subway countdown clocks in the Bronx
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
NYC Transit plans to activate subway countdown clocks at three Bronx
stations by the end of next month. The idea is to keep riders from
guessing when the next train will be there.
Program Officer Mark Bienstock says NYC Transit expects to eventually
have the clocks running in about 150 other stations.
He says the $200 million project should be completed by the end of
next year or early 2011.
Bolwerk
I still don't get how countdown clocks cost $1,333,333.34/station.
Those are some fucking expensive clocks.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> > He says the $200 million project should be completed by the end of
> > next year or early 2011.
>
> I still don't get how countdown clocks cost $1,333,333.34/station.
> Those are some fucking expensive clocks.
The cost of the clock display itself is probably the cheapest element
of the project.
The expense is running the signal and power wires through the stations
and tunnels, and the tie-in to the signal system to get the data.
IMHO, given the very short headways between subway trains, the clock
system is unnecessary.
What is necessary is for the token clerks to be advised when there is
a train delay so they can relay that information to the passengers by
both the PA system and a message board. It would probably be pretty
cheap to have a basic computer screen mounted at various spots on the
platform, mezzaine, and entrances, controlled by the token clerk with
service status. Green letters would say "SERVIC NORMAL". Yellow
letters for moderate delays or overcrowding, Red letters for serious
delays.
MNRR and LIRR have info displays at their stations.
In 'ancient' days the token clerk could telephone the nearest tower
and get train status and pass it on. Why not now? (Likewise for
commuter trains).
Bolwerk
> On Nov 17, 12:37 pm, Bolwerk <bolw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> He says the $200 million project should be completed by the end of
>>> next year or early 2011.
>> I still don't get how countdown clocks cost $1,333,333.34/station.
>> Those are some fucking expensive clocks.
>
> The cost of the clock display itself is probably the cheapest element
> of the project.
>
> The expense is running the signal and power wires through the stations
> and tunnels, and the tie-in to the signal system to get the data.
Oh, come on, this is the 21st century. They could use the Internet if
they had to. I realize they probably have to make infrastructure
improvements that may be expensive, but those by themselves aren't for
the display but for improving train throughput. And remember, even the
L Train display is based on schedules, not tied into where the train
actually is and its true ETA, so signaling shouldn't have that much to
do with it.
Hell, maybe they do use the Internet --- some kind of VPN system seems
like the smart way to go.
> IMHO, given the very short headways between subway trains, the clock
> system is unnecessary.
I don't think it's necessary, but people want it I guess.
> What is necessary is for the token clerks to be advised when there is
> a train delay so they can relay that information to the passengers by
> both the PA system and a message board.
That hardly seems like a solution, given that they're trying to remove
token clerks.
> It would probably be pretty
> cheap to have a basic computer screen mounted at various spots on the
> platform, mezzaine, and entrances, controlled by the token clerk with
> service status. Green letters would say "SERVIC NORMAL". Yellow
> letters for moderate delays or overcrowding, Red letters for serious
> delays.
That's what they're doing on the L Train, except the token clerk isn't
necessary.
And yes, it is cheap. They cobbled the location display system, which
isn't tied into the countdown clock display system, together themselves
with tools they already had and a few HD displays from Best Buy using a
discretionary budget controlled by the L Train's line manager. And the
system worked at least as well as the millions$ being spent in The Bronx.
> MNRR and LIRR have info displays at their stations.
>
> In 'ancient' days the token clerk could telephone the nearest tower
> and get train status and pass it on. Why not now? (Likewise for
> commuter trains).
That only seems necessary when there's a delay.
IMO, the only justification for needing a display system is in trip
planning. If I take the 6 from the UES and want to go to Bushwick, a
system display could tell me whether it'd be smarter to take the L or
the J/M/Z. Of course, it would have to be an exceptionally smart
system. Such a thing could make the system more efficient by making it
possible to plan your trip intelligently in real time, especially when
there are delays for construction.
Slim
<chuckle> All those expensive consultants, trips, meetings, dinners add up!
--
"A nickel isn't worth a dime today." - Y. Berra
Slim
The MTA is always figuring out ways to dole out money for nothing.
Slim
>
> IMO, the only justification for needing a display system is in trip planning.
The only reason is for the well connected to get paid.
Think of the consultants and contracts that have to be awarded.
CHAAAA-CHIIIIIING!!!!!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Bolwerk
Perhaps, but I'd be much more interested in seeing actual numbers.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
they be involved in any other operations?
Joseph D. Korman
There was land line communication between the operations command center
and the stations command center as well as the other support departments
(it was called the 6-wire). The clerks would communicate with their CC
by phone or intercom and the CC would talk to the operations guy.
Things may have changed since I was there 25+ years ago.
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hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
wrote:
> I never knew that token clerks had that ability/responsibility. Could
> they be involved in any other operations?
In the case of severe delay the token clerks would be instructed to
close off turnstiles to restrict the flow of new passengers into the
station. This was to avoid dangerous platform overcrowding.
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
Citibank account in the Kinkos in the Citicorp building at 3pm.) They
are probably running train locations over much more reliable lines for
switching use. If they depended on the bimbonation sleeperhighway,
they would have accidents. I would suspect the supposed clock cost
incorporates the switching system cost and is thusly illusional.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
to people who are inherently biased against it or who think you have a
conflict of interest in what you are suggesting. They offer the illusion of
impartiality. But they know full well they will never get another job if they
fail to help those who hired them. I remember when Margaret Chandler told us
that the biggest problem was not in figuring out what to do, but in getting
the people involved to implement it. The best lessons you learn in management
classes can also be found in Solomon's Proverbs or Aristotle's Rhetoric, but
human beings never let good management practise get in the way of their self
interest. The real problem is that we now hide our lies under ever more
layers of gobbledigook. THe real answer is simplicity. But I don't see anyone
advocating that. After all, the pretentious media will then call simplicty
simplemindedness and assure you that it takes intellect to create spaghetti
tangles of complexity.