Linux Media Centres
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=28984> putting his audio and video
collections into a more easily-accessible online form.
Like many tech types, he tends to get roped into providing support for less-
clued-up friends and family. And like any savvy tech type, the less support
he has to give them, the happier he is. So he likes to set them up with low-
maintenance Linux-based systems.
Enkidu
> Jeremy �Samba� Allison recounts his experiences
have three kernels, RT (for the tricky stuff, editting and so on) and
not RT (for normal background listening). Of those 22 programs about 3 -
4 are mixers and controllers of some sort, three or four are audio
players and about the same number are audio/video players, there are
several meters, audio editors, MIDI players and other more specific use
programs (eg RoseGarden). And so on.
This is all because some players don't play some audio/video files and
others do. If Totem doesn't play it (and Totem has trouble with many,
many files) I use something else or play it in something like VLC. And
some are because I need MIDI for the MIDI instruments and that opens a
whole new can of worms (sequencers, synths and so on).
Audio and video on Linux is *NOT* in any way simple. I've never found an
audio/video player that flawlessly plays everything. Also managing audio
files is a nightmare which is only made worse by the idiosyncratic
programs that are around to manage your collection.
Oh and that 22 programs doesn't take into account the command line
programs that I use.
Cheers,
Cliff
--
The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
the same old personalities show through.
Allistar
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> Jeremy “Samba” Allison recounts his experiences
>> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=28984> putting his audio and video
>> collections into a more easily-accessible online form.
>>
>> Like many tech types, he tends to get roped into providing support
>> for less- clued-up friends and family. And like any savvy tech type,
>> the less support he has to give them, the happier he is. So he likes
>> to set them up with low- maintenance Linux-based systems.
>>
> Well, let's see. I have 22 programs in my "Sound and Video folder". I
> have three kernels, RT (for the tricky stuff, editting and so on) and
> not RT (for normal background listening). Of those 22 programs about 3 -
> 4 are mixers and controllers of some sort, three or four are audio
> players and about the same number are audio/video players, there are
> several meters, audio editors, MIDI players and other more specific use
> programs (eg RoseGarden). And so on.
>
> This is all because some players don't play some audio/video files and
> others do. If Totem doesn't play it (and Totem has trouble with many,
> many files) I use something else or play it in something like VLC. And
> some are because I need MIDI for the MIDI instruments and that opens a
> whole new can of worms (sequencers, synths and so on).
>
> Audio and video on Linux is *NOT* in any way simple.
That's definitely true for video. There is a dearth of decent video editing
applications available.
> I've never found an
> audio/video player that flawlessly plays everything. Also managing audio
> files is a nightmare which is only made worse by the idiosyncratic
> programs that are around to manage your collection.
I find Amarok to be quite nice. I'm stuck with 1.4 at work because KDE4 has
features missing that I use.
> Oh and that 22 programs doesn't take into account the command line
> programs that I use.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cliff
>
--
A.
Enkidu
mad. Also it requires the KDE libraries which is another load of baggage
that I didn't need.
Allistar
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:31:35 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
>
>> Amarok is the least worst, but its idiosyncratic interface drives me
>> mad. Also it requires the KDE libraries which is another load of baggage
>> that I didn't need.
>
> Well it *IS* a KDE application developed by the KDE project!
It is a KDE application, but it's an "external" application (not developed
as part of the main KDE set of applications). Then again, they have
recently rebranded and changed things around, so I could be wrong.
> Have you tried using Kaffeine as a media player?
--
A.
Enkidu
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 13:52:41 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> available for you to use. And they are included with the OS, And you
> are free to uninstall any or all of them and install something else
> if that takes your fancy!
>
> Can you say the same about the multi-media applications bundled with
> MS Windows?
>
Lawrence claimed that Linux audio/video stuff was simple enough to give
to novices. In view of the fact that I often have to try a couple of
appls to run audio/video stuff even of the same sort, I disagreed.
Novices do not appreciate the depth of choice. They want one appl to do
it all, and Linux appls are not able to do that.
Enkidu
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:31:35 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
>
>> mad. Also it requires the KDE libraries which is another load of baggage
>> that I didn't need.
>
>
>
alternative. I don't like the way that KDE appls do things.
Allistar
> Sweetpea wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:31:35 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
>>
>>> Amarok is the least worst, but its idiosyncratic interface drives me
>>> mad. Also it requires the KDE libraries which is another load of baggage
>>> that I didn't need.
>>
>> Well it *IS* a KDE application developed by the KDE project!
>>
>> Have you tried using Kaffeine as a media player?
>>
> No. I loathe and despise the KDE stuff as a rule, unless there is no
> alternative. I don't like the way that KDE appls do things.
