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Museum train on the 42nd St. Shuttle!
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Peter T. Daniels
May 11, 2013, 7:21:50 PM5/11/13
to
I went to an 11 am event at John Jay College and, since there's no
longer a bus down Broadway and across to the UN (it was either the 4
or the 104), I took the 1 to Times Square. Imagine my surprise when
the shuttle turned out to be led by a World's Fair car (light blue),
then a redbird but with porthole windows, and then an IRT car from
before my time (1948, the motorman said), with the yellow and green
woven plastic(?) upholstery and bronze trim above the gray-blue sides.
He said they came from the Museum at Court St. but hadn't been
involved in moving them. I surmised up the D to the Woodlawn yard,
then down the 4 to the Lexington connection to the southern shuttle
track. He suggested the A to the 207th yard and down the Bway-7th Ave
line to the connection to the northern shuttle track, but then it
would have to zigzag through the center track to get to the south
track.
The trains exhibit was on the four westernmost tracks on the main
level of GCT (34-37), but the track entrances are marked Exit Only,
and the (more than 2-hour) line to get in started all the way back at
the Lexington side, through the Oyster Bar concourse. So I simply went
into the Transit Museum, where there's an amazing video animating the
Vignelli Map
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SULEo0dKmnU
(The Museum version is 15 min., the YouTube less than 3 1/2, and also
the bottom part is cut off.)
longer a bus down Broadway and across to the UN (it was either the 4
or the 104), I took the 1 to Times Square. Imagine my surprise when
the shuttle turned out to be led by a World's Fair car (light blue),
then a redbird but with porthole windows, and then an IRT car from
before my time (1948, the motorman said), with the yellow and green
woven plastic(?) upholstery and bronze trim above the gray-blue sides.
He said they came from the Museum at Court St. but hadn't been
involved in moving them. I surmised up the D to the Woodlawn yard,
then down the 4 to the Lexington connection to the southern shuttle
track. He suggested the A to the 207th yard and down the Bway-7th Ave
line to the connection to the northern shuttle track, but then it
would have to zigzag through the center track to get to the south
track.
The trains exhibit was on the four westernmost tracks on the main
level of GCT (34-37), but the track entrances are marked Exit Only,
and the (more than 2-hour) line to get in started all the way back at
the Lexington side, through the Oyster Bar concourse. So I simply went
into the Transit Museum, where there's an amazing video animating the
Vignelli Map
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SULEo0dKmnU
(The Museum version is 15 min., the YouTube less than 3 1/2, and also
the bottom part is cut off.)
J
May 12, 2013, 10:10:16 AM5/12/13
to
On May 11, 7:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> The trains exhibit was on the four westernmost tracks on the main
> level of GCT (34-37), but the track entrances are marked Exit Only,
> and the (more than 2-hour) line to get in started all the way back at
> the Lexington side, through the Oyster Bar concourse. So I simply went
> into the Transit Museum, where there's an amazing video animating the
> Vignelli Map
I went into Manhattan just to see that exhibit. Vanderbilt Hall was
>
> The trains exhibit was on the four westernmost tracks on the main
> level of GCT (34-37), but the track entrances are marked Exit Only,
> and the (more than 2-hour) line to get in started all the way back at
> the Lexington side, through the Oyster Bar concourse. So I simply went
> into the Transit Museum, where there's an amazing video animating the
> Vignelli Map
also wall-to-wall people, and I gave up on that, too, after only a few
minutes. Obviously, they were not expecting that big a crowd, though I
don't see how it could have been managed any better if they had
known...
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
May 12, 2013, 8:57:01 PM5/12/13
to
> the shuttle turned out to be led by a World's Fair car (light blue),
> then a redbird but with porthole windows, and then an IRT car from
> before my time (1948, the motorman said), with the yellow and green
> woven plastic(?) upholstery and bronze trim above the gray-blue sides.
