I'm reading that Craig uses moral value and moral judgement interchangeably.
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:55:49 -0700
> Von: "Conal Elliott" <co...@conal.net>
> An: nvc-e...@googlegroups.com
> Betreff: Re: On abortion and moral intuition
> "Moral value"? What's an example of a moral value that's not a moral> > ...One of the beauties of
> judgment?
>
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Craig Sones Cornell <
> st...@craigsonescornell.com> wrote:
> > the NVC approach is that it does not speak to moral values (not moral
> > judgments) and leave a lot of freedom to explore.
What I was intending is that our moral judgments are or can be
separate from judgmentalism. NVC seems to have this as a basic
foundation which I really resonate with.
Hi Conal, this is Craig:
I did not express myself as clearly as I would have liked to have.
What I was intending is that our moral judgments are or can be
separate from judgmentalism. NVC seems to have this as a basic
foundation which I really resonate with.
On Sep 30, 6:55 pm, "Conal Elliott" <co...@conal.net> wrote:
> "Moral value"? What's an example of a moral value that's not a moral
> judgment?
>
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Craig Sones Cornell wrote:
>
> > Hi Niklas, this is Craig:
>
> > Your post on relative moral decision making realy stimulated and moved
> > me. It has added a clarity that I lacked about how to defend a pro-
> > choice position. I am still pondering how to integrate it with NVC,
> > but maybe it is not really part of NVC exactly. One of the beauties of
> > the NVC approach is that it does not speak to moral values (not moral
> > judgments) and leave a lot of freedom to explore.
>[...]
>
> > All the best, Craig.
For example, if I say that abortion is wrong, what do I mean? Do I mean that somebody whose opinion is important to me (because he or she leads a group I belong to) doesn't find it desirable, and therefore I take over his or her position, in order to be incluced in the group? Do I mean that I see serious consequences of abortion that I'd like people to be protected from? Do I mean that I see the fetus as a sentient being and I'd like to preserve its life, because I see myself connected to it?
You see, every moralistic judgement has a context. And if that context is omitted, it's very hard to see, how the judgement serves life, because the circumstances, under which it would be clear that it does, are not mentioned.
Incidently, I heard Marshall empasizing that judgements are very important, because we need to be able to choose the consequences that we want. And I agree. They are the power of discernment. Only the moralistic type tends not to help to connect, but leaves a lot of information out that is necessary for connection.
By the way, Conal, I'm wondering whether you have it on your mind, that moralistic judgements are wrong and bad. The way I see you looking for it triggers some discomfort in me from time to time and I understand, that this is related to my values of openness, curiosity and empathy, that I'd like to stay in touch with. I wonder if you are. Would you tell me, what comes up for you?
Curiosly
Niklas
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It is hard to have a core value that does not lead to
judgment is it not? The Christians express this as love the sinner,
hate the sin.
I have two stuffed animals, a giraffe and a jackal .
As a motif for my practice group, I have the giraffe kissing the jackal.
J
Some possibilities...
Moral judgments are tied to a story that someone deserves to be
rewarded or punished, whereas value judgments are tied to identifying
what one longs for.
Moral judgments are tied to a story that there is an absolute truth,
outside of oneself, as to whether something is desirable or not. Value
judgments are owned as reflecting what we ourselves value, though they
may come with a story that the value is "universal" and so on some
level likely to be valued by all.
Thoughts?
Bob
What do folks think is the difference between a moral judgment and a value judgment?
... moralistic thinking cloaked in judgment.
When I hear statements like "XYZ doesn't meet my need for honesty", I generally suspect moralistic thinking cloaked in NVC language.