What do you use as a Window manager/desktop environment? I have been a KDE
user for many years but am considering ditching it because of the KDE4.4
fiasco. Any recommendations on an alternative (but not Gnome, I've never
like that).
--
A.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> I have been a KDE user for many years but am considering ditching it
> because of the KDE4.4 fiasco.
WHAT KDE4.4 fiasco?
Allistar
The fact that is is missing features that KDE 3.5 has.
--
A.
Sailor Sam
What's wrong with (g)mplayer?
I've not had a problem with any file formats (Audio, or Video).
Enkidu
8-) Some people like XFCE.
Enkidu
>
> I've not had a problem with any file formats (Audio, or Video).
>
remember and I'd bet that I'd opened media of that type successfully
since. It's still on the pooter.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
What features?
Enkidu
> In message <WPidndpctpDaRd7W...@giganews.com>, Allistar wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <GJWdnZg8RuqcI97W...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have been a KDE user for many years but am considering ditching it
>>>> because of the KDE4.4 fiasco.
>>> WHAT KDE4.4 fiasco?
>> The fact that is is missing features that KDE 3.5 has.
>
> What features?
>
Allistar
> In message <WPidndpctpDaRd7W...@giganews.com>, Allistar
> wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <GJWdnZg8RuqcI97W...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have been a KDE user for many years but am considering ditching it
>>>> because of the KDE4.4 fiasco.
>>>
>>> WHAT KDE4.4 fiasco?
>>
>> The fact that is is missing features that KDE 3.5 has.
>
> What features?
The ability to run multiple independant KDE sessions on one X server at the
same time. Can be done with KDE3.5, but not 4.3
--
A.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <WPidndpctpDaRd7W...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <GJWdnZg8RuqcI97W...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have been a KDE user for many years but am considering ditching it
>>>>> because of the KDE4.4 fiasco.
>>>>
>>>> WHAT KDE4.4 fiasco?
>>>
>>> The fact that is is missing features that KDE 3.5 has.
>>
>> What features?
>
> The ability to run multiple independant KDE sessions on one X server at
> the same time. Can be done with KDE3.5, but not 4.3
Something like this <http://en.gentoo-
wiki.com/wiki/X.Org/Dual_Monitors#Independent_Dual_Head_in_KDE_4.2>?
Stephen Worthington
wrote:
Nor are Windows apps either. There are plenty of times I have had to
use a different player program under Windows.
Allistar
No. That's not running two independant KDE4 sessions. That's running one
KDE4 session and one XFCE (or whatever) session.
I cannot find a way to run a 3D accelerated triple head KDE4 setup. I can do
it with KDE 3.5 ok.
From my perspective this is a showstopper for me upgrading to KDE4 on my
primary office workstation.
--
A.
Allistar
> but surely KDE 4.4 has not yet been release. What fiasco are you speaking
> about?
Sorry, I meant 4.3.4.
I use multiple KDE (3.5.10) sessions to run an accelerated triple head
setup. I.e. I have two KDE desktops running. That isn't possible with KDE4.
--
A.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <tZKdne1MgZCJodnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The ability to run multiple independant KDE sessions on one X server at
>>> the same time. Can be done with KDE3.5, but not 4.3
>>
>> Something like this <http://en.gentoo-
>> wiki.com/wiki/X.Org/Dual_Monitors#Independent_Dual_Head_in_KDE_4.2>?
>
> No. That's not running two independant KDE4 sessions. That's running one
> KDE4 session and one XFCE (or whatever) session.
Or how about one KDE4 session and one KDE3 session?
Allistar
> In message <w66dnevdd-SQzNnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
> wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <tZKdne1MgZCJodnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The ability to run multiple independant KDE sessions on one X server at
>>>> the same time. Can be done with KDE3.5, but not 4.3
>>>
>>> Something like this <http://en.gentoo-
>>> wiki.com/wiki/X.Org/Dual_Monitors#Independent_Dual_Head_in_KDE_4.2>?
>>
>> No. That's not running two independant KDE4 sessions. That's running one
>> KDE4 session and one XFCE (or whatever) session.
>
> Or how about one KDE4 session and one KDE3 session?
KDE3 is not being actively developed anymore. As it is I am using the sunset
overly so some updates come through, but even then there's no guarantee
that an update to glibc of gcc won't break it. I don't really want both
kde4 and kde3 libraries on one system. Upstream aren't fixing KDE3 anymore.
If I was to use KDE4 I would want the benefit of it across all of my
monitors.
Multi session works in KDE3 and doesn't in KDE4. For me that's an issue
preventing me from upgrading.