The subway cars where the windows could open in the old style way were
> then a redbird but with porthole windows, and then an IRT car from
> before my time (1948, the motorman said), with the yellow and green
> woven plastic(?) upholstery and bronze trim above the gray-blue sides.
very popular. Big crowds riding and taking pictures of them. Even
the postwar units have more charm than the modern units which are all
monochrome steel. Of course, in the summer the modern a/c really
helps.
> The [GCT] trains exhibit was on the four westernmost tracks on the main
> level of GCT (34-37), but the track entrances are marked Exit Only,
> and the (more than 2-hour) line to get in started all the way back at
> the Lexington side, through the Oyster Bar concourse.
It wasn't quite as crowded on Sunday, but still very long waits.
> and the (more than 2-hour) line to get in started all the way back at
> the Lexington side, through the Oyster Bar concourse.
There were 400 people waiting to get in. That's a very slow moving
line through all the displays, and a very crowded one. I gave up.
The good thing is that it shows that people really do like trains.
If Amtrak could provide quality service to desired destinations at a
good price, like _fast_ trains to Cleveland, I think they'd be well
patronized.
I bet there's a lot of points in the NYC suburban commuter area that
would generate good patronage if fast reliable train service was
offered. Many years ago the LIRR abandoned service to places like
Whitestone Landing and Wading River, as did the other railroads.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
May 12, 2013, 8:58:36 PM5/12/13
to
On May 12, 10:10 am, J <jmel...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I went into Manhattan just to see that exhibit. Vanderbilt Hall was
> also wall-to-wall people, and I gave up on that, too, after only a few
> minutes. Obviously, they were not expecting that big a crowd, though I
> don't see how it could have been managed any better if they had
> known...
Heck, unlike othe rplaces they had this for two days. Perhaps it
> I went into Manhattan just to see that exhibit. Vanderbilt Hall was
> also wall-to-wall people, and I gave up on that, too, after only a few
> minutes. Obviously, they were not expecting that big a crowd, though I
> don't see how it could have been managed any better if they had
> known...
could've started an hour earlier and ended an hour later, but that
would've been rough on the volunteers and paid staff.
They did have a private showing on Friday for members of NYTM.
Peter T. Daniels
May 12, 2013, 11:09:25 PM5/12/13
to
On May 11, 7:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
it's up to him to share it with the group. I'm a little dubious about
it.
J
May 13, 2013, 6:36:36 PM5/13/13
to
On May 12, 8:58 pm, hanco...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
> Heck, unlike othe rplaces they had this for two days. Perhaps it
> could've started an hour earlier and ended an hour later, but that
> would've been rough on the volunteers and paid staff.
>
> They did have a private showing on Friday for members of NYTM.
Another friend of mine, who also went into Manhattan just for that,
>
> Heck, unlike othe rplaces they had this for two days. Perhaps it
> could've started an hour earlier and ended an hour later, but that
> would've been rough on the volunteers and paid staff.
>
> They did have a private showing on Friday for members of NYTM.
and who also turned around and gave up (though he did ride the
shuttle, which he said was also insanely crowded), wondered if there
might be any way to extend it for additional days. Obviously, it
couldn't happen during the week, when those tracks are needed for
commuter service, but maybe a holiday weekend...
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
May 13, 2013, 7:54:07 PM5/13/13
to
On May 13, 6:36 pm, J <jmel...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Another friend of mine, who also went into Manhattan just for that,
> and who also turned around and gave up (though he did ride the
> shuttle, which he said was also insanely crowded), wondered if there
> might be any way to extend it for additional days. Obviously, it
> couldn't happen during the week, when those tracks are needed for
> commuter service, but maybe a holiday weekend...
The shuttle was crowded, but not "insanely" so.
> Another friend of mine, who also went into Manhattan just for that,
> and who also turned around and gave up (though he did ride the
> shuttle, which he said was also insanely crowded), wondered if there
> might be any way to extend it for additional days. Obviously, it
> couldn't happen during the week, when those tracks are needed for
> commuter service, but maybe a holiday weekend...
I don't think they could have it there during the weekdays--too many
tracks out of service--but they could possibly extend the hours. But
it would cost more money to do so.
proves trains are popular.
