Using packet over voice repeaters

[KE7ACY - Jeff]

Anyone have any insight into operating packet over a voice repeater?

Seems to me that has some issues to it, but I am unable to recall what they might be!

I haven't been using packet for anything other than APRS for a while now so I have forgotten what issues there may be with this.

Thanks and 7  3

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY

Central Oregon

[James Wagner]

Hello, Jeff -

Since nobody has answered yet, there are a couple of issues related to packet over voice repeaters:

(1) Technical: The common repeater "tail" really slows things down.

(2) Technical: A PL tone has to be supplied by the transmitter. Some transceivers may not do that in data mode.

(3) Technical: A packet repeater does error checking and handshaking. It will not resend a packet with errors. You don't have this capability in a voice repeater. Its not the end of the world but, depending on signal qualities, it can lead to an increase in the number of packets flying around on the frequency. 

(4) Technical: Packet is normally used in simplex mode, with transmit and receive at the same frequency. With a repeater offset, you cannot easily listen for other stations trying to transmit, leading to collisions. Again, not the end of the world, but the consequence is increased packet collisions and retries.

(5) Social: Other repeater users will hate you. That brrrrrap of a 1200 baud packet is really annoying and its a great way to loose friends and gain enemies!

Best wishes,

Jim, KA7EHK

Tangent, OR

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[David Dobbins]

I concur with Jim's comments. 

I do remember an initiative quite a few years ago that involved including an APRS data burst at the beginning of a voice transmission on a repeater. I can't remember if it was a radio mod, but think maybe it was a small circuit board in between the mic and radio that took a GPS input. When the mic was keyed, whatever data that was being stored in the string at the time (user callsign and ssid, icon, other data, and GPS data) would be sent at the beginning of the transmission. At the repeater site, a TNC listened for the packets, in this case properly formatted APRS packet, then sent those over to the APRS digi on 144.39 and eventually the APRS-IS. I'm sure I had one of these, but it never really caught on. 

I don't recall any discussion about using a repeater for packet signals, other than in satellites.

David K7GPS

Montana

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[Herb Gerhardt]

Jim,

 

I have never heard of anyone trying to do packet on a voice repeater.  It looks like your understanding of packet below is like mine, so if someone is doing packet on a voice repeater, I would presume he is not intending to do that.  I would suggest that if you have such a station, you contact it and explain the situation to them.

 

 

Herb, KB7UVC

NW APRS Group, West Sound Coordinator

Our WEB Site:  http://blog.nwaprs.info/

 

 

 

From: 'James Wagner' via NWAPRS [mailto:nwa...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:45 AM
To: nwa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [nwaprs] Using packet over voice repeaters

 

Hello, Jeff -

 

Since nobody has answered yet, there are a couple of issues related to packet over voice repeaters:

 

(1) Technical: The common repeater "tail" really slows things down.

 

(2) Technical: A PL tone has to be supplied by the transmitter. Some transceivers may not do that in data mode.

 

(3) Technical: A packet repeater does error checking and handshaking. It will not resend a packet with errors. You don't have this capability in a voice repeater. Its not the end of the world but, depending on signal qualities, it can lead to an increase in the number of packets flying around on the frequency. 

 

(4) Technical: Packet is normally used in simplex mode, with transmit and receive at the same frequency. With a repeater offset, you cannot easily listen for other stations trying to transmit, leading to collisions. Again, not the end of the world, but the consequence is increased packet collisions and retries.

 

(5) Social: Other repeater users will hate you. That brrrrrap of a 1200 baud packet is really annoying and its a great way to loose friends and gain enemies!

 

Best wishes,

Jim, KA7EHK

Tangent, OR

 

On Wednesday, May 20, 2020, 06:32:37 PM PDT, KE7ACY - Jeff <tnetc...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

Anyone have any insight into operating packet over a voice repeater?

 

Seems to me that has some issues to it, but I am unable to recall what they might be!

 

I haven't been using packet for anything other than APRS for a while now so I have forgotten what issues there may be with this.

 

 

Thanks and 7  3

 

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY

Central Oregon

 

.

[Jeff Moore]

Thanks everyone for your input.   I have several new to packet hams in my area that are wanting to experiment with this and I wanted a better idea of what's involved and what the issues are.  This is a good start!

If anyone has anything further to add, I'd definitely be interested in hearing about it.

Thanks and 7  3

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY

Bend, Oregon

CN94

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[James Wagner]

Hell, Jeff -

If anyone has a Kantronics TNC, have them set it up as a KaNode in the 2M packet sub-band. Around Bend, you should not have much competition. It would help if the KaNode were at a higher location and the OP left it (and the radio) on. Now, you can see what a minimum capability node will do and how you can chat, and use it as a digipeater in addition to a node. Turning on a mailbox in the same machine now gives you a very rudimentary BBS. 

That should give everyone something to chew on for a while. Next step might be a G8BPQ node/bbs/chat on a Raspberry Pi, if someone has the inclination. TNC boards for the Pi are pretty cheap and the software is ready to go (and has an outstanding support list that includes the author).

By the way, I think that I have a PDF copy of my now ancient packet manual. It tells you all about the basics, up to but not including APRS.

Jim, KA7EHK

Tangent, OR

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[Jeff Moore]

Hi Jim,

I actually have a number of nodes within radio range here already.  What I have is several fairly new hams that are playing around with soundcard modems and they are wanting to try packet over one of our local repeaters.  Since they already have permission to do so - I want to give them fairly accurate info to do so.   We already have a local BPG digi/node/bbs (at least one) and possibly several more - I'm not real active on packet preferring hardware-based solutions.   I never got around to interfacing a computer with my D710A so all I really do with packet is APRS and Satellite packet.

I'd be interested in the Packet manual you mentioned, I'd be more than happy to make it available to my group members.  THX!!

7  3

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY

CN94

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