--
A.
Allistar
> Have you reported the inability to have multiple sessions running as a
> fault?
It has been reported by many people already. It's a known issue that they
have no plans to address. From what I've read it was an "accident" that you
could do it in KDE 3.5 (even though most other Window managers allow it).
The main problem really is the inability to do 3D accelerated setups with
more than one GPU. NVidia has TwinView for doing this across two outputs on
one GPU, but there is no TripleView or QuadView either across separate
display adapters or in a quad output adapter.
I don't really need 2 separate X sessions, but so far that's the only way
I've found I can do an accelerated desktop on 3 outputs.
--
A.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <w66dnevdd-SQzNnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <tZKdne1MgZCJodnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The ability to run multiple independant KDE sessions on one X server
>>>>> at the same time. Can be done with KDE3.5, but not 4.3
>>>>
>>>> Something like this <http://en.gentoo-
>>>> wiki.com/wiki/X.Org/Dual_Monitors#Independent_Dual_Head_in_KDE_4.2>?
>>>
>>> No. That's not running two independant KDE4 sessions. That's running one
>>> KDE4 session and one XFCE (or whatever) session.
>>
>> Or how about one KDE4 session and one KDE3 session?
>
> KDE3 is not being actively developed anymore.
But you were the one insisting on using it.
Allistar
Only because KDE4 lacks features that KDE3 has. I want to upgrade to KDE4,
but until I work around this issue I cannot. I have already upgraded to
KDE4 at home and I like it. But the lack of this feature is a showstopper
for any system with more than 2 heads, if you still want an accelerated
display with the same desktop environment running on all displays.
--
A.
Gordon
>
> Audio and video on Linux is *NOT* in any way simple. I've never found an
> audio/video player that flawlessly plays everything.
And on the Ms Windows platform we have? Is your answer OSS?
Audio and video are moving targets. In short one needs to finds what works.
No matter the platform.
Gordon
> to novices. In view of the fact that I often have to try a couple of
> appls to run audio/video stuff even of the same sort, I disagreed.
>
> Novices do not appreciate the depth of choice. They want one appl to do
> it all, and Linux appls are not able to do that.
A bit of bias showing here me thinks. vlc works on both Windows and Linux
platforms. Like many programmes it "jumped" onto the Windows platform as a)
it was good and b)the code was freely avaliable.
Gordon
[snip]
>
> Sure, like those 22 programs were "bundled" with the OS.
>
Technically, maybe not, but they are nothing more than a few mouse clicks
away. Remember Linux is all over the place, just like the views of the human
race. So there are many options to consider as to what you want/require.
Who wants to live in a Communist/Fasict country after all?
Gordon
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:02:43 +1300, Cima wrote:
>
>>>Isn't it good to have such a choice of good and varied applications
>>>available for you to use. And they are included with the OS, And you are
>>>free to uninstall any or all of them and install something else if that
>>>takes your fancy!
>>
>
> Really???
>
> Have you thought of doing something to remedy that fetish?
>
Is he hurting anyone?
Enkidu
no maintenance, the sort of thing that you would give to people who were
not comfortable with computers. I'm not making any claims for/against
the Windows systems.
Enkidu
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <8aqdnbQNRt4g6NnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <w66dnevdd-SQzNnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <tZKdne1MgZCJodnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ability to run multiple independant KDE sessions on one X server
>>>>>>> at the same time. Can be done with KDE3.5, but not 4.3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something like this <http://en.gentoo-
>>>>>> wiki.com/wiki/X.Org/Dual_Monitors#Independent_Dual_Head_in_KDE_4.2>?
>>>>>
>>>>> No. That's not running two independant KDE4 sessions. That's running
>>>>> one KDE4 session and one XFCE (or whatever) session.
>>>>
>>>> Or how about one KDE4 session and one KDE3 session?
>>>
>>> KDE3 is not being actively developed anymore.
>>
>> But you were the one insisting on using it.
>
> Only because KDE4 lacks features that KDE3 has. I want to upgrade to KDE4,
> but until I work around this issue I cannot.
So why not run both at once?
Allistar
Firstly severely limits what I can do - if I run KWrite on KDE4 it will look
and feel differently to that on KDE3.
Secondly, KDE3 is no longer maintained. It is being phased out.
Thirdly, I don't want to install both KDE3 and KDE4 libraries at the same
time. Can I trust that either the executables and/or configuration for KDE4
won't splat that of KDE3 (or vice versa)?
Forthly, the sound system in KDE4 is different to that of KDE3. Does that
mean the KDE3 desktop won't be able to output any sound?