Michael Finfer
May 13, 2013, 9:12:29 PM5/13/13
to
My suggestion was: down Broadway from 207th St., around the loop at
South Ferry, cross over to the Lex, change ends either at 42nd or 59th
St. middle, then back into the shuttle track.
Which route was chosen would be the one that was most operationally
convenient at the time.
Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ
Peter T. Daniels
May 13, 2013, 11:15:42 PM5/13/13
to
South Ferry loop would be placed back in service; would all the
connections they don't use anyway have been intact and in working
order?
The motorman did know that it had been done last weekend. So where did
they hide it for the week?
And also, when they take cars from the Museum display, they substitute
others so that there aren't empty tracks in Court St. Where do they
keep the backup Museum Trains?
Michael Finfer
May 14, 2013, 10:05:24 PM5/14/13
to
On 5/13/2013 11:15 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> However: the display was, obviously, planned before they knew the
> South Ferry loop would be placed back in service; would all the
> connections they don't use anyway have been intact and in working
> order?
The loop was never out of service. Only the loop station was. The loop
> However: the display was, obviously, planned before they knew the
> South Ferry loop would be placed back in service; would all the
> connections they don't use anyway have been intact and in working
> order?
has been available for non-revenue movements.
Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ
Joseph D. Korman
May 17, 2013, 12:29:29 PM5/17/13
to
On 5/11/2013 7:21 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> I went to an 11 am event at John Jay College and, since there's no
> longer a bus down Broadway and across to the UN (it was either the 4
> or the 104), I took the 1 to Times Square. Imagine my surprise when
> the shuttle turned out to be led by a World's Fair car (light blue),
> then a redbird but with porthole windows, and then an IRT car from
> before my time (1948, the motorman said), with the yellow and green
> woven plastic(?) upholstery and bronze trim above the gray-blue sides.
>
> He said they came from the Museum at Court St. but hadn't been
> involved in moving them. I surmised up the D to the Woodlawn yard,
> then down the 4 to the Lexington connection to the southern shuttle
> track. He suggested the A to the 207th yard and down the Bway-7th Ave
> line to the connection to the northern shuttle track, but then it
> would have to zigzag through the center track to get to the south
> track.
>
>
Track 4, the northern shuttle track is not connectedto the other two
> I went to an 11 am event at John Jay College and, since there's no
> longer a bus down Broadway and across to the UN (it was either the 4
> or the 104), I took the 1 to Times Square. Imagine my surprise when
> the shuttle turned out to be led by a World's Fair car (light blue),
> then a redbird but with porthole windows, and then an IRT car from
> before my time (1948, the motorman said), with the yellow and green
> woven plastic(?) upholstery and bronze trim above the gray-blue sides.
>
> He said they came from the Museum at Court St. but hadn't been
> involved in moving them. I surmised up the D to the Woodlawn yard,
> then down the 4 to the Lexington connection to the southern shuttle
> track. He suggested the A to the 207th yard and down the Bway-7th Ave
> line to the connection to the northern shuttle track, but then it
> would have to zigzag through the center track to get to the south
> track.
>
>
tracks. There's a pedestrian bridge across the track that is removed
when they swap out cars. It connects with the northbound Broadway local
track.
Tracks 1 and 3 are connected to each other and connect to the southbound
Lexington Local.
--
-------------------------------------------------
| Joseph D. Korman |
| mailto:re...@thejoekorner.com |
| Visit The JoeKorNer at |
| http://www.thejoekorner.com |
|-------------------------------------------------|
| The light at the end of the tunnel ... |
| may be a train going the other way! |
| Brooklyn Tech Grads build things that work!('66)|
| There are 10 types of people: those who |
| understand binary and those who don't |
|-------------------------------------------------|
| All outgoing E-mail is scanned by NAV |
-------------------------------------------------
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
May 17, 2013, 5:40:44 PM5/17/13
to
On 17/05/2013 17:29, Joseph D. Korman wrote:
> On 5/11/2013 7:21 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> I went to an 11 am event at John Jay College and, since there's no
>> longer a bus down Broadway and across to the UN (it was either the 4
>> or the 104), I took the 1 to Times Square. Imagine my surprise when
>> the shuttle turned out to be led by a World's Fair car (light blue),
>> then a redbird but with porthole windows, and then an IRT car from
>> before my time (1948, the motorman said), with the yellow and green
>> woven plastic(?) upholstery and bronze trim above the gray-blue sides.
