned in the
description - the favoured response is a claim that they know nothing
about watches and/or they're selling the watch on behalf of someone
else or been given the watch or inherited it from an uncle or
grandfather, etc. So they really can't answer any questions about the
watch's condition or whether the case is gold or pot metal or if it
actually works. They'll also claim that their camera is old or that
they don't know how to take better photos, but that the watch is
"really nice."
There's one guy in particular who keeps advertising the same high-end
vintage man's wristwatch with a very collectable, sought after model
with a famous brand name. But if you copy the trader's "enlarged"
photo and enlarge it even further, you can see definite signs of water
damage and/or corrosion on the edge of the dial (watch face).
I asked him about this in an earlier auction and after giving me a
vague, evasive answer he blacklisted me. The watch was then relisted
(which deletes my question and his answer) and still hasn't sold
despite being relisted around six times since then.
If someone finally does buy the watch they're in for repairs costing
far more than the asking price (which would be very attractive if the
watch was in good condition), but there's no way I can ask about the
condition again because the trader has blacklisted me.
Squiggle
>
> If someone finally does buy the watch they're in for repairs costing
> far more than the asking price (which would be very attractive if the
> watch was in good condition), but there's no way I can ask about the
> condition again because the trader has blacklisted me.
>
Seeing as I have little to no interest in vintage watches I'd be quite
happy to ask on your behalf, and wear the blackmark with honour. :)
Every withdrawl and relisting will be costing him a few dollars.. with
the number of posters in here the seller might get the message.
Anybody else keen to play?
Donchano
On Mon, 02 May 2011 18:44:12 +1200, Squiggle <squi...@in.the.sand>
shouted from the highest rooftop:
>On 2/05/2011 1:44 p.m., Donchano threw some characters down the intarwebs:
Many thanks.
The watch has been relisted on TradeMe as: Listing #: 372334123
If you enlarge the big photo you can clearly see either moisture/water
damage and/or corrosion on the dial (watch face) counter clockwise
from 12 o'clock to 5 o'clock.
The problem with traders who use composite photos like that is that,
while looking good, they don't show the details of a watch that
collectors like me like to see ... as in the inset photo of the works
(although you *can* see a hint of corrosion around the outside edges
of the back of the case).
Donchano
On Mon, 02 May 2011 19:00:07 +1200, Donchano
<donc...@notachance.invalid> shouted from the highest rooftop:
Opps - Listing #: 372334123
If you enlarge the big photo you can clearly see either moisture/water
damage and/or corrosion on the dial (watch face) counter clockwise
from 12 o'clock to 7 o'clock.
Squiggle
Just had a look at his feedback, looks like he is a very dodgy trader
indeed. Pity trade me will do nothing about it since he is reasonably
high volume.
Donchano
On Mon, 02 May 2011 19:04:54 +1200, Squiggle <squi...@in.the.sand>
Yes ... I have to admit that, even though it should be the first thing
I check, I didn't check his feedback until after I was blacklisted.
Probably sidetracked by the prospect of getting my hands on what - on
the surface - looked like a beautiful watch at a very reasonable
asking price. Fortunately, my little voice spoke up before I was
sucked in.
Just to make it easier for anybody else who's interested, here's the
auction link:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Jewellery-watches/Watches/Mens-watches/Vintage/auction-372334123.htm
Squiggle
Added it to my watchlist since its about to close, will put questions on
the new auction if he relists.
Interesting things you find when you google his name...
http://www.timekeeper.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=501
http://www.votemenot.co.nz/thread/262260/is-trade-me-asleep-at-the-wheel/
Donchano
On Mon, 02 May 2011 20:27:10 +1200, Squiggle <squi...@in.the.sand>
shouted from the highest rooftop:
>On 2/05/2011 7:01 p.m., Donchano threw some characters down the intarwebs:
>>
>> On Mon, 02 May 2011 19:00:07 +1200, Donchano
>> <donc...@notachance.invalid> shouted from the highest rooftop:
>>
>>
>>
>> Opps - Listing #: 372334123
>>
>> If you enlarge the big photo you can clearly see either moisture/water
>> damage and/or corrosion on the dial (watch face) counter clockwise
>> from 12 o'clock to 7 o'clock.
>
>
>Added it to my watchlist since its about to close, will put questions on
>the new auction if he relists.
>
>Interesting things you find when you google his name...
>
>
>http://www.timekeeper.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=501
>http://www.votemenot.co.nz/thread/262260/is-trade-me-asleep-at-the-wheel/
Many thanks. Never thought of that. The guy is apparently not to be
trusted. Apparently for legal reasons ...
Bruce Sinclair
I'm in. Always happy to dis crooks and shysters. :)