No, running both at once is a nasty kludge. This is what I am referring to
when I mean "the KDE4 fiasco".
--
A.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> In message <VdSdnR0tR-jkhdjW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <8aqdnbQNRt4g6NnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or how about one KDE4 session and one KDE3 session?
>>>>>
>>>>> KDE3 is not being actively developed anymore.
>>>>
>>>> But you were the one insisting on using it.
>>>
>>> Only because KDE4 lacks features that KDE3 has. I want to upgrade to
>>> KDE4, but until I work around this issue I cannot.
>>
>> So why not run both at once?
>
> Firstly severely limits what I can do - if I run KWrite on KDE4 it will
> look and feel differently to that on KDE3.
In what way does something as superficial as “look and feel” manage to
“severely limit” what you can do?
> Secondly, KDE3 is no longer maintained. It is being phased out.
But you were the one insisting on using it.
> Thirdly, I don't want to install both KDE3 and KDE4 libraries at the same
> time. Can I trust that either the executables and/or configuration for
> KDE4 won't splat that of KDE3 (or vice versa)?
Try it and see.
> Forthly, the sound system in KDE4 is different to that of KDE3. Does that
> mean the KDE3 desktop won't be able to output any sound?
Try it and see.
> No, running both at once is a nasty kludge.
Still, better than sticking with obsolete KDE3, eh?
Allistar
> In message <7JidnU3QDIkGOdvW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
> wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> In message <VdSdnR0tR-jkhdjW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <8aqdnbQNRt4g6NnW...@giganews.com>, Allistar
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or how about one KDE4 session and one KDE3 session?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KDE3 is not being actively developed anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> But you were the one insisting on using it.
>>>>
>>>> Only because KDE4 lacks features that KDE3 has. I want to upgrade to
>>>> KDE4, but until I work around this issue I cannot.
>>>
>>> So why not run both at once?
>>
>> Firstly severely limits what I can do - if I run KWrite on KDE4 it will
>> look and feel differently to that on KDE3.
>
> In what way does something as superficial as “look and feel” manage to
> “severely limit” what you can do?
I would like to use the same applications on all monitors. If I had an
application on monitor 1 that would not run on monitor 2, that would hamper
my productivity.
>> Secondly, KDE3 is no longer maintained. It is being phased out.
>
> But you were the one insisting on using it.
Only because KDE4 lacks the features I need.
>> Thirdly, I don't want to install both KDE3 and KDE4 libraries at the same
>> time. Can I trust that either the executables and/or configuration for
>> KDE4 won't splat that of KDE3 (or vice versa)?
>
> Try it and see.
On a production computer that my livelihood depends on? That's Unlikely.
>> Forthly, the sound system in KDE4 is different to that of KDE3. Does that
>> mean the KDE3 desktop won't be able to output any sound?
>
> Try it and see.
>
>> No, running both at once is a nasty kludge.
>
> Still, better than sticking with obsolete KDE3, eh?
KDE3 is not obsolete yet. And when it is, I will have to make a decision on
either ditching KDE altogether or find some other way to get accelerated
triple head on KDE.
--
A.
Allistar
> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 02:44:16 +1300, Allistar wrote:
>
>> I would like to use the same applications on all monitors. If I had an
>> application on monitor 1 that would not run on monitor 2, that would
>> hamper my productivity.
>
> It must be such a huge challenge to be compelled to use ONLY TWO monitors
> at a time instead of
> [ridiculouslyLARGEnum] of monitors.
Once you've gone dual head, I find it hard to go back. Especially when
combined with multiple desktops. I have a triple head system and am about
the add a 4th to it (rearrange my desk and realised I can easily fit in a
forth now). I think the gain from 3 to 4 will be much less than from 2 to
3. But still, I would like it is KDE4 would run on all 4, it seems that in
this regard it (KDE4) has taken a step backwards from KDE3.
--
A.
Richard
>> Once you've gone dual head, I find it hard to go back. Especially when
>> combined with multiple desktops. I have a triple head system and am
>> about the add a 4th to it (rearrange my desk and realised I can easily
>> fit in a forth now). I think the gain from 3 to 4 will be much less than
>> from 2 to 3. But still, I would like it is KDE4 would run on all 4, it
>> seems that in this regard it (KDE4) has taken a step backwards from
>> KDE3.
>
> LOL!
I use 2 screens, tried a third but the PCI card I used made the machine
too slow.
Will do it again when I get a board with multiple PCIe 16 slots on it.
One screen just for streaming video, media center, another for
tweetdeck, and a couple to work on. With small LCDs being dirt cheap
when I redo the desk will get a couple to put above the main screens to
keep things on to keep an eye on.