>>
>> He said they came from the Museum at Court St. but hadn't been
>> involved in moving them. I surmised up the D to the Woodlawn yard,
>> then down the 4 to the Lexington connection to the southern shuttle
>> track. He suggested the A to the 207th yard and down the Bway-7th Ave
>> line to the connection to the northern shuttle track, but then it
>> would have to zigzag through the center track to get to the south
>> track.
>>
>>
> Track 4, the northern shuttle track is not connectedto the other two
> tracks. There's a pedestrian bridge across the track that is removed
> when they swap out cars. It connects with the northbound Broadway local
> track.
>
> Tracks 1 and 3 are connected to each other and connect to the southbound
> Lexington Local.
>
I thought that they lifted the tracks to the Lexington Avenue Line from
> On 5/11/2013 7:21 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> I went to an 11 am event at John Jay College and, since there's no
>> longer a bus down Broadway and across to the UN (it was either the 4
>> or the 104), I took the 1 to Times Square. Imagine my surprise when
>> the shuttle turned out to be led by a World's Fair car (light blue),
>> then a redbird but with porthole windows, and then an IRT car from
>> before my time (1948, the motorman said), with the yellow and green
>> woven plastic(?) upholstery and bronze trim above the gray-blue sides.
>>
>> He said they came from the Museum at Court St. but hadn't been
>> involved in moving them. I surmised up the D to the Woodlawn yard,
>> then down the 4 to the Lexington connection to the southern shuttle
>> track. He suggested the A to the 207th yard and down the Bway-7th Ave
>> line to the connection to the northern shuttle track, but then it
>> would have to zigzag through the center track to get to the south
>> track.
>>
>>
> Track 4, the northern shuttle track is not connectedto the other two
> tracks. There's a pedestrian bridge across the track that is removed
> when they swap out cars. It connects with the northbound Broadway local
> track.
>
> Tracks 1 and 3 are connected to each other and connect to the southbound
> Lexington Local.
>
what is now the 42nd Street Shuttle.
Peter T. Daniels
May 17, 2013, 10:24:46 PM5/17/13
to
On May 17, 5:40 pm, "hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk" <hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
The shuttle used to be the main line -- for the first few years --
which ran from City Hall to Grand Central, across to Times Square
(Longacre Square at the time; the Times paid the IRT to change the
name on the station, kinda like Barclays), then up Broadway. The other
two arms of the H came along shortly after, and the crossbar was
disconnected for revenue service.
Then the BMT burrowed underneath, so the two lines swap Bway and
Seventh at Times Square.
wrote:
which ran from City Hall to Grand Central, across to Times Square
(Longacre Square at the time; the Times paid the IRT to change the
name on the station, kinda like Barclays), then up Broadway. The other
two arms of the H came along shortly after, and the crossbar was
disconnected for revenue service.
Then the BMT burrowed underneath, so the two lines swap Bway and
Seventh at Times Square.
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
May 18, 2013, 7:39:22 AM5/18/13
to
connected what is now the 42nd Street Shuttle and the Lexington Avenue
Line a few years ago.
Peter T. Daniels
May 18, 2013, 8:46:20 AM5/18/13
to
On May 18, 7:39 am, "hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk" <hounsl...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Oh, by "lift" you mean 'remove'?
If they did that, how would they access the shuttle tracks?
wrote:
If they did that, how would they access the shuttle tracks?
danny burstein
May 18, 2013, 10:20:31 AM5/18/13
to
In <0e39b17c-3064-44a3...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>> > The shuttle used to be the main line -- for the first few years --
>> > which ran from City Hall to Grand Central, across to Times Square
>> > (Longacre Square at the time; the Times paid the IRT to change the
>> > name on the station, kinda like Barclays), then up Broadway. The other
>> > two arms of the H came along shortly after, and the crossbar was
>> > disconnected for revenue service.
>>
>> Yes, I know. But I am asking if they had not lifted the tracks that
>> connected what is now the 42nd Street Shuttle and the Lexington Avenue
>> Line a few years ago.
>Oh, by "lift" you mean 'remove'?
>If they did that, how would they access the shuttle tracks?
From the "other" side, namely the link to the "Broadway" trains
>> > The shuttle used to be the main line -- for the first few years --
>> > which ran from City Hall to Grand Central, across to Times Square
>> > (Longacre Square at the time; the Times paid the IRT to change the
>> > name on the station, kinda like Barclays), then up Broadway. The other
>> > two arms of the H came along shortly after, and the crossbar was
>> > disconnected for revenue service.
>>
>> Yes, I know. But I am asking if they had not lifted the tracks that
>> connected what is now the 42nd Street Shuttle and the Lexington Avenue
>> Line a few years ago.
>Oh, by "lift" you mean 'remove'?
>If they did that, how would they access the shuttle tracks?
(the 1, 2, and 3 line).
- I recall a discussion about getting rid of one of the links
a couple of decades ago, but I haven't been on that section
in a similar timeframe, so can't vouch for the current arrangement.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
houn...@yahoo.co.uk
May 18, 2013, 10:22:57 AM5/18/13
to
Well, the news has reached the United Kingdom's mass media.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/emergency-workers-scene-collision-100504013.html
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/emergency-workers-scene-collision-100504013.html
Peter T. Daniels
May 18, 2013, 3:53:26 PM5/18/13
to
On May 18, 10:20 am, danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:
there is no connection between Track 4 (the northern one) and Tracks 3
and 1 (Track 2 is not used.)
> In <0e39b17c-3064-44a3-871c-6a466f048...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> writes:
>
> >> > The shuttle used to be the main line -- for the first few years --
> >> > which ran from City Hall to Grand Central, across to Times Square
> >> > (Longacre Square at the time; the Times paid the IRT to change the
> >> > name on the station, kinda like Barclays), then up Broadway. The other
> >> > two arms of the H came along shortly after, and the crossbar was
> >> > disconnected for revenue service.
>
> >> Yes, I know. But I am asking if they had not lifted the tracks that
> >> connected what is now the 42nd Street Shuttle and the Lexington Avenue
> >> Line a few years ago.
> >Oh, by "lift" you mean 'remove'?
> >If they did that, how would they access the shuttle tracks?
>
> From the "other" side, namely the link to the "Broadway" trains
> (the 1, 2, and 3 line).
>
> - I recall a discussion about getting rid of one of the links
> a couple of decades ago, but I haven't been on that section
> in a similar timeframe, so can't vouch for the current arrangement.
As JoeKor mentioned, and as confirmed by Pete Dougherty's track map,
>
> >> > The shuttle used to be the main line -- for the first few years --
> >> > which ran from City Hall to Grand Central, across to Times Square
> >> > (Longacre Square at the time; the Times paid the IRT to change the
> >> > name on the station, kinda like Barclays), then up Broadway. The other
> >> > two arms of the H came along shortly after, and the crossbar was
> >> > disconnected for revenue service.
>
> >> Yes, I know. But I am asking if they had not lifted the tracks that
> >> connected what is now the 42nd Street Shuttle and the Lexington Avenue
> >> Line a few years ago.
> >Oh, by "lift" you mean 'remove'?
> >If they did that, how would they access the shuttle tracks?
>
> From the "other" side, namely the link to the "Broadway" trains
> (the 1, 2, and 3 line).
>
> - I recall a discussion about getting rid of one of the links
> a couple of decades ago, but I haven't been on that section
> in a similar timeframe, so can't vouch for the current arrangement.
there is no connection between Track 4 (the northern one) and Tracks 3
and 1 (Track 2 is not used.)
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